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I have a friend who was a tv journalist in Cuba for many years. He told me something over the weekend which surprised me.
He said that since January 1, 1959, no one has ever been acquitted of police-laid charges in Cuba.
I said I found that hard to believe. He told me that I could scour the Official paper, Granma, or any other paper of my chosing, and I would not find a single acquittal reported. Ever.
But here at Babble, we have several followers of the Cuban government position on EVERYTHING. Whenever I post anything critical of Cuba, (or even realistic about it!) they JUMP at the chance to defend Fidel and Cuba.
So, I am sure they can find ONE SINGLE ACQUITTAL since 1959!
Over to you, Gang of Several.
Perhaps we should check out the non-Communist, actually Western client regimes and see whether it is different there. Check out Egypt, Tunisia, Jordan if ever anyone charged by the police -wrongly or rightly- can see an acquittal.
It is the singling out of Cuba as Communist and therefore "see what happens there" that irks fair-minded people who in turn blame YOU for your tunnel vision. Soetimes you sound like FOX News, Jeff.
If you do a google search of any of those countries paired with the word 'acquitted', you'll get quite a few stories in which people have been acquitted in those countries.
eta: If you google cuba acquitted, you do get some hits, but they mostly appear to be stories in which people were convicted on other charges.
[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Stephen Gordon ]
I know it is inconvenient to discuss Cuba particularly.
And you may be right that it's justice system is no worse than Tunisia's.
But you see, some people actually think Cuba is a beacon to be followed. They get mad when you criticise it.
But now you say it may be sorta like Paraguay. That's not much of a defence, is it?
Excelent! You are making progress. You managed to discuss the point and not call Sidra a Bolshie for daring to raise possiblilities that might adjust the standard of assessment.
[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Let's try to stay on the question of Cuba's justice system. Being snide is simply a way of diverting attention from the topic.
Has one single person been acquitted there of a police laid charge in the last fifty years?
Why Cuba ?
Because it is Communist.
Sorry, please carry on!
Well the police in Japan must be doing just a bang up job of ensuring that all the people they nail are guilty, before they take them to court, that is all I can say about that.
So far, we have three persons acquitted in 1994.
Here's the actual quote:
The IACHR has been informed that the trials of persons arrested during the August 5 disturbances were held in early September 1994. Apparently in one single case eleven persons were tried, the majority of them being young people between 18 and 25 years of age, all charged with "public disorder". Four of them were sentenced to one year's imprisonment, two to eight months and two to six months, while three were acquitted. According to the judgement, their participation in the disturbances, during which a group of persons began to shout anti-revolutionary slogans, was proven. The court also based its decision on the fact that the accused were arrested on the spot without proving they were there for any lawful purpose, and that they were young persons of deviant social behavior.
So, everyone was jailed for shouting anti-revolutionary slogans, and three were acquitted eventually.
I presume the fact that this happened 11 years ago is relevant to the actual operation of the Cuban criminal justice system. Can anyone find any more recent examples?
By the way, if 99% of Cubans charged are found guilty, there would be at least hundreds found not guilty every year.
So, has the Cuban press reported any such since 1994?
Originally posted by jeff house:[b]But you see, some people actually think Cuba is a beacon to be followed. They get mad when you criticise it.[/b]
We don't get "mad", Jeff. I think babblers like to learn about Cuba. There is very little we have to you and others, "Let's not discuss this about Cuba." People want to know about Cuba, and I think they find in general that they are astounded with the diff between what our Liberal newspapers say about Cuba and what is the truth, dirt and grime and all.
I think you're very focused on Cuba and somewhat of an expert compared to about 90 percent of Canadians and Americans, Jeff. And I won't get angry over your comments about Cuba this time either.
So, what's the acquittal rate in Port Au Prince just 50 miles away from Cuba ?. San Salvador ? Jeff, they've got kids sharing unbelievably cramped jail cells with adult prisoners just a few days drive from Texas. Is that the alternative for Cuba ?. I mean, at some point you've got to start pointing to examples to follow yourself if you desire for Cuban's to renounce the revolution and begin demanding the same system they fought tooth and nail to overthrow in 1959. What was the acquital rate for Batista's secret police ?. And it [i]is[/i] relevant, because that's what they remember of the U.S.-backed mafia regime in Havana.
