Homeopathy offers fake cures for whatever ails you
Homeopathy has proven to be one of the more active participants these days, capitalizing (in the truest sense of the word) on people's worries of H1N1 vaccine safety. Thanks to terrifying cases like Desiree Jennings (who, I suspect, is probably single-handedly responsible for thousands of people refusing the vaccine), and the mainstream media (which has been publishing irresponsible, demonstrably false, or insipid flu coverage), homeopathy has reared its heavily-diluted head once again. And why not? If people get scared when they hear, "The vaccine has formaldehyde! Mercury! Aluminum Phosphate! Buzz-words! Autism! WALK BACKWARDS!", then it seems logical that that same person will be calmed when they hear "homeopathy has no side effects!"
Well, this is mainly true. However, I feel it important to point out that it's nearly impossible to have any side effect from homeopathy, aside from drowning. For those unfamiliar with its history, homeopathy is a pre-scientific clinical modality that says you can dilute something in water past the point at which there is any active ingredient left, and that you can heal with the idea of 'like-cures-like' (called, the "Law Of Similars"). Therefore, the homeopathic remedy for sneezing would be diluted black pepper, and the remedy for sleeping problems would be diluted caffeine....the substance is diluted so much that you don't get the original ingredient anyway. In the paraphrased words of James Randi, "You take a substance that is causing the problem, and then you don't do that." It was invented in 1796 by German physician Samuel Hahnemann, as a safe alternative to conventional medicines of the day....you know, when people were swallowing silver, mercury and nickel while drilling holes in their head to balance their humors. Compared to those options, I'd take a glass of funny-tasting water any day.
Read it here.
I don't imagine you will get much argument here. I don't think anyone has come out in support of homeopathy.
I know that participants in the H1N1 threads have linked to CAM practitioners who not only promote homeopathy but profit from it handsomely. I'd characterize that as supporting homeopathy.
OK, I will bite. We have had this topic before.
How do you know it does not work for some?
Dude, it's water. Unless your main problem is dehydration, it's pointless.
TB said: I know that participants in the H1N1 threads have linked to CAM practitioners who not only promote homeopathy but profit from it handsomely. I'd characterize that as supporting homeopathy.
I guess I don't see it that way. For instance, I was looking up exzema the other night. One of my kids suffers quite badly from exzema on her arms. I found a site with some excellent information on dietary triggers, and also some pretty good pointers about what to avoid in terms of detergents and perfumes and cosmetics. Also on that site was the homeopathic "cure", which I simply ignored. We are implementing some of the natural ideas though and they seem to be easing some of the symptoms.
If I linked to that site for the good information, does that necessarily mean I support homeopathy?
Not if you qualify it in your post. However, if you don't then you leave your meaning up for grabs.
:) So if I post a link to that site, and say something like hey I found out some excellent diet tips here for reducing the symptoms of eczema in kids - I then have to qualify it by saying oh ya and by the way there is also some information on that site regarding a homeopathic treatment which I would just like to point out that I specifically do not support? Seems a bit cumbersome.
Maybe so. But I think we can agree that this wasn't exactly the tone with which the homeopathy-related links were given with, can't we?
I only quite recently learned what homeopathy actually is. I had been under the impression that it was a synonym for alternative medicine or home remedies. I wonder how common such confusion is. I think homeopathy is bollocks but there's plenty of other alternative medicines that I wholeheartedly support.
G.Pie that was kind of what I was getting at. Unfortunately, people do mix up homeopathy with alternative healing methods, and it all becomes this mixed up jumbo of crystals and magic and woo woo that everyone gets so up in arms about. For the record, I totally believe in healing through nutrition, and I like to keep a VERY open mind when it comes to alternative and natural cures (having witnessed some of them work). I don't, however, believe in homeopathy.
Maybe one day I will be proved wrong on that one, who knows?
And I went through the flu threads and I couldn't find where any of our posters was specifically promoting homeopathy as a cure for anything. Not to say it didn't happen, but I couldn't find it.
Agreed, Polly B. I don't recall any babbler ever promoting homeopathy.
I do.
One example of many.
I thought that was chiropracty that you liked, Unionist.
ETA: Oh, I see I seriously misread Unionist's comment. I though he was saying (in jest) "I do [promote homeopathy]." Sorry.
I do.
One example of many.
That was from 2007. I guess I never looked back that far. I stand corrected. :)
I actually enjoy popping homeopathic placebos while a glorified masseur is misaligning my spinal column.
This was my turning point with homeopathy.
I do.
One example of many.
That was from 2007. I guess I never looked back that far. I stand corrected. :)
I just read this thread and stand by my statement. I didn't see anybody (N.R.KISSED or anybody else) defending homeopathy.
NR Kissed vociferously did, and then retracted.
Lively thread! I enjoyed seeing that again.
NR Kissed vociferously did, and then retracted.
Lively thread! I enjoyed seeing that again.
I didn't read his posts that way. I thought it was more along the lines of yes "Yes, homeopathy isn't scientific. Much of medicine isn't."
Could be - it was hard to tell among all the ranting. I think some of us were pushing his buttons.
