End of Empire?
Japan threatening to oust U.S. troops from Okinawa:
... the US ruled out holding any negotiations with the new government regarding its 60+ year long military presence, insisting they made all the agreements they need with the outgoing Liberal Democratic Party (LDP).
The DPJ [Democratic Party of Japan] is reportedly playing hardball now, however, threatening to kick the US military off the island of Okinawa, which is where the bulk of their presence is situated. The islanders have long complained about the major burden of tens of thousands of US soldiers occupying a large chunk of their island.
The LDP's solution was to pay the US billions of dollars to relocate one of their bases. The DPJ however insists that if the US wants a sustainable alliance with Japan it will return to the bargaining table, and soon.
http://news.antiwar.com/2009/10/07/japan-threatening-to-oust-us-troops-f...
This is good news. I hope this will start a trend where the U.S.A. withdraws its bases from the Japanese home islands, South Korea, Taiwan, Guam, the Philippines, Diego Garcia, etc. From the Pacific, the U.S.A. could move on to Europe and withdraw its NATO bases. Afghanistan could be the graveyard of NATO and the American Empire.
...a trend where the U.S.A. withdraws its bases...
Better yet, a trend where the U.S. is nudged off all these national territories, as the Japanese are clearly doing, taking the lead from Latin and South America.
Yanqui, go home.
Now, if only Japan can be persuaded not to go nuclear in the absence of U.S.hegemony and a newly threatening China.
George, you sound like the Washington Post. Who is China newly threatening?
I heard on the Bill Maher show that the US still has 50,000 troops in Germany. WTF?
George, you sound like the Washington Post. Who is China newly threatening?
New York, Londen, Toronto, Frankfurt, etc. Now that all the factories have moved to China it is just a question of time before the corporate headquarters follow.
FM:
"George, you sound like the Washington Post. Who is China newly threatening?"
Countries that used to depend on U.S.hegemony, like Japan. Or, perhaps China could not become as intimidating in its climb toward military as well as commercial supremacy? There is some overwhelming, ideological/philosophical barrier to that happening? I don't see that at work in the "ethnic" enclaves on China's western flank, or its propensity to support anyone in Africa able to guarantee it resources. Oh, I know, it still has a ways to go. But if Japan is nervous, I am too.
I would like to see them withdraw from Canada and take the FBI and the Narcotics police with them.
Much more immediately Japan is worried about a nuclear North Korea.
I AM WARY OF ARGUMENTS BASED ON SUPERPOWERS' ALLEGED "FEARS". The propaganda is transparent.
I AM WARY OF ARGUMENTS BASED ON SEPARATISTS ALLEGED "FEARS" OF A DYING french language in Quebec. The propaganda is transparent. Manipulation for more money.
Agreed.
Er...did Gilles Duceppe drown your goldfish or something?
Switch to decaf already.
Yes, Doug, more immediately North Korea, but Japan is making noises about Okinawa to satisfy growing nationalist sentiment there, in the face of China's growing supremacy. Not that there is any historical incident that might evoke those "fears", eh Martin? No precedent for Chinese/Japanese concerns, just the American presense, like a sore thumb in "Asiatic affairs". And they lived happily ever after.
I doubt that you'd find much growing nationalist sentiment in Okinawa, given its own troubled history vis-a-vis Japan and its ambivalent status as an internalized other in discourses of Japanese national identity. Annexed in the 19th century and occupied by the US military from 1945-1972 and generally treated as Japan's metaphorical dumping ground (there's a reason most of the US troops are located there), it's the last place in Japan that would be particularly attached to the idea of "Japan."
No precedent for Chinese/Japanese concerns, just the American presence, like a sore thumb in "Asiatic affairs". And they lived happily ever after.
At this point in history I doubt if the Japanese will revert to their imperialist warmongering ways. The Chinese endured almost a century of occupation and control by imperial powers both the Japanese and the Europeans so they have spent 60 years building up their society and defences. That is of course scary to imperial powers who believe they have a christian god given right to rule the planet.
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Soothsayers had a better record of prediction than economists
The growing nationalist sentiment is in Japan, chaps. And if it is "end of (American) empire" time, and China is making like the new Imperial force, what do you think Japan might do with its nuclear knowledge and enrichment capacity? (Sorry, I can't quote an article, but read several in the past year. I don't even know if the sweeping change of parties in power contains an element of national unrest as well as concern for its economy. Perhaps someone can provide an article of depth?)
The Japanese have no fears of China. Chine is quote happy to buy and sell with all comers and without strings attached. It is why China is succeding in the so-called market economy where the US, which prefers subterfuge and bullets, is failing.
China itself is threatened, as it views the world, by encirclement between a hostile US, threatened economically and not militarily, and regional rival India which seems ready to stoke an arms race with US backing.
