9/11 Reports

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mmphosis
9/11 Reports

World Trade Center explosives

by Elizabeth Woodworth

Fidel

Oh that Harrit's a scientist. What would he know? It's all a conspiracy like to make the Wall Street Gov., Pentagon kapitalists and CIA look bad. 

Snert Snert's picture

[url=http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/932056--wikileaks-reveals-3-un...  reveals 3 undisclosed members of 9/11 plot[/url] 

Could this be what the Troofers have been patiently and piously waiting for for nearly a decade? Will those three names start with George, Donald and Dick??? Was it a remote-controlled thermo-nanite lazer beam that brought down the holographic airliners after all????

Nope. Evidently even Assange is in the pocket of The Man.

Unionist

From the OP:

Dr. Niels Harrit wrote:
"I hit the button 10 times and my jaw dropped lower and lower."

That's quite the button.

 

jas

Interesting that it's still open season on 9/11 topics here at Babble - especially from posters who not only don't understand but have never been capable of credibly defending the NIST collapse explanations for the WTC.

So who decides what topics will be treated respectfully here? Meanwhile I get suspended for questioning why a poster can't create a thread about a workplace death.

 

Yup.

 

Fidel

They just like defending dubya et al. Don't call them apologists for the right though. They can be fairly sensitive about that. We have to remember that 9/11 was beyond Murder Inc.'s culpability and capability. Pentagon capitalists are too dumb and innocent to have pulled off 9/11 even though they didn't pull it off. "There are no 9/11 whistleblowers." The NIST and Isaac Newton are in complete agreement.  As it was with the Catholic inquisition, they can simply refuse to look through Galileo's telescope. Ignoring the evidence should be worth at least 300 years of denial for them if WW III doesn't happen first.

Pope Teddywang Pope Teddywang's picture

I still think the buildings were supposed to collapse simultaneous with the impact of the planes, and that the last ten years have been a frantic, scrambling exercise in damage control as the Truth slowly sinks in through osmosis.

mmphosis

WikiLeaks: FBI hunts the 9/11 gang that got away

The FBI has launched a manhunt for a previously unknown team of men suspected to be part of the 9/11 attacks, the Daily Telegraph can disclose.

By Steven Swinford, Robert Winnett and Nick Allen in Los Angeles

Fidel

TV reporters on 9/11, Rather, Blitzer, Shin etc said the collapses looked like controlled demolitions. And non-truthers tend to say things that conflict with FEMA and the NIST's official statements. Non-truthers tend to repeat things which not even US Government agencies have stated. I find that a lot of non-truthers begin with pre-conceived notions about 9/11 which are often wrong. Amazing Randi's JREF forums are a total circus. They are mainly disinformation forums where amateurs are let loose to talk about Newtonian physics according to their gut instincts and whatever the previous anonymous poster said.

jas

Fidel wrote:

 Amazing Randi's JREF forums are a total circus. They are mainly disinformation forums where amateurs are let loose to talk about Newtonian physics according to their gut instincts and whatever the previous anonymous poster said.

This is not an overstatement. It's truly incredible there. Jaw-droppingly so. It's not even like newspeak or doublespeak. It's like opposite-speak. It's like Alice-In-Wonderland-speak. Where 1 + 1 = minus 2 and black=white, until the next paragraph, where black is again black, obviously, and if you point out that they've just stated that black=white, then they'll try to pin the craziness on you.

At least here there was some pressure to adhere, via peer oversight, to logical argument. Not so there. Not at all. Circus is an apt word for it. One has to wonder how so many anonymous posters, with so much time on their hands, can possibly have such a personal vested interest in discrediting, automatically, and at every turn, 9/11 inquiry. One does wonder.

Fidel

And in their world, government scientists are never coerced into publishing vague, incomplete or deceptive reports. Not now nor ever with respect to everything from Dub-Gov sponsored climate science denialism to "WMD" in Iraq to a slip-shod cover-up the worst building collapses in history after a low budget investigation that would have made the Lockerbie bombing case involving just one plane look like an inquisition by comparison.

[url=http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/uk/Qaida-plotting-nuclear-9/11-... plotting 'nuclear 9/11', say Wiki cables[/url]

Anyone see that TV series, 'Heroes', where the bad guys plan to detonate a nuke in NYC and then declare martial law afterwards with spying on millions of ordinary peeple, renditions, torture, and everything? I think they need an anti-false flag party alternative down there, or something. Or perhaps just stop funding terrorism altogether, one or the other.

mmphosis
NDPP

The FBI 'Kamikaze' Pilots Case  -  by Sibel Edmonds

http://www.opednews.com/articles/3/The-FBI-Kamikaze-Pilots--by-sibel-edm...

