The demonization of China

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NDPP

"Yellow Peril as an idea is the cement that holds western civilization together..."

https://twitter.com/Liuyongfu2/status/1116816838267

Unionist

NDPP wrote:

"Yellow Peril as an idea is the cement that holds western civilization together..."

https://twitter.com/Liuyongfu2/status/1116816838267

I fixed your link, NDPP. You're welcome!

https://twitter.com/Liuyongfu2/status/1116816838267215873

 

NDPP

Thnx!

swallow swallow's picture

Paul Evans has been shilling for Asian dictatorships, including Suharto’s in Indonesia, for years. He is as establishment as they come. 

But sure, give his opinion more weight than the union representing university teachers, and call that union “sinophobic” for good measure. 

swallow swallow's picture

WWWTT wrote:

swallow wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

Thanks for the link Unionist! The slogan on Ontario lisense plates "Your's to discover" is going to be changed to "Open for business" apparently (probably worth it's own thread title).

That was the rumour, but it’s not accurate. 

Really hey? I guess Queens park is a rumor to hey?

https://globalnews.ca/news/5157537/ontario-budget-licence-plate-yours-to-grow/

Yeah, the slogan (as Magoo said) will be “a place to grow,” not as claimed “open for business.” 

Unionist

swallow wrote:

Paul Evans has been shilling for Asian dictatorships, including Suharto’s in Indonesia, for years. He is as establishment as they come. 

Good to know. Is he right about the Confucius Institute, or wrong? Do you have an opinion about it, as opposed to just an opinion about Paul Evans?

Quote:

But sure, give his opinion more weight than the union representing university teachers, and call that union “sinophobic” for good measure. 

I haven't the foggiest clue what you're talking about. If you want to refer to the opinion of the union, would you mind very much taking a moment to provide me with a reference? And if I called that union "sinophobic", it must have been in a moment of delirious sleep-talking. I have no clue who that union is, never mind how much or little they fear China.

 

voice of the damned

Unionist wrote:

Is he right about the Confucius Institute, or wrong? Do you have an opinion about it, as opposed to just an opinion about Paul Evans?

At least in the stuff quoted in the post, Evans doesn't really provide any hard details about why we should think the Confucius Institutes are a good thing. He just states his opinion that they're run by good people, and are basically benign. Presumably we're to take his authority as an Asia-focused academic on that.

Which I may very well be prepared to do, since he obviously knows more about the Confucius Institutes than I do. However, if, as Swallow states, he had previously gone to bat for Suharto, that's gonna call into question his criteria for judging "good people". Because I do know a little bit about Suharto, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't fit my definition of "a good person".

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I think the Chinese government funding programs about its culture and history is as beign as our oil industry providing free educational material to public classrooms. It should also get the same amount of condemnation in our MSM as the oil and gas industry's propaganda. 

I prefer my Chinese history to have high production values like these two great series. I always look to see how accurate the history is in historical drama's and these follow the recorded facts very well.

https://www.netflix.com/title/80160597

https://www.netflix.com/title/80160391

 

NDPP

But CIJA's bs on 'a land without a people for a people without a land' or the Ukrainian Canadian Congress' propaganda on Holodomor is freely allowed into our school system with official blessings.

Yellow Peril...

WWWTT

Swallow wrote

Yeah, the slogan (as Magoo said) will be “a place to grow,” not as claimed “open for business.” 

Sorry for the thread drift but I’ll clarify. Personal vehicle plates will be “place to grow”.  Commercial vehicle plates will be “open for business” It’s in the link I provided. 

Probably a subject worthy it’s own thread, so I’m not discussing it here any longer. 

Unionist

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I think the Chinese government funding programs about its culture and history is as beign as our oil industry providing free educational material to public classrooms. It should also get the same amount of condemnation in our MSM as the oil and gas industry's propaganda. 

That's a truly gratuitous comment. Confucius Institute is primarily about teaching Mandarin and Chinese culture. The "critiques", as I understand them, is that they don't draw students' attention to how totalitarian the Chinese regime is.

