Closing down Guantanamo Bay

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Fidel
Closing down Guantanamo Bay

Closing down Guantanamo Bay (rabble podcast from December)

Quote:

Since 2001, the United States has imprisoned over 700 people at the Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp. Hundreds of people remain imprisoned without the benefit of any of the legal structures in place on the US mainland.

The National Lawyers Guild is calling on Barack Obama to release and repatriate prisoners there or send them for trial. We speak with Marjorie Cohn, president of the Guild.

Cohn says habeus corpus denied alleged terrorists. Gitmo is a legal black hole etc

NLG has called on Barack Obama to close Gitmo and repatriate, resettle, or provide internationally agreed upon legal trials for the accused held for several years at Guantanamo. "Kangaroo military justice" at Guantanamo. Three Obama advisers suggest that Obama's administration may create "new" US courts to try Guantanamo prisoners held illegally, even though existing US court system is perfectly adequate for trying alleged terrorists.

Who is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed? And after five years of denying guilt in masterminding 9-11 terrorism,  why did he confess to attacking a bank founded after his arrest?  In the words of Lee Harvey Oswald, is KSM a patsy for the American inquisition?

Issues Pages: 
ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

Obama Signs Order for Closure

Quote:

US President Barack Obama has ordered the closure of the Guantanamo Bay prison camp within one year.

The order fulfils a long-standing pledge by Mr Obama.

At Mr Obama's request, military judges have already suspended several of the trials of terror suspects at the Guantanamo detention centre.

He has also ordered a review of the military trials and a ban of harsh interrogation techniques that many consider to amount to torture.

 I think the news said there's going to be a press conference about it, in about an hour. 

 

Fidel

 Tripoli seeks repatriation of Libyans held in Guantanamo

Quote:

TRIPOLI (AFP) — Libya said Thursday it has asked the United States to repatriate nine Libyans held since 2002 in the Guantanamo Bay detention camp.

The request came as new US President Barack Obama ordered the closure of the Guantanamo prison within a year, in a dramatic repudiation of his predecessor George W. Bush.

"We are very concerned by the lack of information on the nine Libyans held in Guantanamo and we have asked for their repatriation many times," said Salah Abdessalem, head of a human rights association affiliated with the Kadhafi Foundation, a charity led by Libyan leader Moamer Kadhafi's son. . .

Despite his order to close Guantanamo, Obama has not resolved the question of what to do with terror suspects who have been there for years, some without being charged

Some without being charged? All "charges" by Kangaroo court systems are illegal period. Geneva conventions have been violated.

The US National Lawyers Guild urged Oabama to shut down this abomination of justice the day he takes office

Six Algerians have been held at Guantanamo for seven years and who were residing in Bosnia-Herzegovina at the time . They were arrested in Bosnia(1000 miles from Afghanistan battlefield and the phony war) in 2001 for allegedly plotting to bomb the US embassy in Sarajevo. They were released from Sarajevo due to a lack of evidence implicating them and were sent to Guantanamo. A US judge ordered their release - no if's and's or buts - Bush admin setup two kangaroo courts - one to declare them "enemy combatants" 2nd to try them for war crmes - total hypocrisy.

And if the only evidence against Khalid Sheihk Mohammed is a confession extracted under torture after five years of denying any guilt whatsoever and in fact accusing his accusers of violating international law - and he is not found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt by a fair trial in the US - then that would mean that this current phony war on terror in Asia and Middle East are about as legitimate as Saddam's guilt for allegedly possessing weapons of mass destruction "WMD" I wonder how many of them will die mysteriously in the meantime or be rushed to execution?

Fidel

Chaos in the 9/11 courtroom 

In Guantánamo, the alleged 9/11 "mastermind" and his four co-defendants don't know the rules -- and neither does the judge

Quote:

When alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his four co-defendants entered the Guantánamo Bay courtroom Monday, they came armed with a plan to martyr themselves at the hands of a tainted legal system. By the afternoon, the plan was in disarray.

