2016 Presidential election campaign 3

584 posts / 0 new
Last post
josh

Russian propaganda, including fake news, amplified anti-Clinton, pro-Trump story line.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/-Russian-propaganda-effort-he...

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

A very interesting article, containing specific examples, like this:

Craig Timberg wrote:
Some of these stories originated with RT and Sputnik, state-funded Russian information services that mimic the style and tone of independent news organizations yet sometimes include false and misleading stories in their reports, the researchers say. On other occasions, RT, Sputnik and other Russian sites used social-media accounts to amplify misleading stories already circulating online, causing news algorithms to identify them as "trending" topics that sometimes prompted coverage from mainstream American news organizations.

The speed and coordination of these efforts allowed Russian-backed phony news to outcompete traditional news organizations for audience. Some of the first and most alarming tweets after Clinton fell ill at a Sept. 11 memorial event in New York, for example, came from Russian botnets and trolls, researchers found. (She was treated for pneumonia and returned to the campaign trail a few days later.)

This followed a spate of other misleading stories in August about Clinton's supposedly troubled health. The Daily Beast debunked a particularly widely read piece in an article that reached 1,700 Facebook accounts and was read online more than 30,000 times. But the PropOrNot researchers found that the version supported by Russian propaganda reached 90,000 Facebook accounts and was read more than 8 million times. The researchers said the true Daily Beast story was like "shouting into a hurricane" of false stories supported by the Russians.

Geoff

RT "sometimes include false and misleading stories in their reports"? All I can say is, thank God I live in the west where the media investigate stories thoroughly for accuracy and fairness.Laughing

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Geoff wrote:

RT "sometimes include false and misleading stories in their reports"? All I can say is, thank God I live in the west where the media investigate stories thoroughly for accuracy and fairness.Laughing

You picked the least interesting part of the quote to comment on. What do you have to say about the 8M  bot and troll driven views of the Russian fake news story as opposed to the 30K views of the Daily Beast debunking?

josh

A senior Russian official on Thursday accused the Ukrainian government of attempting to hurt Donald Trump's presidential campaign by leaking information about his former campaign manager, according to a Politico report.

"Ukraine seriously complicated the work of Trump's election campaign headquarters by planting information according to which Paul Manafort, Trump's campaign chairman, allegedly accepted money from Ukrainian oligarchs," Maria Zakharova, a spokeswoman for Russia's Foreign Ministry, said at a press briefing. "All of you have heard this remarkable story." 

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/russian-official-accuses-ukraine-undermining-trump-campaign?utm_content=bufferdf81e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer 

May be true. But makes sense why the Russians would allege this. To divert attention from, and excuse, their blatant and persistent effort to interferre in the election on behalf of Trump.

 

 

Doug Woodard

When will Trump voters realize they've been had?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/when-will-trump-voters-realize-theyve-b...

And what will they do?

NorthReport

Truer words were never spoken

All this BS about the Russians is just the Democrat party elite trying to justify their existence.

This election shows what can happen when the gap between the rich and the poor is not addressed

Bernie Sanders blames Trump victory on Democratic Party elite

http://www.marinij.com/government-and-politics/20161202/in-san-rafael-sp...

 

josh

NorthReport wrote:

Truer words were never spoken

All this BS about the Russians is just the Democrat party elite trying to justify their existence.

This election shows what can happen when the gap between the rich and the poor is not addressed

Bernie Sanders blames Trump victory on Democratic Party elite

http://www.marinij.com/government-and-politics/20161202/in-san-rafael-sp...

 


It's not an either/or proposition.

josh

Republicans' anti-union laws in Wisconsin and Michigan benefitted Trump.

http://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2016/12/01/republican_anti-union...

l

josh

CIA concludes that Russians tried to defeat Clinton and elect Trump. They hacked the RNC too but kept the information secret.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/us/obama-russia-election-hack.html?...

ygtbk

josh wrote:

CIA concludes that Russians tried to defeat Clinton and elect Trump. They hacked the RNC too but kept the information secret.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/us/obama-russia-election-hack.html?...

Sometimes it pays to read the article.

Quote:

Mr. McCaul, who was considered by Mr. Trump for secretary of Homeland Security, initially told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer, “It’s important to note, Wolf, that they have not only hacked into the D.N.C. but also into the R.N.C.” He added that “the Russians have basically hacked into both parties at the national level, and that gives us all concern about what their motivations are.”

