babble-intro-img
babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.

CETA is Coming Are You Scared Yet

kropotkin1951
Offline
Joined: Jun 6 2002

Money mouth Tongue out Yell


Comments

kropotkin1951
Offline
Joined: Jun 6 2002

I listened to the CBC News this morning where in the newscast they made it sound like this was the greatest thing ever.  Here is what is coming if we don't fight back hard enough.

Quote:

Alarming proposals

Controversial provisions in the draft text would open Canada’s telecommunications sector to full foreign ownership, stop municipal governments from implementing local or ethical procurement strategies and require a burdensome necessity test for prudential financial measures designed to help governments mitigate or avoid banking and financial crises.

The text also presents a direct attack on Ontario’s Green Energy Act, and would virtually eliminate the rights of farmers to save, reuse and sell seed, thus handing biotech, pharmaceutical, pesticide, seed and grain companies powerful new tools to essentially decide who should farm and how.

"Canadian negotiators have also included a controversial investor-state dispute mechanism like the one in NAFTA," Brown says.

"NAFTA's Chapter 11 dispute process has allowed and encouraged large multinationals to sue North American governments for compensation against public health and environmental policies that limit corporate profits."

http://www.nupge.ca/content/trade-justice-network-releases-leaked-draft-canada-eu-trade-agreement

 


NDPP
Online
Joined: Dec 27 2008

Say No to CETA - Canada - European Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement

http://canadians.org/trade/issues/EU/index.html

"Canada and the European Unon are negotiating a 'comprehensive' free trade agreement that for the first time involves the provinces at the table. That's because European negotiators, acting on behalf of Europe's largest corporations are looking for better access than American companies got in NAFTA - right down to the city and school board level.."

 


Aristotleded24
Offline
Joined: May 24 2005

Are there any campaigns in Europe on this issue? I'm sure that European people would also be negatively affected. Plus given the "no" votes in France and the Netherlands 5 years ago shows that there is some latent resentment for how the EU was forced upon the European population, so there should be something there to exploit.


cruisin_turtle
Offline
Joined: Jun 28 2010

I don't see how opening Canada's telecom sector could make it any worse than it is now!

The part about farm seed is a different story.


epaulo13
Online
Joined: Dec 13 2009
CUPE, allies in Brussels to lobby on CETA

Jul 11, 2011 09:17 AM

Quote: The trade deal is being negotiated behind closed doors by the Harper government and EU officials.

Key issues are:

- increased pharmaceutical costs of $2.8 billion annually

- new corporate rights that override the public interest

- threats CETA poses to public water

- loss of democratic rights for municipal  and provincial governments especially with regard to public purchasing

The European Parliament recently passed a resolution on CETA, raising concerns about Canadian asbestos, Canada’s tar sands, and GMOs (genetically modified organisms), among other things.

The Trade Justice Network delegation has come to Europe (London, Brussels and Paris) to lobby Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) to meet with unions and civil society groups, and to monitor the negotiations. CETA threatens public services, environmental policy, Indigenous rights, municipal autonomy, farming and cultural policy, jobs and other important areas of social policy.

http://cupe.ca/privatization/cupe-allies-brussels-lobby-ceta


epaulo13
Online
Joined: Dec 13 2009
CUPE in Europe to raise concerns about CETA

Here’s a personal account of the first day of work in Brussels by CUPE senior officer Carol Ferguson and CUPE trade policy expert Blair Redlin.

CUPE's CETA journal

Hello from Brussels! Here we are in the home of the European Union, the very city where negotiating teams from Canada and the EU are hammering out who will get what in the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement or CETA, the deal people are calling the trade deal beyond NAFTA.

We are here because of the CETA negotiations, but although we aren’t at the negotiating table, we are monitoring what happens. There must be several hundred officials here in Brussels this week for the eighth round of CETA negotiations. Some of them shared our flight over from Ottawa. (Yes, I did try to eavesdrop.).....

http://cupe.ca/privatization/europe-raise-concerns-ceta

 


epaulo13
Online
Joined: Dec 13 2009
Day 2: A long day of important meetings in Brussels

CUPE's CETA journal

Tuesday was a very busy day for the Trade Justice Network and RQIC delegation to the eighth round of CETA trade talks in Brussels.

The day began with an interesting meeting with trade specialists from the Austrian Federal Chamber of Labour (AK Europa). AK Europa has produced a large number of significant reports on E.U. trade policy for the Austrian labour movement, including proposals for CETA....

http://cupe.ca/privatization/day-3-day-meetings-brussels


Aristotleded24
Offline
Joined: May 24 2005

Maybe if Eurozone countries start defaulting in large numbers, the EU will go down in flames and the whole deal will be nullified anyways?

I can dream, can't I?


epaulo13
Online
Joined: Dec 13 2009

Quote from eta: oops i mean #6

"Then, there are trade teams from every province and territory, here at the EU’s insistence, as most of what is on the table in this deal falls under provincial jurisdiction. (The EU doesn’t want to sign onto a deal only to find out later that provinces aren’t on board.) The EU has their negotiating team."

