Are the people who put hatred of Hillary above all else happy, now?

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Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture
Are the people who put hatred of Hillary above all else happy, now?

There is a very good chance you're going to get your wish and Donald Fucking Trump will be president.

All hope for anything in the U.S. will be dead for years to come, if not forever, if that happens.

This is Germany, 1933 right now, folks.

Race War, uncontrolled resource extraction, MORE slaughter in the Middle East.

The repeal of the Affordable Care Act and nothing put in in its place.

But at least some people are preserving their purity.

 

Issues Pages: 
Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture
Aristotleded24

Ken Burch wrote:
There is a very good chance you're going to get your wish and Donald Fucking Trump will be president.

No no no no no. People will make their choices, and it's up to each individual candate to try and win over the voters. For Clinton to lose this election, given her name recognition, networks within the Democratic Party, a media machine that was solidly behind her in the early days, and the observation that Trump is a complete buffoon, you have to be pretty horrible to lose in this climate. If you want someone to blame for Clinton losing, [url=http://www.huffingtonpost.in/entry/if-trump-wins-blame-clinton_us_57e213... blaming Hillary Clinton.[/url]

Ken Burch wrote:
Race War, uncontrolled resource extraction, MORE slaughter in the Middle East.

Which is pretty much what we have going on right now.

Ken Burch wrote:
The repeal of the Affordable Care Act and nothing put in in its place.

Obamacare was essentially a giveaway to insurance companies that still left people without coverage. Obama could have expanded Medicare long ago early in his mandate when he had the political capital, but he chose not to.

Martin N.

People are not voting for Trump, per se, they are voting against the system - against the Clinton machine.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Bravo,well done America. I hope you enjoy your choice. You'll be begging for Obama this time next year.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Financial markets diving.

Misfit

This is totally fucking evil!!!

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:
There is a very good chance you're going to get your wish and Donald Fucking Trump will be president.

No no no no no. People will make their choices, and it's up to each individual candate to try and win over the voters. For Clinton to lose this election, given her name recognition, networks within the Democratic Party, a media machine that was solidly behind her in the early days, and the observation that Trump is a complete buffoon, you have to be pretty horrible to lose in this climate. If you want someone to blame for Clinton losing, [url=http://www.huffingtonpost.in/entry/if-trump-wins-blame-clinton_us_57e213... blaming Hillary Clinton.[/url]

Ken Burch wrote:
Race War, uncontrolled resource extraction, MORE slaughter in the Middle East.

Which is pretty much what we have going on right now.

Ken Burch wrote:
The repeal of the Affordable Care Act and nothing put in in its place.

Obamacare was essentially a giveaway to insurance companies that still left people without coverage. Obama could have expanded Medicare long ago early in his mandate when he had the political capital, but he chose not to.

What part of "there was no chance of stopping Trump without voting Hillary" did you not understand?  The differences were not meaningless(although I agree with you that Hillary ran a horrible campaign) and now a huge number of innocent people are going to suffer because of the attitude your post embodied.

voice of the damned

I think I'm in the middle on this. Trump will be as bad as Ronald Reagan, but probably not as bad as George W. Bush. In fact, my main worry is that, like Reagan, he really won't take much direct interest in governing, but rather delegate things out to Republican hacks.

And yes, government by a dimwit under the sway of hacks would have been eenough to make me vote Democrat.

Cody87

I don't have a lot to say. Only two things.

First, with respect to the title, I don't think many people who held their nose to vote Trump hated Clinton to nearly the degree that they feared her.

Second, I have bounced between CNN and NBC all night, with some social media mixed in. Pundits on both stations continue to say "nobody expected Trump to (win more Latinos than Romney)(win in the rustbelt)(have such a high turnout)". Also things like "all the polls were wrong who could have guessed?" Plenty of people were saying/expected it. Just not connected people.

I do feel bad for the millions of Americans who have been lied to, but worse for the millions who have been lied about.

bekayne

Cody87 wrote:

I do feel bad for the millions of Americans who have been lied to

Those that believed Trump?

Aristotleded24

bekayne wrote:

Cody87 wrote:

I do feel bad for the millions of Americans who have been lied to

Those that believed Trump?

And Clinton.

NDPP

Hillary Clinton Will Not Speak Tonight: Her Campaign Manager Tells Supporters To Go Home

https://t.co/eSW5ejmesq

"Clinton should have addressed supporters - people waited for hours....Lady Gaga crying backstage."

