Afghanistan, Still Losing the War, Part 12

YES-YES! The warfiteers must be counting their lucky stars for having funded the creation of these religious robots 30 years ago. And it's still paying off for them.

Lo, observe the hand of god. Who can make war with the beast? His number is 6...

That's because the A list are so preoccupied these days, it's like pulling teeth to get them out consistently for the big events.  But why cancel it entirely when the B list is full of willing has-beens and wannabes.

Funny how so many missed the wider implication that in supposedly safe Kabul, the US (and Canadian) cheering of Israel's crimes in Gaza will probably result in more US and Canadian deaths in Afghanistan. Way to win hearts and minds.

Yeah, I disagree with FM.

I don't think Afghans will kill Canadian soldiers because they hate Israel.

I think they'll kill Canadian soldiers because they hate Canada.

It would be awesome if instead of people trying to kill Canadians they just threw shoes at us.

I could start a chairity....

$5 to throw a shoe at a Canadian soldier (me! and I'd donate the proceeds to demineing programs in Afghanistan or some other kinda program) 

Now don't hurt yourselves pushing each other trying to get first in line ladies and gentlemen =)

Post 9/11 Torture and Secret Detention

Abduction, Torture, & Repeated Raping of Aafia Siddiqui

This is really awful. Just terrible. The American inquisition must stop.

I think you know what I meant. One of the reasons the UN was created was to put a stop to aggressor nations from marching in to sovereign countries and occupying them militarily.

Personally, I have/had several relatives who fought in both world wars and who regretted it, all except for one or two of them who really didnt see much of the horror show themselves.

I've been a sport hunter, and I have no issues with taking food from nature in appropriate situations and manner. But I refuse to be cannon fodder for the sake of an international corporate agenda. Before I ever picked up a rifle for country and flag, I would have to answer some fairly serious questions about why I was shipping out to meet interesting people in exotic cultures so far away and to murder them on their own soil. For example:

1. Is Karzai's government just another US-installed puppet government in a desperately poor nation, and like all of the US-installed kleptocracies, narco-states, and the brutal right-wing dictatorships they've propped up around the world from last century to this one - will Karzai's municipal government in Kabul be just another U.S.-backed stoogeocracy running the country into the ground while he and his colonial administrators become rich at the expense of democracy?

2. Why in hell are the troops even over there? Because as far as I can tell, that desperately poor country had nothing to do with 9-11. There is no actual hard proof that Sheihk Khalid Muhammed or any of the so-called Hamburg Cell were responsible for orchestrating 9-11. Not if you disallow torture as a legitimate means of extracting confessions and stonewalling international courts of law from subpoena of witnesses and to give testimonials as per established legal procedure.

3. Is it possible that 9-11 was a false flag operation and orchestrated by more than one country's intel agency and US Military as a way to create an unseen enemy and justify enormous post-cold war era spending on military-Keynesianism? Because I think it's highly likely myself. The US and friends actually have an established history of perpetrating false flag terrorism and harbouring known terrorists for political reasons.

The Taliban and "al Qa'eda" are creations of the CIA and international friends. Independent Canadian and American sources say that the U.S. shadow feds  did not sever ties with their Islamic Gladios from the 1980s and 90's. In fact, prominent Republican Party politicians have accused the Liberal Democrats of aiding and abetting their old Islamic Gladio allies well past 1992, into the mid 1990s, and even in the years and months leading up to 9-11-01. And various sources say it continues to this day. Some on the left and even the political right have said this is a "phony war on terror" And I tend to agree - this is definitely what it looks like. 

I could never lie to myself that I would be traveling to another country to make things right, and especially not under the overall command of that country's military while our own stoogeocrats nod up and down in rapid agreement to whatever they are instructed to by Warshington. No God damn way. Colour me anything but a drone or a pawn for those idiots, those thundering nit-wits and yes-men on the take and with incredibly small minds - minds so small that they have to step outside to change them. You're better than them, Realigned. Get out while you still have your legs attached and your brain switched on. And If I've mistaken you for being a Canadian soldier and you're not, then excuse me.

The decison on Captain Semrau's bail hearing:

CAPTAIN R.A. SEMRAU v. HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN

But wouldnt that be the ultimate in democracy? If people were provided all the information they needed beforehand, or at least educated in large part about "the mission" well beforehand, they could better decide, dont you think? Soldiers who really believed in "the mission" would be there because they believe in "the mission"

On the other hand if soldiers could be presented with the other side of the story, or perhaps exposed to three sides of the same story, they might say to their employers, " No thanks gov, I'll sit this one out. I think we're being sacrificed for some flimsy corporate agenda, or colder war maneuvering that has absolutely SFA to do with freedom and democracy on the other side of the world. And you'd bloody well better record that as my vote and thought on the matter in this dodgy outfit, if you value my long term loyalty. Otherwise, you people will have to find some other flunky to replace me. My ass is too valuable to be left in the hands of total idiots who dont care what I think or have to say."

But that's an advanced concept - a democratic right which exists only in your mind as of... right now and from here on out. 

