Asian Human Rights Commission report regarding treatment by Sinhalese forces of dead Tamil combatants.

I doubt the video link is required. I'm certainly not interested in seeing it.

Sorry, I should have used viewer's discretion on the post to the video.
I know it is hard to stomach but this is the reality of the Tamil people in the island of Ceylon, dead or alive, they are in a circle of endless suffering. The same can be said about the Palestinian people and many other nations of people who are suppressed by so called democratic states that are funded and supplied by the western governments with or without their knowledge (most of the time it is with their knowledge) to carry out uncivilized agendas.

The article is refering to the mistreatment of dead bodies (especially dead women) in the batttlefield by enemy combatants.

I was thinking of the thread title. But that makes things clearer, thanks. 

"Sinhala authorities" just seems to be saying that the Sinhala are the "bad guys," when I was thinking the problem lay in the Sri Lankan military and there were Sinhala dissidents -- just as there are dissidents within the Tamil community who call the LTTE a terrorist group and seek a Tamil state and human rights, through non-violent means. 

-

Last year I attended an exhibit of photos and other visuals at Roy Thomson Hall put on by a group of Tamils that was highly critical of two groups of killers (1) the Sri Lanka army and (2) the LTTE. They were saying that actually the LTTE kills more Tamils than the government, which is questionable but makes a point about trying to strive for a two-nation, non-violent peace movement. 

They thought such a thing was possible, and indeed necessary. But then of course they were in Canada, where Tamils face racism but usually not being killed simply for being Tamil. I wonder what you think, thirusuj. 

.

I will keep it in one thread, wish someone would have said it ealier.

I wish the men and women who ordered and consucted war were always the first victims of war and then, perhaps, they would also be the only victims. Unfortunately, human societies still glorify war no matter that war is the ascent of evil over rationality. Yes, humans glorify evil.

Thirusuj: Thanks for all the articles, that last one was quite bizare (racist comments aside); this part particularly:

Yeah, police intimidation! What great news! Seriously WTF?!? Why would any Canadian celebrate that our police have been "emboldened" to harass and intimidate a minority group in our society?

What's more bizarre is this from part 5:

"They are in a panic over what to do," Mr. Benedict said, estimating that "99.9 per cent" of Toronto's Tamils support the Tigers' goals, if not always their methods.

So Mr. Benedict admits that pretty much the Tigers have 99.9% support from the Canadian Tamils and he represents the remaining 0.1%. Yet the Canadian government, the media all give importance to this 0.1% and totally ignoring the 99.9%. Democracy is a joke and I can tell you as a Tamil we learned it the hard way.

Easy to say but you've ignored the reality that often (as is the case for Sri Lanka's Tamils) doing nothing as you suggest still means dying at the hands of a brutal regime bent on their elimination; and by doing nothing they gaurantee the same fate for their children and the rest of their people. Your suggestion would make things easier for murderers and oppressors the world over however, if not for their victims. "Peace in the world" through ethnic cleansing and genocide is not the vision of world peace we dream of; I'm not sure about you though.

Tamil refugees shelled as army closes in

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5627586.ece

"Also, if the Tamil Tigers never existed there would be no reason for there to be any conflict, life would just go on and there would be a few petty laws discriminating against the Tamils."

Tamil Tigers came into existence because the Sinhalese armed forces, police and thugs were going around, killing, raping and looting the Tamils. Laws discriminating the Tamils were passed 25 years before the Tigers were born. Please learn the histroy.

Excuse me, Rajiv Gandhi murder is blamed on the LTTE, the investigation is still on and the verdict has not been delivered. Immature on your part to accuse the Tamils or the LTTE on this issue. Jain commission report accuses the congress party and many others for this including LTTE. You need to know that when that killing happened none of the Congress party members were at that rally including his alliance partners. Again read the history. Misinformed people and people who jump into conclusion are one source of the problem.

Thanks thirusuj with posts about facts on the ground.  Just try to ignore Stockholm's "expertise" on every issue in the world, especially ethnic ones.

Then show us the other side with some links.  Don't just make unfounded assumptions about martyrs.

BTW: I'm surprised that no one has lodged a complaint about the racist title of this string implying that Sinhalese Buddhist culture believes in necrophilia. If someone posted a thread saying that about Muslims - they would be summarily banned from babble for the rest of their live.

"Simple reason; one life being scarified to achieve the target rather then 100 lives marching and dyeing to take the same target."

If you think being a suicide bomber is such a great idea - have you considered blowing yourself up in order to advance the cause of Tamil independence - or do you only think suicide bombing is a good as long as other people are killing themselves?

Oh I see, so you have to be vetted before you are "lucky" enough to be accepted for the "honor" (sic.) of killing yourself at a young age and taking as many other people down with you as you can. There are words for this - PATHOLOGICAL AND EVIL.

This has got to be a first for babble - someone calling another ethnic group "sub-human" and glorifying suicide/homocide bombings.

