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Gay pickup bar refuses to serve woman

Wade Tompkins
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Joined: May 29 2007
 

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Wade Tompkins
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Joined: May 29 2007
quote: May 30, 2007 01:01 PM
Canadian Press

MONTREAL – A woman who was turned away from a gay bar has filed a human rights complaint.

Audrey Vachon was recently refused service at Le Stud in Montreal's gay village after sitting down with her father for a quiet afternoon pint.

A waiter came over and told her father, Gilles, that the bar doesn't serve women.

What The Fuck! We are 2007, right?

The Star


N.Beltov
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Joined: May 25 2003
Whoopie shit. Read a little further.

quote:Bar owner Michel Gadoury says Le Stud has banned women most nights since it was established 11 years ago. He says he doesn't understand the fuss.

"We're not discriminating, women have the right to come on certain days," Gadoury told Radio-Canada.

So if this customer wins her case does that mean that I can crash ladies night in the local bars on "human rights" grounds?

What a spurious complaint. Didn't she notice the gay porn playing on the big screen??

quote:The bar, an understated spot in a flamboyant part of the city, has the trappings of a local pub with pool tables and video poker terminals.

On many nights it shows gay pornography on TV screens instead of the usual hockey game fare.

"Le Stud is the best place in town for a truly manly meat market," said a review on one travel website.

Good grief. Maybe dad was trying to tell her something.


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001
I'm against "Ladies' nights" too. I think it's wrong to charge a different cover charge (or refuse to admit people) based on gender.

As for "Ladies nights", don't get me started, but basically the reason they hold them isn't to do women any favours. The idea behind cheap drinks and free admission for women is to entice guys to the bar with promises of, well, lots and lots of half-drunk women.


N.Beltov
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Joined: May 25 2003
Sheesh. I guess I'd make a lousy chauvinist pig. I thought "ladies night" was intended to keep hosers like me away ... as in "ladies" only.

Stargazer
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Joined: Jun 9 2004
At gay bars you would probably be right but at straight bars ladies nights are indeed used to intice men.

And really, can a lesbian bar ban all men as well? Chances are - not.


Catchfire
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Joined: Apr 16 2003
What the hell is this supposed to mean?
quote:The bar, an understated spot in a flamboyant part of the city, has the trappings of a local pub with pool tables and video poker terminals.

On many nights it shows gay pornography on TV screens instead of the usual hockey game fare.


It's in the fucking village, not a "flamboyant part of the city." And the reason it doesn't have "the usual" sports on its tv is because the bar is called "Le STUD." Usual? Not for the village, assholes.

Michelle
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quote:Originally posted by N.Beltov:
Sheesh. I guess I'd make a lousy chauvinist pig. I thought "ladies night" was intended to keep hosers like me away ... as in "ladies" only.

Yes you would, bless your soul. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img] Nope, ladies' nights definitely aren't about keeping men out. They wouldn't make any money otherwise!

I've been to a couple of lesbian bars in Toronto, and they don't exclude men from the premises.


Scout
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Joined: Oct 17 2001
quote: A waiter came over and told her father, Gilles, that the bar doesn't serve women.

Vachon, 20, says the waiter avoided looking at her during the conversation.

This is the only part that really pisses me off. Is there some reason he couldn't speak directly to her and explain the policy? He chose to speak to the older man. That's a pisser alright.

The rest, well there are lots of other places to spend ones money and I'd sure like a place where "ladies night" meant no guys, sometimes would be nice to not be pestered. I can see it from both sides.

I am confused though if they have different days or nights though. I guess I am just used to most places being wide open during the day, like being able to take your kid to a pub for a meal during the day but not a night.


Wade Tompkins
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Joined: May 29 2007
Check this out

quote: Quebec bar owner fined for refusing black customers
Last Updated: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 | 9:28 PM ET
CBC News

A Montreal-area bar has been fined $25,000 for refusing to serve black customers.

Seydou Diallo said he was told Le Surf had a policy of 'no black people inside' when he tried to order a drink there in September 2003.

Seydou Diallo, one of the individuals refused at the bar, said he's still shocked by his treatment at Le Surf, which occurred three years ago.

Any fundamental difference between this and the gay bar? Even the bar names are similar.

CBC


Makwa
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Joined: Oct 20 2005
oopy

[ 30 May 2007: Message edited by: Makwa ]


Makwa
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Joined: Oct 20 2005
This is simply wrong. What if her dad was gay and wanted to have her visit his fave spot? This policy is wrong, and they deserve to be busted. NOBODY, as long as they are playing by the rules, deserves to be barred. Don't start by telling me about the history of 'preserving a culture' because Aboriginal people were barred from many estabishment out west for many years. This sickens me.

