The downside of windmills

Thanks M. Spector -- the whole "wind farms kills birds" thing is definitely blown out of proportion when you look at the relative affects of the other industries. 

What sort of sickness, Bubbles?

well, there was one elderly woman that lives near the clear creek windfarm. She is experiencing hearing loss, she said it feels like having her ears full of cotton balls. Her hearing recovers when she leaves the area, but it takes longer and longer to recover. She also has chest pains, which was initialy thought to be heart problems but no heart problems where found. She had more problems but do not recall what they were. Sleep deprivation seems to be a big problem also. It all might have something to do with low frequency vibration that those mill emit.

It does happen.  Just because the bird doesn't drop dead immediately after impact doesn't mean it won't die later with broken bones.

I believe they give you wind.

Just imagine how much worse it was after they turned it on!!

I am not sure if we solve anything by making light of these peoples problems with windmills or cell towers. I am convinced that for them the problem is very real. And that it is something we will have to deal with.

Some are afraid of hights, others of spiders, open spaces, small spaces, buttons, flighing, etc,etc. I have seen people get violently ill from blood and gore, motion sickness. These are very unpleasant experiences to the people involved and literaly make them sick. Pharmaceuticals might block some of these experiences, but as far as I know provide no cure. I am not sure if they could be psychosomatic ilnesses, by that I mean illnesses that have an origine in the mind, what ever that is. If these real reactions have the origine in the mind then some of these illnesses might have a cultural component, since culture shapes so much of our mind.

Think 200 metres. 

A friend has built a home made windmill to generate electricity -- very inspiring.  I want to build and install a windmill for power generation for our home.  I am sure there are some downsides:  cost, time, safety concerns.  The upsides: return on investment, possibly not having to pay a hydro bill, ever again.  Not contributing to the wellfare of large corporations.  Being a role model for others -- showing that things like this are possible.

Any chance they (windmills) can be modified to emit frequencies that will drive squirrels away? I so totally promise not to be NIMBY about them if they can guarantee that.

Just get a few cats, they will not catch all, but certainly will keep the numbers down to tolerable levels. It is probably cheaper then see your property value go bown by 30 percent or so, when one of these 460ft structures grace your back yard. Also when the windmill operator goes bankrupt you will not get stuck with a lean against your property, as some farmers have had the pleasure of experiencing.

I'm sure it does happen.  But 10 times a year for each house?  I've never actually seen a bird hit a window.  Ever.

Maybe it's an average. One house I lived in birds would fly into one particular window frequently. Most would just be stunned and eventually fly away, a few I actually picked up and set in small box on the deck where they either recovered or died. Occasionally one would hit hard enough to leave feathers behind. We finally got some window stickers that looked like spider webs and they stopped.

After reading this, I'm thinking it's more of an educated guess.

Reefer, possibly it just is an educated guess. I'm not sure if it really matters that much to the overall argument. The stats on cats are likely more accurate but particularly telling is the report that M. Spector posted which looked at bird kills related to other forms of energy production. Yes wind turbines kill birds but relative to a whole lot of other human related activity they pale in comparison.

The numbers on bats are even more difficult to get a handle on. I went to talk given by a bat biologist who said that they suspect that they do kill bats but getting exact figures and even studying it is very difficult due to the nature of bats themselves. Of way more concern is the mystery fungus that's ravaging bat colonies as we speak, is spreading geographically each year and is pushing some colonies numbers to extinction levels. To use the word decimation and total destruction to describe whats happening is not hyperbole. If they don't get an handle on what's causing it and figure out if there are human caused reasons for this and/or figure out if there's anything that can be done to stop it then in many areas there just won't be a whole lot of bats to hit or be killed by anything.

I do think the potential health affects are an aspect that warrants some serious study and don't think it's something that should be just dismissed as some sort anti-windfarm nimbyism. Whatever the reasons there is something going on. I know a few people who have developed some of the health problems that the articles talked about and they aren't the type of people to just make stuff up and neither were they against the turbines when they went up. My parents live within the shadows of a recently built windfarm and my father did develop heart problems last year. Though neither of us are blaming the turbines for it as there are likely other factors involved it is difficult to completely dismiss it as some sort of woo when some of your neighbors start complaining of similar ailments or similar symptoms are being reported from other places. There is enough I think to at least place some serious consideration on the possibility.