I read the paper describing that particular clinical trial. Results were inconclusive because the placebo effect was HUGE!
Ya, even in that thread it's hard to find where any babbler actually tries to convince someone that homeopathy might cure them of anything. And that goes back a couple of years == I was looking in the flu threads for TB's examples.
NR Kissed expressly stated:
"I am not even advocating homeopathy I am just challenging some of the hyperbole suggesting it is overwhelmingly dangerous. I am also pointing out there are any number of "conventional" medical treatments and practices that are lacking in scientific validation(let's talk ECT. There is also a great deal of quackery and non-sense coming from physicians, I constantly hear it from my clients."
N.R.KISSED is a babbler who contributes much wisdom to this board (IMO). He writes subtly. He doesn't peddle products. But his thesis in that thread, as in many others, is that opposition to homeopathy is wrongheaded, and that there is no reason to choose "offiicial" medicine over homeopathy. When he challenges the "hyperbole suggesting it is overwhelmingly dangerous", he is in fact attacking a straw man. The only danger in homeopathy is that it will make you stupid and prevent you from getting proper treatment.
Here are some of his snippets:
Psychiatry costs the public health system billions and has had a negative impact on users, can the same claim be made against homeopathy? [NOTE: No one was defending psychiatry!] [...]
The implicit message in challenging the validity of homeopathy is that it is somehow dangerous. [NOTE: No one said that.] [...]
The question also arises even if something is not scientifically validated can it still have health benefits. [...]
Even the presently maligned homeopathy does have some empirical support depending on whose claims you wish to privilege. [...]
Then we have this:
Shows the importance of strengthening math education in our schools...
I hate the term "passive-aggressive", but I think it might actually apply to the above defence of homeopathy.
Then there's this:
It seems a little simplistic to see the world as just consisting of a latice of different types of molecules.
!!!
Whew.
This was my response to the "harmlessness" of homeopathy (because N.R.KISSED wisely didn't exaggerate its curative powers):
Homeopathy is as harmless as sitting in a rocking chair reading a newspaper.
Unless you're missing your colonoscopy appointment at that very moment.
Homeopathy is as harmless as praying to God to cure you.
Unless you are doing so in preference to seeking medical advice.
Homeopathy won't kill you. Neither will religion. Nor will the Tooth Fairy. But they will all make you a lesser (and in some cases sicker) human being.
huh!
And I said
What with all the quack links infesting babble these days, it bears repeating.
All the same, how do you know it does not work for some? Some feel better by believing in special places in hell, why is it inconceivable for some to feel better after some homeopathy? Hope by its very nature can be a very fragile state, but it can also be a very powerfull motivator.
I believe the great majority of sicknesses are cured by ones own body and mind. A lot of medications are probably just like reminder notices for the body and/or mind to get moving. If I understand it right, a vaccine not realy a medicine but just a trigger to activate the bodies own defences. Is it not posible that Homeopathy could work the same way?
If so called progressives close themselfs to unproven ideas then one can have little hope that the NDP will ever form the government. It is about as unproven as an alternative as homeopathy. Yet you sell it as the best solution to our political malady.
All the same, how do you know it does not work for some? Some feel better by believing in special places in hell, why is it inconceivable for some to feel better after some homeopathy?
You're right; it's called the placebo effect.
There's also sort of a pre-placebo effect where the benefit comes in merely addressing the problem. Getting on the phone, making that appointment, doing your own wikipedia research, setting relief as your goal, etc. I don't know what this phenomenon is called.
There's the subject-expectancy effect, where a person anticipates a certain result and unconsciously manipulates an experiment to get that expected result (that sounds a lot like the placebo effect, though, really).
N.R.KISSED is a babbler who contributes much wisdom to this board (IMO). He writes subtly. He doesn't peddle products. But his thesis in that thread, as in many others, is that opposition to homeopathy is wrongheaded, and that there is no reason to choose "offiicial" medicine over homeopathy. When he challenges the "hyperbole suggesting it is overwhelmingly dangerous", he is in fact attacking a straw man. The only danger in homeopathy is that it will make you stupid and prevent you from getting proper treatment.
I am not sure it's so stupid to question "proper treatment"
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a4yV1nYxCGoA&pos=10
“At the very same time Pfizer was in our office negotiating and resolving the allegations of criminal conduct in 2004, Pfizer was itself in its other operations violating those very same laws,” Loucks, 54, says. “They’ve repeatedly marketed drugs for things they knew they couldn’t demonstrate efficacy for. That’s clearly criminal.”
The penalties Pfizer paid this year for promoting Bextra off-label were the latest chapter in the drug’s benighted history. The FDA found Bextra to be so dangerous that Pfizer took it off the market for all uses in 2005.
Across the U.S., pharmaceutical companies have been pleading guilty to criminal charges or paying penalties in civil cases when the U.S. Department of Justice finds that they deceptively marketed drugs for unapproved uses, putting millions of people at risk of chest infections, heart attacks, suicidal impulses or death.