The five defendants wanted to plead guilty, but only if it brought them their desired outcome. "If we plead guilty, can we still be sentenced to death?" Mohammed asked U.S. Army Col. Stephen Henley, the military commission judge responsible for trying the men.

No one in the courtroom knew the answer, including Col. Henley. In perhaps the most important terrorism trial in American history, the rules of the game are still being made up along the way.

The judge then revealed the dilemma. All five defendants faced the death penalty, but in the seven-plus years since the military commissions were first announced, the government had obtained just three guilty verdicts. No one had attempted to plead guilty in a death penalty case. And the judge did not know whether or not he could accept a guilty plea in a death penalty case.

Forever tainted

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Quote:
The chief judge for US military commissions at the Guantanamo Bay detention center rejected Thursday the request of government prosecutors to delay the proceedings against alleged USS Cole plotter Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri.

Prosecutors had sought the delay in response to an executive order issued last week by President Barack Obama ordering the closure of the Guantanamo Bay military prison within one year, and instructing Secretary of Defense Robert Gates immediately to halt the military commission proceedings pending a comprehensive review of all Guantanamo detentions under the supervision of the Attorney General.

In his order, US Army Colonel James Pohl wrote:

Quote:
On its face, the request to delay the arraignment is not reasonable. The public interest in a speedy trial will be harmed by the delay in the arraignment. Granting the continuance do [sic] not serve the interests of justice. The government request for a continuance in the arraignment until after 22 May 2009 is DENIED.

Pentagon officials were stunned by Pohl's ruling and indicated that they were reviewing the ruling.


[url=Source[/url]">http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2009/01/guantanamo-judge-rejects-g...

Fidel

Obama’s Torture Loopholes

Quote:

Like many reacting to the president’s orders, ACLU Executive Director Anthony Romero expressed unbridled enthusiasm:

These executive orders represent a giant step forward. Putting an end to Guantanamo, torture and secret prisons is a civil liberties trifecta, and President Obama should be highly commended for this bold and decisive action so early in his administration on an issue so critical to restoring an America we can be proud of again.[1]

Torture by US officials has long been illegal, but the president’s executive order entitled “Ensuring Lawful Interrogations” seems to clarify, to some extent, what activities are proscribed.  Disappointingly, though, this order contains loopholes big enough to drive a FEMA camp train through them..

So any US government agency can carry on abducting and torturing  by "counterterrorism" operations except the CIA and ferret them off to secret US military gulags other than Gitmo.

===

Fidel Castro demands unconditional return of Guantanamo

 

Fidel

This is somewhat related to the torture and renditions. Apparently the US military has taken on these menial tasks, or what the CIA used to do covertly and is now focussed on more indirect methods of political interference in other countries, and thusly creating some minor separation of powers between various shadow government bureaucracies and cosmetic leadership

[url=Investigative">http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12686][... reporter Seymour Hersh describes 'executive assassination ring'[/url]

Quote:

At a “Great Conversations” event at the University of Minnesota last night, legendary investigative reporter Seymour Hersh may have made a little more news than he intended by talking about new alleged instances of domestic spying by the CIA, and about an ongoing covert military operation that he called an “executive assassination ring.”

Hersh spoke with great confidence about these findings from his current reporting, which he hasn’t written about yet.

In an email exchange afterward, Hersh said that his statements were “an honest response to a question” from the event’s moderator, U of M Political Scientist Larry Jacobs and “not something I wanted to dwell about in public.”

Hersh didn’t take back the statements, which he said arise from reporting he is doing for a book, but that it might be a year or two before he has what he needs on the topic to be “effective...that is, empirical, for even the most skeptical.”

The evening of great conversation, featuring Walter Mondale and Hersh, moderated by Jacobs and titled “America’s Constitutional Crisis,” looked to be a mostly historical review of events that have tested our Constitution, by a journalist and a high government official who had experience with many of the crises. . .