As things are now though, your ass and where it's sent is the decision of a handful of people who most Canadians didnt vote for. And even if we consider the voter support for the two US-friendly big business parties favouring Crazy George II's phony-baloney war on terror in the stan and Iraq and globally, your ass is still in the hands of a few people who most registered voters didnt vote for. Either way, your life is in the hands of a few people who probably werent awarded a clear majority of the total votes in their home ridings. IOW's, they're illegit but making executive decisions on all our behalfs regardless of this brand new idea for democracy which is now etched in your brain forever and ever, amen.  So now you're beginning to smell a rat and none too soon for your sake, I must say. 

My father later regretted volunteering to go overseas in '39. Somewhere along the line he ended up in a British prison for attitude adjustment. He hit an American MP who tried to rifle butt him as dad was exiting the mess tent with some fruit. Dad did a number on him apparently. But dad said he breezed through PT and the obstacle courses in blistering heat. Dad was a natural athlete. Some of the other veterans in Northern Ontario who were at the D-day landings referred to dad's bunch as "D-Day dodgers" thinking they'd missed all the fireworks and bloodshed. Dad saw enough blood and gore with the three rivers regiment attached to Montgomery's 8th army in Africa, Italy, and Holland and Belgium in '45.  

But my father wanted to see the world and get away from the boredom of  unemployment in the quiet life in Northern Ontario. They were pretty poor then. Dad and thousands of other Canaidans and Americans were chomping at the bit to go overseas and fight fascism then. Our governments couldnt hold them back any longer like they attempted to during the war against fascism in Spain several years earlier.

All I can suggest to you, Realigned, is to use your noodle. Dad and those guys didnt have the information that's available to people today. They didnt have the power of the internet at their disposal in the 1930's. But you do. Choose wisely. 

I think that this problem is straightforward. He's failed to protect the people he's paid to protect from a drunk driver.

But that drunk driver wasnt schooled in drunk driving by a US shadow government and Saudi princes funding madrassas for the indoctrination of driving drunk in the war on secular socialism in Canada. I know this is convoluted, but there are far more variables to consider with invading and occupy a sovereign country long term versus choosing to arrest a menace to society for his sake and everyone else's. When it comes to solving problems with mathematics, you first have to think through the problem in terms of English language thoughts, or whatever language you're comfortable with, and then translate it into logical statements, algebraic symbols for the knowns and unknowns, and plug them into something that might balance on both sides of an equality. But to tell you the truth, I dont do that. Because math is hard and a lot of work for me as elegant a language as it might seem. Many people are so good at thinking logically that they can solve problems and come to rational conclusions based on inference and arriving at solutions from thinking rationally. And it matters a great deal what and who your sources of information are. rabble has some very informed and clever people posting here as well as contributing columnists. I'm not saying we're all smarter than people you know in the military. I know one or two friends who are in the military and are very well educated In fact, they are too well educated to be dedicating their lives to what I think is a cause without a genuine purpose. I know they are well educated, but at the same time I think they are misinformed, and even deliberately misled about the military's goals, and especially in regard to lont term US interests in Afghanistan and Central Asia in general. And they are US interests not our own.

That's something to consider for sure. But then there is risk in every endevour. The idea is to take on as little risk as possible and manage your own risk, whether you're a contractor or sub-contractor to the government, private enterprise etc or in a marriage contract with long-term obligations to short people in your life. And dont let anyone tell you that flag and country have priority over those things, because they'll be lying to you. If the contractors themselves are not held to any obligations by sub-contractors(you) to provide full disclosure for the mission they want to volunteer your personal safety and sense of purpose to, then I think it's time to re-assess the mission and goal statements for both parties to the contract. 

I dont think Realigned has to worry about Stephen Harper coming to the aid of a nation of people under siege in the Middle East.

And he couldnt volunteer to go as a Canadian peacekeeper right now if he wanted to. He does have the singular option of participating in phony war in Afghanistan though. I could never be led by people with incredibly small minds, and who themselves are Yanqui'd around by the nose-hairs. 

"You're an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill." - Col. Kurtz 

And what is NATO(North Atlantic Treaty Org) doing in Central Asia today, Realigned? Isnt that a bit far from their cold war era jurisdiction?

Realigned, you should ask around as to why NATO countries turned their backs on Afghanistan and the ensuing carnage that befell that country in the years following 1992. Millions fled the country as Islamic gladios tore that country apart from stem to stern.

Free e-book and download for Realigned. It's a must-have for every cold war-military history buff.

The U.S. military has occupied South Korea for more than 50 years under the guise of a UNSC resolution.  The US military has threatened North Koreans with nuclear incineration several times since the 1950's.  2000 students and civilians were massacred while protesting US military occupation in S. Korea 1980.  UN forces in the former Yugoslavia, the Congo, and Haiti have been little more than a ruse for U.S. and European military intervention and occupation. They have never been an instrument for peace and reconciling differences between countries. Various US military occupations remain to be the largest threat to peace in various "hot spots" around the world.

The US has actually been involved in Afghanistan since summer of 1979, about six months before the Soviets "invaded" Aghanistan.

