The Afghan people will win - part 6
July 12, 2009 - 4:38pm
Comic comments by "coalition" leaders
Gordon Brown on roadside bombs:
"There's a clear line, a chain of terror, that links what's happening in Afghanistan and Pakistan to the streets of Britain," he said.
Gordon Brown says someone is succeeding but carefully avoids saying who:
Asked if he was worried the combat operation in Helmand province could become Britain's Vietnam, Brown said: "The operation … is showing signs of success."
Barack Obama believes the insurgency is led by vampires:
"The mission in Afghanistan is one that the Europeans have as much if not more of a stake in than we do."
Brig-Gen Jonathan Vance thinks more Canadian dead and blown up means we're winning:
Mounting casualties and roadside bomb attacks are more a reflection of increased activity by the international coalition than a sign of a strengthening insurgency, Canada's top soldier in Afghanistan said in a weekend interview with The Canadian Press.
They're dying faster than we are (but no specifics on how many of them there are):
"Yes, there are times when we take killed or wounded in action, but it pales in comparison to the killed and wounded that the insurgency has taken when facing us," said Vance.
And while it may look as if we're losing, opinion polls don't lie:
He said that based on polls and informal feedback, the security situation in Kandahar province, where the Canadians are based, has improved since February 2008.
How 'bout, The Afghan people are further behind than ever after 30 years of western meddling in Central Asia - and war and warfiteering still reign merrily in Afghanistan ?
Since when was the Soviet Union in the west?
The Afghan people will win. Count on it.
4 U.S. Marines killed
The troops died in two separate improvised roadside bomb attacks on Saturday, US forces spokeswoman Christina Sidenstricker said.
The latest deaths mean US forces are suffering their highest casualty rates since operations began in 2001.
UK forces are also suffering heavy losses, with 15 killed in 10 days. US President Barack Obama has praised the ongoing military effort.
I knew it! Obama supports the insurgency!!!
Since when was the Soviet Union in the west?
Zbigniew and Osama before "blowback" Ya right
Guess which one of these old line party hawks is still there embedded in shadow government in the USsA after three decades worth of this same nonsense? It's a phony war.
No they are not winning anything. I think you do wish them well, but the truth is that they are not winning in a war that is rigged. The fix was in long ago against desperately poor people in a country that UN officials say is home to some of the most abused and downtrodden women and children in the world. The truth is that ordinary Afghans are taking a thorough shellacking from all sides in this phony war. There are no such things as basic human rights in yet another US client state in this colder war setup on the other side of the world where NATO has no business being. They have no business being in Afghanistan real or imagined period. USSR's gone, and this shit is still happening.
Let's rise against the war crimes of US and its fundamentalist lackeys!
Afghan War debate heats up in the UK
Taliban hit Canadian model village
Afghanistan chopper crash kills 6
Ouch!
There's some excellent commentary on the false reasoning that's used to justify the war in Afghanistan, here. When it boils down to it, it makes no sense whatsoever to collectively punish (read: terrorize) a country because of the actions of some people in that country.
It's not immediately clear who owns the helicopter, the US military says, but the ISAF spokesman seems sure enough to say it's a "private helicopter."
It was a "white transport helicopter" carrying only civilians, whose nationalities "aren't immediately known," the story says.
Some mystery, eh?
ETA: An Afghan child was reportedly killed on the ground when the helicopter crashed.
"A spokesman for Nato-led forces in the country said the helicopter had been carrying civilian contract workers."
- GuardianMilitary recruits drawn to jobs, not combat, poll finds Ottawa Citizen
OTTAWA - It's all about the career - not the combat.
That's the message the Canadian Forces should pitch to young recruits, according to recently released polling research on potential military advertising campaigns.
The Department of National Defence commissioned polling firm Phoenix Strategic Perspectives to test potential ad concepts among focus groups of Canadians aged 18 to 34 who are involved or interested in skilled trades.
The clear favourite was a TV ad with the tagline, "This is my job." . . .
The research report recommends that future recruiting ads emphasize such elements as "learning opportunities," "skills development" and "free education."
By contrast, the ads should downplay combat themes, avoid dark or gloomy environments and ominous music, and steer clear of "anything that suggests CF is recruiting soldiers/front-line personnel"
Flip burgers for tuition? Or join the army, earn $50 thousand after two or three years, and have post-secondary paid for by the taxpayers? They dont seem to want to rely on private enterprise when they want something doing right. They turn to socialism when it suits them.
Economic conscription. Gotta love it.
Guess which one of these old line party hawks is still there embedded in shadow government in the USsA after three decades worth of this same nonsense? It's a phony war.
Are you trying to imply that the man pictured here with Zbigniew Brzezinski is Osama bin Laden? I guess you must think they all just look the same, because it's not.
Are you trying to imply that the man pictured here with Zbigniew Brzezinski is Osama bin Laden? I guess you must think they all just look the same, because it's not.
Oh Lord, here we go.
Could I prevail on you, pretty please, not to get sucked in to this conspiracy stuff? We've tried to keep these threads relatively clear for news and events about the Afghan struggle against the invaders. Thanks.
Yes, A_J, youve raised some concern about Osama bin Laden. OBL was an above average anti-communist. And CIA and Britis own a notorious reputation for aiding and abetting international terrorists, and even providing sanctuary for them while theyve been on the lam from international justice. And false flag terrorism, it is said, was a cold war era phenomenon but is no more. Or so they say. Youre your own person and a thinking man, I can tell.
Crashing bores of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your threads!
Look, if you want to discuss the blood and gore aspect of this phony war only or just be babble's official body count ticker for the Stan, then why dont you wait for someone with the same interest to reply to your very one dimensional posts? It's easy peasy. But by all means you are under no obligation to smear any of me or Lesley Hughes or anyone you doesnt agree with you about this phony war or the false pretext for it happening. You dont even have to disrupt other people from having a thread discussion. Did anyone ever teach you any manners for Christ's sake?
