Bernie Sanders for President

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NorthReport

Bernie Sanders Surges Ahead of Hillary Clinton in New Iowa Poll

http://time.com/4189537/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-poll-iowa/

wage zombie

New Bernie Sanders ad - America

NorthReport

Sanders’s Iowa Ground Game Is Good — But It Ain’t Obama’s

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/sanderss-iowa-ground-game-is-good-bu...

Aristotleded24

wage zombie wrote:
New Bernie Sanders ad - America

Not sure that ad does it for me. I think it needed some naration, something to convey the message that, "whether you farm in Kansas, drive a taxi in New York, or own a ranch in Texas, you work very hard to make America great. Bernie Sanders understands that, he has worked hard for you and will work hard for you as your President."

Basically, he needs to invite people to look forward to the [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImvoZsiy8AM]Days of America[/url]

Brachina

lagatta wrote:

The red scare stuff is so bad that it is funny. They are attacking things Eugene Debs said in 1918? But Clinton's people made a big mistake in attacking Bernie for his age. She is 68, and er, patriarchy still reigns. She is most obviously facelifted and must have a hair stylist on every means of transport she takes. If she let her hair go grey and not be restyled to a millimetre of its life, she'd get the OLD insults 100 times more than Bernie does.

No, I'm not being ageist or sexist. I'm some years younger than Clinton and considerably younger than Sanders, but I'm far from young and have let my hair go grey. Just pointing out the sad reality of sexism and ageism, which always hits women far harder in public life, unless they are the Queen. Her team would be well advised to steer far away from that attack mode.

 

 Show me a single person who believes Clinton is older then Bernie Sanders?

 Bernie is gaining because 1) people can't stand Clinton on a personal level for a host of reasons that have nothing to do with her gender or sex, she's unpopular for making bad decisions, lying, being a tool of wall street.

 2) Bernie represents a rebellion against ineffective indentity politics that have allowed the Elites to turn the common people against each other, based on race, religion, sex orientation, gender, sex, hell even prefered sci fi francise. This is not to say various indenity issues aren't important, I support gay marriage, and a whole bunch of things, its just that for many, especially white men, they are tired of the common economic interests being sidelined in favour of identity politics, they want a focus to return to solidarity and the common interest, stuff that applies to everyone. This is also why even many republicans support Bernie. I know this is not the reason people here want to here and of course Bernie has supporters from all works of life, some of which do so for the above reason among others, and some including some feminists for other reasons.

 In fact I know of Feminists, MRAs, Blacks, Whites, Men, Women, Gay, Straight, etc... all supporting Bernie he can bring back solidarity to North America.

Brachina

Aristotleded24 wrote:

wage zombie wrote:
New Bernie Sanders ad - America

Not sure that ad does it for me. I think it needed some naration, something to convey the message that, "whether you farm in Kansas, drive a taxi in New York, or own a ranch in Texas, you work very hard to make America great. Bernie Sanders understands that, he has worked hard for you and will work hard for you as your President."

Basically, he needs to invite people to look forward to the [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImvoZsiy8AM]Days of America[/url]

 It does that in spades, it does it through emotional language instead of logic, which is why its so good and powerful, its one of the best ads I've ever seen.

lagatta

MRAs... I'm sure he has some White Supremacists supporting him somewhere, if you really want to drag through the muck of reaction. I wouldn't be too proud of support from sexist filth like MRAs.

The ad was talking about people in the US, not "North America". If he wants to stand as POTUS, not much reason he'd mention Canada or Mexico.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
its just that for many, especially white men, they are tired of the common economic interests being sidelined in favour of identity politics

Anyone want to parse this for irony?

lagatta

x

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
people can't stand Clinton on a personal level for a host of reasons that have nothing to do with her gender or sex

I'm glad we've finally left sexism behind us.

But have you ever seen the popular rebus, featuring Hillary Clinton?

Everyone knows what a rebus is, ya?  A sentence or phrase made of pictures, and read by naming the pictures?

The one I'm thinking of, and reluctant to republish, shows:

1.  An eye

2.  A heart

3.  A picture of Hillary Clinton

4.  A tree

5.  A musical note

It's meant to be read as "I love country music".