Makwa
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Joined: Oct 20 2005
oop

Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005
Women were barred (no pun intended) from "tavernes" throughout Quйbec until the 1970s.

Likewise for "beer parlours" in various provinces.

I'm no expert on the law, but I'm sure this establishment could achieve its aim by re-designing itself as a private club.

But if it is a commercial establishment open to the public, it has to serve women. Otherwise, it should be padlocked.


N.Beltov
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Joined: May 25 2003
Geez Wade, after that walloping that Michelle gave you upside the head for your incendiary and untruthful remark about the Janjaweed I would have thought that you wouldn't have the nerve to go on about the racism of others when you made such false claims yourself.

My mistake. Some posters are shameless. Are you a Conservative, by any chance?


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005
quote:Originally posted by Scout:

I am confused though if they have different days or nights though.

No confusion in this place:

quote:Men Only!

There are all kinds of them, but Le Stud is men’s only! Bears, chasers, S&M fetishists, sugar daddies, suit and tie types, regular guys in jeans: all have come to flirt, to be noticed, or to observe.


Catchfire
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Joined: Apr 16 2003
I should clarify that my concerns expressed in my above post were with the mealy mouthed journalist ("flamboyant" as code for "gay") and not at the woman's complaint. Serve the woman. I can see no justification not to.

Scout
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Joined: Oct 17 2001
quote: Bar owner Michel Gadoury says Le Stud has banned women most nights since it was established 11 years ago. He says he doesn't understand the fuss.

"We're not discriminating, women have the right to come on certain days," Gadoury told Radio-Canada.

This is why it's confusing Unionist, regardless of your link what the owner said in the article is confusing. Women can come some days or some nights.


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005
quote:Originally posted by Scout:

This is why it's confusing Unionist, regardless of your link what the owner said in the article is confusing. Women can come some days or some nights.

Even if that's true, the fact that they advertise themselves as "men only" is offensive, especially in the context of Quйbec. I remember women occupying tavernes in downtown Montrйal in the late 60s to protest against the men-only policy. At that time, only tavernes were licensed to serve draft beer - which meant that women couldn't buy draft anywhere in Quйbec!!

I recall (as if it were yesterday - sign of old age) that the very first establishment which admitted women and was licenced to serve draft was the Pink Peanut Pub at Expo in 1967. It was the pioneer of what became known as "brasseries", which were allowed to serve draft to both sexes, until this repugnant discrimination was finally ended once and for all.

ETA: Thread drift - this is the province where women were first allowed to serve on juries in 1970! Since then, with the passage of the Charte du Quйbec and many other such events, Quйbec marched right from the back to the front of the line on recognition of human rights and workers' rights in Canada, in a remarkably short period. We ain't going back!

[ 30 May 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]


Martha (but not...
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Joined: Mar 26 2006
quote:Originally posted by N.Beltov:
Geez Wade, ... My mistake. Some posters are shameless. Are you a Conservative, by any chance?

I am confused about what was allegedly wrong with Wade's post ...


Wade Tompkins
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Joined: May 29 2007
From today's Star

quote: Audrey Vachon, 20, said she has never felt singled out the way she was on that day."I've frequented other places in the Village ... and it's the first time I've ever come up against this kind of closed-mindedness. In fact, it's the first time I've ever felt discriminated against."


quote: "Here we are in a liberal country confronted by people who have used the charter of rights to assert their rights against discrimination, and who are now discriminating against others.

The Star


N.Beltov
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Joined: May 25 2003
quote:Martha (bnS): I am confused about what was allegedly wrong with Wade's post ...

Did you read the other thread? **

quote:Wade Tompkins: Maybe now we'll see some real progress against the Janjaweed barbarians in Sudan who rape and enslave the Blacks.

To which he received the reply:

quote:The Janjaweed are Black. But thanks for coming out.

After which he immediately added a "contribution" to this thread about a Montreal bar owner who was fined for refusing to serve a black customer.

To which I responded:

"I would have thought that you wouldn't have the nerve to go on about the racism of others when you made such false claims yourself."

Now do you understand? [Sarcastic comment removed.]
______________________________
** It would have been clearer if I noted "in the other thread". I thought it was implied.

[ 31 May 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]


Wade Tompkins
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Joined: May 29 2007
From the Globe and Mail

quote: Can minorities discriminate?
Montreal woman's complaint to the Human Rights Commission for being kicked out of gay bar stirs debate
INGRID PERITZ

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

May 31, 2007 at 4:44 AM EDT

MONTREAL — When she wandered past the flowery terrace of Bar Le Stud one afternoon last week, 20-year-old Audrey Vachon thought the sunny spot was the perfect place to enjoy a beer with her father.

