Canucks oust Vigneault: No one is surprised

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Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture
Canucks oust Vigneault: No one is surprised

Puck Daddy article: Alain Vigneault fired by Canucks; who takes over the coaching gig in Vancouver?

Look! The Canucks actually made a decision!

Although I am a documented anti-Canuck fan, let's hope this is the first in many moves to ah, do something.

I hope Mike Gillis fires himself, and before doing so actually moves Luongo somewhere where he wants to be.

DaveW

well, Luongo did sign that unmovable contract ...

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Yes, signing it thinking he wouldn't have to be moved.

Gilles not moving him this year was the biggest mistake. Like Milberry big (double Milberry burn!) That was just cruel this year, especially because Luongo is still a fantastic goal -- it's not like the whole Turco situation.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Interesting story...but why is this in "Humanities and Culture"?

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

We've always put sports in humanities and culture, since they're part of culture.

Anyway, firing Vigneault is about as stupid as trying to ship Luongo (which might have been, admittedly, Vigneault's idea). Who do you think you'll find that's better than him? It's not going to happen.

Fidel

I don't know if they have to find a better goalie. Everyone and his dog talks about successful or competitive teams and pointing to the Red Wings as a good example. That team competes year after year. I think that if Canucks were to follow the Detroit formula, they should find a bargain goaltender and find beg borrow or steal some grinders on D and third, fourth line wingers. They have good 1st and 2nd line centres and wingers just need some grinders to work the corners and forecheck. All in all I think the Canucks are a pretty good team just need to fill some minor holes is all. Mere tweaks are needed. The problem, tho, is that just about every other team is in search of the same kind of players, and they don't grow on trees as Marc Bergevin says.

As for our Habs? Everyone seems disappointed by a hasty first round exit. I for one am optimistic. Bergevin and co have done an excellent job so far! GO HABS GO!

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

I have said for a long time that Luongo is fragile under pressure -- even after he won the gold that proved rather than disproved his fragility. I usually joke that Sidney Crosby has Luongo to thank for his legendary overtime goal: if Bobby Lu hadn't been between the pipes, it would have been an easy 3-1 victory.

But when they talked about selling a tried and tested President Trophy winning goalie for a hot untested youngster, I thought that was crazy. Sell the prospect, get your D-line and grinders plus some more draft picks and ride Luongo till he retires. Instead, you put yourself in this shitty situation where you end up insulting both of your goalies, disgracing a player who took you to Game 7 of the Cup Finals, and ending up with two unmoveable contracts. What a disaster! Why would you take a cheapo goalie for a cheapo price when you already have Luongo on the cheap?

I know this is a Vancouver thread, but I agree with you about the Habs. Some genuinely talented looking prospects for a change -- Price is brilliant as ever, and maybe players will start thinking that the Habs can win and make it look attractive to the stars of the league.

Fidel

Yeah I don't believe we'll be giving up on Price soon. As Bergevin said, simply, he's 25! He has all the parts and CV to become a great goaltender. And we've put him in too many penalty kill situations this year not just that fiasco of a series with Ottawa. We need team discipline at the same time our speedy forwards are forcing the other team to draw penalties for interference, holding, tripping etc.

Luongo is a proven goaltender, and most great ones' GA's go down come playoff time. They need shotblockers and grinders to help Luongo and give the team that playoff confidence that comes from knowing that when the shots get through, they more than often won't be coming from the scoring slot and instead from bad angles and D allowing him to see shots all the way. I know that sounds arm chair sports page, but I think Canucks are cup champions in waiting. Tweaks not blow it all up.

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

I don't think firing Vigneault was a mistake, it was necessary, he messed up this year -- he didn't play any up and comers and really do much it seems. That team also needs a shake up, a new perspective or something. Vigneault will be gobbled up by some other team quickly.

I think the mistake was Gilles allowing that goalie situation to go on all year. It's not fair to Luongo, especially at his caliber. They should have got rid of him, even if they had to pay out part of his stupid contract. Gilles was the dumb one in the first place to sign him on to such an unmoveable contract and then want to move him.

Look at Philly, the signed Richards and Carter for forever, but then ousted them. It is possible to move players who you thought would be a part of the team forever. But, I digress.

Speaking of habs, I actually think the Luongo situation was probably simliar to the Roy situation -- although a little different. I bet this year during the Canucks playoffs that Luongo would pull a Roy, pass it to the other team and then walk up to his coach. But, I guess he's already done that in some ways.