Do you feel like that's valid political criticism, Brachina?  That it has NOTHING to do with her gender or sex?

lagatta

That particular bad pun goes all the way back to Shakespeare. Country matters.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

It's not even original??

lagatta

Look up "country matters" + Hamlet or Shakespeare. Wink

Aristotleded24

[url=http://commondreams.org/news/2016/01/25/backing-bernies-boldness-south-c... is it that people find so appealing about Sanders?[/url]

Quote:
Democratic State Representative Justin T. Bamberg, who is representing the family of Walter Scott, a black man shot and killed last year by a police officer, told the New York Times he decided to support Sanders after the two men spoke for 20 minutes last week on Martin Luther King Day about Scott's death.

"What I got from him was not a presidential candidate talking to a state representative, or an old white man talking to a young black guy," Bamberg said. "What I got from him was a man talking to a man about things that they are passionate about, and that was the tipping point for me."

monty1

Poor Bernie, the machine on all sides will destroy him. But at least he has probably scared the hell out of them for a while. And maybe the anti-establishment side will be encouraged enought go get their guns and, as they say, 'water the tree of liberty' a bit.

every little bit helps. maybe next election there will be enough of them dying in the streets with gunshot wounds and untreated illnesses to cause that country to see the light.

Not the light of god that they have been looking for and doesn't exist, the real light of humanity and caring for their fellow man!

(just a moment of levity and dropping out from more serious business)

Brachina

lagatta wrote:

MRAs... I'm sure he has some White Supremacists supporting him somewhere, if you really want to drag through the muck of reaction. I wouldn't be too proud of support from sexist filth like MRAs.

The ad was talking about people in the US, not "North America". If he wants to stand as POTUS, not much reason he'd mention Canada or Mexico.

 

 Comparing MRAs to White Supremacist is unfair and dishonest analogy. MRAs do not believe men are better then women. How many black people are leaders in the White Supremacists, yet some of the strongest and most popular leaders in the MRA movement are women.

 I believe your a good compassionate person and I hope you can look past your biases and see the people not a woman hating demons, but people, well meaning people and realize that while you have your disagreements, that you share a desire for better world. MRA is not a hate movement, they do not sell t-shirts or mugs celebrating male tears, they do not post hashtags like #killallmen then when called out on it claim they're being ironic, they do not push your sex assualt rape laws to exclude entire sex or gender, those things were done by feminists, yet I would not compare feminism to White Supremists, because I know a feminist like you does not want to celebrate men's tears or killallmen, etc...

 I hope someone like Bernie Sanders can help us set aside our difference and we can come together to build a better more compassionate world, that respects individual freedoms.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Brachina wrote:

 Comparing MRAs to White Supremacist is unfair and dishonest analogy. MRAs do not believe men are better then women. How many black people are leaders in the White Supremacists, yet some of the strongest and most popular leaders in the MRA movement are women.

 

 

Aristotleded24

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Brachina wrote:

 Comparing MRAs to White Supremacist is unfair and dishonest analogy. MRAs do not believe men are better then women. How many black people are leaders in the White Supremacists, yet some of the strongest and most popular leaders in the MRA movement are women.

 

 

Don't forget Colin Powell and Bill Cosby.

lagatta

"Biases".

I'm also biased against capitalism, environmental destruction, racism and a whole lot of other stuff!

Brachina

 Colin Powell and Bill Cosby are white supremists now? WTF, I don't agree with they're politics, but that's an aburd statement, or is being rightwing now automatically make you a white supremist, but if we go down that road the words stop meaning anything at all, don't you see long term this does more damage to the left then the right, it makes it hard to take us seriously when we make absurd and utterly unfair statements like this to smear people we don't agree with.

 When you carelessly through words like racist, white supremist, sexist, etc... blindly and for no other purpose then to smear people you disagree with you acting like the boy who cried wolf, except your taking the rest of us down with you.

 There is alot to critize a Colen Powell for, the Iraq Wars was a disgrace that leaves IS as its child of hate and brutality, but calling him a White Supremist is bullshit. Being a White Supremist is a specific set of beliefs, horrible ones, and Colen Powell doesn't share them.

