Aliens Land!
October 1, 2010 - 10:18pm
Support rabble | Advertise with us | Contact our staff | About rabble | Log-in or Register for a new account | Corrections | Privacy policy | Newsfeeds | Mailing lists
rabble: Features | Columnists | In Cahoots | Blogs | Books | Photos | What's Up | Polls
babble: Forum Topics | Active Topics
The rpn: Become a Podcaster | Find a Show
rabbleTV: Program Guide | Features | Indie Inside | Best of the net
Copyright © 2001-2012 the authors
Syndicate
A thread to discuss ufo's, aliens, and whatnot.
Let's say that an alien spacecraft actually did crash land in Roswell, NM in June 1947. Given this, we will know at least three things:
1. Aliens have highly advanced technology
2. Aliens have the ability to travel vast distances through space.
3. Aliens have visited earth.
With these three things, we can now ask:
1. If aliens have the ability to travel vast distances, then why only land on a restricted US military base and not, say Times Square, or Mecca, or the Champs d'Eleysees? Why not repeated landings all over the place?
2. If they have visited Earth once before, why haven't they returned? Why stop in 1947? Why not today?
3 If they have advanced technology, why haven't they attempted to recover their lost, and presumably highly valuable craft?
In addition, we can make some conjectures as to the nature of the beings:
1. They are either highly trained personnel, with highly demanding training to use such technologies, under the direction of an intricate command and control structure or
2. They are the equivalent of bubbas joy riding in their 4 x 4's across the galaxy.
If (1) then where is the:
1. Search and rescue
2. Follow up to determine their fate
If (2) then
1. Where are the other Bubbas?
-----------------------------------
Now, if they crashed in area 51, in Roswell NM, in 1947, what's stopping them from returning? A fear of the mighty US military (whose greatest technological accomplishment as of 1947 was a computer the size of a city block)?
What possible technological advantage has a crashed interstellar spacecraft provide the US that allows them to maintain such a stranglehold on the planet; Tang or Velcro?
The mighty US military has been defeated in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan by peasant rebellions. Where is the reverse engineered warp drive bombers? Where is the impervious garments? Where is this magical space technology that arrived sixty years ago?
Germany and Japan, presumably without the benefit of shitty alien drivers, managed to keep pace and/or outpace the US in technological development since the end of WWII. Where is all the cool shit we're presuming comes from capturing a priceless alien technology? When they captured ME262s during the final days of the war, they immediately began to tear them apart to learn their secrets, which showed up rather quickly in the Meteor and the F-86. Where are our interstellar spacecraft that one would assume show up after a few scientists kicked the tires of the alien craft?
Watch Independence Day or read Footfall. That's why.
...and here I thought it was about "Harperland". The great Gazoo bears a slight resemblance, as a matter of fact.
I'm guessing Velcro. They couldn't understand the other stuff, or couldn't get the materials.
Seriously - all right, semi-seriously - there may have been any number of secret landings in various places. Maybe the aliens don't want to make contact (except that one gregarious green guy), and maybe they have good reason. Maybe they're surveying the place for a subdivision. Or doing art projects in oat fields. Or writing psych research papers. Or waiting for the last government standing, so they only have to deal with one bunch of lunatics.
It's possible. But i definitely don't believe they go around mutilating cattle and probing people. I have no evidence for rejecting that notion - just hoping they have better taste.
1. If aliens have the ability to travel vast distances, then why only land on a restricted US military base and not, say Times Square, or Mecca, or the Champs d'Eleysees? Why not repeated landings all over the place?
Yes, and why buzz a nuclear weapons test area in New Mexico in 1947 when they could have been checking out prized artwork at le Louvre in Paris and made monetarily valuable only to earthlings by filthy rich people only after the artists are dead and buried in paupers graves? It makes no sense to me either why they would not share the same cultural values as our richest and most powerful supreme beings here on earth? It's beyond belief really. Have they no sense of class?
Project "Blue Book" and similar international UFO studies of sightings all beginning around the year 1947 reveals that they have. Everyone from farmers, police officers, military officials, commercial airline pilots, nurses, doctors, bricklayers, news reporters, children, Apollo astronauts and world leaders say so, too. In many an opinion, those people are more credible than someone who goes by the handle 'Jingles' on an internet forum. Ha! Gotcha. Of course, you don't want to know this when it's your intention to ignore the evidence in order to make mock of a serious subject.
We've lost a number of exploratory spacecraft on just the moon and Mars and never bothered to recover those. Why not? Would it not be cost effective to just abandon those lost vehicles and build more?
You're not a very good debunker, Jingles.
Rendlesham Forest incidenct 1980 for one. The US Air Force officer in that Press Club meeting mentions that he was there and saw two amazing sightings that were hushed up by the military. Plenty more since 1947.
That's not a very interesting question. I'll help you out. Here's a better one asked by clever debunking debunkers:
Why would advanced civlizations travel all this way to earth, maneuvering through asteroid belts and interstellar debris only to crash land at Roswell NM? Were they drunk?
You have to admit that even I am better at this than you.
How many test pilots would attempt to fly 7000 mph and fly right angle turns without decelerating? Personally, I get a little queezy riding the tiltawhirl. Might try kingda ka coaster some day. But I can't imagine not tossing my cookies and blacking out well before mach 9.
"Did a vehicle come from some where out there
Just to land in the Andes?
Was it round, and did it have a motor,
Or was it something diff'rent?"
One of my favourite Frank Zappa tunes: Inca Roads
SR71 Blackbird Fastest manned aerial vehicle. Top speed mach 3 maybe 4 according to legend. The bird flew so hot that it changed colour by the time it was back on the ground. Fixed wing craft not too stable when changing direction 90 degrees at top speed. Prolly a suicide maneuver for the pilot.
For a highly advanced technological race, they sure have a hard time avoiding the US military. Funny how that works. It's almost as if they just can't help themselves.
Now you're ascribing motives to the aliens that you can't possibly know. Why land in a restricted military base rather than a highly populated city? If you were an alien, where would you go, New Mexico or Paris?
For someone who claims not to believe in lying governments, you put a lot of faith in the eyewitness testimony of former military intelligence operatives.
You can believe the "testimony" of rum soaked former air force officers, or you can look for evidence. Your choice.
Please try making sense. In one instance you assert that aliens have visited and have continued to visit, yet are covered up by a vast conspiracy. In the next you assert that they'd just abandon their lost vehicle and crew? Make up your mind. Either they can come here repeatedly, or they can't.
What it comes down to is that there is no evidence. None, nada zip. Not a single goddamn singed blade of grass that one can point to as evidence. Just a lot of attention seekers, liers, con men, confused people, ignorant people, and hucksters trying to sell a load of shit to a lot of gullible people.
What we see at work here is the same mentality that allows for religions to do their damage. I think it was Dawkins who called it "magical thinking". Transubstantiation or Area 51, it's the same malfunction of the brain that makes people believe stupid shit which makes them feel better about their lousy existence.
