Corbyn’s Labour and the path to power

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NDPP

'We Need To Talk About Racism in the PLP'

https://twitter.com/damian_from/status/1129175369838399489

"...Supporting apartheid warrants expulsion."

What a novel notion. In the NDP  NOT supporting apartheid warrants expulsion.

nicky
cco
josh

Reality check:  Labour had led in every poll except YouGov since the start of April.  In the only election that matters.  The election for UK parliament.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

THe poll also proves that it wouldn't help for Labour to move to the far right and put stopping Brexit-when Brexit can't BE stopped, as you know full well-ahead of everything else.

Putting Brexit above getting the Right out of power only benefits those who don't want a Labour government to be different than a Tory government.  That's why the Blairites dredged this up when it was otherwise a dead deal.

It's enough that Corbyn did all he could to fight for Remain when the issue was still unsettled.  He never deserved to be blamed for the unavoidable Leave victory.  There was nothing Corbyn or anyone else could have said to turn the Northeast of england against Leave.  Nothing.

NDPP

'Jeremy Corbyn is Under Ideological House Arrest'

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1129472692225216513

"Is Jeremy Corbyn getting ready for the off too...?"

NDPP

Labour is a 'Remain and Reform Party' Deputy Leader Tom Watson Says

https://twitter.com/labourleave/status/1128223556205260801

"Just to make %100 sure every voter knows Labour manifestos mean nothing and Lab doesn't accept democratic results. Great work Tom!"

NDPP

"Emily Thornberry and Yvette Cooper are TWEETING to make sure you know they are watching the Eurovision Song Contest. This is the contempt in which they hold the Boycott Eurovision movement from the Apartheid Israel state.   #Palestine, #Gaza

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1129876339245428736

NDP has a similar pro-Zionist problem.

NDPP

"So far looked up 4 Labour MEPs.

https://twitter.com/LexitAlliance/status/1131308777691582467

The three that were MEPs at the time voted for privatising rail across the EU so these could also enjoy the fruits we enjoy in Britain. I'll have a closer look at how the rest voted towards making the Labour 2017 manifesto more impossible."

NDPP

"The Labour candidates in today's elections are almost to a man and woman Blairite Remainers, Defiers of democracy and second referendum supporters. To demand my support for them defies credulity. To do so in the name of 'Socialism and Internationalism' is a profound insult."

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1131463240737873920

NorthReport
NDPP

Corbyn Was Crystal Clear On BREXIT (and vid 2017)

https://twitter.com/BBCLookNorth/status/862292802708832260

"We accept the result of the referendum. Britain is leaving the European Union..."

 

'You Can Stop the Far Right Today': Jeremy Corbyn (and vid)

https://twitter.com/Jim_Lancashire/status/1131624068569018369

"The LP is losing its base over its Brexit betrayal and a LP without w/c support is not worth tuppence."

 

"The middle class metropolitan liberals who dominate today's Labour party treat the traditional working class as some kind of embarrassing elderly relative. Tragically - but totally unsurprisingly - the Brexit Party has moved right into that space."

https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1129096113712193536

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NDPP wrote:

"So far looked up 4 Labour MEPs.

https://twitter.com/LexitAlliance/status/1131308777691582467

The three that were MEPs at the time voted for privatising rail across the EU so these could also enjoy the fruits we enjoy in Britain. I'll have a closer look at how the rest voted towards making the Labour 2017 manifesto more impossible."

Well yeah.  Then again, it was fairly unlikely that Labour MEP's would take a position that would put eliminate their jobs.  

nicky

You have to agree with the sheer blinding obviousness of this, don’t you Ken?

“Corbyn has taken a senseless political risk by treating his voters as fools. The British Election Study estimated that two thirds of Labour voters went with Remain in the 2016 referendum. Now YouGov estimates that 88 percent back Remain. Any party that goes with the 12 percent rather than the 88 percent will collapse. It is not a party for the many, but for the few.

