Corbyn’s Labour and the path to power

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NDPP

Bipartisan Brexit Vote May Face Boycott

https://youtu.be/1uMLfp7EFSo

"Delaying Brexit past March 29 would anger large segments of the British electorate and hurt both the Conservative and Labour parties. 'They'll keep you voting until they get the result they want.'

nicky

There was a referendum in the 70s in which Britain voted to enter the EU.

by the logic of some of you the result of that referendum should have been inviolableregardless of how public sentiment may have evolved.

 

nicky
josh

nicky wrote:

There was a referendum in the 70s in which Britain voted to enter the EU.

by the logic of some of you the result of that referendum should have been inviolableregardless of how public sentiment may have evolved.

 

40 years between votes then?

NDPP

"They'll keep you voting until they get the result they want."

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

We still have time to stop a Tory Brexit

quote:

Conference policy, passed in September after a record-breaking number of motions submitted by members, committed Labour to explore all options to prevent a Tory Brexit. Opinion poll after opinion poll shows overwhelming support for a public vote among Labour voters. Pressure on the leadership came not only from centrist MPs who, after years of threatening to do so, rather anticlimactically left the party to form a new grouping. Primarily, it came from the grassroots – through countless letters, petitions, street stalls, demonstrations, hundreds of motions debated by CLPs.

These calls, however, were regularly met with a backlash. It’s an attempt to undermine Jeremy Corbyn, we heard. Others foresaw a disaster for Labour’s electoral chances. These concerns were not entirely unreasonable. The most prominent advocates of new referendum do indeed include long-standing Corbynsceptics, using the issue of Europe for their own factional gain. In the media, the campaign is more often than not represented by the same tired establishment faces who so catastrophically failed last time and show no signs of having learned the lessons (if they had, they could best prove it by taking a big step back.)

However, passionate supporters of staying in Europe include many of those who secured Corbyn his leadership victory and strong election result in 2017. Young people who turned out to vote in long unseen numbers, committed Labour activists who woke up at sunrise to knock on doors in marginal seats – it’s impossible to envision a Corbyn-led government without not just their passive backing but active enthusiasm. Allowing a Tory Brexit to happen – whether of the May or Rees-Mogg variety – wouldn’t be something they’d find easy to forgive. Neither would communities, including many Leave areas, where thousands of jobs and millions in EU funding are at risk of disappearing. Remain voters, often taken for granted, have already started to slip away, with a recent poll showing Labour 13 points behind the Tories and only five ahead of the Independent Group.

From a strictly electoral perspective, campaigning for a referendum may be risky but not more so than the alternative. From a moral point of view, failing to do so would be inexcusable. Whether a left-wing Brexit is hypothetically possible makes for a fascinating theoretical debate. However, it was not on the table when the Leave campaign was spearheaded by migrant-bashers and free market fundamentalists, and it is certainly not an option now when the country is staring down the barrel.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Activists urge Labour to “campaign for a public vote, not just vote for one”

Campaigners for a fresh EU referendum have welcomed Labour’s backing but admitted that an amendment supporting the move could still fail to gain MPs’ approval. Left-wing cross-party group Another Europe is Possible has described the new commitment made by Jeremy Corbyn on Monday as a “huge step forward” – however it also says the party must actively campaign ahead of the vote.

The organisation has drafted a new motion for Constituency Labour Parties (CLPs) to debate and pass. “Labour must now campaign against Brexit on the doorstep, and prepare to win a fresh referendum,” reads the motion, which resolves that “all Labour MPs must vote in favour of a public vote on the final Brexit deal”.

quote:

AEIP organiser Ana Oppenheim said: “Labour’s move towards backing a public vote on Brexit is a huge step forward. This will save Labour’s electoral chances, and it is the right thing to do. The overwhelming majority of Labour members, and its voters in every seat, back a fresh public vote. Brexit is a Tory project – it is about driving down regulatory standards, wages and rights. Allowing Brexit to happen will make it much harder for us to implement a radical manifesto. Stopping it gives us the chance to bring down the government and put forward a radical vision for transforming Britain and Europe.

Another Europe is Possible/Jess Hurd

NDPP

Galloway: 'Labour Is Now Wide Open To Conservatives Election - UK vs EU'

https://youtu.be/p08tbeo3Y7E

"But Labour, by putting the mark of Cain on its own forehead, as the anti-Brexit party  is now wide open to a Conservative election - Britain versus Europe', says George Galloway as the Labour Party will back second vote but risks losing Leave-vote leaving heartlands."

