The antisemitism slur on Corbyn and his supporters is an attempt to kill the British Left

75 posts / 0 new
Last post
Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture
The antisemitism slur on Corbyn and his supporters is an attempt to kill the British Left

I've started this thread because the issue it discusses has become the dominant political issue in British politics today, and those of us who want Britain to move away from the utter misery of Toryism, as part of freeing the world from the utter misery of capitalism-an economic model we now know can never again incorporate humane or democratic values-need to be aware of the horrific campaign of smears and lies being directed against not only Jeremy Corbyn himself, but the vast majority of Labour members and supporters who stand for the values he has fought for as leader: The despicable, indefensible campaign to paint one of the most decent and honest figures in modern political life as an enabler of antisemitism.

Here is the background as to why this campaign is not grounded in any actual reality, but simply in an antidemocratic effort to strip the British Labour Party of the core values it has re-embraced since 2015, when Corbyn won the leadership in a landslide victory over candidates from the right wing of the party, all of whom were running on "stay the course" platforms. 

1) Labour has never had an actual problem with antisemitism-other than among certain people on its right wing, such as Ernest Bevin, the postwar Foreign Secretary who denied most Jewish refugees and other displaced persons admission to not only the Mandate of Palestine, but to the UK itself, and anti-Corbyn strategist Alastair Campbell, who was caught preparing anti-Semitic campaign ads to use against Conservative leader Michael Howard in the 2005 election(Howard was a Jewish war orphan who was essentially forced to convert to Anglicanism by his Christian adoptive parents).

2) Before he won the Labour leadership-in a contest where those who now lead the anti-Semitism lie campaign still refuse to accept that his victory was legitimate-nobody in British politics ever, at any time, accused Corbyn of being weak on anti-Semitism, and he had an unblemished reputation as a lifelong campaigner against all forms of prejudice-which by itself proves he was an active lifelong opponent of anti-Semitism.

3) The antisemitism lies began to be spread after Corbyn led the party to large gains in the seat count and massive gains in popular vote share, winning 40% of the vote in a race in which Labour started almost 20 points behind the Tories in the popular vote.  Those gains were made even though the anti-Corbynites used tactics never used against any previous Labour leader by Labour MPs DURING a general election campaign-a coordinate series of announcements in which twelve sitting MPs announced, over a series of days, that they were not standing for re-election, each of them using their announcement to demand Corbyn's resignation as leader-even though it is impossible for a major political party in a parliamentary system to change leaders during an election campaign and still have any chance of even making a respectable showing.

4) The antisemitism lies intensified when Corbyn accepted all the valid and pertinent recommendations of the IHRA on what was to be considered antisemitism-rejecting only those which attempted to extend the definition to include virtually all forms of criticism of the Israeli government's treatment of Palestinians, criticism which, as all decent human beings know, is virtually never antisemitic in character at all.  Even though the form of the guidelines Corbyn accepted encompasses everything that can actually be considered antisemitism, the authors of the slurs would not let up on their vilification of Corbyn-a vilification which, in fact, is actually driven almost entirely by establishment rage at Corbyn's opposition to austerity, concentration of wealth in the hands of the few, war, and oppression.

5) Not satisfied with vilifying the most decent and honest person in UK politics, the perpetrators of this lie are now trying to purge Corbyn's supporters from the party by forcing through a policy in which anyone ACCUSED of antisemitism is automatically expelled from the party.  It goes without saying this will be used to expel anyone who is not an unquestioning supporter of the Israeli government's treatment of Palestinians, and likely be extended to anyone who questions the "consensus" Anglo-American-European policy of perpetual war against the Arab/Muslim world.  The auto-exclusion policy will leave Labour with no socialists, only "center-left social democrats", a term which no longer involves any support of humane, egalitarian social values or any notion of human equality at all.  

6) If auto-exclusion on accusation alone is adopted, it will destroy the Labour Party.  There will be no significant group of party members allowed to stay in the party at all, no one on the Left, no one who backs the unions, no one who campaigns against poverty.  Virtuall all such people are on the Labour Left, and the purpose of the auto-exclusion policy is to remove all left-wingers from the party.  There won't be enough people remaining in the party to do the work of electing a Labour government, those who remain will all be "moderates"(i.e., Tories), and the party will have no non-Tory policies in its election program, just as it had none from 1997 to 2015.

It's not enough to say that Jeremy Corbyn has done nothing to deserve this.  Jeremy's supporters have done nothing to deserve this.  And those voters in the UK who depend on the defeat of the Tories to stay alive-a defeat that will only matter if the party who defeats the Tories rejects everything the Tories stand for-will have no hope.