The far left has been so busy fighting the hated ‘centrists’ that it has forgotten to fight the right and far right. Existing and former Labour supporters have not been so negligent. They need only look at the tribunes of Brexit — at Gerard Batten, Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Dominic Raab — to know that they must be opposed. There is an almost primitive fear at work. If a film company had searched for characters guaranteed to set the tom-toms of liberal England beating out a warning, it could not have found better candidates than these gentlemen.

The Labour leadership says it must support Brexit, and offer messages on a second referendum so half-hearted that no one believes them, to retain Leave seats in the north. Yet in a first-past-the-post general election, with the vote split three, four, even five ways, there’s no such thing as a Leave or Remain seat. The party that collects a plurality of the vote wins, and if Labour drives away northern Remain voters then it will lose.”

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/05/corbyn-isnt-working-and-labour-is-being-picked-apart-by-its-new-enemies/

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

No, the Labour leadership does NOT think it must "support Brexit".  Since Brexit can't be stopped, and soft Brexit is the only progressive possibility, what Labour's leadership is doing is simply accepting reality.  

It couldn't serve any good to fight a doomed, losing battle on this. 

And you don't need to join the unwinnable fight for a second referendum to oppose what those people are about. 

JKR

I think that even if it is not winnable Labour has to support having a second referendum because most Labour voters support remaining in the EU. If Labour does not support a second referendum Labour runs the risk of losing many of their current supporters to the Liberal Democrats and other parties who support a second referendum. The type of Brexit the UK ends up with will be determined by the end of 2019 and at that point I think the Brexit Party will lose their support, mostly to the Conservatives. I think Labour has to prepare for a post-Brexit UK starting in a few months when most Labour supporters feel that the Conservative Party’s version of Brexit was the wrong move. I think Labour will be in trouble if many of their current supporters feel that Labour abetted the Conservatives version of Brexit.

NorthReport

When I see Marine Le Pen’s Party say no second referendum that it itself is enough to confirm to me that a second referendum is essential

When I see almost every right-winger in the UK say no second referendum it confirms to me that one is needed

That’s just basic math for me as I certainly would not want to be allied with those right-wingers because those right-wingers are out to screw working people seniors and the poor

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1131169/Brexit-news-france-violation-of-democracy-remain-campaign

josh

May announces that she will resign as head of the Conservative Party and remain as PM until the party chooses a new leader.

nicky

Ken, a mantra that appears in almost all your posts is that a second referendum is impossible,if it were Remain would lose, and that Brexit is inevitable. 

The evidence does not support this. Brexit in various forms has consistently failed in Parliament. Johnson is no more likely to effect it than May. A growing majority (55% or more) now supports Remain. There is a strong movement reported today to commit Labour(despite its woeful leader) to an unequivocal Second referendum position. Early indications from the EU election are that the vote in Remain areas is much higher than in Leaveareas.

Democracy is on the side of Remain. 

Surely you have to agree (to use your strained terminology) that your mantra is pretty mindless.

josh

Democracy is on the side of Remain. 

LOL.  Talk about chutzpah.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NorthReport wrote:

When I see Marine Le Pen’s Party say no second referendum that it itself is enough to confirm to me that a second referendum is essential

When I see almost every right-winger in the UK say no second referendum it confirms to me that one is needed

That’s just basic math for me as I certainly would not want to be allied with those right-wingers because those right-wingers are out to screw working people seniors and the poor

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1131169/Brexit-news-france-violation-of-democracy-remain-campaign

You know perfectly well nobody here is allied with the far right.  The reality is that Brexit CAN'T be stopped and that the best that can be done is Soft Brexit.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:

Ken, a mantra that appears in almost all your posts is that a second referendum is impossible,if it were Remain would lose, and that Brexit is inevitable. 

The evidence does not support this. Brexit in various forms has consistently failed in Parliament. Johnson is no more likely to effect it than May. A growing majority (55% or more) now supports Remain. There is a strong movement reported today to commit Labour(despite its woeful leader) to an unequivocal Second referendum position. Early indications from the EU election are that the vote in Remain areas is much higher than in Leaveareas.

Democracy is on the side of Remain. 

Surely you have to agree (to use your strained terminology) that your mantra is pretty mindless.