Corbyn has shown himelf completely ineffective in opposing the Zio-Blairite-EU party conspirators and the results and reaction from Labour's base will sadly soon demonstrate this.

NDPP

Labour MP Faces Party Censure Over Antisemitism Film

https://t.co/D1apGcBwBA

"The Labour MP Chris Williamson faces a dressing down from party officials after he helped arrange a screening in parliament of a film defending Jackie Walker, the activist suspended from the party over comments about antisemitism..."

 

Witch Hunt: The Silencing of Pro-Palestinian UK Labour Activists [Must Watch]

https://youtu.be/ASqyg2FT5-0

The problem is Israel. The solution is resistance. Not appeasement.

JKR

Car salesperson: You agree to buy a car from us?

Car buyer: Yes. The cars you spoke about all sound great!

Car salesperson: Here’s the cars we have for you.

Car buyer: I don’t like any of them!

Car salesperson: You already agreed to buy a car. It’s too late for you to change your mind. If you don’t pick a car, we’ll pick one for you and charge your credit card!

Car buyer: Nooooooooo!

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
by the logic of some of you the result of that referendum should have been inviolableregardless of how public sentiment may have evolved.

To their credit, the Brexiters did at least wait until the UK joined the EU before suddenly leaving four decades later.

Quote:

Car salesperson: You already agreed to buy a car. It’s too late for you to change your mind. If you don’t pick a car, we’ll pick one for you and charge your credit card!

Car buyer: Nooooooooo!

In this hypothetical, did the car buyer demand to know anything specific about these cars, or did he/she simply agree to buy a car?  Because people who really care what car they get might be more inclined to ask about it before agreeing to buy it, wouldn't they?  If it was important to them?

What kind of car buyer cheerfully agrees to buy "a car", then afterwards decides "oh, no, sorry, I meant a very specific car -- the perfect car, really"?

JKR

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
by the logic of some of you the result of that referendum should have been inviolableregardless of how public sentiment may have evolved.

To their credit, the Brexiters did at least wait until the UK joined the EU before suddenly leaving four decades later.

Quote:

Car salesperson: You already agreed to buy a car. It’s too late for you to change your mind. If you don’t pick a car, we’ll pick one for you and charge your credit card!

Car buyer: Nooooooooo!

In this hypothetical, did the car buyer demand to know anything specific about these cars, or did he/she simply agree to buy a car?  Because people who really care what car they get might be more inclined to ask about it before agreeing to buy it, wouldn't they?  If it was important to them?

What kind of car buyer cheerfully agrees to buy "a car", then afterwards decides "oh, no, sorry, I meant a very specific car -- the perfect car, really"?

If Brexit goes ahead maybe UK’ers should be able to take the government to small claims court?  ;)

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Or, in keeping with the public spectacle of it all, maybe Judge Judy?

Really, though, if the ballot question had been something like:

The UK could have wrote:
Do you feel that the UK should:

a) remain a member of the EU

b) cease to be a member of the EU, provided this can be achieved without change to the Irish border

... and then the government came back and said "well, we did the best we could, but we have to change the Irish border" then I would agree with a new vote (or, for that matter, no new vote and no Brexit either).

But while I'm sure there are some "leavers" who feel that at this point the terms of Brexit will not be what their imaginations hoped for, it's hard to say "they didn't get the Brexit they expected" when the ballot question promised them no specific Brexit at all.  And no, I don't really care if "Nigel Farage exaggerated!"

JKR

I lot of UK’ers seem to care that Nigel Farage and other leaders of Leave exaggerated. Those exaggerations seem to have come home to roost.

NDPP

Loud & Clear: Labour Declares Support For New Referendum As UK Faces 'No Deal' Brexit (podcast)

http://t.co/ICA3O6MJLU

"...I think what's happening is that Jeremy Corbyn was warned by Tom Watson, arguably not the most supportive of deputy leaders, there would be further defections from the party. And one of the issues that Watson was keen to get changed because he's a very strong supporter of staying in the EU, was on this Brexit issue. So Corbyn came out and said he supports having a second vote. 

