Finally the Process to Impeach President Donald Trump begins

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josh

Whhich means they can't disseminate Russian propaganda?

Sean in Ottawa

The focus on Russian propaganda is dangerous - not becuase it does not exist but becuase it is not the whole story. Large domestic groups are working to compromise the US political process even further than it is and the US is focusing just on this one source of distortion.

When it comes to fake news, fake social media accounts, I am sure more are created every month in the US than the total of Russian fake news and political accounts for all time.

We keep fighting this stupid battle here about whether the Russians are guilty or not instead of actually seeing the context and proportion of what is going on. I think there is enough evidence to say the russians are probably guilty of trying to manipulate politics in the US. They have an interest and the means. We should expect that. However, this is drowning out the structural issues with the way social media is working and the domestic interference that I think is having a much greater effect. By focusing on the small ball bouncing down the track -- that really exists -- and some wish to denate does not exist we miss the big train comging from the other direction.

Admit already that the Russioan are guilty if you need in order to change focus on to the real cause of manipulation which is big money and religious propagand originating in the US itself.

In Canada we have to get there becuase at this point the manipulation of our elections is often coming from the US and the Russians, which are probably present, are insignificant compared to them. We also have a domestic problem as well.

The problem in this debate is distraction from the big picture and it is scary.

josh

Two associates of Rudy Giuliani who are linked to efforts in Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden were arrested for violating campaign finance rules.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/10/politics/read-indictment-giuliani-associates-arrested-campaign-finance/index.html

bekayne

josh wrote:

Two associates of Rudy Giuliani who are linked to efforts in Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden were arrested for violating campaign finance rules.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/10/politics/read-indictment-giuliani-associates-arrested-campaign-finance/index.html

Fake news! Deep state! But her emails!

NDPP

Re: 'The problem in this debate is distraction from the big picture and it is scary.'

John McMurtry: Lawless Trump-Canada Connections

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/10/07/lawless-trump-canada-connections/

"...Even although the establishment media and politicos may hate Trump, they know that US bully and vassal Canada waging corporate-state war on poorer, not-fully-capitalist countries is taboo to know even for them. It is one more dirty-secret accumulation of interconnected evils and lies out of sight under which the Creation increasingly groans."

(which is probably why it isn't even mentioned in national election debates.)

NDPP

Burisma Paid Joe Biden $900,000 For Lobbying - Ukrainian MP

https://popularresistance.org/burisma-paid-joe-biden-900000-for-lobbying...

"Former US Vice President Joe Biden received $900,000 for lobbying activities from Burisma Group, Ukraine's Verkhovna Rada member Andriy Derkach said citing investigation materials..."

Say it ain't so, Joe!

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

NDPP wrote:

Burisma Paid Joe Biden $900,000 For Lobbying - Ukrainian MP

https://popularresistance.org/burisma-paid-joe-biden-900000-for-lobbying...

"Former US Vice President Joe Biden received $900,000 for lobbying activities from Burisma Group, Ukraine's Verkhovna Rada member Andriy Derkach said citing investigation materials..."

Say it ain't so, Joe!

Great, if true. I'd love to see Biden out of the Dem primary.

NorthReport

It is most probably just more of Trump's Fake News campaign, but it were true it would open the door for an independent candidate to run for President  

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Josh is the great grandson of someone named McCarthy. Any dissent against the fatherland will be crushed and the people spreading such propaganda will be blacklisted from the entertainment industry and fired from any government jobs.

josh

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Josh is the great grandson of someone named McCarthy. Any dissent against the fatherland will be crushed and the people spreading such propaganda will be blacklisted from the entertainment industry and fired from any government jobs.