At the end of one answer by Hersh about how these things tend to happen, Jacobs asked: “And do they continue to happen to this day?” . . .

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Re the preceding post:

[url=Seymour">http://www.democracynow.org/2009/3/31/seymour_hersh_secret_us_forces_car... Hersh: Secret US Forces Carried Out Assassinations in a Dozen Countries, Including in Latin America[/url] - Democracy Now. 

Quote:
AMY GOODMAN: One question: Is the assassination wing continuing under President Obama?

SEYMOUR HERSH: How do I know? I hope not.

Fidel

[url=http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE53H0DG20090420]Five years and 183 waterboardings later, KSM confessed to everything[/url] Easy as pie. So now we know exactly who plotted and schemed the 9/11 attacks, besides the fact that KSM was one mentally and physically tough human being. Well, at least he once was.  No need for evidence or a real trial. And never mind reconsidering the phony war on terror in Iraq, Afghanistan, and around the world, because it's all out in the open now. "No one expects the inquisition."

 

Fidel

[url=http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13495]U.S. has a 45-year history of torture[/url]

 

[url=http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13512]California Students' Call for Condi War Crimes Probe[/url]

Initiative of Stanford Anti-War Alumni and Students

 

Fidel

[url=http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13677]"Rumblings about the impossibility of closing Guantanamo": Action, cut![/url]

 

Quote:

Pornography, feminisation of the enemy? Confused over what Obama's view on Guantanamo and the backlog of torture images from Abu Ghraib? Join the club.

The centrepiece of United States President Barack Obama's PR campaign to show the world the US is the nice cop was to end the military tribunals, which he called "an enormous failure" during last year's presidential campaign, and close the infamous Guantanamo prison. This was Obama's first major "achievement" upon assuming office.

Rumblings about the impossibility of closing Guantanamo were being heard even as Obama took office. It appears there's no place to send the prisoners, most of whom are innocent of anything other than fighting invaders, if that. Congress does not want to allow them to come to stay in equally notorious US jails, where overcrowding, violence, drugs and AIDS are endemic. Nor is Congress willing to fork over any money to close Guantanamo. Of course this is nonsense. Venezuela's president offered to take them all, but Obama dare not accept any favours from someone so principled, lest his house of cards come tumbling down...

 

Theyre bringing in McChrystal to head up the torture program in Afghanistan. Wonderful. The struggle for democracy continues

 

 

Debater

Obama said today he still plans to go ahead and close it:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090521/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama

Fidel

Debater wrote:

Obama said today he still plans to go ahead and close it:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090521/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama

He insisted the transfer would not endanger Americans and promised to work with lawmakers to develop a system for holding detainees who can't be tried and can't be turned loose from the Navy-run prison in Cuba.

"There are no neat or easy answers here," Obama said

Yes there are easy answers to the criminal regime's American inquisition, Obomba:

Quote:
"It's disappointing that Obama is seeking to revive rather than end this failed experiment," said Jonathan Hafetz, a national security attorney at the American Civil Liberties Union.

 

[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8052999.stmT]"There is no detainee at Guantanamo who cannot be tried and shouldn't be tried in the regular federal courts system. This is perpetuating the Bush administration's misguided detention policy."[/url] Kenneth Roth, head of Human Rights Watch, said: "By resurrecting this failed Bush administration idea, President Obama is backtracking dangerously on his reform agenda."

USsA still backsliding on democracy after all this time.

