China #3

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Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
You know that’s one thing I really admire about the Chinese Communist Party

Don't make us settle for just ONE.  Tell us all 100+ things you admire about them. 

I'll start:

1. They can make a three minute egg in two minutes.

Now you.

Quote:
they don’t assume the people’s are stupid and take them for granted!

What do they do instead?

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

This report seems pretty important.

Bloomberg News wrote:

China added to bond investors’ jitters on Wednesday as traders braced for what they feared could be the end of a three-decade bull market.

Senior government officials in Beijing reviewing the nation’s foreign-exchange holdings have recommended slowing or halting purchases of U.S. Treasuries, according to people familiar with the matter. The news comes as global debt markets were already selling off amid signs that central banks are starting to step back after years of bond-buying stimulus. Yields on 10-year Treasuries rose for a fifth day, touching the highest since March.

China holds the world’s largest foreign-exchange reserves, at $3.1 trillion, and regularly assesses its strategy for investing them. It isn’t clear whether the officials’ recommendations have been adopted. The market for U.S. government bonds is becoming less attractive relative to other assets, and trade tensions with the U.S. may provide a reason to slow or stop buying American debt, the thinking of these officials goes, according to the people, who asked not to be named as they aren’t allowed to discuss the matter publicly. China’s State Administration of Foreign Exchange didn’t immediately reply to a fax seeking comment on the matter.

Sean in Ottawa

WWWTT wrote:

who cares about “western” msm when your wages are doubling in 4-5 years and jobs are a dime a dozen? You think Chinese people are stupid enough to fall for the corporate “dangling carrot” of shiny trinkets?  You know that’s one thing I really admire about the Chinese Communist Party, they don’t assume the people’s are stupid and take them for granted!

 

Really cool when you ignore the baseline.

https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2018/january/income-living-sta...

Now the fact that those wages are low and the cost of living increasing more than elsewhere might be something only the foreign media would discuss but don't pretend here that it is not relevant.

The point is that China's proverty has been desperate for a long time and improvements are being made now. However, the rate of growth at this point with wages and standards of living well below "western countries" makes that progress only relative to itself and its history. compared to the value of what they produce and sell, or to other countries these incomes are not as great as you suggest.

Here chinese media speaks about the increase but no mention of the actual rate.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2016-11/14/content_27366367.htm

 

Here is the rise in wages in real money:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/743522/china-average-yearly-wages/

Yes, the average rate in China for 2017 is 67,569 -- but that is in  ¥ which is only $13,024.89 Canadian

 

WWWTT

Ya of course inflation and housing is going up overall in China. But everyone there tells me that the country is improving and getting a job is very easy. The government even has a department/ministry strictly for poverty reduction that works in less urban outback areas of China where poverty is more prevelant. Infrastructure is growing like no other country has ever seen in human history! It's noy just about wages, and not just that, a couple friends there we know have taken lower paying jobs for the lower stress. I can go on, but you get the point.

Almost forgot

Yes, the average rate in China for 2017 is 67,569 -- but that is in  ¥ which is only $13,024.89 Canadian

How much you want to bet that the gap between the wealthy and poor is smaller in China than in Canada? How about the median wages? The term average is real misleading. Especially when used to describe incomes!!!

Sean in Ottawa

WWWTT wrote:

Ya of course inflation and housing is going up overall in China. But everyone there tells me that the country is improving and getting a job is very easy. The government even has a department/ministry strictly for poverty reduction that works in less urban outback areas of China where poverty is more prevelant. Infrastructure is growing like no other country has ever seen in human history! It's noy just about wages, and not just that, a couple friends there we know have taken lower paying jobs for the lower stress. I can go on, but you get the point.

Almost forgot

Yes, the average rate in China for 2017 is 67,569 -- but that is in  ¥ which is only $13,024.89 Canadian

How much you want to bet that the gap between the wealthy and poor is smaller in China than in Canada? How about the median wages? The term average is real misleading. Especially when used to describe incomes!!!

Nope and nope.

China's median monthly wages in Shanghai ($1,135), Beijing ($983) and Shenzen ($938)

I am sure you can recognize that these are where the higher median wages would be.

China income inequality among world’s worst

"Communist China has one of the world’s highest levels of income inequality, with the richest 1 per cent of households owning a third of the country’s wealth, a report from Peking University has found.

The poorest 25 per cent of Chinese households own just 1 per cent of the country’s total wealth, the study found.

China’s Gini coefficient for income, a widely used measure of inequality, was 0.49 in 2012, according to the report. The World Bank considers a coefficient above 0.40 to represent severe income inequality."

https://www.ft.com/content/3c521faa-baa6-11e5-a7cc-280dfe875e28

 

Yes Canada is doing badly in terms of inequality. Really badly at a Gini of 32. However, nowhere near China.