Gee do you also have a soft spot in your heart for Japanese kamikaze pilots during WW2? Or maybe you think the 19 suicidal killers on Sept. 11 are great martyrs to some cause. Maybe you also think that people who want Quebec to be an independent country should start strapping on dynamite and blowing themselves up on Parliament Hill - all to martyrs to the Quebecois nation. where will this all end?

I was actually neutral in terms of taking sides between the Sinhala and the Tamils in Sri Lanka - but after reading some of pathological crap justifying suicide bombings and calling Sinhala Buddhists "sub-human necrophiliacs" I'm becoming increasingly sympathetic to the Sinhala side of the conflict. If this is an example of the mentality they are up against.

"Maybe you need to read on Japanese culture on Honor and the life of samurais to understand the kamikaze".

I've read about it. I think its revolting and inhumane.I prefer peace and non-violence and not thse sadistic "warrior cultures".

I wonder where we would be if the PM of Britain, The President of USA, Joseph Stalin of USSR tired the non-violence method with Hitler of Germany?

Yeah I can think of no better comparison than the USA and the Sri Lankan Tamils, their situations are practically identical when you think about it.

If you read his post thirusuj was trying to compare responses to non-violence by genocidal regimes, Hitler's Germany and Raja's Sri Lanka; there are differences in scale but both regimes are bent on genocide against a minority group and have no tolerance for non-violent disent and used violence to crush it. That comparison is not unreasonable however his attempts to argue this with you are, because you know you do not believe in non-violence anyway, you just don't think the oppressed should fight back.

I'm not going to respond to your whole post, hopefully thirusuj will as I don't have the personal experience to draw from, I will respond to this however,

This is true. Funny how everyone DOESN'T have their own self-determined country as well though... 

Stockholm,

Please do list the discrimination that they claim during the British rule and disproportionate powers by the British .

The British never favored the Tamils; it was the setting up of the American Mission in Jaffna and its success that gave the Tamils access to English education. The Tamils who excelled in education not only had they taken up the jobs in British Ceylon, but also widely in the British Empire. Many Elam Tamils went on to Malaysia, Singapore, India, Fiji, Guyana, Trinidad, Mauritius, Africa etc. as the British required people with good understanding of English to administer the empire. Sadly this educational advance of the Tamil people is being repeatedly used to justify the discrimination that they face after independence from British.

Extract from: http://www.tamilnation.org/books/Eelam/sanmugathasan.htm

It is just as well, at this point to study the communal problem as it arose at that time.

One of the main reasons why the Tamils occupied a better place in the government service and the professions under British rule than the Sinhalese did was due to the head start they had in the sphere of learning English although this was by accident and not design.

The American Ceylon Mission was started in the Jaffna peninsula by the American Methodist Missionaries in 1816. In her very recent book, "Communal politics under the Donoughmore Constitution" Jane Russell gives a good account of the services rendered by these missionaries to education in Jaffna.

According to her, the reason why the Mission chose Jaffna as the focus of its activities was because "the colonial government was anxious to avoid a clash with the English Missions and partly because its strategic position was the key to India which was the Mission's main target".
By 1822, 42 schools staffed by Americans who were fluent in Tamil, had been established in the peninsula. In 1823, was set up the Batticotta (not to be confused with Batticaloa) Seminary at Vaddukoddai. This was the first English school in Asia. It was a free boarding school whose standard has been compared to that of a University, It taught English, Tamil prose, Mathematics, Greek, Latin History, Geography and. Philosophy.

In 1833, a professor of Medicine arrived and thereafter the Seminary turned out medical students and potential doctors. The methods of the American Ceylon Mission was reported to be infinitely more advanced and the missionaries more dedicated than those in the English Mission Schools in the rest of Ceylon.

Having learnt Tamil thoroughly, the Americans translated English text books into Tamil and compiled comprehensive English-Tamil dictionaries. As Colebrooke pointed out in 1830, the level of English education imparted in Jaffna was much higher than elsewhere in Ceylon as a result of the Americans asserting the importance of teaching English (unlike other missions).

Due to a financial crisis, the colonial government cut down expenditure on education by half during the end of 1847. This did not affect the American Ceylon Mission. The effect was that the governments schools in the South-West were outclassed completely. In 1929 there existed in the Jaffna peninsula 65 English schools, 10 of them being first/class Collegiate Schools, and 426 Vernacular schools. In that year, the Northern province had 6 out of 7 children attending some form schools.

As K. Balasingam said in a speech in 1913, we have cultivated the only thing that could have been cultivated with profit despite the aridity of our soil. We 'have attempted to cultivate men'.

The Americans were followed by Catholic and Protestant Missionaries who all proceeded to set up schools as part of their aim of proselytising. When Hindu revivalism started, there was formed the Hindu Board of Education which, in turn, opened up its schools. Thus, Jaffna became blessed with many schools. It was said that, at one stage, Jaffna had more schools per square mile than anywhere else in the world.

