Corbyn’s Labour and the path to power

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Aristotleded24
NDPP

"So, the Independent Group (who no one voted for) wants to stay in the EU (which Britain voted to leave) so that we can carry on being dictated to by the EU Commission (which no one elected).

https://twitter.com/Socialismilucra/status/1099227646393749505

 

The Brussels Business - Who Runs the EU? (Doco)

https://youtu.be/xMuUEd6w54E

"The second biggest lobbying industry in the world. Only Washington is bigger..."

josh

Yeah, that Opinium poll shows that all the turncoat party has done is to hurt Labour and the Lib Dems and boost UKIP, which is now running third.

JKR

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Who could have predicted Elizabeth May would run such a horrible election campaign?

I make the same mistake in my head from time to time.  I think you meant Theresa.

Whoops! “Elizabeth” sounds so British though. 

JKR

Ken Burch wrote:

nicky wrote:

Nothing could be gained by replacing Corbyn by a bland centrist who couldn't be capable of caring about poverty and the exploitation of worker.

Isn’t another option replacing Corbyn with another bona fide social democrat? The Conservatives are gong to replace May with a more popular leader so shouldn’t Labour try to get ahead of the curve? It’ll be a disaster in the UK if we the Conservatives win another election.

josh

Who says the leader who replaces May will be more popular.  And there seems to be no movement among Labour members to replace Corbyn.  He has been elected by them twice the last three plus years.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Labour government will give you right to flexible working from your first day

Employees should be able to work flexibly from the day they start their jobs, Labour demands today.

The party will unveil plans to shake-up employment rights if it wins power, giving workers the option from day one.

Shadow Women and Equalities Secretary Dawn Butler will say: “Women do the vast majority of unpaid care, but this must not be a barrier to women in work - that’s why I’m announcing Labour’s plans to introduce rights to flexible working from day one of employment.

“This change to the law is essential to closing the gender pay gap and dismantling the structural barriers that hold women back from promotion and progression.

“It may also result in more men taking on caring responsibilities themselves, finally lightening the load that women bear.

“Under Labour’s plans, no woman will be shut out of the workplace because they’re a mum or they care for a parent or a disabled loved one, or both.

“We need an economy that works for women, not against us.”

Women are more likely to request flexible working, according to Office of National Statistics.

Figures show about 46% of women are “sandwich carers’, who look after young children and elderly or disabled relatives, and feel unable to work or do as many hours as they want.....

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

6h6 hours ago

It was an honour to speak at Labour's Women’s Conference. It’s a testament to how strong our movement has become that 1,200 women members are here - representing the hundreds of thousands of women in our party.

JKR

josh wrote:

Who says the leader who replaces May will be more popular.

I find it hard to imagine the Conservatives electing someone less popular than May currently is. I think her and Cameron will go down as the worst PM’s of at least the last 100 years.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Aside from Brexit stuff, what horrible things has she done to tie for worst in a century?

JKR

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Aside from Brexit stuff, what horrible things has she done to tie for worst in a century?

I think her mishandling of Brexit is enough. Calling an unnecessary, risky, and unwanted election was especially inept.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Well, perhaps in a year or two, with the benefit of hindsight, someone will say "here's what she could have and should have done to please everybody".

I'm still curious -- and I'm not asking you to supply me with answers to this -- whether she's done anything of note that's not Brexit-related, whether good, bad or indifferent.  Authorized a road?  Renamed a bridge?  Dedicated a memorial?

Aristotleded24

JKR wrote:
josh wrote:

Who says the leader who replaces May will be more popular.

I find it hard to imagine the Conservatives electing someone less popular than May currently is. I think her and Cameron will go down as the worst PM’s of at least the last 100 years.

What have they done that is worse than Blair invading Iraq?

JKR

Aristotleded24 wrote:

JKR wrote:
josh wrote:

Who says the leader who replaces May will be more popular.

I find it hard to imagine the Conservatives electing someone less popular than May currently is. I think her and Cameron will go down as the worst PM’s of at least the last 100 years.

What have they done that is worse than Blair invading Iraq?

They put party before country. In their actions regarding Brexit, Cameron and May have chosen to put the short term partisan political interests of the Conservative Party ahead of the interests of the UK. I think it should be remembered that both of them supported the Remain side during the referendum  (as did Corbyn.) On the other hand, even though Blair made a terrible mistake participating in the invasion of Iraq, I think he felt he was acting primarily in the interests of the UK and I think he actually felt he was putting his nation ahead of his party. At the time most politicians from all the major political parties supported Blair’s position as well as most UK’ers. This is how Blair was able to win the 2005 election. Like it or not, Blair handily won elections.

