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Okay, I've talked to alot of kids, mostly my kids and their friends about homosexuality and lesbianism and what I found was that most of the kids, in fact all of them, just don't think it's a big deal. As a matter of fact, many of them in their teens say they are bi because they said they don't really know what they are? AND they aren't worried either!
So I did a search on the web to find out if there is any info on this and of course I found nothing but stuff on parents who think that schools shouldn't be teaching them about this stuff...blah blah blah. And this left me thinking that maybe, parents, at least some of them are out of touch with what kids really think? It seems that we still have a "generation gap" between youth and adults.
The youth of today will have it easier in that respect - they will probably not face the kinds of pressures extant as recently as fifteen years ago to 'conform' to the notion that heterosexuality is the only valid sexuality.
I think this would move even faster if adults modelled appropriate tolerance behavior and counselled open-mindedness. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
But if you do that, they'll not only grow to respect you, but love you and like you.
And you'll never get them to move out.
But seriously. My ex was strangely homophobic in our early years together. I say strangely, because she had a cousin that was openly gay, and she thought the world of him. Still does. I can never figure out that kind of bigotry. I had an uncle like that, in the States who detested black people. All black people. Except the ones he knew...
I worked on the homophobia thing with her, because I didn't want my girls exposed to that, and I believe my ex isn't homophobic today. I think the clincher was when I came across statistics of gay teen suicides, and showed them to her. I said that, in the case of one or more of our girls happening to be gay, I didn't want them thinking one of their parents loathed them. At the same time, I remember telling my two older girls that I wouldn't care if they were gay.
As it turns out, two eldest from my first marriage are hetero. As she is in most things, my youngest tends to be enigmatic. I think she is more of the generation that onetwothreefourfivesixseven describes.
Another double post. I guess I shouldn't walk away and do other stuff when I'm composing a post. It seems to lock up when leave it on "add reply" for considerable lengths of time.
BTW, nice to see you Doc.
[ 27 October 2007: Message edited by: Tommy_Paine ]
You can say that again!
Oh drat, you already edited. [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
[ 27 October 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]
And you'll never get them to move out.
Adult kids move out if parents start walking around nude in the house. I heard it really works.
[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
1...7, you borrowed that line from some U.S. comic - what's his name, I forget...?
Actually, I borrowed from someone who borrowed it from someone who borrowed.....
We parents of adult children are passing that gem around to everyone we know. It's been spreading like wildfire....
It's one of the few perks, if the only perk of living in a puritan continant like north america...I doubt it would work in Europe.
[ 27 October 2007: Message edited by: 1234567 ]
I think there's still a lot of anti gay bigotry in high schools and in society in general. I think that regardless of how much progress the gay rights movement has made, gay people still have a long way to go before they acheive equality. Just because a society allows gay marriage and pride marches, and makes sure that certain kinds of gay men are seen on telvision, it dosen't mean that it has stopped shunning homosexuals.
[ 27 October 2007: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]
What's different about the homophobia thing say versus the race thing is that sometimes you don't know what people's sexual orientation is when you first meet them.
That is what's making the acceptence of homosexuality and lesbianism happen alot quicker by society in my view.
It's alot harder to "hate" someone after you've gotten to know them and like them, then you find out they are gay.
[thread drift]123, although I understand your point, there are many times when this is not true. POC with anglo names, who speak with the "right" "Canadian accent" are assumed to be white. We know this because of how we're spoken to over the phone, versus when people meet us in person.
Also, some of us are what can be best described as "racially ambiguous". We get squinted at, heads cocked, and asked "What are you?" constantly.
If we can avoid comparing different oppressions that would be lovely.
And I know many queers who have been disowned and abandoned by family and friends when they came out. The "love" that "loved ones" had felt for them was not able to transcend their queerness. It's very hurtful.[/thread drift]
As to the topic, young people these days are much less uptight about labels for sexual orientation, and hopefully they will laugh at any of us oldtimers (over age 30 I guess) who cling to homophobia and heterosexism. And that's fine by me.
At my daughters high school it's a lot easier to be out than I'm sure it was a generation ago, but I'm guessing there are a lot of schools where it isn't the case. We moved so she could attend the place.
