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kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

NorthReport wrote:

Let's start treating China the same way it treats other countries like Taiwan, Philippines, VietNam, etc.

That is a good idea. Here is what that relationship with the Philippines actually looks like. Strange how you think China is a bully and the people you are "defending" with your white supremacist viewpoint don't seem to agree. Lets let the Philippines work out its relationship with their neighbours, its none of our fucking business. Although on the whole it looks like China's policy towards the Philippines could be lauded instead of decried as bullying.

Provided below is a quick overview of the relationship between the Philippines and China (these latest available figures are up to date as of 2015).

ECONOMY AND TRADE

  • US$ 1.272 billion in development assistance to the Philippines from China from 2002 until 2013 (not including the results of the recent visit to Beijing – as referred to below).
  • US$ 17.646 billion worth of bilateral trade between China and the Philippines in 2015.
  • US$ 6.175 billion worth of Philippine. exports to China in 2015.
  • US$ 11.471 billion in Philippine imports from China in 2015.
  • US$ 1.455 billion in Chinese investments in the Philippines in 2015.

TOURISM

  • An estimated 680,000 Chinese visitors to the Philippines in 2016.
  • An estimated 1.2 million Filipino visitors to China in 2016.

Top 10 visitors markets_Philippines

  • Tourism from China to Philippines will increase and is a good source of revenue for the Philippines. The figures for 2017 are expected to increase rapidly, and the casino industry is expected to be one of the major beneficiaries.

BILATERAL AGREEMENTS – Philippines and China

  • 1978 Scientific and Technological Cooperation Agreement
  • 1979 Cultural Cooperation Agreement, Civil Aviation and Transportation Agreement
  • 2001 Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) on Sports Cooperation
  • 2001 Cooperation in Information Industry
  • 2001 Cooperation in the Crackdown on Transnational Crimes
  • 2001 Treaty on Extradition
  • 2001 Pact on Cooperation Against Illicit Traffic and Abuse of Narcotic Drugs
  • 2002 MOU on Tourism Cooperation
  • 2005 MOU on Maritime Cooperation
  • 2005 Pact on Cooperation in Youth Affairs
  • 2007 MOU on Cooperation in Sanitary and Phytosanitary Cooperation, Education Cooperation
  • 2007 Pact on Protection of Cultural Heritage
  • 2008 Pact on Sanitary Cooperation

https://www.aseanbriefing.com/news/2017/04/10/philippines-economic-polit...

NDPP

Hong Kong Activist Goes On Defensive After Being Photographed With US Consulate Official (and vid)

https://on.rt.com/9zmm

"A Hong Kong activist who has played an active role in the ongoing anti-Beijing protests has raised suspicions after being photographed meeting with a senior official from the US consulate. Joshua Wong Chi-Fung, the secretary-general of pro-democracy party Demosisto, told the Hong Kong Standard that there was nothing sinister behind his recent meeting with Julie Eadeh, a political unit chief of the US consulate-general in Hong Kong. 'I even went to Washington several times, so what's so special about meeting a US consul?' Wong told the Standard..."

Was the nice CIA lady giving out cookies or just the usual greenbacks?

NDPP

NO, the UN Did NOT Report China Has 'Massive Internment Camps' For Uighur Muslims

https://thegrayzone.com/2018/08/23/un-did-not-report-china-internment-ca...

"Media outlets falsely claimed the UN reported China is holding a million Uighurs in camps. The claim is based on an unsourced allegation by an American commission member, US-funded outfits and a shadowy government-funded opposition group..."

 

Washington's Major Push For Xinjiang

https://journal-neo.org/2019/08/04/washingtons-major-push-for-xinjiang/

"With the war of words and sanctions heating up between the US and China, Washington is increasingly determined to stir separatist sentiments in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of the PRC. The ability to inflict real damage on its primary geopolitical competitor by turning Xinjiang into a break-away region or plunging it into chaos has transformed the matter of Uyghur separatism into Washington's weapon of choice in its struggle against Beijing in today's version of The Great Game.