Should we condemn the Canadian government for funding English and French instruction in our school system - without mentioning every 15 minutes that Canada is an imperialist dictatorship of the big bourgeoisie which suppresses workers, women, Indigenous people, etc.? Maybe we should. But we're not shutting down our school system till that's fixed.

That's a more appropriate comparison than your "oil industry" thought experiment.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Actually the oil industry funds math and science programs and doesn't mention the climate. Yes I agree the Chinese program seems less problematic but both are teaching useful things while ignoring other things.

Industry involvement in public education is not new. As early as the 1940s, the industry's largest and most powerful lobby group targeted K through 12 schools as a key element of its fledgling marketing strategy. By the 1960s, the American Petroleum Institute was looking to shake its reputation as a "monopoly which reaped excessive profits" and set out to cultivate a network of "thought leaders" that included educators, journalists, politicians and even clergy, according to an organizational history copyrighted by API in 1990.

...

"I was a little bit concerned the first time because I thought I was going to be influencing my kids one way or the other," Anderson says.

But she says the program is "a non-biased curriculum – it's informational."

Also, once Anderson and other teachers complete the energy education training, the board pays for field trips — as long as the destination is focused on oil.

"The kids get so excited to shout all the information they know that they've learned from all the activities," she says.

The program offers another bonus: A heavy plastic tub stuffed with $1,200 worth of supplies and lab equipment. That's prized material in one of the most cash-strapped school systems in the country.

https://www.npr.org/2017/07/11/535653913/heres-what-the-oil-industry-is-...

 

swallow swallow's picture

I’ve linked a critique above. They relate to attempted interference in class content, attempted control of class content by an agency of the Chinese government, and restrictions on the free speech and religious practices of employees. This is why the Canadian Association of University Teachers recommends that Confucius Instiutes not be welcomed into Canadian universities, and why several universities have refused them or removed them. 

No other foreign government attempts to establish permanent organizations within Canadian educational institutions, so far as I know. This is the reason Confucius institutes are singled out for criticism. 

CJIA attempts to infiltrate educational institutions are despicable and should be both condemned and resisted, too. 

Some links

https://bulletin-archives.caut.ca/bulletin/articles/2013/03/mcmaster-university-severs-ties-with-confucius-institute

https://bulletin-archives.caut.ca/bulletin/articles/2014/01/canadian-campuses-urged-to-end-ties-with-confucius-institutes

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/07/24/debate-renews-over-confucius-institutes

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/toronto-school-board-votes-to-sever-ties-to-confucius-institute/article21376636/

 

WWWTT

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I think the Chinese government funding programs about its culture and history is as beign as our oil industry providing free educational material to public classrooms. It should also get the same amount of condemnation in our MSM as the oil and gas industry's propaganda. 

I prefer my Chinese history to have high production values like these two great series. I always look to see how accurate the history is in historical drama's and these follow the recorded facts very well.

https://www.netflix.com/title/80160597

https://www.netflix.com/title/80160391

 

For some reason these historical movies/programs/tv series are very popular in China. Including Taiwa and Hong Kong. 

I believe Mao wouldn’t be s big fan.  I am not a fan of these film programs centred around privileged people, played by attractive actresses and actors. 

They’re more like soap operas I find. I only watch them for Chinese language listening skill enhancement. 

voice of the damned

I believe Mao wouldn’t be s big fan.

No, probably not. Mind you, I don't think he'd be a big fan of the Confucius Institutes, either. At least not under that name.

http://tinyurl.com/ydxofgbc

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

swallow wrote:

No other foreign government attempts to establish permanent organizations within Canadian educational institutions, so far as I know. This is the reason Confucius institutes are singled out for criticism.

But the article you link to does not say it is a government agency, only that it gets its funding from the government. I presume you do know that NGO's are used as Trojan horses by the West in many areas of the world in education as well as other areas.