 As for your list of "biases", that's a glib answer, you might as well say your biased against pain and suffering, I'm not taking about no brainer basic human biases, I'm talking about your sexist bias against men.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Brachina wrote:

 Colin Powell and Bill Cosby are white supremists now? WTF, I don't agree with they're politics, but that's an aburd statement, or is being rightwing now automatically make you a white supremist, but if we go down that road the words stop meaning anything at all, don't you see long term this does more damage to the left then the right, it makes it hard to take us seriously when we make absurd and utterly unfair statements like this to smear people we don't agree with.

I can see how you would not understand the slightly subtle nature of the white supremacy that is inherent in the GOP. After all you think MRA are not sexist. White supremacy is not just the KKK and the GOP fits the bill.

I posted the Rice photo because she shows you can be both black and female and sell out both of those groups by joining with the people in the ruling elite that are racist and sexist. Just because a person's gender is female doesn't mean they can't fight vehemently against their sisters best interests.

lagatta

MRA is a hate movement. They have threatened feminists, at least here in Québec, and I have no reason to believe it would be different anywhere else. The idea that to be non-sexist is to be "gender-neutral" is a denial of thousands of years of patriarchy. It is like the silliness of claiming to be "colour-blind". It is wonderful when people are actually colour-blind or gender-blind in their interpersonal relations - and fortunately I see that more and more among younger generations - but important not to deny the reality and real hurt caused by racism and sexism - as well as class privilege, of course.

Aristotleded24

Brachina wrote:
lagatta wrote:

MRAs... I'm sure he has some White Supremacists supporting him somewhere, if you really want to drag through the muck of reaction. I wouldn't be too proud of support from sexist filth like MRAs.

The ad was talking about people in the US, not "North America". If he wants to stand as POTUS, not much reason he'd mention Canada or Mexico.

Comparing MRAs to White Supremacist is unfair and dishonest analogy. MRAs do not believe men are better then women. How many black people are leaders in the White Supremacists, yet some of the strongest and most popular leaders in the MRA movement are women.

Do you remember the Elliot Rodger shooting? Do you remember all the bile posted on MRA forums about how women are manipulative bitches and sluts who take advantage of men and won't sleep with "nice guys" like them, or in some cases even praising Rodger's actions because those bitches finally got what's coming to them?

voice of the damned

I'm not sure why Kropotkin posted that particular photo of Condi Rice, since it's a photoshop joke and as such proves nothing about her. I'll assume he thought it was real.

http://tinyurl.com/j65tegs

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

voice of the damned wrote:

I'm not sure why Kropotkin posted that particular photo of Condi Rice, since it's a photoshop joke and as such proves nothing about her. I'll assume he thought it was real.

http://tinyurl.com/j65tegs

I thought it might be photoshopped but I also thought that the joke rang true. She is/was a sellout to both her race and gender.

http://www.politico.com/story/2012/10/condi-backs-mitt-on-womens-issues-...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
I thought it might be photoshopped but I also thought that the joke rang true.

And that's why you told us that it wasn't real.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Glenn Greenwald has posted a scathing critique of Paul Krugman's decision to classify any progressive who doesn't support Hillary Clinton as Not Serious. Greenwald prints a list of 170 fairly serious sounding experts who signed a letter endorsing Sanders' approach to regulating Wall Street. The list begins with:

1. Robert Reich, University of California Berkeley

2. Robert Hockett, Cornell University

3. James K. Galbraith, University of Texas

4. Dean Baker, Center for Economic and Policy Research

5. Christine Desan, Harvard Law School

6. Jeff Connaughton, Former Chief of Staff, Senator Ted Kaufman

7. William Darity Jr., Duke University

8. Eileen Appelbaum, Center for Economic and Policy Research

9. Brad Miller, Former U.S. Congressman and Senior Fellow, Roosevelt Institute

10. William K. Black, University of Missouri-Kansas City

Interesting that Krugman has turned out to be such a neo-liberal loyalist.

monty1

Michael Moriarity wrote:

Glenn Greenwald has posted a scathing critique of Paul Krugman's decision to classify any progressive who doesn't support Hillary Clinton as Not Serious. Greenwald prints a list of 170 fairly serious sounding experts who signed a letter endorsing Sanders' approach to regulating Wall Street. The list begins with:

1. Robert Reich, University of California Berkeley

2. Robert Hockett, Cornell University

3. James K. Galbraith, University of Texas

4. Dean Baker, Center for Economic and Policy Research

5. Christine Desan, Harvard Law School

6. Jeff Connaughton, Former Chief of Staff, Senator Ted Kaufman

7. William Darity Jr., Duke University

8. Eileen Appelbaum, Center for Economic and Policy Research

9. Brad Miller, Former U.S. Congressman and Senior Fellow, Roosevelt Institute

10. William K. Black, University of Missouri-Kansas City

Interesting that Krugman has turned out to be such a neo-liberal loyalist.