Whenever the matter of separatist movements of China is brought up, one starts thinking about Tibet and Xinjiang. The latter is often referred to as East Turkestan by both local separatists and their Western sponsors, with none of them even mentioning that fact that this region has an estimated 21 billion tons of oil reserves together with 10.3 trillion cubic meters of discovered natural gas desposits. Further still, Xinjiang's coal reserves account for nearly 40% of the national total, while rare earth metals and uranium desposits make up more than three-fourths of China's mineral reserves. It goes without saying that American special interests would very much like to dip their toes into this wealth.

It's even less surprising that the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) that sponsored the Tibetan unrest of 2008, Iran's Green Movement of 2009, together with a number of 'color revolutions' is also sponsoring the World Uyghur Congress. Additionally, this organization receives charities through the Uyghur American Association that is also headed by Rebiya Kadeer. In total, the funds that this organization receives allow it to publish books, hold conferences that draw hundreds of participants from all corners of the world and maintains a number of offices in the UK, Turkey, Australia, Sweden and Canada.

Their activities create a perfect smoke-screen for Western intelligence agencies that work in cooperation with their Saudi and Turkish counterparts to advance the Uyghur cause..."

NorthReport
NorthReport

And the Chinese Government is no where to be found. Strange dat.

Why are they hiding, eh!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-08/amazon-under-fire-again-as-china-factory-hires-teenage-interns?srnd=premium-canada

NorthReport
NDPP

China Hits Back at the US (Full Show)

https://youtu.be/RqadHqCWd2Q

"China is telling the US to stop meddling in its domestic affairs. What is behind so much anti-China rhetoric out of Washington...?"

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

An American company broke Chinese law and got caught doing it. Its hard anywhere in the world to keep an eye on the corrupt western companies. Companies like Amazon and SNC-L lead the globe in corrupt and illegal practises. 

According to Chinese law, companies are allowed to hire young people from 16 years old. However, they are not allowed to work at night or work overtime.

The manufacturer Foxconn, which also supplies Apple in addition to Amazon, has acknowledged in a statement that it has hired students on illegal terms. Efforts are underway to clarify the situation as quickly as possible, according to officials. "We have doubled the control of the internship program with our partner schools to ensure that interns should never work at night or work overtime," Foxconn spokesman said.

https://news-techno.com/2019/08/09/amazon-scandal-alexa-and-co-produced-...

NorthReport
NorthReport
kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I read the story and drew the conclusion that the US consulate is actively engaged in the violent vandalism sweeping Hong Kong so is deflecting by whining about their diplomats safety.  I've got an idea, don't fucking interfere in the internal affairs of another county as a diplomat if you want to be treated with the proper respect accorded someone who by international law and convention should not be meeting with locals to plan anti-government protests.

NorthReport

No hope

It’s the rich against the poor. It always has been and always will be

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-in-hong-kong-the-bloom-of-youth-has-been-doomed-by-hard-truth/

NDPP

Erdogan: Will China Trigger Next Financial Tsunami?

https://journal-neo.org/2019/08/09/will-china-trigger-next-financial-tsu...

"...The question is whether this is the beginning of a genuine currency war that will trigger a new Financial Tsunami as bad if not worse than that of the Lehman Crisis in 2008. Are we on the verge of a so-called perfect storm that will transform the post-1945 global order?"

NorthReport
NorthReport
NDPP

John Wight: For the Anti-China Lobby Hong Kong is a Godsend

https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1159943687175983104

"Hong Kong is fast becoming another frontline in the struggle between East and West, between the forces of unipolarity and multipolarity..."

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

NorthReport wrote:

No hope

It’s the rich against the poor. It always has been and always will be

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-in-hong-kong-the-bloom-of-youth-has-been-doomed-by-hard-truth/

Hong Kong under its special system has the largest wealth disparity in China.

NorthReport

Finally China appears to be under increasing scrutiny

which is healthy and long overdue

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/future-perfect/2019/8/10/20757495/peter-thiel-ai-arms-race-china

NDPP

Escobar: Hong Kong, Kashmir - A Tale of Two Occupations

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/08/07/hong-kong-kashmir-a-ta...

