Detention of Meng Wanzhou - CFO of Huawei

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kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Caution tongue in check. The Chinese will forgive Trudeau anything because he bought a pipeline to deliver them the tar sands gunk they need so desperately.

cco

Unionist wrote:

If a Spanish company sells an American-made product in India (only) with "Made in Canada" on it - and an executive of that Spanish company is visiting Canada - do you think Canadian courts have jurisdiction to try her for fraud? Serious question, cco. I'm trying to understand your post.


To try, no, but to extradite (to India), yes. There's a distinction between "this wasn't a Canadian crime because it happened elsewhere" and "even if it had happened in Canada, it wouldn't have been a crime in Canada". Doing business with Iran isn't a crime in Canada. Lying about not doing business with Iran to get a contract is.

If it seems like I'm all over the place with my comments on this story, it's because in the contest between Donald Trump and a billionaire corporate heiress, I'm not really rooting for either. I simultaneously think that:

1. U.S. sanctions on Iran are bullshit.

2. Meng quite likely committed fraud by pretending she was complying with them.

3. The extradition is heavily political (but all extraditions, as I outlined when citing the Extradition Act, ultimately have a political element).

4. The extradition is legally proper.

5. Political influence is used on behalf of powerful corporations, especially Canadian ones.

6. That doesn't mean the right thing to do is exempt all corporations from the law in the name of fairness.

As far as whether Meng, specifically, is being treated fairly by the courts, I'd say that being Chinese when Trump's picking a fight with China weighs against her, but being astonishingly rich and an oligarch from a country Canada does a ton of business with weighs in her favour, so it's pretty much a wash. Watching the retaliatory detentions and death sentence hasn't particularly endeared me toward the Chinese government either, even though I'm completely aware that if it were within Trump's legal power, he'd undoubtedly execute some visiting Chinese businessmen to get the trade deal he wants.

NDPP

The Canadian justice system has been revealed as compromised and publicly seen to be so. As such it lacks the necessary credibility to conduct a proceeding in which 'independence' and 'impartiality' are necessary pre-conditions.  Interference occurred the moment a Chinese national was arrested by Canada for no crime committed here on the basis of a blatantly political agenda by an openly hostile Five Eyes alliance and an ill intentioned American campaign to destroy a Chinese competitor. If Meng's defence fails in Vancouver the only just and right decision would be for the AG Canada, whose ultimate decision it is, to set her free.

But since he's compromised and there to be of service to the PMO and it's obviously very much a political decision she will almost certainly be handed over to the Americans. Anyway the silver lining to it all is that we can rid ourselves of the quaint notion meant for schoolchildren  and naifs about Canada being a 'rule of law' nation. It is no such thing. It is a Dominion, of the weak by the strong where might makes right, money talks and bullshit walks.

WWWTT

@Unionist

Quote:

Her detention even in itself goes against the Charter of rights and freedoms

 

 

 

Oh, no kidding. Which section of the Charter would that be?

Easy easy question!

The Charter does not in any way aknowledge the existence of any extradition treaty. 

The problem is that there is no provision in the charter to amend. So any one seeking refuge in the charter for any glimer of salvation must spend all their money in legal fees to only be disappointed

Here's an example

15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

See anything about sexual orientation? How about class or how wealthy/poor you are? I guess the government was so fucking wise in 1982, they figured these normal people would never come knocking

In order for gay marriage to happen in Canada, brave Canadians had to spend millions in legal fees to get the interpretation changed to be included. Was the wording ever changed? Oh no no no, there isn't one politician in Canada willing to stick their neck out for any lesbian/gay/poverty striken human in Canada!

If you want to argue whats skribbled on a piece of toilet paper, knock yourself out :)

WWWTT
Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
But since he's compromised and there to be of service to the PMO and it's obviously very much a political decision she will almost certainly be handed over to the Americans.

Wouldn't it be even MORE in the service of the PMO to release her?  Get back in China's good books, get us some sweet trade deals and suchlike?

