Are the people who put hatred of Hillary above all else happy, now?

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NDPP

Trump's Revolution

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2016/11/08/trumps-revolution/

"Now beware the counter-revolution..."

bekayne
Cody87

swallow wrote:

White supremacy exists, Cody. If you deny that, if you deny that America is a structurally racist country against non-white people, you might as well deny the existence of climate change. Or evolution. 

I realize some voters in the USA (and here too) deny all those things, of course. 

White supremacy exists. Obviously. It is not widespread. The fact that David Duke exists does not mean that everything is the fault of white people.

Not every problem is because of white people being racist. And whether the left wants to accept it or not, the Trump movement has real foundations in a backlash against normalized racism against white people. Yeah, yeah, I know, "you can't be racist against white people."

That's exactly the thinking that caused this "problem."

Pondering

Cody87 wrote:

swallow wrote:

White supremacy exists, Cody. If you deny that, if you deny that America is a structurally racist country against non-white people, you might as well deny the existence of climate change. Or evolution. 

I realize some voters in the USA (and here too) deny all those things, of course. 

White supremacy exists. Obviously. It is not widespread. The fact that David Duke exists does not mean that everything is the fault of white people.

Not every problem is because of white people being racist. And whether the left wants to accept it or not, the Trump movement has real foundations in a backlash against normalized racism against white people. Yeah, yeah, I know, "you can't be racist against white people."

That's exactly the thinking that caused this "problem."

Not exactly. "Racism" against white people doesn't hold them back. Some think that it does because of affirmative action but that isn't what holds them back. Poverty and lack of education coupled with neoliberalsm are the culprits.

voice of the damned

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:
Indeed.  Everything good in the country is nearly dead tonight.

Oh for fuck sake, that's a bit much. Several states voted to legalize marijuana and Colorado voted to increase the minimum wage (although the loss on the issue of single payer hurts). Not that things are great, and we should call out bad things when they happen, but this whole "the sky is falling! The sky is falling!" routine that the left does every time a right-winger makes it into power causes people to not take the left seriously.

I looked east this morning, and the sun is in its usual position for this time of day. Try that in a few hours and (unless it's cloudy) you'll see the same thing. Then, we do the best we can with the day that is given to us.

I would agree with this to a point. I'm not particularly worried about Trump qua Trump, but more Trump qua a Republican. As far as I can tell, in the final analysis, the main difference between Trump and most other Republicans is that, on certain issues normally discoursed via a high-piched canine command device, Trump just comes right out and says what he thinks.

One thing that I think DOES bode ill is that(if the reports I've seen hold up), there's gonna be Republican control of the House and Senate as well. This will likely make it more difficult for Democrats to block whatever extremist SCOTUS appointments Trump may be inclined to make in deference to his base.

And yes, the US now has at least six states and one district putting St. Justin to shame when it comes to legalized weed. Though the question now becomes whether the federal government, still hosting anti-pot laws and now back under GOP command, will allow that to continue.

iyraste1313

Well, if Trump really wants to blow out yields, he got a head start two months before he was even sworn in when moments ago the market threw up all over today's $23 billion in 10-Year paper, the first benchmark auction to price above 2% since January, and not only that but do so with one of the biggest "tails" on record, pricing at 2.02%, 1.6bps wide of the When Issued 2.004%. The internals were even more, ahem, deplorable, with the Bid to Cover tumbling from 2.53 in October to 2.22, the lowest since March 2009, as Indirects plunged from 62.7% to only 52.5%, the lowest since January 2015, and with Directs taking down just 8.3%, Dealers were stuck with 39.2% of the auction.

Overall, this was about as ugly an auction as we have seen in years, and if this is indicative of how the market will treat the Trump administration, we may find ourselves in an entirely new regime: one where the bond vigilantes take on not the Fed, but the president. Where have we seen that? Oh yes, in Italy in 2011. That particular episode resulted in the ouster of Berlusconi.

 

.....how are they going to take a hit?.......