Aristotleded24

JKR wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

JKR wrote:
josh wrote:

Who says the leader who replaces May will be more popular.

I find it hard to imagine the Conservatives electing someone less popular than May currently is. I think her and Cameron will go down as the worst PM’s of at least the last 100 years.

What have they done that is worse than Blair invading Iraq?

They put party before country. In their actions regarding Brexit, Cameron and May have chosen to put the short term partisan political interests of the Conservative Party ahead of the interests of the UK. I think it should be remembered that both of them supported the Remain side during the referendum  (as did Corbyn.) On the other hand, even though Blair made a terrible mistake participating in the invasion of Iraq, I think he felt he was acting primarily in the interests of the UK and I think he actually felt he was putting his nation ahead of his party. At the time most politicians from all the major political parties supported Blair’s position as well as most UK’ers. This is how Blair was able to win the 2005 election. Like it or not, Blair handily won elections.

How many people died as a direct result of Brexit? It doesn't matter what the politicians are thinking, what matters is their policies.

nicky
JKR

Aristotleded24 wrote:

It doesn't matter what the politicians are thinking, what matters is their policies.

I think the current UK politicians will be judged for a very long time on the outcome of their Brexit policies. If it goes ahead, I think Brexit will be the biggest political, economic, and social event for the UK since WW2.

nicky

 

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/02/24/it-appears-blair-slayer-tom-watson-has-his-sights-on-jeremy-corbyn/

Corbynites should be concerned about Watson is doing this, and so publicly, anyone with an understanding of history knows Watson played a crucial role in the early departure of the great Satan Tony Blair. If Watson can help topple the three times general election winning leader he’ll be able to take down the general election loser that is Corbyn.

not just an evil Blairite plot apparently.

NDPP

nicky wrote:

Labour’s deputy leader decries anti-semetism in the party:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/24/tom-watson-corbyn-needs-to-understand-labour-must-change-antisemitism-crisis

 

NDPP wrote:

George Galloway on Labour A/S 'Black Op'

https://youtu.be/tFo5-hmBxmI

 

"There is no sound evidence to back the claims of Labour's antisemitism' - Prof of Statistics, Harvey Goldstein."

https://twitter.com/skwawkbox/status/1099115853759565824

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..may has once again delayed a brexit vote on her deal. and the accusations of antisemitism against labour are increasing. the right is running scared.

josh

I love how the dossier claims Labour members sent tweets or messages without establishing how they know these are actually Labour members.  Or people posing as Labour members.  Or far right-wingers who don’t even bother doing that.  But we know about Labour’s history with trumped up dossiers.  

josh

nicky wrote:

 

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/02/24/it-appears-blair-slayer-tom-watson-has-his-sights-on-jeremy-corbyn/

Corbynites should be concerned about Watson is doing this, and so publicly, anyone with an understanding of history knows Watson played a crucial role in the early departure of the great Satan Tony Blair. If Watson can help topple the three times general election winning leader he’ll be able to take down the general election loser that is Corbyn.

not just an evil Blairite plot apparently.

”We must destroy this village in order to save it.”

josh

We don’t know where we stand, but stand we will.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MikeSegalov/status/1099620748744904704

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Dead Center

Nearly four years ago, the United Kingdom went to the polls. At the time, living in south London, I weighed up the options on my ballot paper. A Labour Party selling mugs with the slogan, “Controls on Immigration,” not traditionally a stirring socialist phrase; a leader who’d campaigned in front of an absurd eight-foot high concrete slab that ended up functioning as his own political tombstone; and a local candidate so center-right I ended up spoiling my ballot. The country seemingly felt similarly: what should have been an easy win for Labour instead became a victory for the Conservatives, and caused such turmoil in Labour that Jeremy Corbyn secured a surprise and thumping victory in the race for the party leadership.

The local candidate I deemed so undesirable as to deny him my vote this week left the party and created a new outfit that he insisted wasn’t a party: Chuka Umunna joined with seven Labour MPs and three Conservatives to forge a centrist party no one had asked for. The Liberal Democrats already exist, after all — and poll abysmally. Asked what they stood for, the new grouping championed austerity and the Conservatives’ previous public service cuts, oppose both nationalization (one of the most popular of Labour’s policies) and increases in marginal tax rates on the wealthiest, and oppose Brexit. In an interview with the BBC, former Conservative MP Anna Soubry said the group was in favor of “sensible policies for a stable economy,” a phrase utterly devoid of meaning: no party is openly advocating “absolute lunacy for a blazing garbage fire of an economy”

But it speaks to the patronizing philosophical core of centrism: that conservatism, liberalism and democratic socialism are all mere distractions, and that a Frankenstein’s monster of a party combining the worst of all their aspects is what the public are crying out for. What have “The Independent Group” created? A party squarely of the establishment, almost designed by committee to appeal exclusively to career politicians and newspaper columnists......