Please-see this campaign of slanders and lies for what it truly is-it's a fight to make the United Kingdom a permanently left-free zone.  Who but an all-out Thatcherite would want that to happen?  What reason would the Labour Party have to continue to exist if it succeeded, given that the only reason for their to be "the opposition" in a parliamentary system is to oppose what the government of the day is doing and propose policies totally different from that government?

And in what universe should legitimate criticism of a sovereign government in another country ever be equated to bigotry or hatred?

 

 

 

 

josh
NDPP

Prof. Norman Finkelstein on Corbyn Anti-Semite Claims

https://twitter.com/angelcakepics/status/1144194715786645506

"...It's true!"

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Here's a bit longer version of the Finkelstein clip in post #3. This one is 3min 21sec.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Here's a 7min 22sec video that contains a number of smaller clips, some text only, of the opinions of Chomsky and a bunch of other credible people about the Corbyn antisemitism smears. Key quote from Chomsky:

Noam Chomsky wrote:
One must admire the incredible skills the media have in manipulating the population. They've managed to convince many that the most passionate anti-racist campaigner of the last 40 years, Jeremy Corbyn, is actually pro-racist and anti-semitic.

NDPP

Like UK Labour, it is highly likely the NDP leadership would have experienced similar attempts to crush it 'spearheaded' by the same powerful lobby, except that it surrendered to an active collaborationist role years ago.

NDP Suppresses Palestinian Solidarity Again

https://yvesengler.com/2019/07/17/ndp-suppresses-palestinian-solidarity-...

"...NDPers who support Palestinian rights and care about party democracy should hound the leadership over the suppression of the Palestine Revolution. Every single elected representative, staffer, riding association executive and party activist needs to be prodded into deciding whether they side with Palestinian rights and party democracy or suppressing the Palestine Revolution and enabling Canadian complicity in Palestinian dispossession. Is there a point when explicitly antidemocratic behaviour that contributes to Palestinian subjugation will no longer be tolerated in a party claiming the mantra of social justice?"

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture
Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

PROOF that Jeremy Corbyn has always been a committed opponent of antisemitism: 

https://www.facebook.com/GlasgowForCorbyn/videos/501286963950290/

https://www.facebook.com/GlasgowForCorbyn/videos/2308005649458300/

 

 

nicky

It is not a slur because there is a lot of truth behind it.

it is not an attempt to destroy the British Left , rather an attempt to redeem it from an ugly tendency among many of Corbyn’s supporters.

if there is an attempt to destroy the British left it is by anti-Semites who are tarnishing it’s integrity. It also lies in the refusal of Corbyn to confront this disease,

NDPP

Of course the British Left is not solely to be found in the British Labour Party, no more than the Canadian Left is solely to be found in the NDP. (Less and less actually and for similar reasons of 'tarnishing integrity', NOT A/S.) But a question for Nicky. Why do you suppose there is no Auntie S to be found in the Conservative party?

nicky

Auntie S? Please explain.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:

It is not a slur because there is a lot of truth behind it.

it is not an attempt to destroy the British Left , rather an attempt to redeem it from an ugly tendency among many of Corbyn’s supporters.

if there is an attempt to destroy the British left it is by anti-Semites who are tarnishing it’s integrity. It also lies in the refusal of Corbyn to confront this disease,

There is no mass incidence of antisemitism in Labour, and especially not among Corbyn's supporters-the Left are always the least antisemitic part of the political spectrum.

All we have here are accusations, all of which have been made by figures from the Labour Right.

And there is no justification for auto-expulsions on accusation alone, because the agenda of those pushing for auto-expulsions is not to expel antisemites(everyone knows there are virtually none within Labour) but to expel those who are critical of the Israeli government or who identify as non-Zionists or anti-Zionists.

There is no reason ever to link the expression of opposition to what the Israeli government does to Palestinians-all of which can be classed as indefensible brutality-with the question of whether someone is bigoted towards Jews or Judaism.

The Israeli government and Israel as a country are not synonymous with Jews and Judaism.

And there is no set of policies to Corbyn's right which would be different than Tory policies.  If you are against renationalist the utilities, if you are against raising taxes on the wealthy so the wealthy finally pay their fair share, if you aren't against the Tory cuts to the social wage,  if you still defend the Iraq War, you are a Tory.  There is nothing you could be different from the Tories on if you accept all that that could possibly matter.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:

Auntie S? Please explain.

I think that's meant to be a slang term for antisemitism-and historically, the Conservatives have been and continue to be the home of ACTUAL antisemitism-a term which means bigotry against Jewish people and Jews as a set of religious and cultural communities, period.