Wall Street has no faith in the administration nor generally the global investment community......so the US must raise their interest rates to attract capital...to pay off their 20 trillion debt.......

what this means of course is that everyone in debt...pays more...you!...corporations...governments......

but banks and pension funds etc. will prosper....and of course the real estate market will deteriotae til collapse....

...some may say that people with ideas such as mine are extremists...I submit that there are no solutions except fundamental changes in the structure of the system   Trump can not win the war vs. Wall Street...the chaos to pursue offers us an opportunity!!

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Any of the Republican candidates would have been as scary as Trump and others also could have beat Clinton.  Claiming that Trump is the only misogynist, racist asshole is absurd. He used his showmanship to beat the other Republican candidates not a different message. That message has been preached by the Republicans for many elections and it has resulted in very close elections every time.

It's like his grabbing pussy comment. It offended everyone except the majority of the US population who are quite comfortable living in a rape culture. He merely said what all kinds of dipshit men think is the right of the rich and powerful.  His immigration stance was the same thing. How long has the US right been flogging that Mexican horse to the delight of half of the US citizens. How about Islam, does anyone think he invented Islamophobia or is its most vocal proponent?  

Trump is not an outsider even though that is the bill of goods he sold the public. I am sure he will be just as compliant with the real rulers of Amerika as Clinton would have been. When he appoints his economic Tsars they will all be neo-liberal and his military advisors will be the same old same old. 

josh

Considering that Trump couldn't even win the most votes in the country, claiming that the majority were not offended is unsupportable.

Cody87

Quote:
He merely said what all kinds of dipshit men think is the right of the rich and powerful.

More white women voted for Trump than Clinton, by a 10 point margin in favour of Trump. Are they dipshits too?

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Cody87 wrote:

Quote:

He merely said what all kinds of dipshit men think is the right of the rich and powerful.

More white women voted for Trump than Clinton, by a 10 point margin in favour of Trump. Are they dipshits too?

To me it highlights that rape culture is an accepted part of American society. So much so that his overt misogyny was given a pass by both many women as well as men.

Women are not immune from the right wng message just look at Conservative parties around Canada. But to answer your question yes I do consider REAL women activists as dipshits also.

Sean in Ottawa

Paladin1 wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Paladin1 wrote:

Democracy is great until your party doesn't get voted in, then it's Hitler.

It's ironic too considering Clinton expresssed that the US should have fixed the election in Palastine when Hamas got democratically voted in.

Please do not minimize and normalize what just happened. Not on this site because the people here know that it is not normal.

Clinton would have been a bad president but Trump is a special case. In this place, if not others, the racism and sexism that came out in that campaign won't be dismissed as just the other party winning.

 

No need to try and rally up a posse Sean, I'm certain you can make your own points without support.

When you look at most of the videos of violence committed against party supporters Trump supports have been on the recieving end. Even examples extending all the way up to Calgary. Assaulted for wearing  a hat.

If you'd like I can post a video of a Trump supporter who's incidentally a black homeless woman, getting shoved around harassed and abused by clinton supporters.  

The hatred that this election brought to the surface is hardly one sided.  Clinton is corrupt to the core. Her foundation accepted millions of dollars from countries that habitually minimize abuse and murder women and homosexuals such as Qutar and Saudi Arabia.  As well if you'd like I can post videos of Clinton laughing at murdering a foreign leader? 

Now what the hell is that?

I did make my point on my own. I did not plan on any responses.

But your presumption of some kind of conspiracy without any evidence to back it up places you right among Trump followers.

ETA: My statement that people on this site know that the level of sexism and racism from Trump and his campaign were unusual (even in a society that has major issues with both) is an opinion. You can challenge it if you like but it was not a conspiracy to instigate support.

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

Paladin1 wrote:

The hatred that this election brought to the surface is hardly one sided.  Clinton is corrupt to the core. Her foundation accepted millions of dollars from countries that habitually minimize abuse and murder women and homosexuals such as Qutar and Saudi Arabia.  As well if you'd like I can post videos of Clinton laughing at murdering a foreign leader? 

[emphasis added]

Paladin1

I'm not a Trump follower because I'm Canadian and don't vote in the US.  They're both shitty people. Trump represents a shitty society and Clinton a shitty government.  I think Trump represents change in the US government. I can't say whether it will be for better or for worse but it's change.

