Charlottesville Virginia :Car Plows Into Anti-Fascist Protesters

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josh

alan smithee wrote:

Poll : 25% of Americans say they will support Trump no matter what

http://www.sfgate.com/elections/article/Poll-finds-a-quarter-of-American...

It's time to write off a segment of the population. They view Trump as their Dear Leader and like any cult will not defy their Grand Wizard.

They cannot be deterred and feel the need to have an authoritarian to lead them as the only means of protecting their 'freedom'

Fuck them. Forget about them and don't waste energy trying to get through to them.

That's not suprising.  That's about the same number who supported Nixon at the bitter end.

MegB

Glad to see the thread back on track. If that interpersonal shitstorm starts up again I'm going to have to close this thread. And that would be a sad thing to see.

voice of the damned

NorthReport wrote:
Montreal has a long historical link to America's confederate past
">https://news.google.ca/news/amp?caurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmontrealgazette.com%2...

Report, that link doesn't work for me. I assume this was it? 

http://tinyurl.com/y8re9zob

For an overview of Britain's general relationship with the Confederacy, it's hard to beat Karl Marx. With the caveat that he was pretty close(though not quite) to being a paid Union propagandist. 

http://tinyurl.com/n8p5edn

 

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

The Monuments Must Go: An Open Letter From Great, Great Grandsons of Stonewall Jackson

Full text of letter from William and Warren Christian, the great, great grandsons of Confederate Gen. Stonewall Jackson to Richmond Mayor Levar Stoney and Members of the Monument Avenue Commission.

To see Democracy Now!’s exclusive interview with William and Warren Christian about their letter, click here.

Dear Mayor Stoney and Members of the Monument Avenue Commission,

We are native Richmonders and also the great, great grandsons of Stonewall Jackson. As two of the closest living relatives to Stonewall, we are writing today to ask for the removal of his statue, as well as the removal of all Confederate statues from Monument Avenue. They are overt symbols of racism and white supremacy, and the time is long overdue for them to depart from public display. Overnight, Baltimore has seen fit to take this action. Richmond should, too.

In making this request, we wish to express our respect and admiration for Mayor Stoney’s leadership while also strongly disagreeing with his claim that “removal of symbols does [nothing] for telling the actual truth [nor] changes the state and culture of racism in this country today.” In our view, the removal of the Jackson statue and others will necessarily further difficult conversations about racial justice. It will begin to tell the truth of us all coming to our senses.

Last weekend, Charlottesville showed us unequivocally that Confederate statues offer pre-existing iconography for racists. The people who descended on Charlottesville last weekend were there to make a naked show of force for white supremacy. To them, the Robert E. Lee statue is a clear symbol of their hateful ideology. The Confederate statues on Monument Avenue are, too — especially Jackson, who faces North, supposedly as if to continue the fight.....

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Meet the College Student Who Pulled Down a Confederate Statue in Durham & Defied White Supremacy

quote:

AMY GOODMAN: So, your governor is saying these monuments should come down. You just took one down. He says, though, there’s a better way. Your response, Takiyah?

TAKIYAH THOMPSON: Yes, yeah, yeah. My problem with his initial statement was that he’s like, you know, "There’s no place for racism," and then he goes on to say, "But there’s a better way." And if there was a better way, we wouldn’t have been waiting almost a hundred years to do that. And like I’ve been trying to reiterate over and over again is that there is no "but" when we’re talking about racism, right? There is no "but" when we’re talking about people’s right to life and people’s right to not be psychologically attacked with these dehumanizing images. So, there’s only a right side and a wrong side. But I’m glad he did release that statement, and I’ll let him breathe.

..eta: this let him breath was not meant as a threat but to give him space. 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Bree Newsome: Charlottesville is Latest Chapter in Long U.S. History of White Supremacist Terror

quote:

BREE NEWSOME: I mean, again, I just continue to emphasize to people that this is not new. This is a—this is part of a long history and a pattern of white supremacist terrorism in this country. I think part of what people are struggling right now—struggling with right now is recognizing that it is terrorism, for whatever reason. But the reality is that the greatest terrorist threat in the United States is and has always been from white nationalists and white supremacists.

