CETA is Coming Are You Scared Yet

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kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture
CETA is Coming Are You Scared Yet

Money mouth Tongue out Yell

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I listened to the CBC News this morning where in the newscast they made it sound like this was the greatest thing ever.  Here is what is coming if we don't fight back hard enough.

Quote:

Alarming proposals

Controversial provisions in the draft text would open Canada’s telecommunications sector to full foreign ownership, stop municipal governments from implementing local or ethical procurement strategies and require a burdensome necessity test for prudential financial measures designed to help governments mitigate or avoid banking and financial crises.

The text also presents a direct attack on Ontario’s Green Energy Act, and would virtually eliminate the rights of farmers to save, reuse and sell seed, thus handing biotech, pharmaceutical, pesticide, seed and grain companies powerful new tools to essentially decide who should farm and how.

"Canadian negotiators have also included a controversial investor-state dispute mechanism like the one in NAFTA," Brown says.

"NAFTA's Chapter 11 dispute process has allowed and encouraged large multinationals to sue North American governments for compensation against public health and environmental policies that limit corporate profits."

http://www.nupge.ca/content/trade-justice-network-releases-leaked-draft-...

 

NDPP

Say No to CETA - Canada - European Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement

http://canadians.org/trade/issues/EU/index.html

"Canada and the European Unon are negotiating a 'comprehensive' free trade agreement that for the first time involves the provinces at the table. That's because European negotiators, acting on behalf of Europe's largest corporations are looking for better access than American companies got in NAFTA - right down to the city and school board level.."

 

Aristotleded24

Are there any campaigns in Europe on this issue? I'm sure that European people would also be negatively affected. Plus given the "no" votes in France and the Netherlands 5 years ago shows that there is some latent resentment for how the EU was forced upon the European population, so there should be something there to exploit.

cruisin_turtle

I don't see how opening Canada's telecom sector could make it any worse than it is now!

The part about farm seed is a different story.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

CUPE, allies in Brussels to lobby on CETA

Jul 11, 2011 09:17 AM

Quote: The trade deal is being negotiated behind closed doors by the Harper government and EU officials.

Key issues are:

- increased pharmaceutical costs of $2.8 billion annually

- new corporate rights that override the public interest

- threats CETA poses to public water

- loss of democratic rights for municipal  and provincial governments especially with regard to public purchasing

The European Parliament recently passed a resolution on CETA, raising concerns about Canadian asbestos, Canada’s tar sands, and GMOs (genetically modified organisms), among other things.

The Trade Justice Network delegation has come to Europe (London, Brussels and Paris) to lobby Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) to meet with unions and civil society groups, and to monitor the negotiations. CETA threatens public services, environmental policy, Indigenous rights, municipal autonomy, farming and cultural policy, jobs and other important areas of social policy.

http://cupe.ca/privatization/cupe-allies-brussels-lobby-ceta

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

CUPE in Europe to raise concerns about CETA

Here’s a personal account of the first day of work in Brussels by CUPE senior officer Carol Ferguson and CUPE trade policy expert Blair Redlin.

CUPE's CETA journal

Hello from Brussels! Here we are in the home of the European Union, the very city where negotiating teams from Canada and the EU are hammering out who will get what in the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement or CETA, the deal people are calling the trade deal beyond NAFTA.

We are here because of the CETA negotiations, but although we aren’t at the negotiating table, we are monitoring what happens. There must be several hundred officials here in Brussels this week for the eighth round of CETA negotiations. Some of them shared our flight over from Ottawa. (Yes, I did try to eavesdrop.).....

http://cupe.ca/privatization/europe-raise-concerns-ceta

 

Aristotleded24

Maybe if Eurozone countries start defaulting in large numbers, the EU will go down in flames and the whole deal will be nullified anyways?

I can dream, can't I?

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Day 2: A long day of important meetings in Brussels

CUPE's CETA journal

Tuesday was a very busy day for the Trade Justice Network and RQIC delegation to the eighth round of CETA trade talks in Brussels.