So here we are with more US military intervention and occupation in Afghanistan decades from the CIA's operation cyclone. And they've used 9-11 as the reason for bombing and invading a desperately poor and strategically situated country in CEntral Asia. There is little evidence that desperately poor Afghans had anything to do with perpetrating 9-11. There is no actual proof that the five or six alleged 9-11 plotters held at Gitmo had anything to do with 9-11. Not if you discount "confessions" extracted by torture. Khalid Sheihk Muhammed actually held out the longest of these suspects - 5 years in all before "confessing" all. KSM has described the military tribunal at Gitmo as a farce. And wouldnt all of us agree that everyone deserves a fair trial and not trial by an American military inquisition? A German superior court judge actually handed down lesser sentences not in-line with the seriousness of the accusations to the so-called "Hamburg cell" due to a lack of real evidence tying them to 9-11. The Americans refused to provide the evidence needed and citing "national security" issues. And people around the world are saying things arent right with this American inquisition. People around the world are saying 9-11 merits a new investigative criminal trial - a real one this time, it's that important. Afterall, 9-11 was so important to the Cheney-Bush governnment that they declared within hours of it happening who the perpetrators were - their old Islamic gladio ally, Osama bin Laden. Michel Chossudovsky, globalresearch.ca, and several more people have written extensively about who Osama bin Laden is and what he and others like him have in common with the CIA and British interests in Central Asia, Africa and the Middle East.

Afghanistan, Another Untold Story by Michael Parenti

It's a phony war on terror, Realigned. Some US hawks have said so themselves. The US has bombed over 20 some odd nations since Nagasaki and Hiroshima. And very few of them are better off or more democratic for it today. There is something about war and fascist aggressions that make it profitable though. The US is a vicious empire, Realigned. It's not Canada's business or the North Atlantic Treaty Org's business on that side of the world either.

like Mexico.

Here's one of many legal opinions explaining the illegality of the NATO attack on Afghanistan.

The attacks began on October 7, 2001. It was not until December 20 that the Security Council passed Resolution 1386 authorizing the establishment of ISAF. The NATO campaign, by then over two months old, and known as Operation Enduring Freedom, was never part of ISAF, and continued separate and apart from it, under NATO (US) command, without Security Council authorization.

Thanks for clarifying that. It explains why some US actions seem at cross purposes with what our troops are trying to do.

In example:

The people depend on the poppy crop for their living, so the Canadian soldiers (UN?) promised to leave the poppy crops alone and instead tried to provide security so the farmers could sell them to legitimate buyers, not to the drug trade Taliban/warlords. Then the US came and firebombed the crops. Left our soldiers in a tenuous postion as it violated their agreement with the farmers, not to mention leaving the farmers unable to feed their families. Many of them then had no choice but to join the Taliban.

Also, the US bombing of the school in Pakistan was not helpful to our soldiers. Again, many of the families theresimply have no other place to go.

So the Afghanis and UN troops are fighting the Taliban, but it looks like the US is fighting the Afghanis, or at least making life so difficult for them that they have to join the insurgents. It's a self-perpetuating war. I'll bet the war industry boys love that!

Saga I think you're exactly right.

 Local Afghans farm poppies. I don't think they really care WHAT it's used for, their feeding their famlies and they don't give a shit beyond that. 

When the US came, following the war on drugs doctrine, they started eradicating poppy fields but didn't replace it with anything. Basically they destroyed the farmers livelyhood.

Canadians understand the type of situation this creates and have/are trying to address it.  I don't know all the details but as mentioned one concept is to harvest poppies and sell them to legit buyers. Another is a flat buy out. Canada would pay 10'000 or whatever and burn the field to the groud.  Both these options have pros and consbut bith are better than just burning the poppy fields and saying tough shit.

I thought Operation Enduring freedom gave command over to ISAF in July/August 2006.

With the coalition of opposition parties appearing to have died, will Afghanistan become an issue again on the political landscape?

No single party has releases any serious statements on the subject in several weeks if not months.

______________________________________________________________________________________________ We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.

The NDP's position on Afghanistan remains the same. 

And those two old line parties are still the vicious toadies to Crazy George and US imperialism that they were before. If Obama said, Let's invade Canada!, tomorrow, our old line party lap dogs would nod up and down in rapid agreement - and more than likely volunteer Canadian troops to US-led sieges of Vancouver, Calgary, Ottawa. and Toronto.

Double Post

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We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.

When Obama comes knocking he'll say "I'm putting tens of thousands of troops into Afghanistan, what is Canada prepared to do?". If Harper is still in power he will extend the mission yet again and possibly add more troops, if he can find any. If it's PM Iggy, I suspect he'll do the same. The Canadian people won't agree with this and the NDP and Bloc will scream bloody murder, but that won't make a bit of difference. At least that's my greatest fear.

Red T-shirt, I doubt the army will be in Afghanistan in large numbers by 2011, the army is broken both in the terms of personnel and equipment. If there are more then 500 soldiers in Afghanistan post mid-2011 I will be very surprised.

Fidel, if the NDP can not change the outcome now, they are not worthy to govern. They have well over 6 months to prepare statements and organized a detailed plan yet they remain silent and without a plan. If the NDP is the working man's party, they are doing a very poor job if they are unable to change the public mind on a single subject.