 

What failed was Hard Brexit.  Nothing resembling Soft Brexit-and remember, since the EU won't ever bend on anything, the only possible compromise is on the terms of Brexit-has been presented to the HoC yet.  May just kept sending them the exact same terms, over and over.  Had she incorporated Corbyn's five demands, Soft Brexit WOULD have passed.

Boris is the arch-Leaver.  Nothing can make him accept anything May wouldn't accept.  Every Tory MP and every DUP MP will always vote against a second referendum.  That math, by itself, makes it impossible to get a second referendum in which Remain was an option.

Why not accept that Soft Brexit, which would keep the only good parts of the EU while freeing the UK from the bad, is the best possible choice?

Nothing progressive or positive would come of staying in the EU, now that we know for certain its compulsory austerity policies can never be ended or modified.

What needs to happen is to scrap the existing model and create a new, social Europe, in which you'd have unity without mandatory austerity and privatization-since the mandatory austerity and privatization requirements are doing no positive good and are simply causing the growth of the fascist nationalist parties, why not work for that instead?

I'm not even asking that in terms of whatever you feel about Corbyn-it's clear what you feel about him; he could have Labour in a twenty five point lead in the polls and you would STILL be venomously denouncing him, because you want him replaced by an anti-democratic, anti-activist autocrat like Mulcair.  If it wasn't the EU, you'd find something, ANYTHING else to demonize the man over, as you showed when you brought the totally discredited canard about Corbyn being soft on anti-Semitism and the Labour Left supposedly being swarmed with anti-Jewish bigots.

The plain fact is, none of the people who stood against Corbyn in the 2015 or 2016 leadership contests would be doing any better in the polls.  None of them had a damn thing to offer as leader, and none could get the votes of anyone under 50-trust me, there is no such thing as a young "Labour moderate".  Nobody under half a century in age still thinks the Left deserved the treatment Kinnock and Blair administered to it OR still thinks that there's be a difference between an anti-socialist, pro-austerity, pro-military intervention Labour and the Tories.

And the reason I react as strongly as I do to your posts is that most humans don't think there's ever a case for vilifying a figure of honesty and decency.

Who knows why anyone is still trying to fight to stop Brexit when it can't be stopped and when there's no reason we could even be sure a second referendum would reverse the outcome of the first?  The issues that caused the Leave victory-in particular, the abandonment of the North of England by HM governments of both major parties and by the EU-have not been addressed.  The EU has not offered, and will never offer, and can never be made, to remove the restrictions on nationalization-nothing Labour can be DONE without nationalization-and the restrictions on spending-nothing Labour can be done with a strictly balanced budget, especially without massively increasing taxes on the wealthy.

Farage would be right back there campaigning for Leave again, and everyone who believed him the first time would believe him the second.

The support level Remain has is at almost the exact same level it was going into the first referendum, which means that, once again, the lead wouldn't hold.

Why put everyone through that again, rather than focus on the possible: prosperity and a socialist future under Soft Brexit?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Neither Johnson nor whomever else becomes the next Tory leader will ever permit a second referendum.  That's why I've argued that what matters is getting the Tories out-something you don't care about, for some reason.

A UK which stayed in the EU and in which the Tories stayed in power-which, given your exclusive focus on attacking Corbyn while never saying anything against anyone on the government side of the House-would be a country where hope could never exist, where nothing socialist, social democratic or even mildly progressive could ever be possible.

NorthReport

Tell that to the 250,000 people who have already lost their jobs over Brexit

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

They've lost their jobs to uncertainty and corporate greed.  Soft Brexit would have removed the uncertainty.

Aristotleded24

Ken Burch wrote:

nicky wrote:

Ken, a mantra that appears in almost all your posts is that a second referendum is impossible,if it were Remain would lose, and that Brexit is inevitable. 

The evidence does not support this. Brexit in various forms has consistently failed in Parliament. Johnson is no more likely to effect it than May. A growing majority (55% or more) now supports Remain. There is a strong movement reported today to commit Labour(despite its woeful leader) to an unequivocal Second referendum position. Early indications from the EU election are that the vote in Remain areas is much higher than in Leaveareas.

Democracy is on the side of Remain. 

Surely you have to agree (to use your strained terminology) that your mantra is pretty mindless.