I don't know if Luongo is fragile, so much as his team doesn't bail him out ever and the fans are merciless (on the whole). It's tough to play in a city with such seemingly indifferent and band-wagony at the same time, for management that is openly try to rid you and calls it "Schieder's" team, etc. I mean, he did play for an Olympic gold, he can't be that fragile.

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Fidel wrote:

Yeah I don't believe we'll be giving up on Price soon. As Bergevin said, simply, he's 25! He has all the parts and CV to become a great goaltender. And we've put him in too many penalty kill situations this year not just that fiasco of a series with Ottawa. We need team discipline at the same time our speedy forwards are forcing the other team to draw penalties for interference, holding, tripping etc.

Price is a fantastic goalie! It was too bad he was injured that game.

I think Montreal needs to get a hold on Suban and his 'tude. Fighting with other team players and yelling at them during a game is not good for the team and the penalties he took during the last game (and others) MY GAWD! He needs to smarten up. he's a great player, and just needs to get a bit more sense and less ego.

Commentators seems so quick to jump to people getting fired. Like with the Bruins, if they didn't make it out of the first roud Julian was getting fired apparently. I mean, the Bruins were having a tough go coming in, but the coach won the  cup with the two years ago and has one of if not they highest win record with the team -- cut him some slack.

Fidel

Yeah, I heard Lucic say at the end of the series with the Leafs that if they hadn't won it, he and his team mates knew there would be players swapped out by next season. That mustve been good for team morale.

P.K. needs some discipline for sure. I like his passion for the game, though. He and Markov are prolific scorers on the powerplay and overall production better than some other teams totals. Like every team we need to stay healthy. Apparently players are vulnerable even after a short season. I thought the officiating could have been better. That crosscheck to P.K.'s head wanted at least 2 minutes. And losing a sniper in the first game by an illegal check to the head was devastating for the Habs. It just didn't begin well.

In my opinion if they want the Moses Mailman Malones and Air Jordans of the NHL to do what they do best and wow us fans with soaring to the net without being drifted with head shots, elbows and tackles, then they have to make it a gentlemans game and not the undisciplined equivalent of a 1970s NBA when players engaged in fist fights and generally disrespected one another on the court. NHLers have to learn to be professionals and to have some respect for one another. They can't be letting no-talent bums take liberties with the Crosbys, Savards and Malkins like they have. Hockey has become too much a business.

I thought the Bruins were done with Seidenberg and Redden injuries. Little Krug is playing big for them. I like(loathe) the Bruins chances now. tho, unless the wheels totally fall off.

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Ya, PK has great passion, but I think it clouds his ability to play sometimes, if that makes sense. He either tries to do it all him self when he gets frustrated or takes the dumbest penalities. They seem to just need some team gelling a bit more. I liked Montreal's chances, but then everyone got injured, and with Price gone, knew it was done time. They'll come back next year and make a good run I predict, unless something horrible happens. I was cheering for Ottawa more, but both teams, and was sad to see that series go the way it did.

The officiating has been awful this playoffs -- the Canucks actually made a good point (!) about their series versus the Blue series, and how what was a penalty would have been par for the course there. We all agree the last one was not a penalty, and I don't even want to discuss that, but the extremes of reffing have been ridiculous. Consider a tooth a game was lost during the Ottawa/Montreal series :)

I think the goon squad factorhas been somewhat lessened -- at least compared to, say the 90s. There are fewer Domis (goon) skating around than S.Throntons (goon with skill). But that will always be a factor in hockey. Sometimes there is no better way to rally your team like a big check or a fight, sadly to say. But as long as there is a respect factor, tis all good.

Also, I thought the finals would be Penguins v. Chicago, because of obvious reaons.

I love Chicago, but if Detroit pulls it out, oh man. Also, I'm still hoping the NY Islanders gain entry way back by like a wildcard or something and win the East.

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

I missed your comment sorry!

Catchfire:

I have said for a long time that Luongo is fragile under pressure -- even after he won the gold that proved rather than disproved his fragility. I usually joke that Sidney Crosby has Luongo to thank for his legendary overtime goal: if Bobby Lu hadn't been between the pipes, it would have been an easy 3-1 victory.

I think you are not given the US team credit (daggers in my heart!), they worked and goals came. I don't think it would have been 3-1, especially given the goalies were Martin "I'm not in the mood" Brodeur, and Marc-Andre "I'm a touch shakey from those Junor Championships still" Fleury (I love both those players though). 