If anything, the attacks on Sanders and the lauding it on for Clinton show us that the D establishment is rotten to the core. I hope you agree.

It's so disappointing to hear the trash talk from Krugman. But now I suppose we can expect the worst.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

monty1 wrote:

If anything, the attacks on Sanders and the lauding it on for Clinton show us that the D establishment is rotten to the core. I hope you agree.

It's so disappointing to hear the trash talk from Krugman. But now I suppose we can expect the worst.

Yes, I do agree. They are as committed to the neo-liberal oligarchy as the Republicans are.

Brachina

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Brachina wrote:
lagatta wrote:

MRAs... I'm sure he has some White Supremacists supporting him somewhere, if you really want to drag through the muck of reaction. I wouldn't be too proud of support from sexist filth like MRAs.

The ad was talking about people in the US, not "North America". If he wants to stand as POTUS, not much reason he'd mention Canada or Mexico.

Comparing MRAs to White Supremacist is unfair and dishonest analogy. MRAs do not believe men are better then women. How many black people are leaders in the White Supremacists, yet some of the strongest and most popular leaders in the MRA movement are women.

Do you remember the Elliot Rodger shooting? Do you remember all the bile posted on MRA forums about how women are manipulative bitches and sluts who take advantage of men and won't sleep with "nice guys" like them, or in some cases even praising Rodger's actions because those bitches finally got what's coming to them?

 No links please.

bekayne
NorthReport

Now would be a good time for Elizabeth Warren to speak out on Sander's behalf.

Brachina

 I post a link to an article on intercept about BS attacks against Bernie over so called Bern Bros, although the article itself is sexist as it treats men's votes as less valueable then womens and something to apologize for.

 

 PS I absolutely despise that rabble blocks linking to things.

lagatta

Brachina, cut out the MRA stuff.

What is rabble.ca?

rabble.ca is a public, independent, progressive news and information source. In defining itself as "progressive," rabble.ca embraces a pro-human rights, pro-feminist, anti-racist, queer-positive, anti-imperialist and pro-labour stance, and as such encourages discussions which develop and expand progressive thought.

babble: discussion board

As part of rabble.ca, babble was created to ensure that readers and participants could explore a wide range of issues of interest and concern in interactive and dynamic ways.

babble is NOT intended as a place where the basic and fundamental values of human rights, feminism, anti-racism and labour rights are to be debated or refought. Anyone who joins babble who indicates intentions to challenge these rights and principles may be seen as disruptive to the nature of the forum.

iyraste1313

what is Babble?

surely this is a joke, reading so many apologists for the most outrageous crimes against humanity, labour and human destroying globalization processes and all the Canadian MPs they so steadfastly support globalization as the cure for all human ills...which of course refers to utter destruction of the planet!

As for the US electoral campaign, given that the races are so close, no doubt it will be Microsoft our great institution upholding all our values we cherish, that will decide the lection for us...

lagatta

Are you trying to shut down discussion about sexism? Since babble is an open forum (though subject to rules as set above), it is normal that there will be a wide range of people taking part, including some you, I or other babblers might consider "apologists" for various régimes and practices. If they are violating rabble or babble policy, then mention the specific violation.

Gustave

lagatta wrote:
Brachina, cut out the MRA stuff.

Please do not submit to that kind of authority. She's trying to impose her brand of feminism on you. For me, like a huge amount of men and women, feminism=movement for the equality of rights and opportunities between women and men. Lagatta has some other brand that says that you got to believe in patriarchy theory annd align yourself  with her on all ethical issues.

Sanders says it reasonably: we all all have different opinions on different issues, and that's a good thing. It does not make impossible to rally behind a political candidate. La politique est l'art du compromis.