The fact that Japan is willing to stand up to the US at the same time as China and Russia move closer in the promotion of mutual interest, and while both countries cultivate relationships in Latin and South America, speaks more to the rate of US decline than China's emergence of any sort of threat other than economic.
I would like to see them withdraw from Canada and take the FBI and the Narcotics police with them.
I would like to see said organizations expelled from Canada.
Countries that used to depend on U.S.hegemony, like Japan.
Japan never depended on U.S. hegemeny (as represented by the U.S. bases?) it was forced upon them.
Whooo, two in one day. It is raining tory's in here! Woot!
Are both of them banned now?
Too much caffeine for Tory 1. Wonder what this busy chap's into? He should know it's making him quite sick.
No precedent for Chinese/Japanese concerns, just the American presence, like a sore thumb in "Asiatic affairs". And they lived happily ever after.
At this point in history I doubt if the Japanese will revert to their imperialist warmongering ways. The Chinese endured almost a century of occupation and control by imperial powers both the Japanese and the Europeans so they have spent 60 years building up their society and defences. That is of course scary to imperial powers who believe they have a christian god given right to rule the planet.
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Soothsayers had a better record of prediction than economists
Well, with its oil and mineral deals with Burma, Afghanistan (copper), Kazakhstan, Sudan, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, other African and other countries, China is just as much an imperialist as the U.S.A., Russia, Canada, the EU or anyone else.
Right on frmrsldr. In fact, we don't know its limits, yet.
Japan is contributing $8 billion toward moving the 3rd MEF to Guam. The US is spending $50 billion to enlarge their facilities on Guam to accomodate both the marines and an enlarged fighter presence at the USAF Anderson Field.
Rather than relying on other nations, the US is creating superbase hubs like Guam in the Pacific and Diego Garcia in the Indian ocean that are capable of projecting military power over a very large area.
No difference in geopolitical meddling, just less host nation friction.
The growing nationalist sentiment is in Japan, chaps. And if it is "end of (American) empire" time, and China is making like the new Imperial force, what do you think Japan might do with its nuclear knowledge and enrichment capacity? (Sorry, I can't quote an article, but read several in the past year. I don't even know if the sweeping change of parties in power contains an element of national unrest as well as concern for its economy. Perhaps someone can provide an article of depth?)
With North Korea refining Uranium and processing Plutonium, the U.S.A. is paranoid and was putting pressure on the former Japanese government to amend its constitution to allow Japan to develop nuclear weapons.
The sweeping change of replacing the government in power in Japan was the result of concern over the economy.
I'm just going to start deleting this guy's posts from now on. And I'll be reporting him to his ISP, which is MTO Telecom. You'd be surprised how cooperative internet service providers are when their users break their terms of service - people can actually lose their internet service over it.
Yeah!...
Perhaps, but in a very different way. China, to date, is quite content to purchase what it needs. It projects its power with money. The US, pretty much since its beginnings, has projected power with military force. Where the US has used economic power, it has usually been in the interests of complementing milirary efforts. I'm not saying it can't change for China, but if the US is the thug on the corner who robs the weak and vulnerable, China is more the kindly uncle who offers to help you through difficult times by relieving you of your burdensome properties.
drift for Michelle - one less neocon troll spending his days galloping around the internet and smutting it up. end drift
Japan is contributing $8 billion toward moving the 3rd MEF to Guam. The US is spending $50 billion to enlarge their facilities on Guam to accomodate both the marines and an enlarged fighter presence at the USAF Anderson Field.
Rather than relying on other nations, the US is creating superbase hubs like Guam in the Pacific and Diego Garcia in the Indian ocean that are capable of projecting military power over a very large area.
No difference in geopolitical meddling, just less host nation friction.
The U.K. and U.S. militaries occupy Diego Garcia. Since 1971, the U.K. expelled the island's indigenous people (the Chagosians) to Mauritius to make the island a purely military base.
The other issue is one of purely perception. Military bases that are isolated and unwelcome among populations demonstrates through true intent is anything but peaceful or benign.
Perhaps, but in a very different way. China, to date, is quite content to purchase what it needs. It projects its power with money. The US, pretty much since its beginnings, has projected power with military force. Where the US has used economic power, it has usually been in the interests of complementing milirary efforts. I'm not saying it can't change for China, but if the US is the thug on the corner who robs the weak and vulnerable, China is more the kindly uncle who offers to help you through difficult times by relieving you of your burdensome properties.
Good point Frustrated Mess! When one looks back at history, there is a pattern of first global economic activity followed by "gunboat diplomacy" - a need to protect one's overseas commercial fleet and international economic assets - in this case, from the predatory U.S.A. China has the world's largest standing army and is a nuclear power. Never a naval power, notice how it is now increasing its navy? Likewise India. India is a nuclear power and has a large standing army. Yet India has and is in the process of buying nuclear submarines. What naval power does India feel threatened by? Brazil and Argentina are rising economic powers. Brazil has bought Russian nuclear subs and its Vice President has indicated that Brazil should develop nuclear weapons. Argentina has also expressed that it too should develop nuclear weapons.