I wonder if there's a crackpot story you won't believe. A little tip: if you get a letter from a Nigerian government official wanting to give you a million dollars, go for it! It's a chance of a lifetime!
For a highly advanced technological race, they sure have a hard time avoiding the US military. Funny how that works. It's almost as if they just can't help themselves.
Now you're ascribing motives to the aliens that you can't possibly know. Why land in a restricted military base rather than a highly populated city? If you were an alien, where would you go, New Mexico or Paris?
If I was an alien in the 1940s, I might think the most significant thing about the earth is nuclear weapons testing. I can only speculate though. And maybe millions of ordinary people riding subways and street cars and going to work pushing paper and making widgets is just too mundane and blaze for visitors from out of town. I know rural folk here who have no desire to see Toronto or Montreal much less Paris or New York as exciting and bustling a cities as they may be. Personally I wouldn't mind visiting New York or even Tokyo. By what I can tell they are interesting cities according to the physical photographic and eye witness evidence.
I dunno, maybe they come here in '47 thinking we've got half a brain each, and some idiot named Jingles shoots them down. Or maybe the things were piloted by malfunctioning robots. Who knows why really?
You can believe the "testimony" of rum soaked former air force officers, or you can look for evidence. Your choice.
Rum soaked air force officers who probably went to university or college, and some who graduated from US Air Force Academy, and some who climbed the ranks from lowly enlisted men, or sometimes they are known as worker-drones to classist elites. Some are former astronauts, like the former Gordon Cooper, and Apollo astronaut Ed Mitchell and a few more But again your only recourse here is to deny the evidence of real people who are slightly more well known than ourselves and some who have no real incentive to expose themselves to public ridicule as self important as we may believe our anonymous internet selves to be.
Please try making sense. In one instance you assert that aliens have visited and have continued to visit, yet are covered up by a vast conspiracy. In the next you assert that they'd just abandon their lost vehicle and crew? Make up your mind. Either they can come here repeatedly, or they can't.
What if the most high tech equipment on those craft are self-replicating cyborgenetic androids ie. robots? What if the crashed saucers are merely scout vehicles carried here by much larger mother ships piloted by either alien beings or their highly intelligent organic robots?
Von Neumann Probes?
The blade of grass detail - that's not true. They have left behind physical evidence. You just don't care to consider the evidence in favour of ranting on so like some down the liner type who missed his bran muffin this morning. Cranky much?
But I think you're just another guy who reads Dawkins and thinks he's a god for having tricked you out of your $19.95 or whatever. Have to admit that Dickery Dawkins is clever for sure.
ha ha You make a lot of sense if we simply ignore a truckload of evidence. Other than that you're a laff riot, Jingles. You're a valuable member of team "la la la la we can't HEAR you" debonky debunkers. "Rum soaked" former officers, ha that's a good one. What about people just like your comedic self who have seen and photographed the same things? Or can we also assume that everyone who looks and sounds like a Jingles is a rum soaked internet knowitall and not to be believed with regard to anything much? If everyone and his dog is a lying liar for no apparent reason, then how can we trust anyone? Why not just be shut-ins for the rest of our lives and never venture out to be mailbox out of a lack of curiosity in just about everything under the sun? You're a hoot. And thanx for the laffs.
...and here I thought it was about "Harperland". The great Gazoo bears a slight resemblance, as a matter of fact.
Actually, the resemblance is uncanny-- but Harper would need a larger helmet!
You fools!
Here I am among you, in plain sight, and you doubt aliens?
Oh, do stop showing off and put your uniform back on.
This is my uniform!
I have tentacles inside...many tentacles.
FZ: Why don't you sharpen it then?
{thank you, Al-Q, for that Zap!! I am listening to it now...}
Link to lyrics> http://www.lyricsfreak.com/f/frank+zappa/inca+roads_20056784.html
---
Frankly dear, I don't crash MY spacecraft
---
Alien technology exists in the computer you are sitting in front of. Can anyone explain how the images show up without a projector? Sure, text is easy code, but the images? Gotta be alien, man.
Bill Gates is a reptile, in cahoots with the aliens. They are quietly working behind the scenes to take over earth so they can have the tar sands for themselves!!
- see this link for his "vaccines are for population reduction" article > http://www.naturalnews.com/029911_vaccines_Bill_Gates.html
Swamp Gas Sighting Debunked as UFO
"I guess you could say we were 'swamped," joked Sheriff Randy Kracker.
Ben Simons, spokesman for the local group "People for Swamp Gas Disclosure" didn't take the incident so lightly.
"Outrage...That's all I can say about our local and federal government's reaction to this amazing phenomena. I simply cannot believe they can ignore swamp gas any longer, especially when it's right there for everyone to see, like Wednesday night!"
Officials from nearby Luke Airforce Base have responded with striking disagreement about Wednesday night's events.
"This was just another case of an unidentified flying object, or 'U.F.O." as we call them. UFO's are absolutely harmless and certainly nothing to get too excited about," said Commander Brent Tooly, investigator of U.S. airspace violations.
Believers cite evidence of swamp gas going back to the 15th Century, but skeptics maintain most sightings can easily be explained as UFO's.
THE UFO “WHY?” QUESTIONS Stanton Friedman
WHY would saucers crash?
I've always found Carl Sagan's theory on extraterrestrial life the most sensible (Googling, I find it was actually Drake's equation he adhered to). He postulated that although billions of worlds that support life must exist, that the chances of those worlds existing within transportation or even communicable distances of Earth were going to be rather rare - but that a few would likely exist. Unfortunately, when one looks at the tiny fraction of the world's existence during which technological civilization has existed, it is highly unlikely that two planets will have such an occurence at the same time, in the same vicinity of space.
So while I believe intelligent life exists out there, I don't believe that we will ever encounter it.
Moreover I think it is wrong to assume that all life evolves to higher levels of intelligence. Take our history. If a meteor had not struck earth, dinosaurs would still run the show, their time on this planet dwarfs ours.
Carl Sagan on the Drake equation
It's dishearteningly realistic to hear Sagan speak of Drake parameters resulting in N=10 or fewer possible technical civilizations. But then things get interesting at 7:20 into Sagan's monologue. With one small difference, N then becomes millions of technically advanced civilizations.
Exactly, LTJ. I think the fact that most people have no understanding, or ability to understand just how vast are the distances, and how long the timeframe, leads them to the same conclusions as the end-timers and the creationists. It's root is in the same narcissism that places themselves at the center of the universe. They cannot grasp Deep Time, they cannot grasp simple physics, and the limitations of technology are, well, alien to them.
It's much more flattering to think that a species from another part of the galaxy would bother to come all the way to earth to visit ME! The same way a supernatural being which created the very universe would care that your "soul" must live on for eternity. It's all rather childish, really.
Belief in aliens is just another variation on the magical thinking that gives rise to religions.
Argument from authority. Why don't you quote this officer, this paragon of duty and honor:
If an "educated" officer says it, it must be true!