And the significance of this in terms of the Labour Party and its chances of winning the next general election we are told might be on June 6...It's high risk to say the least, and I'll tell you why. Because out of the 64 seats that Labour's targeted to win in the next general election, that it needs to win to form a government, 45 of them are Leave-voting seats. And the 13 key Tory-held marginals that Labour absolutely must win to have any chance of forming the next government were all strong Leave-voting constituencies. In other words, 60% or more of these electors voted to leave the EU. So they're the target seats Labour's got to win and they're almost all pro-Leave. And on top of that, the six seats that Labour did lose in 2017, were all pro-Leave.

I think Corbyn obviously hopes this will stem the tide of defections. However, the other big issue that these defectors gave as a reason for leaving was so-called antisemitism they allege 'infests' the Labour Party. It's certainly not backed up by evidence, we've got to be frank here. Six of the eight that left last week were supporters of the Labour Friends of Israel. They have been unhappy with Corbyn from the word go because he has been a veteran campaigner for Palestinian rights all of his political career. So there's that issue which has not been cleared up yet.

The point of the matter with the Blairites is that I don't think this will be enough to placate them because they really want him out, let's be honest. So he's given in on this one but they're  out to get him and won't stop until he's gone. I've always argued that his policy of making concessions to those who are his implacable enemies is a mistake. 

What made Corbyn so popular in 2015 when he won the leadership of the Labour Party against all the odds and how he won again a year later when he was challenged, was his radicalism. He was the anti-establishment candidate. He was taking on the elites, 'for the many not the few'. That was his slogan. Now it's easy for the Tories to say look at this guy, he's for the establishment. He wants to stay in the EU, where have his 'anti-establishment' credentials gone? The danger is that Corbyn, in his attempts to placate the Blairites is going to lose what attracted voters to him in the first place.

What's going to be on the ballot-paper? I've always been against a second vote, to be honest, because we had the vote in 2016, it went on forever and ever, I don't buy the argument people weren't informed, we had debates at the time and the information was out there. The decision was made. There's a general mood to just get on with the thing. This is going to cause more problems than it solves.

The EU needs Britain more than Britain needs the EU. The balance of trade is very much in the EU's favour, particularly Germany. Germany has a massive trade surplus with Britain. Germany industry, Germany car makers are desperate for some sort of deal. So it's really like a poker game, a game of bluff. And I'm fairly sure if we didn't have a deal by March 27th we'd have Merkel and others on the phone. It's just a matter of holding one's nerve really. The EU needs a deal. The EU does very well off of Britain and wants that to continue..."

Pogo Pogo's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:
But while I'm sure there are some "leavers" who feel that at this point the terms of Brexit will not be what their imaginations hoped for, it's hard to say "they didn't get the Brexit they expected" when the ballot question promised them no specific Brexit at all.  And no, I don't really care if "Nigel Farage exaggerated!"

Often when judges look at laws they will consider the context of the debate that occurred and not just the sparse wording of the law.  Don't you think the substance of the debate has any merit in consideration of the outcome?  That plus the numerous campaign violations that have been discovered.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Often when judges look at laws they will consider the context of the debate that occurred and not just the sparse wording of the law.

OK, but if they consider the context of the debate then I expect they'll look at everything, and that included lots of voices other than the "Brexit is guaranteed to be awesome" voices.  Hopefully, they'll ask themselves whether the voters of the UK had access to enough information and opinions to form their intent to vote, and if they do I think their answer will be "yes".

Quote:
That plus the numerous campaign violations that have been discovered.

I trust those will be investigated and handled appropriately.  But we've had campaign financing violations and other skullduggery ourselves, and it doesn't necessarily or typically result in a do-over.  I guess I'd expect to see some pretty egregious violations proven before I'd say "yes, that's enough to make the first vote into a 'never happened'".

 

NDPP

Corbyn loyalist MP Chris Williamson suspended from Labour. Zios and Blairites clearly running the show. See #560

Pogo Pogo's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

OK, but if they consider the context of the debate then I expect they'll look at everything, and that included lots of voices other than the "Brexit is guaranteed to be awesome" voices.  Hopefully, they'll ask themselves whether the voters of the UK had access to enough information and opinions to form their intent to vote, and if they do I think their answer will be "yes".

