Corbyn’s Labour and the path to power

956 posts / 0 new
Last post
montgomery

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

montgomery wrote:

In the US now with Trump in power, the Left isn't definable. Trump, who is righter than Adolph, now owns the left, while the Dems own the philosophy of the right.

Sean babbles on about how the sides divide tradionally when in fact that's no longer the case. 

And now the really big concern we all should have is that Scheer can grab the hearts and minds of the leftists. And we see no warnings from the people on this board to avoid letting that happen. On the contrary, in order to be as anti-Liberal as possible, they laud praise on the Conservatives. 

So can Scheer hijack the left in the same way Trump hijacked the ordinary people in his country, by feeding the people the same kind of lies? 

Be cognizant of the fact that the NDP's support is just as likely to choose the 'right as they are to choose the more left Liberals. 

Monty1 you are acting like an asshole even if you are wearing new underwear.

I've failed to explain it to you and that could be my fault? But it also could be partly your fault because you're still pouting. Shine please! Does your mother know what you're doing with that computer in her basement? 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Jeremy Corbyn lays out Labour’s five Brexit demands in letter to Theresa May

The Labour leader says that while the Prime Minister is focused on negotiating changes to the backstop, she needs to enshrine five changes to the Political Declaration in law to secure Labour support for a sensible deal that can bring the country together.

Labour’s five demands for the Brexit deal are:

  • A permanent and comprehensive UK-wide customs union. This would include alignment with the union customs code, a common external tariff and an agreement on commercial policy that includes a UK say on future EU trade deals. We believe that a customs union is necessary to deliver the frictionless trade that our businesses, workers and consumers need, and is the only viable way to ensure there is no hard border on the island of Ireland.
  • Close alignment with the Single Market. This should be underpinned by shared institutions and obligations, with clear arrangements for dispute resolution.
  • Dynamic alignment on rights and protections so that UK standards keep pace with evolving standards across Europe as a minimum, allowing the UK to lead the way.
  • Clear commitments on participation in EU agencies and funding programmes, including in areas such as the environment, education, and industrial regulation.
  • Unambiguous agreements on the detail of future security arrangements, including access to the European Arrest Warrant and vital shared databases.

Aristotleded24

nicky wrote:
Do any of you actually think that Corbyn's handling of the Brexit issue has been anything short of disasterous?

Has Corbyn's handling of Brexit been disasterous? Absolutely. It's a radioactive hot potato that has been thrown at the British political establishment. Nobody expected leave to win, nobody knows what "Brexit" means, and everybody is fumbling around.

nicky wrote:
And, although it is hard to think what it has to do with this issue, I do think, Aristotle, that Tom Mulcair would have been a fine Prime Minister, certainly our most left-wing PM ever.

You vehemently supported Mulcair as leader, even though he turned out to be a total flop. After he presided over the greatest loss of seats in the party's history, where any other party would have dumped him on the spot, you insisted that he should have stayed on. That speaks volumes about your judgement and how off base you generally are about politics.

nicky

Corbyn’s Brexit position will cause bigger losses for Labour than even Iraq war:

Tonight ITV News is carrying a report that a private poll that has been seen by Momentum suggests that LAB seen to be backing Brexit would be worse for the party than the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

It is reported that it was commissioned by the Transport Salaried Staffs’ Association (TSSA) trade union. An analysis based on the polling has been shown to Momentum and the conclusions are worrying for red team. The ITV News report notes:

“A briefing paper based on the polling has been shared with leading members of the shadow cabinet, including John McDonnell, to increase pressure on Labour’s leader Corbyn to come out in favour of a referendum.

The most powerful conclusion of the research is: “There can be no disguising the sense of disappointment and disillusionment with Labour if it fails to oppose Brexit and there is every indication that it will be far more damaging to the party’s electoral fortunes than the Iraq war.

“Labour would especially lose the support of people below the age of 35, which could make this issue comparable to to impact the tuition fees and involvement in coalition had on Lib Dem support.”

The polling itself was carried out by YouGov.

That the party should be coming under pressure from the trade union movement is no real surprise and this could have been expected earlier.

It is hard to see the circumstances, though, where Corbyn changes his mind. 