This gave a great impetus to the study of the English, a language which was the language of administration of the British Colonialists. Naturally, the Tamils obtained more posts in the governments service and the professions, like law and medicine, out of proportion to their numbers. But, they were obtained in open competition and not through the back door. According to Jane Russel, the Ceylon Tamils constituted over 40 percent of the franchise for the Educated Members seat in 1918.

A particular reason as to, why the Tamil felt the urgent need for better and higher education, particularly in English, was his consciousness that he lived in the most barren and uneconomic part of Sri Lanka which did not boast of a river, a mountain or forest. Education was the only passport to a better life. So he studied hard.
It was a slightly different picture with the Sinhalese in the South. They were blessed with a more fertile land where literally anything grew. Sustenance was easy. But, the educational facilities available to them were less than those available to the Tamils. Besides, till the economic crisis of 1929-1931, the Sinhala middle classes were not that keen to join government service or the professions as their lands could sustain them. It was in the years just before and just after the Second World War that the competition for jobs between the Sinhala and Tamil middle classes grew.

According to the Soulbury Commission report, in the year 1938, out of 6002 pensionable officers, 3236 were Sinhalese and 1164 were Ceylon Tamils. Much of the friction between the two communities arose over the disputes about the social proportions in certain departments in the public service. The communal problem, therefore, is at bottom a competition between the respective middle classes for entry into government service and the professions and for trade opportunities.

According to Jane Russel, the "golden age" of the Ceylon Tamils can be approximately ascribed to the 50 years between 1870 and 1920. In this period. the excellence of the English school system in the Jaffna peninsula enabled large numbers of the Jaffnese to find lucrative employment in the civil and clerical services of Malaya, India and Ceylon. Economically wealthy, the Jaffna Tamils had become politically powerful. The Coomaraswamy - Ponnambalam dynasty had been able to dominate the other communal representatives in the Legislative Council in the 19th century, and had therefore become the acknowledged leaders of the English - educated elite of both communities.

“ ["I prefer peace and non-violence and not thse sadistic "warrior cultures"." You should have been born as a Tamil in Sri Lanka or Palestinian in Gaza and other occupied territories to understand the non-existence respect for non-violence.

Your novel idea of non-violence is great for fiction stories but not for reality. Especially when a community tried so hard with non-violence/ peaceful methods only to end up getting slaughtered mercilessly.]”

I don't think it helps to dismiss a belief in passive or peaceful resistance.  There are plenty of Palestinians working in peaceful means to resist and/or build a civil society.  Plenty more who don't support the terrorist tactics of militant groups and oppressive means of control.  The issue isn't whether one is a suicide bomber or not as there have always been suicide missions in wars.  The issue is the target of the suicide.  Terrorism is not a legitimate tactic for resistance or revolution. If state sponsored terrorism is wrong then revolutionary sponsored terrorism is as well.  Both should always be condemned.  Targeting civilians is not acceptable regardless of whether you believe financial centres and other non military 'symbols of power' are legitimate targets.  Recruiting child soldiers is not acceptable which the LTTE has admitted to and break away Tamil militia groups have as well.  UNICEF documents has documented this. 

Sri Lankan soldiers have demonstrated vile behaviour in the past in other conflicts and the incident referred to in this thread is abhorrent and still a war crime regardless.  I don't think you can spread that behaviour throughout the Sinhalese population though.  To that end I also found the title of the thread unnecessary when other options for titling are always available.   

http://tinyurl.com/cas936

It's obvious from a reading of history that the island was never inhabited by one culture or nation.  The British recognised this immediately.  Regardless that doesn't remove the difficulty of the present situation.  In a historical context this can't be termed a civil war unless you legitimize British colonialism.  It is obvious though that the Sri Lankan government has planned and practiced assimilation by eliminating the relevance of Tamil culture and language.  Just as the British and later Canadian governments did here with both First Nations and Quebec.  The same is also true for black history in the U.S.   In all three of these examples the mechanism was there in the government system of democracy to allow for gradual, passive change through civil society and political action.  Although Quebec seems to have found the answer through the Canadian federation model but it still took over a century to achieve. First Nations are still struggling against assimulation.  Sri Lanka though doesn't have the same system of democracy and the same is true for many former European colonies. This is an interesting article discussing the concept of ethnic democracy vs. a purely political model of democracy.  Its relevant to the discussion.   

http://tinyurl.com/bgd55z
Dr J Powers (1996),
Proceedings of the International Conference on the Conflict in Sri Lanka:

The LTTE surrendered the independent state option for one of autonomy or federation model I believe during the peace process which promised to come close to workable solution.  There's dispute over whether it was the Sri Lankan government which walked out unilaterally or whether both parties walked away from the solution.  Ultimately only the Tamils and the Sri Lankan government can find the solution but I think it is important which point of reference is used in the process.  If pre-colonial history is used then it seems pretty clear that the Tamils should have an independent state. (Although I've read that there is also tension between northern Tamils and eastern Tamils so are we talking about one independent nation or are we eventually going to see a split between the Tamils as well.) If post colonial history is used, (old kingdom/national borders eliminated), as a reference then it seems obvious that some form of autonomous power sharing must take place and/or the Sri Lankan government must surrender it's campaign of ethnic dominance and assimilation and create a single equal society.  I think this is what scares the crap out of countries like Canada and others. To accept pre-colonial borders as a legitimate reference then we open up ethnic and civil conflict throughout the world more than what we have now.  I'm not saying this is right or wrong it just presents a conflict.  Canada should recognise the struggle and injustice on both sides of a conflict and use diplomacy to offer help but it can't do much more than this.        