 

What failed was Hard Brexit.  Nothing resembling Soft Brexit-and remember, since the EU won't ever bend on anything, the only possible compromise is on the terms of Brexit-has been presented to the HoC yet.  May just kept sending them the exact same terms, over and over.  Had she incorporated Corbyn's five demands, Soft Brexit WOULD have passed.

I'd also add to that, Ken, that one of the reasons Brexit is so problematic is because of power struggles within the Conservative Party. David Cameron and Theresa May don't want Brexit, and were so out of touch with popular sentiment that it never occured to them to ask "what if this referendum passes?" The Conservative Party base leans more towards Brexit. The disconnect between the party base and the party elites is also part of the problem. And instead of dealing with the issue honestly, the Conservatives are playing political power games with it for their own selfish ends, without regard to the consequences of their behaviour for anybody. Of course, Labour is not completely without fault here. Many power brokers within Labour are anti-Brexit. So say you voted for Brexit in the last referendum, and it's clear that the top 2 parties will not carry that out. Along comes a Brexit party. What's the only way to get the Brexit you voted for in this scenario? No wonder this thing has been a huge mess.

As has been said before, Brexit means Brexit. The people voted for Brexit, it's time for Brexit to take place. Just get on with Brexit and use Brexit to get the best possible outcomes for the British people.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

nicky wrote:

Ken, a mantra that appears in almost all your posts is that a second referendum is impossible,if it were Remain would lose, and that Brexit is inevitable. 

The evidence does not support this. Brexit in various forms has consistently failed in Parliament. Johnson is no more likely to effect it than May. A growing majority (55% or more) now supports Remain. There is a strong movement reported today to commit Labour(despite its woeful leader) to an unequivocal Second referendum position. Early indications from the EU election are that the vote in Remain areas is much higher than in Leaveareas.

Democracy is on the side of Remain. 

Surely you have to agree (to use your strained terminology) that your mantra is pretty mindless.


 

What failed was Hard Brexit.  Nothing resembling Soft Brexit-and remember, since the EU won't ever bend on anything, the only possible compromise is on the terms of Brexit-has been presented to the HoC yet.  May just kept sending them the exact same terms, over and over.  Had she incorporated Corbyn's five demands, Soft Brexit WOULD have passed.

I'd also add to that, Ken, that one of the reasons Brexit is so problematic is because of power struggles within the Conservative Party. David Cameron and Theresa May don't want Brexit, and were so out of touch with popular sentiment that it never occured to them to ask "what if this referendum passes?" The Conservative Party base leans more towards Brexit. The disconnect between the party base and the party elites is also part of the problem. And instead of dealing with the issue honestly, the Conservatives are playing political power games with it for their own selfish ends, without regard to the consequences of their behaviour for anybody. Of course, Labour is not completely without fault here. Many power brokers within Labour are anti-Brexit. So say you voted for Brexit in the last referendum, and it's clear that the top 2 parties will not carry that out. Along comes a Brexit party. What's the only way to get the Brexit you voted for in this scenario? No wonder this thing has been a huge mess.

As has been said before, Brexit means Brexit. The people voted for Brexit, it's time for Brexit to take place. Just get on with Brexit and use Brexit to get the best possible outcomes for the British people.

And, of course, we must never forget that, no matter what the motives of those who joined the anti-Brexit fight more recently, the only reason that fight was started was so that the Blairites-and yes, all right-wing Labour people can fairly be called Blairites-the differences between "Third Way" and "Blue Labour" are too trivial to matter to anyone-could use the issue against Corbyn-so they could use it to try and force him to split the party now, and to allow them to perpetuate the despicable lie that Corbyn could have prevented the Leave victory, but refused to do so.  I've asked those who perpetuate that canard, over and over, to offer a single example of anything Corbyn could have said that would single-handedly have flipped 2% of the UK electorate from Leave to Remain, and especially to explain what he could possibly have said to those in the North of England who voted Leave not on xenophobia grounds but because the EU essentially colluded with both Tory and "New Labour" governments to make sure that none of the prosperity that London and the wealthier parts of the South of England may have gained from the EU ever reached the North.  I've received no answers to that, over and over, which is a clear admission that Corbyn never deserved their invective on that.