 

josh

The party won the election after the Iraq invasion.  But that’s neither here nor there.  This is just the same doom and gloom you posted prior to the last election.  Afterwhich, you basically vanished.  And YouGov is the most Tory friendly pollster out there.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

The only reason you want Corbyn to take up the unwinnable fight for a second referendum-the fact that the Tories oppose a second ref guarantees that it can't happen-is that you want the party to lose three million votes at the next general election, an election in which Corbyn is certain to still be Labour's leader, because you care more about putting the Blairites, none of whom can ever be popular with the electorate, back in control of the party.  There is no genuinely Labour case for trying to get a referendum that the Tories can never be forced to hold.

nicky
josh

Isn't that what you already posted.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

epaulo13 wrote:

Jeremy Corbyn lays out Labour’s five Brexit demands in letter to Theresa May

The Labour leader says that while the Prime Minister is focused on negotiating changes to the backstop, she needs to enshrine five changes to the Political Declaration in law to secure Labour support for a sensible deal that can bring the country together.

Labour’s five demands for the Brexit deal are:

  • A permanent and comprehensive UK-wide customs union. This would include alignment with the union customs code, a common external tariff and an agreement on commercial policy that includes a UK say on future EU trade deals. We believe that a customs union is necessary to deliver the frictionless trade that our businesses, workers and consumers need, and is the only viable way to ensure there is no hard border on the island of Ireland.
  • Close alignment with the Single Market. This should be underpinned by shared institutions and obligations, with clear arrangements for dispute resolution.
  • Dynamic alignment on rights and protections so that UK standards keep pace with evolving standards across Europe as a minimum, allowing the UK to lead the way.
  • Clear commitments on participation in EU agencies and funding programmes, including in areas such as the environment, education, and industrial regulation.
  • Unambiguous agreements on the detail of future security arrangements, including access to the European Arrest Warrant and vital shared databases.

5/5 If May accepts even 50% of Corbyn's demands, the Tory party splits and it's out of office forever. That's why this is a good move. But if it fails, Labour has to revert to No Confidence votes and fighting for a Second Referendum, and it has to whip its MPs for these aims.

Aristotleded24

This coming from a right-wing poster who when Mulcair was challenged insulted actual left-wingers and wanted Mulcair to stay on long after any serious party would have dumped him, and also takes the word of major media outlets even though they have been shown to be lying about everything they discuss. I think that says everything about you nicky, and why your judgements and opinion are utterly not grouded in anything resembling reality.

nicky

Aristotle, I don't think I have been personal with you. If you think I have insulted you please point to the appropriate post.

Yet you and also Josh and Ken have leveled many ad hominem attacks on me when I simply make factual posts, usually pointing out polling results that you don't like because they tend to reflect uncomfortable truths about Corbyn.

I understand that I am a right wing troll whose views can only be treated with contempt. I do get that from your constant invective.

But when I site reputable pollsters and commentators perhaps you can answer the points they make rather than simply insulting me or Tom Mulcair (who would have been much better for the NDP than its current leadership)

Cheers.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

You know, nicky, I don't mind you posting these items. What bothers me somewhat is that you do so gleefully, one might even say triumphantly. In my opinion, what little chance there is for a decent human existence in a couple of generations (or maybe even sooner) depends on profound changes to the political and economic systems that currently run the world.

I don't have any hope at all that right, centre right or centre left politicians will make the decisions necessary to save civilization. I believe that if you and those who think like you defeat the Corbyns and the AOCs of the world, our children and grandchildren will be doomed to death or at best a short, brutish life. It will be by far the greatest die off in human history. That's why I find your posts a giant pain in the ass.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:

Aristotle, I don't think I have been personal with you. If you think I have insulted you please point to the appropriate post.

Yet you and also Josh and Ken have leveled many ad hominem attacks on me when I simply make factual posts, usually pointing out polling results that you don't like because they tend to reflect uncomfortable truths about Corbyn.

I understand that I am a right wing troll whose views can only be treated with contempt. I do get that from your constant invective.

But when I site reputable pollsters and commentators perhaps you can answer the points they make rather than simply insulting me or Tom Mulcair (who would have been much better for the NDP than its current leadership)

Cheers.

Thanks for admitting you're a right-wing troll.  You pretty much proved that when you kept attacking Corbyn even after his showing in the 2017 election proved that every horrible prediction you'd made about how the man would do in an election was totally wrong-in hindsight, you'd have to concede that Labour would probably have won under Corbyn's leadership in that election had it not been for twelve Labour MPs making a coordinated series of announcements, at the beginning of the campaign, that they were standing down as candidates, and if there hadn't been continued demands, throughout the election campaign, for Corbyn to stand down as leader when everyone knew it isn't even possible to change party leaders DURING an election campaign.  The massive gains Labour made in vote share, gains it could not have made under any "moderate" leader, discredited your entire narrative, yet you refuse to stop.

