Corbyn’s Labour and the path to power

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Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NDPP wrote:

After Brexit, Labour Friend of Israel Launches Coup Against Corbyn

https://twitter.com/AsaWinstanley/status/1102901167670132736

"Vote of no confidence planned for Tuesday..."

 

The Israel lobby which has targeted Corbyn is as powerful in Canada as UK. If this isn't a lesson on the urgent necessity to remove it, I don't know what is.

Isn't that a link to the 2016 coup attempt?

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Labour left sweeps the London regional board

The Labour left slate won almost all the London regional board positions up for election, it was revealed at Labour London conference this weekend.

Unite activist Jim Kelly and Tottenham’s Seema Chandwani were elected as chair and vice-chair respectively, while other left-wing activists including Claudia Webbe and Apsana Begum became local party representatives.

The slate of candidates backed by Momentum won all positions except one in ‘Section 7’ (the London Assembly constituencies of Barnet & Camden and Brent & Harrow), which went to Jewish Labour Movement activist Izzy Lenga, and that of disabilities officer, taken by Unite-backed Sean McGovern over Momentum-endorsed Robert Lugg.

Labour’s regional boards are key to ensuring that internal procedures – appeals on selections and disciplinary cases – are conducted fairly. In London, the elected officials also play an important role in shortlisting Great London Assembly (GLA) candidates.

Corbynsceptics will now be concerned that London mayor Sadiq Khan could face a hostile Labour group in 2020, and that decisions on issues such as rerunning local party AGMs and membership application appeals will not go in their favour.....

nicky

Ah Ken, maybe you’re the one who shd consider giving it a rest.

you are like that Monty Python knight in deluding yourself, despite all evidence , that Corbyn will win a glorious victory.

in fact he is greatest threat to its existence that Labour has ever faced.

Aristotleded24

nicky wrote:
Ah Ken, maybe you’re the one who shd consider giving it a rest.

you are like that Monty Python knight in deluding yourself, despite all evidence , that Corbyn will win a glorious victory.

in fact he is greatest threat to its existence that Labour has ever faced.

Yes, Corbyn is a threat to right-wingers like you because Corbyn is clear and unapologetic about putting forward a left-wing agenda, and people can make up their own minds about whether they support the right or the left. We know you to be a right-winger because of your constant attacks on Corbyn, your refusal to engage with anyone who has answered your attacks, your continued defense of Mulcair as an NDP leader long after it was made clear that he should be gone, and your refusal to engage in conversations about public policy absent the political personalities despite several invitations to do so.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

U.K. Labour Leader Calls for End to Israeli Arms Sales

In Britain, Labour Party and opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn is renewing calls for the U.K. to stop selling arms to Israel in light of the recent U.N. inquiry that found that Israel may have committed war crimes and crimes against humanity in their response to protesters in Gaza since the start of the Great March of Return demonstrations last March. The report says that Israeli forces targeted unarmed protesters in Gaza with lethal force—including children, journalists and the disabled—and that they killed 189 Palestinians, almost all of them with live ammunition. “The UK government must unequivocally condemn the killings and freeze arms sales to Israel,” Corbyn tweeted after the report was published. The Labour Party, which is not currently in power, passed a motion last year calling for an embargo on arms sales to Israel.

NDPP

Neil Clark: To Save Labour From the Wreckers Corbyn Needs Big Balls (And a Willie)

https://sptnkne.ws/kPw9

"Corbyn seemed to be on an unstoppable path to Number 10. But since then momentum has been lost. Literally."

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

BREAKING: The Movement vote to remain in Labour: 63.5% voted Yes in Manchester 100% voted Yes in London.

NDPP

Re Above:

The better to 'rid the Labour Party of the scourge of anti-semitism'. And support Israel...

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

NDPP wrote:

Re Above:

The better to 'rid the Labour Party of the scourge of anti-semitism'. And support Israel...

..are you talking about the jewish telegraph?

NDPP

Both.

Jewish Labour Movement

https://twitter.com/JewishLabour/status/1101913268334088193

"The Labour leadership have allowed a culture of antisemitism, obfuscation and denial to take hold of the Party. Our National Secretary, Peter Mason sets out why Tom Watson is right to get involved."

nicky

Aristoled, your definition of "right-winger" seems to be anyone who is not a fan of Jeffrey Corbyn.

I guess that would include me. But according to recent polling it also includes about 80% of the British electorate, including 72% of Labour voters.

Not many of you genuine left-wingers left out there it would seem.

Can't you simply concede that many sincere Social Democrtas, who worry about the future of Labour, think Corbyn is a bad leader?