Afghanistan, a desperately poor country before and after US meddling since 1979, did not attack your precious America or even the fucking Liberal Party of Bananada, okay? So why in hell are the Yanks there now and leading yet another illegal military occupation of a sovereign country? If you dont have the answers or are entirely uninterested as to the why? altogether, then just butt out.
Fidel, how about starting off by deleting that fraudulent "Osama" photo? Don't you think ludicrous crap like that weakens your conspiracy theories rather than strengthening them?
And I'd start a real thread on this phony war, but you continue to regenerate the same idiotic thread title over and over. Why dont you give us a general outline as to how exactly these desperately poor people will go about winning this phony war waged between the US military and their jihadi friends in phony opposition?
And why dont you tell us how wrong Afghan women of RAWA are about what's happening in their own country? Oh wait, their opinions of their own recent history and your rabid anticommunist rhetoric dont seem to mesh for some reason. And let's see now - youve tried to blackball myself and others for daring to discuss what is essentially recent history of the Afghan conflict from 1979 through today. Youre off Malalai Joya for Malalai having given a speech at the NDP convention. And now youve attempted to smear Leslie Hughes for her excellent adventure in, what was it, internet conspiracy theories started by five mainstream news agencies(actually the German BND, Russian intel as well as Mossad) around the world in 2002? You, Pete Kent, the Liberal Party of Bananada, and Zbigniew are on quite a roll yourselves imo, U.
Who is Osama bin Laden? This Canadian academic has done his homework on OBL and this ongoing phony war on terrorism. What do anonymous internet babblers have to say about that?
Fidel
What is the German BND?
Fidel
What is the German BND?
German BND, formerly Gehlen Organization during the cold war era, which was essentially what was left of Himmler's SS and were paid by the democratic west to spy on our WW II allies, the Russians. And during the war they were Hitler's intel agency.
The BND's informants in East Germany were mostly Stasi double agents who were blackmailing Reinhard Gehlen and his SS into providing Stasi with intel about the West during cold war. It's said that this is part of the reason the US and Britis had never really penetrated the Soviet Union and were mostly unaware of the political changes happening in Moscow in the 1970s and 80's. The Brits always crowed about their cold war spy expertise against the Soviets, but they, too, were infiltrated by double-crossing communist sympathizers right there in England.
Why dont you give us a general outline as to how exactly these desperately poor people will go about winning this phony war waged between the US military and their jihadi friends in phony opposition?
The Afghan people will destroy the invaders and send them screaming out of their country, as they have always done (go visit some British and Soviet military graveyards). They will also not appreciate visits from their phoney "friends" from abroad who lecture them on what kind of culture and government they should adopt to replace the "primitive" traditions they have established over the millennia.
You mean, my pointing out how the Afghan villagers humiliated the "Red" Army and helped contribute to the collapse of the Soviet Union? Sorry, I didn't realize that was a symptom of rabies. Was I mistaken - did the Soviets actually prevail? Goddamn history never was my favourite subject.
You're right, I've asked for you to be banned from all internet discussion boards. It's my main goal in life. You see, I'm terrified that you'll blow my cover and reveal my involvement in that Twin Tower
accidentmishapattackoh damn, they're on to me...Anyone who speaks to an NDP convention is morally bankrupt, a traitor to their people, and suffers from zits. Everyone knows that, and it's my freedom of religion to maintain that view here!
Yes. I hate Lesley Hughes. I fear Lesley Hughes. I abhor Lesley Hughes. Stephen Harper, Stéphane Dion, and Bernie Farber were right. She should be drummed out of the country, never mind just the Liberal Party. My only question, Fidel, is this: After all those threads I opened to defend her - before you even heard of her - how did you see right through my phoney rhetoric??? Where did I slip up!!???
Would you please keep QUIET? I'm on my weekly conference call with Zbig and the Doctor and Tricky Dicky and Iggy, and I can barely hear well enough to unscramble the signal!!!!!!!
Oh, by the way, to return to the topic, could you please stop embarrassing yourself further and DELETE the pretend picture of Osama Bin Ladin? Thanks.
Thank you fidel.
On last night's CBC National they had a young soldier, who took video's of his time there, spewing propaganda about staying. It seems the push is on to change the hearts and mind's of Canadians, before we are supposed to leave.
"Oh why don't we think of the children, who have nothing"
Meanwhile of course nothing was said about, them having less than they had before we started destroying their country, so the drug cartels, oil gas and mining socio-paths could rape them and their country.
You are right about that push remind. Let's just hope that Obama is not able to convince Harper to go back on his word to leave in 2011. For some reason I have a feeling we will bow to the Americans...not sure why, just a hunch.
The Afghan people will destroy the invaders and send them screaming out of their country, as they have always done (go visit some British and Soviet military graveyards).
The difference between the British occupation and the Russian occupation is that during the British occupation, the Afghan people did liberate themselves. During and after the Russian occupation until 1996, the forces that largely freed Afghanistan of the Russians were the CIA, ISI, Iranian and Saudi trained, armed and financed radical Muslim mujahideen - among them the Taliban. After this current war started in 2001 until now, those Afghans who are doing the fighting and killing are largely either the latest incarnation of the mujahideen (Taliban included) or the U.S, U.K., Canadian, etc., backed Northern Alliance warlords, who are as bad or worse. As Malalai Joya puts it, 'the Afghan people are caught between the frying pan and the fire.'
Needless to say, OBL is not in Fidel's photo. But the overall point Fidel is making stands. Correct me if I am wrong, but the man beside Zbigniew is a Pakistani soldier. This photo suggests the CIA supported (as it did, in fact) the Zia regime and its suppression of the Pakistani people and the CIA's, ISI's and Pakistan government's involvement in the Soviet Afghan war.
Harper would go back on his word the minute Canadians poll rising approval.
They are now just busy manufacturing consent as they always do. Plus perhaps utilizing means to divide the progressive community too, so there will be no solidarity against their manufacturing of colonial support.