Again, it is pointless for Labour to lead with a push for a second referendum because the Tories and the DUP will always oppose a second referendum.  This refusal makes it impossible to force a second referendum through.  

Why should Labour put the hopeless fight for a second referendum on a fight to keep the UK in an institution whose current economic requirements are reactionary, an institution in which it is impossible to change those policies, when the damage done by those policies far outweighs the tiny, almost trivial bits of small-l liberalism that still remain within the EU, and when pushing for a second referendum is certain to split the party?

Why should a hopeless fight on this issue be more important than the crucial fight to get the Tories out of power?

Why should Corbyn do what you want and massively split the party, when no good comes of his doing that?

Those are questions you have an obligation to engage?

 

nicky

Since you say I have an obligation to respond….

I called myself a right wing troll, only by echoing some of the bizarre attacks on me  by people who obviously have no sense of irony.

I have worked for decades in Canada for progressive causes. If any of you actually knew who I am or what I have worked at you would never call me right-wing.

I do want Britain to have a Labour government. I have family and friends there and, like them, believe their future will be a better one with a Labour  government and with Britain in Europe.

I do not believe that either of these things can happen if Jeremy Corbyn continues to lead the Labour party. The polls and most reputable commentators are of a similar view.

May’s government is dismal. It has botched Brexit and so many other things. It ought to be headed for oblivion but instead is now headed for re-election, either with May or a replacement leader. In this climate Labour ought to be 20 % ahead. Instead the last polls put it 7% behind and falling.

The single overriding reason for this is Corbyn. The Labour Party would win convincingly with virtually any other leader, whether from its centre, right or left wings.

The main reason for Corbyn’s toxicity with the public is his incoherent and hypocritical stand(s) on Brexit. He basically sat out the referendum. He refused to back a second plebiscite even though 60% of the public wants one as well as 79% of Labour Party members.

Recent polling, the links to which I have provided, shows that Labour will lose massively if its betrays its membership and supports Brexit, as Corbyn stubbornly does.

The point has been made that Labour may loses some its Leave voters but the overwhelming evidence is that it is more vulnerable on its other flank if it spurns Europe..

The young voters who supposedly are Corbyn fans are even more fans of Europe. They see Corbyn as betraying their future and are on the verge of abandoning Labour in drove.

I know I have not made the slightest impact on the blinkered Corbynistas among you but, as they say in the classics, “There are none so blind as will not see.”

josh

You’re spewing the same nonsense you spewed last time about how Labour should be 20% ahead.  That’s until the election results camein and you disappeared.

And being fans of Europe and fans of the EU are not the same thing.  

And the latest poll, from Ipsos Mori, has the race tied.

nicky

Here are the polls in the last week [from Wikipedia]:

Mori: C 38 L 38

You Guv: C 41 L 34

Opinium: C 41 L34

Survation: C 38 L 39

People's Vote: C 40 L 36

 

 

NDPP

Labour Leave

https://twitter.com/labourleave/status/1093481875279106048

"Donald Tusk not only unfairly attacked Brexiteers yesterday, but reminded us the EU is anti-democratic..."

nicky

 

Comments

 

 

 Jeremy Corbyn signs a letter he has written to Theresa May laying out Labour’s five Brexit demands. Photograph: Stefan Rousseau/PA

Jeremy Corbyn’s letter to Theresa May last night offering to slightly soften his Brexit stance risks stirring a backlash from Labour supporters. A new poll makes it devastatingly clear that if Labour is perceived as having enabled Brexit, it will lose 45 seats – including five of its seven precious Scottish seats.

From today's Guardian

Labour denies second vote is next step if PM rejects Corbyn's Brexit letter

 

 

Labour’s true heartlands are remain: four-fifths of Labour voters think May’s deal will hurt the British economy and 91% of them don’t trust the government to deliver a good Brexit. Remainers will desert and punish the party in droves unless it opposes Brexit. This outlook comes from a large poll of more than 5,000 people – it was commissioned by TSSA, the transport union, which has always backed Corbyn. It was meant to be private advice to him, but it leaked. “There can be no disguising the sense of disappointment and disillusionment with Labour if it fails to oppose Brexit, and there is every indication that it will be far more damaging to the party’s electoral fortunes than the Iraq war,” the polling document reports.

“Labour would especially lose the support of people below the age of 35, which could make this issue comparable to the impact the tuition fees and involvement in the coalition had on Lib Dem support.”