Sean in Ottawa

Cody87 wrote:

swallow wrote:

White supremacy exists, Cody. If you deny that, if you deny that America is a structurally racist country against non-white people, you might as well deny the existence of climate change. Or evolution. 

I realize some voters in the USA (and here too) deny all those things, of course. 

White supremacy exists. Obviously. It is not widespread. The fact that David Duke exists does not mean that everything is the fault of white people.

Not every problem is because of white people being racist. And whether the left wants to accept it or not, the Trump movement has real foundations in a backlash against normalized racism against white people. Yeah, yeah, I know, "you can't be racist against white people."

That's exactly the thinking that caused this "problem."

Glad you know that you can't be racist against white people after all it would be tiresome here to have to have that argument again.

And you calling people who disagree with you to be part of the problem is another problem.

We may have different definitions of racism but the desire to maintain a white and male privelege that is being eroded does explain how the angry Trump followers tend to be BOTH under-educated and yet above average in income. Privelege explains how you get an above average income with a lower education when it is seen across a group big enough that it is statistically observable rather than a few individual cases.

We are talking about millions of people averaged together coming back higher income and lower education. Explain how that is not privilege and how identifying as a group, saying they do not want to be politically correct about it does not reflect them trying to maintain that. If you agree with this then I let alone the differences you might see between what is a desire to mainatin privilege and racism/sexism. For the record-- I consider this systemic racism and participating in it in the way the last campaign showed may or may not qualify for your definition of individual racism but the destinction for me is barely worth it.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

The MSM will treat the citizens as if the latter have no memory and they will coddle the newly-elected President as surely as they coddled his predecessor. Wake up, people.

What they will not do is speak truth to power. They represent that power. There's just a new sheriff in town, is all.

Trump's battles will be with his own party establishment now. But he has some of those Reagan qualities that will serve him well in that battle. What started out as a stumbling, bumbling campaign was a well-oiled machine and a very Presidential candidate in the last weeks.

He was ready to win.

The Americans have elected another media star for President. They truly get what they deserve.

 

Sean in Ottawa

This talk of reverse racism and equation of Clinton and the crap Trump and his campaign put on display would be a shameful conversation anywhere. It is rather shocking to have it here.

Pause. Please. Review what Trump himself (never mind his followers) has said that is racist and sexist.

The media in trying to create equivalents between this and Clinton have failed in their responsibility. But I won't defend the mass media in the US.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

The MSM was an active, partisan participant in this election. They openly campaigned for Clinton. They lost. They are now in the process of erasing some of their most egregious remarks - RT is having a field day itemizing this stuff - and, come tomorrow, or the next day, they will provide the same regurgitation of the POTUS policies as they did with the current, now lame duck, Obama regime.

This transition from descriptions of Trump as an odious bigot  to the honoured President will be very instructive. Watch how things disappear, how gentle hints that "things are not really so bad with the new guy", and so on, until, by January, a MSM chorus will blithely tell the masses to "Hail the Chief".

josh

ikosmos wrote:

The MSM was an active, partisan participant in this election. They openly campaigned for Clinton. They lost. They are now in the process of erasing some of their most egregious remarks - RT is having a field day itemizing this stuff - and, come tomorrow, or the next day, they will provide the same regurgitation of the POTUS policies as they did with the current, now lame duck, Obama regime.

This transition from descriptions of Trump as an odious bigot  to the honoured President will be very instructive. Watch how things disappear, how gentle hints that "things are not really so bad with the new guy", and so on, until, by January, a MSM chorus will blithely tell the masses to "Hail the Chief".


And on this thread as well? Thank you for citing the Russian Propaganda Network.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Anyone who voted Trump is a dipshit. Actually,the real dipshits were Bernie supporters who bought Trump as a candidate of change. They are going to be very disappointed.

The rest of Trump's support came by the way of people who knew exactly what he was and loved it because they could identify with his ignorance and intolerant message.

that's my take on this.

josh

alan smithee wrote:

Anyone who voted Trump is a dipshit. Actually,it was dipshits who were Bernie supporters who bought Trump as a candidate of change. They are going to be very disappointed.