Heather Heyer, her death is part of a tragic and long history of white allies who were standing with black activists fighting for justice, who lost their lives, who were killed by white supremacists. Of course, one of the most famous cases was the case of Chaney, Goodman and Schwerner, three civil rights workers who traveled to Mississippi in 1964 to register black citizens there to vote. And they went missing, and they were—their bodies were discovered several days later, and it, you know, became clear that they had been murdered by the Ku Klux Klan, working in collaboration with police.

You know, so, again, this whole question about, you know, is it terror, is it not terror, that is a question that should no longer be asked. It absolutely is terrorism, by every definition. Not only are these acts of violence that are intended to cause terror, but they are also politically informed. It is people using terrorism as a tactic to push an ideology. There is absolutely no moral difference between a white supremacist plowing his car into a crowd of unarmed protesters to advance an ideology and someone who is inspired by ISIS plowing their car into a crowd on a street in Germany for the same reasons, to drive home some ideology that they believe in. There’s no difference. It is terrorism. It should be labeled as such. It should be dealt with as such. It should be investigated as such.

Not only should, you know, people like Dylann Roof and the terrorists from Saturday be charged and prosecuted, but there needs to be an investigation of these networks. How far do they go? How far into the power structure do they reach? We know that one of the closest advisers to the president runs a—or used to run a news platform that he described as being a platform for the alt-right. The alt-right, that term was coined by Richard Spencer, who we saw on Saturday pressing up against the police line with shields. I mean, it just reaches a certain point where, you know, asking certain questions are ridiculous, and it’s just time to deal in reality.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..democracy now has been doing some great reporting. exploring issues and i believe learning while doing so. here is an example with video or transcript. well worth the time to listen or read.

Antifa: A Look at the Anti-Fascist Movement Confronting White Supremacists in the Streets

quote:

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And what do you say, for instance, to those who maybe are opposed to the viewpoints of the white nationalists and white supremacists, but also attempt to condemn any attempts to shut them—shut them down or not allow them to speak? Or—and, obviously, the American Civil Liberties Union fought for the right of the Charlottesville—the white nationalists to have their rally in Charlottesville.

MARK BRAY: Right. Well, the question of how to combat fascism, I think, always needs to come back to discussions of the 1930s and 1940s. So, clearly, we can see that rational discourse and debate was insufficient. Clearly, we can see that the mechanisms of parliamentary government were insufficient. We need to be able to come up with a way to say, "How can we make sure never again?" By any means necessary, this can never happen again. And the people back there who witnessed these atrocities committed themselves to that.

So the question is: OK, if you don’t think that it’s appropriate to physically confront and to stand in front of neo-Nazis who are trying to organize for another genocide now, do you do it after someone has died, as they just did? Do you do it after a dozen people have died? Do you do it once they’re at the footsteps of power? At what point? At what point do you say, "Enough is enough," and give up on the liberal notion that what we need to do is essentially create some sort of a regime of rights that allow neo-Nazis and their victims to coexist, quote-unquote, "peacefully," and recognize that the neo-Nazis don’t want that and that also the anti-fascists are right in not looking at it through that liberal lens, but rather seeing fascism not as an opinion that needs to be responded to respectfully, but as an enemy to humanity that needs to be stopped by any means necessary?

Part 2 || Antifa:

Rev Pesky

I'll just post a link here to a pamphlet written by Leon Trotsky at the time of the rise of the Fascists in Germany. Some parts don't apply simply because the Fascists are still a small minority in the USA. However, many parts of Trotsky's analysis still apply, particularly his analysis of the Stalinist CP reaction to events in Germany.

Fascism: What it is and how to fight it.

The fascist movement in Italy was a spontaneous movement of large masses, with new leaders from the rank and file. It is a plebian movement in origin, directed and financed by big capitalist powers. It issued forth from the petty bourgeoisie, the slum proletariat, and even to a certain extent from the proletarian masses; Mussolini, a former socialist, is a "self-made" man arising from this movement.