Perhaps none. The minds of men theory would suggest India is acting as an individual might. While for an individual an ostentatious display of new found wealth might be a new car, jewelry, and tailored clothes, for a state it is military hardware, grand engineering projects, and recognition on the world stage. Unfortunately, most states act like thugs.
Colonial administrators in Mulroney's clique wanted half or a dozen nuclear subs to patrol Canada's Arctic and the other two shores off continental Canada. Their masters in Warshington told them no way. Apparently Yanqui imperialists didnt want Canucks up there creating traffick problems for their own subs.
Perhaps none. The minds of men theory would suggest India is acting as an individual might. While for an individual an ostentatious display of new found wealth might be a new car, jewelry, and tailored clothes, for a state it is military hardware, grand engineering projects, and recognition on the world stage. Unfortunately, most states act like thugs.
That's exactly right. Think about it. What does any country need nuclear weapons and a space program for? They are both very expensive programs and they do nothing to cure illnesses and medical conditions that are the number one killers of people, they don't provide people with a decent standard of living/reduce poverty, they don't house the homeless, they don't feed the starving and malnourished, they don't provide education for children, they don't reduce illiteracy, they don't solve our environmental problems, etc. In fact, they draw money away from these more important concerns that we would collectively be better off if they were addressed rather than building more nukes and sending rockets and people into space.
Nuclear weapons and space programs are a case of 'conspicuous consumption'. Countries' version of "keeping up with the (wealthy) Joneses".
And they want to weaponize space. And our guys in Ottawa wanted to go along with it, too. We're ruled by a bunch of whacky-whacky people motivated by greed and lust for power.
"Minds of men theory" FM? You are living dangerously, aren't you? ;)
Perhaps, but in a very different way. China, to date, is quite content to purchase what it needs. It projects its power with money. The US, pretty much since its beginnings, has projected power with military force. Where the US has used economic power, it has usually been in the interests of complementing milirary efforts. I'm not saying it can't change for China, but if the US is the thug on the corner who robs the weak and vulnerable, China is more the kindly uncle who offers to help you through difficult times by relieving you of your burdensome properties.
Good point Frustrated Mess! When one looks back at history, there is a pattern of first global economic activity followed by "gunboat diplomacy" - a need to protect one's overseas commercial fleet and international economic assets - in this case, from the predatory U.S.A. China has the world's largest standing army and is a nuclear power. Never a naval power, notice how it is now increasing its navy? Likewise India. India is a nuclear power and has a large standing army. Yet India has and is in the process of buying nuclear submarines. What naval power does India feel threatened by? Brazil and Argentina are rising economic powers. Brazil has bought Russian nuclear subs and its Vice President has indicated that Brazil should develop nuclear weapons. Argentina has also expressed that it too should develop nuclear weapons.
I agree with the above. I never meant to imply that China is not an imperial power in its own right. What country that attains economic clout and is faced with the US military on all sides [Korea, Japan, Taiwan not to mention all the small island bases] would not want to arm itself well enough to be able to tell them to back off assholes. As for China never being a naval power that is of course not true, maybe not in the last few centuries but previously they were the dominate global naval power. They apparently did not use it for gunboat diplomacy but rather to promote trade and educate the "barbarians."
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Soothsayers had a better record of prediction than economists
Yeah!...
The separatist sock puppet believes in censoring anglos.... big surprise.
Dear God...it's back.
As for China never being a naval power that is of course not true, maybe not in the last few centuries but previously they were the dominate global naval power. They apparently did not use it for gunboat diplomacy but rather to promote trade and educate the "barbarians."
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Soothsayers had a better record of prediction than economists
Good point. I see the Asia Pacific countries in that area (China, South Korea, Japan and Taiwan) moving in the direction of peaceful diplomacy and economic trade among themselves. The reason why North Korea is the exception is that it has an inclement weather and geography making it difficult to grow and raise food. This problem was compounded when the regime switched its economy from investing in the well being of its people to realizing that it was unpopular and investing in military and police forces to suppress the people to stay in power. The Uranium refining and Plutonium processing is a gamble to turn U.S. attention toward North Korea in the hope that the U.S. will help out with loans and food aid.
Impoverished North Korea should be given no aid unless it abandons the persuit of nuclear weapons, the leaders of South Korea and Japan said Friday, forging a united stance before traveling to China for talks on how to get Pyongyang back to the negotiating table.
http://wire.antiwar.com/2009/10/09/skorea-japan-say-no-aid-until-nkorea-...
The great Superpower meltdown:
http://original.antiwar.com/engelhardt/2009/10/26/the-great-superpower-m...