It also seems that if you are wayving exactly the right flag, you're allowed to say any bs about men's rights activists. Lagatta, you say they threatened women in Montreal. Well, I bet you cannot name 10 Montreal MRA's. If you are looking for people you could call leading figures, one is in Trois-Rivières, the right leening Olivier Koeastlé, and an other one is in Québec, the psychologist Yvon Dallaire who some would call a social conservative because of his defense of the family institution. But then tell me what's the left feminist position on that.

I'm a huge fan of Sanders. I had great familly vacations with the kids in Burlington, a city he transformed, at least 6 different years. I think it's a bit hypocrite that he has fallen for the wage gap myth. He knows better then that, but it's politically necessary to keep the narrative going, especially against Clinton. But it's still a minor issue.

lagatta

I'm an ecosocialist feminist. You probably have me classified as a "radical feminist", which I'm not, and when on occasion I've made comments at Feminist Current, obvious disagreements emerge. I don't particularly believe in the "aboltion of gender" and many other things their current espouses. We are at odds with them, and also with liberal feminists who accept capitcalist exploitation and commodification of women (or any other human beings). 

I knew both those MRAs and several others here, and their threats against feminists; the latter did not necessarily fall into one category.

As for your disbelief in the wage gap, that ... beggars belief.

What you say about me is a packet of lies. Va te faire foutre, charogne.

monty1

It can't just be termed 'the wage gap' and then a definite position taken on the issue. It needs to be qualifie because there are varying degrees of inequity.

As is several of the other pre-requisites babble sets up. Which makes bable a dangerous place to tread if a person doesn't fit nicely into what some people consider correct. Hence, the flak for supporting Trudeau by some people who thankfully don't pull the strings. 

lagatta

I don't support Trudeau, the Liberals or any other bourgeois party. (I'm interested in the Bernie phenomenon - but am very glad NOT to be USAmerican and have to decide whether I'd vote for someone with "social-democratic" views who is vying to run for the horrible Democratic Party). That said, support to Trudeau does not violate rabble policy - it is not an arm of the NDP or any other party. Our strong disagreement with Trudeau does not equal censorship of those who support him.

monty1

lagatta wrote:

I don't support Trudeau, the Liberals or any other bourgeois party. (I'm interested in the Bernie phenomenon - but am very glad NOT to be USAmerican and have to decide whether I'd vote for someone with "social-democratic" views who is vying to run for the horrible Democratic Party). That said, support to Trudeau does not violate rabble policy - it is not an arm of the NDP or any other party. Our strong disagreement with Trudeau does not equal censorship of those who support him.

I understand that now but surely that was a big bone of contention when I first started on this forum. I really did think that my politics wasn't in order, me being a Trudeau supporter. Now I see that wasn't the case. Remember, some of the attacks were purely politics and couldn't be disguised as anything else. Now I think it's just time to move on.

I note that you call the Liberals a bourgeous party. If that were true then it would be in contravention of the rules to support them. It's not and it isn't in my opinion.

Gustave

lagatta wrote:
Va te faire foutre, charogne.

That's quite agressive! And I guess it's against the Rabble rules.

You say you know other MRAs in Montreal and their threats against feminists. I hope you have reported those threats to the police have you? And what's the point in naming no one. I can legitimately ask for empirical evidence of those threats, because many, like Stephanie Guthrie, tend to take as synonymous being threatened and being offended. Two radical feminists, Blais and Dupuis Déry, compiled a reader on what they call the masculinist movement in Québec. Have you read that? Pretty thin on empirical evidence dont you think?But a textbook in hyperbolic language.

You show me where I lied about you. I said you espouse the patriarchy theory. I say that because you use the word quite a lot. I never said you wanted genders to be abolished.

There are real men's issues: school performance, emprisonement and sentencing gap, reproductive rights, access to children after seperation, homelessness, domestic violence and resources availables for those who are victimized. A very small number of men work on those issues in Montreal. Most don't even call themselves MRA. There are much much more anti feminists, more precisely anti radical feminism. MRAs constitute a very small fraction of them.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

monty1 wrote:

As is several of the other pre-requisites babble sets up. Which makes bable a dangerous place to tread if a person doesn't fit nicely into what some people consider correct. Hence, the flak for supporting Trudeau by some people who thankfully don't pull the strings. 

