Should You Stop Eating Salmon?
http://thetyee.ca/News/2009/01/13/EatingSalmon/
"yes says a top UBC scientist...The iconic wild salmon of the Pacific Northwest is facing total extinction"
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Seems no one cares about this here actually. I posted a thread about Morton's call to action about 2 weeks ago and not 1 response, not even from alleged Green Party supporters.
Saw the Mortin piece - as for lack of response - add it to the pile. Same for alleged Greens et al. Very depressing state of affairs..
Yep,
To the extent that wild salmon collapse in the Pacific Northwest and coastal BC is due to warmer water, there is nothing that can be done about it, as water temperatures will continue to rise for the foreseeable future. On the other hand, we can address the other factors that are contributing such as open-cage aquaculture and forestry practices. A few Marine Protected Areas wouldn't hurt either. However, time is short.
Biologist Alexandra Morton's site for those interested in more info on the collapse of the wild salmon is:
http://www.raincoastresearch.org/about.htm
What can be done?
Link to initial thread with no responses:
http://rabble.ca/babble/western-provinces/morton-calls-upon-bcers-save-s...
Link to Tyee article call to action by Morton
http://thetyee.ca/News/2009/06/30/MortonsCry/
On the CBC tonight there was also a portion of a program on fishing, that indicates how the Exxon spill is still impacting fish species on the Pacific west coast.
Apples what could have been done wasn't done in May and it is now most likely going to be too late for anything much to be done. BCers would have to mobilize en masse, and as you can see it isn't going to happen, if here is any example.
In fac,t it is a win win, for eco-capitalists, and coporate rapers, if there are no salmon to spawn, they do not have to fight environmentalists over the planned damming of major spawning rivers and off shore drilling.
Whose Ocean? Whose Wild Salmon?
http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/whose-ocean-whose-wild-salmon/
"Do people hold the power? If so then why do capitalists, corporations and their shareholders grab ever more of the wealth that used to belong to the people? Why do the forests, resources, ocean and the wildlife become commodified or controlled by corporations?"
no question at all in my mind
Aboriginal fish racks are empty, commercial boats worth millions of dollars are tied to the docks and sport anglers are being told to release any sockeye they catch while fishing for still healthy runs of Chinook.
Between 10.6 million and 13 million sockeye were expected to return to the Fraser this summer. But the official count is now just 1.7 million, according to the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.
It's a catastrophe
If you would like my opinion, it is deliberate. If you examine the policies of successive BC and Federal governments there is an alarming trend to neglecting wild fisheries while supporting, even to a criminal degree, farmed fishing. Meanwhile, there are those in industry and industry supported science who argue more food can be generated not from preserving wild fish and fish habitat but through aqua-culture. And when you watch shoppers in grocery stores, they really don't care where the fish came from or the impact of on the wild fisheries.
The truth of the matter is that people don't care. They say they care, and in their own minds they do, but only as much as they care about any other fleeting issue of ecology that may intrude into their consciousness in between the trivialties of modern consumer lving.
But for the investor class, another wild and potentially free food source --a competitor-- is removed from the market and more of us become dependent on the investor class for our very sustenance.
I agree with you FM, for the most part. I believe it is criminal like behaviour, farm fish are destroying the wild stocks, while the farms themselves are a huge source of pollution on the west coast. And it is very interesting that you indicate cutting off wild food supplies inf avour of corporate controlled ones. It is an extremely valid point that should not be over-looked. In fact, one wonders if a move to block people from BC rivers and lakes through privatization and other denial to crown land schemes is in the same vein. A win win scenario, so to speak.
However, in BC lots of people care and have for a long time. Unfortunately, EMay's having a wild salmon omelette, while decrying farm fish, was a mistake and extremely disturbing.
In particular this lack of sockeye, is going to affect First Nations the most, as they will have no food fish to carry them through. One wonders what the Coho run is going to be like.
After reading Al Gore's Earth in the Balance, the very first electronic mailing I sent was to the (then) vice-president of the United States, urging him to halt the international squabbling over commercial fishing rights and legislate conservation before the salmon passed into history.
Still waiting for a reply.
Everywhere that introduced species have gone, havoc has been caused. Much of this is because of diseases they brought with them. It happened with people, with sheep and cattle, (bighorn goats, etc struggle against bovine introduced diseases), with birds and mammals and reptiles.
The science of this is not well nkown to the general public but it is not in dispute in scientific circles. So if you have farmed atlantic salmon, you WILL have distructtion of wild salmon with all the new diseases and pests.
It is inevitable. Now, about survival of wild salmon in the ocean. Non commercial pleasure fishermen with their private boats from victoria have had a FANTASTIC season up around the north and west of van island catching salmon. (I know nothing about which species they catch)
Could it be that all the modern technical gismos are making these people a lot more better at catching the wild fish, too?