...The genuine basis (for fascism) is the petty bourgeoisie. In italy, it has a very large base -- the petty bourgeoisie of the towns and cities, and the peasantry. In Germany, likewise, there is a large base for fascism....

The very rich are okay, the very poor are demoralized. Fascism finds it's supporters amongst those who saw themselves as middle class, and see their position sliding away. With no credible left in the USA, those disaffected elements find themselves casting about for someone to blame. No surprise that someone like Trump finds a way to use their fear to build a political career.

Fortunately, for now, they are a tiny minority. That may not always be the case. As the USA slides into permanent depression, the desire for a 'strong' leader can only increase.  

 

NDPP

Nation Rallies Around Ronald McDonald Statue That Embodies Country's True Heritage

https://t.co/CvwFEyDDVj

 

TJDS: What People Are Missing About Charlottesville Protest

https://youtu.be/AaO4Bv6Rzb0

"This is the game...."

Rev Pesky

Well, I was half right. I said either Bannon or Kelly would have to go after the interview Bannon gave the other day. I put my money on Kelly, but it's Bannon who is gone.

Bannon leaves Trump's Whitehouse

Chief strategist Steve Bannon's days in the White House are over, it has been confirmed.

..."White House Chief of Staff John Kelly and Steve Bannon have mutually agreed today would be Steve's last day," White House spokesperson Sarah Sanders said in a statement. "We are grateful for his service and wish him the best."

...Bannon becomes the latest departure amid a number of resignations and firings in the first seven months of the Trump administration. They include:

  • Sally Yates, acting attorney general.
  • Michael Flynn, national security adviser.
  • James Comey, FBI director.
  • Mike Dubke, communications director.
  • Sean Spicer, press secretary.
  • Reince Priebus, chief of staff.
  • Anthony Scaramucci, communications director.
  • Josh Pitcock, vice-president's chief of staff.
  • Walter Shaub, head of the office on government ethics.

I think Randy Newman wrote this song for Trump

I've been around the world
Had my pick of any girl
You'd think I'd be happy
But I'm not
Ev'rybody knows my name
But it's just a crazy game
Oh it's lonely at the top

Listen to the band they're playing just for me
Listen to the people paying just for me
All the applause all the parades
And all the money I have made
Oh it's lonely at the top

Listen all you fools out there
Go on and love me I don't care
Oh it's lonely at the top
Oh, it's lonely at the top

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Chumbawamba - The day the nazi died

Chumbawamba live, Düsseldorf

JKR

NDPP wrote:

Nation Rallies Around Ronald McDonald Statue That Embodies Country's True Heritage

https://t.co/CvwFEyDDVj

 

TJDS: What People Are Missing About Charlottesville Protest

https://youtu.be/AaO4Bv6Rzb0

"This is the game...."

So we're should give the horrific current president of the United States a pass because he did not create racism in America?!?

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

For anyone unfortunate enough to not have a copy of "Sail Away", here is "Lonely At The Top".

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

It will be interesting to see if Bannon does some major leaking. I'm not holding my breath.

One White Nationalist down. Now if only Gorka and Miller are sent flying out on their asses. But that would take the action of Kelly,not Trump.

But people are over looking one racist who is a major player in Trump's administration....The Keebler Elf himself,Jeff Sessions. Unfortunately,that degenerate asshole isn't going anywhere.

josh

The main racist white nationalist who needs to go is Trump.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

josh wrote:

The main racist white nationalist who needs to go is Trump.

Touché.

I stand corrected. But they ALL have to go.

 

 

 

 

Paladin1
NDPP

 

Dissecting The Alt-Right After Charlottesville (podcast)

https://soundcloud.com/moderaterebelsradio/alt-right-charlottesville-eug...

Max Blumenthal, Ben Norton and Eugene Puryear

 

Monumental Rage: Cities Endure Statue Removal Frenzy

https://on.rt.com/8kt0

"Bill Clinton & Lenin sculptures targeted."