"According to my guys, Bin Laden's group is planning a massive terrorist attack in the United States. They will use airplanes to carry out the attacks.."

Fidel

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

The FBI 'Kamikaze' Pilots Case  -  by Sibel Edmonds

http://www.opednews.com/articles/3/The-FBI-Kamikaze-Pilots--by-sibel-edm...

Sibel Edmonds, a former FBI language specialist, was terminated from the bureau after reporting security breaches, cover-up, and blocking of intelligence with national security implications. Since that time, court proceedings in her whistleblower case have been blocked by the imposition of ?State Secret Privilege,? and Congress has been prevented from discussion of her case through retroactive reclassification by the Department of Justice.

The corruption in American government is pervasive and ongoing. "al-Qaeda" = al-CIA'da. Black op "Treadstone" was upgraded to [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkc6PsrSbs0]"Blackbriar"[/url] after 1989.

 

jas

A Firefighter, A Demolition Expert, and an Architect Look at Ground Zero

on Guns and Butter - KPFA Berkeley mp3

Papal Bull

Fidel wrote:
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkc6PsrSbs0]"Blackbriar"[/url]

 

 

Moby? Ew. The only conspiracy you're in on is the one to launch a false-flag attack against my ears.

Papal Bull

Fidel wrote:

Papal Bull wrote:
Moby? Ew. The only conspiracy you're in on is the one to launch a false-flag attack against my ears.

No, it's just some attention-starved mechanical and civil engineers, architects, eye witnesses, Danish scientist, 9/11 Commissioners, Military officers and former NSA types, aerospace engineers, physicists, Boeing pilots, NYC firefighters and ERs,  a few Congressmen, victims' families, FBI  whistleblowers and the like conspiring to make a bunch of mass murdering warfiteers look worse than they really are. And you?

 

Um, I just don't like Moby and was expecting at least a half-amusing, poorly scripted rant of a website. When I got a Moby song I felt like a fundamental attack on my civil liberties had been orchestrated by the highest powers That Be in the US Imperio-gladio-whateverist state.

Fidel

Papal Bull wrote:
Moby? Ew. The only conspiracy you're in on is the one to launch a false-flag attack against my ears.

No, it's just some attention-starved mechanical and civil engineers, architects, eye witnesses, Danish scientist, 9/11 Commissioners, Military officers and former NSA types, aerospace engineers, physicists, Boeing pilots, NYC firefighters and ERs,  a few Congressmen, a recent Governor of Minnesota and former Navy SEAL, victims' families, FBI  whistleblowers and the like asking far too many difficult questions and conspiring to make a bunch of mass murdering warfiteers look worse than they really are. And you?

Fidel

You are entirely free not to listen to Moby, it's true. And you can always send the Republicans and Langley guys, Pentagon capitalists, CNN, Foxy Newz etc some nicely written thank you letters on your best stationery instead of slumming with us in this thread.

West Coast Greeny

Fidel wrote:

Papal Bull wrote:
Moby? Ew. The only conspiracy you're in on is the one to launch a false-flag attack against my ears.

No, it's just some attention-starved mechanical and civil engineers, architects, eye witnesses, Danish scientist, 9/11 Commissioners, Military officers and former NSA types, aerospace engineers, physicists, Boeing pilots, NYC firefighters and ERs,  a few Congressmen, a recent Governor of Minnesota and former Navy SEAL, victims' families, FBI  whistleblowers and the like asking far too many difficult questions and conspiring to make a bunch of mass murdering warfiteers look worse than they really are. And you?

Have NIST, Popular Mechanics, countless peer-reviewed articles in scientific journals, the large majority of public opinion, and the huge, overwhelming majority opinion of architects, engineers, and scientists. Even the elected officials you're referring to, exempting ONE governor, Jesse Ventura, won't go any further than stating that Bush may have been deliberately neglegent and allowed 9/11 to happen despite prior intellegence. 

Fidel

I haven't seen any professional associations for 9/11 Non-truth, no. And Popular Mechanics is not a peer reviewed sci journal. It's a consumer magazine about ATVs, bbq's, stereos and "mechanix" and owned by some rich people who probably donate to either party of warmongering plutocrats dreaming of war 24/7.

wdsaddasd

This is a good article regarding the matter. The report linked in the OP is nothing more than bad science and wild conclusions. Just because you find something on the internet by a person with a PhD does not make it valid.