"Stockholm you're actually interested in the well being of the Sri Lankan Tamils."

I care just as much about the well-being of Sri Lankan Tamils as I do about Sri Lankan Sinhala - I also care about the thousands of Sri Lankan Tamils that have been murdered by the Tamil Tigers because they were too moderate and didn't want to let their children be suicide bombers.

Just because the Tamils are suddenly the new "flavour of the month" on babble doesn't mean that I have to go along with this simplistic Tamil = Good, Sinhala = Bad dichotomy that some want to reduce everything to.

Thank you for bringing these articles into rabble mimeguy. Peaceful methods are tried in Sri Lanka only to meet with violence. However Tamils all around the world are lobbying and trying to bring this conflict to the attention of the world in a very peaceful manner.

The title is defiantly causing some stir, I wonder if the Title could be reedited.

One of the reasons the Tamil people's struggle is not recognized is because of India (particularly because of the state of Tamil Nadu with the population of 70 million Tamils).

India with its population and economy has a huge influence regarding this issue around the world. It is in the geo-political interest of India to crush any movement that thrives to create Independent Tamil Eelam. But in doing so they have to crush the Tamils and that is another potentially dangerous situation as the 70 million Tamils will not accept the subjection of the Tamil people on the island.

Why does India wants to crush it? India does not want its Tamil Nadu state becoming rebellious and demanding for secession as it did in the 1960's. Tamil Nadu is one of the economically powerful states of India and also a rebellious and very defensive about the Tamil culture and its history which has always been a collision course with the central government that wants to extend the influence of Hindi domination. When India tried to implement Hindi as the official language of India in the 1960's Indian government meet with a huge threat from the Tamil Nadu state, west Bengal and many other states and Tamil Nadu of course was driven by Tamil Nationalism and threatened to free itself from India if Hindi is forced upon them. India had wise leadership and allowed all of it states to choose the language, making English as the link language and officially recognizing many of the languages within India's border. It was also due to the China-India war that Tamil Nadu felt that they must stand together with India and defends what they have fought hard with the British and scarified so much. DMK the ruling party of that time in the state of Tamil Nadu later dropped its separatism campaign and launched for greater autonomy. At the moment, with the Tamils being killed in the island India is back to the square one of dealing with Tamil nationalism. This time, the Tamil nationalism is stronger and getting stronger as Indian government is financing, supplying and training the Sri Lankan armed forces along with Pakistan, China, US etc...The Tamil people of Tamil Nadu are starting to ask, "if you are not going to protect our interest and not get a dignified solution to Tamil people in the Island they why are we even part of India?".

http://www.tamilnet.com/art.html?catid=13&artid=28308

Recently India has woken up again to the new wave of Tamil Nationalism, with Tamils getting fired up as their brother and sisters are being slaughtered by the Sri Lankan government.

I would say the protest and peoples emotions are running extremely high in the state of Tamil Nadu. As Sri Lankan Brodcasting Corparation Chariman Hudson Samaraesinghe (I might not his last name right) "In the event of Tamil Nadu becoming independent, there is no doubt that she will invade Sri Lanka over the Tamil issue". Sorry as I couldn't find his exact quote at the moment. If that happens, the tables would turn as the 80 million Tamils around the world will only want to crush the Sinhalese and pay back with interest.

http://www.tamilnet.com/art.html?catid=79&artid=28208

And they'd be the imperialists to whom I was referring, the one's who combined the Tamil and Sinhala kingdoms of Sri Lanka which remain combined in the modern state of Sri Lanka against the will of the Tamils. I don't know how you missed this or what your latest rant has to do with it.

There are also a number of outright lies in your rant such as:

And finally this little pearl of wisdom: 

Is there a justification for every act? Thats what you're really saying and you wouldn't rationalize away crimes committed against yourself, you're just happy to do it to others.

"Both sides deserve our contempt. "

If the Tamil Tigers earned the terrorist title then the Sri Lankan government earned it 30+ years before the Tamil Tigers were born. Yet the one who was and still practicing terrorism for a long time is not on the list and still gets money from the Canadian government in the form of aid for development.