Sean in Ottawa

By the way -- depending on who you ask in the 1970s China's Gini Coefficient was estimated to be in the teens -- far better than most countries. The inequality in China has escalated since then. For the record -- at that time Canada was in the 20s. So China went from being way better than Canada to way worse in this regard -- even as both declined substantially.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

The article you posted Sean shows that the cost of living in the CHineses provinces is lower outside the big cities. Much like Canada.

"The median is just under 7,000 yuan per square meter. We see that housing prices in most provinces did not deviate greatly from the median, but housing prices in Beijing and Shanghai were nearly five times the median and over eight times the lowest housing price regions. Therefore, the cost of living can vary greatly across China.

Finally, we adjusted per capita household disposable income (the second figure) by our provincial housing price index (the third figure) to create an income index adjusted for cost of living (the figure below).

 

China income index

From this perspective, inequality looks less extreme. The average index was 2.8 and the median was 2.9.

Interestingly, Beijing and Shanghai were at the bottom of this index. The figure suggests that the high average income enjoyed by Beijing and Shanghai does not necessarily translate into high living standards because the cost of living was also extremely high in these two cities. In other words, the living standards in Beijing and Shanghai in terms of the purchasing power of yuan were not necessarily higher than the poor provinces, but were instead much lower. Hence, measured by average living standards in the provinces, inequality in China is not as severe as people often think. These results are similar to what St. Louis Fed President James Bullard found based on U.S. data.1

If anything, people living in the highest income regions could be the poorest in terms of living standards because of high costs of living in big cities. Although quite interesting, these data nonetheless do not reveal the inequalities across households within each province in China and across the nation."

Of course comparing China with a country like Canada with so few people and so many resources just highlights that us white people did a good job of stealing from First Nartions over the last hundred and fifty years.

The only real comparison given population is to compare India with China. India of course has the benefit of a system of government that is very similar to Canada's. They both have been independent for about the same number of years in the modern era. So I guess it is proof that our style of liberal democracy has way worse outcomes for poor people in developing countries than one using the Chinese style of democracy.

"India accounted for the largest number of people living below international poverty line in 2013, with 30 per cent of its population under the $1.90-a- day poverty measure, the World Bank said.

India accounts for one in three of the poor population worldwide, the world body said in its inaugural edition of the report 'Poverty and Shared Prosperity', according to which extreme poverty worldwide continued to fall despite the global economy's "under-performance".

"India is by far the country with the largest number of people living under the international USD 1.90-a-day poverty line, more than 2.5 times as many as the 86 million in Nigeria, which has the second-largest population of the poor worldwide," the report said.

India had 30 per cent of its population living below poverty line at 224 million, it said.

Nearly 800 million people lived on less than USD 1.90 a day in 2013, around 100 million fewer poor people than in 2012, it added."

 

 

Mobo2000

Apart from my love for Hong Kong cinema, I know very little about China.   Really appreciating the discussion and detail in this thread, thanks babblers!

WWWTT

Nope and nope.

Looks like you caught me commenting without first reasearching. Kudoos for you! Fact still remains that at the 19th communist party congressional meeting, the date 2021 was set for the elimination of poverty in China. And income inequality was addressed andis now part of a new shift in focus for the communist party and government. Even after the congresional meeting, several of China's top billionaires came out in full support of Xi JinPing and the communist party new focus on income inequality.

Here's a westerners view of Xi JinPing's adress to the 19 CPC congress

Helga Zepp-LaRouche, president of the Germany-based Schiller Institute

It is extremely noteworthy, that President Xi put such a central emphasis on the commitment of the CPC to provide for a"better, happier life", "mei hao sheng huo" for the Chinese people. That Chinese leadership putting the concept upfront is a shining example for the whole world.

From my understanding, up until the 2017 congressional meeting, the focus was gdp numbers, and the CPC has now admitted that in order to stay true to their values, the focus must change..

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
It is extremely noteworthy, that President Xi put such a central emphasis on the commitment of the CPC to provide for a"better, happier life", "mei hao sheng huo" for the Chinese people. That Chinese leadership putting the concept upfront is a shining example for the whole world.

Right.  This stands in such glaring contrast with every other non-Chinese leader calling for the state to serve people a huge shit sandwich, except tiny, and with more shit in place of the bread.

There are actually words for westerners like us who fetishize and idolize Japanese culture to the point of insufferability.  Why isn't there a word for when it's China?

voice of the damned

WWWTT wrote:

 

Here's a westerners view of Xi JinPing's adress to the 19 CPC congress

Helga Zepp-LaRouche, president of the Germany-based Schiller Institute

You know that's the wife of Lyndon LaRouche, and a high-ranking member of his wackadoodle organization, right? The people who campaigned to lock up AIDS victims in the 80s.

voice of the damned

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
It is extremely noteworthy, that President Xi put such a central emphasis on the commitment of the CPC to provide for a"better, happier life", "mei hao sheng huo" for the Chinese people. That Chinese leadership putting the concept upfront is a shining example for the whole world.

