Is "Men"ism is the logical continuation of feminism
When I watch the progress that the women have done as a group, i'm amaze, it now clear that the woman in occidental have gone a very long road even before the official feminism of the XIX century from an object in the antiquity to the pair of men and equal part companion! For now i feel that the feminism got more social chalenge like there position at the head of corporation and the number of women in the common house. For the evolutions of the side of women being victim of men, i think the still lot of work to do. But that work is not a women job, but the man job. Why? it because i think that the violence that the little few of us exercice on women is a reflection of the violence that generally suround the men environement, (Performance, Display the image of unshakable stability,be resourcefull in all situation). If you think of it men aren't free of any streotype the one of being violent. think of the say that nice guy don't get girl friend. So is the emencipation of men is required in order for feminism to advance?
Nice guys who can't get girlfriends? You're not really going there, are you? Oh, but you did.
Good grief.
Feminists can be of any sex or gender. It's about emancipation on both sides. We don't need "men-ism" because the men who don't have their heads up their butts, thinking that they *deserve* girlfriends because they think they're nice and wondering why the universe doesn't revolve around their emancipation instead of the opposite sex who've been denied equal treatment already ARE FEMINIST.
Nice guys who can't get girlfriends? You're not really going there, are you? Oh, but you did.
Good grief.
Feminists can be of any sex or gender. It's about emancipation on both sides. We don't need "men-ism" because the men who don't have their heads up their butts, thinking that they *deserve* girlfriends because they think they're nice and wondering why the universe doesn't revolve around their emancipation instead of the opposite sex who've been denied equal treatment already ARE FEMINIST.
What i mean by nice guy don't ge girl friend is that there are actually a stereotype that qualify nice guy as weak man, and that say is something that we need dispose asap. And Ironiquely what is qualify as strengh is generally agressivity, which is from my point of view is a display of insecurity. which is more pathetique that simply being nice!
And for the" deserve", i didn't use that word. In fact most nice guy think they deserve girl because they are nice and understanding.
As for the men have you noticed the number of suicide at every aged and the increase of drop out increase for the boy at school. Something s wrong.
As for emencipation is to get rid of stereotype that poison the live of men but also of women by the side.
Look at the phenomena of the super women who try to be carrier women house wife and mother at the same time.
Taking so much role at the same time burn them out. The problem that append offend is that they won't let the men help in the house because according to the stereotype the domain of the men is his office, his work place and the garage.
If she let the men help managing the house work and the child care. Her life will be much better. But for that they must reconise the ability of men even if men dont do the same thing the same way.
ps. prove of the existence of stereotype. Try to think of the Vin diesel or the Rock as responsible of a Child care! and no it not a joke, I'm sure that you think of a young women to take care of your child.
Actually, I'm one of those "super" women who mix career, home ownership and children. So far it hasn't broken me - and the bit about not letting men "help", in my experience, is largely bullshit. Just think about how you're phrasing that: He "helps" - you don't "help" with something that is your responsibility, you just do the job. Women aren't said to "help" with the housework because it is assumed that it is her bailiwick. So just in how you're thinking about this, you're showing an ingrained sexism. My hubby doesn't "help" with child care or housework, he "does" his fair share.
When my spouse and I travel for business, our kids' godfather is their primary caregiver. He's a man in his late middle age. I'm pretty sure Vin Diesel and the Rock are both capable of driving kids to music lessons and reheating a lasagna for dinner.
I'm giving you the benefit of doubt that you mean well, but what you're talking to amounts to hand-wringing over what feminism has done to the poor males - OH, NOES!!! The boys are dropping out! There are more girls in uni!!!!! - when we've seen that the guys do just fine, overall. They're still not being passed over at work for having kids and they aren't being judged on how they keep their trim figures (or not) into middle age.
The nice guys don't get girls gambit is also an offensive stereotype and probably won't be tolerated here in the feminist forum. Ultimately, nice guys who feel they are so nice that women should fall all over them aren't actually nice guys. They've got every ounce of entitlement going that the macho weightlifter down the block has. And they are not feminist.
I don't think the feminist forum is really the place to be talking about male identity and stereotypes. Maybe you should try body and soul.
ETA: You should also look into the archives of the feminist forum. Much of what you're talking about here has been explained much more extensively, hashed out and talked to death. It might be useful to familiarize yourself a bit.
Great posts Timebandit. I think Lefauve is legit and I appreciate you taking it easy on him. Us guys are hard to get to sometimes but posts like yours have reached me before.
Not a good place for your topic Lefauve.
We must get wet sometime if we want thing to advance, i don't mind if my argument get cruch in the process as long as it not personnal attack. For that the whole point of having forum. As for the best place, debating with people who only agree with you is rather borring! Beside sometime is good to question back what we take for granted. At the very least it reinforce our conviction or bring some moderation while avoiding some dangerous slip.
And the point why i bring this question is because feminine condition and male conditions are linked togther, one affect other and not necessarely in oposition!
The role of each other in society it the main topic of feminism.
So if we redefine the woman place and role it logic to also redefine the man place and role.
If we want feminism to advance in the futur, i think we must look at a much integrative approche rather that the actual opposition approche.
The future of men pass by the woman and the futur of the woman pass by the man.
Lefauve, I'd suggest you really strongly consider letting this one go. You're going to dig yourself a very deep hole here in very short order.
I can already see where this is heading.
(That's gonna be my last post in this thread, by the way).
Look at the state of the world today, which is run by men mostly while women are said to do two-thirds of the world's work. Should women admire and respect us?
I think emancipation is a good idea. It starts with fighting for and winning social democracy, and that includes gender equality and treating everybody the way we want to be treated ourselves. I think we'd gain some respect and admiration sometime soon after that. There are some fine women out there. But you'll have to convince them you're fine as well. In fact, don't try to prove anything just be the best you that you can be. There's a match for you out there somewhere. Or at least, this is what they say.
ok i closecthe subject sorry
& some of those women who are ^UP^ there in the Corporate World, have passed the male vetting test by distancing themselves from women in general & feminism in particular.
"Women like Bad Boys"? Nope! Really dumb-ass little girls of whatever age like bad boys. Just like insecure men with multi-level guilt complexes like "Bad Girls". (I've heard women make the same complaint. "Guys are not interested in level headed, honest women.")
"Some of them want to use you. Some of them want to be abused." Sweet Dreams, by Annie Lennox