Child Soldiers? I have friends who just walked into the LTTE camps at their tender age of 11, 12, 13, 14 and so on only to get a hard slap and told to go home. Another friend who went and lied his age only to be caught later on. I remember seeing a girl in her teenage year crying her eyes out on the street because her family who left her home so that she can write her exam and they had to travel the Jaffna lagoon where they were attacked by the Sri Lankan Navy and sunk to the bottom of the lagoon. She went to the LTTE camp near our house to join, but they contacted her relative and told them to come pick her up. The government has created so many orphans who have no choice but the LTTE, what have you done to stop the government from creating these orphans? Continuing to support a terrorist state and questioning an oppressed people their right to self-determination surely shows your moral standing to brag about Child Soldiers.

Here is the Child soldiers the government does not want you to know about:

http://www.tamilnet.com/art.html?catid=13&artid=27856
http://www.tamilnet.com/art.html?catid=13&artid=27758

These things don't come to public or to the Human Rights group as Sri Lanka does not allow monitoring of its armed forces, nor do they allow the Human Rights to examine bodies handed over to the ICRC by the Tigers to be examined and publicly identified.

"cases beating up Tamils who don't feel like "donating""

Cases where no individual was charged or arrested but using this as one of the reason to ban LTTE due to the pressure of the Sri Lankan government during the ceasefire time.

Stockholm,

Now we are back to the blame game, where one accuses the other and forgets the root cause that stated this mess as well as the desperate situation of the Tamil people at the current moment.

You are one person who wants the oppressed to stay oppressed and die as an oppressed and not fight back and accept the reality that is forced uo on them. Is there something wrong with you or there is there something wrong with the rest of us.

"That said you've also managed to write a lot without saying much of anything...“mimeguy wrote:Targeting civilians is not acceptable regardless of whether you believe financial centres and other non military 'symbols of power' are legitimate targets. Sure, and the vast majority of the "targetting civilians" which takes place in Sri Lanka, like in Gaza, is the oppressive occupying regime targeting the minority population's civilians (Tamils); as one would expect there is a little blow-back in return and a few Sinhala civilians are also killed and injured... its a sad situation to be sure, and one which would be easily remedied by the Sri Lankan regime ending its campaign against the Tamils. This isn't a two-way conflict. It is like the analogy someone used in one of the Gaza threads, more like an adult strangling an infant, the infant will still struggle and kick but they cannot win the fight and all they want is for the assault to stop... an assault you've recognized in your post and described well:

”This is where I respectfully disagree with you D.  The analogy given here is completely false.  Fatah and Hamas are not ‘infants’ and neither are the LTTE.  They are disciplined armed forces/militias whichever term you want to use.  In recognizing this, the intentional targeting of civilians, (I’m not sure why you put it into quotes as it is a well documented tactic), is a deliberate undertaking and not the ‘flailings’ of an infant fighting back.  There is no excuse for a well disciplined resistance movement to indulge terrorist tactics.  Military targets are legitimate as are symbols of power such as financial centres but these, when worked by, stationed by, civilians requires them to be targeted when civilian employees are not present.  

“…as one would expect there is a little blow-back in return and a few Sinhala civilians are also killed and injured…”

This is very disingenuous.  Civilians killed in crossfire during a clash between military and or police is unfortunate yes.  Civilians killed as the result of a targeted terrorist action is a war crime.  Full stop.  Abducting children, recruiting children as child soldiers is a war crime. Full stop.  Both the LTTE and its breakaway factions have admitted to this.  They cannot be excused from these actions because they are the ‘underdog’ in the war.   

“…the only solution comes from the Sri Lankan regime halting its campaign against the Tamils and recognizing their right to self-determination, however they choose to go about it; that recognition could end the violence.”

We may disagree on what is acceptable in terms of resistance but we are in complete agreement on this.  However it works both ways in conflict.  The LTTE and resistance movements like it can gain not only sympathy but diplomatic backing if they in turn agree to end terrorist tactics and use of child soldiers.  Doing this will hasten the support they want and need.  The solution is to negotiate either constitutional protection of minorities and their culture including Muslims living there.  Barring that an autonomous relationship or independence. 

“I agree that it scares Western elites although I disagree with the reason you've given. It scares them out of concern for their power over exploited peoples' worldwide, not out of concern for those peoples and the violence they'd have to endure. In fact violence would be reduced by such a precedent, as most liberation movements are struggling against states and borders imposed in the past by colonialism. "Canada" is scared of the Sri Lankan Tamils, just like we are scared of all the "terrorist" ethnicities out there, because they threaten the sense of superiority held by our elites (hopefully not the average Canadian), that they can dictate the terms of reference under which all the world's people must live (and Sri Lanka's Tamils are essentially fighting to escape these Western applied terms of reference).”

I think it goes deeper than that and does include the average Canadian.  Going back two and three hundred years to establish borders in conflict does resonate with Canadians.  We’re not prepared to do this in Canada no matter how sympathetic we are to First Nations suffering. We’re also not prepared to do this even recognizing the legal claim.  Instead we need to find another solution incorporating equal rights, cultural recognition and compensation for lost land.  To endorse in other parts of the world the legitimacy of pre-colonial borders does invite further conflicts, not reduce them.  Colonialism remains a very insidious part of history but there are nations which have come to grips with the results and established new borders or have found ways of incorporating under a common government.        