Really?  Never knew I had such power.

josh

The FBI and federal prosecutors in NYC are scrutinizing Rudy Giuliani’s financial dealings with the two men charged today. The men, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, are charged with pumping Russian money into US political campaigns.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarshallCohen/status/1182395473203793925

 

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Trump told the press that he has no idea who these guys are, but he might be in a few pictures with them. LOL.

josh

Michael Moriarity wrote:

Trump told the press that he has no idea who these guys are, but he might be in a few pictures with them. LOL.

https://twitter.com/TimOBrien/status/1182303314765107201?s=20

 

NorthReport
NDPP

Why I Can't Get Excited About Impeaching Trump

https://t.co/lF4pVKwFPn

"First, this impeachment inquiry will not succeed in getting rid of Trump. To win, a supermajority of the Senate must vote for impeachment. This will not happen. Even if the inquiry clearly shows that Trump withheld military aid to pressure President Zelenksy to give him dirt on Joe and Hunter, the inquiry will also expose the sleaziness of the Bidens...This doomed effort won't even make for good TV..."

josh

Giuliani was trying to take over American diplomacy in Ukraine and steer it toward the goal of digging up dirt on Trump’s rivals. The gas deal they tried to make seems to have been the way Parnas and Fruman would be compensated for financing Giuliani’s private diplomacy on Trump’s behalf.

. . . .

Asked about his work for Parnas’s aptly named firm, Giuliani told the New York Times, “All I can tell you is that most of the Fraud Guarantee work, in fact the Fraud Guarantee work, which — or I should say — I can’t acknowledge it’s Fraud Guarantee, I don’t think.”

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2019/10/trump-lawyer-rudy-giuliani-under-criminal-investigation.html?__twitter_impression=trued

bekayne

josh wrote:

Giuliani was trying to take over American diplomacy in Ukraine and steer it toward the goal of digging up dirt on Trump’s rivals. The gas deal they tried to make seems to have been the way Parnas and Fruman would be compensated for financing Giuliani’s private diplomacy on Trump’s behalf.

. . . .

Asked about his work for Parnas’s aptly named firm, Giuliani told the New York Times, “All I can tell you is that most of the Fraud Guarantee work, in fact the Fraud Guarantee work, which — or I should say — I can’t acknowledge it’s Fraud Guarantee, I don’t think.”

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2019/10/trump-lawyer-rudy-giuliani-under-criminal-investigation.html?__twitter_impression=trued

NDPP

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/wj-wNuKmBrY

"Democrats deep ties to Russia & Ukraine corruption."

NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport
NDPP

Taibbi: We're In A Permanent Coup

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/were-in-a-permanent-coup

"...And while Donald Trump conducting foreign policy based on what he sees on Fox and Friends is troubling, it's not in the same ballpark as CNN, MSNBC, the Washington Post and the New York Times engaging in de facto coverage partnerships with the FBI and CIA to push highly politicized, phony narratives like Russiagate.

I don't believe most Americans have thought through what a successful campaign to oust Donald Trump would look like. Most casual news consumers can only think of it in terms of Mike Pence becoming president. The real problem would be the precedent of a de facto intelligence community veto over elections, using the lunatic spookworld brand of politics that has dominated the last three years of anti-Trump agitation..."

 

"If everything happens for a reason, then maybe neoliberals and chicken hawks who failed in 2016, failed with Russiagate and are now set to fail with Ukrainegate need to keep failing until they're no longer a dominant political/media force. May they fail next in the 2020 primary."

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1182844722349514752

josh

Federal prosecutors in Manhattan are investigating whether President Trump’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani broke lobbying laws in his dealings in Ukraine, according to two people familiar with the inquiry.

The investigators are examining Mr. Giuliani’s efforts to undermine the American ambassador to Ukraine, Marie L. Yovanovitch, one of the people said. She was recalled in the springas part of Mr. Trump’s broader campaign to pressure Ukraine into helping his political prospects. 

The investigation into Mr. Giuliani is tied to the case against two of his associates who were arrested this week on campaign finance-related charges, the people familiar with the inquiry said. The associates were charged with funneling illegal contributions to a congressman whose help they sought in removing Ms. Yovanovitch.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/11/us/politics/rudy-giuliani-investigation.html#click=https://t.co/ZaCHKELhUW

josh

NDPP wrote:

Taibbi: We're In A Permanent Coup

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/were-in-a-permanent-coup

"...And while Donald Trump conducting foreign policy based on what he sees on Fox and Friends is troubling, it's not in the same ballpark as CNN, MSNBC, the Washington Post and the New York Times engaging in de facto coverage partnerships with the FBI and CIA to push highly politicized, phony narratives like Russiagate.