Ultimately, belief in visiting aliens is utterly pointless. If there were alien visitors, we would all know about them the same way we know about giant squid: very few people have ever seen one, but when they do, it's pretty fucking obvious what it is. And the bodies washing up on shore is what is called "physical evidence". Which is what UFO people don't have. At all. It just didn't happen, and nowhere has there been any evidence to the contrary. Ramblings of former officers means nothing. Show me the spaceship, or shut up already.
I am also puzzled by your constant allusions to elitism or classism, implying that I am somehow a class traitor or something. I don't know where that comes from, unless it's from a general palate of ad hominem from which you draw when you run out of former air force officers to quote.
Moreover I think it is wrong to assume that all life evolves to higher levels of intelligence. Take our history. If a meteor had not struck earth, dinosaurs would still run the show, their time on this planet dwarfs ours.
And I don't think scientists believe that all life out there will have evolved in the same way that it did here. It may be possible for lizards to have become the dominant form of life. Technically, lizards are classified under the 'animalia' kingdom as are humans, insects and so on. There could be some strange looking beings out there. Some scientists have even posited that extraterrestrial life may not all be carbon based life forms. Some may even be silicon based life, or perhaps life forms based on non-organic compounds.
It's expected that our own evolution will be radically effected by merging man and machine in the next few centuries. Will cyborgs be a temporary stage of human development before man becomes extinct and machines take over? Has it already happened on other planets? Could UFO's be piloted by spiritual, self-replicating machines combing the universe for all eternity?
And don't get me wrong about Jingles. Most of the time he posts some damn witty and all around entertaining comments from a leftwing POV. But some of his comments are not so well thought out. Of course, that's just my opinion
I would think that if there is any long distance space travel it would automated. Otherwise even in a frozen state there is a need to provide life support for an awful long time. I could see Earth in 1000 years discovering conclusive proof of life on a far away planet and deciding to send a probe.
Well SURE! Because we all know that US Air Force Officers who DO NOT report UFO's are the sane ones as opposed to these crazy Press Clubbers blowing the whistle on UFOs only AFTER they've left the world's most elite military force. And besides, we all know whistleblowing is encouraged by the US Government and all its various public agencies operating entirely on the basis of TOTAL transparency and accountability to the public. It's just these bad apples and nutters pointed to by Fidel who are trying to sully the good name of a vicious empire. And furthermore, we all know how much the US Air Force wants everyone to know how defenseless they are to foreign incursions of its air space. And the best way to do that is to provide incentives and bonuses to its often times inebriated officer corp to come forward with wild stories about UFOs disabling nuclear missile launchers for days at a time. Because the US Air Force's REAL agenda is to project an image of impotence in the face of any foreign presence however remote.
It all makes sense to us now. Thanx for setting us straight once again, Jingles. Where might we be without you lighting the way for us we can only guess.
I'm wondering if Rick Salutin was fired from the Globe for passing comment on Abudinejahd's remarks to the U.N. about Space Invaders ?
'Course I'm just theorising.
The Last Straussian (excerpt from Salutin's last published piece):
"Leo Strauss," Salutin summarized, "was a German-Jewish thinker who escaped Hitler for the U.S. but despaired over the depravity that liberalism might lead to there as it had in Germany, after the liberal 1920s. He felt almost any means were valid to save Western civilization but, due to liberalism's strength, the strategy had to be cautious, secretive, even duplicitous, with the truth confined to an elite."
http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2010/09/30/RickSalutinLastWords/
Sorry, I'm off topic.
Aliens Fake Own invasion, Seize Nuclear Codes Under False Pretences !
See:
http://www.shannonsullivan.com/drwho/serials/2005de.html
Fidel, you're not making any sense. What do aliens have to do with the US empire? Why do you insist on believing that anyone who questions your beliefs does so because they are right wing supporters of Pax Americana?
*Sigh*
It's all part and parcel of Anthrosupremecist thinking. The belief that humans are the highest and best expression of evolution or creation. It's the same line of thought which thinks we couldn't have evolved from monkeys, because that would be beneath us. It would have been nice if that way of thinking died out after the Scopes monkey trial, but there it is.
Out of ~4.5 billion years of the earths existence, Homo Sapiens Sapiens have been around for an eyeblink. For most of our history, we were hunter-gatherers in small bands using stone and bronze tools. Our technological age began with the domestication of plants and permanent settlements, but really only took off in the late 19th century. But we're supposed to believe out of all this time, aliens chose to appear just at that very period in history where near space travel became possible. They chose to show up at the dawning of the nuclear age, when the space age was a fashion and a fad. Suddenly, space became a theme and a cultural touchstone, unlike at any other time or place in human history. So they show up at the height of the space craze, in the one place on earth where the fad had the most traction.
We're supposed to believe that, notwithstanding the previous 4 million years of humanity, at a time and place in history where American technological and imperial triumphalism was at its apex, suddenly we're visited by aliens only the US Air Force can see? That's a pretty big coincidence, ain't it?
Well it would look somewhat odd if only vicious empire central's rootin-tootin whistleblowers were the ONLY ones denying reports of UFOs, it's true. I suppose this is why the nutters and whackos have been so careful as to implant themselves in all of those other international government agencies as an elaborate plot to make those government defense agencies appear worthless and weak at the same time. Apparently even vicious empire's cold war nemesis, the Russians, have reported UFOs over their moose pastures by air force pilots and even cosmonauts and all. Man, we have to hand it to the nutters who must have thought to globalize this wild conspiracy theory in the wake of the end of a cold war. You have to admit that the crazies and inebriated air force officials minding the nukes and stuff have planned this one out pretty well. Do you still think it's a long running communist plot to make the US Air Farce look bad, Jingles? Maybe they're US Govminit HOLOGRAMS! A big hoax perpetrated by Pax Robertson, the CIA and Frank Zappa groupees to freak us out? ha ha
Weeeell videe vowdee voodee right away ....
I'd ask you what the fuck you're talking about, but it would just lead to more rambling stream-of-consciousness nonsense. I think I'll pass.
LTJ hits the nail on the head again. We're more likely to encounter a Perforated Messiah than the Great Gazoo.
I'd ask you what the fuck you're talking about, but it would just lead to more rambling stream-of-consciousness nonsense. I think I'll pass.
Oh potty mouth! That's always a good debating style. Very convincing. And everyone who brings scorn on the US Air Farce is an inebriated potty mouth, too!
I dunno why they don't just sit the saucers down on the White House lawn or something like dat dare. I mean it's not like there's any "shoot'em down" orders from the head of the Farce or anything. Our neighbors are not the trigger happy manyaks that everyone and his dog in Afghanistan and Iraq etc. believes they are. We all know from Jingles' comments that it's happy hour 24/7 as far as the US Air Farce is concerned. Maybe the visitors are extroverted and agoraphobic at the same time, or something.
I called it.
And as for why alien Bubba crashed his earth excursion vehicle back in '47, there could be a plausible explanation for that, too. What if cosmic rays knocked a bit off one of the auto pilot sub programs stores on tape drive then? It's possible,
What if grey Bubba had the flu that day? I know I shouldn't drive when I'm under the influence of some of those over the counter snake oil remedies myself.