$7 Billion in Penalties
My understanding of homeopathy is that it tries to induce a healing reaction from your body by introducing small amounts of whatever ails ye, or something mimicking whatever ails ye. I don't really know how herbal and floral extracts can do this, but homeopaths consider it an art or science of some kind, so they have their own theories about it. Since we know the power of many natural substances, this seems plausible to me. My mother has often sought homeopathic treatment and has seemed satisfied with the results much, if not most, of the time. She is told often after a treatment that at first she will feel crappy and then she will feel better, much like how we react to vaccine.
I'll admit I don't fully believe in its efficacy, but I am on record as having used a homeopathic nasal gel for allergies, which I think works, although for me to fully know, I would need to be able to anticipate allergy season a bit and start the treatment 10 - 14 days beforehand, which is what is recommended.
I think homeopaths believe in what they are doing and most are not in the business to fleece people. I further believe that treatments that genuinely don't work -- for anyone -- don't last on the market. I'm tempted to use the "that many people can't be wrong" logic; however, I know that a significant number of Americans and Canadians believe that 110-storey office towers can collapse utterly and completely into themselves after 1 hour of upper segment floor fires, so I guess that logic cannot be used any more.
:)
:D :D :D
And I said
Indeed.
In January 2009, Indianapolis-based Lilly, the largest U.S. psychiatric drug maker, pleaded guilty and paid $1.42 billion in fines and penalties to settle charges that it had for at least four years illegally marketed Zyprexa, a drug approved for the treatment of schizophrenia, as a remedy for dementia in elderly patients.
In five company-sponsored clinical trials, 31 people out of 1,184 participants died after taking the drug for dementia -- twice the death rate for those taking a placebo. Those findings were reported in an October 2005 article in the Journal of the American Medical Association.
That was not a scam. It was lousy therapeutics.
I think it's important to note that opposition to homeopathy as fakery does not mean that one has to defend and whitewash every act of gross negligence committed by profit-hungry pharmaceutical corporations. Nor do accounts of such gross negligence lend any shred of credibility to homeopathy.
That was not a scam. It was lousy therapeutics.
LOL.
I so wish everybody saw it this way because usually when I criticize psychiatry somebody'll throw Lisa MacPherson up in my face. So the choices seem to be pro-Pharma, mental illness is neurological ... OR ... rabid Scientologist. Not much room there for the truth.
I think it's important to note that opposition to homeopathy as fakery does not mean that one has to defend and whitewash every act of gross negligence committed by profit-hungry pharmaceutical corporations.
I don't whitewash anything. But everybody in the medical community knows that pharmaceutical companies slant things in their favour. Yet there were doctors who prescribed Zyprexa to old people in the absence of evidence that favoured this practice. That's what I mean by lousy therapeutics.
And if you're defending alternative medicine on the basis of heavy fines levied against pharmaceutical companies for their misdeeds, the reason this doesn't happen to homeopathists is two-fold: one, they're unregulated; two, their stuff is water, so it does no harm. Doesn't do any good either (unless you're thirsty).
And if you're defending alternative medicine on the basis of heavy fines levied against pharmaceutical companies for their misdeeds, the reason this doesn't happen to homeopathists is two-fold: one, they're unregulated; two, their stuff is water, so it does no harm. Doesn't do any good either (unless you're thirsty).
I don't believe in homeopathy, so I don't attempt to defend it. I know there are other alternatives to doctor/pharmacy based medicines though, and these are what I term alternative medicine and this is what I continue to believe in and promote. I posted this article because the often repeated argument here is that western scientific medicine is the best option due to the rigorous scientific methods used to develop and test the wonder drugs, and the years of double blind studies and peer reviewed reports and white lab coats and efficacy reports and so on.
Apparently the drug companies paid out billions in fines for ignoring their own research in order to maximize profits. So who do you trust?
You misunderstood my post, Sineed, likely because I didn't make it clear - but I wasn't addressing you at all. I was addressing those who respond to attacks on homeopathy by saying, "well look at how bad official medicine is". I fully agree with your last post.
I posted this article because the often repeated argument here is that western scientific medicine is the best option due to the rigorous scientific methods used to develop and test the wonder drugs, and the years of double blind studies and peer reviewed reports and white lab coats and efficacy reports and so on.
Apparently the drug companies paid out billions in fines for ignoring their own research in order to maximize profits. So who do you trust?
For sure, you can't trust the drug companies. They're at about the same morality level as cigarette companies IMO.
Calling scientific method "western" isn't quite accurate; many cultures around the world contributed to it. At one time, the top medical people in the world were Islamic scholars, f'r instance.
The trouble with scientific method is how it is mis-used by people with ulterior agendas.
Unionist: no worries!
I think Unionists comment above was directed at me, because I "responded to an attack on homeopathy by saying well look at how bad official medicine is" by posting that article. And actually that wasn't my reasoning, as I pointed out. Go ahead and attack homeopathy all ya want, I am not a believer.
I am on the fence generally, about "official" medicine. I don't take any of it any more, but I do see my doctor every once in a long while. When you hear about the billions of dollars being paid out in fines make me a little nervous about trusting Merck with my health.