I think Roberts Rules of Order require that  motion to reconsider must be moved by a person who had voted originally on the winning side.  Secret ballots make it harder, but this would be a first step. That the revote campaign must be lead by people who can demonstrate their support

As for election fraud, North Carolina is having a new election over voter fraud. It is not unheard of.

josh

NDPP wrote:

Corbyn loyalist MP Chris Williamson suspended from Labour. Zios and Blairites clearly running the show. See #560

https://mobile.twitter.com/jsternweiner/status/1100921051872137222

 

NDPP

Labour's Second Referendum Won't Go Ahead, But It Will Destroy the Credibility of My Party

https://t.co/G39OHtVcvE

"Ever since the British public voted decisively to leave the European Union in 2016, the pro-EU establishment in this country has sought to undermine the referendum result. And now they have convinced the Labour leadership to support another referendum to try to overturn the mandate of the people...I will not vote for another referendum and many other principled Labour colleagues will join me."

 

Chris Williamson is Right About Antisemitism. Right Wingers Are Gaslighting the Corbyn-Led Movement

https://t.co/ZVmqSob0Nx

"The weaponisation of antisemitism. This is a major problem..."

NDPP

"Tom Watson is now the new leader of the parliamentary Labour Party. Think about it. It's Tom Watson who decides who comes into the Labour Party and who goes out of it. It's Tom Watson who decides what films you can show if you're a Labour Party member and what films you can see if you're a Labour Party member. It's Tom Watson who decides what Labour policy on Brexit is going to be. It's Tom Watson and his subalterns that are calling all the shots...There's a lot of denial out there..."

George Galloway, TMOATS, March 1, 2019 (podcast)

https://talkradio.co.uk/radio/listen-again/1551466800

@ 9:15

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NDPP wrote:

"Tom Watson is now the new leader of the parliamentary Labour Party. Think about it. It's Tom Watson who decides who comes into the Labour Party and who goes out of it. It's Tom Watson who decides what films you can show if you're a Labour Party member and what films you can see if you're a Labour Party member. It's Tom Watson who decides what Labour policy on Brexit is going to be. It's Tom Watson and his subalterns that are calling all the shots...There's a lot of denial out there..."

George Galloway, TMOATS, March 1, 2019 (podcast)

https://talkradio.co.uk/radio/listen-again/1551466800

@ 9:15


That explains why left-wingers are still being suspended and expelled.  

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..interesting read. can't post all the points it makes but it's worth the time.

Momentum, Labour and the Rise of the Platform Party

In December 2016, a vociferous factional debate emerged within the pro-Corbyn movement within the Labour Party: Momentum. The debate was about internal decision-making, and whether or not to use a delegate-system, with delegates coming from local groups, or an OMOV (one man, one vote) system. At a committee meeting, which turned into a heckling match, the vote went for the delegate system. However, this move was opposed by Momentum’s founder Jon Lansman who denounced the push as an hi-jacking attempt by various Trotskyist fringe groups centring around the Alliance for Workers Liberty (AWL). Lansman and the National Steering Committee, the executive body of Momentum, overturned the decision, supporting instead the adoption of an OMOV system that according to a poll was favoured by 80% of Momentum members.

This conflict within Momentum is representative of two cultures of political organisation that have come into conflict in recent years. On the one hand, we find older and more ideologised activists, such as the Trotskyist fringe militants who were accused of attempting a takeover of Momentum. These people tend to prefer delegate democracy, and the blueprint of the mass party of the 20th century, with its functionaries, its bureaucracy and its cadre, because they consider it the only viable form of democracy. On the other hand, we find younger militants, who have been politicised by events such as the 2010 student protests, the Occupy movement, and Corbyn’s election as Labour leader. These people tend to be suspicious of delegate democracy, of the heavy intermediation that it involves, and of the cadres who carry out these tasks. They are less keen on endless physical meetings, when compared to older and more ideological militants, and believe that all members should be empowered to participate directly in important decisions whenever possible.