Thing is, you can't really say "the system is corrupt", but if it gives you what you want then "OK, clearly it wasn't corrupt, but only this one time". 

NDPP

You'll never hear me say the system isn't corrupt. Until and unless it becomes so. I see no signs.

Noops

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
"...Asked by a state media journalist if it was contradictory for Mr Trudeau to say he couldn't interfere in Ms Meng's case and yet his government stands accused of trying to intervene in the SNC-Lavalin case, [China] Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang said he 'really liked the question.'

If the answer to that question is "yes, it's contradictory" then the followup question would surely be "so if he inappropriately interfered in the SNC-Lavalin case, can we expect him to also inappropriately interfere in the Meng case?"

I think a much more appropriate followup question would be something along these lines ...

"Wouldn't you say Mr. Trudeau was being a hypocrite when he said he couldn't interfere in Ms Meng's case, now that his government is currently standing accused of trying to intervene in the SNC-Lavalin case?"

Noops

NDPP wrote:

But since he's compromised and there to be of service to the PMO and it's obviously very much a political decision she will almost certainly be handed over to the Americans. Anyway the silver lining to it all is that we can rid ourselves of the quaint notion meant for schoolchildren  and naifs about Canada being a 'rule of law' nation. It is no such thing. It is a Dominion, of the weak by the strong where might makes right, money talks and bullshit walks.

I couldn't have said it any better myself!

 

Noops

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
But since he's compromised and there to be of service to the PMO and it's obviously very much a political decision she will almost certainly be handed over to the Americans.

Wouldn't it be even MORE in the service of the PMO to release her?  Get back in China's good books, get us some sweet trade deals and suchlike?

No, it would have been "even MORE in the service of the PMO" had he shut his big trap from the very beginning of the Huawei affair and not say the Canadian government would not intervene in judicial matters. And had he furthermore not tried to interfere politically in the SNC-Lavalin affair.

NDPP

Canada Gives Go-Ahead For Huawei Executive's Extradition

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/03/02/huaw-m02.html

"...The decision to give the go ahead for the extradition case comes as the US is waging a global campaign to have the Chinese telecommunications giant excluded from the establishment of 5G mobile phone networks and other forms of communications on security grounds.

'Clearly, the more Huawei gear is installed in the world's telecommunications networks, the harder it is for the NSA to 'collect it all'. Huawei, in other words, hampers US efforts to spy on whomever it wants, ' [Huawei executive, Guo] Ping wrote. Guo concluded that the US global campaign had little to do with national security and 'everything to do with America's desire to suppress a rising technological competitor.'

The seizure of Meng Wanshou and the attempts to extradite her to face criminal charges are only a foretaste of the methods to be employed in the future."

NDPP

Canada Starts Process to Extradite Huawei CFO to US

https://youtu.be/SKd8EUBbh28

"This is an act of political violence. I'm sorry that Canada's going along with this. It's a last ditch effort by American imperialism. Really quite appalling and deeply embarrassing  to use human beings in a trade war in such an aggressive and pointless attack upon China." 

NDPP

Huawei Executive Meng Wanzhou Files Lawsuit Alleging Breach of Constitutional Rights

https://t.co/bC2za0kMYi

"Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou has filed a civil claim that alleges members of the RCMP and Canada Border Services Agency breached her constitutional rights when she was arrested  in Vancouver on Dec 1. The allegations in Ms Meng's lawsuite describe events that have so far been largely unknown, including how officers approached and immediately questioned her after she exited from the plane.

The 13 page civil claim, filed Friday in the Supreme Court of BC on Ms May's behalf by Vancouver law firm Gudmundseth Mickelson, lists 3 unnamed CBSA officers, RCMP constable Winston Yep and the attorney general of Canada as defendants..."

Huawei CFO Sues Canada As She Faces Extradition To US

https://youtu.be/q9ugUHEaFo8

NDPP

China Accuses Detained Canadians of Stealing Secrets

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/kovrig-spavor-state-secrets-1.5041436

China has accused detained Canadian citizen Michael Kovrig of stealing state secrets passed on to him from another detained Canadian, Michael Spavor, in what is likely to further ramp up tensions between Ottawa and Beijing. 