My Dad is someone who is likely to correlate the cause of his problems with anything but the turbines as overall they both have no problems with them and are supportive of building them. They were one of the first households to say they were fine with it when the proposal was first put out. Most of the people in that area were and that project in particular went up with very little conflict from the residents. I personally hope there isn't any correlation either. I do have some concern about it though because from a completely personal viewpoint if there is indeed some sort of provable connections then it will devastate my family. What it means is that a five generation family home becomes virtually unlivable as I expect that if it comes to and either or situation that metal will win over flesh.

[major thread drift]

Are they (the seeds) available in a version that will poison the damn rodents but leave the birds unharmed? If the damn rodents would actually eat what they are damaging I wouldn't hate them as much. I have nothing against birds. I have nothing against rodents per se, just damn squirrels who uproot and damage everything in the garden with no intetion of actually eating any of it. And please, no helpful advice on how to "discourage" them - tried most, they don't work... I am quite satisfied they (squirrels) are not endangered, and am more than willing to accept the karmic burden of wishing them dead. Actually, I am quite willing to accept the karmic burden of actually making them dead... but use of a pellet gun is not legal within the city limits, and I do not want to use an indiscriminate measure that might harm any other creature.

[If someone had a semi-domesticated predator like a pine marten I could rent.... well you get the idea]

[/major thread drift]

I think that they should build the wind towers on the tops of buildings in the cities. It would obviously require more structural support but it would remove a lot of transmission lines from the equation.  I think engineers could work out any bugs and then the power would be near where its needed and not in any ones sight lines.

Three, 40-metre long blades whirling in a stiff wind would still be distracting, k. Hair raising, actually.

bk, I have found the long-haired rodents will leave other things be if they have sunflower seeds. A couple of blacks and a gray have grown to a mob of 4 blacks and three grays in the month I have been feeding, so far (word gets around). I feed them probably a quarter-found of seed on the ground, each day, along with white millet for the hard-working, underrated house sparrows and fat doves(the American tree sparrows,  and juncos et al will come later with the snow, hereabouts).

Two feeders are kept full of the black sunflower seeds, and they are off limits to the squirrels...ostensibly.  But there is always a squirrely squirrel that wants to cheat, and has to be persuaded. For a couple of winters i've left the screen off an upstairs bedroom window that can be quietly opened to accommodate a slingshot loaded with BBs. The bluejays (smart birds) knew this was mostly bluff, so I had to invest in a "Daisy" BB gun (had one as a lad).  I do not aim to harm, but am still a damned good shot at 50 feet and can bounce the BB off the ground in front of them. It travels slowly enough so you can follow the flight of the BB.  Haven't seen a bluejay in two weeks now (but I'm sure they are bullying the birds at another feeder in the subdivision).  You too can regain control of your garden.  :)

I saw a so-called community meeting was organized in Woodstock, Ontario. When I googled the organizers? Nuclear associations. I once attended a public consultation meeting organized by the province on energy choices and the pro-nukes crowd were out in force and well organized. Take a grain of salt with your wind horror stories.

That would be a vertical  mounting, spinning on vertically oriented bearings, TP.  They did not have must luck with them in earlier trials (their advantage would be not taking up much space) but the bearings broke down from so much weight on them. Hence the horizontal mountings we see).  Putting todays turbines on a roof would require a wind-vane mounting that turned according to wind direction, and that would require enormous supports for roof and the entire structure. Can't see it taking off (architecturally speaking).

Whoops. The Globe's international businesstoday features the Pearl River Tower, a monstrous 70 story building rising in Gangzhou that is "slated to become one of the world's most energy-efficient office buildings." 