The NDP could have done better in the election if they faced the subject with a hard stance. Instead every since the summer they have remained fragmented at best for press statements and critical planning.

______________________________________________________________________________________________ We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.

Instead of being a formed battle group performing kinetic operations (like company sized raids) they (canadians) will for the most part be a part of the OMLT and POMLT. Small mentoring teams tasked with training platoon and company sized elements of the Afghan army or small 12 sized afghan police detachment.  Little security bubbles around the province.

 Just what I think might happen in the next few years.

The El Salvador option. So training death squads is your idea of "security".

Gee, it turns out that making Afghanistan safe for little girls to go to school isn't really why we're there at all. It's not even about "nation-building." It's about political cleansing of forces hostile to the USA:

* I think he meant something more like "Shangri-La".

NATO ordered to murder CIA personel--or perhaps just poor Afghan farmers?
===
"NATO High Commander Issues Illegitimate Order to Kill

SPIEGEL has obtained, NATO's top commander, US General John Craddock, has issued a "guidance" providing NATO troops with the authority "to attack directly drug producers and facilities throughout Afghanistan."

According to the document, deadly force is to be used even in those cases where there is no proof that suspects are actively engaged in the armed resistance against the Afghanistan government or against Western troops. It is "no longer necessary to produce intelligence or other evidence that each particular drug trafficker or narcotics facility in Afghanistan meets the criteria of being a military objective," Craddock writes. "

Support Our Hired Murderers

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,604183,00.html

Author and historian Richard Reeves: "Why are we in Afghanistan?"

_______________________________________

Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

You can say that again, I say, he can say that again.

So is this what Liberal and Conservative party policies lead to: 8 males charged in an attempt to blow Canadian passengers and Canadian planes out of the air

Eight Islamic extremists conspired to smuggle bombs constructed from household goods and disguised as soft drinks on to the aircraft, Woolwich Crown Court in London was told.

Prosecutor Peter Wright QC said the London-based cell intended to cause civilian deaths on an "unprecedented scale" and strike a blow that "would reverberate across the globe".

Two ringleaders acted on instructions from masterminds in Pakistan to draw together a gang of suicide bombers from radicalised and vulnerable young Muslims, he said.

Opening the prosecution, Mr Wright said some defendants were "foot soldiers" with no knowledge of the scale of the conspiracy but who had the "cold-eyed certainty of the fanatic".

He said: "They were prepared to strike a blow in which they would lose their lives but it was a blow that would reverberate across the globe."

He added: "These men were indifferent to the carnage that was likely to ensue if their plans were successful.

"To them the identities of their victims was an irrelevance by race, colour, religion or creed.

"What these men intended to bring about together and with others was a violent and deadly statement of intent that would have a truly global impact."

The jury was told the conspiracy was blown into the open when counter terrorist police swooped on two senior gang figures in a Walthamstow car park on August 9, 2006.

Abdulla Ahmed Ali and Assad Sarwar had been followed by undercover detectives for weeks as they made the final preparations for the attacks, the court heard.

Mr Wright said the men and other conspirators had been extremely busy, communicated regularly with Pakistan and the intended date of the terror strike "was not far off".

He said: "It is the Crown's case that this plot was being directed from Pakistan.

"This was not something that had been devised merely by Ali and Sarwar once they had realised they shared a common interest, this was part of a much wider scheme of things.

"Acts of terrorism on an international scale, directed from abroad using home-grown terrorists, young, radicalised Muslims prepared to lose their lives in a global act of jihad."

A computer memory stick holding details of flights from Heathrow Airport to North America was found in Ali's pocket when he was arrested.

It held details of flights operated by three carriers - American Airlines, United Airlines and Air Canada - from August to October 2006.

Seven services were highlighted, all leaving from Terminal Three of the London airport and all due to be mid-flight at the same time. All the flights were one-way only.

The planes were travelling to Montreal and Toronto in Canada and San Francisco, Washington, Chicago and New York in the United States.

Mr Wright said other key conspirators were overheard discussing whether to target other flights from different terminals and as many as 18 suicide bombers.

The bombs would be made from everyday household items including batteries and soft drink bottles so they could be smuggled on board and detonated in mid-flight.

Are Canadians taking an interest in this trial as Canadian airliners in the air supposedly were targeted?

What is going on here in this secretive British courtroom?

This is the second trial for these 8 men, having been found not guilty the first time.

Today apparently the jury was dismissed but we are not given an explanation as to why.

This is all very bizarre to say the least.

British judge dismisses jury in transatlantic airline plot case

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5izlu1iNYRPe-8uCgRVCc4KnfthKw 

Liquid Bomb Pakistan Link Is False Flag Smoking Gun

Veracity of liquid explosives method also put under dubious doubt

Former British Ambassador Says Terror Alert Is "Propaganda"
Indians say group linked to liquid bombers controlled by Pakistan's ISI

Yes, I think a separate thread for false flag gladio operations might be in order so as not to clutter threads like this one reserved specifically for the phony war on terror.

Yes, North Report, we still have a few babblers who fully believe everything the CIA has relayed to them about Afghanistan and Central Asia by way of Reader's Digest, CNN, Foxy News and Toronto Star since about 1979 or so.