"Much to the distress of neocons and humanitarian imperialists, there won't be a bloody mainland China crackdown on protesters in Hong Kong - a Tiananmen 2.0. Why? Because it's not worth it. Beijing has clearly identified the color revolution provocation inbuilt in the protests - with the NED excelling as CIA soft..."

NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport

China needs to learn how to spell the word DEMOCRACY

 

NorthReport
NorthReport
NDPP

Hong Kong Protesters Draw Strong Inspiration From Ukraine Revolution

https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1160073695307505666

"Ukrainian media approvingly state Hong Kong protesters draw strong inspiration from Color Revolution in Ukraine. Funny thing, many drew the same conclusion..."

Lol, very funny indeed.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

As this article states in China the legal age for work is 16. In BC under your pro-worker NDP the legal age is 15 years old generally but 12 if you ask permission. The laws in BC provide even less protection than in China and after three years in power the NDP has still not hired enough staff to enforce the feeble employment standards that we have on  the books. Yes China is not a very good society when it comes to protecting workers rights however it does better than  your government in Victoria so take the fucking plank out of your eyes. By the way the UK where your Guardian propaganda outlet is situated also has a 16 year old age limit with exceptions for younger employment.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standa...

https://www.gov.uk/child-employment

NorthReport

Hey bud

this is a China Thread

if you want to complain about bc by all means do but what’s with this race to the bottom, eh!

 

NDPP

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kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

NorthReport wrote:

Hey bud

this is a China Thread

if you want to complain about bc by all means do but what’s with this race to the bottom, eh!

When a white settler in a colonial state complains about other people it sure sounds like anti-Chinese racism. In BC that is another thing we have a long history of. You sound like a founding member of the Asiatic Exclusion League but since that was from a century ago I guess you can't be that old. You are a racist but I know you will not get it because you are so far from woke you are in a comma.

NorthReport
NorthReport
NDPP

WATCH: "Demonstrators in Hong Kong cannot threaten Beijing. In the end, Hong Kong will restore order and the opposition has to accept the fact that they are unable to challenge the one country, two systems."

https://twitter.com/globaltimes/status/1160571326253297665

 

WATCH: "Hundreds of black-clad protesters occupied the Hong Kong Airport arrivals, causing inconvenience. A woman who lives in Hong Kong asked these protesters, 'I don't understand why everytime you guys protest you bring along US and UK flags!'

 

https://twitter.com/Liam_Stone18/status/1159918687752560641

NDPP

MK Bhadrakumar: A Sino-Russian Firewall Against US Interference

https://t.co/JyiNuscJMJ

"...In both cases the American agenda is blatantly 'regime change'. This may seem surprising, since the Chinese and Russian leaderships appear rock solid. The legitimacy of the Chinese Communist Party over which President Xi Jinping presides and the popularity of Putin is still at a level that is the envy of any politician anywhere in the world, but the doctrine of 'colour revolution' is not built on democratic principles.

Moscow's message to Beijing is direct and candid - 'United we stand, divided we fall.' No doubt, the two countries have been in consultation and wanted the rest of the world to know. Indeed, the message Zakharova transmitted - on a joint firewall against US interference - is of epochal significance. It elevates the Russia-China alliance to a qualitatively new level, creating yet another political underpinning of collective security."

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I have a sickening feeling that the following things are about to happen:

1) The Paranoid Market Stalinist regime in Beijing is going to a) Force Hong Kong to pass the law the protesters have been engaging in mass civil disobedience to stop, the law that would let Beijing extradite Hong Kong democracy activists for what will likely end up being long-term imprisonment and probably torture, even though Beijing has no reason to insist on such a law, as what activists do in Hong Kong is none of Beijing's business;

3) The People's Liberation Army-btw, can they PLEASE change that freaking name?  Crushing dissent by brute force has nothing to do with "Liberation"-will 6/4/89 Hong Kong, with thousands, maybe tens of thousands dead, even though they have no valid justification for sending troops into Hong Kong and turning it into yet another "Market Stalinist" right-wing police state;

3) Trump, Lil' Justin, Boris and every "democratic" European regime will join Putin in defending both of the above.  