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Petitions

UK Government and Parliament

Automatic by-election if an MP resigns membership of their political party

If a Member of Parliament decides to leave the party they were elected under, then they should be required by law to call a by-election and stand as an independent or for another party if they wish to remain a sitting MP

So far - 22,820 signatures

Government will respond

Government responds to all petitions that get more than 10,000 signatures

Waiting for 1 day for a government response

At 100,000 signatures...

At 100,000 signatures, this petition will be considered for debate in Parliament

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

10h10 hours ago

Over 2,000 people have joined Labour already this month and thousands have been out campaigning for a fairer society.

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

epaulo13 wrote:

10h10 hours ago

Over 2,000 people have joined Labour already this month and thousands have been out campaigning for a fairer society.

 

So much for the "Labour is a sinking ship" canard.

Aristotleded24

epaulo13 wrote:
Dead Center

Nearly four years ago, the United Kingdom went to the polls. At the time, living in south London, I weighed up the options on my ballot paper. A Labour Party selling mugs with the slogan, “Controls on Immigration,” not traditionally a stirring socialist phrase; a leader who’d campaigned in front of an absurd eight-foot high concrete slab that ended up functioning as his own political tombstone; and a local candidate so center-right I ended up spoiling my ballot. The country seemingly felt similarly: what should have been an easy win for Labour instead became a victory for the Conservatives, and caused such turmoil in Labour that Jeremy Corbyn secured a surprise and thumping victory in the race for the party leadership.

The local candidate I deemed so undesirable as to deny him my vote this week left the party and created a new outfit that he insisted wasn’t a party: Chuka Umunna joined with seven Labour MPs and three Conservatives to forge a centrist party no one had asked for. The Liberal Democrats already exist, after all — and poll abysmally. Asked what they stood for, the new grouping championed austerity and the Conservatives’ previous public service cuts, oppose both nationalization (one of the most popular of Labour’s policies) and increases in marginal tax rates on the wealthiest, and oppose Brexit. In an interview with the BBC, former Conservative MP Anna Soubry said the group was in favor of “sensible policies for a stable economy,” a phrase utterly devoid of meaning: no party is openly advocating “absolute lunacy for a blazing garbage fire of an economy”

But it speaks to the patronizing philosophical core of centrism: that conservatism, liberalism and democratic socialism are all mere distractions, and that a Frankenstein’s monster of a party combining the worst of all their aspects is what the public are crying out for. What have “The Independent Group” created? A party squarely of the establishment, almost designed by committee to appeal exclusively to career politicians and newspaper columnists......

This was hilarious! I really laguhed reading it.

nicky

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/25/labour-aids-tory-b...

 Instead, Labour should get behind a second referendum. Leave voters would not punish Labour at the next election anywhere near as badly as its remain base, according to polling from the TSSA transport workers’ union that has been presented to John McDonnell and others in the past three weeks. Just 36% of Labour leave voters rank Brexit in the top three topics they care about. For Labour remainers, that shoots up to 60%. The TSSA briefing notes: “If [Labour] fails to oppose Brexit … there is every indication that it will be far more damaging to the party’s electoral fortunes than the Iraq war.” Its Scottish MPs would face wipeout, while in London there would be heavy losses.

nicky
Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/25/labour-aids-tory-b...

 Instead, Labour should get behind a second referendum. Leave voters would not punish Labour at the next election anywhere near as badly as its remain base, according to polling from the TSSA transport workers’ union that has been presented to John McDonnell and others in the past three weeks. Just 36% of Labour leave voters rank Brexit in the top three topics they care about. For Labour remainers, that shoots up to 60%. The TSSA briefing notes: “If [Labour] fails to oppose Brexit … there is every indication that it will be far more damaging to the party’s electoral fortunes than the Iraq war.” Its Scottish MPs would face wipeout, while in London there would be heavy losses.

There can't be any point with leading with the fight for a second referendum while the Tories are still in power.  As has been repeatedly shown to you, the Tories can't ever be forced to call a second referendum, and while the Tories are in power, the only choices are hard Brexit or soft Brexit.   Labour can't gain anything by fighting a losing battle to stop Brexit entirely, it's enough that they've kept the referendum as an option-all Corbyn was obligated to do to abide by party policy was to keep the referendum as an option.  What matters most is fighting to end austerity, something you know can't be done within EU rules.