Thanks FrmrSldr. That recap of Afghan history is important in understanding where they are at today, and that Afghanistan did not attack the United States of America on 9/11/01. And neither did Iraq for that matter, but Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, two war criminals, continue to tell gatherings of rich people these same terrible lies.
Where did you slip up? You insinuated in the other thread that Lesley Hughes was participating in internet conspiracy theorizing when she wrote about a story that was only beginning to make rounds on the internet in 2002. That is a lie as I explained to you several times with no reply from you. In fact, the story was not just making rounds on the internet. The sources were international intelligence agencies and stories broke by no less than five mainstream news agencies in various countries. I'm sorry, U, but recent history and the truth are much bigger than any of you, Pete Kent, the Liberal Party of Bananada, or any other proxy members of the Can-Am House on unAmerican Activities Committee. Way bigger.
Oh well no kidding, Frmrsldr, sorry to be sarcastic, but the entire world knows that, and the U.S. proudly admits their shameless interference in the Soviet Afghan war.
Fidel's problem is that he thinks the U.S. defeated the Soviets in Afghanistan. He thinks the U.S. and Soviet Union were/are all-powerful, and the lowly peasants couldn't possibly defeat them. That's why he hates the thread title here. That's why he freaks out whenever someone says that the Vietnamese people defeated the U.S. in their war.
It's the same mindset that underlies 9/11 conspiracy theories. How could a handful of non-CIA-equipped amateurs bring a superpower to its knees? It must have been an inside job. Only the U.S. can attack itself.
That's also why he calls this a "phony war" - because there is no insurgency, you see. It's just the U.S. fighting against its own paid hirelings, the Taliban. It's all play-acting, to divert attention from... something or other. The notion that real live ordinary Afghan youth plant bombs and blow the Big Boys to smithereens is anathema to him. It's all phony, you know.
Pardon my skepticism. The Afghan people don't need to be paid off to fight the crusaders. The people of Vietnam didn't need any Chinese or Soviet troops to prevail. The U.S. and its allies can't possibly win. It's only a matter of time.
The people of Vietnam didn't need any Chinese or Soviet troops to prevail.
They need thier arms and supplies.
Beautiful. Hey U, why dont you point us to that other US government web page where they officially deny having anything to do with NATO's false flag terrorism in Europe while youre going. Because we all know the US doesnt do terrorism and especially the Cubans and Latin American targets of the notorious School of the Americas. In fact, theyre enjoying yet another US-sponsored military coup in the original banana republic as we speak.
Just wrap yourself in old Glory, U, and get it over with. Youve outed yourself again.
Except for the US and Chinese backed Khmer Rouge, the Vietnamese also didnt have to contend with US and Saudi and Pak sponsored mercenaries from over 40 different countries rolling in over the borders. Unionist says history is not a strong subject matter for him. But at the same time, he doesnt seem to care either.
Keep dreaming, Webgear, that the U.S. would have won if they weren't fighting with "one arm tied behind their back", as they whined in those days. You and Fidel share quite the scornful view of the capacity of oppressed people to liberate themselves. It's the same mindset which says, "Oh, let's send in some armies to bring them democracy and prosperity."
The Afghan people will win - the only question is, how many wasted lives it will take.
They also needed their contacts in the international drug cartels, both legal and non, in order to sell their opium to fund their arms purchases and pay offs. And that is almost as simplified as unionist's skeletal depiction.
The Afghan war that started in 1979 contributed to the demise of the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union was not the only country destroyed by this war that we are fighting today. Unquestionably, the legacy of this war is that it will destroy America as well.
The only question is will the Afghans liberate themselves and form their own government like Vietnam, or will either the Taliban, insurgents or some warlord(s) who have/are committing atrocities against the people win and form the next government like Cambodia?
I fear for the Afghan people.
Why is everybody so convinced that the man in the picture isn't OBL?
Good question M Spector, I was wondering about that too.
The only question is will the Afghans liberate themselves and form their own government like Vietnam, or will either the Taliban, insurgents or some warlord(s) who have/are committing atrocities against the people win and form the next government like Cambodia?
That's not the only question. The first question is when will the occupying troops leave or be defeated. Then comes your question, which can only be answered by the Afghan people.
But youre forgetting recent history. The truth is that the Yanks won every major confrontation with the VietNamese but lost the PR battle. It is true that the typical scenario was for US army units to go out on search and destroy ie. aggressive combat missions. And then they would find themselves surrounded and bogged down in jungle firefights. Call in the airstrikes, and one US chopper pilot then said they would fly out dead and wounded for weeks on end until they were, themselves, numb with grief over the blood spilled so senselessly. By the end, rabble's own veteran of that war , Jerry West said that US troops' will to continue the fight began to waver. They realized that they were lied to about their mission in VietNam.
And as former General McNamara said about the pretext for LBJ waging all out war on North VietNam being a total lie, ie. the alleged Gulf of Tonkin incident, so is the pretext for invading and occupying Afghanistan a terrible lie for the purpose of warfiteering. And I believe this time around there is a primary purpose to the colder war manouvering in Central Asia to create a permanent US military base there to defend what will ultimately be private property rights for multinational energy companies to construct and maintain gas and oil pipelines. And that is a motive for the mass murder and warfiteering which North American news journalists are still afraid and discouraged from addressing. They are headed off at the pass by American inquisitors and their Canadian counterparts before any of this truth can be revealed to the public at large. And it will be revealed years later as was the warfiteering agenda and illegal and immoral military occupation of VietNam by French colonials, Japanese, and then US military after WW II.
It's a given that generations of Afghans have already and will continue to pay dearly with their lives and future of that country for this latest illegal and immoral colder war manouvering in Central Asia.
Sounds like CF communiqués about all the insurgents they kill after every "campaign" - except the cowardly insurgents won't stand up and fight face to face like men.
Somehow, those insurgents just keep coming and coming and coming... must cost a fortune to hire all those actors... And they will win.
Sounds like CF communiqués about all the insurgents they kill after every "campaign" - except the cowardly insurgents won't stand up and fight face to face like men.