Or what if cowboy Bubba just wasn't used to flying in earth gravity? Come on! Cut 'em some slack why can't we? It's not like they're crashing all the time. It's not like earth gravity and all weather flying is exactly the same as interStella navigation in the deep black wide openness.
All we know is that real people from all walks of life and nationalities are seeing things which some of us have great difficulties believing ourselves without hard, empirical proof. And there is physical proof as we've mentioned before.
What physical evidence? Lemme guess; "the US Air Force is hiding it".
What physical evidence? Lemme guess; "the US Air Force is hiding it".
There exists:
1. Eye witness testimonies. Of course, you can scratch this as you don't trust anyone between the ages of 21 and 99.
2. Paintings depicting UFOs dating back centuries
3. Photographic evidence dating back to the 19th century
4. Video
5. RADAR records
All of that is considered empirical, physical evidence. Note I say evidence and not hard, irrefutable proof. And some people accused of being criminals have been given prison sentences and even put to death by circumstantial evidence. Sad but true. UFO enthusiasts say the feds are hiding the good stuff from public scrutiny for a number of reasons we can only speculate on at this point.
None of that is evidence. It's all hearsay and conjecture. "Paintings depicting UFOs"? Really? They painted dragons, unicorns, and devils too. I guess that's all the proof we need! And everybody knows that it's impossible to fake photos, or to misinterpret the image. They took pictures of ghosts at seances, should we start a thread about ghosts too?
So, you're telling us that there is no physical evidence whatsoever. Not a damn thing. That's what I thought.
And make sure never to look at or comment on the evidence. This will enable you to say and repeat with impunity something along the lines of, "I have never seen any evidence to support your ridiculous claims." This method of refusing to even look through Galileo's telescope bought the Catholic Church and its inquisitors about 300 years worth of quality denialism.
The Real X-Files
How about this pic - Vancouver City Hall, 1937
http://www.ufoevidence.org/photographs/section/pre1940/Photo136.htm
How about this pic - Vancouver City Hall, 1937
http://www.ufoevidence.org/photographs/section/pre1940/Photo136.htm
That Vancouver UFO looks like a little like this flier depicted in a 14th century crucifixion fresco at the monastery of Decani, Kosovo
LTJ hits the nail on the head again. We're more likely to encounter a Perforated Messiah than the Great Gazoo.
Actually I think we may someday talk to them via radio telescope or something.
Also jingles the craft crashed on a ranch near Roswell New Mexico after/during a lighting storm; it didn't "land" at Area 51... just saying.
Boyd Bushman says he knew the pilot who shot it down... the UFO at Roswell that is. If so, then apparently they didn't anticipate encountering hostile avatars, or something.
So if invaders from Mars lost one of their bubba wingmen in '47, how many have the good guys lost? What are the chances that experienced fighter pilots from the cold war era would fly dozens or hundreds of missions over Europe and even airspace over communist countries, and dogging it out with the best MIG pilots, and then return to the States only to crash land unceremoniously while chasing lights in the sky? Did homeys lose 20 of their ace Bubbas in one day?
I would think that if there is any long distance space travel it would automated. Otherwise even in a frozen state there is a need to provide life support for an awful long time. I could see Earth in 1000 years discovering conclusive proof of life on a far away planet and deciding to send a probe.
Unless of course in a thousand years, human civilization is back to chasing small mammals with wooden spears. Time is also a factor, civilizations, come and go. Maybe the aliens are really looking for the Maya...
Not a snowballs chance in hell.
Seth Shostak agrees with Pogo.
Astronomer Seeks ET Machines
If and when we do create true AI, it would surpass us quickly. An AI would have the power to self-direct its own evolution.
“If we build a machine with the intellectual capability of one human, then within 5 years, its successor is more intelligent than all humanity combined,” he says.
The window between a society’s technological birth and its shift to artificial intelligence is amazingly small.
Machines. Damn! It's no wonder we can't hear them. They could be machines speaking some kind of alien machine language. Or would the drones actually be a new species engineered by aliens? I don't think they would necessarily have to look like Robby the robot or Will Smith's companion, and prolly nothing like "Gort" What if the probes were engineered from organic material? Would aliens create an actual new species of being in their likeness? Expendable? Moral? Feelings? Smarter than all of humanity combined?
I think we've encountered them already, or rather, they've been observing us like zoologists would observe macaques and monkeys in the wild.
According to some scientists who apparently don't believe in the UFO phenomenon, our first encounter with an advanced civilization will likely be with what's known by Kardashev-Dyson as a type III civilization. We are still type zero. And the encounter would likely occur similar to the scenario depicted in the Stanley Kubrick movie, 2001:A Space Odyssey based on former scientist Arthur Clarke's book of the same name. If we ever make it to type II, then we should become immortal as a species ourselves. Type III status would come not so long after that given a modest growth rate of one percent per year. At which point the most efficient way of exploring outer space would be to send probes fanning out across the galaxy.
I'm surprised no one has made the connexion between alien landings and the pod-person who is currently living in 24 Sussex Drive.
Well I guess we can't say the Tories have held back in this regard.
Canada releases UFO X-Files to the World
What the? 1947? Why would UFO reports begin in the year 1947?
Were Canadians seeing US Air Force's top secret ballons and crash test mannequins in the sky, too?
That's strange, because so do other western countries UFO archives begin in the year 1947. International mass hysteria? Is there ANY SPECIAL REASON they chose 1947 to start reporting UFO sightings?
Anyone know the answer? Anyone at all? Woohoo? Yew! Yes, you behind the bikes shed!
In related news...
The Science Centre is reviewing the footage frame-by-frame to determine whether Hickey-Jones' claim is legitimate. With closer examination, Science Centre staff is hoping to establish whether or not a genuine unicorn sighting has occurred.
In the meantime, the Science Centre is asking the public to use caution if they think they see a unicorn. Do not make any sudden movements or attempt to use flash photography. Although legends of unicorns state that they are peaceful creatures, scientists worry that they may harm themselves or others if they end up on a road or highway. The Ontario Science Centre has set up an emergency unicorn hotline for the public for further information on unicorns or to report any unusual or questionable sightings. The hotline number is 416-696-3260.
I heard they didn't get aboard Noah's Ark.
Oh aye!
A long time ago, when the Earth was green,
There was more kinds of animals than you've ever seen.
And they ran about and played while the Earth was being born,
And the loveliest of all was the unicorn.
There was green alligators and long-necked geese,
Some humpty backed camels and some chimpanzees.
Some cats and rats and elephants, but sure as you're born,
The loveliest of all was the unicorn. - Irish Rovers
Zen . . . And the Art of Debunkery
Part 1: General Debunkery
<> Before commencing to debunk, prepare your equipment. Equipment needed: one armchair.
<> Put on the right face. Cultivate a condescending air that suggests that your personal opinions are backed by the full faith and credit of God. Employ vague, subjective, dismissive terms such as "ridiculous" or "trivial" in a manner that suggests they have the full force of scientific authority.