Many of those who helped make the State of Israel, especially those who worked within the Conservative and old Liberal Parties to back the idea-such as Arthur Balfour and David Lloyd George-were ACTUAL antisemites.  They weren't motivated by any empathy with the world's Jewish communities in their perpetual struggle against oppression; they were driven almost exclusively by a desire to make the United Kingdom a Judeinrein entity.

The Left, by contrast, has always opposed antisemitism as it has opposed all forms of injustice.

In the UK, antisemitism, for decades now, has been the least prevalent form of bigotry of all, and there has been no significant increase in the incidence of antisemitism in any part of the UK political spectrum in the last few decades other than the right and the far right-from the Thatcherites to UKIP.

The actual victims of most prejudice in the UK these days are BAME (Britism people of color)communities, Muslims, LGBTQ people, and economic migrants from Eastern Europe.

 

josh

Once again, this is all about Israel.  This has nothing to do with anti-Semitism in the Labour Party but Corbyn’s refusal to adhere to the politically correct line when it comes to Israel and the Palestinians.  If he were to “repent” and adopt a pro-Israeli line, all these anti-Semitism charges would vanish overnight,

nicky

 

 

Two of Britain’s biggest trade unions have denounced the treatment of whistleblowers on antisemitism by the Labour leadership, dealing a fresh blow to Jeremy Corbyn.

Unison, the biggest union, and the GMB, the third largest, took the unusual step of publicly calling on the party to protect employees and former employees following condemnation of Labour’s response to fresh revelations about anti-Jewish abuse.

Unison said it had already raised concerns with the party leadership in private over Labour’s attack on whistleblowers and planned to do so again at a key meeting next week.

ADVERTISING

inRead invented by Teads

The unions intervened in the wake of a BBC Panorama documentary last week in which seven former Labour employees broke cover to speak out about their experiences.

They claimed that Mr Corbyn’s senior advisers and allies had repeatedly intervened in cases of alleged antisemitism, including pressure to urge more lenient punishments. Labour denied this, and has complained to the BBC about the programme.

    TOP ARTICLES2/6READ MORECHAPPAQUIDDICK 50 YEARS ON: THE CAR CRASH THAT FOREVER TARNISHED TED KENNEDY

Watch more

The party leadership was condemned by MPs, peers and some of its own staff over its response to the documentary after it questioned the whistleblowers’ motives, describing them as “disaffected former officials”. The party threatened some of them with legal action.

Unison and the GMB are Labour’s second and third biggest donors, after Unite. The GMB and Unite share responsibility for representing Labour Party staff.

Around 30 current and former Labour officials are understood to be ready to give evidence to the Equalities and Human Rights Commission (EHRC), which is investigating anti-Jewish abuse in Labour.

As the backlash over the party’s reaction to the Panorama programme continued, Unison and the GMB said they were concerned by the response and warned that employees must be free to speak out about wrongdoing without fear of punishment.

A Unison spokesperson told The Independent: “The law is there to protect any employee who raises genuine concerns about the running of an organisation and to protect them from unfair treatment when the issue is raised.

“This should be the case with any employee regardless of who they work for. Unison has already raised its concerns with the party following last week’s broadcast and plans to do so again at next week’s NEC.”

It is understood that Unison contacted Labour about the party’s response to the documentary in the immediate aftermath of the broadcast last week.

A GMB spokesperson said: “Of course people should speak out where they believe there is wrongdoing, and whistleblowers who do that should be protected from reprisals by employers.

“GMB exists for our members, we’re led by them and that’s no different when it comes to the Labour Party as an employer.”

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

(Self-delete. Dupe post.)

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Seriously?  You'd quote from a publication that still links to articles about Ted Kennedy's car accident from 50 years ago?

There hasn't been any harassment of anyone.

And the people who were cleared of the charges of antisemitism were cleared because they were innocent, because they aren't antisemites and they never said or did anything antisemitic.

All of your posts in the last week and a half about inciting a frenzy against Jeremy Corbyn and the overwhelming majority of Labour Party members and supporters whose policies he champions.

This is just about forcing Corbyn out and imposing a leader who is sharply to his right as his successor.  That's the only thing the anti-Corbyn MPs, the ones who refuse to accept that the party rank-and-file have permanently rejected the Third Way and Blue Labour, will settle for.  This is why all Labour MPs need to be subject to Open Selection before the next general election.  There's no excuse for a Labour constituency whose constituency party backs the Corbyn policies being saddled with an MP who was originally imposed on them against their will and who has spent her or his time for the last four years doing nothing but fighting against those policies and that leader.  The MP is not above the people of the party.