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Indeed.  Everything good in the country is nearly dead tonight. 

wage zombie

Don't blame Canadian babblers for Clinton being an atrocious loser.

jambo101 jambo101's picture

Cody87 wrote:

 Also things like "all the polls were wrong who could have guessed?"

  Odd that almost every poll was wrong,i dont trust this electronic ballot as a means of voting as there is a possibility it could have been manipulated.

jjuares

I am reading Thomas Frank's "Listen Liberals". In it he argues that the Democrats abandoned the working class. Tonight it seems that the working class abandoned the Democrats.

josh

jjuares wrote:
I am reading Thomas Frank's "Listen Liberals". In it he argues that the Democrats abandoned the working class. Tonight it seems that the working class abandoned the Democrats.

It's the same argument he made in 2004 in What's the Matter With Kansas. What I don't get is how a white working class voter in places like Michigan and Wisconsin could vote for Obama in 2012 when economic conditions were worse, and turn around and vote for Trump.

jjuares

josh wrote:
jjuares wrote:
I am reading Thomas Frank's "Listen Liberals". In it he argues that the Democrats abandoned the working class. Tonight it seems that the working class abandoned the Democrats.

It's the same argument he made in 2004 in What's the Matter With Kansas. What I don't get is how a white working class voter in places like Michigan and Wisconsin could vote for Obama in 2012 when economic conditions were worse, and turn around and vote for Trump.

I believe that Obama was offering a populist image much like Trump was. Populism can be right or left wing. Clinton with the emails, foundation, and the war vote was such a flawed candidate. And she was not credibile as a populist.

josh

Obama isn't really a populist, as his support of the TPP can attest. And given his race, the argument that these particular voters voted for Trump,because of racism really doesn't hold water.

swallow

jjuares wrote:
I am reading Thomas Frank's "Listen Liberals". In it he argues that the Democrats abandoned the working class. Tonight it seems that the working class abandoned the Democrats.

He may have a point. But please, please, let's not write "working class" when we mean "white working class." Let's not assume whiteness. The numbers show there's no "post-racial America." 

swallow

Ken and others in the USA: sending you love at a dark time. 

I think it means people need to resist, and not believe government will deliver change. Only people standing together and resisting will do that. (Mourn, then organize, to mangle the slogan.) 

Pondering

No one represents the 99%. Bernie Sanders would have beaten Trump. Canada is no better. We only have neoliberal parties to choose from.

Anti-establishment sentiment is rising and it is the right who has tapped into it while the left is split between sell-outs and extremists.

6079_Smith_W

swallow wrote:

not believe government will deliver change.

Actually government can and does deliver change. Sometimes very, very bad change.

This was not a meaningless decision, there will be consequences, and no, the natural healthy state of things is not people constantly under assault from their government.

I know you are trying to say something supportive, but I have dealt with one too many people trying to downplay the significance of this.

 

swallow

You may be right Winston. No intention to downplay the significance of the triumph of racist elites and a billionaire hatemonger. But you know what my intent was, anyway. 

iyraste1313

The election of Trump means the death of corporate globalization...we are now to watch the battle between Trump`s forces and the elites determined to crush him, somehow.......no doubt things will be bad...Trump will resort to even greater measures of control...but with the surveillance and control system well in place, thanks to those both so called left and right...it means the revival of a populist progressive movement in the States.......

In Canada? Watch out! the tentacles of their system of control will quickly infuse our own!

Maybe now? Maybe! People will wake up and begin getting it together, with some serious and fundamental vision....

*and extremists.*...I suppose anyone left of Attila the Hun in Canada may be called an extremist!

swallow

Bullshit. Trump embodies corporate rule. 

By the way re "working class" -

Quote:
Broken down by income bracket, 52% of voters earning less than $50,000 a year – who make up 36% of the electorate – voted for Clinton, and 41% for Trump. Among the 64% of American voters who earn more than $50,000 a year, 49% chose Trump and 47% for Clinton.

[url=https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/white-voters-victory-don... polling[/url]

SeekingAPolitic...

What can Canada learn from what happen in the us.  I have spent considerable amount of time on rabble trying push my theory that the same forces affecting europe and the usa are coming to Canada.  So I ask the leadership of the NDP to position themselves and take political advantage of what is coming.  No need to throw the ndp on its ear but consider for moment that being the defenders of the status quo is counterproductive.  Consider a adding little spice to the party messaging.  Why is the ndp afraid of a little populaism and talking about class.  Experiment with it and see if it pays off.  When the strom comes be able to respond.  I dont want anyone suffer from whats coming, i am not cheering for it.  I just believe its coming to canada.