<> Portray science not as an open-ended process of discovery but as a holy war against unruly hordes of quackery- worshipping infidels. Since in war the ends justify the means, you may fudge, stretch or violate the scientific method, or even omit it entirely, in the name of defending the scientific method.
<> Keep your arguments as abstract and theoretical as possible. This will "send the message" that accepted theory overrides any actual evidence that might challenge it--and that therefore no such evidence is worth examining...
Hilarious!
That's strange, because so do other western countries UFO archives begin in the year 1947. International mass hysteria? Is there ANY SPECIAL REASON they chose 1947 to start reporting UFO sightings?
Anyone know the answer? Anyone at all? Woohoo? Yew! Yes, you behind the bikes shed!
Reason #3:
The advancement of technology, particularly in aircraft, communication and tracking that took place during the war was just becoming known to civilian populations.
Reason #2:
Publications, such as Asimov's SF magazine and science fiction novels were becoming popular; the kids who grew up on this stuff were .. well... growing up... ish...
Reason #1
I landed on Earth
Or, would the US Air Force lie to the public for any other possible reasons? Stanton Friedman summarizes the US Air Force's lies since the Roswell incident in this order:
Some of us in this thread tend to want to ignore the US Air Force's whistleblowers testimonies as being credible evidence whatsoever. They were inebriated "rum soaked" pilots and officers in charge of guarding nuclear weapons installations etcetera and so on.
But when it comes to the US Air Force's official and ever changing explanations pawned off on the public concerning Roswell, do we take them seriously and accept their story(s) as truth? Or is it only retired US Air Force officials who have taken up imbibing and are not to be believed? Apparently it doesn't pay to be a whistleblower in the US Air Force, or NASA, or the CIA, NSA, US Army, US State Dept. US Government etc because then suddenly they are not so credible. Why is it that only after quitting or retiring from the US government agencies do these people suddenly take up drinking and telling tall tales? Are they just trying to command attention? Are their government pensions too small to live on, and now they have to write science fiction stories to supplement their incomes?
Come on people, the real reason that the aliens don't come down and visit is because they can't find any intelligent life on the planet.
How many might try flying a Cessna plane over the White House, or over a nuclear power station today?
Amateur Cessna pilots may have dominated NORAD air space for nearly two hours on 9/11, but those were highly irregular incidents and not the norm.
US and international air force pilots have tried to shoot down UFOs ever since the 1950s. Most of the time the UFOs and 'foo fighters' blow the doors off the fastest military jets though. It's not something they want to advertise a lot.
A small percentage of UFO sightings are actually unexplainable by the experts and skeptics.
The Disclosure Project: Are you ready for the truth? YouTube 2009
Well I guess I'll have to apologize to Jingles. Because both he and Luther Campbell have it figured out. The ex-military guys really are whackos!
Aliens, military wackos, and the next war
I'm telling y'all: It's a scam to keep financing the military defense industry.
The UFOs are being made in China. Then they are exported to the United States, where the CIA and the Joint Chiefs of Staff concoct sightings to get the mainstream media hyped up. Once this lunacy makes MSNBC and CNN, it floods the Internet. Then before you know it, we're slipping millions more into the defense budget.
Very clever, Jingles. And Luther.
Okay, it's nice and quiet in here...
We have crossed galaxies and travelled billions of miles...where are we exactly? Er...Rotherham...
Why would they travel to this blue dot just to check out Rotherhammers? Don't they know they know we're not that important and that life here is a wild accident never to be repeated in at least a hundred Darwinian attempts elsewhere? A bloody miracle you say? Go on, duck. I'll have a cup 'o.
UFO disclosure has happened! Did you notice?
Well it took long enough. But why haven't they landed on the White House lawn and announced their presence? Give us one good reason why the US President and Congress are not recognized as speaking for and representing all nations.
Here's the question I've always had about extraterrestrials: so they've got all kinds of awesome technology, and they can communicate telepathically, and they can travel vast distances in space, so they use all of this to come to Arkansas, find some bumpkin on a deserted back road, pluck him from his pickup truck and probe his bum. WHY??? What is it about the human rectum that "the greys" just cannot get enough of??
No, no we don't want Einstein's DNA. We're not here for your Molybdenum. This isn't a diplomatic mission. But can we probe your hoop, please??
Exactly, LTJ. I think the fact that most people have no understanding, or ability to understand just how vast are the distances, and how long the timeframe, leads them to the same conclusions as the end-timers and the creationists.
Here's a tool to help with that problem
Why do people go to the zoo? Why do you find, on any particular day, dozens of people at a bus stop? Why do people like to travel in general? Because they can?
At one time, real scientists said that air travel was impossible. There were once people in Toronto, Ontario who, if asked about air travel from that city to Los Angeles in just a few hours, would have said it was a crazy idea. Obviously those people were not very scientific minded at the time. They were not being very objective about the problem of intercontinental travel by air.
Diplomatic mission? Usually a diplomatic mission means two equal parties meeting to discuss something. You're assuming they are our intellectual equals. Why would you assume that? When you go to the zoo, are you there on a mission to talk to the monkeys? Why not offer them a book to read, something by Marx in hope that they might learn the way it is and liberate themselves?
Not to probe the animals' asses. Also, if the zoo were 142 light years away, I think people especially wouldn't travel all that way just to probe some zebra butt.
Well, they will be as soon as they learn all that our brown starfish have to tell them. :)
I laughed out loud the first time, Snert; but the second post, well, it's just sounding a bit obsessive...
I don't think they would want to probe Snert. He'd probably gross them out.
There are people who still believe that we are the crowning glory of Darwinian evolution in the universe. Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell come to mind. Oh and of course, some babbler named Snert, too. You're in good company, Snert.
I laughed out loud the first time, Snert; but the second post, well, it's just sounding a bit obsessive...
I should have just left it, but I guess having it taken seriously caught me by surprise.
We don't take Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell seriously. Why should we think any differently of you, Snert?
Not to probe the animals' asses. Also, if the zoo were 142 light years away, I think people especially wouldn't travel all that way just to probe some zebra butt.
The Kids in the Hall raised a similar point. Why would aliens go to all that trouble just for a few anal probes? All they learned was that one subject in ten didn't seem to mind.
Robertson Advocates Stoning for UFO Enthusiasts
Armchair UFO debunkers have quite a few things in common with creationists. They are rarely if ever objective when preaching their armchair debunkery.
Shoot Them Down! - The Flying Saucer Air Wars Of 1952
"Wull, why don't they land on the White House lawn, billy bob?
You're assuming that the US couldn't compete with Japan and Germany without advanced technology from the heavens. Apparently it's not so hard to compete with ordinary earthlings using technology developed using Keynesian-socialist methods right there in the US. TVs and radios computers, US satellite tech, GPS, modern oil well drilling technology, metallurgical and medical advances etc in the US were a result of basic research and much of it subsidized by US taxpayers and handed off to a few hundred rich families, private enterprise and "the market."
They would have looked really stupid not being able to compete in markets which they themselves created. And still they had stiff competition from Japan and Germany. But there is another reason why Japan's economy spiraled after 1987, and it had nothing to do with not being able to compete with American industries and technology and everything to do with the Plaza Accord.