I truly hope nobody defends any of that, since none of that needs to be defended in the name of "anti-imperialism", just as dictatorial methods never serve the anti-imperialist cause.

NDPP

"This is the whole thread of a pro-protest CNN journo who was disgusted by what Hong Kong protesters did to this man from mainland China..."

https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1161336210591109120

NDPP

'World is Watching': US Reaction Points To Hong Kong As A 'Color Revolution'

https://on.rt.com/9zu5

"If the iconography and tone of Hong Kong protests and the support from US diplomats weren't enough, Washington's words of concern sure seem to suggest that the months-long demonstration amounts to a 'color revolution'. On Monday, the Trump administration urged 'all sides to refrain from violence.' While carefully paying lip service to Hong Kong being an internal Chinese matter, the unnamed White House official who spoke to the press said the US supported those 'looking for democracy.'

The president's top legislative ally, Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell (R-Kentucky) was far more direct: 'Any violent crackdown would be completely unacceptable - The world is watching.' Once cannot help but recall that the same phrasing was used for Ukraine..."

Marco Rubio

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1161360974072471557

"China's escalating threat against Hong Kong is not an 'internal matter'..."

YANKEE GO HOME!

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NDPP, people of conscience can't let China use the "internal matter" canard to justify forcing the rest of the human race to say nothing every time it uses brutality to stifle dissent.

And I say that as a person who has never accepted the idea that any "Western" country has the right to use violence against dissent as well.

BTW, there's an excellent chance that the "protesters" who beat up the guy in the airport, as well as the guy himself, being infiltrators and provocateurs sent in by the right-wing "Market Stalinist" regime.  The timing was awfully convenient for Beijing's purposes.

And if we're going to call bullshit when leaders in Washington, Ottawa, London and Paris claim "necessity" as they are ramping up for brutality, we need to call bullshit when Beijing does it, too.

Right-wing "Market Stalinism" is not, in any sense, anti-imperialism.  Demanding that another jurisdiction extradite dissidents is not anti-imperialism.  Repression is not anti-imperialism.  And there's no valid reason for the Left to ever again defend any of that, anywhere.

NDPP

Galloway: Hong Kong Phooey! Would You Like Any Hypocrisy With That?

https://on.rt.com/9zvg

"...Like a homing pigeon in reverse the entire UK media has flown like a bat out of hell away from France all the way to Hong Kong (as they had earlier flown to Caracas until the big protests turned into the wrong kind of protests). And the hypocrisy of the media is just for starters. If a crowd of British protesters occupied Heathrow Airport in such numbers and so disruptively that British Airways had to stop flying in and out of the airport, causing massive financial loss, dislocation and personal inconvenience, I promise you that their protest would have been cleared out by the above national commandos on the very first day of their protests. If protesters in London were hoisting Chinese flags and singing the Chinese national anthem then, well, I'm sure you get my point.

They tell us about NGOs and 'civil society' without telling us whose pounds and dollars the 'NGOs' are stuffed with. In fact, these foreign-funded and guided organisations are carefully stabled Trojan Horses chomping their British and American supplied hay until the time came for them to be told to gallop, and gallop they now are. This is all Hong Kong phooey! No other country in the world would have shown such forebearance in the face of foreign-sponsored rioting, destruction and sabotage of the national economy as China has. If in the days to come China's patience runs out, it will not be before time so far as the great majority of Chinese citizens, including Hong Kong citizens are concerned..."

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I get it that some protests are either started by or corrupted by outside forces in various countries.  But we can't extrapolate from that that's what going on in Hong Kong is a Western plot.  We can't assume the democracy movemetns are ALWAYS bogus and that everybody in places like China or Syria are unquestioningly chill with the status quo imposed by the ruling party. 