Unionist

Debater wrote:

Obama said today he still plans to go ahead and close it:

Sure he does. When all the detainees are dead, perhaps:

[url=The">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6232610/Guant... prison at Guantanamo Bay will not be closed by President Barack Obama's deadline of January 22, according to reports.[/url]

[url=Khadr">http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/09/26/guantanamo-bay-closure-omar-kh... lawyer not surprised by Gitmo delay[/url]

But don't worry, everything is legal:

[url=President">http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/09/president-obama-reaffirm... Obama Reaffirms Power of Indefinite Detention[/url]

 

Ghislaine

Hope and change, unionist, hope and change! Next on his list is 30-40 k more troops in Afghanistan and nudging us towards staying past 2011.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture
Stargazer

Obama is not going to do squat about gitmo. He continues to pander to the Rethuglicans and he does what he is told. He needs to grow a spine and stop with this nonpartisian stuff. He didn't get voted in to work with the neo-Cons.

Fidel

He's a cosmetic leader like all those before him.

Diogenes Diogenes's picture

I am astonished at how much Obama has capitulated to the forces resisting him.  It shows how he little power he really has.

 

Stargazer

Sadly, it shows the power the far right has.

abnormal

Unionist wrote:

Debater wrote:

Obama said today he still plans to go ahead and close it:

Sure he does. When all the detainees are dead, perhaps:

[url=The">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6232610/Guant... prison at Guantanamo Bay will not be closed by President Barack Obama's deadline of January 22, according to reports.[/url]

[url=Khadr">http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/09/26/guantanamo-bay-closure-omar-kh... lawyer not surprised by Gitmo delay[/url]

But don't worry, everything is legal:

[url=President">http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/09/president-obama-reaffirm... Obama Reaffirms Power of Indefinite Detention[/url]

 

Everything is legal (not quite what he said during the campaign but hey, who believes politicians anyways).

But it looks like they will end up closing Gitmo - doesn't mean anyone will be released, just that they'll close Gitmo and open [url=[=red]Son">http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE58Q02C20090927][b][=r... of Gitmo[/][/url] in it's place.  Mission accomplished and one campaign pledge honoured.

NDPP

Former Guantanamo Prisoner Binyam Mohamed Speaks: (vid)

http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/09/27/former-guantanamo-prisoner-b...

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Diogenes wrote:

It shows how he little power he really has.

It shows nothing of the sort. Obomba is the most powerful man in the world.

It's all a matter of how he chooses to exercise that power.

Frmrsldr

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/29/AR200909...

Retired military officers push to close Guantanamo Bay prison.

Frmrsldr
kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Oh well I never drank the Obama kool-aid and I keep saying that with him America has merely put the velvet glove back over the iron fist. Bush was just not subtle enough but one has seen this from Democratic Presidents before.  They are all imperialists no matter what language they use.

Diogenes Diogenes's picture

M. Spector wrote:

It shows nothing of the sort. Obomba is the most powerful man in the world.

It's all a matter of how he chooses to exercise that power.

That's a little cynical I think. I believe he would like to fulfill his stated intentions. Are you suggesting he says one thing and does another because that's the way he is?

abnormal

M. Spector wrote:

Diogenes wrote:

It shows how he little power he really has.

It shows nothing of the sort. Obomba is the most powerful man in the world.

It's all a matter of how he chooses to exercise that power.

If you accept that the career politicians in the Democratic Party are eating his lunch I suppose you can talk about "his" choice.  But reality is that he's coming across as someone in full election campaign mode who not only doesn't understand the difference between campaigning for President and being President but is so far out of his depth it'd be laughable if he wasn't President. 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Quote:
In four years of researching and writing about Guantánamo, I have become used to uncovering shocking information, but for sheer cynicism, I am struggling to think of anything that compares to the revelations contained in the unclassified ruling in the habeas corpus petition of Fouad al-Rabiah, a Kuwaiti prisoner whose release was ordered last week by Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly (PDF). In the ruling, to put it bluntly, it was revealed that the U.S. government tortured an innocent man to extract false confessions and then threatened him until he obligingly repeated those lies as though they were the truth.

[url=http://www.counterpunch.org/worthington10012009.html#]Andy Worthington[/url]

Fidel

M. Spector wrote:
Quote:
. In the ruling, to put it bluntly, it was revealed that the U.S. government tortured an innocent man to extract false confessions and then threatened him until he obligingly repeated those lies as though they were the truth.