Alas, the armchair debunkery is easily reverse debunked using ordinary grey matter.
If you were to give a library of the most informative science and technology texts to some chimps at the zoo, how long would it take them to invent something useful for them and all of their friends? And would they share it with working class slob-monkeys? What would their motivation be if the rest of the chimps are already pacified with ordinary useless widgets and are servile and obedient?
There is a long history of governments recovering crashed air vehicles of their enemies and studying them in secret to gain military insight and advantage. The problem with revealing super-duper advanced technology to the world is that your enemies would probably use the advanced tech in a military way against you at some point. And there goes your top secret superduper advantage. Best keep it under heavily armed guard at Wright Patterson afb, area 51 or wherever, and create a national security oriented military dictatorship beginning in 1947.
1947? Whoomp there it is! And...
Scientists will be discovering new laws of nature within the next ten or 20 years at CERN lab in Switzerland. Every time a new law of nature has been discovered, there were revolutionary technologies developed as a result. We are actually on the verge of a new age in scientific discovery and technological advancement. New laws of nature? Coincidence?
Pseudo-Science of Anti-Ufology
The common features of these attacks include:
A. A failure to look at the literature that is available about all of these.
B. An unwillingness to recognize that the “specific details of how something is to be done” are very much more important than broad general notions about the laws of physics.
C. An enormous arrogance in thinking that if certain things were true or certain technologies were real, these all-wise pseudo-scientists would know about them. They don’t, so the notions must not be true. None of this is to say that there hasn’t been a lot of pro-UFO garbage published as well. But Ufologists tend to be critical of their own kind. The pseudo-scientific anti-Ufologists never seem to want to critique another debunker no matter how false the claims. They repeat the claims rather than pointing out the fallacies.
Fidel do you watch coast to coast?
Anyway all will be known on december 21 12 and i'm not joking either, I take the mayan prophesies as well as terrence mckenna's modern update of the iching-timewave zero-very seriously.
At some point modern states along with law and order will be rubble and a post civilized hominid will be able to walk into area 51 and get the final answers or interesting questions
Ah! The ol' December 21st, 2012 schtick. I AM aware of that important date for sure. I've read a little about it, and I'm not so sure now that the Mayan prophets have actually predicted an end of the world scenario. They seemed to be concerned about the white people and mankind in general being faced with two different paths of human development at some point in the present time. Duality seems to be a recurring theme for a number of old cultures around the world. I don't know,. Interesting for sure.
Art Bell Hosted Russell Targ(audio only) recently on Coast to Coast AM. Targ is another one who's "out there" so to speak.
deleted
Ah! More of the why?
ufo ALIEN abduction interview with Betty Hill(youtube) 1961
Taken at face value, the evidence for this abduction is remarkable. There is eye witness testimony. There is corroborating RADAR evidence from the US Military. And Carl Sagan's former class mate, Canadian Stanton Friedman, says that the star map created by Betty and Barney Hill is remarkable evidence in itself. Betty says it was not fantasy or illusion. She said it happened.
As far as I can tell, the two people in this famous story fully believed they were telling the truth.
The Zeta Reticuli Incident
by Carl Sagan & Steven Soter
"The Zeta Reticuli Incident" is very provocative. It claims that a map, allegedly shown on board a landed extraterrestrial spacecraft to Betty Hill in 1961, later drawn by her from memory and published in 1966, corresponds well to similar maps of the closest stars resembling the sun based on stellar positions in the 1969 Gliese Catalog of Nearby Stars. The comparison maps were made by Marjorie Fish using a three dimensional physical model and later by a group of Ohio State University students using a presumably more accurate (i.e., less subjective) computer generated projection. The argument rests on how well the maps agree and on the statistical significance of the comparison. ...
Recent announcements from scientific community boost search for extraterrestrial life
Possibly trillions. The universe is bigger than we knew.
Interesting, but in relation to the topic, these extra stars don't really add into the numbers in close proximity to Earth.
No one listened to the NASA press release Thursday am?
NASA-Funded Research Discovers Life Built With Toxic Chemical
Interesting, but in relation to the topic, these extra stars don't really add into the numbers in close proximity to Earth.
I think it's too early to tell. SETI has been searching for 50 years and only really advanced the state of telescope technology in recent years.
One of the parameters of the Drake equation is rate of star formation in the galaxy and the percentage of stars thought to have planets. Based on previous calculations, it was expected that they would find ET within 25 years. I think...?
I think they may have found something already and are keeping mum about it. Just my wild speculation. Keep in mind that they've only just now discovered life forms on this planet that are different from our own.
Unreleased Wikileaks cables refer to UFOs
First 'earth-like' planet discovered, with liquid water, in the 'Goldilocks' zone (not too hot, not too cold).
First 'earth-like' planet discovered, with liquid water, in the 'Goldilocks' zone (not too hot, not too cold).
Knowing that there may be life on Gliese 581g will certainly help me sleep sounder. Thank you LTJ. BTW: I still think The Great Gazoo, at the top of the thread, looks like Steven Harper..maybe we can send him there? Perhaps he's really an alien?!
Alien Rock: The Rock 'n' Roll Extraterrestrial Connection
Haven't read it, but Luckman was on Coast to Coast am. Apparently Luckman is a long time UFO enthusiast and director of the New York Center for Extraterrestrial Research and founder of the Cosmic Majority, an organization that seeks to advance the views of the majority of people living on planet Earth who believe in UFOs. He's very into the late Zecharia Sitchin's writings on ancient astronaut-Earth connection, which I am not very high on myself. Then again who am I to say either way? Apparently the royal family are UFO enthusiasts including Prince William. Apparently Willy, an RAF pilot himself, was seen carrying a copy of Luckman's Alien Rock.
Will Wikileaks reveal anything about UFOs? Assange says there are cables that mention UFOs. I think gradual disclosure has been happening for some time.
I Want to Believe
'Cosmic masters' call for Govt investigation into UFOs
Alien worshippers are urging the Government to admit extraterrestrial life is out there after the release of thousands of secret files on UFO sightings.
The Defence Force released thousands of documents detailing alleged UFO sightings between 1952 and 2009 on Wednesday.
NZ Defence Force releases records concerning the world wide "swamp gas" and even "ball lightning" phenomenon.
1. If aliens have the ability to travel vast distances, then why only land on a restricted US military base...
Okay, they didn't land at a restricted military base - they crashed. As the story goes, U.S. Military officials reported, and in this order,
1. that they'd recovered a crashed saucer at Roswell
2. then the crashed disc wasn't a disc but a project Mogul balloon. Balloons, crashed saucers, whatever. It's really easy for US Air Force officers to confuse weather balloons with crashed UFOs. Happens all the time.
3. and then many years later the balloon story was updated with crash test dummies to explain away the fact that witnesses reported seeing bodies, and one of which was alive after the crash in 1947. But the US Military was not using crash test dummies in 1947 according to various officials. They don't launch crash test dummies with weather balloons very much today, either.