..a question might ask what part is the ndp playing from Man and NS in the overall acceptance of this ceta deal. why can't they just say “my province is not agreeing with this trade deal”? another could be can one argue that this is not just a conservative trade deal?

..i remember the MAI (Multilateral Agreement on Investment) secret negotiations back in the 90's and the torries revealing that the provinces were involved in those discussions back here in canada. at the time the ndp was in power in bc and i can't remember where else. anyway not a word to this day about those talks.

 


epaulo13
Online
Joined: Dec 13 2009
Day 3: European labour movement engages on CETA

Jul 14, 2011 09:12 AM

 

Day three in Brussels began with an early morning meeting with the provincial government negotiators for Ontario, Manitoba, Nova Scotia, Quebec, and Newfoundland – Labrador. This was an opportunity for the Trade Justice Network/RQIC delegation to raise concerns and pose questions about the status of key CETA issues such as pharmaceutical costs, water, labour standards, and the treatment of energy utilities like hydro.   

Blair Redlin and Carol Ferguson then joined Larry Brown (NUPGE) and Teresa Healy (CLC) at the International Trade Union House for meetings with sisters and brothers from the European and international labour movements.....

http://cupe.ca/privatization/day-3-european-labour-movement-engages

epaulo13
Online
Joined: Dec 13 2009
Day 4: Getting the most out of public purchasing

Jul 15, 2011 06:32 AM

CUPE's CETA journal Day 4

The Trade Justice/RQIC delegation to the CETA talks wound up its work in Brussels on Thursday with a series of meetings related to particular aspects of the proposed deal.

Carol Ferguson and Blair Redlin of CUPE joined Teresa Healy as observers at a meeting on public purchasing hosted by Penny Clarke, EU Policy Director for the European Federation of Public Service Unions (EPSU). The Network for Sustainable Development in Public Procurement is a network of more than 20 unions, fair trade organizations and community groups advocating for the creation of good quality employment, quality services and environmental sustainability through public purchasing in Europe....

http://cupe.ca/privatization/day-4-getting-public-purchasing

 


ScotianGuy1981
Offline
Joined: Jun 6 2011

The scarest thing of all is that according to the Canadian Constitution: all trade agreements are ratified by the Governor-General on the advice of the Governor-in-Council aka the Prime Minister or Minister of International Trade. Parliament is not even needed according to the Canadian Constitution. For all that is wrong with the United States, at least the Senate must ratify trade agreements. 

That's right once the deal is finally signed, the PM tells the GG to make it so and it is done! Not sure what is required on the European end for trade agreements. Does anyone know?

 


ScotianGuy1981
Offline
Joined: Jun 6 2011

What is the ratification process with regards to CETA on the EU side of things? 


epaulo13
Online
Joined: Dec 13 2009

does someone know the answer my question?

..i was wondering if there was anything preventing any provincial government from saying no our province will not agree to CETA?

Quote: Canada’s large federal team is led by chief negotiator Steve Verheul. Then, there are trade teams from every province and territory, here at the EU’s insistence, as most of what is on the table in this deal falls under provincial jurisdiction. (The EU doesn’t want to sign onto a deal only to find out later that provinces aren’t on board.) The EU has their negotiating team. And of course, all the teams have brought along their technical experts.

http://cupe.ca/privatization/europe-raise-concerns-ceta

 


ScotianGuy1981
Offline
Joined: Jun 6 2011

It is looking like too much fear morgeling and not enough facts because there is limited access to the documents and few understand the trade agreement negolitition process. 


milo204
Offline
Joined: Feb 3 2010

i agree, if we had a democratic government in canada, we'd have access to this info and the government would have workers directly involved in the process instead of just the CCCE and business groups, and keeping everything under wraps. 

the government doesn't even respond to direct questions about this topic.  Everything is kept hush hush because we all know it's going to further screw people just like all the other trade deals.  The requisite loss of jobs, rights and freedom is soon to follow.


epaulo13
Online
Joined: Dec 13 2009

..if we find that the provinces have the power to reject the deal it will automatically be easier to bring the whole deal to a stop.  it will be easier to pressure the provinces and the cities will be potential allies.

eta: i have emailed the question about provincial power over the deal to my mla. i will share the response once/if i get one.


M. Spector
Offline
Joined: Feb 19 2005

Maude Barlow on CETA and other "free trade" deals.


laine lowe
Offline
Joined: Dec 15 2006

Northern Shoveler
Offline
Joined: Feb 17 2011

Jim is great because he cuts to the chase.

One need only look to Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland to see how nice those Europeans will be if our economy falters and our banking systems have become semi-integrated with the Germans.


epaulo13
Online
Joined: Dec 13 2009

Greetings Shane Simpson:

I have been following the Ceta negotiations. As you may know CUPE sent a delegation to Europe recently to learn what it could. One of the CUPE delegate sent out a daily journal to which i refer to below. My question to you Shane..Is there anything preventing any provincial government from saying no our province will not agree to CETA?

....

