Corbyn’s Labour and The Path to Power

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Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
..there is nothing to accept ken. there is no deal yet soft or hard.

I think Ken was suggesting that at this point, it's either a soft deal or a hard deal, but that the time to have a do-over on Brexit itself is past.

That's what I am saying.  There is no current agreement, but the only possibilities now are soft Brexit or hard Brexit, with soft Brexit being the best possible arrangement.  I'd be fine with having a plebiscite on soft Brexit vs. hard Brexit.

 The only reason Corbyn is being targeted on this issue is that the Labour Right STILL hasn't given up on forcing him out as leader and(much more imporantly)preserving the current anti-democratic decision-making structure within Labour, while preventing any break from the indefensibly bloodthirsty foreign and military policy Blair imposed on the party in the Nineties.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..it's true that the labour right is still engaged to oust corbyn and that will not end soon. i agree that some have cynically joined with those asking for a final vote but i disagree that is the only reason for targeting corbyn labour. 

..the justification corbyn used for the soft brexit position was the referendum. the referendum that was full of fear mongering, false promises, outright lies and racism. but when there is something of substance on the table, the final deal, the population is denied a say. this is wrong. and has not gone unnoticed. imo this is a mistake being made by corbyn labour.      

josh

You can be sure that had the vote gone the other way, the people who are now calling for a revote would be saying that it is a settled matter.  If false promises, lies and racism were the measuring stick, than every election would have to be subject to a do over.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..this is way more crucial than an election that can be changed 4 or 5 years down the road. and it's not about outcome but the weight given to that referendum vs the final deal vote.

..even now you have different interests pulling away at this shitty process trying to manipulate it towards their ends. interests such as the powerful and secret conservative group i posted about not to long ago. in contravention to the rules i might add and reportedly able to bend the prime minister to their liking. yet folks asking for a vote are accused of what..sour grapes, asking for a redo.

..how this is not recognized as the travesty it is leaves me in wonder. how arrogant and wrong of politicians to take the position that the know better and that the population can't be trusted.

josh

Seems to me it's more like various countries' votes on entering the EU.  They were required to vote again until they voted the "right" way.  Right in more ways than one.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..i disagree josh.

..labour has already agreed to the neoliberal single market. this represents the low end of the swing to the right put in your terms. it can only get worse from there. yet you have a problem with a vote. i just don't get your logic.

josh

There's more to it than just the single market.  The power of the UK to intervene in its own economy, for instance.  The single market dates back to the early 1970s.  Maastricht wasn't until 1992.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..that doesn't clarify anything for me josh..sorry. please indulge me for a bit.

..when i produce this piece that argues that the single market can restrict the uk's ability to intervene in it economy you are saying there is a way around that? if you are saying this can you explain please?

Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour vs. the Single Market

josh

In three interrelated areas EU rules would place severe restrictions on a future Corbyn government: State Aid, public procurement and nationalization. These are not minor issues. They lie at the heart of any attempt to transform Britain’s economy in a socialist direction, especially when it comes to industrial policy. As the debate over Brexit rumbles on it is clear that the EU would place unique barriers to a Corbyn-led Labour government—making even a reversal to WTO rules more advantageous than either EU or Single Market membership in these respects.

I'd prefer they be out of both the EU and the single market.  But the common market without the EU is a lot better than the common market with the EU.

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..txs. i understand your position better.

..i am with you in wanting corbyn labour to pursue it's manifesto. yet i can't help believing that the possibility of a hard brexit happening rather than a soft one is real..and should be put to a vote.

..to me that is less dangerous than leaving it up to manipulations of powerful forces no matter how the vote goes. this at least survives the original intent of the brexit push by the right.      

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..i'm not sure when the brexit processes will come to an end but i'm hoping more information will come forward on what the population is thinking and feeling. i would like to see more indication on which possibilities are more likely. in short i would like to see the possibility of a light at the end of the tunnel.

josh

Also, as I said, Corbyn is walking a very delicate tightrope here.  So far he's managed not to fall off.  Given his druthers, dating back to the early 1980s, I'm sure Corbyn would like to get out of the EU without staying in the common market.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Pro-Corbyn group to launch drive for public vote on Brexit deal

A pro-Corbyn group is to launch its own drive for a “people’s vote” on a final Brexit deal, with the aim of persuading leftwing Labour members concerned about backing a cross-party campaign.