 

 

JKR

NDPP wrote:

 

Dissecting The Alt-Right After Charlottesville (podcast)

https://soundcloud.com/moderaterebelsradio/alt-right-charlottesville-eug...

Max Blumenthal, Ben Norton and Eugene Puryear

 

Monumental Rage: Cities Endure Statue Removal Frenzy

https://on.rt.com/8kt0

"Bill Clinton & Lenin sculptures targeted."

 

 

Who could have thunk it, the alt-right and Trump are right about another issue!?!?!   :o

NDPP

White Zionist Pot Rae Calls Racist Trump Kettle Black

"The reason he can't disavow white supremacists is because their ideology is so close to his own. The determination of many world leaders to try and normalize this leadership has to be brought to ground."

Trump's Presidency A Long Descent Into Darkness: Rae

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2017/08/16/trumps-presidency-...

 

Max Blumenthal

https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/897140860474863616

JKR

NDPP wrote:

White Zionist Pot Rae Calls Racist Trump Kettle Black

"The reason he can't disavow white supremacists is because their ideology is so close to his own. The determination of many world leaders to try and normalize this leadership has to be brought to ground."

Trump's Presidency A Long Descent Into Darkness: Rae

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2017/08/16/trumps-presidency-...

 

Max Blumenthal

https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/897140860474863616

For God's sake leave our beloved President Donald Trump alone already!! We have real evil fish to fry like Bob Rae. Make Canada Great Again by locking up Bob Rae!?!?!  :@

josh

JKR wrote:

NDPP wrote:

White Zionist Pot Rae Calls Racist Trump Kettle Black

"The reason he can't disavow white supremacists is because their ideology is so close to his own. The determination of many world leaders to try and normalize this leadership has to be brought to ground."

Trump's Presidency A Long Descent Into Darkness: Rae

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2017/08/16/trumps-presidency-...

 

Max Blumenthal

https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/897140860474863616

For God's sake leave our beloved President Donald Trump alone already!! We have real evil fish to fry like Bob Rae. Make Canada Great Again by locking up Bob Rae!?!?!  :@

Only Putin has sufficiently clean hands to criticize Trump, don't you know?

Sean in Ottawa

alan smithee wrote:

josh wrote:

The main racist white nationalist who needs to go is Trump.

Touché.

I stand corrected. But they ALL have to go.

 

 

 

 

Agreed -- and it is noteworthy that some leaving may be leaving in order to protect the others. Progress is not always clear.

Rikardo

One person is killed in a southern state of the USA and Rabble.ca sends me a message that they are 'devastated'. Why is the Left in Canada so worked up about this. No more historical plaque in Montreal at least. Many or most young lefties know zilch about the Civil War. 600,000 lives lost only to advance the inevitable end of slavery by 10-20 years, devastate and crush the South. What about the civil war in Syria where so much of the 'left' supported the anti-Assad revolutionaries,

Rev Pesky

​From Rikardo:

What about the civil war in Syria where so much of the 'left' supported the anti-Assad revolutionaries

Yeah, and what about the Peloponnesian War that raged for thirty years up and down the Mediterranean with untold thousands killed? What about that, eh? Where was the left then, I wonder?

I'm not sure how to tell you this Rikardo, but the reason the left takes an interest in the Civil War is because it was fought largely to allow the institution of slavery to continue, and expand.  You may not know this, but the left generally and specifically is opposed to slavery. It is a founding principle.

When I see groups try to use Confederate symbols to elevate their cause, I am repulsed because I thought the idea that all humans have an equal right to partake of human society was accepted, and that the war was over.

As it appears, there are those who do not believe that fundamental principle, and apparently we have to continue to try and convince them they're wrong. Some 150 years after the war was fought. 

 

NDPP

Charlottesville Is Moment Of Truth For Empowered US Zionists (who name their children after Israeli generals)

http://mondoweiss.net/2017/08/charlottesville-empowered-children/

"Charlottesville represents a crisis for liberal Zionists. When they condemn white nationalism in the US and celebrate Jewish nationalism in Israel, the contradiction is obvious to all."