Pondering

iyraste1313 wrote:

The election of Trump means the death of corporate globalization...we are now to watch the battle between Trump`s forces and the elites determined to crush him, somehow.......no doubt things will be bad...Trump will resort to even greater measures of control...but with the surveillance and control system well in place, thanks to those both so called left and right...it means the revival of a populist progressive movement in the States.......

In Canada? Watch out! the tentacles of their system of control will quickly infuse our own!

Maybe now? Maybe! People will wake up and begin getting it together, with some serious and fundamental vision....

*and extremists.*...I suppose anyone left of Attila the Hun in Canada may be called an extremist!

I should have said purists rather than extremists. The closest thing that comes to representing the 99% in Canada is The Leap Manifesto but the purist approach dooms it.

Ontario is more likely to go Conservative rather than NDP after the Liberals lose power. I don't think it's possible to destroy Trudeau but if it were it would only result in another Conservative win. Even if the NDP were to win they just want to soften the edges of neoliberalism not rock the boat.

Trump's win does not mean the death of corporatism. The US is not going to stop trading or stop warring. The oligarchs may not be able to extend their power through TPP and TIPP but the power they have is still considerable and well-consolidated. They can afford to ride out depressions and recessions and wars. The collapse of Greece has been an opportunity to buy properties cheap.

 

iyraste1313

Trump's win does not mean the death of corporatism......

Some of the most powerful players are going to take a big hit! And they will fight back, no doubt...we are entering a period of great instability and certainly conflict at the top amongst the corporates...no corporatism perse is not dead, but the globalists amongst them are in trouble.......

As Trump tries to build a corporate sovereigntist economy, he may be pushed to finance, subsidize national enterprises, thus the end of the free trade deals...

the best news of course is the MSM. They will fiercely fight Trump´s sovereigntist economics and politics, tooth and nail...so unwittingly, progressives for once will have an ally amongst these scoundrels...

But umtimately as always, it depends on people of vision to build an alternative...it will never be done from the top

quizzical

how are they going to take a hit?

i don't believe for a minute Trump is going nationalist.

Aristotleded24

Ken Burch wrote:
Indeed.  Everything good in the country is nearly dead tonight.

Oh for fuck sake, that's a bit much. Several states voted to legalize marijuana and Colorado voted to increase the minimum wage (although the loss on the issue of single payer hurts). Not that things are great, and we should call out bad things when they happen, but this whole "the sky is falling! The sky is falling!" routine that the left does every time a right-winger makes it into power causes people to not take the left seriously.

I looked east this morning, and the sun is in its usual position for this time of day. Try that in a few hours and (unless it's cloudy) you'll see the same thing. Then, we do the best we can with the day that is given to us.

Cody87

swallow wrote:

jjuares wrote:
I am reading Thomas Frank's "Listen Liberals". In it he argues that the Democrats abandoned the working class. Tonight it seems that the working class abandoned the Democrats.

He may have a point. But please, please, let's not write "working class" when we mean "white working class." Let's not assume whiteness. The numbers show there's no "post-racial America." 

You're completely correct, even if the reason is not (in my opinion) why you think.

How can there be a post racial America when the media (and the left!!) continually scapegoats white people?

How absurd is it that when a black cop shoots a black suspect who is armed and resisting arrest in a black neighbourhood, the next day the POTUS and Democratic nominee come out and tell white people they need to listen better?

Everything gets blamed on white people. Or men. Or both. Read any commentary on anything and see who brings race and gender into it.

After reading what was said about berniebros and Trump supporters for the last 18 months, it is no wonder that many white working class people feel abandoned by the democrats and returned the favour.

Pondering

I suspect Trump will be easily bought. Apparently he is not nearly as rich as he likes to portray.

quizzical

Cody87 wrote:
swallow wrote:

jjuares wrote:
I am reading Thomas Frank's "Listen Liberals". In it he argues that the Democrats abandoned the working class. Tonight it seems that the working class abandoned the Democrats.

He may have a point. But please, please, let's not write "working class" when we mean "white working class." Let's not assume whiteness. The numbers show there's no "post-racial America." 

You're completely correct, even if the reason is not (in my opinion) why you think.

How can there be a post racial America when the media (and the left!!) continually scapegoats white people?

uh cody your analysis overlooks the reality it's white people (men) controlling and destroying the world.