You accuse me of not addressing issues. But instead of dealing with the reasons for Corbyn's  dismal ratings you attack anyone who raises these concerns as a right-winger promoting some nefarious Blairite plot.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Both.

..i understand that there are unwarranted attacks against corbyn going on from different place. i posted some up thread. but corbyn says there is there is antisemitism going on and i post a letter he wrote below. recently momentum worked with jewish labour to take control of london labour that will work against khan. it's impossible for me to sort this out from here. and i feel it must be done internally. so i watch and see how this develops.

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:

Aristoled, your definition of "right-winger" seems to be anyone who is not a fan of Jeffrey Corbyn.

I guess that would include me. But according to recent polling it also includes about 80% of the British electorate, including 72% of Labour voters.

Not many of you genuine left-wingers left out there it would seem.

Can't you simply concede that many sincere Social Democrtas, who worry about the future of Labour, think Corbyn is a bad leader?

You accuse me of not addressing issues. But instead of dealing with the reasons for Corbyn's  dismal ratings you attack anyone who raises these concerns as a right-winger promoting some nefarious Blairite plot.

You'd be more credible if you'd accept that the MPs should not be the ones determining who gets on the ballot to stand for the Labour leadership.  You would agree, I hope, that any contest where the ONLY candidates were reactionaries like Yvette Cooper or Tom Watson could not be considered legitimate and democratic, given that the overwhelming majority of those who support Labour want it to be clearly different than the Tories on all major issue, want it to be an anti-austerity, pro-worker and anti-war party, right?  You would concede that it could never be a valid result to have anybody who was imposed as a Labour candidate against the wishes of that candidate's constituency party end up being imposed as leader by the MPs, right?  That there could never be any good reason to lower the party to Blairism again?

NDPP

Antisemitism in the UK

https://twitter.com/LabLeftVoice/status/1103441316002889729

"Despite significant press and public attacks on the Labour Party, and a number of revelations regarding inappropriate social media content, there exists no reliable, empirical evidence to support the notion that there is a higher prevalence of antisemitism with the Labour Party than any other political party..."

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

As to Corbyn's ratings, which aren't that bad-nobody on the right wing of the party would have any popularity if imposed as leader-can you not see that the endless attacks on the man by the Blairite MPs who refuse to accept that the party has rejected what they stood for and who refuse to accept that the leadership question was settled in 2017 by the massive Labour popular vote gains play the dominant role in that?  That the endless false accusations that Corbyn is an antisemite play a major role?  That the vilification he receives on the BBC and in the Murdoch tabloids is largely to blame?

Yes, you could replace him with somebody that the BBC and Murdoch and Labour MPs wouldn't perpetually slander-but I think you'd have to concede that that would mean replacing Corbyn with someone who stood for nothing and didn't disagree with the Tories on any major issue, like Liz Kendall.

Since doing that would make a Labour victory, even if it could happen in that instance-virtually every socialist in the UK would switch to voting Green the moment someone you approved of was made leader, since no one you do approve of cares about workers and the poor and the need to work for peace-impossible, why would you even want it?

Labour would have won in 1997 without kicking out virtually all socialists.  It would have a solid lead in the polls right now if people like you stopped slandering Corbyn.  Why do you insist on doing nothing but damage?  Why are you fighting for the rich and for perpetual war against Muslims, which is what it means to want Corbyn replaced with a "moderate"?  Why do you want Labour to go back to standing for nothing again as it did before the people chose Jeremy over the anti-worker Labour bureaucracy and the more-Tory-than-Tory Labour MPs?

There's no difference between the Blairites and May.  The fact that the Blairites were abstaining on the Tory cuts in 2015-abstaining on votes on cuts is the same thing as supporting the cuts and those who did it were saying they no longer cared if Labour disagreed with the Tories on any major issue-is proof that none of the people who the Blairites would prefer as leader would be worth happening.  If any of the other Labour leadership candidates-Kendall, Cooper, Burnham-had won in 2015, there would be no reason for Labour to exist.  Labour only has a reason to be as a party if it is going to be a radical alternative to EVERYTHING the Tories stood for.  It would be worthless if it had done what you wanted and reduced its message to "it's enough that it'll be US cutting your benefits".  

This is why it's hard to believe it when you imply that you have any sense of social justice or empathy with the dispossesed and the powerless.  It's not possible to have such feelings and prefer that Labour be led by a supporter of the status quo, as any leader you'd prefer would do.  It's not possible to want peace and be fine with Labour supporting the status quo on foreign policy, as any leader you'd prefer would do.  It's not possible to have a vision of a caring society and support the people who drove all the compassion and humanity out of Labour's program in the Nineties, as you do.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

NDPP wrote:

Antisemitism in the UK

https://twitter.com/LabLeftVoice/status/1103441316002889729

"Despite significant press and public attacks on the Labour Party, and a number of revelations regarding inappropriate social media content, there exists no reliable, empirical evidence to support the notion that there is a higher prevalence of antisemitism with the Labour Party than any other political party..."