Let it go about the unwinnable fight to try and force May to call a referendum.  You know she can never be made to call one.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

And the votes against May's proposals ARE an act of opposition to Brexit-the only act any Labour leader could engage in.

nicky

If Corbyn were to whip his MPs there wd clearly b3 enough support for a second referendum given the position of the minor parties and the number of likely Conservative defectors.

The big problem is thatCorbyn is a not so secret Brexitier and will do what he can to frustrate the strong majority opinion in the Labour Party in favour of a new vote.

nicky

Further it is not a matter of forcing May to call a referendum. 

The ruling o& the speaker Bercow have put Parliament itself in the driver’s seat on Brexit. A majority of MPs can legislate a new referendumg

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

The final say on Brexit

Public must be given choice on whether Theresa May’s version of Brexit beats the deal we already have with Europe

In many ways I’m with the vast swathes of people who wish we could stop talking about Brexit, not least because it means the so many other issues plaguing our country are being left to fester untreated.

But with little more than 800 hours until the UK is due to leave the European Union there is still no deal in prospect.

The stakes couldn’t be higher – for jobs, industries, rights and even for the United Kingdom as we know it.

Back in 2016 GMB campaigned for a ‘reform and remain’ position– not happy with the status quo but on balance better off in - one we termed an ‘angry remain’.

But we accepted the outcome of the referendum and our view was to make the best of it - to grasp any opportunities it brought with both hands and minimise the negatives.

GMB never agreed with those who demanded an instant replay of the referendum hoping of simply overturning the result – because, however we had voted, we wanted to make it work.

But two and a half years later, what is unfolding is an epic shambles that could very soon spell disaster for our nation.

Every day that goes by businesses and public services are spending a fortune trying to prepare for a no deal scenario which would be an unprecedented self-inflicted disaster for our country.

Whenever I speak with members the word that keeps cropping up is ‘uncertainty’.....

josh

The people voted to leave; they should leave.  All this sturm und drang is what's creating the uncertainty.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..there is not just one way to leave and that is what is causing debate to break out. different ways to leave represent different political perspectives. some very damaging to a working class perspective.

josh

The people voted to leave.  Europe's been an issue in British politics for decades.  They knew what they were voting for, and against.  Leave means leave.  Just as remain means remain.

NDPP

UK Labour To Support A Second Brexit Referendum - Jeremy Corbyn

https://on.rt.com/9p2e

BREAKING: "UK Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has announced that his party will either table or support an amendment backing a second Brexit referendum this week. Details to follow."

josh

That's just sad. 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

josh wrote:

The people voted to leave.  Europe's been an issue in British politics for decades.  They knew what they were voting for, and against.  Leave means leave.  Just as remain means remain.

..nope. it's just not that simple. right now, today, this minute the options on the table is a testament that it is not that simple.

josh

The options on the table are testament to those who do not want to accept the result of the vote.

NDPP

"This is a disastrous error of judgement. Taken to appease people who actively work for his political destruction."

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1100090140851097601

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Brexit: Labour will back amendment for second referendum, says Corbyn – Politics live

Opposition says it will back or put forward amendment for public vote if its alternative to Theresa May’s Brexit plan is voted down by MPs

Here’s the full text of the amendment Corbyn intends to table on Tuesday:

That this house instructs ministers

(a) to negotiate with the EU for changes to the political declaration to secure:

i. A permanent and comprehensive customs union with the EU;

ii. Close alignment with the single market underpinned by shared institutions and obligations;

iii. Dynamic alignment on rights and protections;

iv. Commitments on participation in EU agencies and funding programmes, including in areas such as the environment, education, and industrial regulation; and

v. Unambiguous agreement on the detail of future security arrangements, including access to the European Arrest Warrant and vital shared databases;

(b) To introduce primary legislation to give statutory effect to this negotiating mandate

josh

Yeah, that certainly sounds like leave.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

josh wrote:

The options on the table are testament to those who do not want to accept the result of the vote.

..nope. it's not that simple.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..labour is trying to avoid a no deal brexit.

josh

I know what they're trying to do, but I think it's wrong.  And it's not going to help them politically. Although they may be in a no win situation.  This is simply an effort to overturn the results of the vote. 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..all along it's been talked about that the referendum didn't mean an anything goes leave. i believe it is the best political decision to put it to a public vote once again. if there is another vote and if the polls are correct that people don't want to leave anymore..labour will be seen in a positive light for making this move..overall.

josh

all along it's been talked about that the referendum didn't mean an anything goes leave.

Yes, almost entirely by people who voted to remain.

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