Informed by this second vision, since the controversy of December 2016, Momentum has gone on to develop its own participatory platform called My Momentum. This platform is similar to many other ‘participation portals’ that have emerged from new movements and parties in recent years. These platforms include, LiquidFeedback for Pirate Parties in Northern Europe, Rousseau in the Five Star Movement in Italy, and Participa in Podemos in Spain. The platforms allow party members to make decisions on party leadership, candidates and policies; create and join local groups; donate to the movement; download campaign material and attend online training sessions for activists and prospective candidates. Often, they are available via mobile apps, allowing easy access from any point and at any time.

quote:

At the heart of this transformation lies a redefinition in the notion of membership to political organisations. Platform parties are based on a free membership model, similar to the free sign-up of many online services. Becoming part of a political party is now as easy as becoming the user of any online app. It is sufficient to enter one’s name, email and few other details to become a supporter. This radical lowering of the barrier to entry has allowed many organisations the world over to secure a vast membership, numbering sometimes over half a million people, as is the case with Pablo Iglesias’ Podemos, and Jean-Luc Melenchon’s France Insoumise. This has been seen in the case of Momentum, which in few years has managed to attract 40,000 members, but also in the Labour party under the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn, which thanks to its lowering of membership fees, is now approaching 600,000 members, compared with the nadir of 180,000 members it touched at the end of Tony Blair’s leadership.

This spectacular growth of membership marks a distancing from the stale professionalism and cynicism of “television parties” that treated participants as an embarrassment rather than a resource. Within digital parties this goes alongside an emphasis on the importance of members’ active participation what I describe as “participationism”. Indeed, these organisations have invested much energy in developing new forms of online participation for their members. They have experimented with forms of collaborative legislation, and crowd-sourcing on policy and strategy. On this course, these parties seem to be informed by a desire that is paramount in digital culture about the need for more directness and transparency in everything we do, from the way we purchase goods of any kind, to the way we make collective decisions. And indeed, some of these new practices of online decision-making, appear to offer significant opportunities to restructure the way people participate in political parties, and move beyond the self-referentiality and aloofness of many traditional political parties.

NDPP

Multi-millionaire Israel lobbyist funding new group in British Parliament

https://twitter.com/intifada/status/1101020418415173632

 

Britain's Witchfinders Are Ready to Burn Jeremy Corbyn

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/03/01/britains-witchfinders-are-ready-...

"The Blairite MPs have been trying to oust Corbyn any way they can. First through a failed re-run of the leadership contest and then by assisting the corporate media - which is equally opposed to Corbyn - in smearing him variously as a shambles, a misogynist, a sympathiser with terrorists, a Russian asset and finally as an 'enabler' of anti-semitism. This last accusation has proved the most fruitful after the Israel Lobby began to expand the definition of anti-semitism to include not just hatred of Jews but also criticism of Israel..."

nicky

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/03/labour-balance-of-terror-has-shifted-now-corbynites-have-cause-to-be-fearful

The passage of time has made it harder for Mr Corbyn to convincingly cast himself as the plucky insurgent, certainly not in terms of the Labour party. The leader and his allies grip all the important institutions of the party. The Corbynites occupy the commanding heights of the party; they have the general secretaryship, they command the national executive committee and they dominate the shadow cabinet. Everything they survey they control. This hegemony comes with a price. As one Labour MP puts it: “They can’t make themselves victims any more. It’s all on them. It’s owned by Jeremy.”

Among the things he owns is the months of deliberate ambiguity and prevarication about Brexit, all intended to avoid having to commit to the people’s vote. He has finally been compelled to (sort of) support giving the people a fresh say, but he is not getting much credit for the switch because everyone can see that it has been made begrudgingly, cynically and insincerely and without any clear commitment that he wants to be a vigorous campaigner to reverse Brexit. Labour MPs report that their leader made the statement with all the enthusiasm of a hostage reading out a ransom demand. This last-gasp and unconvincing conversion may be too late to make any difference anyway if Theresa May manages to squeak a tweaked version of her withdrawal deal through parliament. It looks not like a decision founded in principled conviction, but an act of weakness and desperation designed to placate restive party members and stem further defections.

 

josh

You complain when he doesn’t support a revote, and then you complain when he does.  And The Guardian attacking Corbyn is dog bites man.  As for not making themselves victims, I guess the author hasn’t heard of the anti-Semitism smear campaign.

NDPP

Brexit: Labour Will Whip MPs to Back Second Referendum Says McDonnell

https://twitter.com/labourleave/status/1102177724129595392

"Wow. If voters can't trust you on the most critical line in your manifesto what can they trust you on?"

CON: 40% (+3)

LABOUR: 34% (-3)...