Khalid Sheihk Mohamed said similarly that he gave them false information under torture. It's what they wanted and were determined to extract from him and others.

Canadian [url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10144]Michel Chossudovsky said:[/url]

Quote:
The lies underlying 9/11 are accepted by the mainstream antiwar movement. US foreign policy is condemned, but the "Global War on Terrorism" is upheld. Wittingly or unwittingly, this endorsement of the GWOT by those who claim to be opposed to the US administration, provides a legitimacy to the inquisitorial order, which underlies the actual practice of US foreign policy. 

On the other hand, those who have serious doubts regarding the official 9/11 narrative, including the 9/11 Truth Movement, are branded as heretics and nonbelievers. The lies underlying 9/11 are accepted by the mainstream antiwar movement...

"Heresy cannot be destroyed unless heretics are destroyed and ... their defenders and [supporters] are destroyed,..." Pope Gregory IX, 1232

Frmrsldr

Obama's Defense Bill restarts GTMO Tribunals:

Jason Ditz wrote:

With less than three months left to make good on his promise to close the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay within one year and virtually no effort made so far to do so, President Barack Obama has signed the military funding bill which will effectively restart military tribunals at the facility.

Today's move finalizes a plan concocted by the president in May, which would make a handful of cosmetic changes to the tribunal system, giving detainees a little control over their legal counsel and barring certain types of hearsay evidence.

Though some have praised the moves, many insist they don't go nearly far enough, and that the tribunals continue to have features, including the possibility of trying children, which violate international law.

Despite the move, President Obama insists that he is "serious" about eventually closing the Guantanamo facility, though he no longer appears to be touting his January 22, 2010 deadline and this is widely expected to have fallen by the wayside.

http://news.antiwar.com/2009/10/28/obamas-defense-bill-restarts-gitmo-tr...

Unionist

abnormal wrote:

But it looks like they will end up closing Gitmo - doesn't mean anyone will be released, just that they'll close Gitmo and open [url=[=red]Son">http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE58Q02C20090927][b][=r... of Gitmo[/][/url] in it's place.  Mission accomplished and one campaign pledge honoured.

No kidding. Hope springs eternal. Change comes with the fall:

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/11/18/obama-guantanamo.html][=bl... won't close by January - Obama[/color][/url]

Of course, given that this joker hasn't kept one single promise (at least, not the good ones), he might be lying this time too... Watch for Guantanamo to close in December!

ETA: Oh, hang on - this is really cool - look at this smug group of thugs, last January, when Obama signed an "executive order" to close Guantanamo by this January:

al-Qa'bong

It looks as if the good ol' boys approve of what their token colored fella has done.

abnormal

al-Qa'bong wrote:

... what their token colored fella has done.

Easily summarized:-

[IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/x3hkdh.jpg[/IMG]

Fidel

[url=http://hometownstation.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=... Asks For Information On 9/11 Terrorists[/url]

Ya good luck with that, Bucky boy.

"Heresy cannot be destroyed unless heretics are destroyed and ... their defenders and [supporters] are destroyed,..." Pope Gregory IX, 1232

no1important

Obama really is a lot of talk but not much action. Very disappointing.

NDPP

Guantanamo: The Definitive Prisoner List (Updated 2010)

http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2010/01/04/guantanamo-the-definitive-pr...

"I hope that the list and its references provide a useful antidote to the current scaremongering regarding the failed Christmas plane bomber, Omar Farouk Abdulmutallab, and his alleged ties with one - just one - of the 574 prisoners released from Guantanamo, in a Yemen based al-Qaeda cell.

This purported connection is being used by those who want the evil stain of Guantanamo to endure forever...but also to argue that no more of the Yemenis - who make up nearly half of the remaining prisoners - should be released even though the ex prisoner in question is a Saudi, even though no more than a dozen or so of the 574 prisoners released have gone on to have any involvement whatsoever with terrorism, and even though all of these were released during the presidency of George W Bush.."

