The demonization of China

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Timebandit Timebandit's picture

You’re conflating two things I’ve said. Yes, I could attempt to prove my point, but doing so would mean talking openly about others who might suffer consequences, and a message board post may have only a small risk, but it’s still not worth it. 

WWWTT’s posts are comparable to the stuff 50 cent army posts. If he isn’t, he’s certainly sympathetic. Either way, he’s promoting his own imperialism here. 

ETA: And in doing so he’s smearing people trying to protect their civil liberties by calling them xenophobes. I don’t know why that’s admirable, but you do you, I guess. 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Timebandit wrote:

WWWTT’s posts are comparable to the stuff 50 cent army posts. If he isn’t, he’s certainly sympathetic. Either way, he’s promoting his own imperialism here. 

That is your opinion of him but frankly I find Magoo to be just as predictable as the VOA in his attacks on leftist leaders and yes WWWTT is the polar opposite of him and they are both as unbiased as each other. This is a discussion board so stop trying to limit the discussion to voices that agree with your perspective.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Yes, that is my opinion.

Im not trying to limit voices, I’m trying to limit outright lies. A million people protesting extradition legislation are only saying that because they’re secretly protesting mainlanders? 

Magoo’s a provocateur, no question. But like him or not, he’s not posting things that are demonstrably false.

ETA: No one on this board is immune to being challenged. None of us are. I get that you don’t like this, but when WWWTT makes an outrageous claim, it’s going to get challenged. 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Timebandit wrote:

ETA: No one on this board is immune to being challenged. None of us are. I get that you don’t like this, but when WWWTT makes an outrageous claim, it’s going to get challenged. 

I agree totally and it is why I posted when you defamed him instead of debating him.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

I wouldn’t go that far. I also pointed out much earlier in this thread that it wasn’t a serious accusation - although his reaction and posting since hasn’t done anything to dispel the idea. 

Pondering

Canada's behavior here and in the world at large has been horrible. I accept the term genocidal in relation to indigenous peoples of Canada.  Our mining corporations could be called evil if you are a religious sort and we are responsible for not stopping them. We are guilty for wearing clothing made in unsafe sweatshops sometimes by children. We have no business interfering in Venezuela and impoverishing the country while claiming nobility. As a people you could argue we are more guilty than the Chinese because we have so much freedom to object and not enough of us do.  No claim of moral superiority is being made. 

You cannot argue that that the Chinese government is less repressive than the Canadian government because it makes no sense. All you have to do is compare the treatment of the executives arrested in each country. 

I watched a tiny bit of Peter Mansbridge and The Future of War. From the bit I saw he understands the rise of China and that the US perceives it as a threat and is fighting for supremacy.

NDPP

'The Chinese Are Coming': US Attempts to Turn the Phillippines Against Its Beijing Ally

https://on.rt.com/9w62

"...The potential for a conflict in this part of the world appears to increase on a daily basis. Just last week, a Russian warship and a US warship came extremely close to colliding with each other with both sides disputing which part of the sea, the incident took place in (whether the Phillippine Sea as the US suggested or the southeast of the East China Sea as Russia claimed, I think you should be starting to get the point by now).

While the Phillippines will want to maintain a balance between the US and China which does not involve putting its territory at the heart of open conflict, another point worth noting is how the Phillippines has been pursuing stronger ties with an unlikely Washington ally, who [has very enthusiastically pursued back, and] undoubtedly has separate motives of its own; Israel. According to The Diplomat, Israel and the Phillippines seem set to move forward with joint counter-terrorism efforts, all the while the Phillippines places large orders for a range of military equipment from Israeli firms.  The Phillippines is also happy to learn directly from the Israelis as to effective counter-terrorism efforts by receiving direct training.

At the same time, the US and the Phillippines have also also reportedly collaborated to lauch a three-year program to fight home-grown [and  jihadi proxies imported by guess who] isis-inspired extremism in the Phillippines. Because at the end of the day, the US will always have the threat of terrorism to keep the Phillippines in line. In this context China may just not be able to compete with America's wide-ranging ability to bomb 'Islamic militants' right across the globe."

NDPP

John Pilger: The Coming War on China

https://youtu.be/QXFProJC5FY

As anyone with eyes open can observe the cheering squad that always  helps warm us up for coming imperial ventures  has been called and answered the imperial dogwhistle under various guises and humanitarian subterfuges and the barking, snarling and snapping has already begun...