 “After some interesting thinking in your post its a pity this is the conclusion you've come to... Canada must condemn the Sri Lankan regime and cut off all support for this regime until they agree to return to the table and achieve a diplomatic agreement with the Tamils. We have no place is setting the solution (that’s for the participants), but right now we are a big part of the problem, interfering to assist the Sinhala regime. If the regime won't listen we use all our usual embargos etc... The point is to at least stop being a part of the problem.” 

I agree with your assessment that Canada needs to condemn the actions of Sri Lanka.  Cutting off all support is something we’re not quite in agreement with.  Targeted areas need to be severed but not ‘all’ support.  Military support, certain programs of exchange that can add pressure yes.  Development programs servicing both Tamil and Sri Lankan communities doesn’t help pressure the government and only hurts the targeted groups of these programs.  I don’t think the LTTE would want this or the Tamil Diaspora. In terms of negotiations it is common for warring parties to invite or accept third party negotiators.  Canada has played this role in other conflicts and Norway has played this role in Sri Lanka.  So it is relevant for Canada to offer diplomatic assistance to conflict zones where it is not a party to the violence.  If your definition of interference and support of the regime includes our ‘fake’ war on terror then I would agree.  If your definition of condemning Sri Lanka but endorsing the tactics to the LTTE then we are in disagreement again.  It’s a pity that you think the world is so simplistic as to deal with only the concept of ‘good’ guy ‘bad’ guy.  This only leads to further conflict because my ‘good’ guys get to do whatever they want regardless and your ‘bad’ guy doesn’t.  In this limited sense I find agreement with Stockholm if not agreement on the situation in Sri Lanka specifically.     

"There is no excuse for a well disciplined resistance movement to indulge terrorist tactics."

It is also unfair for a resistance movement to be sidelined. How do you justify the International community picking one side (most cases, it is the government side) and financing it, supplying arms, training it, giving it diplomatic power while the other side is totally ignored. The other side is going to have to find new and deadlier method of warfare to match the warships, fighter jets, state of the art guns and so on........

Don't you agree?

Coming back to the Sri Lankan-Tamil issue. The Tamil people in Canada would have been happier when the LTTE was listed as a terrorist if that same listing was applied to the Sri Lankan government. That would have reduced both of them gaining capabilities, instead Canada and other western governments decided to weaken the LTTE and strengthen the Sri Lankan government. Which was definitely counter productive.

How was it fair that before the 2002 CFA agreement to stop the Tigers? They were regaining all their lost land and were slaughtering the Sri Lankan Armed Forces and was at the door step of Jaffa peninsula where 40 000 Sri Lankan troops been occupying the peninsula with its 600 000 + Tamil inhabitants (second last territory and a vital part of the Tamil Eelam that the Tamil people want/require to complete Tamil Eelam). Panicking that Tigers have the 40 000 troops at their mercy (slaughtering the 40 000 would have made Sri Lanka fall to its knee and collapse), the President of Sri Lanka sent her officials to India to save the troops. India refused to help publically but knowing that if they don't do something about it there is no stopping the Tigers from creating Tamil Eelam, and fearing the anger from Tamil Nadu if did help Sri Lanka, India just asked the USA, EU, Japan, Norway to find away. Tigers being pressured (and the clear sign and threat that if they don't, India will use its entire force) they unilaterally declared a ceasefire in December 2001. A mistake they are now regretting and the Tamil Diaspora is blaming themselves as we should have pressured the Tigers to go ahead with the slaughtering of the 40 000 troops in Jaffna peninsula..

As a Tamil I have been following on the political development (just like the rest of the community) and I am very saddened by the way everyone has played a game with the Tamil people's freedom.

Again LTTE has repeatedly asked for a referendum (under UN supervision) for the Tamil people to decide if they wanted to separate or stay united. If the International Community would have listened to that, right now there wouldn't be a tragedy. Also the Tigers proposed the ISGA (Interim Self-Governing Authority) during the 2002 CFA peace talks which was rejected by the Sri Lankan government and offered no alternatives to that proposal as well.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3232913.stm

Stockholm,
Here is something for you:

Michael Tomasky asks Hillary Clinton about Iraq, the legacy of the Cold War, Mukasey and ceding executive powers - October 23, 2007

Q. Yeah. Do you think that the terrorists hate us for our freedoms, or do you think they have specific geopolitical objectives?