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Some of the TRUE movitivation driving Margaret Hodge's invention of the antisemitism lie/slur on Corbyn and the majority of the party who twice elected him leader:

https://ducksoap.wordpress.com/2018/07/17/margaret-hodge-has-a-good-reas...

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture
Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Tell me, nicky...you DO at least accept that opinions expressed about what the Israeli government does to Palestinians should never be labeled as antisemitism, right?  You do accept that opposing the actions of an increasingly oppressive goverment, actions that government has no valid reason to undertake-such as expanding the illegal West Bank settlements-has nothing whatsoever in common with expressing prejudice or hatred towards Jewish people, the various cultures associated with those people, or the religious traditions that some-but not all-of those people take part in, right?

You do accept that the State of Israel is not synonymous with Jews and Judaism, right?  I ask that because the vast majority of the populations of the world's Jewish communities don't see themselves as inseparable from Israel as a country or Zionism as a nationalist movement.

contrarianna

 

Jewish Voice for Labour hits out at Corbyn's critics for supporting ‘trashy inexcusable journalism’

LAMIAT SABIN WEDNESDAY, JULY 17, 2019

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/b/jewish-voice-for-labour-hits-o...

Also, from Jewish Voice for Labour

"Always with the oppressed; never with the oppressor."

*****

‘Labour Antisemitism’ Allegations are Usually Wrong. Disagree? Just Ask the IHRA

....

Conclusion

We have shown, in line with previous examinations of the data, that antisemitism among Labour constituencies is marginal and less prevalent than among Conservative constituencies.

There is some genuine antisemitism within the Labour Party. But the overwhelming media focus on Labour Party members — among whom there is likely less antisemitism than on the right, in the Conservative Party and in society as a whole — is a distortion that amounts to a political campaign under the guise and at the expense of genuine anti-racism.

There is also a more fundamental lesson here that applies beyond the current furore.

The IHRA was right to distinguish between negative stereotypes and ‘hatred’.

As Nadine Strossen, long-time former president of the American Civil Liberties Union, observes: ‘speech that reflects discriminatory stereotypes can often result from ignorance or insensitivity rather than malevolence’.

This is true for the vast majority of those who harbour one or more stereotypes about Jews, particularly in the case of left-wingers, Labour voters and Labour members.

Those pundits and political campaigners hounding the Labour Party over alleged disciplinary failures and demanding harsh sanctions against members, often without the slightest evidence that they harbour hatred toward Jews, ought to bear this in mind.

The correct approach to such stereotypes remains that put forward by one of the giants of the left-liberal tradition, John Stuart Mill, in his classic work On Liberty: full, frequent and fearless discussion....

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/labour-antisemitism-alle...

Meanwhile, the Guardian's UK  security state-linked disinformation and censorship campaign continues.

Most recently hitting long time Guardian cartoonist Steve Bell who took on Tom Watson's witch hunt.    The Guardian allowed the first two panels in the series but, too predictably, censored the last two. Here are the first two:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2019/jul/15/steve-bell...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2019/jul/16/steve-bell...

But then:

Exclusive - the Steve Bell cartoons the Guardian refused to publish

Socialist Worker exclusively publishes the Steve Bell cartoons the Guardian newspaper has refused to.

Steve Bell whose cartoons have appeared in the paper since 1981 said the paper's editors' refusal to run his cartoon, was due to "some mysterious editorial line" about antisemitism.

Labour deputy leader Tom Watson is depicted as an "antisemite finder general".

These instalments depict Watson encountering Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

"After our bizarre telephone conversation yesterday, I feared you might not publish today's strip," Steve wrote to an editor, "You said the 'lawyers are concerned' but about what? It's not antisemitic nor is it libellous."

Steve questions in his email why the Guardian can run adverts from members of the House of Lords attacking Jeremy Corbyn but pulled a letter defending Chris Williamson....

https://socialistworker.co.uk/art/48661/Exclusive+++the+Steve+Bell+carto...

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NDPP wrote:

Of course the British Left is not solely to be found in the British Labour Party, no more than the Canadian Left is solely to be found in the NDP. (Less and less actually and for similar reasons of 'tarnishing integrity', NOT A/S.) But a question for Nicky. Why do you suppose there is no Auntie S to be found in the Conservative party?

To clarify...of course there is a Left in the UK outside of the Labour Party, and I meant no disrespect at all to those who are part of it.  But if all of those on the Left within Labour-a group that actually makes up the majority of Labour Party members of supporters-are driven out of the party again, as essentially all socialists were driven out of it by Kinnock and Blair-that would leave the Left, once again, utterly powerless and irrelevant within British political and economic life.  It would re-create the conditions of the early Zeros, when two million people protested in London against the wars an allegedly Labour government helped perpetrate on the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, but there efforts were ignored.