The rest of Trump's support came by the way of people who knew exactly what he was and loved it because they could identify with his ignorance and intolerant message.

that's my take on this.


Very few Sanders supporters for him. There were some Sanders voters, who voted for him simply because he wasn't Clinton, who did,

Paladin1

ikosmos wrote:

The MSM was an active, partisan participant in this election. They openly campaigned for Clinton. They lost. They are now in the process of erasing some of their most egregious remarks - RT is having a field day itemizing this stuff - and, come tomorrow, or the next day, they will provide the same regurgitation of the POTUS policies as they did with the current, now lame duck, Obama regime.

This transition from descriptions of Trump as an odious bigot  to the honoured President will be very instructive. Watch how things disappear, how gentle hints that "things are not really so bad with the new guy", and so on, until, by January, a MSM chorus will blithely tell the masses to "Hail the Chief".

 

The media went big on supporting Clinton and they lost Big. Now they're scrambling to do damage control.

 

I wonder if all those celebrities who swore they would move to Canada if Trump won will show show integrity and follow through?

lagatta

Here is what my MNA, Françoise David, has just written about Donald Trump...

 

On ne peut pas changer la politique américaine, mais on peut changer les choses ici, au Québec.
C’est avec une très grande inquiétude que Québec solidaire accueille l’arrivée de Donald Trump comme président désigné des États-Unis. Ses propos racistes, sexistes et haineux donnent froid dans le dos.

Cette élection nous en dit long sur le désespoir qui hante une grande partie du peuple américain. De larges couches de la population sont conscientes que le système travaille contre elles.

La classe moyenne se sent menacée et la droite raciste en profite pour stigmatiser les minorités aux États-Unis.

Chez nous, cette élection doit servir d’avertissement. La classe politique a la responsabilité de répondre aux besoins réels des gens. Quand les Québécoises et les Québécois font face à la corruption, à la  collusion, à des écoles et des hôpitaux en ruine, nous ouvrons une brèche où le cynisme et la droite populiste règnent en maîtres.

Québec solidaire met toutes ses énergies à renverser la vapeur. Serez-vous de la lutte?

Françoise David, députée de Gouin

Sean in Ottawa

ikosmos wrote:

The MSM was an active, partisan participant in this election. They openly campaigned for Clinton. They lost. They are now in the process of erasing some of their most egregious remarks - RT is having a field day itemizing this stuff - and, come tomorrow, or the next day, they will provide the same regurgitation of the POTUS policies as they did with the current, now lame duck, Obama regime.

This transition from descriptions of Trump as an odious bigot  to the honoured President will be very instructive. Watch how things disappear, how gentle hints that "things are not really so bad with the new guy", and so on, until, by January, a MSM chorus will blithely tell the masses to "Hail the Chief".

I think the media saw him as dangerous but they lacked the political capital and reach to be able to harm him. The media is a shell of what it once was.

The media reflects corporate interests. You will see those interests -- media included -- fall in line because they know anything else will cost money.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

alan smithee wrote:
Anyone who voted Trump is a dipshit. Actually,the real dipshits were Bernie supporters who bought Trump as a candidate of change. They are going to be very disappointed.

The rest of Trump's support came by the way of people who knew exactly what he was and loved it because they could identify with his ignorance and intolerant message.

that's my take on this.

 

This is precisely the sort of arrogant political snobbery that got Trump elected in the first place. If the annointed Presidential candidate mocks people's gun-loving, conservative religious and social views, unwashed, rural reality by reference to them as  "deplorables", then don't be surprised if they exact their revenge at the polls.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

ikosmos wrote:

alan smithee wrote:
Anyone who voted Trump is a dipshit. Actually,the real dipshits were Bernie supporters who bought Trump as a candidate of change. They are going to be very disappointed.

The rest of Trump's support came by the way of people who knew exactly what he was and loved it because they could identify with his ignorance and intolerant message.

that's my take on this.