No one who could possibly have been elected leader instead of Corbyn in 2015 or 2016 had anything better to offer on the EU issue, and none of them could have flipped the North from Leave to Remain either.

And there was no good reason to even have held Euro-elections in the UK, given that it has always been uncertain at best that any MEPs elected from the UK would be eligible to serve out their full terms.

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I wish there was a Left alternative to Brexit.  I wish it was possible to change the EU, to remove its unjustified restrictions on nationalization and deficit spending by member states, but the institution, however noble the intent of those who created it, cannot be changed, because an institution not run by democratic means-the EU is run solely by the bureaucrats in Brussels, rather than being run democratically by decisions made by the elected European Parliament, the most powerless and irrelevant legislative body on the planet.  I've asked for proposals for how it could be made to change, and other than an admirable call for a Europe-wide revolutionary movement, I've heard nothing.

In the end, what needs to happen is the end of the EU and its replacement by a genuinely democratic system of European governance, once in which the budgetary and economic policies of member states are recognized as solely the purview of individual nations, and one in which the European Parliament, not the bureaucracy, made policy decision on matter that truly are of all-Europe concern.

 

NDPP

On Labour Mendacity: Brexit 'Soft' = BS Brexit = Remain

https://twitter.com/JohnNemoBell/status/1131873769998438405

"When it comes to Brexit, 'compromise' has always meant Leaving in name only. The political and economic logic is binary. There are two optimal states: Remain and integrate, or really Leave and exploit the freedom. Chinese proverb: It is dangerous to leap a canyon in two bounds."

NDPP

Tony Benn: Britain Must Leave the EU To Restore Democracy

https://youtu.be/dQY2CHx4d3U

"Leaving the EU is a democratic and not a nationalist argument."

He was right then. He is right now. 

josh

Just a shame he couldn’t have been around a few more years.

NDPP

Yes. The sound common sense democracy of Benn has been deserted. Appalling that Labour's deputy leader is now openly calling for a second vote to overturn the unimplemented first vote in service to a foreign neoliberal autocracy in contravention of its own manifesto. This is anti-democracy. UK Labour, especially the PLP has been taken over by Blairite backstabbers and Zionists. It has betrayed its working class base and now woos metropolitan, cosmopolitans in London instead. Henceforth it will look and operate like the  elitest NDP - support Israel, endorse neoliberal 'free trade' deals and support imperialism, NATO etc. Benn must be rolling over in his grave.

NDPP

Norman Finkelstein, who is an expert on Zionist Israel, a supporter of UK Labour and a keen observer of the rise and fall of Jeremy Corbyn attributes  its present demise and that of its leader thus:

"If Corbyn loses a lot of people in the Labour Party are going to blame it on those Jews who fomented the antisemitism, witch-hunt hysteria. And the big problem there is it's true. Jews were the spearhead of the campaign to stop Corbyn. That's not antisemitism that's factually based. They played the most aggressive role and the most visible...They are the enablers of this concerted conspiracy by the whole of British elite society to destroy Jeremy Corbyn."

Labouring Under AntiSemitism?

https://www.rt.com/shows/renegade-inc/459776-labour-antisemitism-racism/

Finkelstein's cautionary tale of how powerful Zionist lobbying elites on behalf of Israeli geopolitical interests have effectively destroyed the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn should also serve as a warning of the clear and present danger  posed to democratic politics not only in Britain but in America, Europe and right here at home.

josh

They may have been effective, but given the polls showing Labour leading, I don’t know if I’d say they’ve destroyed his leadership.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

josh wrote:

They may have been effective, but given the polls showing Labour leading, I don’t know if I’d say they’ve destroyed his leadership.

Corbyn's chances for victory hinge on the EU issue being resolved-which is the main reason the Labour Right invented the "People's Vote" charade-they knew that refusing to let this issue go, refusing to admit that it's not Corbyn's fault that Brexit won in the referendum, is the one remaining line of attack they have on him.