In the long run, given the choice between pharmaceuticals and homeopathy, I think I just might choose homeopathy.
As Sineed pointed out, at least it does no harm and might even help if you're a wee bit thirsty.
My Dr. prescribed meds however, came with this attached. May cause:
Whew, sure beats arthritis pain.
That's nothing, Polly B. Some of the meds I used to be on listed death as a possible side effect.
That's nothing, Polly B. Some of the meds I used to be on listed death as a possible side effect.
Jeeez.
Homeopathy is as harmless as sitting in a rocking chair reading a newspaper.
Unless you're missing your colonoscopy appointment at that very moment.
Homeopathy is as harmless as praying to God to cure you.
Unless you are doing so in preference to seeking medical advice.
Homeopathy won't kill you. Neither will religion. Nor will the Tooth Fairy. But they will all make you a lesser (and in some cases sicker) human being.
I do not mind you disagreeing with my views and making light of it but when you judge people with different views as being lesser human beings, then you are forgetting the reason why so many of your relatives got killed in the second world war.
I think he meant "dumber."
let us hope so.
Guaranteed.
Actually Bubbles, I meant that belief in phantoms will make you less independent, less inquiring, less thoughtful. But thanks for the reminder of why my relatives died during the war.
I'm no homeapathy (nor any apathy). People should take nutrition and exercise more seriously. The message needs to get out and it's kind of being obscurred.
eta: Don't rely on Big Gov for your health.
eta: Pharma killed me. Pharma free for 5 years.
eta: Pharma killed me. Pharma free for 5 years.
I feel like I should be introducting myself. My name is Polly B. and I haven't touched pharma for seven months. And I feel great. Better, actually, than I have felt since that doctor appointment I went to in my thirties where......
Oh, okay.
Hi, I'm G. Pie. I threw out my drugs in April or May sometime. I lost 25 pounds without even trying and am feeling fantastic.
Oh, okay.
Hi, I'm G. Pie. I threw out my drugs in April or May sometime. I lost 25 pounds without even trying and am feeling fantastic.
That rocks G.Pie and I am totally happy for you!
Sweet! Good to hear Polly B and G Pie. And I'll lay down the caveat right away that I'm not against science just the way that it's administered.
The science helped to save me.
Warmest congratulations to all above who have announced that they are now drug-free. If all Canadians would keep their money in their pockets and the pills out of their system this might be a great and healthy country again.
Regarding my own comments on homeopathy - five months ago I made it clear in this thread
http://rabble.ca/babble/humanities-science/25-billion-spent-no-alternati...
that I was only a fan of nutrition, and encouraged awareness of dangers of meds.
Comments in response had nothing to do with what I had said and cast me in a woo light. In this and related subsequent threads, one poster mentioned the Inquisition, another pretended to be God, and another mentioned a therapy I never said I knew anthing about, attacked me for believing in it and tried to psychoanalyze my reaction to my mother's death. It was bizarre.
One day I hope that individuals who attack the sensible nutritional approach to health - not far off from our Canada Food Rules, really - will come to their senses and claim they *always knew* nutrition was the way.
And the amazing part is that none of it was unprovoked!
I am the Timebandit, I rarely take anything other than the odd ibuprofen. I'm a strong believer in a healthy diet and exercise - I am a regular fit freak between the running and the martial arts and the biking and the walking places. Shockingly healthy in every way.
If it weren't for heavy duty antibiotics, I'd have died of pneumonia in 1991.
Shades of gray, folks, shades of gray.
TB, I think we were talking more of chronic illnesses here. Things that have been being treated by more and more pharmaceuticals instead of the much simple and more natural method of removing the bad shit from your daily table and allowing your body to cure itself.
Your lifestyle is likely why you are shockingly healthy in every way. That's great :)
No one has been advocating a return to pre-antibiotic days.
My point is that yes, "Big Pharma" does some bad things. However, it's all shades of gray because they do some good things as well. When you ignore one to the exclusion of the other, you get illogical thinking and some of the posts in the health threads reflect this sort of absolutist thinking.
I'm well aware that my lifestyle has had an effect on my health. So does my doctor, who is a big advocate of lifestyle and dietary changes - most doctors are. However, sometimes the body doesn't cure itself even when you do the right things and that's where medicine comes in.
Should people look into their treatments and be informed about what they're taking? Of course! If they have doubts about their doctor's diagnosis or proposed treatment, should they get a second opinion? Yes, a thousand times yes! Should they believe former dentists who make big bucks from pushing water that somebody waved an herb at instead of an MD? No! That would be stupid!
And that would be my main problem with the natural health crap that gets posted on such threads as this one. Uncritical acceptance of unqualified opinions and the stubborn embrace of "alternative treatments" that haven't stood up to testing.
Who here, in this thread, has advocated using homeopathy?
"Drs" Horowitz and Mercola have both been linked to in various places. They advocate for a wide variety of untested (or when tested, ineffective) "natural" remedies, including homeopathy, and for the avoidance of mainstream treatments. The homeopathic reference was a ferinstance.