Apparently not all...

voice of the damned

Rikardo wrote:

One person is killed in a southern state of the USA and Rabble.ca sends me a message that they are 'devastated'. Why is the Left in Canada so worked up about this. No more historical plaque in Montreal at least. Many or most young lefties know zilch about the Civil War. 600,000 lives lost only to advance the inevitable end of slavery by 10-20 years, devastate and crush the South. What about the civil war in Syria where so much of the 'left' supported the anti-Assad revolutionaries,

Your last sentence(well, fragment) is non-sequitorial to the rest of the paragraph. If certain leftists are wrong about Syria(and they may very well be; I lean towards total non-intervention myself), then they are wrong about Syria, irrespective of whatever views they may hold about the rights and wrongs of the American Civil War. 

voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

Charlottesville Is Moment Of Truth For Empowered US Zionists (who name their children after Israeli generals)

http://mondoweiss.net/2017/08/charlottesville-empowered-children/

"Charlottesville represents a crisis for liberal Zionists. When they condemn white nationalism in the US and celebrate Jewish nationalism in Israel, the contradiction is obvious to all."

Apparently not all...

I agree with Weiss that there is a contradiction between being a Zionist(at least one who supports Israeli expansionism) and claiming to oppose racism and imperialism. I don't think I would call Charlottesville the big "Moment Of Truth", however, since liberal Zionists have been involved in anti-racist causes on the homefront for some time now.  

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Two songs posted here in memory of Heather Heyer, and in the hope that there not be any more martyrs in this desperately righteous cause:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdBj7u60di0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dppcME86SM

NDPP

Debate: Revolutionary Left vs Revolutionary Right

https://youtu.be/r009mDZHZ-w

"A debate on July 8th 2017 between rightist Augustus Sol Invictus and leftist Caleb Maupin in New York City."

bekayne

NDPP wrote:

Debate: Revolutionary Left vs Revolutionary Right

https://youtu.be/r009mDZHZ-w

"A debate on July 8th 2017 between rightist Augustus Sol Invictus and leftist Caleb Maupin in New York City."

There's your boy!

https://www.gq.com/story/augustus-sol-invictus-goat-sacrifice

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus_Sol_Invictus

"I have prophesied for years that I was born for a Great War; that if I did not witness the coming of the Second American Civil War I would begin it myself. Mark well: That day is fast coming upon you. On the New Moon of May, I shall disappear into the Wilderness. I will return bearing Revolution, or I will not return at all."

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
In a paper advocating for eugenics, Invictus wrote a disclaimer to the eugenics paper stating that while he believes the strong and intelligent should breed and the weak and stupid should not, he does not believe that the government can be trusted to implement such a program.

Well, there's a Conservative!  Punching the "lumpen" with one hand, and simultaneously the "cuck" government with the other!

And you have to admit:  that's a haircut you could set your watch by.

Rikardo

Will any of you deny my statement?  Over 600,000 lives lost to advance the inevitable end of slavery by 10-20 years and tto devastate and crush the South (The Confederate States of America)

(Sure the stupid Southerners fired the first shot at a Federal fort, like the Citadel in Quebec City)

Rev Pesky

From Rikardo:

Will any of you deny my statement?  Over 600,000 lives lost to advance the inevitable end of slavery by 10-20 years and tto devastate and crush the South...

I tell you what. Let me sell you into slavery for the next twenty years, and when it's over you can come back here and tell us what it meant to you.

​Perhaps more to the point, find me a slave who was opposed to freedom if it meant some white plantation owners were going to die.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Perhaps Ricky Rikardo can find some Klansmen to square dance to their favourite anthem,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKMTu1GDi_w

josh

Rikardo wrote:

Will any of you deny my statement?  Over 600,000 lives lost to advance the inevitable end of slavery by 10-20 years and tto devastate and crush the South (The Confederate States of America)

(Sure the stupid Southerners fired the first shot at a Federal fort, like the Citadel in Quebec City)

What makes you think it was inevitable?  Had there been a confederate nation, it very well could have prolonged it.  And they had plans to expand it southwards.  