I don't believe most Americans have thought through what a successful campaign to oust Donald Trump would look like. Most casual news consumers can only think of it in terms of Mike Pence becoming president. The real problem would be the precedent of a de facto intelligence community veto over elections, using the lunatic spookworld brand of politics that has dominated the last three years of anti-Trump agitation..."

 

"If everything happens for a reason, then maybe neoliberals and chicken hawks who failed in 2016, failed with Russiagate and are now set to fail with Ukrainegate need to keep failing until they're no longer a dominant political/media force. May they fail next in the 2020 primary."

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1182844722349514752

Nixon won 49 states and over 60% of the vote, and was brought down in no small part by the number 3 in the FBI leaking facts to the Washington Post.  I guess that was an anti-democracy “coup” as well.  People like Taibbi and Mate not only believe that Democrats are worse than Republicans and the N.Y. Times is worse than Fox, more disturbingly they seem to be a president, or at least this president, is above the law.

josh

One of the two Florida businessmen who helped U.S. President Donald Trump's personal attorney investigate his political rival, Democrat Joe Biden, also has been working for the legal team of a Ukrainian oligarch who faces bribery charges in the United States, according to attorneys for the businessmen and the oligarch.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1WQ2H5?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%2BTrending%2BContent&utm_content=5da139a1594d1700014c2079&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

josh

President Trump sought to enlist then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson in the fall of 2017 to work with Rudolph W. Giuliani to help stop the prosecution of a Turkish Iranian gold trader represented by the former New York mayor, according to people with knowledge of the request.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-asked-tillerson-to-help-broker-deal-to-end-us-prosecution-of-turkish-trader-represented-by-giuliani/2019/10/10/fbe16976-eb6b-11e9-9306-47cb0324fd44_story.html?wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1

NDPP

Trump is Happy to Make Impeachment the Centerpiece of 2020 Campaign (and podcast)

https://sptnkne.ws/Abca

"President Trump gave a fiery, angry vulgarity-filled 102-minute long speech in Minneapolis last night in which he called the impeachment inquiry 'a brazen attempt to overthrow our government,' while two close associates of Rudy Giuliani were arrested at an airport while trying to leave. They are facing campaign finance violation charges. Meanwhile, one of the last Democratic holdouts in the House of Representatives said that she will now support impeachment..."

josh

Hard to tell the difference between this and folks like Jimmy Dore and Aaron Mate.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1183161307379449856?s=20

 

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

NDPP

Swanson: Trump's Opponents Have Him Beat...When It Comes To Incompetence

http://davidswanson.org/trumps-opponents-have-him-beat-when-it-comes-to-...

"If Trump were to finally shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, Nancy Pelosi, Jerrold Nadler and company would not declare it acceptable, absolutely not. But what they would do would be to open a months-long investigation into the history of the victim, what Trump had said earlier in the day, who had manufactured the gun, and - above all - what foreign government they could blame it on.

In fact, I'd be willing to wager that if Trump were to vomit on Pelosi's head, she would open a very serious and lengthy series of investigations into whether he'd had any foreign food to eat. Do you doubt it? Let's examine the evidence..."

NDPP

DC's Atlantic Council Raked in Funding From Hunter Biden's Corruption-Stained Employer While Courting his VP Father

https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1183841542957600768

"Burisma's Ukrainian oligarch* shoveled hundreds of thousands into Atlantic Council, the corrupt pay-to-play front that brings together infowarrior grifters like Anders Asland & Eliot Higgins with blood money from Erdogan, Gulf despots, Raytheon, Lockheed."

This 'Ukrainian Oligarch' (seen here with a longtime Canadian 'friend')

https://pinchukfund.org/upload/iblock/c94/ILS_3434.jpg

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

NDPP wrote:

Taibbi: We're In A Permanent Coup

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/were-in-a-permanent-coup

"...And while Donald Trump conducting foreign policy based on what he sees on Fox and Friends is troubling, it's not in the same ballpark as CNN, MSNBC, the Washington Post and the New York Times engaging in de facto coverage partnerships with the FBI and CIA to push highly politicized, phony narratives like Russiagate.