Should people look into their treatments and be informed about what they're taking? Of course! If they have doubts about their doctor's diagnosis or proposed treatment, should they get a second opinion? Yes, a thousand times yes! Should they believe former dentists who make big bucks from pushing water that somebody waved an herb at instead of an MD? No! That would be stupid!
Maybe it would help to take a poll and see if there are ANY regular babblers out there who believe that homeopathy (and the poll would include a very detailed definition of what constitutes homeopathy) is actually an effective way to cure a disease. I think the number of such babblers would be very low.
Yet in every thread about non-traditional healing, the big “H” word gets thrown out there like it’s a central theme and the thread goes to hell in a handbasket. I think this thread was intended to bring out the homeopathy supporters for a public flogging, but it failed. Mostly because we don’t have a whole bunch of homeopathy supporters.
So lets kill and bury homeopathy. Then perhaps we can carry on from there. The subject of alternative methods of healing, healing through lifestyle and nutrition and using vitamins and exercise – this is a fascinating subject. And I think we could have excellent discussions about it.
I also think there is enough evidence out there right now that we can safely agree that maybe just maybe Pfizer and Merck but not be our best friends and might not have our best interests at heart. Maybe sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. Maybe sometimes our doctors aren’t the last word on every subject. Maybe not, but we could discuss it better if we didn’t have to keep arguing homeopathy every single time.
I have been researching diet and nutrition for months as it applies to my own health, and the information is overwhelming and the results have been incredible.
I have personally gone from a six pill a day person to zero and from a size 18 to a 14. My doctor is surprised at how low my cholesterol is and at the fact that my bp is optimum after five years of being way high. My RA symptoms have disappeared and my last test showed only a miniscule RA factor. Even with this my doctor suggested I continue to take the RA meds, but I looked into it and I choose not to. Those meds are for active RA, I don’t have active RA. But my doctor does not know how to send someone out of her office without first handing them a prescription for something and that’s just her thing. I choose not to follow that advice and continue with the plant based diet instead. If I take the RA meds, I would also have to take the meds designed to counter the side effects of those meds. Gaaa.
I am attending classes on nutrition, and learning all sorts of things from some very educated people. Unless you are like TB and already amazingly fit with an excellent diet, chances are there is room for improvement “naturally” and some tweaking might indeed be able to lessen the dependence on OTC or prescription meds.
Just my two, well 77 cents. I love this subject, it’s fascinating and relevant and I would like to discuss it reasonably on babble. But I don’t think we can till we kill homeopathy.
What an awesome post. Thanks, Polly B.
The cure to most of what ails us is to eat well, in the way our bodies have been designed to consume food. We aren't built for refined sugars, excess salt (and that's the single biggest in western diets IMHO), artifical anything. Eat food. Like brussel sprouts, spinach, broccoli. Eat meat, in moderation, from farmers that produce real meats, rather than turkeys with no reproductive organs, cows who have been fed cows, and the like. Avoid anything with preservatives, including most forms of chips. Avoid fried potatoes where possible.
As an aside, the best chips are sweet potato,regular potato, and onion slices, seasoned with whatever you like, sliced thin (I use a mandolin), tossed in oil, and roasted at 425 for 30-35 mins.
Agree with PollyB.
The only posting of alternative health treatment links, it seems, is by people who are trying to discredit all but "regulated" healing modalities and stop others asking questions.
Heywood the chips sound great. And yes, I totally completely believe that we need to reform our diets. Radically and soon.
My niece was over the other day and she was all smooch face with her little boy (about two). It was a special day, he had just eaten his first happy meal! Show Aunty your toy!! OMFG.
It will be a long hard change though. My son mentioned in his school nutrition class that we don't believe we "need" to eat meat and we eat only plant products. The teacher told him that his mother needed to educate herself on the importance of good nutrition.
We had a PTI. She won't be saying things like that again.
"Drs" Horowitz and Mercola have both been linked to in various places. They advocate for a wide variety of untested (or when tested, ineffective) "natural" remedies, including homeopathy, and for the avoidance of mainstream treatments. The homeopathic reference was a ferinstance.
Hmm, maybe it's their mothers' deaths.
Just to let you know - the Quackbusters are in trouble.
http://bolenreport.com/feature_articles/feature_article069.htm
http://bolenreport.com/feature_articles/feature_article078.htm
http://www.quackpotwatch.org/quackpots/quackpots/barrett.htm
http://www.quackpotwatch.org/opinionpieces/quackbusters_barrett.htm
It will be a long hard change though. My son mentioned in his school nutrition class that we don't believe we "need" to eat meat and we eat only plant products. The teacher told him that his mother needed to educate herself on the importance of good nutrition.
We had a PTI. She won't be saying things like that again.
I don't disagree with you that the nutrients we need from meat can be replaced by plant sources. I don't know if it is possible to have a complete vegan diet that is locally producable in Canada.
My family eats far less meat than I ever did individually as a single guy. My wife jokes that she'd be vegan but for bacon.
Good for you for being able to live a meat-free life. I love meat too much to give it up, as do the kids. However, we don't eat mass-produced or mass-slaughtered beef and we've recently moved to all meat forms being locally & humanely produced.