Minutes later, the R.N.C. issued a statement denying that it had been hacked. Mr. McCaul subsequently said that he had misspoken, but that it was true that “Republican political operatives” had been the target of Russian hacking. So were establishment Republicans with no ties to the campaign, including former Secretary of State Colin L. Powell.

Mr. McCaul may have had in mind a collection of more than 200 emails of Republican officials and activists that appeared this year on the website DCLeaks.com. That website got far more attention for the many Democratic Party documents it posted.

The messages stolen from Republicans have drawn little attention because most are routine business emails from local Republican Party officials in several states, congressional staff members and party activists.

josh

I guess you didn't read the second paragraph of the article. Sometimes it pays to read the story.

Rev Pesky

This whole story is hilarious. But what fun! So, now that the 'help' Trump received from Russia, whether true or not, is on the table, what happens? Trump gets into a big battle with the CIA, which is not a particularly smart thing to do, or he just accepts the accusation and tries to ignore it. That's not going to happen. How about ranting and raving, and blaming everyone else for everything. Yup, that's the Trump we all know and love.

This isn't an election, this is a fucking circus! Clowns upon clowns. No one knows what they're talking about, but no one is shy about talking nevertheless. If the Russians had intended to disrupt the election, could  they have done a better job? I don't think so.

So, where do we go from here? The Electoral College still has to certify the vote, and so far as I know there's no law that says the members of said college have to vote according to the actual balloting. Could a handful of Electoral Colleges votes move from Trump to Clinton, and overturn the result? Something tells me that wouldn't be well received, either by Trump or his supporters. Yet the other side of that coin is the simple fact that the government is telling Trump supporters their candidate may have been elected with the help of Russia.

At one and the same time, I think the situation could become very volatile in a big hurry, but it's like watching a slow motion train wreck. You can't look away.

More popcorn, i guess.

ygtbk

josh wrote:
I guess you didn't read the second paragraph of the article. Sometimes it pays to read the story.

I read the paragraph. It makes an assertion but provides no evidence. It might or might not be true.

I'm sure the Russians will be happier with Trump as president, rather than Clinton, though: she smoothed the way for the Rosatom/Uranium One deal, but that was a few years ago, and she's adopted a more hawkish stance since.

josh

The source is the CIA report which I hope Obama orders released as he slouches into the sunset. You're free to believe it or not. But the source was not the September remark that you cited.

SeekingAPolitic...

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-12-12/mcconnell-warning...

 

President-elect Donald Trump’s race to enact the biggest tax cuts since the 1980s went under a caution flag Monday as Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell warned he considers current levels of U.S. debt “dangerous” and said he wants any tax overhaul to avoid adding to the deficit.

“I think this level of national debt is dangerous and unacceptable,” McConnell said, adding he hopes Congress doesn’t lose sight of that when it acts next year. “My preference on tax reform is that it be revenue neutral,” he said.

 

Republicans seemed to have destroyed trumps economic plan.  Revenue netural means that for every dollar in tax cuts has to be matched by a cut in spending.  Means a net 0 boost to the economy.  Later in the article McConnel says 1 trillion stimilus will probably not happen or at least the whole 1 t. .  This guts trumps plan for boosting the economy which is effectively on life support.  The honeymoon is over.

 

SeekingAPolitic...

Fake News.

Call me cyncial but the MSM the standard bearer of anti-fake news efforts is not figthing for truth in reporting rather they fighting for the bottom line. People are tuning out and these corporate news organizations see what is coming, for everyone person that dumps thier MSM channel news it means that those who own the media are losing money.  They don't care what MSM reports as long as it profitable for the owners those channels. 

Who every actually created the internet I thank you.  In the old days these corporate news channels and associated web sites had a monoploy on what "truth" they reported.  With the internet you can find alternatives to the MSM and they are growing day by day.  Trying to discredit these internet news sources is not about truth but rather a desperate attempt to hold on to share of the market.  What ploys these corporate orginizations be them tv,print,radio,etc come up with, those corporations will continue to face financial reality of people tuning out.  