Who is it this time? The former UK ambassador's personal website? GlobalResearch.ca? Go screw yourself, I've had enough of you and your thread diversions when you dont care for the way the discussion is flowing.

Never mind unionist, North Report, because conspiracy is what the USSA is dealing in with respect to 9/11. If unionist can point us to any proof whatsoever that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed "masterminded" 9/11, and other than his "confession" tortured out of him after five years in the gulag, then we might consider to cease referring to that truckload of nonsense as US-sponsored conspiracy theory in the same vein. We get all kinds of cranks around here, and you'll just have to learn to tolerate them.

And now the UK is probably going to increase its troop strength in Afghanistan.

What's really going on here? Why is this area so important to NATO or whotever?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/onthefrontline/4696595/Defence-Secretary-John-Hutton-Britain-could-send-more-troops-to-Afghanistan.html

Don't forget the pipeline.

Afghan court upholds sentences in Quran trial

As Harper embraces Obama, his new Afghan commander welcomes Obama's fresh batch of cannon fodder. Why can't the MSM even appreciate irony?

New Canadian commander in Afghanistan welcomes U.S. troop influx

This idiot won't last long.

Gates says he would accept truce in Afghanistan

"KRAKOW, Poland -- U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Friday that Washington could accept a political agreement between the Afghan government and the Taliban if the insurgents will lay down their arms and accept the government's terms.

He was responding to a question from a Pakistani reporter about whether a deal struck by Pakistan with Taliban fighters in the restive Swat valley could serve as a model for Afghanistan."

______________________________________________________________________________________________ We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.

What do you mean peace? I would say another 15 years of civil war. It will be like the mid 90s all over again.

______________________________________________________________________________________________ We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.

No I said there would be civil war for 15 years and that it would be like like the civil war in the mid 90s.

______________________________________________________________________________________________ We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.

The MND Peter McKay seems not to know the difference between a US Marine Expeditionary Brigade and a US Army Stryker Brigade Combat Team.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090222/mackay_afghanistan_090222/20090222?hub=QPeriod 

The US is deploying a Marine Expeditionary Brigade to Kandahar province not Army Stryker Brigade.

______________________________________________________________________________________________ We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.

I think we have to be aware that technically, 9-11 truth is often referred to as conspiracy theory every bit as much as 9-11 Commission report is by Truthers. I have no desire to centre out any ethnic group for pinning blame to. I think blaming Jews for things going wrong must date back to at least the Spanish inquisition. And now it looks to me like we have the American inquisition, as Michel Chossudovsky describes it.

In the words of Monthy Python: 

          "NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! 

Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... 

Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... 

Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... 

Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry... are such elements as fear, surprise.... 

I'll come in again." (Monthy Python, The Spanish Inquisition)

For starters, YOU are the only one linking to prisonplanet in this thread. 

So by virtue of your swalling the phony-baloney 9/11 Commish report, do you realize just how much of the American inquisition's so-called evidence was extracted by torture? In case you didnt realize it, confessions extracted under torture dont hold up in any real criminal court of law. At least none that I'm aware of outside of Gitmo, that hell on earth place you said Obama has realized is "chock full of terrorists" Now we know, unionist. KSM their alleged 9/11 "mastermind" is the most recent patsy and who actually denied having anything to do with 9/11 for five years before losing his will to live for the torture. 

Did you even READ what former UK ambassador Craig Murray had to say about the gladio-style propaganda campaign wrt the shampoo bombers? For Christ's sake, unionist, is there a discretionary bone in your little body, or do you always swallow whole whatever it is Yanquis are serving?  If I EVER become the slavish devotee that you are to the two old line party lap dogs and their US masters, just take me out b'hind the shed and pull the trigger, please!

The PrisonPlanet.com link is gone as of days ago. But that's okay, there are more perfectly good links to legit web sites discussing the same story, like this one: Alleged Liquid Bomb Plot Credibility Crumbles What, no comment? Well that's to be expected.

And if you CONTINUE to harass and harangue with your feeble attempts to smear me with anti-semitic labels, I WILL complain to the moderators.  Youve derailed more than one thread with your child-like rants in recent weeks. If you dont like the conversation, just raise hell is unionist's way.

9/11 and the "American Inquisition"

I agree with Libby Davies' motion for Ottawa to press for a legit 9/11 enquiry. Why? Because our stooges in Ottawa are also using 9/11 as the reason for volunteering thousands of Canadian troops to a war on poor people in Afghanistan. It is a phony war, and a deniable war on terror.

And I think rabblers should declare this site a conspiracy-free forum in the sense that we should not be  supporting the American inquisition's trumped up allegations and slip-shod report concerning 9/11. I refuse to support Uncle Sam and the shadow gov or their kangaroo court military trials. We still dont fully know who or what groups were behind 9/11 terrorist attacks, and it looks bad on a government that refuses to produce the evidence and fess up to having aided and abetted "al Qa'eda" and associated militant Islamic groups well after 1992, which is the time frame the CIA gives for supposedly severing covert ties with al Qa'eda and fundamentalist groups in Central Asia and Balkans.