Fidel

[url=http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/11/18/the-logic-of-the-911-trials-... Worthington wrote:[/url]

Quote:
In the case of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, for example, the decision to prosecute him in a federal court comes over six years late. Despite having confessed to his involvement in the 9/11 attacks to an al-Jazeera reporter before his capture by US forces in March 2003, he was held for three and a half years in secret prisons run by the CIA, where he was subjected to torture (including...

Worthington condemns the inquisition and torture etc. But he doesn't mention the fact that confessions obtained by torture are worthless and not to be confused with legally obtained evidence. Such nuances of democracy are difficult concepts for most on the political right to grasp. 

And then there is tidbit about Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's obvious guilt after having confessed to Al Jazeera's Yosri Fouda. It's a foregone conclusion at that point. Except that [url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5087]Chaim Kupferberg[/url] says KSM was one of several patsies fitted up for masterminding 9/11. And apparently Yosri Fouda is a self-admitted prolific liar.

"I do not really believe there is such a thing as al-Qaida, the organization; there is al-Qaida, the mind-set" -Yosri Fouda

Unionist

abnormal, on September 27, 2009 wrote:

 

But it looks like they will end up closing Gitmo - doesn't mean anyone will be released, just that they'll close Gitmo and open [url=[=red]Son">http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE58Q02C20090927][b][=r... of Gitmo[/][/url] in it's place.  Mission accomplished and one campaign pledge honoured.

It's not good to believe professional liars. Reality check:

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2011/01/07/us/politics/politics-us-obama-... signs law to keep Guantanamo open[/url]

Quote:

Making plain he would fight to repeal language in the law obstructing civilian U.S. trials for Guantanamo terrorism suspects, Obama said he was left with no choice but to sign the defense authorization act for fiscal 2011.

"Despite my strong objection to these provisions, which my administration has consistently opposed, I have signed this act because of the importance of authorizing appropriations for, among other things, our military activities in 2011," Obama said in a statement.

Translation for decent human beings: "If I don't agree to sign this law, they won't let me send more soldiers to murder people in Afghanistan."

Thanks, Obama. Imagine, we could have had McCain.

 

Frmrsldr

There seems to be no end to the nuttery on this issue:

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/01/18/rep-mckeon-vows-to-keep-gitmo-open/

Fidel

Frmrsldr wrote:

There seems to be no end to the nuttery on this issue:

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/01/18/rep-mckeon-vows-to-keep-gitmo-open/

Rep. McKeon was so enthused that he vowed to keep Guantanamo Bay open at any cost, and that he would use all the powers of his new position to prevent any efforts that might lead to it even theoretically being closed at some point.

Certifiable imo. Didn't the Nazis at least allow the Red Cross to inspect the luxurious living conditions in the holiday camps for Jews and other terrorists? They could at least put on a show for the sake of propagandizing the issue. Operating on a need to know basis, and the world doesn't need to know apparently.

 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Guantanamo military trials resume

excerpt:

President Barack Obama approved Monday the resumption of military trials for detainees at the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, ending a two-year ban.

It was the latest acknowledgement that the detention facility Obama had vowed to shut down within a year of taking office will remain open for some time to come.

"I strongly believe that the American system of justice is a key part of our arsenal in the war against al-Qaeda and its affiliates, and we will continue to draw on all aspects of our justice system — including Article III courts — to ensure that our security and our values are strengthened," the president said in a statement. Article III courts are civilian federal courts.

Under Obama's order, Defence Secretary Robert Gates will rescind his January 2009 ban against bringing new cases against the terror suspects at the detention facility. Closure of the facility has become untenable because of questions about where terror suspects would be held.

josh

Another in a long line of broken promises.

"It is virtually impossible to imagine how one closes Guantanamo in light of this executive order," said Anthony Romero, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union. "In a little over two years, the Obama administration has done a complete about-face."

