British election June 8, 2017

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Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
The dilemma being, though, that a lot of people who voted "Leave" now seem to feel they were duped

Well, the vote was to stay or leave, and they voted to leave, and now the UK is leaving.

If they felt they were promised immediate prosperity, or whatever, then I don't really know what to say about that.  Generally, you can count on your opponents in a referendum such as this to make extensive note of any downsides, so it's not like voters were never told that there would be penalties for this as well as benefits.

Quote:
And there is the precedent that several countries in Europe has second referendums on entering the EU after the first referendum ended in a "NO" vote.

Very well.  If the second referendum was held because someone didn't like the results of the first then I have a hard time supporting that either.  If it was years later (different electorate, different times) then fine, no problem.  But to turn around and re-vote on something you just voted on doesn't really seem legitimate to me.  Again, what makes the second vote meaningful if the first was not?

ed'd to add:  for what it's worth, I personally think this referendum would have been a perfectly appropriate time for a supermajority requirement.  This change -- Brexit -- is going to have an impact on nearly every segment and sector of UK society, and cannot be easily undone.

I say this knowing how unpopular supermajority requirements for referendums are.  But if they'd had one, we wouldn't even be talking about this.

Rev Pesky

Worthwhile to remember the vote on leaving the EU was not binding. The government of the day, and indeed any government following, was not bound to leave the UK because of that vote. To a certain extent, the fact that it was non-binding may have inflenced the result in that voters could express their anger against 'whatever' without doing any permanent damage.

I suspect a lot of voters either ignored the vote, or voted to leave while at the same time not believing it would actually happen. Think of by-elections that don't threaten the majority of a government. You can express your anger against the government without doing any permanent damage to it.

NorthReport

Big Rate Increases Coming for BC Hydro, ICBC, Liberals’ Projections Reveal

In attacking NDP platform, Liberals pulled back curtain on coming price jumps for consumers.

 

https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2017/05/01/Rate-Increases-BC-Hydro-ICBC/

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Worthwhile to remember the vote on leaving the EU was not binding. The government of the day, and indeed any government following, was not bound to leave the UK because of that vote.

I recall this being noted at the time, along with noting that any government who would say to the electorate "thank you for telling us what you want; we'll go ahead now and do the exact opposite" might experience a little pushback from the electorate.  How likely is it that the electorate would feel they can trust any government who humours them with a referendum and then does what they think is best and what they intended to do all along?

But even notwithstanding that, I'm having trouble understanding this as some kind of "protest vote".  A protest against what?  If you're angry at your country being a member of the EU, but you don't actually and truly want them to leave, what sense would it really make to vote to leave??  To tell the government that you don't really want to leave, except fuck it, you do want to leave (but really you don't, and you trust that they know that)?

 

josh

The point is that had they voted 52-48 to stay anyone suggesting a revote would have been shouted down by the corporate media, most politicians and those duped into believing the EU is anything other than a right-wing economic project with some feel good social issue window dressing.  The issue was clearly set forth.  The vote should be respected.

josh

British Prime Minister Theresa May on Wednesday accused European Union officials of trying to influence the U.K. elections, ratcheting up tensions with Brussels over her country’s departure from the bloc.

http://ipolitics.ca/2017/05/03/british-leader-accuses-eu-officials-of-election-interference/

 

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

josh wrote:

British Prime Minister Theresa May on Wednesday accused European Union officials of trying to influence the U.K. elections, ratcheting up tensions with Brussels over her country’s departure from the bloc.

This is an interesting gambit. If May is in the process of cruising to an easy victory, why would she do something apparently nutzoid like this? It almost looks desperate. Maybe there is some internal polling that has her scared shitless.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

She couldn't think of a way to blame Russia so she went with the next best zenophobic taarget.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..maybe this explains it

A simple people’s Brexit plan can replace May’s flawed strategy

What galaxy are you in? That’s the real question posed by this election and one our political system is not designed to answer.

After a disastrous dinner at Downing Street last week, Jean-Claude Juncker briefed Angela Merkel that Theresa May was in a “different galaxy” to those negotiating on behalf of the EU27.

May expects Britain to leave Europe while paying nothing; she expects her threat to walk away without an agreement to achieve a trade deal as good as single-market membership; she expects the talks to remain secret. Juncker gently explained that all these expectations were illusory. He warned that the British prime minister was “deluding herself” and that there is now more than a 50% chance that Britain will crash out of Europe without a deal in place.