Quote:
How absurd is it that when a black cop shoots a black suspect who is armed and resisting arrest in a black neighbourhood, the next day the POTUS and Democratic nominee come out and tell white people they need to listen better?

how often has this happened in compare to the dozen of white cops shooting? are you now going to deny persons of colour are punished and imprisoned more than white people too?

Quote:
Everything gets blamed on white people. Or men. Or both. Read any commentary on anything and see who brings race and gender into it.

and so they should. who is in control of the world's shitpiles other than white men? ffs your lack of truth is amazing.

 

Pondering

josh wrote:
jjuares wrote:
I am reading Thomas Frank's "Listen Liberals". In it he argues that the Democrats abandoned the working class. Tonight it seems that the working class abandoned the Democrats.
It's the same argument he made in 2004 in What's the Matter With Kansas. What I don't get is how a white working class voter in places like Michigan and Wisconsin could vote for Obama in 2012 when economic conditions were worse, and turn around and vote for Trump.

Because in both cases they were the anti-establishment candidates or the closest thing to it. They don't necessarily expect anything to really get better for them although I am sure some hope. Obama didn't deliver enough. They are angry and Trump expressed that anger.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/730459/Julian-Assange-Wikileaks-Hill...

HILLARY Clinton may have paved the way for Donald Trump's victory and sealed her own fate by trying to elevate the controversial business tycoon in the press in the hope it would damage the Republicans.

People are sick of the above. It is mind-boggling that the only two real contenders for the presidency of the most powerful country in the world were Clinton and Trump.

You can condemn Trump voters but the bottom line is that the left is failing to reach the people it claims to represent.

 

 

lagatta

This is an extremely offensive comment:

Everything gets blamed on white people. Or men. Or both. Read any commentary on anything and see who brings race and gender into it.

As if acknowledging patriarchy and the continuing legacy of slavery are in some way a denial of the class struggle. Bullshit.

There are very, very few "extremist" leftists within the Canadian state, unless one means a few members of extreme sects, who have no influence on anything. Naomi Klein is so "extreme" or "purist" that Pope Francis invites her to the Vatican. And it is ridiculous to call, say, Québec solidaire, or the more lefty members of the NDP extremists.

 

Martin N.

Hillary still hasn't showed up for her speech. She must be devastated. News reports her locked in her hotel room since last night.

Martin N.

lagatta wrote:

This is an extremely offensive comment:

Everything gets blamed on white people. Or men. Or both. Read any commentary on anything and see who brings race and gender into it.

As if acknowledging patriarchy and the continuing legacy of slavery are in some way a denial of the class struggle. Bullshit.

There are very, very few "extremist" leftists within the Canadian state, unless one means a few members of extreme sects, who have no influence on anything. Naomi Klein is so "extreme" or "purist" that Pope Francis invites her to the Vatican. And it is ridiculous to call, say, Québec solidaire, or the more lefty members of the NDP extremists.

 

There is nothing wrong with acknowledging patriarchy and the continuing legacy of slavery but are these issues not better served by increased exposure to their debilitating effects than by chucking merde in all directions? These issues are not on most peoples' radar and need to be raised with education, not scoldings and accusations of bigotry and racism.

Pondering

lagatta wrote:
There are very, very few "extremist" leftists within the Canadian state, unless one means a few members of extreme sects, who have no influence on anything. Naomi Klein is so "extreme" or "purist" that Pope Francis invites her to the Vatican. And it is ridiculous to call, say, Québec solidaire, or the more lefty members of the NDP extremists.

The NDP certainly isn't extreme or purist nor would I typlify Klein as such. I consider the Leap Manifesto a good roadmap for the future that is being poorly sold.

QS is a bit more so. They do not appeal to the 99%. I think that in effect the left divides us instead of uniting us and that has led to the triumph of neoliberalism and right wing thought.

We are facing a formidable foe and the outcome will decide nothing less than the future of Earth. Neoliberalism drives climate change and income inequality which drive sexism, racism, war and extreme poverty. Defeat neoliberalism and all the problems of the world become infinitely easier to tackle.

Ironically Trump may be the end of TTIP and TTP and maybe even NAFTA.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Donald Trump won't be shaping policy as of January 2017. Ayn Rand will. It doesn't matter what Trump says. He's a Republican and will fall right into line. Thee only thing he will do is pick the head of the FBI (Guilliani) , the Secretary of State (Gingrich), The Attorney General (Christie) and I'm sure he has some positions for Hannity,Baio and Nugent.

The Repugnicans have an official party platform and it makes the Reagan Administration look Liberal in comparison.