 

This is precisely the sort of arrogant political snobbery that got Trump elected in the first place. If the annointed Presidential candidate mocks people's gun-loving, conservative religious and social views, unwashed, rural reality by reference to them as  "deplorables", then don't be surprised if they exact their revenge at the polls.

Trump supporters deserve to be mocked and ridiculed. it's not snobbery. and if you choose to defend him,please leave babble and go home to breitbart where you'll find a sympathetic ear..

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

alan smithee wrote:
Trump supporters deserve to be mocked and ridiculed. it's not snobbery. and if you choose to defend him, please leave babble and go home to breitbart where you'll find a sympathetic ear..

Just for the record.

Cody87

alan smithee wrote:

Trump supporters deserve to be mocked and ridiculed. it's not snobbery. and if you choose to defend him,please leave babble and go home to breitbart where you'll find a sympathetic ear..

Let's assume you are right. Let's assume every single one is an idiot dipshit like you think. Calling them that is not going to convince them to switch to your side, so they are going to continue to vote against you and the rest of the left until the left stops treating them like dipshits. 

That's the point. It doesn't matter if they're dipshits or not. They are not your enemies, and as long as you treat them like they are, they won't give you the time of day.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Cody87 wrote:

 They are not your enemies, and as long as you treat them like they are, they won't give you the time of day.

I beg to differ. And they are not worthy of my time.

Martin N.

ikosmos wrote:

alan smithee wrote:
Trump supporters deserve to be mocked and ridiculed. it's not snobbery. and if you choose to defend him, please leave babble and go home to breitbart where you'll find a sympathetic ear..

Just for the record.

obnoxious, oppressive snobbery. Only *correct* opinions allowed

Paladin1

alan smithee wrote:

 

Trump supporters deserve to be mocked and ridiculed.

What about assaulted?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Cody87 wrote:

Let's assume you are right. Let's assume every single one is an idiot dipshit like you think. Calling them that is not going to convince them to switch to your side, so they are going to continue to vote against you and the rest of the left until the left stops treating them like dipshits. 

That's the point. It doesn't matter if they're dipshits or not. They are not your enemies, and as long as you treat them like they are, they won't give you the time of day.

Trump supporters make up just over 25% of the US voters. They are not my allies and their world view makes them an enemy of progressive people all over the planet. The idea that you can convince a significant number of right wing assholes to vote for a truly progressive candidate is just a bizarre read on politics.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Paladin1 wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

 

Trump supporters deserve to be mocked and ridiculed.

What about assaulted?

That doesn't happen.  It's your side that's all about the violence.  You have no reason to disrespect women.  You have no reason to hate blacks, Latinos and gays.  You have no reason to treat ALL Muslims as the enemy.  You have no reason to want to drag the country and the world back to the past.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

quote:

This election, in the words of New York Times analyst Nate Cohn, was decided by people who voted for Barack Obama in 2012. Not all of them can be bigots.

Clinton won only 65 percent of Latino voters, compared to Obama’s 71 percent four years ago. She performed this poorly against a candidate who ran on a program of building a wall along America’s southern border, a candidate who kicked off his campaign by calling Mexicans rapists.

Clinton won 34 percent of white women without college degrees. And she won just 54 percent of women overall, compared to Obama’s 55 percent in 2012. Clinton, of course, was running against a candidate who has gloated on film about grabbing women “by the pussy.”

This was Clinton’s election to lose. And she lost. A lot of the blame will fall on Clinton the candidate, but she only embodied the consensus of this generation of Democratic Party leaders. Under President Obama, Democrats have lost almost a thousand state-legislature seats, a dozen gubernatorial races, sixty-nine House seats and thirteen in the Senate. Last night didn’t come out of nowhere.

The problem with Clinton wasn’t her peculiarity but her typicality. It was characteristic of this Democratic Party that the power players in Washington decided on the nominee — with overwhelming endorsements — many months before a single ballot was cast.

They made a fateful choice for all of us by stacking the deck, decisively, against the kind of politics that could win: a working-class politics.

Cody87

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Cody87 wrote:

Let's assume you are right. Let's assume every single one is an idiot dipshit like you think. Calling them that is not going to convince them to switch to your side, so they are going to continue to vote against you and the rest of the left until the left stops treating them like dipshits. 