Quote:

Now if you want a more scientific evaluation of just some of the problems with the Jones/Harrit/Roberts paper, try this for starters;

Jones investigates only the red and gray chips and not the entire sample. He has a limited sample size. The chips have a laminar nature which suggests a coating or adhesive but he rules out paint by comparing the effect of MEK on some unknown paint and comparing it to the effect on the red chips. This is either incompetence or scientific misconduct and fraud.

He sees that there is an organic fraction but does not analyze it. He uses DSC to measure exotherms but does it in a stream of air so he cannot tell the difference between a reaction and plain combustion of components but claims thermitic reaction. His EDAX shows silicon, aluminum, and oxygen in the same areas of the particle but he ignores this congruency; aluminosilicates are clays and are often fillers in paints and coatings. He does not extract a larger sample of the red and gray chips with a more agressive solvent, such as hot DMF or DMF-DMSO which would allow analysis of individual components.

His conclusion that this is a thermitic material is not justified based on the data.  JREF

Jones, Harrit, and Roberts have not submitted their paper, with samples, to independent labs for verification.  They have not completed the discovery process by scheduling a presentation of their findings to a group of qualified scientists and allowing for educated debate and evaluation of their findings in the public sphere.   Their paper was published in a journal that has questionable academic credentials

http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/more-bad-science-surrounding-...

 

mmphosis
Fidel

wdsaddasd wrote:

This is a good article regarding the matter. The report linked in the OP is nothing more than bad science and wild conclusions. Just because you find something on the internet by a person with a PhD does not make it valid.

They seem to basing their objection on some anonymous poster's opinion at JREF who goes by the handle "Sunstealer" or some such. Harrit is a real scientist with real credentials and with expertise in the area of nanochemistry. lol! Not all chemical engineers can lay claim to Harrit's knowledge of the subject except for a maybe a few dozen academics at Uof Cal. Lawrence Livermore where military grade nanothermites were developed and who are even sometimes known to write counter-truth essays allegedly debunking 9/11 Truth. And even then when they come out in the open tend to get their heads handed to them on platters by truthers.

What's lacking credibility are the JREFers who have not published anything outside of a very unscientific blog site dedicated to a former TV clown turned debunkerist and who recently had to back away from his personal views supportive of the Dubya government's climate science denialism due to so many of his followers figuring it out that James Randi really is a quack afterall.

jas

West Coast Greeny wrote:

Have NIST, Popular Mechanics, countless peer-reviewed articles in scientific journals, the large majority of public opinion, and the huge, overwhelming majority opinion of architects, engineers, and scientists.

Have they... what?

What are these "countless peer-reviewed articles in scientific journals" you are referring to? I am assuming you are referring to authors other than just Bazant. Please cite these papers.

What do you mean by the "large majority of public opinion"? The large majority of public opinion now appears to side with the truthers.

And what "huge, overwhelming majority opinion of architects, engineers, and scientists" are you referring to? Where do you get this idea? Please cite sources. Thanks.

jas

wdsaddasd wrote:

This is a good article regarding the matter. The report linked in the OP is nothing more than bad science and wild conclusions. Just because you find something on the internet by a person with a PhD does not make it valid.

http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/more-bad-science-surrounding-...

 

Oh, look. A peer-reviewed scientific paper "debunked" by an amateur blogger. What a surprise.

I understand the thermite paper actually has remained unchallenged scientifically since it was published.

mmphosis
Fidel

That's a good one, mmphosis. Here's another:

[url=Chemical">http://world911truth.org/explosive-interview-explosives-found-in-world-t... Engineer Mark Basile confirms Harrit's nanothermite[/url]

Basile says thermite residue is there in two samples examined by Basile that should not be there. And it's not just regular thermite, it's highly specialized nanothermite made from substances controlled by US Government. What Basile found should not be there in the dust samples taken from around ground zero. It is. Basile calls on more people with his expertise to do the work and confirm the same results for the sake of scientific truth.

jas

Awesome. Pretty much covers it.

Good primer for our resident truth-skeptics.

NDPP

Top UN Officials Have Public Meltdown Over Calls for New 9/11 Investigation

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23115

"Richard Falk, retired Princeton University professor of international law and a UN appointed human rights expert on the Human Rights Council, was blasted by UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon for suggesting in his Jan 11 blog entry that there was a cover-up regarding some aspects of the official account of 9/11

Falk mentioned 'The reluctance to address the sort of awkward gaps and contradictions in the official explanations...What may be more distressing than the apparent cover-up is the eerie silence of the mainstream media..'

UN Sec-Gen Ban Ki Moon condemned these remarks as 'preposterous'."