It's easy for me to say fuck them,they made their own bed,now they have to sleep in it. Unfortunately,Canada is attached to this massive cancerous tumor. The next 4 years are going to fuck us almost as much as it will Americans.

Martin N.

So you're a 'glass half empty' kinda guy?

Paladin1

Democracy is great until your party doesn't get voted in, then it's Hitler.

It's ironic too considering Clinton expresssed that the US should have fixed the election in Palastine when Hamas got democratically voted in.

Sean in Ottawa

Martin N. wrote:
So you're a 'glass half empty' kinda guy?

He is.

The glass is poison.

The US and the world could afford reversal in social progress in the past and we could wait them out hoping for next time.

The planet does not have the time now. Electing a President hostile to climate science threatens not just one generation or country but all countries and all future generations. I have explained at length the connection between global and national inequality and environmental challenges. Republicans threaten both directly.

No sense dressing this up. It is urgent to find other ways for people to fight for progress as waiting four years is no longer an option.

swallow

White supremacy exists, Cody. If you deny that, if you deny that America is a structurally racist country against non-white people, you might as well deny the existence of climate change. Or evolution. 

I realize some voters in the USA (and here too) deny all those things, of course. 

Sean in Ottawa

Paladin1 wrote:

Democracy is great until your party doesn't get voted in, then it's Hitler.

It's ironic too considering Clinton expresssed that the US should have fixed the election in Palastine when Hamas got democratically voted in.

Please do not minimize and normalize what just happened. Not on this site because the people here know that it is not normal.

Clinton would have been a bad president but Trump is a special case. In this place, if not others, the racism and sexism that came out in that campaign won't be dismissed as just the other party winning.

jjuares

swallow wrote:

jjuares wrote:
I am reading Thomas Frank's "Listen Liberals". In it he argues that the Democrats abandoned the working class. Tonight it seems that the working class abandoned the Democrats.

He may have a point. But please, please, let's not write "working class" when we mean "white working class." Let's not assume whiteness. The numbers show there's no "post-racial America." 


Yes, you are right. It was the white working class that abandoned the Democrats. In a subsequent post you quote an exit poll showing that Clinton won a bare majority of low income people. Of course Hispanics and African Americans would make up a huge number in Clinton's working class base. Faced with the bigotry of the Republicans most of them probably felt they had nowhere else to go. The white working class on the other hand had options.

jjuares

Trump is in favour of Keystone so that should make Trudeau happy in that regard. Trudeau is also in favour of it of course.

jjuares

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Paladin1 wrote:

Democracy is great until your party doesn't get voted in, then it's Hitler.

It's ironic too considering Clinton expresssed that the US should have fixed the election in Palastine when Hamas got democratically voted in.

Please do not minimize and normalize what just happened. Not on this site because the people here know that it is not normal.

Clinton would have been a bad president but Trump is a special case. In this place, if not others, the racism and sexism that came out in that campaign won't be dismissed as just the other party winning.


I believe it is fair to point nt out Clintons hypocrisy.

Paladin1

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Paladin1 wrote:

Democracy is great until your party doesn't get voted in, then it's Hitler.

It's ironic too considering Clinton expresssed that the US should have fixed the election in Palastine when Hamas got democratically voted in.

Please do not minimize and normalize what just happened. Not on this site because the people here know that it is not normal.

Clinton would have been a bad president but Trump is a special case. In this place, if not others, the racism and sexism that came out in that campaign won't be dismissed as just the other party winning.

 

No need to try and rally up a posse Sean, I'm certain you can make your own points without support.

When you look at most of the videos of violence committed against party supporters Trump supports have been on the recieving end. Even examples extending all the way up to Calgary. Assaulted for wearing  a hat.

If you'd like I can post a video of a Trump supporter who's incidentally a black homeless woman, getting shoved around harassed and abused by clinton supporters.  

The hatred that this election brought to the surface is hardly one sided.  Clinton is corrupt to the core. Her foundation accepted millions of dollars from countries that habitually minimize abuse and murder women and homosexuals such as Qutar and Saudi Arabia.  As well if you'd like I can post videos of Clinton laughing at murdering a foreign leader? 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Paladin1 wrote:

Democracy is great until your party doesn't get voted in, then it's Hitler.

It's ironic too considering Clinton expresssed that the US should have fixed the election in Palastine when Hamas got democratically voted in.

Please do not minimize and normalize what just happened. Not on this site because the people here know that it is not normal.

 

Thanks Sean. I don't believe Trumpers have a home at Babble. They can go masturbate  together at Breitbart.

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