That's the point. It doesn't matter if they're dipshits or not. They are not your enemies, and as long as you treat them like they are, they won't give you the time of day.

Trump supporters make up just over 25% of the US voters. They are not my allies and their world view makes them an enemy of progressive people all over the planet. The idea that you can convince a significant number of right wing assholes to vote for a truly progressive candidate is just a bizarre read on politics.

You don't know what their worldview is. You don't even know if they're right wing. This time last year the biggest issue in the election was the TPP. To anyone who is primarily concerned with TPP would vote for Trump. Anyone who is primarily concerned about war with Russia would vote for Trump. Anyone who is concerned with U.S. interventionism to continue feeding the military industrial complex would vote for Trump. These are all very serious issues on which he is credibly to the "left" of what could be reasonably expected from Clinton.

Since when does opposing global nuclear war, unnecessary military interventions, and corporate trade agreements make someone a right wing asshole?

Cody87

Ken Burch wrote:

Paladin1 wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

 

Trump supporters deserve to be mocked and ridiculed.

What about assaulted?

That doesn't happen.

Wrong.

Quote:
It's your side that's all about the violence.  You have no reason to disrespect women. You have no reason to hate blacks, Latinos and gays.  You have no reason to treat ALL Muslims as the enemy.  You have no reason to want to drag the country and the world back to the past.

So because someone opposes a no fly zone in Syria, the TPP, secretive governments that are above the law, and military interventions, therefore, they hate blacks, Latinos, gays, women, and muslims?

This is not even getting into the hypocrisy between #YesAllTrumpSupporters and #YesAllMen vs. #NotAllMuslims.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

At the danger of being banned,I'm going to leave a comment and move on.

To you fuckwad Trump supporters. Get the fuck out of here.This is not the place for you. You're baiting and to me,that's worth repremanding.

Fuck off!

Paladin1

Ken Burch wrote:

 

That doesn't happen.  It's your side that's all about the violence.

Please Ken, you know better than that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilIX_cz3HIQ   Hillary supporters assault homeless woman at Trump's Walk of Fame star

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMux_UHmpvc   random acts of violence against Trump supporters.

The violence isn't one sided but if you want to play tit for tat I can find triple the number of videos where Trump supporters are being assaulted.

 

 

Quote:
You have no reason to disrespect women.  You have no reason to hate blacks, Latinos and gays.  You have no reason to treat ALL Muslims as the enemy.  You have no reason to want to drag the country and the world back to the past.

Lets for a second say that not only racist white males voted for Trump.

Just maybe, Americans felt that their government was corrupt to the point where they demanded change.  Their country was born from a war where they overthrew an oppresive government that failed to listen to their concerns.  They set their government up with a bunch of checks and balances. President, senate, house, supreme court. That way one person doesn't have total control.

They had two options. A career politician with a dark shadow of corruption and 'i dont give a fuck about rules' hanging over their head and a fairly successful businessman. Both were liars through and through but the latter didn't do so while representing American interests.

 

The whole anyone who voted for Trump is a nazi mantra is to be expected but no less unimpressive.

Cody87

I'm not a "Trump supporter". I'm a "Trump supporter" supporter. I don't particularly care for the man, but the vast majority of the people who support him are good people - the same as the vast majority of Muslims (as just one example) are good people.

And I'm not going to flag your comment because I don't believe in censoring people I disagree with. That is no way to find common ground.

Pondering

epaulo13 wrote:

quote:

This election, in the words of New York Times analyst Nate Cohn, was decided by people who voted for Barack Obama in 2012. Not all of them can be bigots.

Clinton won only 65 percent of Latino voters, compared to Obama’s 71 percent four years ago. She performed this poorly against a candidate who ran on a program of building a wall along America’s southern border, a candidate who kicked off his campaign by calling Mexicans rapists.

Clinton won 34 percent of white women without college degrees. And she won just 54 percent of women overall, compared to Obama’s 55 percent in 2012. Clinton, of course, was running against a candidate who has gloated on film about grabbing women “by the pussy.”