The day began with an interesting meeting with trade specialists from the Austrian Federal Chamber of Labour (AK Europa). AK Europa has produced a large number of significant reports on E.U. trade policy for the Austrian labour movement, including proposals for CETA....

http://cupe.ca/privatization/day-3-day-meetings-brussels

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Day 3: European labour movement engages on CETA

Jul 14, 2011 09:12 AM

 

Day three in Brussels began with an early morning meeting with the provincial government negotiators for Ontario, Manitoba, Nova Scotia, Quebec, and Newfoundland – Labrador. This was an opportunity for the Trade Justice Network/RQIC delegation to raise concerns and pose questions about the status of key CETA issues such as pharmaceutical costs, water, labour standards, and the treatment of energy utilities like hydro.   

Blair Redlin and Carol Ferguson then joined Larry Brown (NUPGE) and Teresa Healy (CLC) at the International Trade Union House for meetings with sisters and brothers from the European and international labour movements.....

http://cupe.ca/privatization/day-3-european-labour-movement-engages

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Day 4: Getting the most out of public purchasing

Jul 15, 2011 06:32 AM

CUPE's CETA journal Day 4

The Trade Justice/RQIC delegation to the CETA talks wound up its work in Brussels on Thursday with a series of meetings related to particular aspects of the proposed deal.

Carol Ferguson and Blair Redlin of CUPE joined Teresa Healy as observers at a meeting on public purchasing hosted by Penny Clarke, EU Policy Director for the European Federation of Public Service Unions (EPSU). The Network for Sustainable Development in Public Procurement is a network of more than 20 unions, fair trade organizations and community groups advocating for the creation of good quality employment, quality services and environmental sustainability through public purchasing in Europe....

http://cupe.ca/privatization/day-4-getting-public-purchasing

 

ScotianGuy1981

The scarest thing of all is that according to the Canadian Constitution: all trade agreements are ratified by the Governor-General on the advice of the Governor-in-Council aka the Prime Minister or Minister of International Trade. Parliament is not even needed according to the Canadian Constitution. For all that is wrong with the United States, at least the Senate must ratify trade agreements. 

That's right once the deal is finally signed, the PM tells the GG to make it so and it is done! Not sure what is required on the European end for trade agreements. Does anyone know?

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Quote from eta: oops i mean #6

"Then, there are trade teams from every province and territory, here at the EU’s insistence, as most of what is on the table in this deal falls under provincial jurisdiction. (The EU doesn’t want to sign onto a deal only to find out later that provinces aren’t on board.) The EU has their negotiating team."

..a question might ask what part is the ndp playing from Man and NS in the overall acceptance of this ceta deal. why can't they just say “my province is not agreeing with this trade deal”? another could be can one argue that this is not just a conservative trade deal?

..i remember the MAI (Multilateral Agreement on Investment) secret negotiations back in the 90's and the torries revealing that the provinces were involved in those discussions back here in canada. at the time the ndp was in power in bc and i can't remember where else. anyway not a word to this day about those talks.

 

ScotianGuy1981

What is the ratification process with regards to CETA on the EU side of things? 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

does someone know the answer my question?

..i was wondering if there was anything preventing any provincial government from saying no our province will not agree to CETA?

Quote: Canada’s large federal team is led by chief negotiator Steve Verheul. Then, there are trade teams from every province and territory, here at the EU’s insistence, as most of what is on the table in this deal falls under provincial jurisdiction. (The EU doesn’t want to sign onto a deal only to find out later that provinces aren’t on board.) The EU has their negotiating team. And of course, all the teams have brought along their technical experts.

http://cupe.ca/privatization/europe-raise-concerns-ceta

 

ScotianGuy1981

It is looking like too much fear morgeling and not enough facts because there is limited access to the documents and few understand the trade agreement negolitition process. 

milo204

i agree, if we had a democratic government in canada, we'd have access to this info and the government would have workers directly involved in the process instead of just the CCCE and business groups, and keeping everything under wraps. 