Most babblers already refuse to support their phony war on terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Pakistan. So why should we support their contrived "blowback" theories regarding 9/11, the very pretext being used to justify this ongoing phony war and American inquisition?

Even sites like cbcnews.ca, ctvnews.ca and informationclearinghouse contains explicit hate material in their comments section.  In weighing the value of any story itself against the vileness contained within the various reader comments, I think we could do without prisonplanet.  None of their info is worth being subjected to the ideology of it's readers.

Exactly.

Do I now have to wade through 290 comments to make sure none of them are objectionable before I'm allowed by the links police to post a link to the article?

Excuse me, but you obviously didn't look at the site in question, which has large numbers of highly detailed "Protocols" type anti-Semitic diatribes, obviously making no effort to monitor them. This particular conspiracy site obviously is a conscious gathering place for these kinds of looneytunes. Comparing this to CBC or CTV is ridiculous.

As for the "links police", I have every right to condemn anti-Semitic or any other site I please, and to call on self-styled progressive people to not link to them. If you have a problem with my freedom in this respect, that's kind of too bad. Perhaps, instead, you could join with me in helping to keep these threads - which some of us have tried to reserve for Afghanistan news for years now - diversion and conspiracy-free.

Excuse me, but you obviously haven't looked very closely at the CBC or CTV or Globe and Mail websites, which have large numbers of hateful and racist comments of many kinds, whether monitored or not. These websites are a conscious gathering place for looney tunes of all kinds to spew their vile opinions.

Oh, how clever, well, you win! Congratulations. Perhaps we could get back to Afghanistan.

Mycroft and a few others made a thread about "15 questions for truthers" AKA the baiting thread. I replied with my response as to why I don't like the Bush fairytale about that day and was called an anti-semite because

"Let me understand this - much of "Loose Change"'s arguments come from an outfit called the American Free Press which is published by neo-nazi and Holocaust denier Willis Carto. You give those guys credence?"-AKA Mycroft

Then we went round and round as to how any and all theories about 9/11 were somehow all directed at being anti-semetic. Whether it states it implicitely or not. Rediculous. Yes some of the people want to blame it on "jew bankers" most just don't like the horse shit that the official story is. I also am amoung those that think it's bullshit. But I don't think it had anything to do with jews, it is imperialism needing an excuse. Just like many other times, Reichstag fire being another good example of a pretext for killing and murder. I can asume that no one would ever say "jewish bankers" were behind the fire, other than Nazi's that is. I am just worn out arguing on Babble with people on the suubject. No one will change anyone elses mind, esp without any further investigation, which is all the "conspiracy nuts" really want anyway. Meh

I didn't link to the sites Fidel put up, so I had no context for if you happen to be baiting "truthers" or not. I don't like being called anti-semetic because I am questioning authority on this.

If anything all it does is further stir the cauldron of the middle east, I don't think we would be having half the mid east discussions if Americans(and us) were not running around shootingeverything that moves in the desert. We probably would have had to sit down and do real work on solving real problems gloabally and it's a huge distraction, the war that is not the conspiracy. Chomsky doesn't believe it, but that is because it would entirely taint anything he says. All his credibility would be lost, that is why he is telling people to move on, it's a distraction to people starving in africa, to gaza, to what we are dong in afghanistan. No way will the real story ever come out because of the implecations of governemnt being even partly responsible on something like this would be in the order of the french revolution again. And no government either opposition or leading government wants to be one of the aristocracy when it goes down.

As I have endlessly said:

- I don't know who planned and perpetrated 9/11.

- I don't particularly care who planned and perpetrated 9/11. What I care about is the barbaric aggression abroad and suppression of democracy at home that is used as a consequence of this event.

- I believe that if it were proven - tomorrow - that Dick Cheney did it all on his own, it would make no difference whatsoever to the U.S.'s aggressive imperialist adventures abroad. It only works that way in the movies. Bush did NOT need 9/11 to invade Iraq, now did he? Clinton didn't need it to bomb Afghanistan and Sudan and to blockade Iraq and cause countless civilian deaths - now DID HE?

- I believe that the exaggerated concentration on this event is based on the premise that the U.S. is all-knowing and all-powerful - that only they could have visited such a catastrophe on themselves.

- I don't want to psychoanalyze you. I want you to stop telling me to "screw off" and telling me I'm some kind of U.S. agent. I want you to talk about Afghanistan (in this thread) and make arguments about issues in other threads. I have never, once, called you a name, and I'm not going to start now. But I reserve the right to mercilessly ridicule your posts if warranted.

Well for someone who claims not to care, youve certainly gone out of your way to attack me for expressing my point of view as to who was responsible. And I dont appreciate your personal attacks and derogatory comments in steering this and other threads off into the rhubarb patch.

Well that's your personal opinion. If anything, it's been said that Republican Conservatives are viewed by Americans as being tough on foreign policy in the best interests of Americans. But we all know, as American academics like Michael Parenti has said, that what Americans believe their governments have been up to abroad and how they are misled by corporate-owned news media on the same subject is a lesson in fascism.