Somehow, those insurgents just keep coming and coming and coming... must cost a fortune to hire all those actors... And they will win.
We've read how young Afghans are recruited to the Taliban. A year or so ago there were reports that the Taliban were paying significantly more on monthly rate to Taliban recruits than were the Afghan police and army at that point.
The VietNamese, otoh, were motivated by neither money nor rewards of an afterlife with Allah for giving their lives to suicide bombings. The NVA communicated with one another by a language of the jungle - a broken branch or fern leaves placed a certain way was code for where the Kalashnikovs were stashed. Which was sometimes a shallow camouflage of water by the river's edge and picked out of the mud weeks after being placed there. A broken twig pointed the safe path around deadly booby traps etc. One Canadian volunteer to the war said the heat of the jungle was oppressive. And the relentless attacks on their troops by women and children alone represented a psychological defeat for them. ~"The horror. The horror." - Brando as General Kurtz
Keep dreaming, Webgear, that the U.S. would have won if they weren't fighting with "one arm tied behind their back", as they whined in those days. You and Fidel share quite the scornful view of the capacity of oppressed people to liberate themselves. It's the same mindset which says, "Oh, let's send in some armies to bring them democracy and prosperity."
The Afghan people will win - the only question is, how many wasted lives it will take.
Unionist, it maybe hard to believe however the Soviets and Chinese did supply the Vietnamese weapons, munitions and supplies.
They also provide instructors and guidance to the Vietnamese.
Could the Vietnamese win a fight and win against the US and her allies in the timeframe that they did without the help of Soviets and Chinese is doubtful at best.
I would like to know who you include in your term the "Afghan people"
I'd like to know why you are abetting the commission of war crimes.
The Afghan people are the ones killing your crusader army.
In my view and my own actions, I am trying to prevent war crimes.
In your opinion, Webgear, would you say that US soldiers today are the more capable killers than those who were drafted to serve in VietNam? Would today's soldiers be less likely to think twice and hesitate before pulling the trigger and filling someone full of holes than those who still suffer post-trauma disorders from VietNam and even WW II living today?
In your opinion, Webgear, would you say that US soldiers today are the more capable killers than those who were drafted to serve in VietNam? Would today's soldiers be less likely to think twice and hesitate before pulling the trigger and filling someone full of holes than those who still suffer post-trauma disorders from VietNam and even WW II living today?
With that in mind, check out this web page:
http://dahrjamailiraq.com/tomgram-dahr-jamail-a-secret-history-of-dissen...
In my view and my own actions, I am trying to prevent war crimes.
You're doing one hell of a job webgear.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8763367484184611493
NR
If you are implying that I have committed a crime please provide proof or retract your statement.
But you are/were in a military force which is an ally of the people who committed these atrocities. That is aiding and abetting, and you might as well be cindoning their evil actions. Do you think that documentary is fiction? And the people who see crimes being commiitted and do nothing, are they not just as guilty as the people that commit the crimes. Don't you dare come here and try to defend what is taking place in Afghanistan. The allies are no better than Al Capone's hoods, and I do not support our troops..
In 2001, there were no Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan. In 2002, the first contingent of soldiers was sent. How did they get there? Did they send themselves? No, of course not. They were sent by the government. Since 2006, the Harper administration has put before the House not one, but two war resolutions escalating Canada's military engagement in Afghanistan.
The troops are like the workers of the world. They are exploited by the officer class, the arms industry and the state. Like most Canadians, they joined the military and ended up in Afghanistan and support the war because they believe the lies told to them about Afghanistan by the government, the military and the sold out mainstream media.
Evil triumphs when good people fail to act. But it is not easy for soldiers to actively and publicly oppose the war. I know. Until February of this year, I was a Canadian Army Reservist. As a Reservist, I had the luxury to choose (unlike in the Regular Forces) whether I went to Afghanistan or not. To aid my decision, I did some research to inform myself on Afghanistan. When I learned of all the lies that are circulating in our society, I was outraged. I publicly voiced my opposition to the war as a soldier. I was nearly Court Martialed for it. In the end, I was given a 'voluntold' honorable discharge. I was lucky. A Reg. Force soldier might not be. For actively and publicly opposing the war, a soldier faces arrest, a Court Martial and if convicted, time in a military prison and a dishonorable discharge after the sentence is served. A dishonorable discharge stays on one's record permanently and prevents one from getting a job with the federal government, any fed gov agency, federal Crown Corporation, etc.
What can we do to end the war? We can bring the maximum amount of pressure to bear on the government and convince as many of our friends to do the same and ecourage them to encourage their friends and so on, thereby multiplying our number.
We need to decouple or delink the idea that supporting the war and the government, whose policy is war, is identical to supporting the troops. My slogan is:
Support the Troops.
Support Peace.
Bring our Troops home Now!
A slim majority of Canadians oppose the country's participation in the war in Afghanistan, with the strongest opposition coming from Quebec, an EKOS poll suggests.
The poll, commissioned for the CBC and released Thursday, asked: "Do you support or oppose Canadian military participation in Afghanistan?"
Voters' intentions
'If a federal election were held tomorrow, which party would you vote for?'
Source: EKOS
Nationally, 54 per cent said they opposed it, while 34 per cent said they supported it, according to the poll. Twelve per cent were undecided.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/07/15/ekos-afghanistan-mission-suppo...
So, whose crimes are you trying to prevent? NATO's, who's very presence is an international crime, or the people of Afghanistan who defend their country from a war of aggression they did not initiate?
A Canadian soldier was killed while conducting operations in the Panjwaii district of Afghanistan, the Canadian Forces said on Thursday.
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/07/16/canadian-soldier-killed.htmlSupport the Troops.
Support Peace.
Bring our Troops home Now!
But how are we supposed to do this, when there are people like webgear, and the young soldier on CBC a few days ago, that are propagandists for the killing of Afghans under the guise of:
"oh why, won't we think of the women and children?"
... the young soldier on CBC a few days ago, that are propagandists for the killing of Afghans under the guise of:
"oh why, won't we think of the women and children?"