Fidel

[url=9/11">http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2011/01/31/911-family-members-demand-ans... Family Members Demand Answers from the 9/11 Commission: The Censored Testimony of FBI’s Behrooz Sarshar[/url] The Witnessed & Documented “Kamikaze Pilots” Case

Sibel Edmonds wrote:
In a public statement issued today (see below), members of the 9/11 Family Steering Committee demanded a prompt response from the former Chairman and Executive Director of the 9/11 Commission regarding Former FBI Language Specialist Behrooz Sarshar's censored testimony to the Commission. The press release was prompted by recently released documents related to the interviews conducted by the 9/11 Commission published at Cryptome.org, in particular the "Memorandum for the Record" containing the Commission's interview with Mr. Sarshar. The memorandum, after establishing Mr. Sarshar's credibility and vaguely referring to his documented and witnessed testimony regarding specific tip(s) provided to the FBI in April and June 2001 regarding planned imminent "Kamikaze Pilots" attacks targeting major cities in the United States, leaves out the entire testimony. This testimony was also entirely left out of the Commission's final report released in July 2004.

They were not tricked by the CIA into waging expensive and illegal wars at taxpayers expense. The war planning dept. let it happen on purpose(LIHOP).

 

mmphosis
Fidel

[url=Black">http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2011/02/11/black-911-a-walk-on-the-d... 9/11: A Walk on the Dark Side[/url]

Mark Gaffney wrote:
In his important 2006 book, Nemesis, the Last Days of the American Republic, the third and concluding part of a trilogy, the late Chalmers Johnson, who was an expert on Japan and US foreign policy, writes that as much as 40% of the Pentagon budget is “black,” meaning hidden from public scrutiny.[1] If the figure is even approximately correct, and I believe it is, the number is alarming because it suggests that democratic oversight of US military research and development has broken down. In which case our democratic values and way of life are presently at risk; not from without, as there is no foreign enemy that can destroy the US Constitution, but from within.

What? You mean to say your Defense Dept accounting people have lost track of $2 trillion in taxpayer's money? The troubleshooters' jobs were made a whole lot easier after 9/11. In every mass murder case, there has to be a motive. No not "Allah" or even revenge against US monuments to capitalism and war planning. The motive was with mammon as usual.

jas

From Fidel's link:

Quote:
Department of Defense (DoD) could not account for $2.3 trillion of the massive Pentagon budget, a number so large as to be incomprehensible.

 

A previous link to that story...

Fidel

And then by some wild coincidence, the "hijackers" flew AA Flight 77 (yeah right!) into the Pentagon and took out the accounting office and about half its employees.

It's all coincidence. Bad luck for the war planning department that they were never obligated to look for much less find the missing $2.3 trillion. Instead of that fool's errand there would be billions of dollars more for counter-gladiooops! , I mean, counter-terrorism.

mmphosis
Fidel

Ha! Circus clowns punk'd by truthers. Good one.

jas

Edited: I think the signs are good, but the guy trying to shout the reporters down sounds like a bozo.

Fidel

West Coast Greeny wrote:
Even the elected officials you're referring to, exempting ONE governor, Jesse Ventura, won't go any further than stating that Bush may have been deliberately neglegent and allowed 9/11 to happen despite prior intellegence.

That's pretty guilty if you ask me. That's treason or gross dereliction of duty at the highest levels, one or the other. Their's is supposed to be a national security military dictatorship since 1947 not a porous line of defense for their own creations, their very own right wing jihadis to come and go at will.

It's a matter for a World Court of Law to prosecute international war crimes, like the Nazis were guilty of false flag attacks on themselves leading to the nazis invasion of Poland.

No, it's like this. The Republicrats and Liberal demohawks in the US admitted to undressing and diving into bed with right wing fundamentalists in Central Asia. Next thing they knew their bellies were swollen with anticommunist, drug trafficking jihadis and right wing extremists from hell. Americans were led to believe they were only aiding and abetting "freedom fighters" in the 1980s and early 90s.

But then they wanted us to believe they severed all relations with their right wing fuck buddies by 1992. They claim there was no more hanky panky under covert covers on the sly. Elvis bin Laden is like this virgin birth fable. The former Osama bin Laden is their baby Jesus, their fairy godmother and raison d'etre for colder war profiteering. If bin Laden didn't exist if only in our minds, they'd have to re-invent him to put the fear of Jeebus into the American public in maintaining an elevated state of national adrenaline.

There were no ongoing relations, or at least according to the CIA and US Military, then or today. This is what the American public is supposed to believe, and all the while they continue to onceal the identities of an entire mid level layer of al-CIA'da operatives still coming and going to the continental USA for US Military training in terrorism and with travel visas rubberstamped by corrupt US Government officials. Sibel Edmonds is the most gagged woman in US history.