So, who was telling the truth about Roswell? in your opinion, would the accounts of eye witnesses to the event be less credible than U.S. Military reports that changed over the years?
Here is a person who says he knew the pilot who shot down a UFO at Roswell in 1947.
I don't know the answer to that. I think we have to consider the country's politics and past record for cover-ups.
The U.S.A. is a militarized country since 1947 and signing of the National Security Act. The Republic was overthrown with the creation of the NSA and CIA, black budget operations and characterized by an overall lack of accountability and transparency to the American public in general. And they have used fear as a propaganda tool to control American citizens throughout the cold war. Even today Americans live in fear of their government. Americans will tell you that they are lied to all the time by their Government.
What if you are one of a number of high-ranking military generals who basically operate below the radar of Congress, and perhaps one of the mythical "Majestic 12" group alleged to have formed in 1947? Youre thinking along the lines of defense and all things military. The cold war is basically on at that point, and you are ultra-paranoid like the rest of the hawks.
And then you have this "die Glock" silver bullet technology dropped in your lap. It's advanced technology by not just a few decades but perhaps centuries, thousands, or even millions of years more advanced than 1947 technology. What use is it to you at that point in time?
You probably don't want it falling in the hands of the enemy, and in those days it was the Russians and Chinese and communists in general. It's kept under wraps for decades and protected by even more secrecy that the Corona spy satellite, which was well kept secret for over 30 years. There are communist spies everywhere in and out of U.S. Government. That the U.S. military is extremely secretive goes without saying with its 38 levels of security clearance.
10 Famous People Who Believe
Josef Hynek, a respected astronomer, was initially a UFO skeptic. The U.S. Air Force appointed him science consultant to the U.S. Air Force's Project Blue Book to be their official UFO debunker. After serving in that capacity from 1952 to 1969 and personally investigating hundreds of phenomena for which he could find no scientific explanation, Hynek's skepticism eroded. In a Nov. 27, 1978, speech before a U.N. committee Hynek stated, "It is my considered opinion, as a scientist who has devoted many years to its study, that the UFO phenomenon is real and not the creation of disturbed minds." Hynek's greatest contribution is the Center for UFO Studies that he established and which is now a major scientific repository for UFO reports.
I place alien visitations to Earth in the same category as stories and arguments relating to the creation of life and the universe from the design of a supernatural omnipotent being.
I place alien visitations to Earth in the same category as stories and arguments relating to the creation of life and the universe from the design of a supernatural omnipotent being.
Well, sure, because there is a direct connection between shamans and the first religionists of the distant past and what the living have reported witnessing today. It goes without saying.
I do not believe in UFOs.
I do not disbelieve in UFOs.
Like you, SJ, I believe in UFO stories. And some of these stories today are told by some incredibly credible people from the low to higher echelons of society. And like those stories handed down through the ages from stone age people through the Orient and India, and North American aboriginals, the modern day equivalents read like the best science fiction has to offer. Chicken and egg? Like the X-files, there is still no hard physical proof, or no smoking gun in our faces proof positive of visitations from another world. But there is plenty of evidence apparently. I would like to believe, yes I would. Because if true, it would have to be the story of the millenium.
There's no evidence that I'm aware of.
Oh you're definitely wrong about that. It may be circumstantial evidence, but there is: eye witness evidence - physical photographs dating back to the 19th century before there was photoshop and which are not explained away by the experts - there are paintings depicting unknown objects in the sky dating back centuries - there is video taped evidence - and last but not least there is physical radar evidence corroborating certain eye witness testimonials.
People have been executed by the state based on circumstantial evidence and court cases in general won on the circumstantial for lack of evidence supporting the contrary. These people are entirely serious about their claims, SJ.
If you've never been to Tokyo or Kuala Lumpur, or the South Pole, then how do you know they are real places?
It's fantastic...Fidel. There's a great claim being made with an impact far and wide, including on our existence and our entire knowledge. Greater claims require a greater body of proof. This is the reason we shouldn't have faith for very long in any system that executes people on circumstantial evidence. We don't keep 'a little' faith with this practice...we completely reject it and say that such a system needs replacing. With UFO theories, alien visitations and what not, before long we should similarly find ourselves without faith, and in desperate need to change the conversation to something else, simply as a result of matching the important consequences being discussed against the quality, or absurdity as it were, of the evidence.
I couldn't have written a better reply.
Yes, accountability and transparency in government is what's needed here. We know this is true by observing the corrupt financial system and their muscle, NATO, and how they operate above international law.
I don't know about you, but I tend to want to believe the many ordinary people and their evidence over that of the denialism of the most secretive governments in history and their vicious toadies in Canada, U.K., France etc. European Parliaments did acknowledge and condemn the cold war era Gladio terrorism by 1991 while the ringleader nation denied, denied, and denied some more. Yes they reacted to it.
And the U.S. Military dictatorship has told a number of lies, and each incompatible with the official lies before it about UFOs since 1947, which was also the same year that the U.S. republic was overthrown and replaced with a militarized government with signing of the National Security Act and creation of the CIA and NSA. And our governments went on to embrace war criminals and welcomed them in to the English-speaking countries and West Germany where Himmler's SS was reconstructed to spy on our WW II allies, the Soviets for decades.
You've identified the problem, S.J. It is an overall lack of transparancy and accountability to the public in general since at least WW II. IOWs, our democracy is a sham. What we have is an illusion of democracy and not the real McCoy by a long shot. And I want to thank you for underscoring that basic truth for us. The truth isn't out there - it's right here in this thread.
The glasnost is half full.
But I tend to disregard out of hand flying saucers, alien abductions and accounts of strange looking things with conical heads. And it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who indicates by exclusion to having no sense of the marketing gimmicks at work, that detecting the presence of an industry with its many spin offs requires a little more original imagination perhaps?
But I tend to disregard out of hand flying saucers, alien abductions and accounts of strange looking things with conical heads. And it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who indicates by exclusion to having no sense of the marketing gimmicks at work, that detecting the presence of an industry with its many spin offs requires a little more original imagination perhaps?
I believe your associating the economic desperation of millions of poor and unemployed Americans and other countries nationals with that of the UFO phenomenon while interesting is somewhat meaningless to the topic at hand, S.J. There is nothing that isn't wide open to marketing in a capitalist system including the topic of discussion. So what else is new?
But what you are trying to say about the matter, that all UFO reports are marketing gimmicks for T-shirt business types etc, is called a fallacious argument and affirmation of the consequent. It's like proposing that because all dogs die, like all political hawks on the right must eventually die, then surely all political hawks on the right are dogs. We can agree with that proposition all we like, but it makes neither semantic nor logical sense. It's a meaningless statement for which there is no meaningful reply.
You seem to be in agreement with the notion that a vicious empire has lied constantly to the world public about a wide range of issues affecting global warming, and peace and prosperity in general.
And yet you are basically on side with those same lyingest liars of the century when it comes to official government lies concerning UFOs, just so you realize. And I have not concluded that you are a political hawk, because it would be a feeble attempt to use affirmation of the consequent similarly.