Bush's credibility was said to be most damaged by his government's failure to protect and aid Americans during the Katrina disaster. 9/11 was also a disaster for which the Bush regime deliberately failed to protect ordinary US citizens from harm. So I think youre wrong, and that the American people would turn against both warmongering plutocratic parties if the truth was known about 9/11. Theyre hiding behind "national security" as the reason why very little evidence was produced there in US courts of law and in Europe. Higher ups in German intel have said they think it was an inside job. There are 9/11 Commissioners themselves saying it was a coverup.

He was quoted as saying they needed a plan to bomb Iraq. It was a vendetta against Saddam that dates back to that former CIA frontman's betrayal of Bush's father. Bush Sr and Maggie also lied to their respective houses of parliament concerning who aided and abetted Saddam's Iraq in that country's war with Iran and orchestrated by the west.

The former Clinton regime are war criminals, too. The republican senate committee web site documents "Liberal" Democrat deep state involvement in aiding and abetting al Qa'eda wing of the CIA in Central Asia and Balkans well past 1992. Democrats also make similar accusations against Republican governments since Reagan escalated funding and arming of mujahideen militants during the war in 1980's Afghanistan.

Clinton-Approved Iranian Arms Transfers Help Turn Bosnia into Militant Islamic Base

Hawks are crazy like foxes, unionist. Naomi Klein also observes about the criminal bombing and invasion of Iraq, a repetition of Israel's increasingly elaborate, violent and apparently goalless occupation of Palestine. There are goals, and today's chickenhawks needed a replacement enemy for the Soviet Union. Gore Vidal said that the Soviets stabbed the military-industrial complex in the back by ceding the cold war. "al Qa'eda" is a phony enemy, and just another gladio wing of the CIA.

And no need for worry, bc youre too little to psychoanalyse me.

Your backup has arrived, unionist. And, no, he's not a US or Canadian academic or former US government official on the matter or even an independent investigative news journalist for the counter-truth movement, but youll have to make do. 

Arent there pro-USA web sites out there where the lunatic rightwing fringe congregate and basically nod up and down in rapid agreement with one another?  

Paul Dewar never stops peddling the right-wing line, on every issue. Now he's pledging non-military partnership with the U.S. in Afghanistan. That's not the NDP's position, but that has never stopped him before.

And he's on his knees:

The U.S. won't forget you, Paul.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5236a2.htm

"Landmines and unexploded ordnance (UXO) pose a substantial public health risk (1,2). Approximately 60--70 million landmines are scattered in approximately 70 countries (3), and an estimated 24,000 persons, mostly civilians, are killed or injured annually by landmines and UXO (4). In Afghanistan, approximately 5--7 million landmines are scattered throughout the country (4). During 2000--2001, Afghanistan had the highest number of reported landmine and UXO casualties in the world (5). This report presents analyses of surveillance data on landmine- and UXO-related injuries in Afghanistan during January 1997--September 2002, which indicate that the proportion of victims injured by UXO increased during this time, compared with the proportion injured by landmines. The majority (61%) of adult victims were injured by landmines, and the majority (66%) of children and adolescents were injured by UXO. Mine-risk education programs should focus on UXO hazards for children and on landmine hazards for adults and should address age-specific risk behaviors."

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The section regarding the withdrawal of Canadian forces from the "combat mission" is dishonest.  It makes no specific mention of re-employing those withdrawn combat troops as combat postured security guards for the delivery of aid and reconstruction.  Why don't they just come clean and say they want to employ the CF in another role in Afghanistan, as blackwateresque security guards for reconstruction in 'safer areas' of the country, where the prime beneficiaries will be the corrupt warlords and their politicians?

Fidel can you link one of those articles for me of the Northern Alliance Commanders selling arms to the Taliban.

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This does not really matter for the most part, the army is broken and will likely be for a decade.  

______________________________________________________________________________________________ We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.

http://www.icbl.org/lm/2008/countries/afghanistan.php

2007, Landmine Monitor identified at least 811 new casualties due to mines, ERW and victim-activated IEDs in Afghanistan, including 208 killed, 601 injured, and two whose status was unknown. Of these, MACA recorded 750 casualties in 435 incidents (172 killed, 576 injured and two unknown). MACA data did not include information on foreign nationals and limited information on people injured by victim-activated IEDs, as it considered this a security issue outside the scope of its operations.[94] Landmine Monitor media analysis identified at least 61 additional casualties from 22 incidents (36 killed and 25 injured), including 38 civilians and 23 foreign soldiers from Canada, Denmark, the Netherlands, Spain, the United Kingdom, and the United States.[95] Handicap International (HI) recorded 74 mine/ERW casualties in Kandahar province in 2007 and all were included in the MACA database.[96]

Analysis of MACA casualty data for 2007 shows that most mine/ERW/IED casualties were civilian (593), 45 were deminers,[97] 37 were from the Afghan National Security Forces (two under age 18), and the status of 75 was unknown (including 33 children). Children constituted 48% of civilian casualties.