 ..that doesn't meaning it doesn't need to be dealt with. score one for israel in that it made this a big issue. now how do you deal with that exactly? certainly not by denial or downplaying it. and certainly not with blanket accusations against jewish labour.

nicky

Ken claims that “Corbyn’s ratings aren’t so bad.”

so 60% negative vs 17% positive is encouraging to Ken?

see:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership_approval_opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

 ..the election is a ways off and when it is finally called the manifesto will be the hottest platform around..like the last election with a few more additions. there will be nothing even close to it that will address real issues. in the mean time the attacks against corbyn will continue..even increase. but labour/momentum continue to organize and corbyn survives the attacks.  

NDPP

NDPP wrote:

Both.

Jewish Labour Movement

https://twitter.com/JewishLabour/status/1101913268334088193

"The Labour leadership have allowed a culture of antisemitism, obfuscation and denial to take hold of the Party. Our National Secretary, Peter Mason sets out why Tom Watson is right to get involved."

NDPP wrote:

OK epaulo13.  You support Remain and 'Jewish Labour' who clearly and accurately state their position in their video and twitter feed you posted @ #608 and their longtime affiliation with an Israeli political party on their site.  Unlike you I don't support either.  Understand? Good. 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..to be clear i posted a twitter post that reported on the results of a jewish labour vote on staying in the labour party.  i did not get that post from the telegraph site but from a retweet from another twitter site. i believe it was the momentum site. i didn't even see the telegraph site until you pointed it out. in any case i'm following corbyn's/momentum's lead on this. 

..my central position is getting the manifesto implemented. i happen to believe the way for doing that is getting labour elected..whatever that takes. what i am against is a tory or no deal brexit. i'd be ok with a labour brexit but that would need labour to come to power. i also support a vote on the tory brexit keeping in mind that we have yet to see a vote called or a ballot content.  

NDPP

Thanks for the clarification. 

NDPP

Labour Party Members Rebel Against Suspension of Chris Williamson MP for Bogus Claims of Anti-Semitism

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/03/07/will-m07.html

"Tens of thousands of Labour members and supporters are opposing the suspension of Derby North Labour MP Chris Williamson and the ongoing witch-hunt [coup] by the Blairite right-wing centered on bogus allegations of anti-Semitism. Thousands of Corbyn followers are demanding a full-scale confrontation with the Blairites and for them to be deselected and booted out not Williamson. Among the main targets for removal is Labour Deputy Leader Tom Watson, who has played a key role in destabilising Corbyn's leadership.

These political contradictions cannot be sustained indefinitely, with the Corbyn movement polarising between those who want to fight and those, including its leadership, caving in to the right-wing...But Momentum's leader Jon Lansman is one of the main witch-hunters in the anti-Semitism campaign - backing Williamson's removal and reportedly urging Momentum members to cease posting supportive statements about Jackie Walker, the black Jewish former vice chair of Momentum. Dozens of his members denounced his filthy role with many saying they had left or were leaving Momentum..."

 

Labour's Civil War on Israel Has Been A Long Time Coming

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/labours-civil-war-israel-has-been-...

"An announcement this week by the Jewish Labour Movement (JLM) that it is considering splitting from the British Labour Party [it decided to stay] could not have come at a worse moment for Jeremy Corbyn. The Labour leader is already besieged by claims that he is presiding over a party that has become institutionally 'anti-semitic.' The threats by the JLM should be seen as part of concerted efforts to oust Corbyn from the leadership. They follow on the heels of a decision by a handful of Labour MPs last month to set up a new faction called the Independent Group. They too, cited anti-Semitism as a major reason for leaving.

Corbyn is the first leader of a British political party to prioritise Palestinian rights over the UK's ties to an Israeli state that has been oppressing Palestinians for decades..." 

josh
NDPP

omit

NDPP

The Lobby (and vid)

https://www.aljazeera.com/investigations/thelobby/

"Al Jazeera Investigates exposes how the Israel lobby influences British politics. A six-month undercover investigation reveals how Israel penetrates different levels of British democracy."

 

EHCR: 'Labour Unlawfully Discriminating Against Jewish People'

https://twitter.com/TheBirmingham6/status/1103604524093227008

"The Party which : - had a Leadership election between two Jewish brothers - has several Jewish groups affiliated or associated with it - has a far higher % of Jewish people in it compared to % of Jewish people in general population. Do the EHRC jobworths have no proper work to do?"