But when they talked about selling a tried and tested President Trophy winning goalie for a hot untested youngster, I thought that was crazy. Sell the prospect, get your D-line and grinders plus some more draft picks and ride Luongo till he retires. Instead, you put yourself in this shitty situation where you end up insulting both of your goalies, disgracing a player who took you to Game 7 of the Cup Finals, and ending up with two unmoveable contracts. What a disaster! Why would you take a cheapo goalie for a cheapo price when you already have Luongo on the cheap?

Dumb GM move. Seriously. Milberry level GMing.

We thought it would be funny if Luongo was traded back to NY Islanders and the Canucks had to continue to pay out parts of his contracts (beautiful irony for Canuck haters)

Schieder (I can never spell his name right) is a great goalie in general, but note to Gilles you do not need another amazing starter goaltender when you already have one that you paid a billion dollars for. I just feel bad for Luongo, and the thing is, they are alienating players from wanting to ever play for the Canucks. Look at what the league says, no one wants to play for that team! The fans (in general, you know the ones that burned down the city, not present company), the management, the current players (diving, compaining). 

They need to overhaul the whole structure of the team asap.

 

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

I remember Kesler, who scored the tying goal in the Gold medal game, I think, saying in an interview in the 2nd Intermission that he told his teammates that Luongo was fighting the puck and that if they scored, he'd break. Which is what happened.

Then again, I watched the game at the Cambie where the first thing I did after it opened at 10am was order three pitchers of beer. So....

I'm starting to think that what really happened in 2011 to the Canucks was that when Luongo had a bad game, the team didn't come together and support one another (especially Luongo) like they used to do. They seemed so out of touch with each other, and they all broke under pressure, not just Luongo. After they went up 3-2 in the series, they've gone 1 and 9 in the playoffs. That's astonishing!

But cripes, believe me I know what it's like being a fan of a team in a city with lunatic fans. At least the Canucks were able to attract stars like the Sedins, Naslund, Bure, Kesler and so on. No one wants to play in Montreal. Why would they? Every win, and the city thinks you're winning the cup. Every loss, and they pillory the player(s) who cost them the Cup they totally would have won otherwise. I remember Alexei Kovalev, the most talented player to play for Montreal in a decade, who left for Ottawa after Montreal offered him the captaincy for the same money, ask the Montreal press corps point blank: "Why would I play well for you?"

(Cf. also Phil Kessel.)

lol @ Canadian hockey teams

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Seeing some of the other NHL coaches still in the playoffs made me realize how important it is to put bad officiating behind you. The Canucks, IMHO, did have bad officiating in some of their games, .. but so what? Yacking about it undermines morale.

It's all about the next game, not the last one. And then the Canucks owner screwed over that Sports Psychology guy who was supposed to help the team. HTFG.

I'm just glad for the Sedins. They got to play with a supportive situation ... and ... voila. World Champions.

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Catchfire wrote:

I'm starting to think that what really happened in 2011 to the Canucks was that when Luongo had a bad game, the team didn't come together and support one another (especially Luongo) like they used to do. They seemed so out of touch with each other, and they all broke under pressure, not just Luongo. After they went up 3-2 in the series, they've gone 1 and 9 in the playoffs. That's astonishing!

That is the epitome of the Canucks right there.

Also when they made the playoffs waaay back in like 2005 and won a game against Detorit and thought they were going to win the cup then Cloutier let in that beachball from centre ice and the whole team deflated.

Oh, Canucks. You are hilarious.

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

@ikosmos I totally agree. And complaining about refs also doesn't get refs on your team's side either. It's important to critque the game and call out bad reffing, but I mean really.

The bad reffing was not the reason they lost that series, and constantly pointing out that bad call as the reason to lose the series was ridiculous. Regardless of bad reffing your terrible playing and going down 3-0 in a series is why you lost.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

The problem is that we are in the new era of the "Broad Street Bullies." Thugs rule in the NHL during the playoffs. On the advice of assholes like Don Cherry the refs throw away their whistles and "let the boys play." That means that the less skilled players get to dominate by clutching and grabbing and slashing and cross checking.  I can't stand watching the playoffs because all teams go down to the lowest level of play and just like in the Flyers glory days the teams with the nastiest bullies win.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The problem is that we are in the new era of the "Broad Street Bullies." Thugs rule in the NHL during the playoffs. On the advice of assholes like Don Cherry the refs throw away their whistles and "let the boys play." That means that the less skilled players get to dominate by clutching and grabbing and slashing and cross checking.  I can't stand watching the playoffs because all teams go down to the lowest level of play and just like in the Flyers glory days the teams with the nastiest bullies win.

Hmmm, I disagree. 