What she failed to anticipate was that her presence violated the gay bar's male-only rule. She was turfed out by a waiter who said the bar was reserved for men - and promptly landed in the middle of a debate about whether it's okay for minorities to discriminate.

Ms. Vachon, who begins studying administration at junior college this year, filed a complaint with the Quebec Human Rights Commission, saying she'd been the victim of discrimination.

She invoked the same section of the provincial Charter that was created to defend the rights of homosexuals in 1977, when Quebec became the first jurisdiction in Canada to ban discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

"If I respect the rights of gays, then they should respect my rights, too," Ms. Vachon said in an interview yesterday.

Globe and Mail


Blondin
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Joined: Sep 22 2005
Kind of reminds me of this story:

quote: Gay pub wins right to ban straights

Yahoo News

Tue May 29, 10:16 AM ET

An Australian hotel catering for homosexuals has won the right to ban heterosexuals from its bars so as to provide a safe and comfortable venue for gay men.

In what is believed to be a first for Australia, the Victorian state civil and administrative tribunal ruled last week that the Peel Hotel in the southern city of Melbourne could exclude patrons based on their sexuality.

Australia's equal opportunity laws prevent people being discriminated against based on race, religion or sexuality.

But Peel Hotel owner Tom McFeely said the ruling was necessary to provide gay men with a non-threatening atmosphere to freely express their sexuality.

"If I can limit the number of heterosexuals entering the Peel, then that helps me keep the safe balance," Peel told Australian radio on Monday.

McFeely said that, while the hotel welcomed everyone, its gay clientele had expressed discomfort over the number of heterosexuals and lesbians coming to the venue in the past year.

He said there were more than 2,000 venues in Melbourne that catered to heterosexuals, but his hotel was the only one marketing itself predominantly to gay men.

Victoria's state human rights commission backed the ruling, saying it was in line with equal opportunity guidelines defending the rights of groups subject to discrimination.

Commission chief Helen Szoke said the hotel's gay clientele had experienced harassment and violence. "(They) also have felt as though they've been like a zoo exhibit with big groups of women on hens' parties coming to the club," Szoke told reporters.

McFeely told the radio that the hotel had received homophobic telephone calls since news of the ruling was made public.


Oh really, Mr McFeely?

I can sort of understand their desire to keep out the jerks who might show up just to bait or gawk but this seems like an overreaction. How can you be sure who's straight, anyway?


Martha (but not...
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Joined: Mar 26 2006
Martha: I am confused about what was allegedly wrong with Wade's post ...

Beltov: Did you read the other thread?

I understood that you had a problem with some post of Wade's in some other thread, but there seems to me nothing wrong with his post in this thread, i.e. the post to which you seemed to be responding.


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005
Is there a lawyer in the house?

If they make it a private club, not open to the public, surely they can ban men, women, Catholics, transgender, homophobes, socialists, disabled people - anyone they want - just as you can ban whomever you please from entering your home without being answerable to human rights legislation.

If they want to be a commercial establishment (and all the walk-in profit that entails), they can get a grip and read the human rights legislation - or, as I said, padlock time.

Imagine an ad for an apartment to rent that said "males only". Or "whites only". Not!


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001
Well, they might be able to argue the same thing as women's gyms do - that because gay men are a marginalized group, then it's addressing an imbalance to keeping straight men and all women out of the place.

Not that I support this. Public establishments should have to serve everyone unless they break the rules of the establishment (and, um, having a vagina doesn't count).


Tommy_Paine
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Joined: Apr 22 2001
quote:... padlock time.

Perhaps a poor choice of words for a Quebec establishment. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]

I think the gay bar, like the women's shelter in Vancouver that objected to the transgendered councilor should give thier heads a shake.


500_Apples
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Joined: Jun 3 2006
quote:Originally posted by unionist:

Imagine an ad for an apartment to rent that said "males only". Or "whites only". Not!

Lots of ads for apartments specify gender...


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002
Wow mixing this with the trans-gendered case in BC!!! in my humble opinon they have little similarities except they both will likely give rise to human rights complaints.

So I would like to know do they let ransvestites who are gay go into the bar and if they do how do they know they aren't really females posing as transvestites.

As for straight men well I've been to gay bars in the past and no body ever asked me what my orientation was and how would you decide at the door of a bar what someone's sexual orientation was and I expect that the bar would not be mistaken for a good old boys club by any homophobe.


Doug
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Joined: Apr 17 2001
quote:How can you be sure who's straight, anyway?

Easy. Kiss them and see what happens. [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

This is very much a hot topic of debate these days. The discussion isn't just about whether it's okay to have men-only spaces but also how to define what a man is for that purpose. This sort of policy at bars and events have excluded female-to-male transexuals as well.


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