 

"What nonsense is happening in the UK? Brilliant, tireless, journalist, investigator, activist Asa Winstanley is suspended from Labour and learns about his suspension only AFTER The Jewish Chronicle does?! A case needs to be made of this and UK attorneys need to step up. #IStandWithAsa

https://twitter.com/Lamis_Deek/status/1104184278139760640

Israel has a Corbyn problem. And is moving to destroy it. Corbyn has an Israel problem. And is NOT moving to destroy it. Unsurprisingly Israel is winning. Corbyn is not.

NDPP

The Lobby (and vid)

https://www.aljazeera.com/investigations/thelobby/

"Al Jazeera Investigates exposes how the Israel lobby influences British politics. A six-month undercover investigation reveals how Israel penetrates different levels of British democracy."

 

EHCR: 'Labour Unlawfully Discriminating Against Jewish People'

https://twitter.com/TheBirmingham6/status/1103604524093227008

"The Party which : - had a Leadership election between two Jewish brothers - has several Jewish groups affiliated or associated with it - has a far higher % of Jewish people in it compared to % of Jewish people in general population. Do the EHRC jobworths have no proper work to do?"

 

"What nonsense is happening in the UK? Brilliant, tireless, journalist, investigator, activist Asa Winstanley is suspended from Labour and learns about his suspension only AFTER The Jewish Chronicle does?! A case needs to be made of this and UK attorneys need to step up. #IStandWithAsa

https://twitter.com/Lamis_Deek/status/1104184278139760640

Israel has a Corbyn problem. And is moving to destroy it. Corbyn has an Israel problem. And is NOT moving to destroy it. Unsurprisingly Israel is winning. Corbyn is not.

NDPP

 

dp

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Labour commits to indefinite tenancies for private renters

Labour’s Shadow Housing Secretary John Healey has pledged that the next Labour Government will protect private renters in England from eviction with new ‘indefinite’ tenancies, based on rules currently in place in Germany.

The change would revolutionise the private rental market. German tenancies last, on average, 11 years, compared to around 4 years in England. The German system is also widely seen to act as a brake on rent increases, given that landlords may use the changeover of tenants as an opportunity to hike rents. Tenants themselves are still be able to choose to leave the property after a period of notice.

In England, according to a survey of landlords conducted by the Government, landlords or their agents make the decision to end almost one in five tenancies (18%). At present, tenants can be evicted without any reason being given, and despite having done nothing wrong. One in three private renters – 1.6m households – have dependent children.

Under the German system, tenancies are effectively open-ended with a tenant only able to be evicted on tightly defined grounds, for example if they don’t pay the rent or commit criminal behaviour in the property.....

NDPP

Jewish Woman On Corbyn/Antisemitism (and vid)

https://twitter.com/theleftbible/status/1104017376146833409

"This is a manipulation by an Israeli propaganda outfit, the right wing of the Labour Party and goodness knows who else..."

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Brexit: No majority support for Theresa May's deal in any constituency, poll analysis reveals

No majority of voters in any of the 632 constituencies in England, Scotland and Wales want their MP to back Theresa May's Brexit deal, according to a fresh polling analysis released just three days before a major parliamentary vote.

It will come as a blow for the prime minister, who issued a plea on Friday for MPs to support her plans as she attempts to seek eleventh-hour concessions from Brussels in the tense negotiations. 

On Saturday, the talks descended into open hostility as the cabinet minister Andrea Leadsom accused the EU of playing "games" after a public row between the Brexit secretary, and the bloc's chief negotiator. 

The new constituency-by-constituency model based on YouGov polling for the People's Vote campaign of more than 25,000 voters presents grim reading for Downing Street ahead of Tuesday's "meaningful vote" on Ms May's Brexit agreement.....

 

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

3,152 new members have joined over the last two weeks; if you’re not a member, click on the link and join today

NDPP

May's Brexit is no-Brexit.  Second referendum choices ( since people voted wrongly last time) would be this no-brexit May Brexit or Remain. This is all about the interests of Capital not democracy. The little window which opened briefly for a chance at a return to people's sovereignty and agency under Corbyn has now been closed by Zionists, Blairites and useful idiots who haven't apparently noticed the rotting, proto-fascist bankster-run mess that is the EU.

The Jimmy Dore Show (2016)

https://youtu.be/3xq-gWv91WM

"Why Brexit is good for working people."

nicky

From the article cited by epaulo:

The research also claims that if Labour fails to oppose Ms May's deal, the party could suffer at the next general election, with the Conservatives winning a 200-seat majority. 