This was Clinton’s election to lose. And she lost. A lot of the blame will fall on Clinton the candidate, but she only embodied the consensus of this generation of Democratic Party leaders. Under President Obama, Democrats have lost almost a thousand state-legislature seats, a dozen gubernatorial races, sixty-nine House seats and thirteen in the Senate. Last night didn’t come out of nowhere.

The problem with Clinton wasn’t her peculiarity but her typicality. It was characteristic of this Democratic Party that the power players in Washington decided on the nominee — with overwhelming endorsements — many months before a single ballot was cast.

They made a fateful choice for all of us by stacking the deck, decisively, against the kind of politics that could win: a working-class politics.

Excellent article. It must have been difficult to choose what to quote.

Pondering

alan smithee wrote:

At the danger of being banned,I'm going to leave a comment and move on.

To you fuckwad Trump supporters. Get the fuck out of here.This is not the place for you. You're baiting and to me,that's worth repremanding.

Fuck off!

No one here is a Trump supporter. What some people are saying is that Trump supporters are not all Trump clones and demonizing them just drives them into the arms of the right.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I didn't say that EVERYONE who voted for Trump was a Nazi(though we can safely say that every Nazi voted for Trump).  Not everyone who voted for Hitler was a Nazi.  Some were just "tough on crime".  Some were just concerned about "too much immigration".  Some just hated gays and Roma.

But every one who voted for Trump is responsible for putting a white supremacist(and a terrible businessman, if we measure it by the traditional standard of how good that person was at actually building a business, rather than how good that person was at lining his own pockets by any means necessary) into the highest office in the U.S., with every branch of government robotically controlled by his own party.

There will be no checks and balances in the U.S. until at least 2018.  Everything positive could be wiped out permanently in that time.

josh

epaulo13 wrote:

quote:

This election, in the words of New York Times analyst Nate Cohn, was decided by people who voted for Barack Obama in 2012. Not all of them can be bigots.

Clinton won only 65 percent of Latino voters, compared to Obama’s 71 percent four years ago. She performed this poorly against a candidate who ran on a program of building a wall along America’s southern border, a candidate who kicked off his campaign by calling Mexicans rapists.

Clinton won 34 percent of white women without college degrees. And she won just 54 percent of women overall, compared to Obama’s 55 percent in 2012. Clinton, of course, was running against a candidate who has gloated on film about grabbing women “by the pussy.”

This was Clinton’s election to lose. And she lost. A lot of the blame will fall on Clinton the candidate, but she only embodied the consensus of this generation of Democratic Party leaders. Under President Obama, Democrats have lost almost a thousand state-legislature seats, a dozen gubernatorial races, sixty-nine House seats and thirteen in the Senate. Last night didn’t come out of nowhere.

The problem with Clinton wasn’t her peculiarity but her typicality. It was characteristic of this Democratic Party that the power players in Washington decided on the nominee — with overwhelming endorsements — many months before a single ballot was cast.

They made a fateful choice for all of us by stacking the deck, decisively, against the kind of politics that could win: a working-class politics.

Just a word of caution. Don't trust the exit polls when it comes to demographic voting. Particularly with Latinos. In almost every election when the voted is analyzed in detail the Democrats Latino number goes up.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Pondering wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

At the danger of being banned,I'm going to leave a comment and move on.

To you fuckwad Trump supporters. Get the fuck out of here.This is not the place for you. You're baiting and to me,that's worth repremanding.

Fuck off!

No one here is a Trump supporter. What some people are saying is that Trump supporters are not all Trump clones and demonizing them just drives them into the arms of the right.

Isn't that where they are already?  Trump won by holding onto the Republican base. The Republican base is the problem and trying to say everyone is a nice person is ludicrous in a political discussion. Its not about the individuals it is about the fact that they voted for a Republican just like they have in every election in this millennium. Does anyone really believe that Bush the Lesser was in charge? Does anyone really thinbk Trump will want to do much except emulate Trudeau's never ending photo-op routine. 