the government doesn't even respond to direct questions about this topic.  Everything is kept hush hush because we all know it's going to further screw people just like all the other trade deals.  The requisite loss of jobs, rights and freedom is soon to follow.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..if we find that the provinces have the power to reject the deal it will automatically be easier to bring the whole deal to a stop.  it will be easier to pressure the provinces and the cities will be potential allies.

eta: i have emailed the question about provincial power over the deal to my mla. i will share the response once/if i get one.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/maude-barlow/2011/06/new-free-trade-deal... Barlow[/url] on CETA and other "free trade" deals.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture
Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Jim is great because he cuts to the chase.

One need only look to Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland to see how nice those Europeans will be if our economy falters and our banking systems have become semi-integrated with the Germans.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Greetings Shane Simpson:

I have been following the Ceta negotiations. As you may know CUPE sent a delegation to Europe recently to learn what it could. One of the CUPE delegate sent out a daily journal to which i refer to below. My question to you Shane..Is there anything preventing any provincial government from saying no our province will not agree to CETA?

....

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your email. While this is not directly my file I do know a bit about the issue. You are correct, there are aspects of CETA that deal directly with provincial jurisdiction and authority. On those matters it appears the BC Liberals are concurring with Prime Minister Harper. As the New Democrat Opposition we have taken the position that this agreement is not beneficial to the interests of British Columbians and should we form government before the deals are committed to, we will not be supportive. We will also debate this issue in the Legislature should we get the opportunity.

I hope that’s helpful to you. Thanks again for the email.

Regards,

Shane

Shane Simpson MLA Vancouver-Hastings

t: 604-775-2277 | f: 604-775-2352 | www.shanesimpson.ca

....

g'day shane:

thanks for the quick response. and appreciate the ndp position. does
this mean that the provincial government has the authority to say no to this deal thus preventing the negotiations from moving forward? this is an important question don't you think?

....

An important but hard question to answer. While the provinces can protect some issues it may be possible for creative negotiators to get around that. Hard to say without more information. But we could make it tougher no doubt.

Regards,

Shane

Shane Simpson MLA Vancouver-Hastings

t: 604-775-2277 | f: 604-775-2352 | www.shanesimpson.ca

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0... is the law as I understand it:

Quote:
Although competent to conclude treaties, the federal government can only enact legislation in relation to those treaties whose subject matter falls within the federal field of competence. If the treaty concerns matters within provincial legislative competence, the provincial legislatures must adopt the necessary implementing legislation. As a general practice, the federal government carries out prior consultation with those provinces that may be called upon to implement a treaty. The modern form of the federal state clause enables Canada to become a party to international conventions, such as the 1980 Hague Convention on International Child Abduction, and to designate the provinces to which the convention applies; in practice this means the provinces that have adopted the required implementing legislation. The wording of the clause enables Canada to file subsequent declarations extending the application of the convention to other provinces as soon as they pass implementing legislation.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..txs m. spector

ScotianGuy1981

The Colombia-Canada Free Trade Deal came into force on August 15th, that was a big day for the Governor-General. He appointed several diplomatic posts as well. That means a free trade deal was passed without Parliamentary approval, some democracy we live in!

Will the same happen with CETA, only the Governor-General's signature required once it has been signed by the PM and the head of the EU?

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Municipalities across Canada are requesting exemptions from CETA

Secret international trade deal places too many restrictions on local governments.

FRENCH RIVER, ON, March 20, 2012: Awareness about the Comprehensive Economic Trade Agreement (CETA) between Canada and the European Union is growing and opposition is mounting. There are currently 45 municipalities in the country that have passed — or are in the process of passing — resolutions on CETA, some seeking full exemptions from the agreement. In addition, six school boards and nationwide and province-wide municipal associations have passed similar resolutions. In total, about four million Canadian citizens are represented....

http://www.publicvalues.ca/ViewArticle.cfm?Ref=001178

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Mississauga Calls for Exemption from CETA Procurement Rules

Mississauga City Council is requesting from the Province of Ontario a permanent exemption from the restrictive procurement rules proposed in a new free trade deal between Canada and the European Union.