The Greens might have provided an alternative locus for the people driven out of Labour, but now they've become, effectively, a party of the right by joining the all out fight to stop Brexit and, by definition, to preserve the current economic and social status quo in the UK for the rest of history.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

The "non-disclosure agreements" former Labour staffers made a show of "defying" on the now-discredited Panorama broadcast were imposed not by Corybn or his staff, but by Ian MacNicol, the right-wing anti-Corbynite who had formerly been party general secretary-and has since demonstrated how little Labour values ever meant to him by accepting a peerage.  According to the article, MacNicol's allies also made hundreds of thousands of pounds from the non-disclosure agreement process:

https://skwawkbox.org/2019/07/16/excl-labour-gagging-orders-put-in-place...

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture
Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

More evidence that this is all a coordinated slur campaign: 

https://dissidentvoice.org/2019/07/with-panoramas-hatchet-job-on-labour-...

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture
Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

(Self-delete. Dupe post.)

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

 text

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture
nicky

The Morning Star!!!!???

Really, Ken......

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:
The Morning Star!!!!??? Really, Ken......

Why not?  This isn't 1947-not only does the paper not take orders from Stalin, there's no Stalin to take orders FROM.    

And Ken Loach, the person interviewed in the piece, has always been a man of the non-Stalinist Left.  There's nothing he says in the article that only a lackey of the KGB could say.  Loach has never followed a party line in his life.

When it comes to Corbyn and the antisemitism lie-slur, articles appearing in the Morning Star, a paper which has often been critical of Corbyn's policy and strategic choices, are at least as credible as articles from the New Statesman and the Guardian, both of which have written from a position of implacable hostility towards Corbyn and his supporters from the start.   The Guardian and The New Statesman don't want Labour to be a Left party-they want it to be "center-left", a term which can only mean pro-war, pro-austerity, anti-internal party democracy, sectarian-Blairism. 

I get it that you're always going to be anti-Corbyn, because you are anti-grassroots activism, anti-protest, and anti-Left by nature-but you're a better person than to pass on toxic slanders against a good man and to participate in a vilification campaign against his supporters, a group who are more anti-racist than anybody else in UK politics and a group who have always been passionately opposed to antisemtism.

There's no greater good that could possibly come from forcing Corbyn and his supporters out of the party by the use of treachery and lies.  Doing that will drive the young out of political involvement in the UK for good.  While the young would support a decent successor to Corbyn-which would have to mean a left-wing, antiwar, anti-austerity successor-they would never rally behind anyone who was only in the job as a result of Corbyn being forced out by the means the anti-Corbynites are currently using. 

If Corbyn were not under relentless attack from those who've refused to accept him as leader, he would have Labour in a solid lead in the polls.  Indeed, even with the endless demonization and smears, he has had the party in the lead under numerous occasions during his leadership.  If his enemies had accepted that those poll leads meant they should stop attacking the guy and give him their support, a Labour victory under Corbyn would be a virtual certainty at this point.

If nothing else, this situation has made the case for Open Selection of all Labour candidates, even sitting MPs seeing re-election, between EVERY general election.  It is a disgrace that, having been imposed as Labour candidates decades ago by Tony Blair or Neil Kinnock, and always against the will of their own constituency parties, MPs seem to be free to act as though they are somehow above the party who has kept electing and re-electing them, seem to feel they owe that party and the constituency workers to whom they owe their jobs nothing at all, including respect.

There's no good reason this state of affairs should be allowed to continue.  There are virtually no seats Labour currently holds because a right-winger was imposed as nominee against the wishes of a left-wing constuency party, and there is no reason that an MP should be essentially guaranteed re-selection for life, simply because the seat stayed in the hands of the MP's party at the previous election.  And none of the anti-Corbyn MPs, in particular, are entitled to see themselves as they currently do-as gods who walk the earth.

 

Let's go over the reality again:  

Chris Williamson NEVER said the party shouldn't "apologize for antisemitism".  He said that Labour, as everyone knows, has no significant problem with antisemitism and that it's continual efforts, under Corbyn at least as much if not more than every previous leader, to fight antisemitism have been a comprehensive success and that, therefore, Labour simply has nothing to apologize FOR.  He said nothing that came remotely close to saying what he was accused of saying and you know it.