As we face the coming election, then, whose galaxy do you want to be in? What we are up against is not just the antics of the Tory negotiating team – May, Boris Johnson and David Davis – but also a galaxy of pub bores, Rotarians and golf-club sexists. A galaxy populated by those who worry about the hijab, halal meat and obsess about the St George Cross. A galaxy in which the concept of universal human rights is alien. A galaxy where it is fashionable to sneer at those who queue for free food – but to laud those who queued for free money in the the privatisation giveaways of the Thatcher years.

Constructing a civil government with such people is, for the progressive majority of Britain, always a challenge. But if May gets her way over Brexit, it will be impossible....

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NorthReport wrote:

Big Rate Increases Coming for BC Hydro, ICBC, Liberals’ Projections Reveal

In attacking NDP platform, Liberals pulled back curtain on coming price jumps for consumers.

 

https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2017/05/01/Rate-Increases-BC-Hydro-ICBC/

Not only wrong thread...wrong COUNTRY.

(You're in the right Commonwealth, though).

NorthReport

!!

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NorthReport wrote:

3 most recent polls 60% vs 40% for Macron

 

North...this is the UK election thread.   Scary to see 40% of France ready to vote for a delayed Petainiste victory, though.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Michael Moriarity wrote:
josh wrote:

British Prime Minister Theresa May on Wednesday accused European Union officials of trying to influence the U.K. elections, ratcheting up tensions with Brussels over her country’s departure from the bloc.

This is an interesting gambit. If May is in the process of cruising to an easy victory, why would she do something apparently nutzoid like this? It almost looks desperate. Maybe there is some internal polling that has her scared shitless.

Politicians are naturally inclined to distrust polls showing them well ahead.  Harold Wilson, who led Labour to a solid defeat in the 1970 election despite holding a solid lead in all polls with a week to go before polling day, observed(bitterly, no doubt)that "a week is an eternity in politics". 

In this case, there are over FOUR weeks left before polling day.
 

NorthReport
Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

so there's a chance...if only the PLP finally gets off of Corbyn's case and accepts that beating the Tories matters more than forcing their party fo have a right-wing leader.

NorthReport
josh
kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

That is the good news to show that the Labour party is heading in the right direction. As the Blairites age maybe some of thes young people will step up to the plate.

More than nine out of 10 participating students (93%) who were entitled to vote had registered and most said they planned to use their vote on 8 June, offering some hope to the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn.

Corbyn’s leadership appears to have boosted student support for Labour, which is up from 23% in 2005 to 55% in 2017, but analysts say that may not translate into votes as many who are concerned about Brexit are considering voting tactically.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

One thing to bear in mind about the local election results(which are looking a little bit better for Labour than the doomsayers predicted): those young voters who just registered were ineligible to vote in the local elections.

​If the Labour Right forced Corbyn out and imposes an interim leader who takes an "we've finished with all that socialist nonsense" stance, no one it put in as leader would have any appeal to young voters(they will only vote for the party with a left-wing leader-they regard all "Labour moderates" as corrupt and out of touch).

And no one will come in from any other demographics to replace them.

Therefore, changing leaders in mid-campaign would be a zero-sum proposition.

 

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Jeremy Corbyn’s 10 pledges to transform Britain

Labour’s aim is to rebuild and transform Britain, for the many not the few. These ten pledges set out the framework for what Labour will campaign for - and what a Labour government will do.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

As to the local elections:

​1) Turnout was extremely low, as is often the case in local elections;

2) The huge numbers of young people who have registered to vote for the first time in order to support Corbyn's vision for the party were not eligible to vote in the local elections, having registered too late;

3) The Labour Right dampened enthusiasm among those who were eligible to vote by refusing to stop slagging Corbyn once the general election was called;

4) Local elections held in the months prior to general elections are historically unpredictable as to the general election results.  In 1970, Labour made huge gains in the local elections in April and May; the Labour government led by Harold Wilson was defeated solidly by the Conservatives in June.

 

NorthReport

Welcome to the New England

Much worse than the old England

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hate-incidents-crimes-sch...

Aristotleded24

The graphical summary of public opinion polling on Wikipedia has support for Labour suddenly trending up.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Good sign.  Evidence that victory is possible is needed to get the huge numbers of newly-registered young voters to the polls.  And a suddenly-eroding Tory lead may be the one thing that finally gets the anti-Corbynites to stop the slagging and sabotage.

Aristotleded24

Ken Burch wrote:
And a suddenly-eroding Tory lead may be the one thing that finally gets the anti-Corbynites to stop the slagging and sabotage.