Earlier today, councillors voted unanimously in favour of this motion that was introduced following a presentation by the Brampton-Mississauga and District Labour Council.

The proposed EU-Canada Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement is arguably the most ambitious, far-reaching and potentially damaging trade deal in our country's history, said BMDLC Vice President Jim McDowell in his presentation to Council.

"Unlike the terms and conditions of the NAFTA, CETA negotiations specifically include Canadian provinces - and, through them, also aim to bind various Canadian municipalities. This is very concerning," McDowell said.

Proposed rules under the CETA would explicitly restrict the rights of municipal governments to enact procurement policies that promote local economic or social development and other tools to spur local development....

http://caw.ca/en/11095.htm

autoworker autoworker's picture

On the surface, it seems that Europeans have more to be concerned about. As usual, the devil is in the details-- but Canada does need greater access to the EU market. I wouldn't dismiss CETA out of hand.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

autoworker wrote:

On the surface, it seems that Europeans have more to be concerned about. As usual, the devil is in the details-- but Canada does need greater access to the EU market. I wouldn't dismiss CETA out of hand.

..the process is anti democratic, the corporations/banks are represented, the cons negotiating, europe negotiating austerity with piggs now us and the loss of autonomy at the local level. i'm curious as to how anything but a disaster can come from this? what are you seeing that i don't autoworker?

autoworker autoworker's picture

I see an opportunity for Canadian industry to compete against higher standards by taking advantage of our high dollar to recapitalize our manufacturing base with advanced machinery and process controls that will increase productivity necessary to maintain wages, pensions and benefits at current levels. It will also force Canada to get serious about climate change, as the EU will not ratify an agreement that vindicates the failure of Kyoto. Baby seals are problematic as well.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

I'd rather hear what your dog has to say. It's bound to make more sense than that.

autoworker autoworker's picture

M. Spector wrote:

I'd rather hear what your dog has to say. It's bound to make more sense than that.

My dog thinks you're a superannuated twit.

NDPP

CETA: Provinces Failing to Defend Themselves in Canada-EU Trade Negotiations, Says Lawyer

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/07/09/ceta-canada-eu-free-trade_n_1660...

Looks like you're in for a real good screwing again Canuckleheads..

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Communiqué - La Coalition Eau Secours, en collaboration avec ATTAC-Québec et les AmiEs de la Terre de Québec, interpelle le Parti québécois concernant l’accord de libre-échange Canada-Union européenne

Lors de la rencontre organisée par le ministre des Relations internationales, de la Francophonie et du Commerce extérieur, Jean-François Lisée, au sujet de l’Accord économique et commercial global (AÉCG) entre le Canada et l’Union européenne, le 5 octobre dernier, le négociateur en chef du Québec, Pierre-Marc Johnson, a confirmé que les services de l’eau sont toujours sur la table de négociation, malgré les demandes de nombreux groupes au pays pour les en retirer. Ainsi, la porte semble définitivement s’ouvrir pour permettre de plus en plus aux multinationales européennes d’obtenir des marchés publics dans le secteur de l’eau et de fournir leurs services lorsqu’une municipalité choisira la voie du privé.

La Coalition Eau Secours, ATTAC-Québec et les AmiEs de la Terre de Québec estiment qu’il n’existe aucun consensus au sein de la population québécoise en faveur d’une telle libéralisation qui imposera des règles commerciales strictes dont nous n’avons jamais débattu démocratiquement. Ils jugent également qu’une telle ouverture à la concurrence européenne est contraire tant au programme du Parti québécois qu’à la Politique nationale de l’eau. Ils demandent au Parti québécois d’exiger urgemment une exemption claire pour les services de l’eau potable et de traitements des eaux usées dans l’AÉCG.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Transatlantic Statement Opposing Excessive Corporate Rights (Investor-State Dispute Settlement) in the EU-Canada Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA)

Brussels, Ottawa and Montreal – Labour, environmental, Indigenous, women’s, academic, health sector and fair trade organizations from Europe, Canada and Quebec representing more than 65 million people are demanding that Canada and the EU stop negotiating an excessive and controversial investor rights chapter in the proposed Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA). The groups issued a joint statement today ahead of a two-day meeting in Ottawa between European Trade Commissioner Karel De Gucht and Canadian International Trade Minister Ed Fast, where the two hope to move the CETA negotiations forward if not to conclude an agreement.