I agree with the posters who believe that the governments provincially and federally are trying to kill off the wild salmon. They get too much money from the fish farms. Plus there is always a lingering, kill the salmon, starve the natives attitude.
This attitude may be partly behind the canadian governments and Campbells governments lack of effort to combat the coming swine flu pandemic. (Natives are more succeptable).
The whole no tax on "indian" cigarettes situation is proof positive that the canadian government has a policy of addicting native populations and killing them off with lung cancer.
Thats my view anyway.
Perhaps you should resend it? He may not have got it.
After reading Al Gore's Earth in the Balance, the very first electronic mailing I sent was to the (then) vice-president of the United States, urging him to halt the international squabbling over commercial fishing rights and legislate conservation before the salmon passed into history.
Still waiting for a reply.
The Chinook run has been good and sports fishers love them, got something to do with size maybe?
Not sure how it is measuring up to predictions/expectations though.
Chinook may take up to 7 years to spawn instead of the usual 4 for most salmon, so their numbers may appear to fluctuate in the additional 1-3 years it may take them to get around to spawning.
"Perhaps you should resend it? He may not have got it."
That, too, is probably an Inconvenient Truth
Calls Grow for Summit on Collapse of Fraser Sockeye Run
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/calls-grow-for-summit-on-co...
Are sport or recreational fishers a big part of the problem? It would seem habitat loss and assorted industrial problems would be to blame here.
I didn't know the situation was so dire. Thanks for the remind remind.
Everything is part of the problem. Sports fishers catches are basically unlimited, 100's, if not thousands, even come up from the USA and spend the whole season fishing and canning their catch to take back. Then we have the 10's of thousands of Canadian sport fishers out there too.
And then we have Jimmy Pattison's net trawlers out there, scooping everything in their wake, and the rest of the commerical fishing fleet. plus the American fishing fleet getting them before they hit Canadian waters, along with the Japanese fishing fleet.
If they survive these challenges, they then get hit with sea lice, warm waters, and pollution in the ocean and then again are impacted by industrtial and farm pollution in the lower Fraser.
All marine life is still being impacted from the Exxon spill too.
Here is Alexandra Morton's other site
http://www.adopt-a-fry.org/
There is a link on the first page to sign a letter she has written demanding the Fisheries Act be applied to fish "farms"
Thanks well well well, I have signed the letter too, and left some ideas.
Probably the last lake trout caught (1918) in the Kawartha Lakes' region's Stony Lake, is mounted proudly on a cabin wall.
"And so it goes." (Vonnegut)
bump for actioning the letter
The premier of B.C. got an email.
For some reason, my fingers froze over the keyboard in the act of contacting Steve. Had to shut things down with my foot.
LOL george
call out to action by Morton
Vancouver filmmaker Damien Gillis is showing this film in Norway asking them to stop killing our salmon.
http://in.sys-con.com/node/1073790
When I was in Norway last spring it was clear that Norway has no idea how Canadians and Americans feel about their industry. With our top Fisheries representative telling Norwegian fish farmers that Canada is open for business, this is not surprising. There are 10,000 emails on this list. If you want to set the record straight yourself - here are the people in Norway to contact:
The royal palace of Norway: post@slottet.no
The Norwegian Fisheries Minister, Helga Pedersen: helga.pedersen@fkd.dep.no
The Norwegian Prime Minister's: postmottak@smk.dep.no
Pure Salmon: lkaran@pewtrusts.org
Canadian Minister of Fisheries:
I found this thread during an unrelated web search and feel driven to answer some of the abject nonsense posted here:To Whit
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nonsense-DFO/FOC knows how many fish are taken they have people doing counts/interviewing anglers at almost every marina and public dock in BC-Sportfishing lodges also keep exhaustive records of every fish killed and are required by law to send the info to DFO/FOC.
In addition no one and I mean no one has done any canning in any place other than their principal residence for many years now-that was made unlawful long long ago.
Did you know that sport fishing licences sold in the province have dropped from a high of over 400,00 in the mid 80's to less than 200,000 today-online sales mean it's easier than ever to keep track of the effort.
While it's true that Alaskans get first crack at some runs it's also true that changing migration patterns and ocean conditions mean Alaskan catches-apart from some runs like Bristol Bay-have been mediocre for some years now.
The seine fleet is now idle-no Sockeye remember?
There's a few hour opening this week off Esperanza to cash in on the Chinook abundance but once so many 'pieces' are caught that's it.
Did you know that Commercial Fishing is Always Closed unless there's a specified Opening?
They can't just fish @ will they need supervised openings to work-whether or not these are enough/too much all depends on who's ox is being gored of course.
There is no Japanese fleet targetting eastern Pacific Salmon stocks-look @ a map-who is going to travel thousands of miles to catch fish worth a few thousand dollars?