Martin N.

NDPP wrote:

John Pilger: The Coming War on China

https://youtu.be/QXFProJC5FY

As anyone with eyes open can observe the cheering squad that always  helps warm us up for coming imperial ventures  has been called and answered the imperial dogwhistle under various guises and humanitarian subterfuges and the barking, snarling and snapping has already begun...

Is it difficult to hear the "Imperial dog whistle" whilst hiding under one's bed?

 

"More swords are required to maintain the peace than to wage war."

NDPP, do you really believe that if one lays supine, the Chinese inclination is toward tummy rubs?

NDPP

Hong Kong police are as brutal as the Spanish pigs were suppressing the Catalans. Peacefully  protesting Palestinians get shot every Friday by Israeli sharpshooters. Gilets Jaunes also get brutalized by police weekly. Why so little concern or criticism here of those cases too? See answer below...

"I don't think Western politicians and media who support the protests in Hong Kong really want what's best for Hong Kong. [North] Americans in particular want Hong Kong to become a new tool to contain Beijing..."

https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1138850069875109888

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

How would Hong Kong have the ability to “contain” mainland China? What would that even look like?

Pondering

NDPP wrote:

Hong Kong police are as brutal as the Spanish pigs were suppressing the Catalans. Peacefully  protesting Palestinians get shot every Friday by Israeli sharpshooters. Gilets Jaunes also get brutalized by police weekly. Why so little concern or criticism here of those cases too? See answer below...

"I don't think Western politicians and media who support the protests in Hong Kong really want what's best for Hong Kong. [North] Americans in particular want Hong Kong to become a new tool to contain Beijing..."

https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1138850069875109888

Well duh. The US and China are at war they just aren't using bombs. China's rise has been incredible. That is what Trudeau was aluding to when he joked about admiring the country's government. Because China is so centrally controlled they can make radical changes quickly as they did with the one child policy. That rise has been so dramatic that they are beginning to rival the US. It would be idiotic to think the US who has the biggest military and economy on Earth would just sit back and welcome China as an equal on the world stage. 

Stopping Huawei is about dominating technologically and economically. The US is not going to let Huawei get all the 5G network business. Who are their rivals anyway? I never hear them mentioned. 

The 5 eyes are the UK, Canada, Australia, the US, and NZ. The US will pressure all 5 eye countries not to use Huawei or risk being ejected from the 5 eyes based on security concerns. 

China doesn't quite "get it" yet it seems. With both China and the US strong-arming Canada the US wins easily. No contest. There has been some suggestion that Trump's remarks prove the request is political but that argument has to be presented in court and I am sure it will be. I can't imagine her lawyers not using it. 

Does Trudeau even have the power to order the courts to accept or refuse the request for extradiction? 

cco

As discussed in one of the earlier Meng threads, extradition is a political decision, no matter how much politicians like to pretend it's a hands-off process they can't touch. If a court rules the request valid, the decision will land on David Lametti's desk. He remembers how he got his job, so I'm guessing a whisper in his ear from the PMO will not go ignored.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

If this proposed timeline for the judicial proceedings is accurate, it may or may not be Lametti who decides.

NorthReport

In the real world Trump will probably tell Trudeau how it will all shake down at their upcoming meeting prior to the G20

NDPP

China Issues Warning After Canada Raises Concerns Over Planned Extradition Law

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/china-freeland-hong-kong-1.5173486

"China is once again issuing a warning to Canada after Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland put out a statement outlining concerns over planned extradition law. 'Hong Kong affairs are purely China's internal affairs. No other country, organization or individual has the right to interfere. Recently some people from the Canadian government made irresponsible and erroneous comments on the Hong Kong government's amendment to the ordinance and other Hong Kong affairs. We deplore and firmly oppose this..."

 

US Using Hong Kong Protests To Inflame Public Opinion Against China (and vid)

https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/06/13/598405/US-using-Hong-Kong-prot...

"In reality, the demonstrations are not so much against the extradition bill as they are a reactionary backlash  against Chinese sovereignty over Hong Kong. Although the bill is still being debated, it has been seized upon by enemies of the Chinese government to push their pro-Western agenda. The proposed extradition treaty is just the latest excuse to do so..."

WWWTT

Timebandit wrote:

How would Hong Kong have the ability to “contain” mainland China? What would that even look like?

Not sure if containing is the right term the US wants. Spreading violent chaos would b more like it. 