The Formby Report proved that there was, at most a minute incidence of antisemitism within Labour.  The piece posted above by Jewish Voice for Labour proves that antisemitism in the UK is concentrated overwhelmingly within the right. Rather than accept this as proof that there's no issue, Tom Watson once against worked to sabotage his own party by leading a vilification campaign against Jenny Formby herself, doing so at a time when Formby is fighting a major health issue and is thus unavailable to defend herself from the smear.

Margaret Hodge made 200 accusations of antisemitism, only 20 of which were found to have any validity at all by the party's disciplinary bodies. 

The "non-disclosure agreements" the BBC made such a fuss about were NOT imposed by Corbyn or his aides at all, have been proven to have been imposed by Iain MacNicol, the former Labour general secretary who devoted most of his energies in that job to trying to force Corbyn out of the position the party rank-and-file overwhelmingly elected him to twice, the second time by an increase margin which would have been much, much larger had MacNicol not suspended or expelled 100,000 people from the party on utterly spurious grounds before the leadership re-vote.  Corbyn and his aides never tried to silence those people at all.

The claims of mass antisemitism within Labour, and particularly the claims that Corbyn's supporters are singularly antisemitic, are based on nothing but a coordinated campaign of unsubstantiated anecdotes. 

The antisemitic emails Luciana Berger made her gratuitously weepy speech to the House of Commons about were from a time BEFORE Corbyn won the leadership, and(on edit) it was later determined that all of them were from far right thugs who were already in jail by the time Berger made that speech-which proves that neither Corbyn nor his supporters nor anybody in the Labour Party were responsible for those hateful messages and that, therefore, Berger had no justification for blaming Corbyn or his supporters for those emails at all.

You need to recognize this for what it is, nicky-a coordinated campaign by the Labour Right and the British political/media establishment in general to create an anti-Corbyn, anti-Left frenzy in the run-up to what is almost certain to be an early general election.

The Guardian is doing it because they are pissed off that Corbyn wouldn't put the pointless fight for a second referendum on the EU before ALL other issues in life.

The Labour Right-which these days consists of about two-thirds of the Labour MPs and essentially nobody else-is going all-in on this because they still don't accept that the rank-and-file of the party had the right to defy their wishes about who should be leader. 

Margaret Hodge is doing what she is doing largely out of personal animus; she has never forgiven Corbyn for his role in investigating her negligence in dealing with reports of child abuse in council care facilities when she chaired Islington Council, and because, years ago, Corbyn defeated her in a debate about Clause Four before a local Labour group in Islington.  

Corbyn's supporters have done nothing to be accused of hatred of Jews, because all they're guilty of is criticizing the indefensible treatment the Israeli government has visited on ordinary Palestinians.  Such criticism is virtually never driven by antisemitism-in the trivially small number of cases where antisemitism has cropped up in such comments, the Palestinian solidarity community in the UK has denounced those making such comments and driven them out.

Why should criticism of the Israeli government be sharply restricted or forbidden in the name of fighting antisemitism when it essentially never is antisemitic and when those who are in solidarity with the people of Palestine  always anathemize the tiny number of people who make comments that cross that line?

And why should there ever be an assumption that the State of Israel, on the one hand, and the world's Jewish communities, on the other, are somehow one and the same, are somehow indistinguishable?  You do realize that the equation of Israel as a country and the world's Jewish communities as a group is, itself, an antisemitic trope, do you not?

And I've asked you this before, but you've consistently refused to answer this question-does it not strike you as being at all suspicious that Jeremy Corbyn had been an MP since 1983, yet neither he nor his supporters were ever accused of antisemitism until 2015?   

josh

Well said,

NDPP

"If Corbyn loses, a lot of people in the Labour Party are going to blame it on these Jews who fabricated the whole anti-Semitism witch-hunt hysteria...Jews were the spearhead of this campaign to stop Corbyn. And so there's going to be a lot of anger within the Labour Party. That's not anti-Semitism, that's factually based...

They played the most visible role and they played the most aggressive role. The British elites could not have gotten away with calling Corbyn an anti-Semite unless they had the support, the visible support of all the leading Jewish organizations. They are the enablers of this campaign..."

Prof Norman Finkelstein on Corbyn Anti-Semite Claims

https://twitter.com/angelcakepics/status/1144194715786645506

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

josh wrote:

Well said,

 

I agree with Josh. Very well stated, Ken. I had no idea of how toxic the accusations and anti-Corbyn campaign had become. His critics should be more concerned with all the deaths caused by Blair's hawkish support of George W. Bush and his Afganistan and Iraq invasions.

Misfit Misfit's picture

They made too much money and profited by supporting the wars.

JKR

NDPP wrote:

"If Corbyn loses, a lot of people in the Labour Party are going to blame it on these Jews who fabricated the whole anti-Semitism witch-hunt hysteria...Jews were the spearhead of this campaign to stop Corbyn. And so there's going to be a lot of anger within the Labour Party. That's not anti-Semitism, that's factually based...