That is somewhat true but if ocean survival conditions are optimal fish will return to spawn in any stream or ditch you can name.
Maybe in/around Valdez but that's nowhere near where any BC stocks go-not even close.
"That is somewhat true but if ocean survival conditions are optimal fish will return to spawn in any stream or ditch you can name."
And of course survive in any stream or ditch. It's the ocean that's killing them fish, not the humans and their God-given right to lay waste to everything.
"Nonsense-DFO/FOC knows how many fish are taken they have people doing counts/interviewing anglers at almost every marina and public dock in BC-Sportfishing lodges also keep exhaustive records of every fish killed and are required by law to send the info to DFO/FOC."
So what, on average, annually, is the sports fisherman take?
Sam Salmon
There are about 100,000 sports fishing licenses that are purchased from outside of BC, and they are trying to increase these amounts even. Will look for the link I was reading.
There are over 250,000 sports fishing licenses sold from with in BC, and I was even low balling when I said 10's of thousands are sports fishing. And if you think those who are canning their catches are going to fishing lodges, you are mistaken, moreover they get around the primary residence requirements by claiming they live in their motor homes and 5th wheels. I have been there and viewed it for myself, in many out of the way places on VIsland. And actually in not so out of the way places too. People do not bite the hands that feed them.
If there is no fish to return they can't spawn in any ditch or stream, now can they?
"The elders have been telling me for a long time that over-fishing while the sockeye are at sea and are mixed in with other species being caught is gradually extracting the genetically stronger fish among the sockeye from the returning runs, and this has been happening for the past 100 years," he says.
As a result, Crey explains, the strength and hardiness of the average sockeye to survive its return trip up the Fraser to spawn has slowly diminished.
That means a higher percentage of fewer sockeye now succumb to temperature, water-flow fluctuations and other risks in the river.
As for the Japanese fishing fleet, it is absolutely correct, though they are more under control now, than they were 20 years ago and it was 40 years ago only, that agreements were put in place. One need only google Japanese fishing fleets drift netting salmon on the high seas to see for themselves. Here is an example of what they will find.
Japanese Salmon Fleet
During the course of the annual high seas salmon operation, the Japanese target immature chinook salmon - the highest valued marine form of salmon. Although take of kings is limited by both Soviet and Although take of kings is limited by both Soviet and U.S. agreements with Japan, the lack of significant observer coverage by these states opens a window of opportunity for large Japanese catches of this threatened species so vital to the Yup'ik Eskimo.
Unregulated mixed stock salmon fishing on the high seas historically resulted in spawning crises. Because king salmon reach maturity last, and are the smallest in population among the pacific salmon, kinds are most susceptible to overharvest, and population crashes. For this reason, the U.S., Russia, and Canada have deliberately sought to reduce Japanese ocean fishing of salmon stocks, especially kings.
In respect to the Exxon spill, I guess it must me my imagination then, when I go to beaches on the west coast of VIsland, that were impacted by the spill, that I see oil residue still in the sand.
“Allowing more oil tankers in northern coastal waters is a disaster waiting to happen.”
In addition to banning tankers, immediate steps must be taken to improve shipping accident response capabilities and strengthen shipping regulations. For motivation we need look no farther than the loaded fuel truck in Robson Bight, oil leaking from the sunken Queen of the North, and the Squamish Estuary which is still covered in Bunker C fuel oil from the Westwood Anette.
http://www.livingoceans.org/media/news03200901.aspx
Here is a link to an article about fishing licenses in BC, though it is not the one I had read prior.
Tourism BC representative Jacqueline Simpson said sport fishing represents one of the tourism marketing agency's "big five" activities that draw international visitors to B.C. -
Hey, Sam Salmon, welcome to babble, always glad to hear a new perspective, but you might consider being a little more diplomatic than to call other people's offerings to the forum "abject nonsense". Thanks!
Sam is probably off somewhere else, swimming upstream with his "nothing's really at fault, must be an act of God" analysis.
Well george people think 40 years is a long time, but it is not, it is only 10 spawning cycles, and they never got real about it, until 20 years ago, which is only 5 spawning cycles and drift netting still goes on, on the pacific north high seas, with other nations not mentioned here too.
And when you have upwards of close to 300,000 sports fishers, who catch their limit each day, that is a whack load of spawning fish. And depending on type, the daily limit is anywhere from 2-4 fish per day, per person.
Statistics for Tidal Water Sport Fishing Licences.
Daily Quotas for Individual SpeciesPeople come to BC, from March through Sept, and live here to fish, where they are living becomes their place of ordinary residence, after 3 months. Thus they can field can as much as they want, if they are here long enough.
All you need to know about fishing
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/F-14/SOR-96-137/index.html
Yes, those "sports fishers" have the same ethic as the Ontario Hunters and Anglers, who will quit duck hunting only with the demise of the last migrating bird.