This is an example of how we are socially conditioned by the state to support war and the state (government). This was a propaganda piece by the Canadian military. If one is a soldier and (Sieg Heil!) unquestionably supports the war, then you get to step before the mike and the cameras and make public statements about how much you love smoking er, war - activities that are injurious to one's own (and that of others) life and health. If one is a soldier, or the family of a soldier, who are critical of the war - look at all the obstacles the military puts in the way to either intimidate (discourage) or shut these persons up altogether.
The argument has an obvious internal contradiction: Soldiers are not 'built' to do humanitarian work. Soldiers do not 'do' humanitarianism. Soldiers are 'built' to kill. Soldiers 'do' war. It's all part of George Orwell's "1984" "goodspeak": War = Peace. Hate = Love. Murder = Humanitarian Assistance.
If we really gave a damn about the women and children of Afghanistan, then where were we during the years 1990 - 1996 when the Afghan civil war raged? Where were we during 1996 - 2001 when the Taliban were in power - assisted by the CIA, the U.S. State Department, the Pentagon, Pakistan's ISI, and the Saudi and Iranian governments? Why did/are we supporting and propping up the puppet Karzai government and the Northern warlords with our zoidbot troops rather than allow the Afghan people to form and elect the government they want?
In fairness, if that is of any recognizable interest to you, I seem to recall Webgear stating more than once on the board that he opposed the ongoing military actions in Afghanistan.
Actually, they do a lot of what looks to be on the surface humanitarian work, in many areas of the world. Schools, roads, bridges, hospitals, clinics, water purification, etc. In actuality, when it's done, it forms part of either a PR campaign, good will gestures as part of official visits to other nations, or in the Afghanistan context, Psychological Operations (PSYOPS) as one of the vital components of the three block war.
Really, see above where he says he believes he is stopping war crimes.
In fairness, if that is of any recognizable interest to you, I seem to recall Webgear stating more than once on the board that he opposed the ongoing military actions in Afghanistan.
Well, it really doesn't seem to be getting a lot done. In fact the war has expanded as opposed to settled.
Taken in the context of the example provided regarding the Vietnamese receiving outside assistance in their struggle against American fascism, it seemed not so much of a means of casting doubt on the inevitability of western defeat as it was a recognition that other players are involved behind the Afghan insurgency on the battlefield The observation is a legitimate one, which doesn't take anything away from the effectiveness of people to defend their own country against invaders, but that recognizes other influences as well. It isn't the same at all to describe it as support for war crimes. You really should get beyond insinuations of this sort, which if my memory is correct, were similar to the ones you've subscribed to me not so long ago.
Let that be a reality check for him then about the extent of his influence.
More interesting stuff from the EKOS poll linked by Caissa above:
The survey suggests the strongest opposition exists in Quebec, with 73 per cent of those polled saying they didn't support Canada's participation. Fifteen per cent offered their support. [...]
Opposition was very high among women across the country, with 60 per cent saying Canada should not be involved in Afghanistan and 27 per cent saying it should. [...]
When it comes to political leanings and support for the mission, Conservative voters were on top with 51 per cent saying Canada should be in Afghanistan. Liberal voters were second with 31 per cent, and Green voters were at 26 per cent.
Twenty per cent of NDP voters said they supported participating in the mission, while 11 per cent of Bloc Québécois voters did.
Hopefully the Bloc will unblock its ears, hear this message, and call for immediate withdrawal - which they have never done - and hopefully the NDP will recall the resolution they adopted in September 2006 and stay the course.
Everyone is guilty of war crimes, except the dispossessed, destitute and disfranchized people of Afghanistan. They are the ones victimized.
Our policy of handing over POWs to Afghan authorities where we know they are tortured, is a war crime. Sure the policy was stopped from December 2007 - March 2008. When it was resumed, Harper stated that adequate reforms had been made and prisoner abuse was no longer an issue. The mainstream media has certainly dropped it as a hot topic.
Our policy of 'dial-a-strike' whenever we take hostile fire near a village and civilian casualties result, is a war crime.
Our policy of 'popping' white phosphorus around where Afghans are injured or killed, is a war crime.
Some Taliban and insurgents are guilty of human rights atrocities and war crimes committed either in this war or the civil war.
Some Northern warlords (some MPs in the Karzai government) are guilty of human rights atrocities and war crimes (mostly) committed in the civil war.
http:www.warlordsofafghanistan.com/mohhamad-qasim-fahim.php
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/the-warlords-casting-a-shad...
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_EastKD10Ak04.html
http://www/rawa.org/temp/runews/2009/06/01/haqqani-network-the-most-dead...
jttp://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/08/03/03/malalai-joya-canada-should-change-its-policy-on-afghanistan.html
Case in point, he says, is the March announcement that DND will be spending half a bil on new armed drones (unmanned aerial vehicles, UAVs) to be available in 2012, similar to the Predators and Reapers used by the U.S. in its air strikes in Pakistan.
"While the role of ground troops may diminish simply because the army is exhausted from years of war, the air force could be called upon to support the U.S.-led combat mission through air strikes by CF-18 fighter bombers or armed drones," says Staples.
He predicts that Canada is about to repeat the mistakes made by our NATO allies, whose aircraft killed more than 500 Afghan civilians in 2008 alone, and by the U.S., whose drones used for assassination attempts in Pakistan are also responsible for hundreds of civilian deaths.
Source
Staples has been pushing this CF-18 rumour for months as part of his fundraising drive, with no credible source for this rumour except one crank (Sullivan) and some solicited speculative interviews, none of which confirm this. But he keeps pushing, for some odd reason.
"My own judgement... quite frankly is we are not going to ever defeat the insurgency. My reading of Afghan history is that it's probably had an insurgency forever, of some kind." Prime Minister Stephen Harper in a CNN interview, March 1 2009.
After the body politic (the political leaders) has acted, it takes a while for it to sink into the consciousness of the brain (the people).