The most common activity at the time of the incident was traveling (159), followed by playing/recreation (106), unknown (87), and tending animals (86). Fewer incidents were caused by tampering (39). No casualties were reported in five provinces (Daykondi, Ghor, Nimruz, Nuristan, and Panjsheer). Most incidents occurred in the conflict-ridden provinces of Kandahar (163) and Helmand (90), followed by Kabul (67), Parwan (56), and Herat (40). Only 3% of casualties reported receiving mine/ERW RE and 55% stated they had not received RE; for the remaining casualties (312, 42%) this information was not known. Almost three-quarters of casualties happened in areas that were not marked, including 123 of the antipersonnel and 118 of the antivehicle mine casualties.[98]

NATO's International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) reported that they maintained records on discovered and detonated IEDs, including IED casualties, reported to them. In 2007, it received reports of 20 ISAF soldiers and 120 civilians killed by IEDs, and 150 ISAF soldiers and 350 civilians injured. The type of IED used (command-detonated or victim-activated) was not known for the majority of casualties. At least 10 ISAF soldiers and 10 Afghan civilians were killed, and 40 ISAF soldiers and 15 civilians injured, by victim-activated IEDs. The majority of incidents occurred in eastern and southern Afghanistan.[99] The US Department of Defense reported that 25 US military personnel were killed in incidents involving IEDs. One soldier died from a landmine explosion.[100] These casualties have not been included in the total as insufficient detail was available for cross-checking.

There continued to be a decrease in recorded casualties in 2007. It was reported that there were on average 60 casualties per month in 2007, down from 138 per month in 2001.[101] In 2006, MACA recorded 893 casualties (133 killed, 759 injured, and one unknown);[102] the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) recorded 796 casualties for the same period.[103] However, when comparing the two databases for 2006, it is possible that there were up to 1,053 casualties in 658 incidents (150 killed, 902 injured and one unspecified); 640 casualties were recorded both by the ICRC and MACA. However, MACA recorded 253 additional casualties which were not in the ICRC database and 160 casualties were only recorded by the ICRC.[104] MACA stated that due to ongoing conflict and inaccessibility of the conflict areas, casualties were likely to be under-reported, especially in southern Afghanistan.[105]

In 2007, there were significant changes in the location, activity, and device type causing incidents compared to 2006. While the number of casualties due to antipersonnel mines remained relatively constant, casualties due to antivehicle mines, usually while traveling, doubled (from 10% to 20%). Most of the antivehicle mine incidents occurred in Helmand and Kandahar provinces (109 of 156) which supports evidence of new mine use. The number of casualties due to submunitions increased in 2007 (from 2% to 4%), and the percentage of casualties due to other ERW decreased (from 40% to 32%). Casualties due to tampering decreased by 88% (from 177 to 39), especially among children, probably due to an increased RE focus on this issue. The number of casualties occurring while traveling nearly doubled (from 90 to 159). In 2007, casualties continued to decrease sharply in Herat (from 127 to 40) probably due to clearance activities. In Kandahar, casualties continued to increase to nearly a quarter of all casualties (from 15% to 22%). Elsewhere casualty rates remained relatively constant. Child casualties decreased in 2007 (from 52% to 43%), but boys continued to constitute a similar percentage of casualties.[106]

Casualties continued to be reported in 2008, with at least 371 casualties recorded by Landmine Monitor as of 23 June 2008 (88 killed, 282 injured and one unspecified). Of these, MACA recorded 331 (69 killed, 261 injured and one unspecified), including 294 civilians, 11 deminers, 17 Afghan National Security Forces (including three children), and nine unknown. More than half of the casualties were children (181), including 154 boys. ERW caused 136 casualties (including three submunition casualties), antipersonnel mines 67, and antivehicle mines 47. The other casualties were caused by fuzes, booby-traps, or unknown devices. Most casualties occurred in Kandahar (61), Baghlan (42, more than the whole of 2007), and Helmand (31) provinces.[107] Landmine Monitor identified 40 additional casualties (19 killed and 21 injured) including three Afghan civilians, four Canadian deminers, 17 foreign military, nine Afghan police and seven Taliban.[108]

In 2008, ISAF noted that the number of victim-activated IED incidents increased sharply compared to 2007. From 1 January to 22 May 2008, 310 victim-activated IED cases were reported; of these 120 detonated. ISAF recorded 10 ISAF soldiers and 10 Afghan civilians killed, and 75 ISAF soldiers and 20 civilians injured by victim-activated IEDs for this period.[109] From 1 January to 1 July 2008, the US Department of Defense reported 31 US military personnel killed as a result of IED attacks.[110]

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True, but what matters is a two faced party engaged in a shell game with their policy on Afghanistan.  A pattern in other policy areas to be sure.

Here is my view on politics.

All political parties are controlled by special interest groups; every party receives guidance and direction from the hidden masters behind the stage curtain.

Political ideology and theory look good on paper however those practices are never used by the leadership of the party.

When I was a teenager, I though communism was the right path however after some in depth research I realized it was never really practiced by those that claimed they were communist.

______________________________________________________________________________________________ We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.

Fidel, release yourself, be free. Politics is only about power and control, all politicians are the same, they all seek power and by any means necessary.

There is no difference in between them, they are all educated at the same schools, they all have the same contacts and friends, they all want to rule.

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Closing for length.