"That's what happens when you back a 2nd referendum."

https://twitter.com/socialismilucra/status/1102234494927552514

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

When Nobody Can “Take Back Control”

quote:

But perhaps the most egregious law bolstering political parties’ power was brought in to protect the 2010 coalition government: the Fixed Term Parliament Act. The law made it far more difficult to move towards a general election, giving the party in power breathing space to cling to power for five years and securing the tenuous coalition’s term between 2010 and 2015. As a result of the act, Theresa May was able to call a general election in 2017, misjudging the Conservatives’ popularity and, instead of winning a greater parliamentary majority, ending up with a hung parliament and being forced to enlist the DUP to join a confidence-and-supply deal to keep May in Downing Street.

Under normal circumstances, May’s thumping defeat in the vote on her Brexit deal would have led to the government’s collapse and a general election. Any government unable to pass primary legislation, utterly frozen and beset by rebellion, would be unable to claim to be functioning. Yet, all the power to call an election lies with the government, and the opposition’s power to force a no-confidence vote is limited, scuppered by the slim arithmetic that keeps the government in power.

The argument for severely limiting the ability to call by-elections and general elections holds that these protections allow MPs and parties to get on with governing and decision-making without the threat of recall. In practice, it instead winnows down the power of constituents to hold politicians to account to a tiny window of time centered almost exclusively on the ballot box. MPs leaving their party and voting against their constituents’ interests, and governments failing to effectively govern do so without fear of reprisal. Constituents have little say over who their candidates are, even those within political parties, and once MPs are in office, deselecting them when the next election looms is difficult and their behavior in office is largely unchecked. Labour constituencies that have moved votes of no confidence in their MPs have often been demonized, while Conservative seats that have done similar have received little attention.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Brexit: Boost for Corbyn as Labour voters in party's heartlands back Final Say referendum

Jeremy Corbyn’s decision to support a fresh Brexit referendum enjoys the overwhelming backing of Labour voters in Leave-voting areas, new research has found.

Only 21 per cent of those in the north and the midlands who voted Labour at the last election said they opposed the dramatic policy shift – a figure dwarfed by the 66 per cent in favour.

In a further boost for Mr Corbyn, 35 per cent said it made them feel more favourable towards Labour, compared with just 14 per cent who said it made them feel less positive.

Peter Kellner, former president of YouGov, said the survey scotched “the myth” that the Labour leader would pay a heavy price for the move, pointing out that Labour voters in Leave areas now back Remain by a margin of more than three to one.

If a new referendum is held, 69 per cent would back Remain rather than leaving with the deal Theresa May has negotiated – a figure rising to 72 per cent if the alternative was a no-deal Brexit....

 

josh

Poll done for People’s Vote campaign.  As opposed to the space aliens who voted in the referendum.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

NDPP

"Ruth Smeeth, Labour MP that attacked Corbyn, listed as 'stricktly protect' US informant..."

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/749255548344885248

josh

Documentary on the anti-Corbyn anti-Semitic smear campaign.

https://mondoweiss.net/2019/03/british-witchhunt-commons/

NDPP

josh wrote:

Documentary on the anti-Corbyn anti-Semitic smear campaign.

https://mondoweiss.net/2019/03/british-witchhunt-commons/

NDPP wrote:

Well worth watching. Also posted upthread @ #560

JKR

josh wrote:

Poll done for People’s Vote campaign.  As opposed to the space aliens who voted in the referendum.

Who voted for Theresa May’s Brexit?

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

The specific flavour of Brexit wasn't put to a vote.

And really, what we call "Brexit" is really the terms (trade, security, etc.) that the UK and the rest of Europe will co-exist under AFTER the real "Brexit" (which is to say, once the two-year window ends and the UK is formally no longer a part of the EU).  Again, not on the ballot.

Any "Brexit" that results in the UK no longer being a part of the EU satisfies the terms that the leavers voted for (which was to leave).

nicky

NDPP writes in explanation of Labour's poll results:

"That's what happens when you back a 2nd referendum."

In fact if you had been paying attention, Labour's support has been tanking since early this ywear, mostly because of Corbyn's vacilation on Brexit.

 

His backing of a second vote may have staunched the bleeling but I suspect his half-heareted backing may not help in the longer run.