As media sites trying to certail fake news is just smokescreen.  Their sites are very vulnerable to changing attitude and tastes they realized that.  A social media site with 200 million users may in 3 years have 100,000 users if their hip wares off.  So their attempts sweeze "fake news" will mean that people move other social media site.  The "truth" monoply is gone.  Fake News is just a desperate effort to maintain the status quo.

 

josh

In the old days, the electronic news, for the most part, provided high quality reporting with high quality correspondents. Now, for the most part, it is shit. Between that and the newspapers people were arguable more accurately informed than today.

ygtbk

Does Reuters provide high-quality reporting? You be the judge.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-intelligence-idUSKBN14204E

 

 

6079_Smith_W

From that Reuters article:

Quote:

"ODNI is not arguing that the agency (CIA) is wrong, only that they can't prove intent," said one of the three U.S. officials. "Of course they can't, absent agents in on the decision-making in Moscow."

Rev Pesky

As a matter of interest, the 'Clapper' referred to in the Reuters story is the infamous James Clapper, the man who lied to Congress about the activities of the NSA. Lying to Congress is sort of a serious infraction, and many people have gone to jail for doing the same, but Clapper managed not only to stay out of jail, but to continue in his position as head of ODNI until his retirement which will take place at the end of Obama's presidency.

That bit about lying to Congress is only a part of his repertoire. He's also responsible for the bright stories of how the USA was defeating ISIS back when. Reporting anything this guy says is a chancy affair.

ygtbk

Clearly, there are many reasons to disbelieve all of the main actors in this story.

josh
iyraste1313

Fake News is just a desperate effort to maintain the status quo........

Regrets I cannot post here some recent analyses on the role of CIA, Mossad etc. on their buyouts of MSM correspondents...but let's not underestimate the multibillion dollar intelligence operations

6079_Smith_W

On the other hand, the hard evidence regarding the malware used for this hack is pretty compelling, even though as the article states there is no absolute proof as to why they did it.

And of course, as the article also states there will not be that proof unless you have a statement from someone who did it.

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Fake News is just a desperate effort to maintain the status quo

No, it's a desperate effort to try to convince morons that Hillary Clinton isn't being represented by a body double because she's dying of pneumonia.

SeekingAPolitic...

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Fake News is just a desperate effort to maintain the status quo

No, it's a desperate effort to try to convince morons that Hillary Clinton isn't being represented by a body double because she's dying of pneumonia.

You get the good and the bad.  Breaking the monoploy on who controls the narrative of what is truth comes with costs.  If people want to believe in "that Hillary Clinton isn't being represented by a body double because she's dying of pneumonia." wheres the harm.  There is no law agaisnt being a "moron" as long as dont a commit crime.     Let me assure you that there is a rich culture of people being "morons" since the dawn of time.  Tell me do believe that "fake news" was the downful of Clinton. 

 

 

 

 

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

That's a very post-truth perspective. Here's why it's not harmless. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/thinkprogress.org/amp/p/f7bd89501028

Quote:
Over the weekend, a gunman was arrested after entering Comet Ping Pong, a pizzeria in Washington, D.C. at the center of a conspiracy theory advanced by white supremacists and fake news sites. For weeks, conservatives have obsessed over the pizzeria, insisting—with zero evidence — it is a front for a child abuse ring with ties to the Clintons.
The ludicrous story was largely confined to the more vile corners of the internet, at least until a member of Donald Trump’s transition team promoted it. Michael Flynn Jr., whose rumor-mongering father is Donald Trump’s pick for national security adviser and who himself has been active on Trump’s transition team, spent the weekend sharing the conspiracy.

Rev Pesky

josh wrote:
">http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/12/how-russia-wins-an-electi...

I suggest anyone that needs a good laugh, read the above article. What a joke!

Just one of the lovelies from the article:

Quote:
Some Russian campaigns didn't work. Stories predicting doom from climate change or nuclear war have gained little to no traction in the U.S.

If it's the Russians trying to scare people about climate change, I'd say they had been particularly successful. Perhaps not in the US election, but certainly elsewhere. With the writers of the Leap Manifesto, for instance. Say, now that I think of it, why did they call it a 'manifesto'? Clear proof it's a Russian plot...

SeekingAPolitic...

TB Maybe.   I have a question for people.  I follow Yemen news as possible without being able read the local news in the various language of the region.