“We will vigorously oppose any transatlantic agreement that compromises our democracies, human and Indigenous rights, and our right to protect our health and the planet,” says the transatlantic statement, endorsed by more than 70 organizations. “We urge the EU and Canadian governments to follow the lead of the Australian government by stopping the practice of including investor-state dispute settlement in their trade and investment agreements, and to open the door to a broad re-writing of trade and investment policy to balance out corporate interests against the greater public interest.”

Full statement (PDF)

http://tradejustice.ca/en/section/1


Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Open letter to Thomas Mulcair: Maintain NDP's opposition to 'trade' deals like CETA

Not sure why this is necessary - I've seen no indication whatsoever that Mulcair will back CETA.

Anyone?

Maybe I've been slacking too much and haven't been paying attention?

ygtbk

Boom Boom wrote:

Open letter to Thomas Mulcair: Maintain NDP's opposition to 'trade' deals like CETA

Not sure why this is necessary - I've seen no indication whatsoever that Mulcair will back CETA.

Anyone?

Maybe I've been slacking too much and haven't been paying attention?

I think this might be the story that you're looking for:

http://www.canada.com/business/Mulcair%2Bponders%2Bsupport%2BCanada%2BEu...

According to the article, Barlow and Lewenza, amongst others, are not happy that he might support a deal. I think a lot of emphasis on "might" is warranted here, because any deal will undoubtedly have a lot to criticize in it. 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Thanks, ygtbk - don't know how I missed that one. Frown

Mulcair ponders support for Canada-Europe pact 

Federal NDP leader adopts moderate tone at the risk of alienating strident members of his caucus

The Vancouver Sun just had to get that word "strident" in there, didn't they? Ah, well.

Mulcair's comments raised eyebrows in a Canadian union movement that, only last week, joined other Canadian and European labour and environmental groups to denounce expected Canada-EU concessions to major multinational corporations.

But Mulcair's statements are part of a long-term strategy, evident under the late Jack Layton, to gradually moderate the NDP's position.

Mulcair is attempting to position himself as a credible candidate in 2015 to be Canada's next prime minister, noted University of B.C. political scientist Philip Resnick.

If Mulcair is serious about embracing free trade - and several insiders say privately that he is - he'll have to keep onside several key caucus members who come from groups that have fought tooth and nail, without success, to defeat trade pacts like the North American Free Trade Agreement.

Among those most likely to object are high-profile Vancouver-East MP Libby Davies, usually considered the leader of the party's left wing in caucus, and Peter Julian, former executive director of a strongly anti-trade-deal organization, the Council of Canadians. Finance critic Peggy Nash, meanwhile, is a former senior official with the Canadian Auto Workers, which is bitterly critical of some of the elements expected to be included in the Canada-EU trade agreement.

Holy sh*t. Frown

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

the article continues....

But both Lewenza and Barlow acknowledged that Mulcair is challenged by Harper's portrayal of the party as a band of untrustworthy, anti-business, anti-trade socialists.

The UBC's Resnick and retired political scientist Alan Whitehorn, an author of numerous books on the NDP, say Mulcair could survive supporting a Canada-EU deal because those most hostile to free trade deals are unlikely to support the Liberals or Harper's Tories.

"If Mulcair pursues the mushy middle, where do the left-nationalists go? There's not a lot of choice," Whitehorn said.

- snip -

Barlow acknowledged that the Canadian left, even if it was frustrated by a major trade reversal, wouldn't abandon the party if it was seen to have a chance of forming government.