Originally posted by jeff house:[b]Hmmm.
So far, we have three persons acquitted in 1994.[/b]
So far, we have three persons acquitted in 1994.[/b]
If we think back, these protests would have taken place around the start of the especially difficult economic period in Cuba when trade with the former USSR was stopped and criminal privatization schemes with the help of Harvard Business School geniuses, American magnates, USAID etc was on a roll in Russia. You certainly know where to go for the soft underbelly, Jeff. Hey, I'll bet there were a few additional Iraqi's willing to turn on Saddam at some point during the ten year-long U.S.-led medieval siege on their desert nation. Of course, that was the intended effect, the starvation of between 1.2 and 1.4 million Iraqi men, women and mostly children according to UNICEF. I'd imagine it's a little less fertile in Iraq than Cuba though - a matter of geography which I'm sure the policy analysts were aware of at the time, we can be sure. I find the whole notion of trade siege a despicable foreign policy, don't you, Jeff ?. If a system is bound to fail all on its own, then why the need for multi-trillion dollar taxpayer-funded cold wars followed by outdated cold war embargo on a tiny island nation 90 miles away ?. Vindictive bastards all.
Originally posted by jeff house:[b]Has one single person been acquitted there of a police laid charge in the last fifty years?[/b]
Now kindly bugger off with your stupid scavenger hunt.
I'm not sure that rate of acquittals represents a valid measure of a country's freedom. I'm including a link from Amnesty International's 2003 report on [url=http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/cub-summary-eng]Cuba[/url]. Feel free to check the site for the latest on any other country you can name, including the US. They're all there.
I agree it is not.
What is at issue here is Jeff House's spurious playing with the facts so that the conform to his particular political views.
In other circles its called superstitious and hysterical ranting and raving. Here we can call it "consistent errors" to be polite:
[url=http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/biscetsentenced.html]Anti abortion activist aquitted[/url]
In a separate trial of two other government opponents, Fermin Scull Zulueta was sentenced to one year for public disorder for displaying a sign that read "Justice for the Murdered Children" during a protest, while [b]Eduardo Diaz Fleitas was acquitted[/b] of the charge. They faced 4Ѕ year terms.
Wasn't Posada originally aquitted.
Originally posted by jeff house:[b] Has one single person been acquitted there of a police laid charge in the last fifty years?[/b]
You asked us not to make snide remarks, and so I am simply replying to your concern about law and order in Cuba, Jeff. Hee, Fidel's been in power almost as long as the Tory stranglehold on power in Ontario. But it'll take some beating the Liberal record for autocratic rule in Ottawa.
[url=http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKtrafficante.htm][b]Santos Trafficante, Charlie Luciano, Meyer Lansky, Frank Costello[/b][/url] and several more noteworthy Cubans and temporary residents were acquitted [i]48 years ago[/i] by Fidel Castro himself and given one-way tickets into the arms of the F.B.I in Miami who, incidentally, turned a blind eye in favour of anti-communist witch hunts.
Viva la partido de socialista!
Viva la revolucion!
[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]
Originally posted by jeff house:[b]Being snide is simply a way of diverting attention from the topic. [/b]
Now, now. The tone of your very first post was pretty snide as well. It's probably best not to set a snide tone in the opening post if you prefer not to see it in the rest of the thread.
Why should we give any credence to unsubstantiated hearsay from a Cuban emigré?
This sort of rumour-mongering for no other purpose than anti-communist provocation would be denounced as trolling if it were done by a newcomer to babble. But Jeff House gets away with it because.... why, exactly?
As to the truth of this drive-by slander, [url=http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/IACHR.html]this anti-Cuban propaganda site[/url], for example, refers to one particular case in 1994 where 11 persons were tried for "public disorder" of whom three were acquitted. This proves that Mr. House's source is a bare-faced liar.
By the way, the acquittal rate in imperialist-friendly Japan is less than 1%. I don't say that because some anonymous stooge allegedly told me that, but because there is [url=http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=259848]actual credible authority[/url] for the statement.
Doing that still feels good