'Spavor was Kovrig's main contact and provided him with intelligence, stealing and spying on sensitive Chinese information and intelligence via a contact in China. China is a country with rule of law and will firmly crack down on criminal acts that severely undermine national security..."

 

NDPP

Meng Sues Canada's Govt For Arrest

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1140922.shtml

"...Gary Botting, a Vancouver extradition lawyer who is not representing Meng, told Time magazine that Canada's Border Security Agency tends to overstep. 'They took her under custody without telling her why,' Botting said in the interview. 'They disguised the real reasons why they detained her. Her rights were violated.' Li Haidong, a professor at the Chinese Foreign Affairs University's Institute of International Relations, stressed that Meng's case shows 'political interference'..."

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..more

Meng Wanzhou alleges her constitutional rights were breached by RCMP, CBSA

The defence team for Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou has filed a notice of civil claim alleging "serious violations" of her constitutional rights, accusing officers of detaining and questioning her for three hours before notifying her of her arrest.

The suit filed with the B.C. Supreme Court on Friday is against members of the Canadian Border Services Agency, the RCMP and the federal government.

It seeks damages for false imprisonment based on multiple alleged failures of government officials to comply with the rule of law upon her detention, search and interrogation at the Vancouver airport on Dec. 1.

The allegations have not been proven in court and the RCMP and the attorney general's office did not immediately respond to requests for comment. A spokesman for the CBSA said the agency does not comment on matters before the courts.

"This case concerns a deliberate and pre-meditated effort on the part of the defendant officers to obtain evidence and information from the plaintiff in a manner which they knew constituted serious violations of the plaintiff's rights," the claim says.

It alleges that RCMP officers and/or representatives from the U.S. Department of Justice arranged for Canadian border officials to delay the immediate execution of the arrest warrant "under the guise of a routine border check."

quote:

Meng's extradition case is scheduled to resume in the B.C. Supreme Court on Wednesday.

Noops

Suing the Canadian government by alleging her constitutional rights were breached by RCMP, CBSA is a smart move on behalf of Meng.
However she should have done this a few months ago to gain maximum effect.

Whether or not this will impact the charges against her remains to be seen; it likely will be a side-show.
A potentially profitable side-show though.

From CANADIAN CHARTER OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS

Search or seizure
8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.

Arrest or detention

10. Everyone has the right on arrest or detention

(a) to be informed promptly of the reasons therefor;
(b) to retain and instruct counsel without delay and to be informed of that right; and
(c) to have the validity of the detention determined by way of habeas corpus and to be released if the detention is not lawful.

 

WWWTT

Surprise surprise 

WWWTT

What did I say about our charter, fighting for your rights and money up thread?

More money=more rights. It’s actually in the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms! If you don’t see it, then you probably think Canada is the best country in the world and wouldn’t even be a babble poster. 

Pogo Pogo's picture

NDPP wrote:

China Accuses Detained Canadians of Stealing Secrets

My hunch is that the Chinese (like all goverments) has a number of suspects that they are buiding evidence about their activities. They may or may not be guilty law enforcement is over zealous all over the world.

Then the arrest in Canada happens, and the government goes to their list and chooses some likely suspects to do a tit for tat.

Noops

Pogo wrote:

NDPP wrote:

China Accuses Detained Canadians of Stealing Secrets

My hunch is that the Chinese (like all goverments) has a number of suspects that they are buiding evidence about their activities. They may or may not be guilty law enforcement is over zealous all over the world.

Then the arrest in Canada happens, and the government goes to their list and chooses some likely suspects to do a tit for tat.

Yes I agree with your position. Most would likely also agree.
However, the most effective way to deal with the crisis would be to find someone (Canadian) who was really rich/powerful and detain them.

The Canadian government is paying lip service to the detention of the Canadians, but little more.
Bring in somebody really wealthy and you would see an entirely different response.
 