The last poll showing a 6% deficit is actually a little better for Labour than most other recent polls.

josh

When the Blairite "party" is inclulded, the deficit actually drops to 4.  Which I found a bit surprising, although not statistically significant.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I suspect the IGgists will disband before the next election, and just endorse the Tories.  Clearly, they were just in it to get a shot at additional directorships and maybe a life peerage for Chuka.

NDPP

...And ensure UK stayed in the EU and Corbyn never became PM.

 

'Up to 70' Labour MPs Oppose Second Brexit Referendum, Caroline Flint Claims

https://twitter.com/labourleave/status/1102519870908973056

"Caroline Flint, whose constituency voted Leave in 2016, says the party's MPs should be given a free vote on the issue..."

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Labour in London Votes to Halt Airport Expansion

In one of only two “card votes” at London Labour Conference (in cases where the Chair is unable to adjudicate on a show of hands), delegates at London Labour Conference backed a motion on Climate Change moved by Hackney North CLP. Included in the text of the otherwise uncontroversial motion was a commtiment to halting further airport expansion. This was opposed by both UNITE and GMB on the grounds that such expansion would protect and create employment in the aviation industry, with both unions organising in the sector.

Despite fierce pressure to remit the motion, Hackney North refused and pressed it a vote. Such is the strength of the union affiliates (which make up 50% of the electoral college, along with affiliated socialist societies) the motion was only able to carry with overwhelming support from Constituency Labour Party delegates [over 70%] and the backing of public sector union UNISON.

With much concern expressed on the floor of conference about air pollution and carbon emissions, there is clearly widespread concern in the party not only over the prospect of a third runway at Heathrow, but also over airport expansion more generally.....

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Vote On Brexit Bill Scrapped By Ministers In ‘Woeful’ Move To Dodge Another Commons Defeat

Ministers have been accused of preventing MPs from voting on a key piece of Brexit legislation today in order to avoid an embarrassing defeat.

The Financial Services Bill, which is designed to protect the City in the event of no-deal, had been due to be debated in the Commons on Monday.

But it was pulled from the parliamentary timetable at the last minute after a cross-party group of MPs planned to use it as a vehicle to crack down on money laundering in the British crown dependencies.

The cross-party move has been led by Tory Andrew Mitchell and Labour’s Margaret Hodge.

It also had the support of veteran Tory Ken Clarke, former Brexit secretary David Davis, former Labour leader Ed Miliband and deputy Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson.....

josh

Ken Burch wrote:

I suspect the IGgists will disband before the next election, and just endorse the Tories.  Clearly, they were just in it to get a shot at additional directorships and maybe a life peerage for Chuka.

They’re anti-Brexit, why would they endorse the Tories?  More likely they’ll join the LibDems.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..i don't post this to be provocative but because i hear close to 1 million people will be out.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

josh wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

I suspect the IGgists will disband before the next election, and just endorse the Tories.  Clearly, they were just in it to get a shot at additional directorships and maybe a life peerage for Chuka.

They’re anti-Brexit, why would they endorse the Tories?  More likely they’ll join the LibDems.

None of them actually CARE about Brexit.  They've just latched on to it because it was something they could badger Corbyn with.  If they thought they could sabotage him by pushing FOR Brexit, they'd have done that.  The IG statement of values was, for all practical purposes, the Tory manifesto, just as New Labour's manifesto was. 

They'd never join the LibDems because the LibDems won't stage any electoral recovery for years, if ever.  These are people who HAVE to be in a party either in power or with a real possibility of power-or finding a way to end their political careers by cashing out.  

They'll endorse the Tories because all of the IGgists ARE Tories at heart-the Tories are the party of self-interest and these people have defined their entire career by putting their self-interest ahead of fighting for any of the interests of the party they spend most of their years making a career and lucrative corporate contacts in. 

 

josh
nicky
NDPP

After Brexit, Labour Friend of Israel Launches Coup Against Corbyn

https://twitter.com/AsaWinstanley/status/1102901167670132736

"Vote of no confidence planned for Tuesday..."

 

The Israel lobby which has targeted Corbyn is as powerful in Canada as UK. If this isn't a lesson on the urgent necessity to remove it, I don't know what is.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Give it a rest.  You have never had any reason to be on a vendetta against Corbyn.  The party would be in worse shape with a Third Way leader-because with one of those, no one other than Tories would have any reason to ever vote Labour again.

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