Right.  This stands in such glaring contrast with every other non-Chinese leader calling for the state to serve people a huge shit sandwich, except tiny, and with more shit in place of the bread.

There are actually words for westerners like us who fetishize and idolize Japanese culture to the point of insufferability.  Why isn't there a word for when it's China?

You know that thought-experiment essay The Sacred Rac, where you read about  the seemingly savage Asu tribe who live "north of the Tamahumara of Mexico" and they worship an animal called the rac, which they are allowed to ride freely even though it kills thousands of people a year and pollutes the air with its flatulent emissions? And you think "What a bunch of backwards savages", until you realize that "Asu" is "USA" and "rac" is "car".

Sinophilia(or indeed, romanticization of any foreign country's government) is kind of like that, but in reverse. Banal statements that would be recognized as standard after-dinner fodder if delivered by Stephen Harper or Angela Merkel are invested with profound significance when delivered by President Xi.

WWWTT

voice of the damned wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

 

Here's a westerners view of Xi JinPing's adress to the 19 CPC congress

Helga Zepp-LaRouche, president of the Germany-based Schiller Institute

You know that's the wife of Lyndon LaRouche, and a high-ranking member of his wackadoodle organization, right? The people who campaigned to lock up AIDS victims in the 80s.

No I didn't know. I was checking out some links in regards to the 19th CPC congressional meeting and this was one of the foreigners in attendance/observence comments. I did a quick search to see who what this institute was and nothing came up right away. A bit more of a search(after you mentioned it) brought about some anti semitism accusations. But nothing really substantial. Still nothing about any diseases.

WWWTT

voice of the damned wrote:

Sinophilia(or indeed, romanticization of any foreign country's government) is kind of like that, but in reverse. Banal statements that would be recognized as standard after-dinner fodder if delivered by Stephen Harper or Angela Merkel are invested with profound significance when delivered by President Xi.

LOL! Ya I don't think so voice of the damned and Mr Magoo. But I give the both of you points for trying to turn it around by throwing in a couple of different names like HArper and Merkel and actually trying to dismiss realistic diplomatic accomplishments as mere infatuation. Countries like the Philipines, Sri Lanka and Pakistan are only a few on a long and growing list of countries that want to strengthen ties with China! But don't take my word for it.

Now I'm going to turn it around on both of you. Ready? I notice a pattern here. You guys seem real slow to give a non European person any credit for anything. So slow in fact, I believe the both of you wouldn't give a non European person any credit at all. Am I right? I really think that that's what this is all about honestly. For the first time in the industrialized revolution, China, a non white European (predominant) country, is leading the world! And doing so in a way without military terror, but with diplomacy, infrastructure growth and economic trade. As opposed to colonization war and exploitation. Now there's room for debate here but China has clearly established a unique path being embraced by even European countries such as Britain and Germany! 

I

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
No I didn't know. I was checking out some links in regards to the 19th CPC congressional meeting and this was one of the foreigners in attendance/observence comments. I did a quick search to see who what this institute was and nothing came up right away.

I just googled "Helga Zepp-LaRouche and it came up on the very first link.

Quote:
Now I'm going to turn it around on both of you. Ready? I notice a pattern here. You guys seem real slow to give a non European person any credit for anything. So slow in fact, I believe the both of you wouldn't give a non European person any credit at all. Am I right?

You caught us out.  And we would have got away with it if it weren't for you meddling kids!

Quote:
China, a non white European (predominant) country, is leading the world!

Yes.  Leading us all with their wisdom.  Of course.  But just for lolz, google "frost boy China" and then come back and tell us how China is leading the world in something, or something.

 

 

Huh.

 

 

voice of the damned

Well, I'm busted. I don't give Asians credit for anything. I actually do my own dentistry work with an icepick and pliers, while guzzling whiskey as anesethetic, because I don't trust the dentists over here.

voice of the damned

And speaking seriously for a sec, as one of the people on this board who is not entirely opposed to more pipelines heading to the Pacific(certain caveats applied), with China as the target market, would  I take this view if I was against Chinese development, or Canada having closer ties? I think Canada should sell the Chinese a product that THEY need for THEIR economic development. How is that an anti-Chinese position?   

NDPP

'Make Trade, Not War' is China's Daring Plan in the Middle East   -   by Pepe Escobar

http://www.atimes.com/article/make-trade-not-war-chinas-daring-plan-midd...

"Under the Belt and Road Initiative, Beijing aims to connect western China to the eastern Mediterranean. From the US point of view, the National Security Strategy document highlighted how China and Russia are trying to shape a new geopolitical environment in the region, which contrasts sharply with Washington's aims and interests..."

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