The letter Corbyn wrote to May seems to give ground, appearing to offer compromises where Labour might support her, dropping some of its reddest lines. In truth it doesn’t, because May couldn’t agree to most of it – especially the permanent customs union and close alignment to the single market, its agencies and regulators. Some Labour people claim he’s playing a clever game, craftily appealing to the party’s leave voters by appearing not to oppose Brexit, but actually making it impossible for Labour to support any Brexit deal May can put on the table.

 

Brexit is a Tory beast that Labour needs to skewer. The TSSA poll shows that any flirtation with Brexit will cripple Labour and alienate the young who Corbyn drew in. That’s confirmed by a new ComRes poll for Lead Not Leave, finding 72% of voters aged between 18 and 34 back staying in a reformed EU, compared with just 38% of people aged 55 and over. The young are even more strongly against a no-deal Brexit.

Meanwhile, the TSSA polling concludes: “If there is an election in 2019, Labour will get a lower share of the vote in every seat in the country if it has a pro-Brexit policy than if it has an anti-Brexit position.”

Aristotleded24

nicky wrote:
Aristotle, I don't think I have been personal with you. If you think I have insulted you please point to the appropriate post.

It's just a general tone I get from reading your posts. Its as if anyone who disagrees with you is somewhat lesser or isn't on your side or whose views should be dismissed out of hand. Throwing out words like "Corbynista" or talking about "Corbynistas within the NDP" and that sense of derision is a prime example. Looking at the public comments so far, I am not alone in that assessment.

nicky wrote:
But when I site reputable pollsters and commentators perhaps you can answer the points they make rather than simply insulting me or Tom Mulcair (who would have been much better for the NDP than its current leadership)

So the polls that say Corbyn is unpopular for mishandling Brexit (a point I actually conceded upthread) are trustworhty, however the polls taken since the last election, the vast majority of which have Labour tied with the Conservatives, are not to be taken seriously?

nicky wrote:
I called myself a right wing troll, only by echoing some of the bizarre attacks on me  by people who obviously have no sense of irony.

I have worked for decades in Canada for progressive causes. If any of you actually knew who I am or what I have worked at you would never call me right-wing.

You're right, we don't know who you are. That's the nature of the Internet, and the vast majority of us do not know who each other are. All we can go by are the postings on various threads.

nicky

Aristotle, you are incorrect in maintaining that Labour is tied with the Cons in the polls. As my post #317 shows Labour has started to lag significantly.

Even if Labour were “tied” they should be miles ahead given the incompetence of the May government.

 

the main reason for Labour’s lack of progress is Corbyn , whom the public disapproves by consistent margins of 60% to 20%.

 

as for my use of the term “Corbynistas” anyone who reads the British press and political sites will know that this is a term in wide use, even by Corbyn own diminishing band of supporters. I do not use it pejoratively against you.

nicky

As for Corbyn’s approval, the polls taken in 2019 indicate an average of 58% disapproval vs 22% approval. He is underwater even among Labour supporters.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership_approval_opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

josh

Labour is tied in the polls.  You choose your poll.  I'll choose Survation, which nailed the last election when everyone else had Labour down by a significant margin.  They have Labour up 1.  But we get it, we get it.  You hate Corbyn.  No need to beat it to death.

nicky

Josh, what does Survation show about Corbyn’s approval rating?

pretty dismal isn’t it?

nicky

Josh, you were touting the Moir poll in your post #316.

do you still think Moir is authoritative?

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/02/08/corbyns-ipsos-mori-ratings-take-a-huge-tumble-with-72-saying-they-are-dissatisfied-with-him/

These looks being the worst LAB leader ratings on record

The latest Ipsos-MORI voting intention figure have LAB and CON level pegging which puts the pollsters out of line with Opinium and YouGov which both have CON leads of seven points. 

But there’s a shock for the LAB leader in the firm’s satisfaction ratings which have been recorded in every published survey since the 1970s. A total of 72% of those in the sample said they were dissatisfied with Corbyn against just 17% who said said they were satisfied.

I’ve scanned through every poll from the firm since 1977 and cannot find anything that is as bad as this for a LAB leader.

Historically these ratings have been a better pointer to general election outcomes than the voting intention numbers.

josh

Image result for beating a dead horse gif

nicky

I agree w you Josh

Corbyn is a dead horse, at least according to 72% of the British electorate

Aristotleded24

nicky wrote:
I do want Britain to have a Labour government. I have family and friends there and, like them, believe their future will be a better one with a Labour  government and with Britain in Europe.