NDPP

China Halts Canola Shipments From Major Canadian Supplier

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-china-export-1.5043182

"Richardson International's licence to ship canola revoked, escalating Huawei dispute..."

Thanks Justin...

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

It seems our population is so brain washed by our propaganda mills like the CBC that it thinks we can fight a trade war with China over electronics with one hand and with the other we can ink sales deals for tar sands gunk that the Chinese will be willing to pay a premium for. The disconnect to any real world reality is quite astounding.

voice of the damned

So, when the Americans announce trade sanctions against a country over some issue or other, should that be taken as proof that the country should have done or not done what the Americans wanted in the first place?

NDPP

Meng Wanzhou Appears in Vancouver Court to Set Extradition Hearing Date

https://vancouversun.com/local-news/meng-wanzhou-appears-in-vancouver-co...

"A lawyer for Meng Wanzhou has raised concerns about what he calls the 'political' nature of the Chinese executive's extradition case. Richard Peck told a BC Supreme Court judge Wednesday that it was a rare and possibly unique extradition case and that he had 'serious concerns' that were not common to most such cases.

'There are issues about the political character, political motivations, comments by the US President Donald Trump's declaration in December that he might interfere in the case if he could get a better trade deal with China.' There are issues arising out of the treatment of Ms Meng on her arrival at the Vancouver International Airport and her detention and subsequent arrest. It's a complex case. I don't say that lightly.'

Peck told BC Supreme Court Associate Chief Justice Heather Holmes that there would be a number of defence applications that need to be heard before the hearing could get under way. He said there may well be disclosure applications, abuse of process  motions and applications to introduce defence evidence..."

 

Huawei Exec in Court: Day 1

https://youtu.be/uQ2-SVC-rsE

"Extradition hearing scheduled for May 8. She is also suing the Canadian government for their handling of the case..."

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

This will be a long case. The top Howe Street law firms are billing in 6 minute intervals with an unlimited budget.

Noops

kropotkin1951 wrote:

This will be a long case. The top Howe Street law firms are billing in 6 minute intervals with an unlimited budget.

Yes it will undoubtedly draw on for years.
Who will benefit? Who will be hurt?
Lawyers will benefit.
Free publicity for Huawei.
Trade between China and Canada will be greatly hurt (businesses will hurt).
Liberals will be greatly hurt.
Perhaps Trump will 'pardon' Meng when he leaves office (drop the case)?

 

WWWTT

Not sure if it’s anyway possible to foresee how this will go????

Liberals getting hurt and the lawyers making money are easy to predict. 

This case going a long time beyond a year, not so sure bout that one? I believe it’ll go beyond the October election and some time after that the feds may want to rid of it? On second thought that could be a long shot. Ms Meng may want to humiliate the Canadian government? Probably will be some kind of side deal made somewhere in all of this? 

As far as trade goes, China does enjoy a surplus with Canada, and Canada may very well start taking steps to reduce that and playing hard ball. Not sure what Canada may do as far as balancing trade effectively?

NDPP

Huawei Dials Up: US Attack on Huawei Fails, Sales Way Up!

https://youtu.be/enyPAxyd4vQ

"Chinese telecom giant is suing Canada over the arrest of CFO Meng Wanzhou alleging that they violated her constitutional rights. Huawei's founder says he was hurt when he learned of his daughter's arrest, but also said the US attack on Huawei has been good for business..."

 

Huawei v Washington: Chinese Tech Giant Sues US Govt

https://youtu.be/2co5ecahdAM

"Chinese tech giant sues US govt."

 

Huawei Sues the US Govt for Unconstitutional Sales Restrictions Imposed by Congress

https://www.huawei.com/en/press-events/news/2019/3/huawei-sues-the-us-go...

NDPP

The Point: Huawei CFO Sues Canada Over Violated Constitutional Rights

https://youtu.be/4h7YlxlkUFU

Canada accused of knowingly breaching Meng's constitutional rights.

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