I think refs should "police" the games less, but the utmost importance needs to be in consistency of reffing across the board. I think I already mentioned this, but the Canucks made a good point (my heart!) that what was considered penalties in their series would barely even register in the Kings/Blues series. That's not cool. Good refs warn players and coaches before hand and call the game consistently. "putting the whistle away" doesn't mean letting the game devolve into brawls everynight, as much as Betman may want that.

Don Cherry has now fallen so deep into the depths of awfulness that nothing will save his reputation nor should anyone really listen to him. The CBC should have let him go a few years ago to preserve a semblance of his actually good critical insights. His hard bend on "letting boys be boys" and "playoff hockey is tough and brutal" has gotten absurd. Players shouldn't be losing teeth every game nor playing with broken ribs -- that shit shouldn't be glorified. Cherry is right that playoff hockey is tough, but it is that more is at stake and passions are heightened, not faces need to be smashed.

What I would like to see a bit more of is off-setting penalities, to send a message, especially about diving. It also tends to quell a situation when both sides are penalized as opposed to pissing off one team, etc.

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture
Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Catchfire wrote:

this is nothing but hilarious to me ;)

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Kaitlin McNabb wrote:

Hmmm, I disagree. 

I think refs should "police" the games less, but the utmost importance needs to be in consistency of reffing across the board. I think I already mentioned this, but the Canucks made a good point (my heart!) that what was considered penalties in their series would barely even register in the Kings/Blues series. That's not cool. Good refs warn players and coaches before hand and call the game consistently. "putting the whistle away" doesn't mean letting the game devolve into brawls everynight, as much as Betman may want that.

You agree that the standard for penalties is different depending on which team is playing and think that the NHL top brass want the game to devolve into brawls ever night. 

So what exactly were you disagreeing with?

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

nooo, did I mistype? hmm. 

Refs should be more consistent. My Canucks quote was in support of what they said -- I rarely agree with them about anything, especially penalties. The reffing was inconsistent across series and that was unfair. No references were made to the caliber of the teams playing.

I disagree that "thugs rules" during the playoffs. Maybe during a few of these series, but that is because the reffing has been terrible and the idea, similar to Cherry's, that "playoff's should be tough/blood!" has been taken too literally.

I think letting a few things slide during playoffs helps the flow of the game -- i do. But the things to let slide are like wishy-washy hooks and trips, not high sticks to the face or blatant crosschecks.

More off-setting penalties should be called to calm teams.

I don't think "thugs rule" and if we are talking about a new breed of Broad Street Bully, then it is a bully with more talent and not just a goon. 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

I'm curious about one playoff issue.

Is it true that, generally, the players get paid nothing extra for the playoffs while the owners are able to pile up enormous profits on the really expensive (but high demand) playoff tickets? I've read this once or twice but it would be helpful to have it confirmed.

If true, all the blather about the "importance" of winning the Cup comes across as war time cannon-fodder enlistment speeches. Come to think of it, the pro-militaristic diatribes of Cherry make perfect sense in such a context.

Anyway, I don't know for sure but some honest, and knowledgeable, hockey fan might know the answer.

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

I'm not sure, good question.

Signing bonuses are definitely a thing, and it seems likely players and teams would receive more money for playoffs.

I know that some players have it built into their contracts that if they win the cup or something they get a bunch of bonus monies -- Crosby comes to mind with that one.

Although, maybe I am mistaken.

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Bonuses yes - i was gonna mention that - but we all know that bonuses are typically contingent on results. So if you win you get $X,XXX,XXX, but if you lose you get .... fired in the case of the Canucks coach, or -diddly-squat in the case of players.

The ones who know ain't talking, maybe.

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Okay so I just asked a source, this is what I got:

- the team gets a huge lump sum of money if they win a cup and that is split amongst the players on the team; if they make the conference finals they make some money too -- I don't know how they split it (equally?) or what. 

- I read that some players do have contract bonuses for playoff wins, the cup that is

It's hard to find stuff out there, clearly it's not that transparent an industry.

So, super money for winning, a somewhat super money for making it to the finals, and potentially conference finals, and probably nothing before that.

BUT let's be honest, the "diddly-squat" is still $500,000 for the "worst" players

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

I heard the Canucks are in talks with Torts for potential new coach. Sealed

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Noooooo

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Brace for this: apparently Vigneault might go to Rangers.

Coach swap?

NorthReport

Good riddance. Just several years too late.

Mike Gillis fired as Vancouver Canucks GM after team eliminated from playoff contention

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2014/04/08/vancouver-canucks-fire-gm-mike...