NDPP

Hong Kong Wealth Gap At Its Widest in Decades

https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1140281232250605569

"HKers are mad because there is (rightly) the feeling that Hong Kong is a shitty place to live...The political and economic elite of HK in material character and ideology has not changed for half a century. Whether under authority of London or Beijing..."

NDPP

American Govt, NGOs Fuel and Fund Hong Kong Anti-Extradition Protests

https://www.mintpressnews.com/hong-kong-protests/259202

"The protest's messaging and the groups associated with it, however, raise a number of questions about just how organic the movement is. Some of the groups involved receive significant funding from the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), a CIA soft-power cutout that has played a significant role in innumerable US regime-change operations..."

NDPP

US Role in Hong Kong Protests

https://solidaritycenter.ourpowerbase.net/civicrm/mailing/view?reset=1&i...

"US imperialism  has a long history of 'color revolutions'..."

swallow swallow's picture

Giving the US government credit for protests in Hong Kong is anti-Chinese racism. 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

swallow wrote:

Giving the US government credit for protests in Hong Kong is anti-Chinese racism. 

That is true but strangely enough it is at the same time naive to believe that 5Eyes and its NGO fronts are not operating in Hong Kong.

WWWTT

Go back 30 years, almost to the day. Here’s a link

https://www.globalresearch.ca/what-really-happened-in-tiananmen-square-25-years-ago/5385528

 

The demonization of China was highly effective. Nearly all sectors of U.S. society, including most of the “left,” accepted the imperialist presentation of what happened.

And this

In the case of the “pro-democracy” protests in China in 1989 the U.S. government was attempting to create a civil war. The Voice of America increased its Chinese language broadcasts to 11 hours each day and targeted the broadcast “directly to about 2,000 satellite dishes in China operated mostly by the Peoples Liberation Army.”viii

The Voice of America broadcasts to PLA units were filled with reports that some PLA units were firing on others and different units were loyal to the protestors and others with the government.

The Voice of America and U.S. media outlets tried to create confusion and panic among government supporters. Just prior to June 4 they reported that China’s Prime Minister Li Peng had been shot and that Deng Xiaoping was near death.

Most in the U.S. government and in the media expected the Chinese government to be toppled by pro-Western political forces as was starting to happening with the overthrow of socialist governments throughout Eastern and Central Europe at the time (1988-1991) following the introduction of pro-capitalist reforms by Gorbachev in the Soviet Union in 1991.

WWWTT
WWWTT

I’ve brought the 天安门 false flag to light here before, but I think it only fueled the babble pro imperialist cheerleaders to insist that I am a pro communist Chinese hack. Which is odd because I do consider myself to be a Maoist? 

Im thinking that those making the accusations somehow feel I should bear some kind of shame for being a 毛派? 

WWWTT

Here’s another link

https://www.greanvillepost.com/2019/06/05/notes-for-30th-anniversary-of-tiananmen-incident/

 

“The demonization of China was highly effective. Nearly all sectors of U.S. society, including most of the “left,” accepted the imperialist presentation of what happened.

WWWTT

Right on schedule. What better way to celebrate ending colonization than to have a good old fashioned armed violent protest!

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/06/hong-kong-protesters-block-roads-...

WWWTT

NDPP wrote:

Hong Kong Wealth Gap At Its Widest in Decades

https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1140281232250605569

"HKers are mad because there is (rightly) the feeling that Hong Kong is a shitty place to live...The political and economic elite of HK in material character and ideology has not changed for half a century. Whether under authority of London or Beijing..."

This Mark guy doesn't really "get it" hey?

Hong Kong is under a 1 country 2 systems policy as far as Beijing is concerned. Reafirmed by Xi Jin Ping a couple years ago.

But I guess the capitalist default systematic rape system promoted by Britain fucked things up so bad in Hong Kong, it's somehow still has to be Beijings and the Communist Party of China's fault for not doing anything?

I'll asume Mark never heard of the 1 country 2 system policy and what that means?

 

WWWTT
WWWTT

Here's a possibly related link. Good read for those interested.

https://freebeacon.com/national-security/fbi-arrests-ex-cia-officer-livi...

WWWTT

Here's another good link on the color revolution going on in Hong Kong

https://zokkokunihonsayonara.blogspot.com/2017/10/joshua-wongs-novitiate...