NDPP

UN Human Rights Expert Richard Falk Under Fire for 911 Comments (and vids)

http://www.voltairenet.org/article168363.html

"An advocacy group affiliated with the American Jewish Committee, in league with the US State Department, has whipped up a campaign to get law Professor Richard Falk sacked by the UN for his skeptical views on 9/11. In the same move, they would conveniently be getting rid of an outspoken critic of Israeli policy toward the Palestinians.."

 

Fidel

The inquisition is alive and well.

Enduro Man Enduro Man's picture

Fidel wrote:

The inquisition is alive and well.

Questions are weapons.

Why were huge chunks of the 9/11 Commision Report redacted?

Why, when the entire airspace of North America was in lockdown, were members of the Saudi Royal family allowed to board their jets and return to Saudi Arabia?

Why did the US State Department isssue visas and then renew them to known terrorists?

Fidel

And the inquisitors still do not want to know the truth in this day and age of renditions and torture. Torture was not meant as a tool for discovering truth then or today.

Like German citizens were told that their safety and national security was threatened by Polish nationals, some large percentage of us simply trust and obey North American governments without question. Whatever the government says, or refuses to say or redacts from the public record is good enough for them. Bombs away! I sometimes find it difficult to defend Muslims of the crime of 9/11 if only in conversation when so many other leftists accept it as an article of faith that Muslims perpetrated 9/11. There is no proof that this was the case. There wasn't a real investigation or so much as a criminal trial - they just seem to trust whatever it was a handful of government guys said.

Enduro Man Enduro Man's picture

Fidel wrote:

And the inquisitors still do not want to know the truth in this day and age of renditions and torture. Torture was not meant as a tool for discovering truth then or today.

Like German citizens were told that their safety and national security was threatened by Polish nationals, some large percentage of us simply trust and obey North American governments without question. Whatever the government says, or refuses to say or redacts from the public record is good enough for them. Bombs away! I sometimes find it difficult to defend Muslims of the crime of 9/11 if only in conversation when so many other leftists accept it as an article of faith that Muslims perpetrated 9/11. There is no proof that this was the case. There wasn't a real investigation or so much as a criminal trial - they just seem to trust whatever it was a handful of government guys said.

 

mmphosis
Fidel

mmphosis wrote:

Guantánamo detainee pleads guilty to conspiracy with al Qaeda (miamiherald.com)

The Pentagon’s chief war crimes prosecutor, Navy Capt. John F. Murphy, said Noor “was part of the apparatus of al Qaeda,” between 1996 and 2000 at Khaldan. The 9/11 Commission Report said three of the so-called “muscle hijackers” who took part in the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks trained at Khaldan.

And this is another controversial subject, the "muscle hijackers" who by all accounts of their FBI descriptions were not physically imposing at all. We can almost imagine at least one or two cranky Americans beating any would-be hijacker senseless with their luggage for having delayed their ETA's. In the alleged bin Laden confession video from 2002, the bin Laden figure in the video said this:

Quote:
“Those who were trained to fly didn’t know the others. One group of people did not know the other group.”

And yet official reports say that the "al-Qaeda pilots" and hijackers mingled and even rented rooms together in the Fort Lauderdale area:

Quote:
[url=http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timelin... of the muscle hijackers[/url] reportedly settled in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, along with pilots Mohamed Atta, Marwan al-Shehhi, and Ziad Jarrah, while the other muscle hijackers settled in Paterson, New Jersey, along with pilot Hani Hanjour.

Fidel

[url=http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0402-01.htm]FBI Translator Submitted Report Entitled "Kamikaze Pilots" 5 Months Before 9/11 Warning of Al Qaeda Attacks on U.S. Cities[/url] Cosmetic Republican Government was a threat to US National Security. 

Former 9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland wrote:
[url=http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1026-02.htm]"As each day goes by, we learn that this government knew a whole lot more about these terrorists before Sept. 11 than it has ever admitted."[/url]

Cosmetic Gov knew a lot about al-CIA'da.

Fidel

darn

mmphosis
mmphosis
Fidel

Thanks mmphosis.

[url=[/url]">http://ae911truth.org/en/news/41-articles/384-third-beam-shines-light-on...

Quote:
The purpose of the Third Beam -- championed and executed by Barbara Honegger with the enthusiastic support of AE911Truth core team members, NYCCAN and the BuildingWhat? Campaign -- was to break through the media blackout surrounding Building 7’s fall and its censorship by the official 9/11 Commission Report.

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