Confucius Institutes worldwide are run by the Chinese National Office for Teaching Chinese as a Foreign Language, a non-government agency affiliated with the Chinese Ministry of Education. The institute at McMaster — like the hundreds around the world that operate out of established post-secondary and secondary institutions — is staffed by instructors hired in China.

Canada provides monetary support for Ukrainian educational opportunities that seem far more political. We are arrogant enough to believe we should export our corrupt political system and its NATO imperialism. Here is a link to the Canada Ukraine Parliamentary Program, which appears to be a non-government agency affliated with the House of Commons.

A cycle of three Conferences to develop a Model Ukraine or Model for Ukraine as envisioned by the Alumni of the CUPP Program who have completed an internship in the Canadian Parliament of from one year to 3 months, have earned a graduate Degree at a Western University and who may currently be working in the West.

The First Conference will take place in Washington DC and will focus on the individual, identity, rights and responsibilities in a Model Ukraine.

The Second Conference will take place in Ottawa, Ontario on October, 2010 and will focus on the State, its electoral system, its integration into the Euro-Atlantic Community and its relations with the EU, Russia and the USA. The Third Conference will take place in Kyiv in November 2011 and will focus on combining the deliberations of the first two conferences to create a Model.

Our government does direct educational training in many NATO outposts as well. Here is the Ukrainian example.

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/news/2018/01/canadi...

Our universities in the last 20 years have developed an incestuous relationship with corporate boardrooms and that to me is far more worrisome than the Chinese using this institute for propagating propaganda. We have spent two decades allowing our boardrooms to fund institutes that have churned out thousands of brainwashed MBA students all indoctrinated in the Chicago School of Economics cult. Arguably the most destructive evil ideology ever let lose on the planet.

 

 

Unionist

The "China experts" and academics are stepping up their attacks, now coupled with demands that Canada show China who's in charge. This one is by a "Senior Fellow, Institute of Science, Society & Policy, University of Ottawa; Senior Fellow, China Institute, University of Alberta; and Distinguished Fellow, Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada." I'm impressed - how about you?

Canada must take stronger action against China to free our 'detainees'

Quote:

We call them “detainees,” and that term sounds fairly innocuous: they’re being “detained” and can’t return to their homes or jobs for an interim period. But that does not begin to capture the hell that they are now living through. They were both kidnapped suddenly, less than a day apart – Michael Kovrig off the street, and Michael Spavor at the airport. This was just days after Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou was arrested in Vancouver on a U.S. extradition warrant.

[emphasis added]

Got that? China kidnaps. Canada arrests, and then only on someone else's request. Because we're proverbially sorry. But it's time now for Canada to "man up":

Quote:

Former ambassador to China Guy Saint-Jacques has recommended that Canada “take the white gloves off” and pursue stronger measures to have our Canadians released, including: expelling Chinese athletes who are training in Canada for the 2022 Winter Olympics; restricting the movements of Chinese officials in Canada; mobilizing stronger support from the U.S. as well as our Asian allies; and making a formal protest to the UN Security Council on China’s treatment of our Canadians, including our diplomat currently on leave.

He is absolutely right. China will only listen to Canada when bigger factors are at stake. The lives of our fellow Canadians now hang in the balance.

I guess the pre-emptive bombing of mid-size Chinese cities would be part of the next escalation?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

And to think this is the same country that is just waiting to pay us above market rates for tar sands gunk, go figure.

Sean in Ottawa

I think the funding of Chinese language and even much about culture by the Chinese government can be a good thing. I am very, very wary about governments funding history without safeguards to make it balanced.

I went to a University of Ottawa talk called "The Myth of the Chinese Dragon" some years ago. I was expecting something interesting regarding Chinese Dragons -- (dragon is very different in Chinese culture than European). I was very enthusiastic about a chance to hear more about Chinese culture and mythology.

Instead it was the ambassador giving a stream of government propaganda, without anything cultural at all. He did this with his political minder in the room taking notes to keep him "on track," (I was with a Chinese friend who was a visiting professor from Nanjing and very knowledgable about how this works).