It would be better if I associated your extreme point of view, or that of your disbelief in UFOs period and that all eye witnesses to the UFO phenomenon world wide are deluded or insane, with that of Carl Sagan who, like you, said that extrordinary claims require extrordinary proof and say nothing of Sagan's mild criticism of Frank Drake's equation concerning a higher than Drakean likelihood that the universe and even our own galaxy is teeming with highly evolved intelligent life. And that's because I think you are mainly interested in eye-balling the hard physical proof side of things and not so interested in the meta discussion of what is considerable evidence for. And that is a valid point of view imo. And there exists a copious amount of physical evidence for debunkerists to debunk and can prolly use all the help they can get.
We don't know what the truth is about UFOs except that the US Military Government has lied to the public concerning their own employees' and citizens' reports concerning UFOs. And the official lies that change from decade to decade can be checked against previous US Gov't lies with respect to the same sightings and eye witness reports. Who is reponsible for authorizing the re-writing of these lies, you ask? That's a good question and glad I mentioned it. And in true NSA-CIA fashion, their idea of transparency in government is to declassify official documents decades after the fact with anywhere from 10 to 90 percent of a given declassified CIA report blacked-out. S.J, what does blacking out information that is 60 years old have to do with transparency and accountability to the public? There is perhaps one eye witness to the Roswell incident still alive. And I could be wrong about that.
Meanwhile other Western world governments have come clean with the public WRT UFO reports, and most of them dating back to some specific year between 1946 and 1948 strangely enough. What do you think about that coincidence, SJ? What else do you think the US Military Gov't has locked away from public access in archives until such time as it no longer represents a threat to U.S. "national security"?
Faster than a speeding bullet
The bogey has the classic configuration, disc-shaped, dome on top, right out of the 1950s playbook. It appears to be metallic and solid. It criss-crosses in front of the formation before it arrives, it darts in around them, it trails the planes, it races from jet altitude all the way down to the deck in the blink of an eye, like a yo-yo.
In short, this thing zips along at speeds so fast and sick it was discovered by accident. This leaves us with myriad possibilities....
This is impossible, some scientists will say.
U.K. picks up Chilean story
Agreed.
And so what do you make of the Chilean government's physical evidence for UFO's described in the article above? Shall we reject it completely on pseudo-scientific inquisitional grounds demanding we not bother looking through Galileo's telescope, because Galileo Galilei is surely proposing heresy? Why should I jump to conclusions and reject this physical evidence?
It's always flying saucers isn't it? I mean, 60 years or more of alien aircraft spotting, and they're still driving saucers. Have they reached the technological limits with their airframe design or what? Or is it because the saucer shape represents the most practical aeronautical design devised by the aliens, up to now at least, for interstellar voyage in the vacuum of space? You'd think that any alien civilization with the technology to make something hover and zip around at incredible speeds in our atmosphere, all without any visible sign of a propulsion system, could do the same thing with a brick shaped design. Alas, no. They always show up in vehicles that haven't visibly changed in shape since the days of Buck Rogers.
That's simply not true, SJ. If you look into it, objects of a wide range of sizes and shapes have been sighted around the world - objects from a few metres typical of, say, a landing craft to objects more than a mile long and similar to, let's say, a command module or carrier ship. The US Navy has floated large aircraft carrier ships on the seven seas since WW II for example. Photographs of UFOs are recorded since the 19th century and before there was Photoshop and the internet.
It's always flying saucers isn't it? I mean, 60 years or more of alien aircraft spotting, and they're still driving saucers. Have they reached the technological limits with their airframe design or what?
Are you suggesting that UFO's are dogs down the quarter-mile? Perhaps aliens don't do capitalism? Perhaps they don't do built-in obsolescence? It could be that they build vehicles to last a life time? I dunno, but I think imagination is all that's lacking here. This could be future tech we're speculating on. What are the limits, really? Because in the 19th century, wild ideas like trans-oceanic steamship crossings were laughed at by leading Royal astronomers at the time. Who's laughing now?
I mean, our airplanes have all had wings since before the Wrighteous brothers sang Unchained Melody. And even before that. Why doesn't Boeing or Bombardier design planes without wings? Or sans wings and one that floats in mid-air without making a sound? Or how about a plane without wings, no sound, and flies through both air and water with negligible drag coefficient? That would represent significant design change, don't you think? Never mind settling for racing stripes, or CD players or WiFi ports in the dash, I want one of those things that gets a gazillion kilometres to the litre of whatever in heck fuel they use. And I won't even care if there isn't a rear view mirror, or that the seats aren't leopard skin.
We haven't even reached the tech limits of our own spacecraft designs according to the experts. A nuclear ramjet was ground-tested as part of NASA's Pluto program. A range of nuclear rockets were successfully tested during the NERVA (Nuclear Engines for Rocket Vehicle Applications) program.
Canadian nuclear physicist Stanton Friedman wrote:
We could have spacecraft capable of travelling millions of miles per hour. The problem with travelling at such high speeds is more one of human biology than technological. A trained astronaut can't stand a force of 30 G's for longer than one second at a time. Obviously if the object in the Chilean videos is piloted by someone, they can't be human. Could it be some sort of military UAV? I think it's possible but not likely.
What are you talkin' aboot, future boy? Buck Rogers is 25th century whereas this 1870 photo pre-dates Bucky by centuries.
And, what do you make of the recent physical evidence in Chile? As much as I hate to consider it, it might be that neither Toronto nor Vancouver is the centre of the universe. It's heresy for sure.
If you were a betting man Fidel, in which scenario do you think the better odds reside? A group of people unknown to one another captured similar images on video of the same thing, that being an alien visitation to Earth - and how convenient, at an airshow! - orrrr, a few people decided to pool together on a hoax. Let's see what our conspiracy theory ridden minds, put to better use, tells us on this one.
If you were a betting man Fidel, in which scenario do you think the better odds reside? A group of people unknown to one another captured similar images on video of the same thing, that being an alien visitation to Earth - and how convenient, at an airshow! - orrrr, a few people decided to pool together on a hoax. Let's see what our conspiracy theory ridden minds, put to better use, tell us on this one.
Well yes it seems to me that you are the one proposing conspiracy theories now. Seven pranksters conspired to film the same speeding object from different vantage points? That shouldn't be difficult for the experts to check if they haven't already.
And upon further analysis, the videos might even corroborate each of the others. Imagine that - seven Abraham Zapruders on-site and all filming the scene of the crime.
"At this time, this incident cannot be scientifically explained," Bermúdez wrote in a recent email. "As agreed by those who have studied the videos, we can affirm that there is an unidentified aerial object present. We do not know what it is or where it came from."
Hmmm? Sounds like another X file to me.
Well I guess that settles it, a UAO, just as we suspected. But I'd like to test another theory now. What do you make of this?
lol!
Tell us, Slumber J. if you were a betting man, would you put a dime on Gordon Cooper and his anarcho-astronaut friends, or would you be liking what Uncle Sam says about the issue? Say no more because I already know the answer to that one.
CFL