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Daniel Tosh is a rape culture enforcer

Bacchus
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Joined: Dec 8 2003

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Bacchus
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Joined: Dec 8 2003

On a plus note, I just finished reading a fantasy novel that just came out:

The Hammer and the Blade / Paul S. Kemp

Which is well worth reading, if only for the last couple of chapters for a pro-feminist ending to a very traditional fritz leiber-like fantasy novel


Mr.Tea
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Joined: Jul 9 2011

From The Onion: "Daniel Tosh Chuckles Through Own Violent Rape"

http://www.theonion.com/articles/daniel-tosh-chuckles-through-own-violen...

Edited to add: Trigger Warning


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001

That's excellent satire, Mr. Tea, but for anyone about to click the link, perhaps an extreme trigger warning would be in order - there is graphic description of rape in that article.

But I also think it makes the point extremely well to those who might not understand why what Tosh said during that routine was so wrong.


Ken Burch
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Joined: Feb 26 2005

Mods...since Mr. Tea hasn't added the "trigger warning" that Michelle suggested, can you folks put it in?

(on edit)thanks for adding the warning, Mr. Tea.


Mr.Tea
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Joined: Jul 9 2011

I edited my post to add that. Thanks for hte feedback


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001

Anytime - thanks for the quick response!


MegB
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Joined: Nov 28 2001

This thread, by its very subject matter, is a trigger for some people.

I'd like to put the question out there: being sensitive and progressive people, how do we discuss topics that trigger terrible things for some people without shutting down discussion of the given issue.


Ken Burch
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Joined: Feb 26 2005

Perhaps you could have everybody send the posts they want to make to the mods as private messages, with the mods then determining if its going to be ok to put those posts in the thread.

 


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001

I think trigger warnings before anything explicit probably help with that.  I wasn't saying it shouldn't be posted, just that it should have a trigger warning.

My personal opinion is that there is a place for that kind of satire, even though it's triggering for some of us.  I know it falls along the same lines as ironic racism, sexism, etc.  For instance, in my early internet days, I loved Landover Baptist Church with their "BASH Ministries" (Baptists Are Saving Homosexuals) because it took the piss out of actual homophobic "ministries".  Yes, it probably would be triggering for people who were victimized by these kinds of organizations, but it's a good consciousness-raising tool for those who maybe haven't thought about the issue, or who think, "What's the big deal about xyz?" 

So I guess I would fall along the "discuss it fully, but try to be sensitive to those who have experience and possible PTSD-like issues around it, and put the explicit stuff behind or under trigger warnings."  But yes, the whole topic in general can be a trigger, I agree.  I think the thread title makes it clear what the thread is about, without saying anything explicit, and so people can decide whether they want to click on it and read the content in it.


Tommy_Paine
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Joined: Apr 22 2001

I read the Onion article and it does well to bring home exactly what Tosh did wrong.  

Another piece I read, and I think it was as salient but less visceral, was that Tosh didn't fire back with wit, he fired back with a threat of sexual violence against the woman. 

Since Vaudville and probably since the first person stood up to tell a joke or a story, comedians and story tellers have had to deal with hecklers.  And there's an art to doing it, to get the person to shut up in a way that entertains the audience at the same time.

Tosh revealed himself to be a rank amature in his craft, and as the topic above says, a rape culture enforcer.


Ken Burch
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Joined: Feb 26 2005

Scary thought...will somebody try to put Tosh and Michael Richards together on a "Main Offenders" comedy club tour?


laine lowe
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Joined: Dec 15 2006

Tommy_Paine wrote:

I read the Onion article and it does well to bring home exactly what Tosh did wrong.  

Another piece I read, and I think it was as salient but less visceral, was that Tosh didn't fire back with wit, he fired back with a threat of sexual violence against the woman. 

Since Vaudville and probably since the first person stood up to tell a joke or a story, comedians and story tellers have had to deal with hecklers.  And there's an art to doing it, to get the person to shut up in a way that entertains the audience at the same time.

Tosh revealed himself to be a rank amature in his craft, and as the topic above says, a rape culture enforcer.

THIS! I am not impressed by the number of his colleagues who vocalized their support for this offensive act. This is neither a matter of free speech or comedy, it was a threat that only served to reveal what a hateful person Tosh is.


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001

I also don't understand the excuse that he was simply dealing with a "heckler", which has apparently been the apologist meme that's been going around.  She wasn't heckling at all, according to this apologist for Tosh.  In this version of what happened (and this person weasels out of saying what Tosh actually said, claiming not to have "really heard it"), Tosh ASKED the audience what they want to talk about, and someone yelled out "rape".  And then the woman yelled out that she didn't want him to talk about rape.