"This is the worst government we've ever had in this country - the most right-wing, anti-democratic, anti-environment, anti-human rights government ever - and we need to get rid of them."

I'm still digesting all of this, but I sort of agree - with misgivings - that it's worth supporting the NDP at all costs just to get rid of Harper.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Great we are already into the lesser of evils arguments.  The political numbers have never shown that the majority of Canadians would vote for a socialist party.  The people who wanted that perspective heard in our body politic are now on the sidelines as the centrists discard all those outdated leftie ideas.  Fuck I was an idiot to work for decades to have socialist and anti war ideas discussed in the public realm.  I could have just been a Liberal  organizer instead and got some perks out of the game of power politics.  I think the NDP and Liberals should merge and call themselves the We're Not Harper Party.  After all that is the only goal being put forward.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I totally agree that it's a sad, dismal situation. But what can else can anyone do with FPTP and four opposition parties?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

The Liberals have been saying that the NDP should fold up its tent and join theirs since Mulroney.  That sounds good to me since that might leave some room for a party on the environmental left to develop.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Well, if nothing changes between now and 2015, it's hard to see the Cons not getting another majority. Frown

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Canada-EU trade deal: No time for NDP to show moderation

NDP Leader Thomas Mulcair’s “wait-and-see” approach to the Canada-European Union trade deal is dangerous, not moderate.

quote:

Canada’s experience with other free-trade agreements belies the myth that a free-trade agreement with the European Union could somehow reverse an already imbalanced trade relationship. According to economist Jim Stanford, CETA could expose Canadians to an even greater trade deficit and lead to the loss of as many as 152,000 jobs. CETA also grants rights to corporations that jeopardize the powers of Canadian governments at every level.

Such concerns are echoed by environmental organizations, labour unions, civil society groups and a growing number of researchers and experts. In fact, Council of Canadians Chairperson Maude Barlow has been at the forefront of opposing CETA’s threat to water, education and other public services, and more than 80 municipalities and school boards have expressed concern, with more than 40 demanding to be exempt. Even a UN envoy this week signalled that this agreement would undermine the ability for Canada to support local economies and address poverty and hunger....

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2013/03/07/canadaeu_trade_deal...

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Jesus Christ. What fucking benefit is CETA, if any??? Are the Cons really so fucking blind they are going to go for this?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

BB these deals benefit the 0.1%.  They are negotiated with corporate lawyers on both sides of the table and surprise surprise only corporations benefit. The fact that Mulcair either doesn't understand that or has no problem with it is one of the reasons I will not vote for them in the next election.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Here is a good article about the "benefits" of NAFTA twenty years out.  For those of us that have fought these agreements for that long the betrayal of the NDP cuts very deep. Mulcair has never publicly opposed them and now his view is the party policy without any member input.  Being a member of the NDP gives one the right to be spammed incessantly for money and that is all.

Quote:

Three nations, no winners

In the past 10 years, Canada has lost 500,000 manufacturing jobs. A new United Way Toronto report found that in and around Toronto, Canada's largest city, 20 per cent of people are now employed in precarious, unstable or part-time jobs. This type of employment has increased by 50 per cent in the past 20 years since NAFTA was signed. In this same period, not a single notable social program has been introduced or expanded. Free trade has permanently eroded our sense of what people can do together for the common good.

Canada is also facing over $2.5-billion worth of legal suites by corporations that are permitted to sue countries under NAFTA for potential profits if blocked by health and safety or environmental laws from conducting business as usual. Current suits include a U.S. corporation challenging a moratorium on natural gas fracking in Quebec, a court decision to annul a patent by Eli Lilly, a decision against opening a new gravel quarry in Ontario because of the likely effect on water and farmland, and many others "coming down the pipeline."

...

Next generation of handcuffs

Next generation corporate trade deals like the TPP and the proposed "comprehensive" pacts that Canada, the U.S. and Mexico are pursuing with the European Union, purposely take away our ability to pursue alternative economic strategies. These deals are designed to ensure that governments have no power in the economy, and that they are only useful when they are using tax payer dollars to bail out large banks and other corporations.