WWWTT

Here's another site I found. A little more raunchy so beware clicking on it!

http://tomatobubble.com/id703.html

NDPP

Hong Kong Protesters Cause Havoc in Parliament

https://youtu.be/xwl1FdL-yUQ

 

Protesters Leave Path of Destruction in Hong Kong

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2019/07/02/hong-kong-protests-legislati...

Judging by the prominently displayed ensign some protesters wish a return to British colonial rule. Safe bet many more don't. This thing smells a bit fishy to me.

 

165,000 Hong Kong Residents Rally In Support of Rule of Law & Public Order

http://newsvideo.su/video/10972261

No government in the word would permit this to continue. Very reminiscent of a developing Maidan situation. Any American state department/ neocon types handing out cookies yet?

NDPP

#FreeHongKong

https://twitter.com/MMonarchies/status/1145429380451188738

"22 years of illegal, totalitarian occupation must come to an end. Hong Kong must be returned to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth. It will always belong to the Crown and Empire, not the communist invaders. Rule Britannia. Death to the communist prc scum..."

 

WATCH: "Violence has escalated and the demonstraters stormed the Legislative Council, which is forbidden in any developed society...One country, two systems is new. No one has experience with it and a little friction is inevitable. Chinese mainland society and the central government have nothing but goodwill toward Hong Kong. But a few radical and Western forces have deliberately distorted Beijing's stance."

https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1145725392281432064

NDPP

China Slams Donald Trump's 'Gross Interference' After Comment on Hong Kong Protesters Storming Legislature

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/07/02/china-slams-donald-trumps-gross-in...

"We are unwavering in our determination to oppose foreign interference..."

NDPP

Colonial 'Hypocrisy': UK Lectures China About 'Freedoms' in Hong Kong (and vid)

https://on.rt.com/9xn8

"The UK has been accused of brazen hypocrisy after raising concerns about the state of democracy and human rights in Hong Kong, a former British colony once ruled by unelected colonial governors. The glaring double-standard is clearly hypocritical..."

voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

#FreeHongKong

https://twitter.com/MMonarchies/status/1145429380451188738

"22 years of illegal, totalitarian occupation must come to an end. Hong Kong must be returned to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth. It will always belong to the Crown and Empire, not the communist invaders. Rule Britannia. Death to the communist prc scum..."

I'm not sure how seriously you should be taking that account. The guy's agenda seems to be praising anyone and everyone in history who was a monarch. He also seems to agree with you on opposing US imperialism, but I would assume only because the US had the audacity to remove George III...

First poll, lads. Please vote and retweet for a larger sample size. Is the United States, with its aggressive democratization and globalization, responsible for the vast majority of problems in the world?

 

WWWTT

NDPP wrote:

Colonial 'Hypocrisy': UK Lectures China About 'Freedoms' in Hong Kong (and vid)

https://on.rt.com/9xn8

"The UK has been accused of brazen hypocrisy after raising concerns about the state of democracy and human rights in Hong Kong, a former British colony once ruled by unelected colonial governors. The glaring double-standard is clearly hypocritical..."

I'm sure the people of Hong Kong, teary eyed and sulken over the potential justice that criminals fleeing to Hong Kong will have to face on the mainland, have now built the courage to lash out at the Hong Kong government to support criminals!

For the love of god, someone please help all those poor helpless criminals!

Lets take this moment to thank the ICM for keeping us safe in our fragile narrow view of the world, protecting us from the evil ruthless savage blood thirsty communists from enslaving us and stealing our freedom! 

NDPP

March of the Uyghurs: Again, the West Tries to Destroy China Using Religion and Terror

https://off-guardian.org/2019/07/23/march-of-the-uyghurs/

"...The frontal Western attack against China and its actions in Xingjian began in 2018. Propaganda salvos were fired long before, but the 'semi-official' beginning of the ideological combat came in August 2018, when Reuters published a story with the title 'UN Says It Has Credible Reports - China Holds Million Uighurs in Secret Camps.' It went like this..."

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Is there a reason why China should be able to deny the Uyghurs the right of self-determination, such as we recognize for Quebec, the U.K. recognizes for Scotland, and most babblers think Spain ought to recognize for Catalonia?

voice of the damned

Off Guardian wrote:

Important note: The Uyghurs have managed to create a very old and deep culture. Most of them are good, law-abiding citizens of the PRC. Also the great majority of followers of Sunni Islam are peaceful people. 