It's not an issue for same sex couples to attend dances or the formal prom and stuff. Just up the street from us is the Catholic school that made headlines a while back for forbidding this. At the Catholic school though, IIRC it was the administration that had the problem, and not so much the students.
Last year my daughter did a [url=http://www.dayofsilence.org/]day of silence [/url] thing at her school on her own. Most people didn't really get it because I think it's more of an American thing. she explained it to her teachers in advance and they were all cool with it. some people thought she was comining out which gave her a bit of a chuckle, and she's let them think whatever they want.
[ 30 October 2007: Message edited by: oldgoat ]
I can't even imagine anyone having been "out" when I was in high school. The only time anyone talked about anyone being "gay" was with malicious whispers about some person or other (and looking back, I can only think of two people who had that rumour spread about them - one of them I'm almost positive it wasn't true, and the other, I'm not sure). At the time, because homosexuality was so far off my radar, I think I just assumed it wasn't true, although I didn't have any problem with it in general. I think I thought it was just one of those things that happens sometimes "out there" but not to anyone I know. A very heterosexist way of looking at the world, but unconscious because of lack of exposure to anything different.
Race was the same way. I think I only encountered maybe two or three Black kids during my entire elementary and high school years, having grown up in almost completely white suburban and rural areas. Not too many other people of colour or people of other religions either. With the weird result being that now, when I look back, I realize that so-and-so was probably Jewish, or even possibly some other religion (!), or so-and-so was perhaps of Hispanic or Arab or Indigenous background (or of mixed background perhaps), but it never occurred to me at the time that they were anything but white. They were just white people who "tan well". [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] Because my whole world was white, and I just sort of assumed that everyone else was too, even if they weren't. I think, in Women's studies lingo, that's referred to as "white solipsism" - seeing everything around you as white, even when it's not, and seeing white as the standard.
Same with heteronormativity, where everyone's assumed to be straight, unless they say otherwise.
Originally posted by 1234567:[b]It's one of the few perks, if the only perk of living in a puritan continant like north america...I doubt it would work in Europe.[/b]
I don't know about that...I think this Ikea commercial aired in Europe. [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Oh, the look on my kid's faces if they saw me in a getup like that....LOL! Especially with the muffing top happening. LOL! [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Muffing? Top? My my what has this thread come to? [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Originally posted by Michelle:[b]I can't even imagine anyone having been "out" when I was in high school.[/b]
When I went to highschool, in a white religious community gay was unknown, but yet, we thought it was great that 2 guys were going to the grad together wearing white tuxs and purple silk shirts, and though one of our Grrll friends was not interested in boys, oh well she might be some day. Turns out she still is not. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Yeah. I remember a couple of girls went to the prom together because neither of them had boyfriends and there was no rule against it (although I think it was because it was clear they were not going as a "couple"). I heard a few snide remarks about it and a rumour about one of the girls who did it, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't true in her case - it was just the usual social sanction that happens to people who "break the rules".
The rules, of course, aren't just about being gay or straight. It's also about whether you "count" by having a boyfriend or girlfriend. "Single" girls didn't have the same status as girls with boyfriends, and most of the organized social activities at school were aimed at heterosexual coupling: dances, formals, proms, etc. Singles could go to formal dances, but they weren't REALLY welcome. And since everyone else is paired up (and it's usually the kind of event where you're paired up with the person you're dating or want to start dating), who do you dance with?
I have very good memories of my one and only prom, for which I had a date. But I didn't go to my "senior" prom because I didn't have a date - the guy I was seeing at the time wasn't in high school, and wasn't into it. Just as well. Without a date, it would've been boring anyhow.
Times have changed, for the better, now that gays are more accepted, but there still are youthfull gangs going around beating up the gay kids.
In my high school days, so long ago, we apparently didn't have even one gay person... therefore they all stayed 'in the closet' and life could not have been easy for them. So, I told my sons that if they are gay, I would love them the same... and wow did I get some weird vibes from that... I just wanted them to know it was okay to be gay but I should have probably known they were not. Parenting is never easy in changing times!!