Lets compare new coverage Yemen vs Syria.***When I write this I don't want minimize peoples pain***

Syria and Yemen share a very ugly reality both are proxy wars for control who owns the middle east.

Syria Russia Iran Shite milita VS US France Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States -- Syria

Iran VS Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States(Western countries supplying arms)  -- Yemen

Watching the media I here in the west I am told that Russia is supporting the tyrant Assaid.  VS those democract rebels supported by the freedom loving gulf states. 

While in Yemen there is no coverage of Saudi's bombing a poor country to the 1600 century.  There is a massive food crisis.where is the outrage about yemen.  I don't hear saudis being demonized in the western press.  This morning I ran across an ugly story.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2016/12/13/2-2-million-...

Nearly 2.2 million Yemeni children are acutely malnourished, victims of the near-collapse of the health care system during two years of escalating conflict, UN children’s fund UNICEF said on Tuesday.

At least 462,000 are suffering from severe acute malnutrition, as food supplies have been disrupted by the devastating war between the Saudi-backed government and Houthi militias, the agency said

Where is the outrage, where are the calls for a humintirian ceasefire to help the people of Yemen.

If somebody can explain this media treatement to me I would be less cynial about the "truth" the MSM media presents.

 

 

 

 

SeekingAPolitic...

Timebandit wrote:
That's a very post-truth perspective. Here's why it's not harmless. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/thinkprogress.org/amp/p/f7bd89501028
Quote:
Over the weekend, a gunman was arrested after entering Comet Ping Pong, a pizzeria in Washington, D.C. at the center of a conspiracy theory advanced by white supremacists and fake news sites. For weeks, conservatives have obsessed over the pizzeria, insisting—with zero evidence — it is a front for a child abuse ring with ties to the Clintons. The ludicrous story was largely confined to the more vile corners of the internet, at least until a member of Donald Trump’s transition team promoted it. Michael Flynn Jr., whose rumor-mongering father is Donald Trump’s pick for national security adviser and who himself has been active on Trump’s transition team, spent the weekend sharing the conspiracy.

Yes I was aware of the story.  Thats why I mentioned that as long indivudals dont break the law.  I am sure that their similiar stories which don't make the media.  Should the response be to ban "fake news".

josh
josh

X

NDPP

The Democrats 'Russia Hacking' Campaign is Political Suicide

http://counterpunch.org/2016/12/the-democrats-russia-hacking-campaign-is...

"The reason Hillary Clinton lost the election is because she is a polarizing, untrustworthy warmonger. Period. Putin had nothing to do with it. The Democratic Party is disintegrating before our very eyes. This latest 'Russian hacking' diversion is just speeding along the progress."

josh

Clinton wasn't the only Democrat targeted by Russia:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/house-democrats-hacking...

josh

NDPP wrote:

The Democrats 'Russia Hacking' Campaign is Political Suicide

http://counterpunch.org/2016/12/the-democrats-russia-hacking-campaign-is...

"The reason Hillary Clinton lost the election is because she is a polarizing, untrustworthy warmonger. Period. Putin had nothing to do with it. The Democratic Party is disintegrating before our very eyes. This latest 'Russian hacking' diversion is just speeding along the progress."

"The Democrats' Watergate campaign is political suicide.  The reason George McGovern lost was because he was a lousy candidate.  Purusing Watergate will lead to a disintergration of the party."

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

josh wrote:

"The Democrats' Watergate campaign is political suicide.  The reason George McGovern lost was because he was a lousy candidate.  Purusing Watergate will lead to a disintergration of the party."

Off topic, but I've always thought it was very ironic that Nixon likely would have beaten McGovern severely even without whatever information his campaign got from the Watergate break-in. So Nixon lost his presidency because of his own obsessive, paranoid need to be assured of success, without gaining any real benefit from the crimes that forced his resignation.

josh
NDPP

Comey To Trump: The Russians Didn't  Influence the Election

http://newsmax.com/Newsfront/comey-fbi-russia-trump/2016/12/14/id/764008/#

 

House Intel Committee Member: We Oversee CIA; Have No Info on 'Russian Hacking'

http://sptnkne.ws/cYYt

 

Here's the Public Evidence Russia Hacked the DNC - It's Not Enough

http://theintercept.com/2016/12/14/heres-the-public-evidence-russia-hack...