I don't believe most Americans have thought through what a successful campaign to oust Donald Trump would look like. Most casual news consumers can only think of it in terms of Mike Pence becoming president. The real problem would be the precedent of a de facto intelligence community veto over elections, using the lunatic spookworld brand of politics that has dominated the last three years of anti-Trump agitation..."

 

"If everything happens for a reason, then maybe neoliberals and chicken hawks who failed in 2016, failed with Russiagate and are now set to fail with Ukrainegate need to keep failing until they're no longer a dominant political/media force. May they fail next in the 2020 primary."

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1182844722349514752

Guess who really liked this piece, other than NDPP and Aaron Mate: Breitbart, Instapundit, Scott Adams, Mark Steyn, Ace of Spades, Pam Geller. Great minds think alike.

NDPP

Stupid ones too Michael...

josh

NorthReport
NorthReport

Michael

Do you happen to know why Taibbi is no longer writing for Rolling Stone or what the background is about that?

 

Thanks

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

NorthReport wrote:

Michael

Do you happen to know why Taibbi is no longer writing for Rolling Stone or what the background is about that?

Thanks

I hadn't heard that he was no longer with Rolling Stone, and searching Google news doesn't turn up any stories about him quitting or being fired. The Matt Taibbi page there still shows him as a contributing editor. That recent piece just seems to be something he did outside his regular job.

NorthReport

Thanks again.

He used to write regularly for RS but I hadn't seen his articles recently.

Mobo2000

Gotta say, Michael, I found that No More Mister Nice Blog article pretty vacuous.   It doesnt address a single thing said by Taibbi.   Guilt by association.   Taibbi has been a journalist I've trusted and admired for a long time, and he is far from right wing or an imperialist.

Brietbart and the conservative press are also big supporters of the protestors in Hong Kong and the attempted coup in Venezuela.   The mainstream US liberal media, much of the Democratic party and some Republicans clearly disagree with the US withdrawl in Syria, and regularly goad Trump into more strident foreign policy positions.  We live in strange times, and many issues, especially around empire and war, have support coming from strange places.

Taibbi is still writing for Rolling Stone, he also has book excerpts and articles posted on his substack.

His latest article is pertinent to this thread -- I also hope Biden is not the nominee, Taibbi argues that the current impeachment drive may help his chances  (and perhaps that may be an intended side effect of the impeachment process).: 

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/joe-biden-parado...

"The Ukraine story by its very nature will — and possibly should, depending on your view of Hunter’s Burisma job — dog Biden for as long as his campaign continues. The increased scrutiny and Trump’s direct assault on his family have forced Biden into a more combative mode on the trail. In one 24-hour span, he attacked the New York Times coverage of his campaign as “journalistic malpractice” while endorsing impeachment, saying Trump was “shooting holes in the Constitution.”

Impeachment does commit Democrats to a strident defense of Biden and his son, even if, or perhaps especially if, there’s a real problem that needs regular PR response. There are already reports that major party donors are “weighing” whether to set up a Super PAC to “independently” defend Biden.

These include Julianna Smoot, who led Obama’s campaign finance team, Democratic consultant Mark Riddle, and others. The Washington Post reported the group is concerned a pro-Biden PAC may trigger attacks from primary rivals Warren and Sanders that he is “being bankrolled by wealthy interests.” This comes as word leaked out that Biden has cut back on digital ads after posting just $15.2 million in money raised in the third quarter of the 2020 race, a dramatic fall from his second-quarter number of $22 million. He is far behind both Warren ($24.6 million) and Sanders ($25.3 million), so a sudden surge in PAC money would be a potential campaign saver."

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Mobo2000 wrote:

Gotta say, Michael, I found that No More Mister Nice Blog article pretty vacuous.   It doesnt address a single thing said by Taibbi.   Guilt by association.   Taibbi has been a journalist I've trusted and admired for a long time, and he is far from right wing or an imperialist.

It obviously wasn't intended to address the content. Guilt by association seems quite appropriate to me in this case. I know that if something I wrote drew fullsome praise from these sources, I'd be having second thoughts.