I think it's more likely that I'll sprout gills and be able to breathe underwater.

josh

The rise of the alt-left social media in response to the right-wing Fleet Street tabloids and the anti-Corbyn Guardian

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-rise-of-the-alt-left?utm_term=....

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Labour Party membership surges to new all-time high

OUR perfectly balanced media <irony> keeps telling us that Labour under Jeremy Corbyn is unelectable and members are leaving the Party in droves.

Oh, how wrong they are!

New figures show party membership is creeping towards 660,000, with more than 50,000 joining since Theresa May called the General Election.

Two months ago our unbiased press <irony> were in celebratory mood, reporting that members were leaving the Labour Party in record numbers, and it was all because Jeremy Corbyn was so unpopular.

The Times, The Daily Telegraph, The Daily Mail and even The Guardian reported in March that 7,000 members had left after Mr Corbyn told MPs to back the Brexit bill...

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

The key is to deploy those hundreds of thousands of people where they are needed most to do the hard work of day-to-day electioneering. 

josh
josh

Jeremy Corbyn will lay out plans to take parts of Britain’s energy industry back into public ownership alongside the railways and the Royal Mail in a radical manifesto that promises an annual injection of £6bn for the NHS and £1.6bn for social care.

A draft version of the document, drawn up by the leadership team and seen by the Guardian, pledges the phased abolition of tuition fees, a dramatic boost in finance for childcare, a review of sweeping cuts to universal credit and a promise to scrap the bedroom tax.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/10/labour-party-manifesto-pledges-to-end-tuition-fees-and-nationalise-railways

 

josh

Labour’s manifesto has been given the thumbs up by voters, a Mirror poll reveals today.

The ComRes survey shows overwhelming support for plans to re-nationalise energy, tax the wealthiest and cap the pension age rise.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/poll-shows-people-love-labours-10404216

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Corbyn says Labour will transform Britain as he launches election campaign

Jeremy Corbyn has accused the Conservatives of holding Britain back as he launched Labour’s general election campaign with a rousing speech to activists in Manchester.

With just over four weeks to go until the 8 June vote, the Labour leader unveiled the party’s battle bus on Tuesday, emblazoned with the election slogan “for the many not the few”, at a stage-managed event in a packed conference centre, with the message that Labour would “transform Britain”.

“There is no doubt this country is being held back. If your children are not getting the education they deserve because the class sizes are too high, then your children are being held back. If you’re a young couple, anyone trying to get a home, and can’t make a home because rent and house prices are too high, then you’re being held back,” he said.

If you’ve worked hard all your life, but you can’t pursue your dreams of retirement because you’re supporting your family well into their adulthood, then you too are being held back.”...

josh
epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

A manifesto that is anything but chaotic - Election briefing #14

The leaked Labour manifesto is causing outrage from Tories and the media. Scrapping university tuition fees, public ownership of railways, increasing tax for top earners, extending collective bargaining and trade union rights. Sounds all good to me. At the very least, no one can say this isn't a clear choice between a nasty, privatising party whose cabinet is stuffed full of millionaires, and Jeremy Corbyn's Labour which is trying to reverse unpopular policies or introduce new and more egalitarian ones. I think a lot of this will be attractive to a lot of people.

Far from it being a recipe for chaos, the chaos and dysfunction is already there with privatisation, with forcing universities to become degree factories, and obscene levels of inequality where the rich are getting away with holding down the living standards of the poor. Let's have a serious debate about this and what will be the future of our public services, not the lack of accountability which has marked Empress Theresa's election campaign so far.

I'm disappointed that the proposed manifesto contains a commitment to Trident. It also says troops will only be used when all other avenues have been exhausted. This has been derided by First Strike Fallon as pacifism. A pity previous governments didn't follow this principle as we'd be a lot better off. ...

josh

The only choice the media and the PLP are interested in is between Thatcherism and Neo-Thatcherism.

josh
josh
epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..all this info re bailouts and bonuses was known prior to corbyn. so pre corbyn labour wasn't calling for what now is being called for..fairness. this is telling.

General election 2017: 'Robin Hood tax' on City pledged by Labour

Labour says it would raise billions of pounds for public services with a new tax on financial transactions - known as a "Robin Hood" tax.

It has also warned BAE Systems it could lose future contracts under Labour unless its boss took a £7m pay cut.

Firms who pay their bosses more than 20 times the wage of their lowest paid workers would not get government contracts if Labour wins power.

The Conservatives described Labour's plans as "a total shambles".

Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said Labour's plans to increase taxes on City transactions would be a "Robin Hood tax" that would "make the financial sector pay its fair share" after the damage caused by the financial crisis.