For everone else, a parental tip for those kids who wont eat their veggies. Steam them lightly rather than boiling them. For the infamous brussel sprouts, slice them in half lengthwise and roast them. I have no solution for peas, because peas are nasty and gross and I won't eat them. I WON'T!
eta: regarding hte teacher, YIKES!
Peas can be hidden in guacamole and they actually make a pretty decent lighter-fat version? But thats all I got.
I only like peas raw straight out of the garden and so do my kids. My mom used to say "I eat my peas with honey, I've done it all my life, it makes the peas taste funny, but it sticks them to my knife". So we tried that one too. The peas did taste funny.
I gave up meat to get rid of the RA and my family has followed suit on their own. For the first few months I still cooked chicken and beef etc and had it available, but since the summer I have tapered off just because it doesn't get eaten. We eat a LOT of beans and nuts, so our nutritional needs are being met and even exceeded in most cases. My dogs are not happy, apparently our table scraps suck now.
On most days in my house meat is so little eaten that I have a hard time storing it in usable packages small enough to avoid waste. Three chicken breasts and some meatballs is about two weeks consumption for dinner. Toss in some bacon and sausage for the weekends and that's about it.
My oldest daughter LOVES her steaks though, and medium at that.
I've tried everything with peas.I just cant stand them though.
Poor doggies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_for_a_Small_Planet
Diet for a Small Planet by Frances Moore Lappe is a great book for those who want to be kinder to the planet and themselves. Her approach to combining non-meat foods for maximum protein is an eye-opener for meat eaters.
HF - re Won't eat peas - reminds me of the New Yorker cartoon about broccoli -
http://www.compedit.com/nygraphics.htm
Do your dogs like peas?
HAH! That was awesome. "The hell with it!"
Heywood not even snow peas??! Snow peas are the best vegetable on the planet it's sacrilege to make a stir fry without :)
My dogs like meat and bread, and dead things they find on the road, and they lick their own behinds when nobodys looking. I can't figure out why they look so hurt when I offer them veggies.
It will be a long hard change though. My son mentioned in his school nutrition class that we don't believe we "need" to eat meat and we eat only plant products. The teacher told him that his mother needed to educate herself on the importance of good nutrition.
We had a PTI. She won't be saying things like that again.
Holy crap. I hope you told the principal as well. What a stupid thing to say!
Thanks for the direction you have taken this thread Polly B.
I too think diet is essential, as is recognizing that we need to pay attention to what our bodies require and what they don't tolerate, I think that varies for people. There have been times that I have followed a vegetarian diet but I found when I was doing the Kinghardt protocol for Lyme disease that I really craved meat. These days I don't eat much meat and am happy with a mostly vegetarian diet again.
I was fortunate to live on an organic farm thirty years ago and since then have leaned towards a wholesome diet. I credit that with my recovery, well also not taking the medication that was presribed to me. lol
The cure to most of what ails us is to eat well, in the way our bodies have been designed to consume food. We aren't built for refined sugars, excess salt (and that's the single biggest in western diets IMHO), artifical anything.
Nor are our bodies built to spend large amounts of time debating health matters on internet discussion boards ;)
Seriously though, we also don't get nearly enough exercise. That stems from the nature of work (many people spend large amounts of time sitting at desks), the fact that much of the really hard work we don't have to do, and that we drive everywhere because there's nothing within reasonable walking distance. Redesigining our communities and lifestyles so that exercising is easier and not so incovnenient will also help.
So lets kill and bury homeopathy. Then perhaps we can carry on from there. The subject of alternative methods of healing, healing through lifestyle and nutrition and using vitamins and exercise – this is a fascinating subject. And I think we could have excellent discussions about it.
I also think there is enough evidence out there right now that we can safely agree that maybe just maybe Pfizer and Merck but not be our best friends and might not have our best interests at heart. Maybe sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. Maybe sometimes our doctors aren’t the last word on every subject. Maybe not, but we could discuss it better if we didn’t have to keep arguing homeopathy every single time.
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Just my two, well 77 cents. I love this subject, it’s fascinating and relevant and I would like to discuss it reasonably on babble. But I don’t think we can till we kill homeopathy.
I am not sure why one would have to kill homeopathy before one can have a discussion about alternatives?It is as simple as starting another threat,
It might take awhile before homeopathy is dead it has been around for a long time and there are probably millions of people using it. I think one of the problems we have here in north America is the one track aproach that our doctors tend to take. In Europe I found that the doctors ,I consulted, tended to be much more aware of alternatives beside the conventional western medicine.
Nor are our bodies built to spend large amounts of time debating health matters on internet discussion boards ;)
Very good point! You can probably pinpoint the drastic downturn in the health of North Americans. It was the day we could get in our car, drive to the restaurant, order a 2,000 calorie meal out the window and only have to lift our butt off the seat far enough to reach the wallet.
Polly B - do you use a juicer?
Thats funny Tigana I JUST got given one, and it's in a box on my table. I can't wait to try it out.