The grassroots Labour for a People’s Vote group, which is led by several former Momentum figures, as well as trade union leaders, has the backing of more than 60 constituency Labour parties (CLPs) to try to force a vote at this year’s party conference to change Jeremy Corbyn’s Brexit policy.

The group will call for Labour to oppose the government’s final Brexit deal, which the party has said it would do if the deal with the EU did not meet six tests set by the shadow Brexit secretary, Keir Starmer. The group will then campaign for the party to go further and campaign for a public vote on the deal with an option to stay in the EU should voters reject the deal.

quote:

Labour activists involved in the parallel drive for a people’s vote on the final deal believe in the need for leftwingers to have their own campaign, which does not disparage Corbyn.

“It is essential that there is clear red water between the mainstream centrist remain campaigns and any serious attempt to get Labour to strengthen its Brexit position,” a source close to the campaign said.

“Labour members are overwhelmingly on the left, and will never be won over by centrist MPs or a cross-party alliance that includes Tories. Ultimately they have different aims. This is about making sure that a Corbyn government can succeed.”

The group’s launch statement has been signed by the general secretary of the TSSA union, Manuel Cortes, the economist Ann Pettifor, the former Momentum steering group member Michael Chessum and the former CWU general secretary Billy Hayes.

The statement says a Norway-style deal in which the UK becomes a member of the European Economic Area is “untenable” and instead argues for a full reversal, saying the effects of Brexit would make much worse the prospects that would face a socialist Labour government.

“We are therefore coming together to urge the movement of which we are a part to oppose the Tories’ destructive Brexit and unite the country behind a radical and hopeful vision for the future,” it says.

Paul Hilder, a Momentum member who ran to be Labour’s general secretary this year, said: “The overwhelming majority of Labour members are both supporters of Jeremy Corbyn and opponents of Tory Brexit, but until now, we have been shut out of the debate. This is too important to be left to a handful of anti-Corbyn centrists whose motives are in question and who cannot even win a vote in Westminster.”

Pettifor, an advisor to the shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, said: “Only an alliance of a left-led Labour party with socialists and progressive partners across the continent can challenge the dominant Anglo-American economic model of globalisation that is causing such harm in Britain and across the world.”

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

epaulo13 wrote:

Pro-Corbyn group to launch drive for public vote on Brexit deal

A pro-Corbyn group is to launch its own drive for a “people’s vote” on a final Brexit deal, with the aim of persuading leftwing Labour members concerned about backing a cross-party campaign.

The grassroots Labour for a People’s Vote group, which is led by several former Momentum figures, as well as trade union leaders, has the backing of more than 60 constituency Labour parties (CLPs) to try to force a vote at this year’s party conference to change Jeremy Corbyn’s Brexit policy.

The group will call for Labour to oppose the government’s final Brexit deal, which the party has said it would do if the deal with the EU did not meet six tests set by the shadow Brexit secretary, Keir Starmer. The group will then campaign for the party to go further and campaign for a public vote on the deal with an option to stay in the EU should voters reject the deal.

quote:

Labour activists involved in the parallel drive for a people’s vote on the final deal believe in the need for leftwingers to have their own campaign, which does not disparage Corbyn.

“It is essential that there is clear red water between the mainstream centrist remain campaigns and any serious attempt to get Labour to strengthen its Brexit position,” a source close to the campaign said.

“Labour members are overwhelmingly on the left, and will never be won over by centrist MPs or a cross-party alliance that includes Tories. Ultimately they have different aims. This is about making sure that a Corbyn government can succeed.”

The group’s launch statement has been signed by the general secretary of the TSSA union, Manuel Cortes, the economist Ann Pettifor, the former Momentum steering group member Michael Chessum and the former CWU general secretary Billy Hayes.

The statement says a Norway-style deal in which the UK becomes a member of the European Economic Area is “untenable” and instead argues for a full reversal, saying the effects of Brexit would make much worse the prospects that would face a socialist Labour government.

“We are therefore coming together to urge the movement of which we are a part to oppose the Tories’ destructive Brexit and unite the country behind a radical and hopeful vision for the future,” it says.

Paul Hilder, a Momentum member who ran to be Labour’s general secretary this year, said: “The overwhelming majority of Labour members are both supporters of Jeremy Corbyn and opponents of Tory Brexit, but until now, we have been shut out of the debate. This is too important to be left to a handful of anti-Corbyn centrists whose motives are in question and who cannot even win a vote in Westminster.”