If anything, the leaders of "the West" are quietly hoping the Market Stalinists will do another 6/4/89.

You would agree, I'd hope that there'd be no excuse for any regime, anywhere, ever doing anything like THAT again.

WWWTT

Hey Ken Burch when 500 thousand protesters storm Washington congress senate and White House carrying the Chinese flag and hammer and cicle, destroying as much as they can and demanding communism then we’ll talk. 

The Peoples Liberation Army has an obligation to protect socialism against cia plants.

Never knew you were such a defender of the imperialist corporate media’s lies. 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Ken Burch wrote:

I get it that some protests are either started by or corrupted by outside forces in various countries.  But we can't extrapolate from that that's what going on in Hong Kong is a Western plot.  We can't assume the democracy movemetns are ALWAYS bogus and that everybody in places like China or Syria are unquestioningly chill with the status quo imposed by the ruling party. 

No citizens of any country are 100% satisfied with the status quo. In Canada our security agencies used brute force against anarchists protesting the G20 oligarchy, I can only imagine the response if they were being funded by China and were shutting down Pearson Airport. 

We have no right to tell the people of China what government they should have. That is US exceptionalism at its worst. The violent thugs wave the UK flag a lot. The UK had nearly a century to institute democracy and it didn't so its not like the people in Hong Kong lost any voting rights they had under UK imperialism.

swallow swallow's picture

WWWTT wrote:

Hey Ken Burch when 500 thousand protesters storm Washington congress senate and White House carrying the Chinese flag and hammer and cicle, destroying as much as they can and demanding communism then we’ll talk. 

The Peoples Liberation Army has an obligation to protect socialism against cia plants.

Never knew you were such a defender of the imperialist corporate media’s lies. 

Yeah Ken, we must all rally to the defence of Capitalist China. States must always smash dissent! All protesters are CIA agents! Protest is imperialism! Viva! 

(Just trying to echo NDPP's racist party line that protesters are incapable of free thought and must be in thrall to white puppetmasters.)

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

WWWTT wrote:

Hey Ken Burch when 500 thousand protesters storm Washington congress senate and White House carrying the Chinese flag and hammer and cicle, destroying as much as they can and demanding communism then we’ll talk. 

The Peoples Liberation Army has an obligation to protect socialism against cia plants.

Never knew you were such a defender of the imperialist corporate media’s lies. 

the 1989 protesters were not fighting to turn China capitalist-they were making a peaceful stand for socialism without repression, paranoia, and endless screaming campaigns against "deviationists".  They weren't carrying the US flag.  They WERE singing the Internationale.  And when Beijing crushed its democracy movement in 1989, Bush didn't care.  He said nothing because they weren't on his side. 

What happened in 1989 was a legitmate, libertarian socialist revolt from below.  Nothing but tragedy came of that revolt being crushed.

BTW, in case you've not noticed, China went capitalist anyway.  The democracy movement never wanted China's cities to be filled with western banks and luxury hotels.  They didn't march and die for KFC and McDonald's.  It's not a victory for socialism that billionaires are Party memberse.  It was no victory for socialism that what exists now is a capitalist dictatorship.

Socialism never needs dictatorship to survive, and when dictatorial methods are used, the socialist aspects of the state always end up vanishing, because socialism, in the end, has to be linked to human liberation in all forms.

And the Hong Kong protesters had no alternative but to occupy the airport.  They also aren't fighting to overthrow the Party on the Mainland-they are simply fighting an unjust law which would allow Beijing to extradite political dissidents for questioning and trial.  There is no reason to have such a law, because there is no reason for Beijing to try to stop Hong Kong from moving to full democracy and no reason to punish anyone for working for it.

What happened in 1989 was not a CIA plot.  What's happening at the airport is not a CIA plot.