I think this is a possible chance to break the deadlock and maybe have a conversation that is a bit less acrimonious. Without naming names nicky, what do you think are the challenges that Britain faces? What public policy items do you feel a Labour government should implement (regardless of whether it's Corbyn or someone else) that would address these challenges?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

(Self-delete.  Misinterpreted the headline of the article.  Should have read more closely. My bad.)

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

One thing I think you'd have to concede, nicky:  Given how badly each of the other Labour leadership candidates were beaten in the 2015 and 2017 votes, it simply isn't possible that any of them could be doing better in the polls at this point-especially Owen Smith in 2017, who was so staggeringly unpopular that he had to ask to speak at Corbyn rallies since almost nobody showed up at his.

And as I've asked before, since the Tories are never going to change their position on a second referendum, and since the DUP will back them on this no matter what, what is the point in fighting for a second referendum when it isn't possible to cause a second referendum while the Tories are still in power? Why not, instead, focus on working all-out to make sure the Tories are forced out of office and beaten at the next election?

Also, if you believe that even any other left-wing MP would do better than Corybn, would you agree that the party needs to get rid of the requirement that leadership candidates get a bloc of nominations from MPs should be removed, given that the current crop of Labour MPs will still use that requirement to block any serious left-wing candidate from the leadership race?  And would you concede that it would discredit whoever won the leadership if ONLY the sort of candidates the anti-Corbyn MPs were willing to allow on the ballot ended up there, given that nobody they would allow would be anti-austerity, pro-worker, or antiwar?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Final question: Why would even be worth electing a Labour government if Labour was led by the sort of leader the anti-Corbyn MPs would want?  Is there any reason to think a non-left wing Labour leader would do anything that was in any meaningful way different than what May is doing right now, given that most of the anti-Corbynites likely would prefer to have the Callaghan policies on spending and foreign policy back?

josh

Ken Burch wrote:

An good analysis by a Guardian analyst who has been implacably anti-Corbyn: 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/07/labour-punished-vo...

The Guardian has been anti-Corbyn from day 1.  Those who want to worship at the altar of the EU, for whatever reason, and believe it is the only issue worth voting on, can always go with the Lib Dems.  

josh

Ken Burch wrote:

Final question: Why would even be worth electing a Labour government if Labour was led by the sort of leader the anti-Corbyn MPs would want?  Is there any reason to think a non-left wing Labour leader would do anything that was in any meaningful way different than what May is doing right now, given that most of the anti-Corbynites likely would prefer to have the Callaghan policies on spending and foreign policy back?

I’m sure the anti-Corbynites would make the party 100% pro-remain.  

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

josh wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

An good analysis by a Guardian analyst who has been implacably anti-Corbyn: 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/07/labour-punished-vo...

The Guardian has been anti-Corbyn from day 1.  Those who want to worship at the altar of the EU, for whatever reason, and believe it is the only issue worth voting on, can always go with the Lib Dems.  

I just realized I had the idea of that article all wrong.  I'm going to delete that link now.  

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I will ask again...since everyone knows the Tories can't be made to allow a second referendum, what is the POINT of pushing Labour to fight for a second referendum?  If it can't happen, what purpose is served in fighting for it?    

cco

The point, like the last few of these campaigns, is to convince people that Corbyn Must Go™. First it was "He'll lead us to the worst defeat in Labour history!", then it was "His caucus has no confidence in him!", then "He's an anti-Semite!", then "He's a Russian stooge!". Now that none of those took, the Red Tories (and, I suspect, MI5) are back to stamping their feet and declaring, with no proof, that Tony Blair would be wiping the floor with May right now. The Thatcherites are scared shitless that Corbyn will win and legitimize left-wing ideas. They need him pushed out before the next election, especially since it looks like the Tories are going to wear all the problems with Brexit.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

cco wrote:
The point, like the last few of these campaigns, is to convince people that Corbyn Must Go™. First it was "He'll lead us to the worst defeat in Labour history!", then it was "His caucus has no confidence in him!", then "He's an anti-Semite!", then "He's a Russian stooge!". Now that none of those took, the Red Tories (and, I suspect, MI5) are back to stamping their feet and declaring, with no proof, that Tony Blair would be wiping the floor with May right now. The Thatcherites are scared shitless that Corbyn will win and legitimize left-wing ideas. They need him pushed out before the next election, especially since it looks like the Tories are going to wear all the problems with Brexit.

A very concise and accurate description of the situation. Well said.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

cco

..yup!