JKR

josh wrote:

Rikardo wrote:

Will any of you deny my statement?  Over 600,000 lives lost to advance the inevitable end of slavery by 10-20 years and tto devastate and crush the South (The Confederate States of America)

(Sure the stupid Southerners fired the first shot at a Federal fort, like the Citadel in Quebec City)

What makes you think it was inevitable?  Had there been a confederate nation, it very well could have prolonged it.  And they had plans to expand it southwards.  

African-Americans were sitting at the back of the bus and drinking at separate water fountains still in the 1960's. It would have been worse then and now if the South had won the war. 

lagatta4

There were more slaves in Brazil than anywhere else in the world in the 19th century, a far larger number than in the US. And slavery didn't end there until the 1880s, yep 20 years more. There are still grave scars of the institution, although in some senses Brazil has a more "fluid" idea of race than the US.

I can't abide any excuses for slavery. Nobody would want to be a slave... Even the terribly exploited industrial workers in the UK were strong supporters of abolition in the US and the Caribbean.

MegB

Rikardo wrote:

Will any of you deny my statement?  Over 600,000 lives lost to advance the inevitable end of slavery by 10-20 years and tto devastate and crush the South (The Confederate States of America)

(Sure the stupid Southerners fired the first shot at a Federal fort, like the Citadel in Quebec City)

I don't think anyone here needs a history lesson so what's your point, as it pertains to the events at Charlottesville?

Rev Pesky

By the way, for what it's worth, most of the Civil War deaths were from disease. Roughly two-thirds of the total.

It's also worthwhile to remember the war wasn't strictly speaking over slavery in the Confederate states. It was whether the territories and the new states were going to be allowed to be slave states. Lincoln's position was that he couldn't prevent the existing slave states from keeping slavery, but the federal government could prevent the territories and the the new states from legalizing slavery.

The existing slave states wanted to expand slavery into the territories and new states, and saw Lincoln's action as a violation of state's rights. 

If the Confederacy had won the war, slavery would have expanded into at least some of those areas, and the speculation that it would have disappeared in 20 years or so is just that, speculation.

In any case, there were 4 million slaves in the slave states, and there could have been many more if the Confederacy had won. Even if slavery had lasted 'only' another twenty years, that would be another generation of 5 or 6 million slaves. Or to put in another way, about 100 million 'slave years'.

As far as the casualties of the war, I do feel for them. The war never should have been fought. The slave states should have given up their cause. Let us not forget this, it was their unwillingness to see the end of slavery that caused the war, that caused all those casualties. 

I also find it a bit interesting that those whose rallying cry has been, "Clinton lost! Get over it!" should be still fighting a war that ended 150 years ago.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

After Quebec City.. Watch out for professional provacateurs and remain peaceful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=At2HudGWuRY

Charlottesville counter protestors got it right. In the future Nazi rallies. Follow their example.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
I also find it a bit interesting that those whose rallying cry has been, "Clinton lost! Get over it!" should be still fighting a war that ended 150 years ago.

Agreed.  And even slightly more interesting that their other rallying cry is "... but she should still go to prison forever!!"

Sean in Ottawa

Since slavery is absolutely unacceptable the only side to blame for the existence of war over it is the side fighting to keep it.

I agree the US would only be worse if the South had won that war. While it is truly hard to think how they could have, you can easily imagine how this would have had an impact on the events of the 20th century.

Only if you employ exceptionalism can you think that the US had only one direction to where it is now or that things could not have been much worse and still remain so. The fact that you have the strength of the far right at the level it is now, can only suggest what it could have been in an alternate history.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Robert E. Lee’s Family Just Gave An Unexpected Response To Trump’s Charlottesville Controversy

Following Trump’s off the rails, impromptu press conference yesterday in which he again failed to condemn literal white supremacists and neo-Nazis at Saturday’s rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, the family of Robert E. Lee, in a surprising move, denounced the white nationalist groups who rallied to preserve the Civil War general’s statue.