TL/DR: Hey, some of my best friends are Uyghurs! 

And then of course, the article goes on repeatedly to use the word "Uyghur" in an undifferentiated fashion, to mean very bad people...

UYGHURS ARE INCOURAGED TO MURDER, AND THEY ARE TRAINED AND HARDENED IN SYRIA

And then stuff like this... 

On top of it, most of the Indonesian Muslims are practicing the increasingly intolerant, radical Sunni Wahhabi Islam, with roots in Saudi Arabia (Wahhabism was developed with the substantial help of the British imperialists).

Okay, so I guess we've found at least one country where the left thinks it's okay to say that the majority of Muslims are intolerant radicals.

And to sum it all up... 

MARCH OF UYGHURS HAS TO BE STOPPED

Try to imagine what you'd think about an article that started off saying that it was only criticizing extremist elements in the black community, and then dived into headlines like MARCH OF BLACKS MUST BE STOPPED. 

 

 

 

 

 

NDPP

You'd have to ask China. However, the assumption that most Uyghurs seek independence from China, let alone wish to fight for Western geopolitical interests as  jihadi proxies, is unfounded. Rightly or wrongly, secessionists are generally discouraged and suppressed  by nation-states everywhere including our own settler-state  Canada.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

NDPP wrote:

You'd have to ask China. However, the assumption that most Uyghurs seek independence from China, let alone wish to fight for Western geopolitical interests as  jihadi proxies, is unfounded. Rightly or wrongly, secessionists are generally discouraged and suppressed  by nation-states everywhere including our own settler-state  Canada.

You are very selective in your sense of fairness. If the Uyghurs mostly don't want independence, why doesn't the Chinese government hold a referendum and settle the matter? Could it possibly be that they are outrageously authoritarian and anti-democratic?

Unionist

Michael Moriarity wrote:

Is there a reason why China should be able to deny the Uyghurs the right of self-determination, such as we recognize for Quebec, the U.K. recognizes for Scotland, and most babblers think Spain ought to recognize for Catalonia?

When you say "such as we recognize for Quebec", you mean "we" the NDP, right (at least in theory)? Because unless the Clarity Act has been repealed, we Canadians do not recognize any such right of self-determination for Québec. And even the NDP has never rescinded its support for the Clarity Act, so it happily sits on the fence and on both sides of it.

I provided details on that point and initiated a conversation a few years ago.

Nor do we recognize any such right for Indigenous peoples.

Nor do we recognize the sovereign rights of other countries to deal with their own affairs (Venezuela, Iraq, Afghanistan, I'm afraid the list is too long).

So I don't think we have any high perch from which to lecture China.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

I agree with your criticisms of the Clarity Act, and also of Canada's attitude to first nations here, and other nations which are the target of U.S. aggression, Unionist. As you know, my beliefs are in the area of libertarian socialism or anarcho-syndicalism. I would get rid of all authoritarian structures if I had my way. However, 2 referendums were held, and I hope would have been honoured if the Oui had won.

Pardon me for being sloppy in my language. I was mainly trying to point out that regardless of how bad our government's positions are, most babblers seem to believe in self-determination for self-identified national groups, but some of us are willing to make an exception in the case of China. To me, this seems quite hypocritical, but that is just my opinion.

NDPP

Pepe Escobar: Western Intellectuals Freak Over 'Frankenstein' China

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/07/article/western-intellectuals-freak-ov...

"So now it's time for Western intellectuals to engage in a freak-out: as it stands, Belt and Road is the new Frankenstein."

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Michael Moriarity wrote:

I agree with your criticisms of the Clarity Act, and also of Canada's attitude to first nations here, and other nations which are the target of U.S. aggression, Unionist. As you know, my beliefs are in the area of libertarian socialism or anarcho-syndicalism. I would get rid of all authoritarian structures if I had my way. However, 2 referendums were held, and I hope would have been honoured if the Oui had won.

Pardon me for being sloppy in my language. I was mainly trying to point out that regardless of how bad our government's positions are, most babblers seem to believe in self-determination for self-identified national groups, but some of us are willing to make an exception in the case of China. To me, this seems quite hypocritical, but that is just my opinion.

I agree with most of your posts however I agree with Unionist that as Canadians we have no moral authority to lecture China on its treatment of minority groups that include some self-determination advocates, particularly given the difference in milieu's that those movements operate under.