But Jeremy Corbyn has already committed his party to opposing the prime minister's current deal. "We will not be supporting her deal next Tuesday," he said last week. 

"We will be voting to take no deal off the table and we will once again be putting our proposals - our five pillars - which are a customs union, market access and protection of rights in this country that have been obtained through the EU," he added.

Peter Kellner, the former president of the pollster YouGov, said: "The coalition that produced a narrow majority for Brexit three years ago is falling apart."

josh

nicky wrote:

From the article cited by epaulo:

The research also claims that if Labour fails to oppose Ms May's deal, the party could suffer at the next general election, with the Conservatives winning a 200-seat majority. 

But Jeremy Corbyn has already committed his party to opposing the prime minister's current deal. "We will not be supporting her deal next Tuesday," he said last week. 

"We will be voting to take no deal off the table and we will once again be putting our proposals - our five pillars - which are a customs union, market access and protection of rights in this country that have been obtained through the EU," he added.

Peter Kellner, the former president of the pollster YouGov, said: "The coalition that produced a narrow majority for Brexit three years ago is falling apart."

LOL.  200?  How about 300?  Polling done for "people's vote."

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:

From the article cited by epaulo:

The research also claims that if Labour fails to oppose Ms May's deal, the party could suffer at the next general election, with the Conservatives winning a 200-seat majority. 

But Jeremy Corbyn has already committed his party to opposing the prime minister's current deal. "We will not be supporting her deal next Tuesday," he said last week. 

"We will be voting to take no deal off the table and we will once again be putting our proposals - our five pillars - which are a customs union, market access and protection of rights in this country that have been obtained through the EU," he added.

Peter Kellner, the former president of the pollster YouGov, said: "The coalition that produced a narrow majority for Brexit three years ago is falling apart."

He's BEEN opposing May's "deal" the whole time.  He never had to fight for a second referendum-the second referendum the Tories can't be made to allow-to prove that.

And he did all he could to campaign for Remain in the ref.  There's nothing else he could have said in that campaign that could ever have turned a single Leave voter into a Remain voter.  No one who'd been even leaning Leave was open to any possible case for voting Remain.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:

From the article cited by epaulo:

The research also claims that if Labour fails to oppose Ms May's deal, the party could suffer at the next general election, with the Conservatives winning a 200-seat majority. 

But Jeremy Corbyn has already committed his party to opposing the prime minister's current deal. "We will not be supporting her deal next Tuesday," he said last week. 

"We will be voting to take no deal off the table and we will once again be putting our proposals - our five pillars - which are a customs union, market access and protection of rights in this country that have been obtained through the EU," he added.

Peter Kellner, the former president of the pollster YouGov, said: "The coalition that produced a narrow majority for Brexit three years ago is falling apart."

He's BEEN opposing May's "deal" the whole time.  He never had to fight for a second referendum-the second referendum the Tories can't be made to allow-to prove that.

And he did all he could to campaign for Remain in the ref.  There's nothing else he could have said in that campaign that could ever have turned a single Leave voter into a Remain voter.  No one who'd been even leaning Leave was open to any possible case for voting Remain.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

BTW...for those who don't understand...nicky is essentially a conservative(there's no difference between supporting "Labour moderates" and the Tories, because "Labour moderates" and Tories agree on all major issues-they're all pro-austerity, they are all for keeping Thatcher's anti-worker laws, they all believe that Britain's foreign policy should be predicated on perpetual war against the Muslim world), and, if Corbyn were putting the unwinnable fight to make the Tories hold a second referendum before all other issues, nicky would be finding something else to attack him on...anything else...a couple of weeks ago, nicky even revived the totally-discredited accusation that Corbyn is a supporter of antisemitism or, at the least, a protector of anti-Semites, when Corbyn is not only a lifelong opponent of anti-Semitism he comes from a family which always fought against it-Corbyn's mother was in the anti-Nazi "Battle of Cable Street" in the 1930s.

Nicky has been acting out of venemous, irrational hatred of Corbyn the whole time-to the extent that he kept demanding Corbyn's resignation as leader DURING the 2017 general election campaign, even though it's impossible for a major political party to change leaders during an election campaign and even though there was no one the MPs could have imposed as an interim leader who could possibly have unified the party and led it anywhere close to the massive popular vote gains Corbyn led it to.

nicky doesn't give a damn about the Eu-he likely doesn't give a damn about fighting antisemitism-he just seems to despise the fact that, in 2015, the British Labour Party stopped being the Church of Blairland and, for the first time in decades, became a place where politics and democracy and the possibility of change were living things.