Let's not be too hard on hunters. Many are serious conservationalists. In fact, it would be a shame if the yahoos who are more about the beer drinking in the bush managed to color the reputation of all hunters. Now sports fishers are another matter. Where I live the banks are littered with their trash. My feeling is if they won't clean up after themselves they probably could care less about the health of the fish population and the future of their sport.
In the spring summer and part of the fall, we have a sort of reverse snowbird thing going on, and it shows, as the industry is about 1.5 biillion dollars into BC's economy, from external to the province sport fishers.
And now they are trying to attract more, which is not a good thing under any environmental framework/lense.
Yes, I guess the hunters up here are not quite so bloody-minded as those in Louisiana, where they post pictures like "Johnny, with his first buck, age 8",
I agree about hunting, FM, people around here often get their licenses and limited entry tags, and do not bother hunting. They/we do it just to keep less hunters out there hunting for sport, not necessarily for subsistence. And friends meat share, as it is pretty damn difficult to eat a whole moose or elk over the course of the year, as well as having venison to eat, especially in a small family of 2.
And guide packers are serious conservantionalists too.
Sigh...
Unlike some here I have a job and business to run and a life no one pays me to sit @ desk all day posting on the net.
I'm aware of the Yupik complaints but there's little hard evidence that it's Japanese who are taking fish that may not even exist.
As to Chinook being the highest value-not even close Sockeye is the money fish-no Sushi Bar serves Chinook.
As to your other questions I'm not your googlebitch.
Oh and BTW-if a person sees oil on a Vancouver Island beach it's not from a 20 year old oil spill 600 miles away-it was dumped by ocean going freighters-happens every day.
They aren't allowed to empty their ballast tanks in port so they do it on the ocean when no one is around.
Also-sportfishermen wish they could catch their limit every day but the reality is that rarely happens.
Legally I'm allowed 30 Chinook Salmon per year which must be recorded on my license-the most I've ever killed is 6.
If some of you would lik to stretch your horizons a bit and not have to rely on what the usual suspects here post try looking up some of these issues on places like http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php and http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/
Two very differerent crowds friendly folks who'd be happy to help you educate yourselves as to the real issues as they see them.
Salmon Sam:
"Unlike some here I have a job and business to run and a life no one pays me to sit @ desk all day posting on the net."
Tragic spot to be in, Sam. Was there for many years.
I was saved from a life of continuing ignorance by retirement.
"Unlike some here I have a job and business to run and a life no one pays me to sit @ desk all day posting on the net."
Apparently someone pays you to post on the net. Here you are and at those forums you linked too, I assume.
"As to your other questions I'm not your googlebitch."
What would that be?
Meanwhile... sports fishers yesterday attacked the Chief of the Stolo, on the Fraser, by ramming his boat and shooting hm in the chin with a pellet rifle, after running into the FN's nets with their boat.
Yeah, such nice people.
Sam Salmon, you don't seem to be able to play with others well here. I wish you the best in finding a forum with people who are more to your liking. Unfortunately, that isn't this one. Bye.
Media and Public Advisory
The Wild Salmon Circle, a group of concerned citizens, is calling all supporters of wild salmon to a protest held in front of the Fisheries & Oceans Canada office in Vancouver.
Who: BC citizens who want to see open-net salmon farms taken off our coast permanently. We have invited conservation groups, First Nations, scientists, and fisheries stakeholders.
What: We will have Tum Tum the salmon appearing in costume, people to speak and answer questions, a petition and postcards.
Where: 401 Burrard - Burrard and Pender in Vancouver, in the square.
When: Thursday, August 20, 2009 at NOON.
Why: With this protest, we hope to increase local public awareness about the DFO presence at the Aqua Nor trade show in Norway, and Minister Gail Shea's hopes of essentially selling Canadian waters to global fish farm corporations.
Rationale: The Minister of Fisheries & Oceans is in Norway at the Aqua Nor conference to lay out the welcome mat for fish farms to populate the Atlantic and B.C. coast. Considering sea lice from fish farms on salmon migration routes are known to kill wild salmon, and these may have been at least partly responsible for the disastrously low sockeye returns this summer, we think this is an incredibly bad idea.
There are currently excellent people in Norway at the conference letting the Norwegians know that the people of British Columbia are not behind this plan. Gail Shea has been given a 16,000 signature petition against Norwegian fish farms, and a video was screened showing scientific evidence of high wild salmon mortality due to fish farm sea lice. Coverage of the Canadian protest was aired on prime-time Norwegian news.
Did anyone in Van go to this?
Call out for Minister Shea to resign.
16,000 people and counting have signed a letter to the Minister of Fisheries demanding that the laws of Canada, the Fisheries Act, be applied to salmon farms www.adopt-a-fry.org
http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/