 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/07/AR201103...

Unionist

abnormal, on Sept. 27, 2009 wrote:

Unionist wrote:

Debater wrote:

Obama said today he still plans to go ahead and close it:

Sure he does. When all the detainees are dead, perhaps:

[url=The">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6232610/Guant... prison at Guantanamo Bay will not be closed by President Barack Obama's deadline of January 22, according to reports.[/url]

[url=Khadr">http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/09/26/guantanamo-bay-closure-omar-kh... lawyer not surprised by Gitmo delay[/url]

But don't worry, everything is legal:

[url=President">http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/09/president-obama-reaffirm... Obama Reaffirms Power of Indefinite Detention[/url]

 

Everything is legal (not quite what he said during the campaign but hey, who believes politicians anyways).

But it looks like they will end up closing Gitmo - doesn't mean anyone will be released, just that they'll close Gitmo and open [url=[=red]Son">http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE58Q02C20090927][b][=r... of Gitmo[/][/url] in it's place.  Mission accomplished and one campaign pledge honoured.

Yeah, sure thing, abnormal, right on. Meanwhile, I think I may have been right about closing it after every detainee is dead, maybe:

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/10/guantanamo-bay-us-military]G...ánamo inmate becomes ninth detainee to die at prison camp [/url]

howeird beale

Gitmo's a disgrace. it was a disgrace when the yanks, having had their mafia kleptocracy overthrown, didn't give it back.

And its a disgrace now for the myriad reasons listed above. If Eichmann could get a reasonably fair trail in public, then so should everyone else.

Gitmo stands for torture, and shitting on an array of human and legal rights; period.

 

 

Now can we, on a progressive board, refrain from using disgusting terms like "token colored fella?" or reprinting OBVIOUSLY racist photoshops, OBVIOUSLY from far right sites: the world apology tour (a refrain of the teabaggers)??? the oversized bling chain???

Huh, huh. Its ok for us to use the words and the images, we're the good guys. So what if we're using a term that used to scrawled all over toilets and water fountains in Capetown and Alabama?

Jesus Christ, Have some shame. I dont care if it is 4 years old. Where have the mods been on this one? Out for a smoke?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Here is one of my favourite images of Obama.  I hope it is progressive enough for you. The man is a murderous tool of the military security complex that runs Washington and is trying to control the world.  I don't fucking care what colour he is he is just as evil as the alternative when it comes to murder.  Yup a WEEKLY KILL LIST is how a peace prize winner should act. Heaven forbid anyone should make fun of his Nobel Prize. You did know the bling was a medal didn't you?

 

 

http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/what-obama-has-wrought

 

I also like this one.

 

http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/freedom-rider-democrats-show-th...

howeird beale

No problem with those. And I'm not wrong.

I know what the Nobel Prize looks like. I also know what a rope chain looks like. I can also do a google image search and see the kinds of far right sites that this image has been distributed on.

Charming.

Hillary's just as guilty as he is. Should we dust off every misogynistic epithet too?

Tactics matter.

NDPP

I think the term 'progressive board' must be taken with more than a few grains of salt, given that progressives and their positions are regularly attacked/reviled while right-wing, reactionary positions in support of imperialist war or US imperial aims, Zionism are regularly espoused here...

howeird beale

Sure. Let's go the same way as the Galloway thread. If its our ally saying it, lets not call him on it, lets DEFEND it. When it becomes clear the behaviour is reprehensible, we wont be adult enough to say "Yeah, actually, George was a complete pig on this one" we'll just go silent. Never admit error, never set a standard for ourselves a little higher than that which we oppose.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I wanted Obama to pick Condelesa Rice as his running mate the first time around because even before he was elected it was evident he was going to be a war President.

So you think the writers at Black Agenda are racist and not progressive.  I guess you know best since from the heights of your bully pulpit you can see everything clearly.

howeird beale

What's wrong with you. My response is there:

No problem with those.

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