Don't worry when the dust settles and he names his cabinet and we see who has the real reigns of power it will be clear the oligarchy's agenda will still be front and centre on the table.

josh

Look, there were tens of thousands of whites in the Midwest who had voted for Obama twice, who voted for Trump. So for them it can't be race. Rather Trump's economic message of bringing back jobs and attacking trade deals appealed to them.

NorthReport

Bingo!

And precisely why John Horgan will get crushed next May. The NDP just doesn't get it.

josh wrote:
Look, there were tens of thousands of whites in the Midwest who had voted for Obama twice, who voted for Trump. So for them it can't be race. Rather Trump's economic message of bringing back jobs and attacking trade deals appealed to them.

Paladin1

Sorry Ken I didn't mean to imply YOU called every Trump voter a Nazi. That was me generalizing what I'm seeing across SM.  

It seems like an uncomfortable truth that it's not just white males voting for trump but POC's and other genders.

The checks and balances will be the powers of veto and all that stuff built into the senate house presidency.  Like Obama just got smacked with.

I'd have to do a lot more reading to guage how effective Trump is as a business man but I know the Clinton Foundation's business includes dealing a lot of death. There's a reason why military contractors and companies voted Clinton.  Trump knows war is bad business WHEN you don't have stocks in weapons and supplies of war which he doesn't. That's the Clinton Foundation.

Aristotleded24

kropotkin1951 wrote:
The idea that you can convince a significant number of right wing assholes to vote for a truly progressive candidate is just a bizarre read on politics.

Would this by why gun-toting, traditional-marriage loving, big-government-hating Republicans who had Bush-Cheney signs on their lawns who live in northeastern Vermont are actually a key component of Sanders fan base in that state?

Sean in Ottawa

Ken Burch wrote:

I didn't say that EVERYONE who voted for Trump was a Nazi(though we can safely say that every Nazi voted for Trump).  Not everyone who voted for Hitler was a Nazi.  Some were just "tough on crime".  Some were just concerned about "too much immigration".  Some just hated gays and Roma.

But every one who voted for Trump is responsible for putting a white supremacist(and a terrible businessman, if we measure it by the traditional standard of how good that person was at actually building a business, rather than how good that person was at lining his own pockets by any means necessary) into the highest office in the U.S., with every branch of government robotically controlled by his own party.

There will be no checks and balances in the U.S. until at least 2018.  Everything positive could be wiped out permanently in that time.

Some votes for TRump were surely motivated directly by racism and sexism. But you also have to consider that it was racism and sexism that also failed to prevent some votes from going to Trump. By this I mean it may not have been the primary purpose but you need a certain amount of racism and sexism to not consdier Trump ineligble.

As well there is the protection of privilege that I call racism and sexism that others woudl say is not -- they may say that they want to keep their advatnage -- no offence -- I don't hate you but I like my advantage. Frankly that's still racist and sexist in my view.

 

Subtract all of that and you woudl not have Trump as President-- he would not even have been a nominee.

bekayne

Paladin1 wrote:

Trump knows war is bad business WHEN you don't have stocks in weapons and supplies of war which he doesn't. 

He wants to increase military spending. Especially on nuclear weapons.

Sean in Ottawa

NorthReport wrote:

Bingo!

And precisely why John Horgan will get crushed next May. The NDP just doesn't get it.

josh wrote:
Look, there were tens of thousands of whites in the Midwest who had voted for Obama twice, who voted for Trump. So for them it can't be race. Rather Trump's economic message of bringing back jobs and attacking trade deals appealed to them.

So do we know this? Or were they simply mostly different people -- some voting one time and others another?

Also just becuase you get swayed one time does not mean racism was not involved.

Motivations cannot be directly compared across more than one election. A person who may hear and respond to a racist message one time is not always guaranteed to do so or not another.

And on tis I distinguish between racism of the hate variety (which is certainly there) and of the privilege protection kind. They look different. The first probably knows he is racist while the second would be offended to be called racist and not see themselves as such. They will say "these people" and couch the terms as much as possible to be indirect, even if the meaning is clear to most others, they will try not to see it themselves. They don't want to appear racist but they want to enjoy the spoils of racism.

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