Like NAFTA, the TPP will handcuff our ability to set regulations in key areas like finance, industry, the environment, public procurement and fostering programs to create jobs at home. Free trade offers corporate subsidies for the rich and cut-throat competition for everyone else. So it should come as no surprise that communities across the continent and the Western Hemisphere are mobilizing in what can be expected as the battle against the TPP.

http://www.rabble.ca/babble/international-news-and-politics/ceta-coming-...

Aristotleded24

Boom Boom wrote:
"If Mulcair pursues the mushy middle, where do the left-nationalists go? There's not a lot of choice," Whitehorn said.

- snip -

Barlow acknowledged that the Canadian left, even if it was frustrated by a major trade reversal, wouldn't abandon the party if it was seen to have a chance of forming government.

"This is the worst government we've ever had in this country - the most right-wing, anti-democratic, anti-environment, anti-human rights government ever - and we need to get rid of them."

I'm still digesting all of this, but I sort of agree - with misgivings - that it's worth supporting the NDP at all costs just to get rid of Harper.

It's not quite true that left nationalists have nowhere else to go. A section of the Green Party page is about fighting the Trans-Pacific Partnership, and you don't see that on the NDP webpage. Okay, so NDP MPs like Peter Julian have been fighting these deals, and thus are more known without the publicity, that's fine. But to not say anything, and to especially support these agreements, that gives an opening for the Greens to try and earn the support of these people. Obviously not enough to make the Greens a major contender, but if enough people for whom these trade agreements are important support the Greens over the NDP in enough key ridings, that could very easily hinder the party's chances of forming government. And the "lesser evil" argument may not even work, because these are voters who would have refused to support the Liberals to Stop Harper because their principles were more important. Same way many of us voted NDP when the Liberals were the second party.

Even setting aside the principle of the question, the NDP supporting the trade agreements is bad politics.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Aristotleded24 wrote:

And the "lesser evil" argument may not even work, because these are voters who would have refused to support the Liberals to Stop Harper because their principles were more important. Same way many of us voted NDP when the Liberals were the second party.

The Liberals have always used the lesser of evils argument to try to get people like you and I to vote for them to remove Mulroney and stop Stockwell.  If there is no party that runs on my principles then none will get my vote.  My principles on free trade and peace have not changed but the NDP's have.  The NDP had gambled that they can piss off their left wing to get small l liberal support.  They may yet pay dearly for that as small l liberal voters get caught up in the Big Hair contest and go back to their normal voting pattern.

The Orange Wave was primarily a Quebec phenomenon and Tom looks like he will not hold all his gains there.  If they also lose the left in other parts of Canada then they have no room to grow.

Aristotleded24

kropotkin1951 wrote:
The Liberals have always used the lesser of evils argument to try to get people like you and I to vote for them to remove Mulroney and stop Stockwell.  If there is no party that runs on my principles then none will get my vote.  My principles on free trade and peace have not changed but the NDP's have.  The NDP had gambled that they can piss off their left wing to get small l liberal support.  They may yet pay dearly for that as small l liberal voters get caught up in the Big Hair contest and go back to their normal voting pattern.

And I'm sure you can remember when voter turn-outs were, on average, higher than they are now. It's not even necessarily a matter of being "left-wing," but of standing up for your principles. That's why racist movements in Europe do well in the polls, because they are willing to defend their principles no matter how socially unacceptable they are. When I talk to people about politics, there is a general sense of, "they're all the same," "they're all crooks and liars," etc. And they have a point. Why bother voting if the main decisions have already been made?

Surely this cannot be lost on someone as intelligent as Thomas Mulcair. I have to ask, for his own self-interest sake, does he even want to be Prime Minister? Or is he part of some crazy plan to ensure that certain political ideas never get implemented? Let me put on my tin foil hat for a minute....

Aristotleded24

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccnwcLp1UjI]Ed Broadbent speaks about the impact that free trade has had on Canada[/url]

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