Great posts Polly B. I'm also happy we might be able to move forward.
I'm pondering why I don't have one of my famous smoothees everyday... Is it the expense... the labour involved... taking the path of least resistance... pickiness over regularity... my life situation... babble subterfuge... ???
My favorite thread lately.
Nutrition's back on my radar, it always is a good base starting point. Thanks all for the information everyone.
My diet is baaaad but it's so easy when so many around me are worse. Our lifestyle really needs to change.
My 8 year old is exploring vegetarianism as an ethical choice (our family isn't veg, but my eldest was from age 5 to 13 and on/off since then). She's pretty good with most fruits, veggies and low-fat dairy products, but I have a heck of a time getting whole grains and enough protein in. She isn't a big fan of soy, which is kind of too bad, even though it's expensive for the gr of protein per serving it's really versatile. Any parents out there have suggestions?
Re pharma vs alternative therapies, lifestyle does have so much to do with being able to avoid drugs, but in our case (our youngest takes medication to control epiliptic seizures and I medicate for chronic debilitating clinical depression - with much success I might add) we can't abandon tradition meds.
Re homeopathy, a friend of mine uses homeopathics to control the damage done to her by a drug that was administered to her years ago. She doesn't know why some of the stuff works, it just does. For her at least. The other day I started taking OTC homeopathic eyedrops to treat an infection that otherwise would've required antibiotics. When I read the label on the drops and checked out the active ingredients, I was skeptical. The few times I've experimented with homeopathic remedies, I found them to be completely useless. But I wasn't ready to go conventional (antibiotics are very hard on my system and used only when absolutely nothing else will work). The drops are working, probably because they keep my eye washed out enough that my immune system can effectively deal with the fundamental infection.
I'm no proponent of homeopathy, but if someone believes drinking fairy dust in their morning juice is working for them, so what? Good for them. If they're looking to fairy dust as a cure for MS or cancer, I'd suggest they were delusional.
Great posts Polly B. I'm also happy we might be able to move forward.
I'm pondering why I don't have one of my famous smoothees everyday... Is it the expense... the labour involved... taking the path of least resistance... pickiness over regularity... my life situation... babble subterfuge... ???
My favorite thread lately.
Nutrition's back on my radar, it always is a good base starting point. Thanks all for the information everyone.
So, what's in your favorite smoothie? I have been experimenting with juicing - sometimes successfully other times oh not so much - and I have discovered that yes there are some combinations that just don't work. I reallly like the just-fruit blends, but one of my reasons for wanting to try the juicer was to get in some more veggies.
Ideas?
A high-quality source of inexpensive non-meat protein is peanut butter. Unfortunately you can't send that to school, but my kids eat lots of peanut butter at home - one of their favourite after-school snacks is toast with peanut butter. Get the natural stuff - the commercial brands have icing sugar in them as a sweetener/stabilizer. The natural peanut butter needs to be stirred because it separates. When I buy it, I put it upside down in the cupboard so that the oil goes to the bottom and is easier to mix in when we open it.
I have often said that north Americans are overmedicated, but if you need meds, best to just ignore the people telling you it's better to be "natural." It's natural to die in childbirth or suffer from parasites.
Far as homeopathy goes, I don't mind harmless remedies, though homeopathy is an unregulated big business. If anybody wants to avoid enriching big pharma, don't buy homeopathic remedies either.
Celery, apple and carrot is sweet, adding some beets and lemon juice to that is one of my favourites. I always add lemon with beets, if I am remembering correctly it helps with absorption of iron. I have juiced a case of cabbage over a few weeks, drinking at least 8 ounces a day, I was very ill at the time and it did help but I haven't been able to face cabbage juice since then. lol
These days I make my own yogurt with goat milk, I make it the SCD (Specific Carbohydrate Diet) way which is to culture it for 24 hours, eating it daily has made a real difference in my digestion and saves me from having to buy probiotics which never agreed with me anyways. Then with the goat yogurt I make a soft cheese by dripping it and make a variety of dishes including a lemon sherbet with honey that is really delicious and saves me from any craving for ice-cream.
Having pulled myself back from serious illness through diet I am convinced that dietary changes make an enormous difference in our well being.
As for homeopathy, I have used Arnica for muscle pain with success but perhaps I would have felt better anyways.
Re probiotics: I just did a paper for school where I was asked to consider whether probiotics were an option for a patient who has suffered from C. difficile diarrhea (that nasty hospital-acquired diarrhea people get from antibiotics). What I discovered was the evidence for probiotics wasn't all that great, and the risks were bigger than I'd ever realized. You can get fungal infections of the blood from taking too many probiotics like Saccharomyces boulardii (yeast). People have died with fungus growing on their heart valves. In Europe, they were giving this stuff to folks in ICUs and patients in the same room were getting fungal infections through their central venous catheters because of the yeast getting into the air and persisting on the nurses' hands after handwashing. Yikes!!
I prefer to eat yogurt myself. My dad made yogurt in the 70s and it was great - I might look into it when I get some time off.
Cabbage juice....hmmm....I tried beet juice recently at a local healthfood store, and it certainly tasted....healthy.