When it comes to "self-determination" movements is my opinion there are various kinds. There is the Quebec kind that had two referendums but only after a period of home grown violence that almost every Canadian abhorred. For some of us the only thing worse than the killing of a hostage was the iron-fisted response of invoking of the War Measures Act and the subsequent illegal and immoral arrests of thousands of people across the country especially among the Quebec citizens who were advocating for a peaceful separation. They also include the kind of armed standoffs in Gustafsen Lake and Oka. Our present includes a military response to peaceful protestors on their unceded territories in Elsipogtog and at the Wet’suwet’en healing center when our indigenous people dare to assert the rights that are guaranteed under the Charter. They don't need a referendum they supposedely already have the rights that they are being arrested for invoking.

In Canada progressives mostly now just march in the streets peacefully and condemn young black bloc activists when they vent their frustrations at the inadequacy of our system for realizing the essential change required at this point in history. Most Canadians didn't say anything when the state arrested anarchists before demonstrations in TO occurred and sent some of them to jail for planning to disrupt traffic.

Canadians seldom think about what it would be like at our demos if the Russians actually interfered in our country by using agent provocateurs like we see in the streets of every none NATO country with protests against their governments. If the Chinese government started giving Indigenous people or Quebec separatists or anarchists all expense paid trips to other parts of the world to be trained in insurgency techniques to overthrow the central government of Canada does anyone think that there would not be a massive crackdown in their circles of community.

In China we have a group of people who are violently advocating "self-determination" and are being armed and trained by NATO operatives with the express purpose of destabilizing the central state of China. The response is disproportionate but only if you ignore the foreign interference at the heart of the direction that the self determination movement has taken.

I wish that the Chinese were not as authoritarian but frankly if we in the NATO imperium succeed in destabilizing the "regime" in China the vast majority of the people in that country will be far worse off than they are today. After the years of colonial servitude who can blame them for wanting to ensure that they to not again become a vassal state.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

K, I don't see a huge amount of disagreement between the post of mine you quoted and your following comments. I am not an expert in the mechanics of national independence movements, but I imagine that just about all of them contain some violent elements. Also, they are generally supported by the rivals of the state they are trying to gain independence from, and they are generally willing to accept aid from these sources.

I know very little about the specific situation of the Uygurs, and there may very well be evidence that their independence movement is not self-generated, but created largely by paid provocateurs. If that is clearly the case, then I would change my opinion about whether the right of self-determination applies in this case. I also do not believe that de-stabilizing the Chinese state would be beneficial to anyone other than western imperialists, but that doesn't place their behaviour beyond criticism either.

WWWTT

Michael Moriarity wrote:

I know very little about the specific situation of the Uygurs, and there may very well be evidence that their independence movement is not self-generated, but created largely by paid provocateurs. If that is clearly the case, then I would change my opinion about whether the right of self-determination applies in this case. I also do not believe that de-stabilizing the Chinese state would be beneficial to anyone other than western imperialists, but that doesn't place their behaviour beyond criticism either.

你现在承认在中国很多民族中有太多了东西你没了解

OK good then, that's a first step. But really, what makes you think that 你可以开始批评中国共产党?

NDPP

China Appreciates 37 Foreign Ambassadors' Joint Letter Supporting Xinjiang Policy

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-07/15/c_138229200.htm

"China on Monday voiced appreciation of a letter jointly signed by 37 foreign ambassadors to the UN at Geneva supporting China's position on issues relating to Xinjian Uyghur Autonomous Region..."

Eastern Turkish Islamic Movement

https://www.un.org/securitycouncil/sanctions/1267/aq_sanctions_list/summ...

"The Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM) is an organization which has used violence to further its aim of setting up an independent so-called 'East Turkistan' within China. ETIM has maintained close ties with the Taliban, Al Qaeda and the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan..."

Any separatist aspiration towards an independent Sunni Uyghur state, whether democratic or terrorist, must contend with a population of Xianjiang that is made up also of Kazaks, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Kyrguz, Hui and Mongols as well as about 40% Han Chinese.  Any Western subversion or support for jihadi terrorism,  as was the case in Afghanistan with the Mujahideen or in Syria with CIA trained proxy fighters will only bring more misery and repression to this strategically located part of China and the peoples who live there. While watching for human rights abuses we must also beware and defend against any msm propaganda offensive which invariably accompanies and seeks to incite or legitimize  foreign-based intervention.

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