And nothing the PLA did in 1989 or WOULD be doing if it crushed the airport protests now could possibly be called "defending socialism"-any more than Brezhnev was defending socialism by crushing the Prague Spring, or Krushchev when he crushed the fight for a humane, democratic form of socialism in Hungary, or Stalin was defending it by crushing the socialist rising against Stalin's pointless insistence that the DDR mirror Stalin's model without question or deviation, or that Stalin was ever defending socialism through the purge trials, or the Gulag and the Kolyma-or Lenin was defending it by crushing the Krondstadt rising when all that was about was a defense of free speech and the original idea of the soviets as real decision-making bodies.

None of that was ever about defending socialism.

None of that was ever necessary to defend socialism.

And there is no reason for any reason for any state which claims to be "socialist"-let alone any other state-to ever do any of those things again.

At some point in the far future, Beijing will have to apologize to the people for what it did in 1989.  Why not just call on them NOT to act in the same way in Hong Kong this time?  Why not just call on them to leave Hong Kong's internal affairs alone and let the place be a full-fledged democracy if that's what the people of that country want?

China doesn't need to be able to intimidate the people of Hong Kong to be secure, for God's sakes.   And it would certainly have no justification to storm the place and kill them by the thousands.

It's time for Beijing to just back the hell off here.  

 

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

I get it that some protests are either started by or corrupted by outside forces in various countries.  But we can't extrapolate from that that's what going on in Hong Kong is a Western plot.  We can't assume the democracy movemetns are ALWAYS bogus and that everybody in places like China or Syria are unquestioningly chill with the status quo imposed by the ruling party. 

No citizens of any country are 100% satisfied with the status quo. In Canada our security agencies used brute force against anarchists protesting the G20 oligarchy, I can only imagine the response if they were being funded by China and were shutting down Pearson Airport. 

We have no right to tell the people of China what government they should have. That is US exceptionalism at its worst. The violent thugs wave the UK flag a lot. The UK had nearly a century to institute democracy and it didn't so its not like the people in Hong Kong lost any voting rights they had under UK imperialism.

Agreed that no country should be telling the people of China what sort of government they should have. 

Absolutely

That's not what's happening here. '

The airport protests are not a Western conspiracy.  There's been a massive, totally independent democracy movement in Hong Kong.  It was created by the people of Hong Kong themselves.  And that movement is simply trying to establish full, independent democracy in Hong Kong itself.  

Beijing doesn't have to be able to intimidate Hong Kong into passing a law that allows them to extradite democracy activists for questioning, trial-trials which will be rigged to guarantee conviction-and then extended prison sentences.  China has no justification for pushing Hong Kong to do that, OR for insisting on ultimately making Hong Kong just another part of China where there would be exactly the same amount of police state paranoia as exists on the mainland.

China doesn't need to intimidate Hong Kong and force it to hand over people for show trials just to feel "secure".

And really, why should the Left accept that the PRC should be able to forbid any public dissent against anything it refers to as "internal affairs"?   Why should we give them the same kind of pass some-but not all-people gave Stalin on what he did back in the Thirties?  Why shouldn't the Left make a clear and absolute break with all that bullshit and never do anything like that again?  

Socialism will never need butchers again.  It never needed them in the first place.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Ken that extradition law is a red herring. Imagine not being able to bring a Canadian back to Vancouver if they flee to the North West Territories.  I think you just don't get that Hong Kong is and always has been a part of China. Tell me Ken why did the UK not give the people of Hong Kong any democratic rights, they had nearly a hundred years.

In the meantime the people of China seem to be getting on with life despite your revulsion for a system that has raised the most people out of poverty on the planet. Imagine if China was more like India, with its liberal democracy, they hardly have any repression at all in India or the Kashmir, if your a Hindu. I use India because they are another nasty country left over after British rule with a flawed system that is lauded as a democracy.

Try traveling some, maybe take a nice shuttle ride.

https://www.travelchinaguide.com/cityguides/hongkong/zhuhai-macau-bridge...

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Ken that extradition law is a red herring. Imagine not being able to bring a Canadian back to Vancouver if they flee to the North West Territories.  I think you just don't get that Hong Kong is and always has been a part of China. Tell me Ken why did the UK not give the people of Hong Kong any democratic rights, they had nearly a hundred years.