Well, I believe that terrorism is a tool that has been utilized throughout history to achieve certain objectives. Some have been ideological, others territorial. There are personality-driven terroristic objectives. The bottom line is, you can't lump all terrorists together. And I think we've got to do a much better job of clarifying what are the motivations, the raisons d'être of terrorists. I mean, what the Tamil Tigers are fighting for in Sri Lanka, or the Basque separatists in Spain, or the insurgents in al-Anbar province may only be connected by tactics. They may not share all that much in terms of what is the philosophical or ideological underpinning. And I think one of our mistakes has been painting with such a broad brush, which has not been particularly helpful in understanding what it is we were up against when it comes to those who pursue terrorism for whichever ends they're seeking.

That's quite the political philosophy!

There are two despicable sides to every story: the weak side-who should embrace non-violence, take what they get and turn the other cheek and the strong side who should dish out their violence rapidly and effectively.

"Yet you are using this argument to either avoid agreeing with the statement from me you quote or unequivocally stating that you believe terrorist tactics are legitimate. "

Let me tell you something about the Tamil Diaspora, Tamil people on the island and the Tamil people of Tamil Nadu; there is overwhelming support for the Tigers goal to restore the sovereignty of the Tamil people on that island. The methods are not agreed upon by many of us and the rest of us see it as a necessary evil that we need to bury once the sovereignty of the Tamil people is restored.

I hope I made my stand point clear on this issue.

We are definately not happy about us being pushed to the corner and forced to adopt Terrorist methods to gain what is rightfully ours.

"We are definately not happy about us being pushed to the corner and forced to adopt Terrorist methods to gain what is rightfully ours.

In other words - the devil made me do it.

Maybe you could tell us why your beloved Tamil Tigers had no choice but to do the following:

"On June 2, 1987 33 Sinhalese Buddhist novice monks were dragged out of a bus at Aranthalawa and shot dead at close range. What when the Tamil Tigers took away 700 policemen in relays, who had surrendered as ordered by President Premadasa of Sri Lanka with a promise by the Tamil Tigers to send them south unharmed, and shot dead with their hands tied at their backs and having asked them to kneel in front of a ditch."

I guess they just had no choice but to commit these atrocities.

Do you also think that the people battling for an independent Sikh homeland were "forced" into blowing up the Air India plane with 300 Canadians aboard.

 Poor things. It must be so tough to be "forced" to do things like this.

I don't give a damn what the "source" of the problem is. Ther can NEVER EVER EVER EVER be any excuse for things like dragging 33 Buddhist moks off a bus and murdering them all at point blank range.

If someone started a thread that referred to Tamils as "sub-human necrophiliacs" and tried to justify atrocities against Tamils as being "necessary". I would denounce those people in the same terms.

An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind. Why don't you Tamils and Sinhala just all learn Esperanto and live together as one big happy family instead of massacring each other. Sri Lanka is a beautiful place. Too its being destroyed by people on both sides who hate their enemies more than they love their own children.

Thats some endurance thirusuj, pity it never pays off with stockholm. He obviously still isn't listening at all. He did sum up why he should be ignored quite nicely in his latest post however,

Bravo. A simply stunning admission. Then go away. 

If you go back to the above posts, you would find that we were discussing the Tamil people's grievance, example post #54 from you and the answer to that in post #55 and #57 and mimeguy contributed to it more in the post #59 by expressing the fear of the world in recognizing the borders before colonialism.

If you stop pointing fingers and asked constructive question about the Tamil people's grievance then we can build on it further.

"Tamil Tigers massacring busloads of Buddhist monks."

I asked you to provide the source and you still have not done so and you are acting very childish.

I was so waiting for this....

This is why I was hoping for you would provide a "creditable source". SPUR is not a creditable source and most of the atrocities are not investigated but directly blamed on the LTTE and half the incidents are done by the Sri Lankan home guards, pro-government paramilitaries, and the Sri Lankan Armed forces itself. SPUR is operated by a group of Sinhalese from Australia, New Zealand etc.

I am sure you browsed through the website and guaranteed that you would not have found one incident in relation to the Sri Lankan government atrocities. I can also give you websites where all the things done by the government is highlighted and none by the Tamil Tigers.

I feel pity that you been exposed to the propaganda of one side and your judgment has no balance.

You might as well read defence.lk, it's the Sri Lankan government defense ministry website.

If you are going to pull something like this in the future, please don't waste my time. Next time provide independent and international sources.

Oh, I forgot to mention that SPUR has affiliation with the Sinhalese nationalist party JHU which is exclusively for monks.

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSCOL68571

Here is something for you in response. Hope you have Adobe Acrobat installed.
Here are some of the recorded atrocities by the Sri Lankan government which they have affidavits and so on...

http://www.nesohr.org/files/Lest_We_Forget.pdf

Obviously you seem to have a problem even though I try my best to provide credible source with my arguments.

I will let others decide and question my point of view and the credible source I provide.

I haven't known what to make of this thread since it was started. The article in the OP uses the term 'necrophilia' in an clinically incorrect and probably intentionally inflammatory way. The article makes a valid point about how the bodies of casualties should be treated, and that the sexualized display of the dead women combatants, suggesting that they may have also been raped, either before or after they were killed, is abhorrent. It's also, sickeningly, par for the course in violent military conflicts. That doesn't make it any less repulsive or saddening, and attention should still be drawn to it. But this is not necrophilia. Why is this term being repeated sensationalistically in the thread title ?