The audience was almost all University students who were genuinely interested in Chinese culture and not interested in politics. They were stunned into silence.

I think the Chinese government is often incompetent in these matters. The political propaganda was counter-productive and left people more hostile to the Chinese government than they were before. A real focus on Chinese culture woudl ahve had the opposite effect.

I think there are a great deal of negative impressions about China, Chinese culture and even the quality based on issues with the "made in China" brand. (BTW China always did produce amazing quality in many areas, but due to the brand problems would be pressed by North americans to produce cheaper and cheaper for export here.)

I have long believed that China would could do more for its relationship with other countries focusing on language and culture rather than preaching politics in the clumsy way it often does. Warm feelings on language and culture would leave people more open to the political statemnts of the country than direct promotion anyway.

Where politically neutral, I am happy when any country wants to share in other countries its language and culture. Here in Ottawa there are coutnries that have done this extremely well: Japan, Korea, France, Italy among them. In the last decade, it seems that the Chinese government has been learning and is now taking opportunities to share language and culture without loading them with political propaganda. They are present in the international parts of festivals more than they were before and not trying to deliver more than a bit of goodwill and Chinese culture.

I think cultural/human connections between countries helps world peace and embrace any cultural sharing of countries devoid of propaganda and power plays. I do not get offended if the purpose is economic and political provide the content of the exchange is not.

ETA: By safeguards in the opening of this post, I do not mean provided by other countries -- but provided by professional educators free of political intervention with a focus on the culture rather than a political message the governments are trying to send. Yes, I understand, not easy to do.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Sean why do you hate the idea of government driven policy so much? I liked your story about the lecture but what made you think an Ambassador for a foreign government was going to be talking about mythical creatures?

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/04/201242144540509844.html

https://gomedici.com/rise-of-chinese-dragon-an-inside-look-at-factors-af...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesagencycouncil/2018/11/26/stirring-dra...

http://www.capewineacademy.co.za/dissertations/Rise-of-the-Dragon-The-Ch...

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Sean why do you hate the idea of government driven policy so much? I liked your story about the lecture but what made you think an Ambassador for a foreign government was going to be talking about mythical creatures?

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/04/201242144540509844.html

https://gomedici.com/rise-of-chinese-dragon-an-inside-look-at-factors-af...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesagencycouncil/2018/11/26/stirring-dra...

http://www.capewineacademy.co.za/dissertations/Rise-of-the-Dragon-The-Ch...

How the Hell could I know why I hate government driven policy when you made that up? Why don't you tell me? Since it is completely untrue, I could not produce as interesting an answer. Besides you like telling people what they are thinking and what motivations you have decided they have.

The Chinese could host discussions about culture rather than politics. They said nothing about politics in the announcement and advertised only history and culture. The person who suggested I go was himself connected to the Chinese government and he thought it was cultural as well as just about everyone there including another person that came with me. So while you criticize me for not being as wise as we all know you would have been -- every other person there was in the same position. When it came time for questions -- all were trying to get him to move to culture and history away from politics. His speaking went down badly becuase nobody there expected the topic. There may have been people interested in politics, but nobody there wanted to engage -- perhaps becuase the few who may have had an inerest were with people who were not interested. It was misadvertised. There were a number of Chinese sudents there openly upset as well. Many young Chinese people have an absolute allergy to discussing politics, One said in Chinese to my friend that they never talked politics in front of authorities ever. Another referred to him as 同志 which means "Comrade" and carries a double meaning -- one perjorative -- in the young generation.

ETA: I looked at your links and was delighted that you have a search engine that can help you find "Dragon" in a title. Congrats. How about you find some links that have the title I said it was: "the myth of the Chinese dragon" and nothing else?

WWWTT

同志 pronouced tong (rising tone or second tone) zhi (falling tone or fourth tone). Means comrade, other use is as a slang term for homosexual.  

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