What's sickening is that Tom Watson, the right-winger who is deputy leader and is leading the badgering to force Corbyn to go against party policy and center the unwinnable fight for a second referendum with Remain as an option, was a Leave supporter in the referendum.  How does he get away with blaming Jeremy for something he himself WORKED to see happen?

nicky

14%

the worst Labour result since 1910 when they only ran in about 20% of the seats.

today is Corbyn’s 70th birthday.

surely it is time for him to step aside for the good of the Labour Party.

Aristotleded24

nicky wrote:
14%

the worst Labour result since 1910 when they only ran in about 20% of the seats.

today is Corbyn’s 70th birthday.

surely it is time for him to step aside for the good of the Labour Party.

Why? So that the Tories can call a snap election to capitalize on the inevitable leadership challenges that a change in leadership would result in?

I guess that's okay for right-leaning people who live comfortable lives and who have the luxury of being able to obsess over trivial things like Brexit. The rest of us who are having a hard time paying the bills, looking at the state of the natural world, and even wondering if it's okay to have children or if we will ever have a chance to have children of our own feel differently.

cco

There was a European Parliament in 1910? How did the Brexit Party do in that election?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:

14%

the worst Labour result since 1910 when they only ran in about 20% of the seats.

today is Corbyn’s 70th birthday.

surely it is time for him to step aside for the good of the Labour Party.

It would only be legitimate for you to expect Corbyn to stand down-any Labour leader would have had to take the stand he took on Brexit, since a leader can't just unilaterally discard party policy-if there were a guarantee that the PLP-a group which should not have a veto on who is allowed on the leadership ballot at all, since it's there fault that the incompetent, popularity-free Gordon Brown was allowed to stand without opposition in 2008, and since they have no respect for the opinions of the vast majority of party members and supporters who want full internal democracy restored and for the party to make a clear break with all parts of the Blair and Brown era-to guarantee that someone who hold's Corbyn's views, the views that the prohibitive majority of winnable young voters in the UK hold-but we voth know they won't allow anyone to the left of Yvette Cooper on that ballot at all, and they'll probably try to impose a reactionary like Tom Watson in the job.  Labour can't win if the party moves to the right on any significant number of issues and it can't win if all the young are lost, as they will be lost if the party re-imposes the anti-democratic political culture they had under Blair.

No one will be drawn to the party by a swing to the right or the expulsion of socialists.  No one will turn to it if it goes  back to sucking up to CEO's again.

You've hated Corbyn the whole time and he did nothing to deserve your hatred.  He never deserved to be smeared as even an abetter of anti-Semitism and he never deserved to be blamed for the Leave victory in the referendum when there was no speech he could have given to anyone anywhere that could have stopped it.

And you can't claim to be a left activist and spend years fighting to replace a left-wing leader with a non-left leader.  The left can never benefit again from having a leader who is hostile to the left and to left activists.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

The Remain voters wouldn't have voted for even if it had joined the Right and centered the unwinnable, thereby pointless fight for a second referendum.  There was no way of doing that without telling the North of England "we don't care if you live or die".

 

nicky

Ken, you’re like the knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

no matter how many limbs get chopped off the hapless Corbyn you still pretend that he is viable.

i don’t hate Corbyn, as you endlessly and ridiculously pontificate. But I have an abiding regard for the Labour Party which his hopeless leadership is dooming to impotence and irrelevance.

you seem to think Labour is just fine and does not need to reassess either its leadership or its strategy. No matter how many limbs it loses.

josh

Speaking of the Holy Grail, you’re willing to blow up the political system and see a far right leader possibly gain power in order to block a democratic decision of the people and stay in the sainted European Bankers Union.  Everything can be sacrificed in order to achieve that goal.

NDPP

"We. Accept. The. Results. Of. The. Referendum. Britain. Is. Leaving. The. European. Union." - Jermy Corbyn, UK Labour

https://twitter.com/BBCLookNorth/status/862292802708832260

 

"Labour as we know it is dead. A coalition of Blair Labour and Corbyn Labour, of Leave voters and Remain members, right-wing wreckers and liberals masquerading as left*. Unless Corbyn sharply turns to Brexit and his heartland and confronts and routs the Blairites it's over."