In the meantime the people of China seem to be getting on with life despite your revulsion for a system that has raised the most people out of poverty on the planet. Imagine if China was more like India, with its liberal democracy, they hardly have any repression at all in India or the Kashmir, if your a Hindu. I use India because they are another nasty country left over after British rule with a flawed system that is lauded as a democracy.

Try traveling some, maybe take a nice shuttle ride.

https://www.travelchinaguide.com/cityguides/hongkong/zhuhai-macau-bridge...

1) I've never defended the British denying the vote to anyone, or anything ELSE the British Empire ever did.  They SHOULD have given the people of Hong Kong full self-rule from the start-just as there should never have been a start, because Britain never had any right to take Hong Kong, any more than Britain ever had any justification for ever having a single colony, including Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, the first colonies of the Empire.

And it was Margaret Thatcher who cheerfully signed over Hong Kong to China-most of its population wanted independence, which they should have been given-which means that what's happening there now has nothing to do with British imperialism. 

2) I don't want the Chinese government overthrown, or "The West" taking any greater control of Chinese economic life than anybody else.  And given that the country is, for all practical purposes, capitalist, in what sense is what the regime is doing about defending "socialism" at all?  And what necessity is there for Beijing to be able to silence all dissent against what it does not only in the actual PRC, but in Hong Kong itself?  Why should this ever end with Hong Kong being put under full "Market Stalinism"?

3) If the PRC is currently prosperous, bully to them-but why assume the PRC can only be prosperous if dissent and critique of the status quo are forever treated as crimes?   Why should the Left defend what the PRC leadership now, when defending them now means agreeing to defend the country being a police state for the rest of eternity?  

4) In the case of the extradition example of sending someone who has escaped from NWT to Vancouver-obviously that person should be extradited if they are wanted for actual crimes, such as rape or murder then by all means send them back.  Buy that should not extend to people being extradited for their political involvement.  If, for example Nunavit had asserted the right to self-determination by voting to establish sovereignty-association, and subsuquently establish a government and economy run on some form of socialism grounded in Inuit traditions.  Supposing a Ginger Goodwin left-labour organizer shows up there, on the run from an even further-right British Columbia provincial government which has vowed to start executing socialists.   Would you argue that, in the name of Canadian sovereignty, British Columbia should be able to demand that that labour organizer be extradited to what we all know would be certain death?

The government of the PRC is simply another government.  It no more deserves exemption from dissent and critique than any other.

There has to be some way of recognize Chinese sovereignty without treating the government of the PRC as if it should be accorded the political equivalent of papal infallibility.   

And basically, all I'm asking for here is that the PRC not stage a massacre at the Hong Kong airport.  Why on earth shouldn't all of us ask that of them, just as we ask all other governments not to massacre people?

 

WWWTT

swallow wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

Hey Ken Burch when 500 thousand protesters storm Washington congress senate and White House carrying the Chinese flag and hammer and cicle, destroying as much as they can and demanding communism then we’ll talk. 

The Peoples Liberation Army has an obligation to protect socialism against cia plants.

Never knew you were such a defender of the imperialist corporate media’s lies. 

Yeah Ken, we must all rally to the defence of Capitalist China. States must always smash dissent! All protesters are CIA agents! Protest is imperialism! Viva! 

(Just trying to echo NDPP's racist party line that protesters are incapable of free thought and must be in thrall to white puppetmasters.)

Not really sure if you understand what’s been going on in 香港for the last 170 years or not? But really, when people protest, it’s  for a good reason! Do you really believe that most of these protesters are all worked up over an extradition law that will never effect a law abiding citizen? And at the same time, give a total fucking ratts ass about living in poverty? Really!

And now, all of a sudden, it’s Beijings fault for 160 years of British raping?!?!?

Oh and by the way, China isn’t capitalist. Over 75% of all the corporations are owned by the state. Maybe some idiots that don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground will buy you horse shit? Or you actually believe your horse shit? I don’t care which it is so you pick. 

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