Sounds like anti-Semitism to me.

josh

And factually incorrect.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Now that Boris Johnson has become prime minister, NOTHING matters more than unifying the Labour Party to beat the Tories.  The only way to make that happen is for the entire anti-Corbyn and anti-Corbynite smear campaign to be brought to an immediate end.  There could be a general election at any moment, and it's too late for Labour to change leaders now no matter what.

Do the right thing, Tom Watson.  Do the right thing, Margaret Hodge.  Do the right thing, Labour peers-let the lies stop and let the unity begin.  It's either get behind Corbyn and work for victory or admit that none of you give a damn about beating the Tories at all.

nicky

If in fact nothing matters more than beating the Tories, should Corbyn not do the responsible thing for his party and step aside? How much more evidence do we need that he is the Tories biggest single electoral advantage?

it is not too late to replace him. Any pretence to the contrary is not a good reason to keep him.

 

MegB

nicky wrote:

It is not a slur because there is a lot of truth behind it.

it is not an attempt to destroy the British Left , rather an attempt to redeem it from an ugly tendency among many of Corbyn’s supporters.

if there is an attempt to destroy the British left it is by anti-Semites who are tarnishing it’s integrity. It also lies in the refusal of Corbyn to confront this disease,

You know continuing to repeat this crap doesn't make it any less than what it is - a smear campaign by those who reject progressive anti-racist values. Your position has no merit, no credible substance and has been thoroughly refuted by very credible sources. So you need stop. Like, right now, or I will take the decision out of your hands.

contrarianna

Nicky's current favorite ought  to resign.

Tom Watson gaining celebrety status from the Antisemitism smear is not his first foray into political self-promotion by way of fraudulent wtch hunts, and fabrications which destroy lives:

Tom Watson now "regrets" being a major promoter of Carl Beech's fabrications following this creature's conviction:

Carl Beech: Liar, fraudster and paedophile 23 July 2019

[Beech's] claims that he and others had been the victim of sexual abuse by a "VIP ring" in the late 1970s and early 1980s, and that he had witnessed three child murders by members of the same group, featured prominently on BBC News, in a British national newspaper and on a now-defunct website called Exaro.

However, while he was promoting his lies, Beech was busy downloading child abuse imagery and covertly filming a teenage boy.

On 22 July, Beech was found guilty of 12 counts of perverting the course of justice and one of fraud, at the end of a 12-week trial.

The investigation - known as Operation Midland - would cost some £2.5m. But by the time it was wound up, not one arrest had been made.

Beech, however, received more than £20,000 in public money as compensation for injuries he claimed were inflicted during the alleged abuse - injuries he had never actually suffered....

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49048972

On this, Watson's, actions, writings, and incoherent walk-back.

Carl Beech: Tom Watson says he held meeting 'to reassure him'       23 July 2019

....Former MP Harvey Proctor, who was one of the men named by Beech, has since accused Mr Watson of giving "oxygen" to Beech's false claims against him.

Information from Mr Watson had generated several investigations after he claimed in Parliament in October 2012 that secret files relating to a different case could show there was "powerful paedophile network linked to Parliament and No 10".

In November 2014 detectives launched the disastrous Operation Midland, which spent 18 months looking into Beech's claims of abuse and murder, conducting raids of suspects' homes and interviews under caution along the way.

....

Mr Watson said Beech never told him the names of the public figures he was accusing.

But in January 2015 - following the death of Lord Brittan, also one of the men Beech accused - he wrote an article for the Sunday People about the late peer, stating: "I have spoken to those who claimed he abused them. So these allegations have come to me first-hand, not through insinuation or innuendo".

In a reference to Beech, he said he'd "spoken to a man" who had made serious abuse allegations against Lord Brittan.

The article accompanied the revelation that Lord Brittan was under investigation by Operation Midland....

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49086717

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

MegB wrote:

nicky wrote:

It is not a slur because there is a lot of truth behind it.

it is not an attempt to destroy the British Left , rather an attempt to redeem it from an ugly tendency among many of Corbyn’s supporters.

if there is an attempt to destroy the British left it is by anti-Semites who are tarnishing it’s integrity. It also lies in the refusal of Corbyn to confront this disease,

You know continuing to repeat this crap doesn't make it any less than what it is - a smear campaign by those who reject progressive anti-racist values. Your position has no merit, no credible substance and has been thoroughly refuted by very credible sources. So you need stop. Like, right now, or I will take the decision out of your hands.