NorthReport

Oh, for goodness sakes!

Hillary Clinton hints Russia is grooming Tulsi Gabbard as third-party candidate

Former secretary of state indicated in a podcast that the Hawaii congresswoman ‘is a favorite of the Russians’

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/18/hillary-clinton-hints-russia-is-grooming-tulsi-gabbard-as-third-party-candidate

NDPP

ps Apparently she named Green Party USA's Jill Stein as a Putin puppet also. "Yeah, she's a Russian asset - I mean totally." Is crooked Hillary going to get Donald Trump elected again?

This may be why she's so mad...

38 People Cited For Violations in Clinton Email Probe

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1185280669963948034

"US State Dept has completed its internal investigation into former Sec Clinton's use of private email and found violations by 38 people..."

NDPP

CN Live: Episode 14 (and vid)

https://twitter.com/Consortiumnews/status/1185344675927904257

Impeachment/Syria: Scott Ritter, Peter B Collins, Scott Horton, Tim Anderson

@10:00

NDPP

Ukrainegate Risks Handing Trump Another Gift

https://www.thenation.com/article/ukrainegate-biden-trump/

"...The signs from within the Democratic Party itself are not encouraging. On Wednesday, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi opted against holding a vote to formally authorize the impeachment inquiry. Even without a formal vote, the impeachment inquiry is having the predictable consequence of over-shadowing everything else, including the policy agenda that Democrats hope will win over voters in 2020. It certainly does not help matters that the scandal also calls attention to one of their top presidential candidate's dealings in Ukraine..."

josh

NDPP wrote:

This may be why she's so mad...

38 People Cited For Violations in Clinton Email Probe

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1185280669963948034

"US State Dept has completed its internal investigation into former Sec Clinton's use of private email and found violations by 38 people..."

Au contraire, she should be pleased.
 

State Department probe of Clinton emails finds no deliberate mishandling of classified information

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/state-department-probe-...

melovesproles

It obviously wasn't intended to address the content. Guilt by association seems quite appropriate to me in this case. I know that if something I wrote drew fullsome praise from these sources, I'd be having second thoughts.

I understand that impulse but I disagree. I think the world is complex enough that sometimes there will be strange bedfellows. I disagree with Taibbi's conclusion that impeachment doesn't have any value (for me it's not the end goal but the process which could be used to kneecap Trump and the Republican party and shed some light on what a group of corrupt fascistic gangsters they are.) I also think his assertion that this is going to push American democracy off a cliff gives the US democratic system too much legitimacy and ignores the fact that the only way Republicans can win government is by using voter suppression and gerrymandering. But I think his concerns are legitimate and worth keeping in frame. This is a Security state vs Executive situation and the goal should be to see both of these apparatuses constrained as much as possible moving forward and not accept whole hog the narrative of either group.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

melovesproles wrote:

It obviously wasn't intended to address the content. Guilt by association seems quite appropriate to me in this case. I know that if something I wrote drew fullsome praise from these sources, I'd be having second thoughts.

I understand that impulse but I disagree. I think the world is complex enough that sometimes there will be strange bedfellows. I disagree with Taibbi's conclusion that impeachment doesn't have any value (for me it's not the end goal but the process which could be used to kneecap Trump and the Republican party and shed some light on what a group of corrupt fascistic gangsters they are.) I also think his assertion that this is going to push American democracy off a cliff gives the US democratic system too much legitimacy and ignores the fact that the only way Republicans can win government is by using voter suppression and gerrymandering. But I think his concerns are legitimate and worth keeping in frame. This is a Security state vs Executive situation and the goal should be to see both of these apparatuses constrained as much as possible moving forward and not accept whole hog the narrative of either group.

I agree with all of your substantive points about the piece, particularly that U.S. democracy has been manipulated by the military/intelligence apparatus for some time. I don't want to go all conspiracy theory, but there are a lot of hints that the security establishment may have been involved in the killing of JFK.

I would add that if I were a member of the House of Representatives, I would feel that my oath demanded that I vote to impeach Trump if I believed he had committed impeachable offenses, regardless of political fallout. That may be one reason why I could never have been a successful politician.

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