If this is true, then that's not heckling.  He asked for audience input into what they wanted to talk about, and she gave it.  And then he chased her out of the room by suggesting that it would be funny if she was gang-raped right then and there by the guys in the room.


onlinediscountanvils
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Joined: Jun 7 2012

The Secrets Of The Internet's Most Beloved Viral Marketer

Quote:
Matthew Inman boasts that his site, The Oatmeal, has received over a billion page views since he launched it in 2009, making it one of most widely read comics in the world. But Inman bears little relation to his lumpy everyman profile on the site, and the disconnect between that cheerful profile and his actual identity — an edgy comic and unapologetic online operator — collided this week after a rape joke made its way into his typically safe comic.

In this comic, Inman described the role of different keys on the keyboard. F5, he said, was the "rape victim" of the group. "I MUST VIOLATE YOU OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN!" a rapist blob monster said to the F5 key as it ran away crying.

Quote:
His own fans quickly took him to task on The Oatmeal's Facebook page. "Really, in your awesomeness and creativity, you couldn't come up with something better than a rape 'joke'?" one asked. "I expected more from you."

At first Inman ignored the criticism, but by Tuesday, he felt enough heat to remove the panel with the rape joke. But he added a comment at the bottom complaining that comedians like himself are no longer allowed to say the word “rape.” Defensively, Inman said he’s previously “donated $1,000 of my own money to a battered women’s group.”

“To all those who complained: thank you for censoring me,” he wrote. “It worked.”

He had to walk that sneering response back, too, writing on Twitter that both the comic and the comment were “fucking stupid.” He finally said he was sorry, then quit Twitter for the day. The comic is no longer listed on his website's homepage, though it remains accessible with the last panel removed.


Catchfire
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Joined: Apr 16 2003

But he added a comment at the bottom complaining that comedians like himself are no longer allowed to say the word “rape.” 

Wow. What a scumbag.


ryanw
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Joined: May 24 2012

onlinediscountanvils wrote:

 Defensively, Inman said he’s previously “donated $1,000 of my own money to a battered women’s group.”

he obviously consulted with a 'binder full' of feminist comics before proceeding


Serviam6
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Joined: Nov 7 2012

I enjoyed the Tosh videos when I seen them.   After this crap I will no longer watch anything by him or listen to his work.


onlinediscountanvils
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Joined: Jun 7 2012

Patton Oswalt reflects on joke stealing, heckling, and (eventually) rape jokes

Patton Oswalt wrote:
[...]people only bring their own perceptions and experiences to bear when reacting to something?  And, since they’re speaking honestly from their experience, they truly think they’re correct?  Dismissive, even?  See if any of these sound familiar:

There’s no “evidence” of a “rape culture” in this country.  I’ve never wanted to rape anyone, so why am I being lumped in as the enemy?  If these bloggers and feminists make “rape jokes” taboo, or “rape” as a subject off-limits no matter what the approach, then it’ll just lead to more censorship.

They sure sound familiar to me because I, at various points, was saying them.  Either out loud, or to myself, or to other comedian and non-comedian friends when we would argue about this.  I had my viewpoint, and it was based on solid experience, and it…was…fucking…wrong.

Patton Oswalt wrote:
There is a collective consciousness that can detect the presence (and approach) of something good or bad, in society or the world, before any hard “evidence” exists.  It’s happening now with the concept of “rape culture.”  Which, by the way, isn’t a concept.  It’s a reality.  I’m just not the one who’s going to bring it into focus.  But I’ve read enough viewpoints, and spoken to enough of my female friends (comedians and non-comedians) to know it isn’t some vaporous hysteria, some false meme or convenient catch-phrase.

I’m a comedian.  I value and love what I do.  And I value and love the fact that this sort of furious debate is going on about the art form I’ve decided to spend my life pursuing.  If it wasn’t, it would mean all of the joke thief defenders and heckler supporters are right, that stand-up comedy is some low, disposable form of carnival distraction, a party trick anyone can do.  It’s obviously not.  This debate proves it.  And I don’t want to be on the side of the debate that only argues from its own limited experience.  And I don’t need the sense memory of an actor, or a degree from Columbia, or a moody, desert god to tell me that.

I’m a man.  I get to be wrong.  And I get to change.


Ken Burch
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Joined: Feb 26 2005

Patton Oswalt just moved way upwards in my estimation.

 


Catchfire
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Joined: Apr 16 2003

Thanks for that update, oda. And thanks for that change of heart, Patton.


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