While the British public is starting to question the war, it seems the war fools never learn.
http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/thatseemsfair/ft02.html
http://news.antiwar.com/2009/07/16/gates-us-may-send-even-more-troops-to...
Staples has been pushing this CF-18 rumour for months as part of his fundraising drive, with no credible source for this rumour except one crank (Sullivan) and some solicited speculative interviews, none of which confirm this. But he keeps pushing, for some odd reason.
Yes, who would be so crazy as to think Stephen Harper wants to find a way to keep the war going after 2011, while giving the ground troops a rest?
Staples has been pushing this CF-18 rumour for months as part of his fundraising drive, with no credible source for this rumour except one crank (Sullivan) and some solicited speculative interviews, none of which confirm this. But he keeps pushing, for some odd reason.
Yes, who would be so crazy as to think Stephen Harper wants to find a way to keep the war going after 2011, while giving the ground troops a rest?
I'm talking about the CF-18 unsubstantiated rumour, Spector, if you could slow down and hold back the cynicism for a minute. Did you think I was running cover for Harper? Oh, and for your information, could you show me specifically where the Rideau institute maintains a position for complete immediate withdrawal of Canadian and NATO troops from Afghanistan? I have trouble with someone preparing the groundwork for political "victory" when we find out that the CF-18s will not be deployed after all.
Dawn Black broke this CF-18 story three years ago, based on credible government sources.
At that time, the government was spending $34 million to acquire drone technology. Now they're upping that to half a billion.
You can laugh it off if you like, but it's clear the military is ready to deploy aerial forces to Afghanistan on short notice, on Harper's say-so.
Herr Harper and Obomba are simply defending Canada and America from "al-Qa'eda" and Taliban terrorism. It's just that, like the Nazis, our troops and mechanized military units have to fly in and march across sovereign borders into far away resource-rich and militarily strategic countries occupied by interesting people of exotic cultures, and murder them in order to defend Ottawa and Washington several thousand kilometres removed from the actual scene of the crime.
But this is half of the story. The overall lie for this phony humanitarian war waged by a US-led NATO contingency is none other than 9/11. And some lefties suggest that we are not supposed to question the validity of 9/11 as a pretext for phony war on the other side of the world so close the borders of our cold war enemies - and officially considered enemies as recently as 1991 or so. In effect they are supporting the false pretext for imperialism when they suggest, in roundabout ways, that these colder war enemies are legitimate enemies of today's colder war hawks and embeded cold warriors still lurking behind the scenes in Warshington, London, Ottawa etc
And some lefties suggest that we are not supposed to question the validity of 9/11 as a pretext for phony war on the other side of the world so close the borders of our cold war enemies...
I don't know of anyone on the left who accepts 9/11 as a pretext for the war on Afghanistan. So you can lose that particular straw man.
Body of fallen Canadian soldier on way home
Do you think when we said, "Bring the troops home!", we ought to have been more specific?
Although I support the manner that you choose to describe these events, I just can't bring myself to share in the humour.
And some lefties suggest that we are not supposed to question the validity of 9/11 as a pretext for phony war on the other side of the world so close the borders of our cold war enemies...
I don't know of anyone on the left who accepts 9/11 as a pretext for the war on Afghanistan. So you can lose that particular straw man.
In 2001, Chomsky suggests that OBL was responsible for 9/11. He says the CIA recruited, armed, and financed Osama bin Laden and other "Afghans" for holy old CIA orchestrated an anti-communist jihad against the then Soviet-backed government of moderates in Afghanistan.
But then Chomsky says that bin Laden's relationship to the CIA is not particularly important after Soviet withdrawal in 1989 - and that the "Afghan" holy warriors simply moved on to other holy jihads, like Chechnya and Bosnia. Chomsky doesnt seem to be aware of the Clinton administrations involvement in helping create a militant Islamic state of Bosnia in the 1990s. Chomsky seems to acknowledge the CIA's anticommunist jihad of the 1980's but then suggests that bin Laden and "Afghan" mujahideen began to take on anti-Russian jobs of their own designs. The CIA's database of expendible jihadi assets began taking the CIA's destabilization effort to America's only recently retired cold war enemies to Russia, Russia's faithful ally and formerly sovereign country of Yugoslavia, as well as China's front gates. Chomsky bought-in to the idea early on that the CIA was once allied with bin Laden and slid more money and effort to operation "stir up a few muslims"(operation cyclone) than any other CIA covert operation in the company's history. It's not important, said Chomsky. Well it is important to the CIA and Pentagon, because now theyre using their former Islamic gladio allies - some who were trained in the black art of terrorism either there in the USsA or one of the many schools for terrorism they funded in Pakistan and Afghanistan in the 1980s - as a pretext for a military occupation in Central Asia and even an oil-rich MiddleEastern country that had zero relationship with the Islamic wing of the CIA ie. "al-Qa'eda" There is no straw man argument here just a gatekeeper and a few stirred-up Muslims now fanned-out across Central Asia and running around Iraq and putting hits on the true anti-American insurgents in that country devastated by a well known Osama bin Laden ally for a number of cold war years - the US military and CIA.
Although I support the manner that you choose to describe these events, I just can't bring myself to share in the humour.
I respect your feelings. As for me, I'd rather joke about the cadavers than send replacements. These murderer commanders who shed crocodile tears over our young people should be in the front lines.
Although I support the manner that you choose to describe these events, I just can't bring myself to share in the humour.
And I'd rather joke about "al-Qa'eda", and America's only recently besmirched former proxy government in Kabul, the Taliban - today's replacements for the evol Soviets and who we're all supposed to fear and loathe all the way back here in Bananada.
No fears, SJ. Provocateurs need brains, skill, and a sense of humour to draw blood. No such caution needed here.
Good one, SJ. DAY-O!
The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan: Khanjar or the Last Nail in the Coffin of Obama's Strategy
http://theunjustmedia.com/
"A few defenseless Afghans pushed the Americans and 46 other countries of the world to the wall. Talib, Mujahid, farmers, old men, women, children and the climate have fused into one, dealing a dashing blow to the enemy, giving them an exemplary lesson...