Ok, this comes under the heading of better late than never.  I'm inclined to agree with those who have some discomfort with the thread title.  The authors own the report cited, but thread titles reflect on rabble.  It would appear to say that being subhuman is a characteristic of Sinhalese Bhuddists.  That's like failing to make the distinction between say the IDF and Jews worldwide, so I've changed it.

Now, about the video which was linked in the OP.  when it was first posted, I started to open it, but just got as far as a bit of sound and lights.  I was at work, and a Tamil colleague was just feet away from me.  She's already upset enough about this stuff.  I just got back to it now.

Whoever this woman was, and whatever horrors she or her remains suffered will not be further seen on this site.  Thirusuj, don't link to stuff like that again.

Thirusuj, you are clearly an active partisan in this cause.  That's not against policy, but I'm stating the obvious for those who haven't figured it out.  I've stated my own opinion on the overall conflict elsewhere, and from whence I am informed on the subject.  I am supportive of Tamil self determination.  I also have on my teams caseload a Tamil kid who was tortured by the LTTE, and is pretty badly damaged.  I know Tamils who have emigrated to escape the LTTE as well as the general poverty and oppression.  In my opinion both sides are badly led. 

Oldgoat,

I have copied the article and its straight from the AHRC, little did I know that it would create a controversy which became to be seen as generalizing the entire Sinhalese population. There is clear distinction from the Sri Lankan governments along with its extremist supporters and state institutions which is world apart from the poor Sinhalese who have no choice but fall to the dirty politics of Sri Lanka. Thank you for changing the title.

The attachment of the link also created a negative stir, which could have been avoided if I had kept the video out of this thread. Since the evidence was available for the article I tagged it without thinking deeper and made it worst by not giving viewer discretion.

Yes, I am an active partisan and very supportive of the Tamils external self-determination. I am certainly not here to make LTTE look like they are the good guys, as a Tamil I am well aware that LTTE is not an angel. I have disagreement about their decision on the Tamil speaking Muslims of Jaffna (an issue they handled irresponsibly), the failure to discipline their cadres in the 80's and 90's for doing revenge killings which has caused many of the Tamil people to be disgusted and stained the earlier struggle of non-violence.

Like I stated before, their tactics are not agreed by many while some decided to overlook until external self-determination is achieved. Amazingly the support for them to restore the sovereignty of the Tamil people is overwhelming and growing.

I am looking forward to continue on this thread and look into the past that got everything to the current stage.

Gee, maybe now you can attract attention to the conflict in Tibet by starting a thread that calls Tibetan Buddhists sub-human necrophiliacs or whatever. I'm sure you could also get a juicy thread going that says that Jews kill Christian babies and use their blood to make matzoh. Is that your idea of drawing attention to a conflict?

What is is you want to discuss? You started the thread with an article discussing the abhorrent treatment of women combatants' bodies by Sinhalese forces. Everyone agrees with you it's sickening and abhorrent. What else do you want to talk about?

Stockholm, shut up.  The thread title is changed now, and at this point you're just derailing with inflammatory crap.  Stay out if you have nothing of substance to add.

Jas,

Many people outside of the conflict seem to think that this conflict is battle between LTTE and the Sri Lankan government (making it part of the "war on terror"); totally ignores that this is a battle between the Tamil people who wants their sovereignty restored and the Sri Lankan government that is hell bent on not allowing that to happen at any cost....to make it worst, the government has followed a genocidal agenda which still continues.

Then there is lack of understanding of why the Tamil people want their sovereignty restored, what steps they have taken to finally end up supporting/financing/legitimizing the LTTE to fight on their behalf with the Sri Lankan government.

Then there is the Sinhalese aspect of why they oppose such move, how they contribute to a system where they are victims as well.

Then there is the double standard and geo-political interest of other nations that blocks the right to self-determination as where people who have expressed it later then the Tamils have achieved it and have developed. Why is it being denied to the Tamil people?

The development of the LTTE (including the use of terrorist tactics) to be the only non-state actor to have an army, naval wing, air wing and many other aspects that is required in a national army. How they also developed into an administrative organization.

The Ceylon state which was a prosperous/multi-ethnic to a human rights violator and the most militarized country in Asia now known as Sri Lanka.

The complication of the response from 80 million Tamils worldwide if Sri Lanka is allowed to follow its military and genocidal agenda.

The historical myths and facts that define this conflict.

The propaganda tools used by both players as well as other players.

I am sure you and others can add more aspects in discussing this conflict.

Since I am new to rabble, how many posts does it take to close a thread......are we allowed to countiue with the same title but a new thread that might add, "part 2".

I want to countiue as I am finding more people who are intrested and could offer a healthy discussion.