NDPP
NDPP

Corbyn Leadership Bows Before Blairite's Anti-Semitism Witch-Hunt

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/02/09/labo-f09.html

"Labour's Blairite right-wing has doubled down on its smear campaign against party leader Jeremy Corbyn and his supporters citing bogus claims of widespread anti-Semitism on 'the left."

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Soundings in partnership with The World Transformed presents

Transforming Political Education Sat 16 Feb

We need radical solutions to the crises of the present and the challenges of the future: precarious work, climate change, the housing crisis, the gender pay gap, #metoo, the hostile environment, racist authoritarianism.

So how can the contemporary left learn from activism and education projects to create culturally inclusive, participatory and democratic forms of left politics for the 21st century?

This discussion – sparked by short introductions then opened up for digital and face-to-face participation – will draw on approaches, traditions and ideas from the radical histories of political education, as well as exploring what can be learnt from current forms of feminist, anti-racist and anti-austerity activism.

We aim to identify the types of engaged, reflective, collective and activist-led political education needed to support social transformation today.

With award-winning arts educator Farzana Khan (Platform and Voices that Shake), tenants’ rights and anti-poverty activists Ellen Moran and Taya Williams (ACORN), senior research fellow Sharon Clancy (Adult Education 100) , writer and campaigner Roshi Naidoo (Soundings editorial collective) and Sasha Josette (TWT  and Momentum).

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Labour would end free market in higher education, says Rayner

A Labour government would end the “failed free-market experiment in higher education”, taking a tougher line on vice-chancellors’ pay and improving academic diversity, the shadow education secretary is set to announce.

Angela Rayner will outline a series of major policy steps that would allow regulators to intervene in how universities in England are run, including how they recruit and reward staff.

Speaking to the University and College Union (UCU) conference on Saturday, Rayner will say: “The Tories’ obsession with free-market dogma has gone too far. Education is a public good and should be treated as such. Our universities are there for all of us.”

Under Labour the Office for Students (OfS) would see its role heavily revised, repealing the legislation that forces it to promote competition and replacing it with a new requirement for cooperation between institutions....

josh

The Gang of Four rides again.  7 MPs leave party to form independent group.  Refuse to stand in by elections.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/18/chuka-umunna-and-other-mps-set-to-quit-labour-party

nicky

Corbyn is getting what he wants. Turning Labour into an unelectable little sect.

these seven MPs reflect the views of 80% of Labour members on Brexit. By continuing to ignore that 80% Corbyn is turning into Labour’s worst nightmare.

josh

Back-stabbing MPs, just like in 1981.  Interesting how the left stayed in the party through all the Blair years, including the Iraq War, but when the right doesn’t like the way things are going, they take their ball and go home.  

nicky

“Back-stabbing” is an interesting word for you to use Josh.

would you use it to describe what Corbyn has done to the 80% of Labour members who oppose Brexit and whom Corbyn reassured by pretending to promote a second referendum?

josh

I don’t know.  Did he bail on the party, smearing it on the way out?

And that’s not the main reason they left.  They saw their dreams of a return to a neo-liberal economic, neo-con foreign policy, party vanishing.

nicky

The Labour Party leadership assured the party at its last conference that the party would promote a “people’s vote.”

corbyn has done everything he can to betray tha5 pledge.

Bexit is now opposed by about 58% of the public @nd the vast majority of the Labour Party. With Corbyn in charge those people have no voice in the Labour Party.

Small wonder so many former Labour supporters are looking elsewhere

cco

Ahh yes, today it's all about Brexit. Voting against May's deal isn't enough. If Corbyn really meant it, he'd speak the magic incantation that'd make May allow a second referendum. It's totally Corbyn's fault, not the fault of people who actually voted for Brexit. Until tomorrow, when the Labour "crisis" will be something else.

NDPP

Breaking: Luciana Berger, Chris Leslie, Mike Gapes, Angela Smith, Chuka Umunna resign from Labour Party. All are listed 'supporters' of Israeli embassy front group 'Labour Friends of Israel'."

https://twitter.com/AsaWinstanley/status/1097439786103726080

 

Urgent: Galloway on the Dance of the Seven Veils

https://youtu.be/X7iMzzqfCAA

"These people are the sharp end of the most anti-democratic maneuver ever...to stab the British people's decision to leave the EU, in the back. Who would be the beneficiaries of that? I'll leave you to work it out..."

cco

And the centrist independents are off to a running start: https://twitter.com/huwlemmey/status/1097499946624925697

Pages