Pettifor, an advisor to the shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, said: “Only an alliance of a left-led Labour party with socialists and progressive partners across the continent can challenge the dominant Anglo-American economic model of globalisation that is causing such harm in Britain and across the world.”

And THAT sort of a vote would be fine.  What would be pointless would be trying to have a vote to reverse Brexit...since it's impossible to reverse it.  The EU is not, under any circumstances, going to say "ok, you can stay after all".

A vote for soft Brexit or hard Brexit is the only legitimate vote.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Keir Starmer: Labour has six tests for Brexit – if they’re not met we won’t back the final deal in parliament

quote:

Starmer’s six tests for the Brexit deal are:

1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU?

2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union?

3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities?

4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom?

5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime?

6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK?

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Open Labour unanimously backs full debate on Brexit at party conference

Open Labour held its annual conference on Saturday, which focussed on the Left’s future relationship with Europe. The meeting saw the soft left pressure group unanimously vote in favour of a full debate on Brexit at Labour Party conference in September.

Although the motion that passed noted “the difficult situation not just of Labour’s front bench, but also of its MPs”, it resolved to undertake “a roadshow type campaign” across the country and support a party conference debate.

The move echoes the efforts of LabourSay.EU, the campaign launched by NEC members endorsed by Progress and Labour First that demands the party gives Labour members a “meaningful vote” on its Brexit policy.

During discussion of Labour and the EU, TSSA general secretary Manuel Cortes said there was a need to “end the myth” that staying in the EU prevents renationalisation of industries that have been privatised by the Conservatives. He described that argument, often espoused by ‘Lexiteers’, as “a load of crap”.

quote:

John McDonnell featured as the day’s keynote speaker, and used his speech to provide a detailed account of his plans for the economy under a Labour government. The Shadow Chancellor also reiterated his opposition to Heathrow expansion and joked about nationalising the Daily Mail. Touching on education policy, he praised Angela Rayner – who has been widely tipped as a potential future leader – as “the Nye Bevan of our time”.

josh

epaulo13 wrote:

Pro-Corbyn group to launch drive for public vote on Brexit deal

A pro-Corbyn group is to launch its own drive for a “people’s vote” on a final Brexit deal, with the aim of persuading leftwing Labour members concerned about backing a cross-party campaign.

The grassroots Labour for a People’s Vote group, which is led by several former Momentum figures, as well as trade union leaders, has the backing of more than 60 constituency Labour parties (CLPs) to try to force a vote at this year’s party conference to change Jeremy Corbyn’s Brexit policy.

The group will call for Labour to oppose the government’s final Brexit deal, which the party has said it would do if the deal with the EU did not meet six tests set by the shadow Brexit secretary, Keir Starmer. The group will then campaign for the party to go further and campaign for a public vote on the deal with an option to stay in the EU should voters reject the deal.

quote:

Labour activists involved in the parallel drive for a people’s vote on the final deal believe in the need for leftwingers to have their own campaign, which does not disparage Corbyn.

“It is essential that there is clear red water between the mainstream centrist remain campaigns and any serious attempt to get Labour to strengthen its Brexit position,” a source close to the campaign said.

“Labour members are overwhelmingly on the left, and will never be won over by centrist MPs or a cross-party alliance that includes Tories. Ultimately they have different aims. This is about making sure that a Corbyn government can succeed.”

The group’s launch statement has been signed by the general secretary of the TSSA union, Manuel Cortes, the economist Ann Pettifor, the former Momentum steering group member Michael Chessum and the former CWU general secretary Billy Hayes.

The statement says a Norway-style deal in which the UK becomes a member of the European Economic Area is “untenable” and instead argues for a full reversal, saying the effects of Brexit would make much worse the prospects that would face a socialist Labour government.

“We are therefore coming together to urge the movement of which we are a part to oppose the Tories’ destructive Brexit and unite the country behind a radical and hopeful vision for the future,” it says.

Paul Hilder, a Momentum member who ran to be Labour’s general secretary this year, said: “The overwhelming majority of Labour members are both supporters of Jeremy Corbyn and opponents of Tory Brexit, but until now, we have been shut out of the debate. This is too important to be left to a handful of anti-Corbyn centrists whose motives are in question and who cannot even win a vote in Westminster.”