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your email. While this is not directly my file I do know a bit about the issue. You are correct, there are aspects of CETA that deal directly with provincial jurisdiction and authority. On those matters it appears the BC Liberals are concurring with Prime Minister Harper. As the New Democrat Opposition we have taken the position that this agreement is not beneficial to the interests of British Columbians and should we form government before the deals are committed to, we will not be supportive. We will also debate this issue in the Legislature should we get the opportunity.

I hope that’s helpful to you. Thanks again for the email.

Regards,

Shane

Shane Simpson MLA Vancouver-Hastings

t: 604-775-2277 | f: 604-775-2352 | www.shanesimpson.ca

....

g'day shane:

thanks for the quick response. and appreciate the ndp position. does
this mean that the provincial government has the authority to say no to this deal thus preventing the negotiations from moving forward? this is an important question don't you think?

....

An important but hard question to answer. While the provinces can protect some issues it may be possible for creative negotiators to get around that. Hard to say without more information. But we could make it tougher no doubt.

Regards,

Shane

Shane Simpson MLA Vancouver-Hastings

t: 604-775-2277 | f: 604-775-2352 | www.shanesimpson.ca


M. Spector
Offline
Joined: Feb 19 2005

This is the law as I understand it:

Quote:
Although competent to conclude treaties, the federal government can only enact legislation in relation to those treaties whose subject matter falls within the federal field of competence. If the treaty concerns matters within provincial legislative competence, the provincial legislatures must adopt the necessary implementing legislation. As a general practice, the federal government carries out prior consultation with those provinces that may be called upon to implement a treaty. The modern form of the federal state clause enables Canada to become a party to international conventions, such as the 1980 Hague Convention on International Child Abduction, and to designate the provinces to which the convention applies; in practice this means the provinces that have adopted the required implementing legislation. The wording of the clause enables Canada to file subsequent declarations extending the application of the convention to other provinces as soon as they pass implementing legislation.


epaulo13
Online
Joined: Dec 13 2009

..txs m. spector


ScotianGuy1981
Offline
Joined: Jun 6 2011

The Colombia-Canada Free Trade Deal came into force on August 15th, that was a big day for the Governor-General. He appointed several diplomatic posts as well. That means a free trade deal was passed without Parliamentary approval, some democracy we live in!

Will the same happen with CETA, only the Governor-General's signature required once it has been signed by the PM and the head of the EU?


epaulo13
Online
Joined: Dec 13 2009

Municipalities across Canada are requesting exemptions from CETA

Secret international trade deal places too many restrictions on local governments.

FRENCH RIVER, ON, March 20, 2012: Awareness about the Comprehensive Economic Trade Agreement (CETA) between Canada and the European Union is growing and opposition is mounting. There are currently 45 municipalities in the country that have passed — or are in the process of passing — resolutions on CETA, some seeking full exemptions from the agreement. In addition, six school boards and nationwide and province-wide municipal associations have passed similar resolutions. In total, about four million Canadian citizens are represented....

http://www.publicvalues.ca/ViewArticle.cfm?Ref=001178


epaulo13
Online
Joined: Dec 13 2009
Mississauga Calls for Exemption from CETA Procurement Rules

Mississauga City Council is requesting from the Province of Ontario a permanent exemption from the restrictive procurement rules proposed in a new free trade deal between Canada and the European Union.

Earlier today, councillors voted unanimously in favour of this motion that was introduced following a presentation by the Brampton-Mississauga and District Labour Council.

The proposed EU-Canada Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement is arguably the most ambitious, far-reaching and potentially damaging trade deal in our country's history, said BMDLC Vice President Jim McDowell in his presentation to Council.

"Unlike the terms and conditions of the NAFTA, CETA negotiations specifically include Canadian provinces - and, through them, also aim to bind various Canadian municipalities. This is very concerning," McDowell said.

Proposed rules under the CETA would explicitly restrict the rights of municipal governments to enact procurement policies that promote local economic or social development and other tools to spur local development....

http://caw.ca/en/11095.htm


autoworker
Offline
Joined: Dec 21 2008

On the surface, it seems that Europeans have more to be concerned about. As usual, the devil is in the details-- but Canada does need greater access to the EU market. I wouldn't dismiss CETA out of hand.


epaulo13
Online
Joined: Dec 13 2009

autoworker wrote:

On the surface, it seems that Europeans have more to be concerned about. As usual, the devil is in the details-- but Canada does need greater access to the EU market. I wouldn't dismiss CETA out of hand.

..the process is anti democratic, the corporations/banks are represented, the cons negotiating, europe negotiating austerity with piggs now us and the loss of autonomy at the local level. i'm curious as to how anything but a disaster can come from this? what are you seeing that i don't autoworker?


autoworker
Offline
Joined: Dec 21 2008

I see an opportunity for Canadian industry to compete against higher standards by taking advantage of our high dollar to recapitalize our manufacturing base with advanced machinery and process controls that will increase productivity necessary to maintain wages, pensions and benefits at current levels. It will also force Canada to get serious about climate change, as the EU will not ratify an agreement that vindicates the failure of Kyoto. Baby seals are problematic as well.


M. Spector
Offline
Joined: Feb 19 2005

I'd rather hear what your dog has to say. It's bound to make more sense than that.


Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or register to post comments