“There’s no place for that,” Robert E. Lee V, the great-great-grandson of the Confederate hero, said in an interview with Newsweek“There’s no place for that hate.” Along with Lee’s sister, Tracy Lee Crittenberger, the two issued a statement condemning the “hateful words and violent actions of white supremacists, the KKK or neo-Nazis.”

Despite the violent crowd of white supremacists marching to protect Lee’s statue, which has stood in Charlottesville since 1924, his family issued a stern warning against invoking their forebearer’s name in defense of the abhorrent and racist acts.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Pro-Nazis gathered in Madison Square Garden in 1939

https://interactive.guim.co.uk/2017/08/american-nazis/usa-nazis.mp4

The United States was never immune to fascism. Not then, not now

America is currently experiencing a wave of increasingly aggressive far-right and neo-fascist activism. Observers have routinely considered fascism an ideology alien to American society. Yet it has deeper roots in American history than most of us have been willing to acknowledge.

Consider the interwar period. The crisis years of the 1920s and 1930s not only gave rise to fascist movements across Europe – a moment captured in Ernst Nolte’s classic The Three Faces of Fascism – but around the globe. The United States was no exception.

josh

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Since slavery is absolutely unacceptable the only side to blame for the existence of war over it is the side fighting to keep it.

I agree the US would only be worse if the South had won that war. While it is truly hard to think how they could have, you can easily imagine how this would have had an impact on the events of the 20th century.

Only if you employ exceptionalism can you think that the US had only one direction to where it is now or that things could not have been much worse and still remain so. The fact that you have the strength of the far right at the level it is now, can only suggest what it could have been in an alternate history.

 

Not having to have the south, the U.S. would probably have been better off.  But blacks, Central America and the Caribbean wouldn't have.  No war is good.  But if any wars could be considered good, it would be the U.S. Civil War and WWII.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Howard Zinn, who fought in WW2, later expressed doubts about the rectitude of Ameria's three holy wars, including the Civil War.

Sean in Ottawa

josh wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Since slavery is absolutely unacceptable the only side to blame for the existence of war over it is the side fighting to keep it.

I agree the US would only be worse if the South had won that war. While it is truly hard to think how they could have, you can easily imagine how this would have had an impact on the events of the 20th century.

Only if you employ exceptionalism can you think that the US had only one direction to where it is now or that things could not have been much worse and still remain so. The fact that you have the strength of the far right at the level it is now, can only suggest what it could have been in an alternate history.

 

Not having to have the south, the U.S. would probably have been better off.  But blacks, Central America and the Caribbean wouldn't have.  No war is good.  But if any wars could be considered good, it would be the U.S. Civil War and WWII.

It is difficult to play the what-if game and I am not sure this is true. If the US was managing an independent south it is possible that its more negative interferences in the rest of the Americas may have been reduced. I think there are too many difficult questions that would ahve been answered with different people becoming leaders of each of the countries.

The entire would would have been different and it is very difficult to determine which of those differences would have been positive or negative.

Even the second world war may have had a different outcome and the US may have been split then.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..from democracy now headlines

After Massive Boston Protest, White Nationalists & Right-Wing Groups Cancel 67 Planned Rallies

A slew of right-wing and white supremacist rallies have been canceled following the massive nationwide protests against white supremacy over the weekend. On Saturday, up to 40,000 people poured into the streets around the Boston Common to protest a planned so-called "free speech rally" by white nationalists. The flood of counter-protesters so overwhelmed the white nationalist rally that aerial photos show only a handful of the extremists even showed up, and that they spent the day huddled in a gazebo on the Boston Common. Thousands more rallied over the weekend against white supremacy in dozens of other U.S. cities. In response, far-right and white nationalist groups have canceled 67 upcoming rallies, saying the protests will instead be held online.

josh

Just after he tells Fatima to remove her "head towel" in reference to her hijab, Goertzen and her friend walk up to the parking lot near Seven Sisters dam and approach the group. Goertzen said she was shocked by what she heard and saw.

"I couldn't believe that someone would speak to another human this way regardless of their skin, their size, their race, their colour. It doesn't

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/nazi-manitoba-bystander-1.4261463

 

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