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1132808714791149568

*Welcome to the new UK NDP.

Pogo Pogo's picture

I still think Labour should highlight its internal division as a strength. That they as a party represent in their split in the country. Turn a weakness into a strength.

NDPP

Galloway: Brexit Bludgeon Batters Britain's Politics All Over Again

https://on.rt.com/9v81

"...I have known Corbyn for nigh 40 years and for decades had a close personal and political relationship with him. I have been his most stalwart defender on a daily basis in the British media for four long years - I could show you my scars.  And so it pains me to say that this is the end of the line for him..."

josh

Corbyn is faced with an almost impossible political situation on Brexit.  And that doesn’t count the constant war he’s had to fight against his own parliamentary party as well as the anti-Semitic smear campaign.  To cut and run on him now is just plain wrong.  

NDPP

The problem is he isn't fighting 'against' but colluding with. I realize that social democratic surrender monkeys like the Blairite, neoliberalist NDP have long been acceptable here in Canada but clearly the British public doesn't have the stomach for such waffling and weakness. Those who made him can and should discard him if he can't keep his promises and abandons them as seems quite clearly the case now with Brexit.

josh

Let’s see how things so go.  Hopefully the UK will finally leave by October.

NorthReport

Personally I like Corbyn, what little I know about him.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:

Ken, you’re like the knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

no matter how many limbs get chopped off the hapless Corbyn you still pretend that he is viable.

i don’t hate Corbyn, as you endlessly and ridiculously pontificate. But I have an abiding regard for the Labour Party which his hopeless leadership is dooming to impotence and irrelevance.

you seem to think Labour is just fine and does not need to reassess either its leadership or its strategy. No matter how many limbs it loses.

His leadership isn't hopeless-he has been the first Labour leader to inspire any enthusiasm among young voters or any increase in voter turnout since perhaps Keir Hardie-and the simple fact is that ANY leader who'd been under the relentless orchestrated attacks, the endless false accusations of abetting bigotry, the perpetual smear campaigns-would be in this situation. 

An honest person would have to admit by now that there's no reason to ever again accuse the guy of abetting anti-Semitism in a country where anti-Semitism is almost totally a right-wing phenomenon and in which it is the least prevalent form of bigotry of all.                                                                                All Corbyn is guilty of, if anyone can really call this a crime, is speaking out with eloquence and moral force against what Zionism has done to the people of Palestine.   He has said nothing on that issue that has ever been unjust to the Israeil government, and nothing that anyone could fairly call untrue.

Here is the reality-criticism of what the Israeli government does to Palestinians is virtually never driven by prejudice against Jewish people.  Opposition to Zionism-and I say that as a person who personally thinks that either a two-state model or a federation betwen pre-1967 Israel and Palestine, accompanied by a reparations, acknowledgments of injustices inflicted, and an unqualified admission that ordinary Palestinians did not deserve dispossession and forced exile for what the Arab Legion, a group made up almost entirely of non-Palestinians, did or may have done in the 1947-48-is also largely free of that form of bigotry-unlike "Christian Zionism", which was historically driven, as much by the desire of British, European, and North American Christians to make their countries voluntarily Judenrein as it was out of any alleged concerns about the world's Jewish communities or any wish to see those communities live in anything resembling safety.   

There is nothing to gain for Labour in Corbyn or any other possible leader ignoring party policy on Brexit-what he has done and said on that is what any leader would have HAD to do or say; the leader does not have the option to just discard party policy on the fly in that party-and for every vote Corbyn might have prevented going to the LibDems or the Greens on that issue, he would have LOST a vote to the Brexit Party.  As it was, the Brexit Party's showing was actually several percentage points lower than it had been expected to be; it was just under 32% and polls at the end of the campaign had it around 40%. Had Labour centered the unwinnable fight for a second referendum, even though we know that can't be made to happen while the Tories remain in power, the Brexit Party showing would have been more like 42%.  Nothing would have been better for Labour or the country in having THAT happen.

I would agree with one thing on strategy:  since there was NO strategy that could have resulted in Labour doing well in the Euro-elections this year, they should simply not have fielded candidates for it.  

 

 

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