Pettifor, an advisor to the shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, said: “Only an alliance of a left-led Labour party with socialists and progressive partners across the continent can challenge the dominant Anglo-American economic model of globalisation that is causing such harm in Britain and across the world.”

I’m unclear as to what they are for.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..from laboursay.eu

BREXIT GIVE LABOUR MEMBERS A SAY

MODEL MOTION

Call on your branch/CLP to back a Brexit vote at Labour party conference.

​This CLP/branch notes that:

  • On 23rd June 2016, the UK voted in a referendum to leave the European Union.

  • The referendum result was very close, with 51.9% of votes cast for Leave and 48.1% of votes cast for Remain.

  • Neither the Leave campaign nor the ballot paper specified what ‘type’ of Brexit would be pursued if Leave were to win – membership of European single market and the customs union was not on the ballot paper.

  • At Labour party conference 2016, it was resolved that ‘Unless the final settlement proves to be acceptable, then the option of retaining EU membership should be retained. The final settlement should therefore be subject to approval, through Parliament and potentially through a general election or referendum.’ Party members have not had a say since Article 50 was triggered.​

This CLP/branch believes that:​

  • Labour members should have a say on Labour party policy, especially on such a contentious and important issue as Brexit.

  • The most democratic way for members to do this is to have a meaningful vote at Labour party conference.

This CLP/branch resolves:

  • To call on the Labour leadership to give members a meaningful vote on Brexit policy at Labour party conference 2018.

  • For this CLP to support a contemporary resolution on the issue ahead of the September 2018 deadline.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

I’m unclear as to what they are for.

..i'm trying to work it out as well.

josh

Which makes me suspect that the whole purpose of all the activity is to return the pre-Brexit vote status quo.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..that's a possibility. a 2nd referendum is called for by some the folks involved. the main thrust seems to be the preventing a hard brexit. a process is unfolding to have a debate in sept. i'm sure different perspectives will emerge as to what folks want. this doesn't seem to be a one mind thing except for the position on hard brexit.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..i'd like to report that my anxiety over hard breixt has been reduced considerably. :) all do to the recent developments of pro corbyn groups' drive towards a brexit debate at the next labour convention and a final deal vote.

My Momentum

Welcome to My Momentum, the new digital platform that enables members to learn, organise and make decisions together.

Data entered on this site will be processed in accordance with our Privacy policy.

Promoted by Jeremy for Labour Ltd and Momentum, both of Cypriot Centre, Earlham Grove, Wood Green, London, N22 5HJ.

quote:

3) Digital Democracy Platform:
My Momentum, Momentum’s digital democracy platform, has been used to consult members on Momentum’s submissions to the democracy review. Soon it will enable members to initiate and vote on campaign priorities, constitutional amendments or overturning decisions by the NCG. All members will be able to vote online with each member having a vote. Any members who are unable to vote online can contact the National Office to vote via other accessible means.

NDPP

Jeremy Corbyn Suffers Rebellion As MPs Back 'Secretive' Canada Trade Deal CETA as Jeremy Corbyn Suffers Labour Rebellion

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1011755223155691528

"Labour has suffered a rebellion after MPs backed a huge trade deal with Canada - despite it being branded 'secretive' and 'marred by controversy'. MPs, most of them Tories, voted 315-36 for the 2,255-page CETA deal in the House of Commons today after a debate lasting just 90 minutes.

Labour's leadership refused to back the deal - saying it was 'conducted in secrecy and with minimal consultation' and had prompted huge protests on the streets..."

Here few notice or care.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Most of Labour is pro-Corbyn and anti-Brexit – we must be heard

Time is running out to shape the debate in the party and the public. Momentum’s petition to stop a Tory Brexit is a vital step

quote:

We do not have much time to change the terms of the Brexit debate – both within the Labour party and in the wider country. There is now only one kind of Brexit on offer – the one negotiated by Theresa May. It is set to be put to parliament in October, and it will be an attack on workers’ rights, human rights and environmental standards. Its immediate effect will be not only to sink the British economy, but also to deregulate it and bring us into line with more aggressive neoliberal financial models. It will mean fewer jobs, lower wages and declining living standards for workers – and the effects on the public finances could scupper Labour’s transformative programme.