That's interesting about the probiotics Sineed.
As for peanut butter I think mold is an issue with most peanut butters but Valencia peanuts are grown in an area where there is no mold so if that is a concern for you choose Valencia peanut butter.
I have found that I can no longer tolerate peanuts, the last two times I have eaten them I have thrown up and so I have switched to almond butter, pricier but delicious.
Getting kids involved in food production and preparation helps to get them to try different foods. We have a handcranked flourmill that the kids spent many hours on to make their morning musli. Also a sprouter, giving them a gardenplot, chickens for eggs and a few dairy goats. They all can cook, and bake. Sure it is not always easy to get them to finish and cleanup.
We have a juicer but use it little. Too much cleanup and power consumption. We tend to rasp beets, carrots and an apple for a salade. Add a bit of lemon and some sunflower seed or nut bits, it tasts very good, not just healthy. Just make sure you have good carrots, there are many bitter ones out there.
Tofu is a bit harder. I think it is the texture that turns kids off. Tempee has more texture. But hummus with carrot sticks would be a good substitude also. My kids also were very good with avocado and yeast extract ( Vitam-R, a german product).
My kids love hummus! I always have a bowl in the fridge and they even use it for sandwich spread for lunches.
My 8 year old is exploring vegetarianism as an ethical choice (our family isn't veg, but my eldest was from age 5 to 13 and on/off since then). She's pretty good with most fruits, veggies and low-fat dairy products, but I have a heck of a time getting whole grains and enough protein in. She isn't a big fan of soy, which is kind of too bad, even though it's expensive for the gr of protein per serving it's really versatile. Any parents out there have suggestions?
Nuts are great but as Sineed pointed out there's an issue with bringing nuts into schools. Have you tried things like bean spreds or just bean dishes in general? My nephew loves hummus but the recipe had to be adjusted to his taste as a lot of the store bought hummuses were either too garlicy or too sour because of the lemon juice. He really likes the whole dipping part of eating some of these spreds. Beans can also be used in things like burritos which I've found a lot of kids really like.
How is she with mushrooms? They're not super high in protein compared to beans and legumes but they do have some essential amino acids that help them be accessible, so in that regard they are good veggie source. I find they're pretty good as they can be added to so many different dishes and for kids can be chopped up in really small pieces so they aren't too noticible if there is a real ick factor about them.
Scrambled eggs with chopped up veggies always works for my kids. And whole grain toast, bagel or whatever. (I just quit buying anything but whole grain bread a long time ago, my kids eventually got used to it and quit asking for anything else).
Oh yes just remembered. When I was veggie and sometimes shared cooking with roomies who weren't veggie but didn't mind eating dishes one of them couldn't stand tofu. So when I cooked I would blend tofu right into things like pasta sauce and creamy like soups and stews. It took a bit of experiementation to get the quantities right but the disguised versions were fine and he ate them right up. You just use the softest tofu you can find.
What ElizaQ said. I do that too, very soft tofu makes a great alfredo, plus I can make a pretty decent ricotta substitute for my lasagna with firm tofu and spices. Top with soy mozza and voila!
So, what's in your favorite smoothie? I have been experimenting with juicing - sometimes successfully other times oh not so much - and I have discovered that yes there are some combinations that just don't work. I reallly like the just-fruit blends, but one of my reasons for wanting to try the juicer was to get in some more veggies.
Ideas?
My staple smoothie is a chocolate banana berry mix. I make them in a blender. Start off with a bit of ice, frozen yogurt (it's usually a berry yogurt), bit of chocolate milk, banana and berries. (fresh are better but I usually have a bag of frozen berries), flaxseed meal and hemp seed. Blend with the ice crusher setting and that's it.
I like to experiment with mangos too. Smoothies are real easy to design to your own tastes. And they pack a real energy and antioxidant punch.
Haven't tried juicing yet but it is something I should get to eventually because I'm a big fan of V8.
frozen bananas make a great ice cream substitute when pushed through a juicer, and when topped with a splash of maple syrup, and crushed pecans, or actually any nuts, it is excellent.
get older bananas on sale, then peel and freeze, it is great keeping a supply in stock, just freeze em on wax papered cookie sheet then slap into a freezer container.
Great tip on freezing them remind. Didn't know that. Doesn't even have to be the older bananas either as here prices can swing from 0.29/lb to 0.99/lb. Stock up a bit when they're 0.29. And just got a small freezer on the weekend for exactly that type of thing. Thanks.
You are welcome, have been doing it for decades now
also frozen whole bananas when frozen on a stick of some sort, (i use disposable chopsticks) make great teethers for tots teething too.
and frozen bananas on a stick, when dipped in melted carob and then rolled in nuts are also great for kids treats when someone is lactose intolerant.
older bananas have a nicer/sweeter frozen taste than the not so ripe ones. And do not forget to peel. ;)
Homeopathy A & E (Accident and Emergency)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0
Try freezing tofu, then letting it thaw. It becomes quite chewy.
I tried tempeh once but found it had an acrid, mouldy taste.