Nothing explains the absurd vendetta of snark and abuse nicky has engaged in on this site about Jeremy Corbyn-a man whose only real crimes have been those of refusal: refusal to accept that all possibility of transformative change forever ended in 1989, refusal to accept that austerity, inequality and perpetual war are the unavoidable destiny of the human race, refusal to accept that all non-conservative parties must be led by hateful, vindictive, cynical anti-democratic bullshit artists.  

Those just tuning in, please know this.  Know that nicky is not posting here with any positive, helpful, hopeful intent-that he simply acts as an enforcer for the forces of the now-totally-discredited Third Way, those who will not stop until they have moved every party of the "center-left" into a party to the right of the right.  The world has rejected the Third Way, but nicky still labors under the delusion that he can impose the Third Way on the world.  

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

We Are More Divided Than Ever On Brexit – Extending Article 50 Would Give Us Time To Build Consensus On How To Move Forward

Yvette Cooper Labour MP

Tomorrow we are supposed to vote on the Prime Minister’s deal.

It’s the same deal we voted on in January. It was defeated by 230 votes. It’s the same deal that the Prime Minister herself voted against in February when she supported Graham Brady’s amendment calling for alternative arrangements instead. Tomorrow we are supposed to vote on it again. Nothing has changed. What has the Prime Minister been doing for eight weeks?

Even if by magic, the Attorney General comes up with something to add at the last minute we will have barely hours to consider it before we are supposed to vote. This is the worst kind of chaos and brinkmanship. There has been no plan B. No flexibility. No reaching out. No change to the red lines.

The clock is truly run down. The can kicked and squashed. The road has run out – we have no idea what kind of Brexit we are going to get, in just over two weeks’ time. Businesses don’t know if they will face tariffs. Public services don’t know if they will face shortages. Families don’t know if food prices will go up. How can anyone plan? Our allies across the world are flabbergasted at the mess we seem to be in.

The country feels more divided than ever. The only thing uniting people is the belief that the Government and politicians are screwing things up. Everyone is still shouting at each other. Half the country – particularly the younger half – will feel betrayed if we leave like this. The other half – including many of those whose voices too often don’t get heard – will feel betrayed if we just stop and give up. Betrayal is a dangerous emotion in politics – it can poison democracies. Carry on like this and we will not hold our country together. Carry on like this and whatever the Brexit outcome, nothing will endure.....

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..more from above

quote:

So I want to propose some next steps. Theresa May needs to accept that her approach isn’t working whether her deal gets through or not this week. As Prime Minister, she needs to show some leadership and reset the debate. This is the point to pivot not to dig in.

There are practical steps the Prime Minister can take now. Not easy ones but sensible ones, step by step, to build more consensus around a way through. If she won’t find a way forward, then Parliament has a responsibility to do so instead. And once again we will be ready to work cross party on amendments to do that.

Two weeks ago we made a start. Fearful that the Prime Minister was drifting towards the cliff edge, leaving the EU with no deal in place, we put forward a cross party plan to create a Parliamentary safeguard. In the event, the Prime Minister adopted it. 500 MPs voted for it. Only 20 voted against.

As a result of that work, if the Prime Minister’s deal does not go through this week, Parliament will be able to vote on whether to leave with no deal or extend Article 50. The head of the CBI, Carolyn Fairburn, described it as “a brief moment of sanity.” But if we are not careful it will prove only a brief one.

There are rumours that the Prime Minister will pull the vote tomorrow, and then pull the votes on Wednesday and Thursday too. Whatever she does tomorrow, I don’t believe she will pull the votes on no-deal and extending Article 50. She gave me and Parliament her word.

josh
Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Extending Article 50 Would Give Us Time To Build Consensus On How To Move Forward

Really, though?  Two years isn't enough time, but two years and a few months will allow everyone to come together?

The situation in the UK sort of reminds me of the old "three wishes" story:

the old fable wrote:
A woodcutter complained of his poor lot. Jupiter (or, alternatively, a tree spirit) granted him three wishes. The woodcutter went home, and his wife persuaded him to put off the wishing until the next day, after he had thought, but while sitting by the fire, he wished for sausages. His wife taxed him for his folly, and angry, he wished the sausages on her nose. Finally, they agreed to use the last wish to take the sausages off her nose, leaving them no better off than before.

... except that the husband and wife are the leavers and the remainers (or:  the Cons and Labour), and the wishes are the two years between Article 50 and actual Brexit.  They seem to have spent those two years on petitions, a general election, a confidence vote, court decisions, a different confidence vote, and plenty of bickering.  They seem to have spent none of it simply planning for Brexit.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..this is coming together magoo. this is progress slow as it might seem it's actually moving fast considering the various political interests at play. the general population appears to also be experiencing a consensus of sorts as well.

quote:

Two weeks ago we made a start. Fearful that the Prime Minister was drifting towards the cliff edge, leaving the EU with no deal in place, we put forward a cross party plan to create a Parliamentary safeguard. In the event, the Prime Minister adopted it. 500 MPs voted for it. Only 20 voted against.