"Two floors of the tower will have wind turbines built inside; the building is designed to funnel the prevailing winds in through openings in its walls to keep the turbines running."   When the wind blows, one assumes. And one Qin Youguo, profesor in the school of architecture at Beijing's Tsinghua University, says "being green here means the technology helps people in harmony with nature in a low-energy and sustainable way." And "What works as green technology in another country may not be green in China if it doesn't fit the situation here."  He criticizes many of the projects so far as, in the words of the Globe's correspondent, "showpieces with little real impact."

We'll see, I guess.

How many watts does it give you, Boomer?  Something beyond lighting and a TV (old, not flat screen)?  Does the price include batteries (for when all is calm, outside)?

Solution for all: build the biggest, tallest, damn wind turbine money can buy for your backyard. Move away when you start it up so there is no chance of developing a psychosomatic illness, let the wildlife adapt and take over your former digs. Everyone gets what they need. Finally, lobby the Provincial Government to legalize slingshot hunting in cities, and Tommy_Paine can practice up for the next strike when there are windows that need "opening"...

I see no reason for the Honeywell home windmill turbine to cost $5000. +/-  other than pure profit motive. I predict in a year or two, after making exorbitant profit on this thing, and with competition making similar (generic) units,  the price will come down by anywhere from one-third to one-half, thus making the unit much more attractive to eco-minded homeowners. I know if the price can be reduced to about $1,000 total, I'll be interested in one myself, to drive small appliances or the computer and television, when the hydro goes off, as it frequently does here.  I'd rather have electricity generated (and stored) by my own small turbine windmill than use the noisy and polluting gas-powered generators common here on the coast during power outages.

I think that for Ontario air the biggest bang for a regulatory buck would be to require all air conditioners to be sold with solar panels.  Seems to me if it is searing hot and sunny why not be limited to only the power of the sun to cool your house.  For most homes I am sure there are solar panel products on the market that would generate enough solar energy to help cool houses. No more demand spike during heat waves and trying to fire up obsolete electrical plants to meet the demand. 

I hate using gas power generators when the power goes off - the noise, pollution, and having to be around in case it runs out of fuel. And I hate storing gas in my garage. And, my small generator developed a gas leak, it'll probably cost more to get it faixed than to but a new one, so it's just being used as a outside doorstop for now. (I can't find the source of the leak so it's not going to be an easy fix) Meanwhile, I emptied the gas container into my truck, too much risk in keeping it inside the garage.

There's a whole bunch of online reviews of it, but basically it's a six foot wide turbine which generates 1,580 Kwh. It'd take forever to pay  for itself in energy savings, but I think it'd be great for here where the hydro goes off often. You'd need quite a few of these wind turbines to get off the grid completely, I would think.

Cost savings are kind of relative.   It's probably not at all cost effective for me to have a few, given wind in the city and already being hooked up to a very reliable source.   But, if you are out in the bush, and looking at the cost of your hydro provider hooking you up, all of a sudden they look very cost effective, I should think.

Not to mention if you were to use them to power a grow op, instead of leaving a tell tale electricity signature on the grid.

As My Cat Knows Better hit on, I think the real key is doing conservation first, bringing down the amount of power you really need to run your abode, then looking for alternatives.

Talking to a few people who have tried this and that, I think solar panels are still a ways away from being cost effective for anyone.   I think, however, that solar power through heat is right now effective.   There's a few mega projects in dessert places that use mirrors to focus heat radiation on pipes filled with oil, which is then used to boil water. and then turn a turbine.    They seem outrageously expensive for what is an assembly of trailing edge technology, but perhaps that's because the R&D costs haven't been amortized, and appear all at once.   

Seems to me such systems might provide, if not individual solutions, perhaps local municiple solutions to peak power demands due to air conditioning and the like.

If windmills should be outlawed because each one kills less than 4 birds per then I guess picture windows would also have to be banned because one house with a picture window kills 10 birds per year.

How many animals are killed due to the tarsands industry? 

Don't get me wrong - I am not indifferent to the unneccessary death of any animals however it seems to me that the petrolium industry will do everything possible to expose and blow out of proportion any detriments of their competition.