The main flack you have received is for you claiming you are really an NDP supporter but then you fawn over the Liberals and Trudeau. Its those kinds of contradictions that got you lots of flack. That and your insistence on pissing on anyone who still supports the NDP now that you have moved on to the Liberal's.  The combination is just hard to digest and keep down. Then of course there is your insistence that anyone who doesn't like Trudeau the Lesser is an NDP partisan. I almost fell out of my chair laughing when you started going after NDPP for being biased towards the NDP.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

lagatta wrote:

What you say about me is a packet of lies. Va te faire foutre, charogne.

If suspect if you had a vehicle he might turn into road kill. Innocent

The idea that men's rights should trump everything is a very old philosophy for men who think women are inferior. Of course the MRA's people don't see it that way because in our society women actually have some power so for them it is that women have any power at all. One place you will find no MRA's is in Saudi Arabia because they don't need to do anything the state enforces all the things a MRA can only dream of in Canada.

monty1

kropotkin said:

Quote:
The main flack you have received is for you claiming you are really an NDP supporter but then you fawn over the Liberals and Trudeau.

Yes, I think that's accurate inasmuch as my claim wasn't accepted and so some people decided that was a good reason to attack me. Legitimate?

As to whether my claim of being a lifelong NDP supporter who has also voted for the CCF, that seems to remain in dispute. I would imagine that it never will be accepted by some. I don't think it matters all that much. 

And now I think it's time to get back to Bernie Sanders, and if not then take your complaints to another place. Is there a section for this kind of harrassment and defence against such?

I found it appalling watching MSNBC last night on the way they trashed Sanders. It was coming off as an infocommercial for Clinton. The continuous claims that Clinton won Iowa, her claim that she had won with 10% of the vote outstanding, and the suspicion still out there that in fact Sanders had won but lost to establishment hanky-panky. 

The importance of this can't be over-estimated. Clinton needs the appearance of winning so badly while in fact it was a tie and Sanders can live with that. What's your opinion?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I hope Bernie wins but I suspect given the oligarchies fear of him it will be a very short lived Presidency. Naming Warren as his running mate means they will have to off both of them to have the regime change they will be trying for. If he names any of the establishment Democrats as a running mate he will be dead in the water.

monty1

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I hope Bernie wins but I suspect given the oligarchies fear of him it will be a very short lived Presidency. Naming Warren as his running mate means they will have to off both of them to have the regime change they will be trying for. If he names any of the establishment Democrats as a running mate he will be dead in the water.

Some would see the suggestion that they would 'off' Bernie and Elizabeth as extremist. I don't because I believe it would be entirely possible. But I would differ in that they would 'off' Bernie before he got that far. But not Elizabeth. That's over the top IMO.

lagatta

Kropotkin, I'm not at all a violent person. Just pissed off. At this:

Please do not submit to that kind of authority. She's trying to impose her brand of feminism on you. For me, like a huge amount of men and women, feminism=movement for the equality of rights and opportunities between women and men. Lagatta has some other brand that says that you got to believe in patriarchy theory annd align yourself  with her on all ethical issues.

I don't know what he means by "patriarchy theory". That patriarchy has existed, and continues to exist? Most feminists agree on that. That patriarchy trumps capitalism, or class struggle? I think it is fairly clear to anyone who has read my posts over the past 15 years (I joined in 2001 after the Québec countersumit - due to a computer glitch I had to sign up again in 2002) that this is not the case.

And yes, I do think that feminism, like socialism and environmentalism, has an ethical component.

ygtbk

FWIW, Glenn Greenwald thinks that "Bernie Bros" is a ploy by pro-Clinton journalists.

https://theintercept.com/2016/01/31/the-bernie-bros-narrative-a-cheap-false-campaign-tactic-masquerading-as-journalism-and-social-activism/

The "who cited whom" list about 1/3 of the way through the story is kind of funny.

iyraste1313

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1thcO_olHas

.....interview with a programmer of rigged elections under oath

As for the US electoral campaign, given that the races are so close, no doubt it will be Microsoft our great institution upholding all our values we cherish, that will decide the elction for us...

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