As a result of that work, if the Prime Minister’s deal does not go through this week, Parliament will be able to vote on whether to leave with no deal or extend Article 50. The head of the CBI, Carolyn Fairburn, described it as “a brief moment of sanity.” But if we are not careful it will prove only a brief one.

nicky

Ken, I don’t think I have ever attacked you personally or attacked your (misguided) sincerity.

yet I receive a torrent of vitriol from you, aimed personally at my motives and honesty.

at least Josh is now citing a poll that is unexpectedly favourable for Labour. You never supply anything except vacant conclusory claims wrapped in conspiracy theories.

i can’t even count all the lies in your post above. I stopped counting at 13. That Corbyn did all he could to battle Brexit in the referendum? Tell that to the 80% of Labour MPs who voted non-confidence in him as a result of his desultory “support.”  Get serious.

oh, I forgot. They like me are evil Blairites and closet Conservatives so they shoul$ be ignored. Only Corbyn and his narrow sect should be allowed to state their views.

josh
nicky

68% of those who did not vote in previous referendum and 87% of newly eligible voters now favour Remain:

https://leftfootforward.org/2019/03/poll-suggest-2016-non-voters-now-favour-remain/

is it democratic to deny them a voice in a new referendum?

josh

"The poll was commissioned by For Our Future’s Sake. "

NDPP

Topple/Galloway: Raging Storms From Labour... (and vid)

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1105438185109241857

"The Corbyn camp is becoming weaker by the day. There's only one way this is going to end."

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:

Ken, I don’t think I have ever attacked you personally or attacked your (misguided) sincerity.

yet I receive a torrent of vitriol from you, aimed personally at my motives and honesty.

at least Josh is now citing a poll that is unexpectedly favourable for Labour. You never supply anything except vacant conclusory claims wrapped in conspiracy theories.

i can’t even count all the lies in your post above. I stopped counting at 13. That Corbyn did all he could to battle Brexit in the referendum? Tell that to the 80% of Labour MPs who voted non-confidence in him as a result of his desultory “support.”  Get serious.

oh, I forgot. They like me are evil Blairites and closet Conservatives so they shoul$ be ignored. Only Corbyn and his narrow sect should be allowed to state their views.

1) I don't ever lie.  Corbyn DID do all he could to prevent a Leave victory.  No one person in that referendum could have shifted two percent of the electorate from Leave to Remain all by her or himself.  I defy you to tell me what Corbyn could possibly have said that would have turned the tide.  There was nothing anyone could say to convince working-class voters that the EU made their lives better.  There was nothing anyone could have said that could have persuade the poor, in a country where impoverished areas were totally left-out in the cold by the EU, to vote for it.  He campaigned honestly and reasonably, he said what any honest, principled human being would HAVE to have said in campaigning for Remain-that there were some good things in the EU, but that those who aren't billionaires have a lot of legitimate grievances about that institution.  I defy you to offer a single honest, decent phrase Corbyn could have uttered, in addition to what he did say, that could have turned any Leave voters into Remainers.  You keep acting like he could have stopped the Leave victory but simply chose not to.  Prove it.  Post ONE thing Corbyn could have said or done that could have turned the contest from a Leave victory to a Remain victory-just ONE.  

2) I didn't say anything about you as a person-I referenced only your politics and your tactics here-your refusal to engage, your refusal to acknowledge that Corybn put the leadership issue to rest by winning the second leadership vote in a landslide and by making a better showing in the snap election than any other possible Labour leader could have made-we can assume, based on the 2015 results that Labour can never get back into power under a "moderate" leader and probably can't ever even gain seats under anyone associated with the Third Way-and did so even while enduring treatment no other Labour leader ever experienced, including a completely unjustified and pointless campaign to try and force him to resign as leader DURING the 2017 election, beginning with an orchestrated campaign in which twelve Labour MPs standing down at the start of the campaign just to embarass the man into quitting, despite the fact that it's impossible for a major party to change leaders once an election is called.  When Tony Blair was leader, Jeremy respectfully dissented from him on issues that any decent person would HAVE to have dissented from him on-Jeremy never tried to sabotage Labour's chances of winning any election under a leader he dissented from, never once acted out of malice or as a wrecker.  His supporters never did that either.  Having treated Blair and his supporters with complete respect and co-operation, Corbyn has the right to expect that courtesy and respect to be returned from those he and his supporters overwhelmingly defeated.  He has never received that courtesy and respect from the Third Way crowd-not once.   How can you justify years of abuse and undermining the Blairite wing of his own MPs?  How can you justify those same MPs insisting on a divine right to perpetual re-selection as Labour candidates even when their actions, again and again "bring the party into disrepute"?  How can you justify one of the most fundamentally decent and honest human beings who has ever emerged in British politics being slandered(as you yourself did in this thread)as indifferent to antisemitism-when all who called him that knew he'd spent his life fighting that form of bigotry, a bigotry which barely exists within Labour at all and which has nothing in common with opposition to what the Israeli government does to Palestinians, and which is far less prevalent than most forms of prejudice in the UK or the rest of the world-and as an ally of Hamas, Hezbollah and the IRA, when he was never any of those things, when all he ever tried to do was to create the conditions for resolving the Irish and Israel/Palestine conflicts through negotiations, and when creating those conditions requires the admission that those conflicts, whatever methods the factions involved might pursue them, are both grounded in legitimate grievances on the part of an oppressed group towards an oppressor regime?