He rejected claims it would damage the City, saying the tax was "not about punishing bankers or anything like that" but "tackling a couple of loopholes" in the system.

"We bailed out the City 10 years ago when the crash came, we poured hundreds of billions of pounds into it. Since then £100bn has been given out in bonuses in the City. So we are asking for a small contribution...to fund our public services."

Labour said it would extend the existing 0.5% stamp duty paid on shares to other financial assets, including investments known as derivatives.....

Aristotleded24

Hopefully the polls showing the gap between Labour and the Conservatives narrowing are accurate and this general trend continues.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Indeed.  And for that to happen, all attacks on Corbyn from within the party need to be suspended until polling day.  It's not possible to elect a Labour government by relentlessly demonizing the leader of the party. 

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Is Labour's manifesto living in fantasy land? Quite the opposite

Ten years ago this month, Britain was on the cusp of change. Two things were about to happen, one planned and one unexpected.

The change everybody knew about was that Tony Blair was going to stand down as prime minister after 10 years in the job, during which time he had won three elections on the trot.

To mark his going, Dan Atkinson and I wrote a book summing up his legacy. Fantasy Island, as the title suggests, was not exactly flattering about Britain’s departing PM. It painted a picture of Britain as mired in debt, where the public sector was on the brink of meltdown, where the country was trying to play the part of world policeman on the cheap, and where the growing size of the trade deficit exposed the perils of allowing manufacturing to shrivel.

Fantasy Island was not exactly a bestseller but it sold reasonably well. The reason for that (apart, obviously, from the book’s razor-sharp analysis and polished prose) was that the biggest financial crisis in a century erupted within two months of its publication and a month after Blair’s departure from Downing Street. This was the unexpected event.

Britain, as a result of what happened between the first inklings of trouble in July 2007 and the bottoming out of a deep slump in the early part of 2009, is an utterly changed country. There has been a lost decade of living standards. Dismal productivity growth and the proliferation of low-paid, insecure jobs have made a mockery of the idea that Britain was forging ahead in the knowledge economy. A decade of investment in the public sector has been followed by a decade of cuts. Without sounding unduly boastful, quite a lot of what was predicted in Fantasy Island came true....

josh

Return of Red Toryism?

Brandishing the slim navy volume, entitled Forward, Together, at a launch event on Thursday in the Labour-held marginal constituency of Halifax, the prime minister promised to use Brexit as an opportunity to reshape the nation.

The manifesto drew a line under the legacy of David Cameron and George Osborne with promises for more state involvement in the economy and an emphasis on wealthier pensioners paying more for their care – as opposed to a focus on cutting inheritance tax.

Its most striking passage appeared to be a rejection of laissez-faire capitalism: “We do not believe in untrammelled free markets. We reject the cult of selfish individualism. We abhor social division, injustice, unfairness and inequality. We see rigid dogma and ideology not just as needless but as dangerous.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/18/theresa-may-launches-conservative-manifesto-for-community-and-country

 

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Sounds like Guardian is trying to set up a rationale for endorsing the Tories. They are THAT obsessively anti-Corbyn and anti-left(perhaps even anti "center-left" at this stage).

NorthReport

Britain's Labour Party Leader Undermined by Labour Members of Parliament

http://therealnews.com/t2/story:18947:Britain%27s-Labour-Party-Leader-Un...

josh
mark_alfred

epaulo13 wrote:

To mark his going, Dan Atkinson and I wrote a book summing up his legacy. Fantasy Island, as the title suggests, was not exactly flattering about Britain’s departing PM.

That's great epaulo13.  I looked up the book in Toronto's public library, but it's not there.  I think I found four other books of yours there though, those being Europe Isn't Working, The Age of Insecurity, Going south : why Britain will have a Third World economy by 2014, and The gods that failed : how blind faith in markets has cost us our future.  Unfortunately they're all reference.  Still, at some point when I'm in a library that has one, I'll check them out.  They all sound interesting.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..not my books mark but larry elliott's.  sorry.

josh

Lead cut to 9 in YouGov poll.  Labour at 35, which is what they got on the '05 election.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9887

NorthReport

Conservatives' rebrand as 'party of the workers' failing as they struggle to shake off 'nasty' tag, poll shows

Exclusive poll shows 47 per cent of the public think Labour would best represent the working class  

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-conservatives-...

mark_alfred

Hey epaulo13, no problem.  Sometimes with the new format of this place I'm not sure when a post is a quote or not. 

Anyway, regarding the election, it is getting exciting.  Slowly but surely Labour is gaining. 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-election-poll-yougov-idUSKCN18...

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