The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan reminds them of the statement of Amir Momineen some eight years ago when he addressed them on Shariat Radio saying "your cutting edge weapons have the power to kill but no power to protect you from death. Do not be over confident about your weapons.."
I think our troops should be more fearful of the cutting edge training in guerilla warfare and terrorism the Taliban received in US taxpayer and Saudi funded public school systems created in 1980's Pakistan and Afghanistan. Again they know not to leave the really important stuff to private enterprise.
NATO air strike blamed for civilian deaths in Kandahar
Residents of a small village north of Kandahar in Afghanistan say a NATO air strike Wednesday night killed at least four civilians.
The people were killed in Shah Wali Kot, a village about 30 kilometres north of Kandahar and an area where Taliban insurgents have been operating for months.
"There were some casualties. There was a total number of 17. Four were dead," Kandahar Gov. Tooryalai Wesa said Friday.
"Thirteen were wounded people. That includes, unfortunately, very young kids like one-year-old, three-year-old and six years old."
But Unionist, what are dirt-poor Afghan men, women and children doing to win this war? They seem to be falling down on the job and still living in misery and despair and phony war.
When will an Afghan style Tet offensive happen? Today's equivalent of the doctor and madman, Cheney and Bush, are long gone. And the Liberal democrat-changeling Obama is running the show now supposedly. And yet the less he talks about change, the more things remain the same and worse for the majority of desperately poor and oppressed Afghans without basic health care or schools or even enough to eat year round.
"Get Out of Afghanistan" - RAWA
That was the blunt message to Australia _ and the US _ on Sunday from Shazia Shakib, a member of the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA). [...]
She told the Hobart meeting Afghanistan’s best hope was for the US and its allies _ including Australia _ to pull their troops out and stop backing the Hamad Karzai government which she said was dominated by warlords.
A civil war would then erupt between the Islamic Fundamentalist Taliban and the Northern Alliance, made up of warlords and drug chieftans.
She believed that was better than occupation by foreign powers which led to increasing alienation of the people from any democratic possibility.
But Yanqui imperialists are using the Taliban as an excuse for the military occupation. Malalai Joya said an Afghan report of some months ago indicated that the Taliban are being sold weapons and ammo by Karzai's Northern Alliance warlords in government - the same government backed by the US military. I dont think this Yanqui-led NATO occupation will be pulling out anytime soon to be perfectly honest.
When will they get the spam filters working here?
As for me, I'd rather joke about the cadavers than send replacements. These murderer commanders who shed crocodile tears over our young people should be in the front lines.
Outstanding Unionist!
I would add Stephen Harper, Peter MacKay, Stockwell Day and all those never were/are not/never will be soldier wannabe armchair military strategist glory scavenger blood sucking vampires who use war and the death of our troops to further their own political ends.
And this coming from a former soldier.
[bullshit detector on] I forgot that those of us with pink skin pigment and suffering white man's burden dont actually care what actual Afghans have to say about what's happening in their own country, and especially the women of that country. This is KAOS, and we only point to RAWA.org when making our favourite political points around here.
Fidel, a substantial majority of Canadians want Canada out of Afghanistan now. So does RAWA. You could consider getting on board, after all these years.
Fidel, a substantial majority of Canadians want Canada out of Afghanistan now. So does RAWA. You could consider getting on board, after all these years.
There you go again suggesting falsely that I am some kind of groupee for the military occupation when I am not. So you can quit trying to smear me and changing the subject in your usual off-topic into the rhubarb manner.
I support Malalai Joya and the women of RAWA, and what they have to say about events in their own country. I suggest you do the same.
Good for you. I support the people of Afghanistan, who will surely win and make their own decisions as to whom to elect, without your kind assistance.
Good for you. I support the people of Afghanistan, who will surely win and make their own decisions as to whom to elect, without your kind assistance.
Well score another snarky remark for you. But I dont think you do support RAWA or the people of Afghanistan as much as you think you do. Apparently you think this war is justified if only in the minds of US war hawks stemming the evil tide against "al-Qa'eda" and the USA's former proxies, the Taliban. And there is overwhelming evidence that not even US hawks believe in their own false pretext for this phony war. So where does that leave you?
And apparently youve scoffed at statements posted on RAWA.org which undermine your own white man's attitude concerning this phony war. You refuse to digest the idea that the CIA and Brits, Saudis and Pakistani ISI are still orchestrating this phony war on the other side of the world and have been since 1979. But you know better than I and especially the women of RAWA and Malalai Joya. You should consider going to Afghanistan and Pakistan and preaching your personal political opinions to the tens of millions of people struggling to subsist through this imperialist phony war. Tell them to soldier on and that their time in the sun will happen over the long run. In the mean time, they can take it on the chin, because it's their destiny.
I hear also that all these world scale shenanigans are orchestrated by a committee of Gnomes, who head up a village at the garden at the center of the Pentagon. These supergnomes, are not only capable of incredible magical acts of illussion, but also run their own village, but also micromanage the acts of individual tribal leaders and warlords in Afghanistan, as Karpov manages pieces on a chessboard. Your problem Fidel is you can't tell the difference between an interational conspiracy and plain old corruption.
Remove the money supply from the US Congress and other allies and remove the corruption.
Yap yap yap. Meanwhile, the people of Afghanistan continue to battle the invaders, in what Fidel comfortably calls a "phony war":
U.K. soldier killed - yes, another one!
The head of the Army, General Sir Richard Dannatt, has called for better equipment to protect troops from roadside bombs in the country.
He told the BBC that troops "needed more" and added that he would be compiling a "shopping list" of what was required.
Tough to beat those well-financed high-tech insurgents.
Afghan blast "kills at least 11"
At least 11 civilians, including five children, have been killed in a blast in Afghanistan's southern province of Kandahar, officials say.
The blast reportedly hit a vehicle travelling towards a shrine in the Spin Boldak district of the province.
No group has claimed responsibility for the attack. Kandahar is regarded as the Taliban's spiritual homeland.