3) Had it not been for those years of abuse, slanders and lies from the Tory media and the PLP, Corbyn would have no issues with personal popularity at all.  Had it not been for people like Chuka Umunna going on television in the UK during local elections and even the general election essentially arguing for the defeat of their own party because Corbyn happened to be leading it, he would have won both sets of local elections on his watch(as it was he made strong gains in both anyway)and clearly would have ousted the Tories in 2017.  Can you not acknowledge that it's simply not reasonable to have expected Corbyn, or anyone else subjected to the sabotage and unjustified abuse he has received from the Tory media and from those in his own party who can't accept that Labour is not the private property of Tony Blair, that there's no good reason ever to go back to running the party Blair's cronies ran it, and that there's no good reason for Labour ever to go back to how things were done from 1997 to 2015.  If the anti-Corbynites were willing to admit that the old days were over, if they were willing to agree that, no matter who leads the party, there's no valid reason to move the party fo the right again, if they were willing to let the over 100,000 people who were expelled from Labour during the 2016 leadership vote, they could then be treated as people operating out of positive intent and good will.  By refusing to budge from their insistence on a total Blairite restoration, they have shown they are not interested in anything by revenge and privilege.

BTW...it's bogus to argue that those in the party who identify as pro-Remain want Corbyn out.  They are pro-Remain, but they accept Corbyn's strategy and they know that Corbyn CAN'T put a second referendum over everything else.  They believe that uniting the party to beat the Tories matters at least as much, if not more.

 

Aristotleded24

nicky wrote:
Aristoled, your definition of "right-winger" seems to be anyone who is not a fan of Jeffrey Corbyn.

I guess that would include me. But according to recent polling it also includes about 80% of the British electorate, including 72% of Labour voters.

Not many of you genuine left-wingers left out there it would seem.

Can't you simply concede that many sincere Social Democrtas, who worry about the future of Labour, think Corbyn is a bad leader?

You accuse me of not addressing issues. But instead of dealing with the reasons for Corbyn's  dismal ratings you attack anyone who raises these concerns as a right-winger promoting some nefarious Blairite plot.

It has nothing to do with Corbyn. Here is why I am calling you a right-winger:

1) You have repeated the idea that Corbyn has tolerated anti-semitism.  That accusation is thrown at anyone who supports the rights of the Palestinians and who challenges the actions of the Israeli government towards them. Heck, there is more open debate about that topic that goes on in Israel than is permitted in North America and the United Kingdom.

2) You have refused to acknowledge that many Labour MPs never accepted Corbyn as their leader, and instead of being constructive in their approach, worked very hard to undermine him. When Jack Layton won the NDP leadership in 2003, he initially  had almost no support from Caucus. Could you imagine if that had been immediately followed by NDP MPs going on every TV show complaining about how Jack was undermining the party and that they had to get rid of him?

3) Your talking points have been the same from the 2017 election, and you haven't acknowledged that Corbyn increased the Labour seat count.

4) You have made it all about the political personalities. You haven't spoken to the actual issues at all. You've spoken in vague terms about "Brexit," but haven't said a word about things like education, loan debt, poverty, climate change or anything else. You like to complain about how people are treating you on this thread? I gave you a chance upthread to put aside the petty personal garbage, and actually talk about every day issues that people face. You did not do any of that. You did not put any of your own issues on the table. You went back to your original talking points, many of which had been addressed, without addressing anything anyone else had said. I know sometimes "the mob" can be vicious, but if you've noticed that your interactions with others have not gone well for you, why not take a look in the mirror at your own behaviour?

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