Ward

Who hacked the Russian servers to get this hacking information?

josh

NDPP wrote:

Comey To Trump: The Russians Didn't  Influence the Election

http://newsmax.com/Newsfront/comey-fbi-russia-trump/2016/12/14/id/764008/#

 

House Intel Committee Member: We Oversee CIA; Have No Info on 'Russian Hacking'

http://sptnkne.ws/cYYt

 

Here's the Public Evidence Russia Hacked the DNC - It's Not Enough

http://theintercept.com/2016/12/14/heres-the-public-evidence-russia-hack...

 

Sputnik?  Newsmax?  Scraping the bottom of the barrel there aren't you NDPP?

josh

FBI joins in CIA's conclusion that Russia hacked the DNC to elect Trump.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/report-cia-fbi-dni-agree-russia-di...

ygtbk

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/us-politics/obama-vows-retaliation-for-suspected-russian-hacking/article33344304/

Is no-one considering the Occam's Razor theory that the Republicans just had more boring email? Because the DNC was doing things that in the famous words of FZ, "you shouldn't ought to do". Whereas it was clear from the start that the establishment Republicans wanted Trump taken down: no news there.

josh

Nice try. Actually, pretty lame. Putin wanted Clinton defeated. RNC mail was irrelevant to that task. Although it would be nice for future reference.

ygtbk

josh wrote:
Nice try. Actually, pretty lame. Putin wanted Clinton defeated. RNC mail was irrelevant to that task. Although it would be nice for future reference.

Do you have any evidence that the RNC had as much dirty laundry as the DNC? Because it is clear that Putin would be happier with Trump in power, but it is in no way clear that that was the initial objective. In Ghostbusters terms. the Democrats picked the form of the Destructor.

<rant>

Is it not amusing that the Democrats ran a candidate that was actually defeated (barring a Monday surprise) by Donald Freakin' Trump? Does it not say volumes about their lack of insight that they can't acknowledge this, but have to blame everybody and anyone else?

</rant>

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

ygtbk wrote:

<rant>

Is it not amusing that the Democrats ran a candidate that was actually defeated (barring a Monday surprise) by Donald Freakin' Trump? Does it not say volumes about their lack of insight that they can't acknowledge this, but have to blame everybody and anyone else?

</rant>

This is the natural outcome of becoming a party of careerists, with little or no desire to make any changes that might rock the boat, but all the while attempting to appear "progressive". Culminating in HRC, the candidate so obviously insincere that she made Donald Trump seem like a genuine person.

swallow swallow's picture

ygtbk wrote:

<rant>

Is it not amusing that the Democrats ran a candidate that was actually defeated (barring a Monday surprise) by Donald Freakin' Trump? Does it not say volumes about their lack of insight that they can't acknowledge this, but have to blame everybody and anyone else?

</rant>

Not really. The Repubs ran more than a dozen candidates who were actually defeated by Donald Freakin' Trump.

josh

ygtbk wrote:

josh wrote:
Nice try. Actually, pretty lame. Putin wanted Clinton defeated. RNC mail was irrelevant to that task. Although it would be nice for future reference.

Do you have any evidence that the RNC had as much dirty laundry as the DNC? Because it is clear that Putin would be happier with Trump in power, but it is in no way clear that that was the initial objective. In Ghostbusters terms. the Democrats picked the form of the Destructor.

<rant>

Is it not amusing that the Democrats ran a candidate that was actually defeated (barring a Monday surprise) by Donald Freakin' Trump? Does it not say volumes about their lack of insight that they can't acknowledge this, but have to blame everybody and anyone else?

</rant>


Clinton was a lousy candidate who ran a lousy campaign, but that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Actually two issues: Putin and Comey. What is this "dirty laundry" of which you speak? Disparaging comments in emails? Strategies to hurt the non-establishment candidate? Can you imagine the remarks and strategies towards Trump that must be in the RNC files?

NDPP

The 'Elite' Coup of 2016

https://t.co/cNJBno8kPh

 

iyraste1313

The 'Elite' Coup of 2016...

thanks for this...yes the stakes are deathly high...the CIA is desperate to remove Trump....

keep this coming!

Pages