LOL, "spiritual homeland". Fidel thinks it's Washington.
The Afghan people will win!
Unionist, and perhaps you, too, believe Afghans have something to gain by joining up with the Pakistani ISI(CIA) controlled Taliban. Malalai Joya, RAWA, and myself included are not so deluded as to believe in this white man's tale.
Huh? That isn't what the RAWA woman said. What she said is that the US should leave so all those folks can kill each other.
Unionist, and perhaps you, too, believe Afghans have something to gain by joining up with the Pakistani ISI(CIA) controlled Taliban. Malalai Joya, RAWA, and myself included are not so deluded as to believe in this white man's tale.
Oh yeah? Weren't you and Malalai Joya seen eating kittens at a New York deli while plotting an aerial attack on the King David Hotel in 1947?
You wanted to know what the poor Afghan people are doing to liberate themselves. They are blowing up increasing numbers of invaders and taking control of increasing parts of Afghanistan. You, like the invaders, call them "Taliban" so as to demonize them and ridicule the struggle of young Afghan freedom fighters. But you know what - they will win. Neither U.S. technology nor young Canadian corpses nor spamming babble threads will stop them. Just you wait and watch and see.
Huh? That isn't what the RAWA woman said. What she said is that the US should leave so all those folks can kill each other.
More on "Huh?" from RAWA May 7
The only way our people can escape the occupant forces and their obedient servants is to rise against them under the slogans of: "Neither the occupiers! Nor the bestial Taliban and the criminal Northern Alliance; long live a free and democratic Afghanistan!"
That doesnt sound like a ringing endorsement for the bullshit insurgency, imo.
Unionist, and perhaps you, too, believe Afghans have something to gain by joining up with the Pakistani ISI(CIA) controlled Taliban. Malalai Joya, RAWA, and myself included are not so deluded as to believe in this white man's tale.
You wanted to know what the poor Afghan people are doing to liberate themselves. They are blowing up increasing numbers of invaders and taking control of increasing parts of Afghanistan. You, like the invaders, call them "Taliban" so as to demonize them and ridicule the struggle of young Afghan freedom fighters. But you know what - they will win. Neither U.S. technology nor young Canadian corpses nor spamming babble threads will stop them. Just you wait and watch and see.
And if shoes were clues, you'd be as be as barefoot as the majority of them are in thirdworld US client states around the world.
I thought I would preserve that frank confession of where you stand so that someday you can snack on those words. It's really unfortunate that a progressive individual can't tell the difference between imperialist invaders and the resistance. Of course, the entire imperialist propaganda from day one has been to demonize the insurgency in order to justify occupation, puppet regimes, and war crimes. But we're supposed to look past that propaganda. Sad.
Huh? That isn't what the RAWA woman said. What she said is that the US should leave so all those folks can kill each other.
More on "Huh?" from RAWA May 7
The only way our people can escape the occupant forces and their obedient servants is to rise against them under the slogans of: "Neither the occupiers! Nor the bestial Taliban and the criminal Northern Alliance; long live a free and democratic Afghanistan!"
That doesnt sound like a ringing endorsement for the bullshit insurgency, imo.
Its not but that has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
"Get Out of Afghanistan" - RAWA
That was the blunt message to Australia _ and the US _ on Sunday from Shazia Shakib, a member of the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA). [...]
She told the Hobart meeting Afghanistan’s best hope was for the US and its allies _ including Australia _ to pull their troops out and stop backing the Hamad Karzai government which she said was dominated by warlords.
A civil war would then erupt between the Islamic Fundamentalist Taliban and the Northern Alliance, made up of warlords and drug chieftans.
She believed that was better than occupation by foreign powers which led to increasing alienation of the people from any democratic possibility.
Anyway, feel free to change the subject so you can refer to the facts that support the case you want to make, as opposed to the one made by this RAWA activist.
I thought I would preserve that frank confession of where you stand so that someday you can snack on those words. It's really unfortunate that a progressive individual can't tell the difference between imperialist invaders and the resistance. Of course, the entire imperialist propaganda from day one has been to demonize the insurgency in order to justify occupation, puppet regimes, and war crimes. But we're supposed to look past that propaganda. Sad.
That's fine. And when the women of RAWA and Malalai Joya and Canadian and American investigative news journalists, academics on the left etc prove to you that your white man's advice to carry on with the blood and guts phony war orchestrated by CIA and their friends in Pakistan was rotten advice all along, then we can bet burdensome white men like you will be singing a different tune at that point. We seem to be surrounded by idiots on all sides here.
Wow. that is some really stunningly preposterous posturing on your part. You don't "stand" with anyone. You are "blogging"with them at best. And that is being kind. "Raving" in their name would be more accurate, but I wont say that, since it would be unmannerly.
Stay tuned for our resident body counter and grim reaper to post the latest bloodbath statistics for the Stan. They must murder our boys to prove that murdering people in another country is wrong.
Every war is about an aggressive military force looking for a resource grab in some other sovereign country. Unionist and the Cueball seem to want to believe in the US hawk version of war that they are there to put a stop to "al-Qa'eda" or the USsA's former proxies propped-up in Kabul from 1995-2001. But even US hawks like Newt Gingrich said Bush's war, at least as far as Iraq is concerned, is a phony war for a resource grab. Meatheads like Cheney and Rumsfeld continue lying to rich American audiences that Saddam and "al-Qa'eda" were serruptitiously linked. Still no proof even when they arent the government in Warshington though.
I've had enough of the senseless body count thread for now. Ta!
In my view and my own actions, I am trying to prevent war crimes.
You're doing one hell of a job webgear.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8763367484184611493
I've had a complaint about this post, that NorthReport is accusing Webgear of committing war crimes.
I can see where it could read like that, but I think it's possible that NorthReport was simply saying that Webgear is not succeeding at stopping the war crimes that are being committed. So, I'm letting it go, but let's try not to provoke each other this way - the post was easily misunderstood and likely felt like an attack and an accusation.
P.S. Long thread - feel free to start part 7.