But for the left, Brexit is about a broader set of processes and ideas. The key narrative on which it is built is about blaming migrants – like me – for a social and economic crisis created by the elite. Brexit is a rightwing project; its key components are nationalism and a drive to get rid of “red tape”. All over the continent, the far right is on the march, attacking refugees, stripping away reproductive rights and challenging the bedrock of peace in Europe. If its narratives become mainstream in the UK, they will steamroller the left just as they have done elsewhere.

The task of bringing back round both the Labour leadership and the majority of members is being made infinitely harder by the behaviour of some in Labour, who not only oppose Brexit, but view it as a useful tool in fighting for control of the party. The entire project of the Corbyn leadership has been built under siege from the centrist establishment – and it is understandable that members are sensitive about that. New Labour and its political acolytes were, as much as anyone, responsible for the deregulation of the British economy, the anti-immigrant politics and the alienation that drove so much of the leave vote in the first place.

For everyone on the Labour left – from relatively recent members, people who have come back to the Labour fold, or the stoic few who slogged through the years when managerial policy replaced real politics within the party – a radical Labour is the only type we want. We want to see its agenda of massive redistribution of wealth and power, we want it to transform society, and we also believe this is the only platform that can meaningfully bring back working-class leave voters.

josh

Pretty ironic calling Brexit a right-wing project when the EU was a right-wing project.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Mapped – hard Brexit guru Singham's 'unparalleled' access to government

quote:

Today news has broken that Singham, who also heads a trade unit at the Institute of Economic Affairs, has stood down from the "committee of experts" advising the Department for International trade. Singham, who has been described as the "hard Brexit Svengali", has emerged as one of the most influential voices in Brexiter circles. 

Data compiled by openDemocracy also shows that since the Brexit vote in June 2016, Singham has also had dozens of meetings with British government ministers including Boris Johnson, David Davis and Steve Baker, as well as Fox. The meetings and events were either unminuted or information relating to them was withheld by government departments. Singham also had undeclared meetings with Brexit ministers, according to Buzzfeed reports.

Here, for the first time, is the full extent and details of Singham's connections with government ministers and officials. There is no allegation of any wrong-doing in these meetings.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

I can't see why Brexit is a significant concern to Canadians. 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

p17..the interest is more about the implementation of the labour manifesto and the path to that is very crooked. 

Parliament may not have time to approve Brexit deal, MPs warn

A committee of MPs has warned that parliament may not have enough time to approve the UK’s exit from the European Union by March 2019 as Theresa May heads to Brussels for the latest round of the slow-moving divorce talks.

quote:

There is no expectation of significant progress in the latest talks but a growing number of officials now believe it will not be possible to reach a final agreement in October either. That would delay a deal until the December summit, making the parliamentary timetable even tighter.

The Brexit committee concluded that the Commons would need at least five days to debate a government motion seeking approval for the final deal and consider amendments put down by MPs – and rejected statements made by ministers that if the MPs and peers were not to sign off on their proposed exit deal that the UK would automatically crash out of the EU on a ‘no deal’ scenario in March 2019.

Instead the MPs said that ministers should “provide for a second parliamentary vote” in such circumstances to allow for the government to negotiate further with the 27 other countries in the European Union – and, if necessary, seek a “limited extension” to Article 50 to allow negotiations to conclude.

If there was no prospect of reaching a satisfactory agreement and ministers were determined on leaving the UK on a “no deal” scenario, the committee said the Commons should also have the chance to “express its view clearly and advise the government on how to proceed”. The report added: “The country would expect more than MPs simply ‘took note’ of the situation.”

NDPP

Jeremy Corbyn on Brexit: Out of the Single Market, the Custom's Union and no second referendum  (and vid)

https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/1012438361976594432

josh

Sounds good.

NDPP

Jeremy Corbyn Criticised by Labor Group for Demanding Palestinians' Right To Return'

https://twitter.com/EL4JC/status/1012629104666046464

"Jeremy Corbyn has been criticised by Labour Friends of Israel after he called for Palestinians to have a 'right to return' to their former homeland..."

Clearly it is high time for a political lawn-mowing of 'friends of Israel' everywhere. 

NDPP

"Jeremy Corbyn, you have an opportunity. Be in the stadium for the England vs Colombia game. That supports your people and shows that Britain has a face of sanity."

https://twitter.com/johnpilger/status/1013704403767840768

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