Thanks, MegB.

josh

Ken Burch wrote:

Now that Boris Johnson has become prime minister, NOTHING matters more than unifying the Labour Party to beat the Tories.  The only way to make that happen is for the entire anti-Corbyn and anti-Corbynite smear campaign to be brought to an immediate end.  There could be a general election at any moment, and it's too late for Labour to change leaders now no matter what.

Do the right thing, Tom Watson.  Do the right thing, Margaret Hodge.  Do the right thing, Labour peers-let the lies stop and let the unity begin.  It's either get behind Corbyn and work for victory or admit that none of you give a damn about beating the Tories at all.

That’s the last thing certain sections of the Labour Party want.  They’d rather see a PM Johnson than a PM Corbyn.

nicky

Even Corbyn admits that Labour has an ant-Semitism problem

https://www.cjnews.com/news/international/jeremy-corbyn-admits-his-labour-party-has-an-anti-semitism-problem

Should he be banned from Babble for saying this?

NDPP

I don't agree with the intervention  and threat made on behalf of one of the parties in this thread's antisemitism contention. It is a dangerous road to go down to declare and enforce one right and one wrong in circumstances where both positions have serious and substantial support across the political spectrum in the UK itself. I recall a similar intervention on behalf of a prevailing orthodoxy regarding the 'Arab Spring' which resulted in bannings because someone refused to adopt a majority msm opinion that turned out to be just plain wrong. I do not wish to see the enforcement of favoured or majority views here by a threatening authority, whether I agree with those positions or not. Please reconsider.

josh

nicky wrote:

Even Corbyn admits that Labour has an ant-Semitism problem

https://www.cjnews.com/news/international/jeremy-corbyn-admits-his-labour-party-has-an-anti-semitism-problem

Should he be banned from Babble for saying this?

If he didn’t, he’d be accused of being anti-Semitic.  A few cranks who post online does not make a whole party one thing or another.

josh

NDPP wrote:

I don't agree with the intervention  and threat made on behalf of one of the parties in this thread's antisemitism contention. It is a dangerous road to go down to declare and enforce one right and one wrong in circumstances where both positions have serious and substantial support across the political spectrum in the UK itself. I recall a similar intervention on behalf of a prevailing orthodoxy regarding the 'Arab Spring' which resulted in bannings because someone refused to adopt a majority msm opinion that turned out to be just plain wrong. I do not wish to see the enforcement of favoured or majority views here by a threatening authority, whether I agree with those positions or not. Please reconsider.

I agree.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:

Even Corbyn admits that Labour has an ant-Semitism problem

https://www.cjnews.com/news/international/jeremy-corbyn-admits-his-labour-party-has-an-anti-semitism-problem

Should he be banned from Babble for saying this?

He said there was a tiny number of people saying extreme things on that, and what he did there put it to rest.  That doesn't come anywhere close to myth the BBC and the Labour Right that the party is riddled with antisemitism and that there need to be mass autoexpulsions.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

If Corbyn and his supporters weren't accused of antisemitism before 2015-and they clearly never were-than nothing could possibly equate to Corbyn and his supporters having a massive issue with that now.

The ONLY thing that has changed is that Labour has a leader who doesn't feel obligated to defend everything Netanyahu does to Palestinians without question, and who acknowledges, as you don't that the people of Palestine never deserved the decades of collective punishment and collective lack of recognition of their basic humanity they've received from Israeli governments of all parties.

Unionist

josh wrote:

NDPP wrote:

I don't agree with the intervention  and threat made on behalf of one of the parties in this thread's antisemitism contention. It is a dangerous road to go down to declare and enforce one right and one wrong in circumstances where both positions have serious and substantial support across the political spectrum in the UK itself. I recall a similar intervention on behalf of a prevailing orthodoxy regarding the 'Arab Spring' which resulted in bannings because someone refused to adopt a majority msm opinion that turned out to be just plain wrong. I do not wish to see the enforcement of favoured or majority views here by a threatening authority, whether I agree with those positions or not. Please reconsider.

I agree.

Me too.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Ken Burch wrote:

If Corbyn and his supporters weren't accused of antisemitism before 2015-and they clearly never were-than nothing could possibly equate to Corbyn and his supporters having a massive issue with that now.

The ONLY thing that has changed is that Labour has a leader who doesn't feel obligated to defend everything Netanyahu does to Palestinians without question, and who acknowledges, as you don't that the people of Palestine never deserved the decades of collective punishment and collective lack of recognition of their basic humanity they've received from Israeli governments of all parties.

Well said.

And I also agree with NDPP, Josh and Unionist that Nicky should not be silenced.

 

Pages