France

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josh

New poll has LePen and Macron at 23.  And Melenchon and Fillon at 19.

http://www.lunion.fr/24766/article/2017-04-07/sondage-presidentielle-jea...

 

josh
SeekingAPolitic...

Michael Moriarity wrote:

Based on policy, it would seem that Hamon should be considering dropping out and supporting Mélenchon. Then one actual left candidate would most likely be in the run off.

That would in a word awesome condidering the following news.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/10/jean-luc-melenchon-shakes-...

2 weeks to go and Melenchon has the momentum.

18-19% Melechon

23-24% Le Pen, Marcon

According to the article he has big support among the young and doing bernie sized rallies.  Personally very uplifting and exciting news.

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/70000-French-Attend-Leftist-Presid...

70,000 showed up at his rally!  --- Orangizers number. 

lagatta4

Josh, perhaps your link changed about the responsibility of the French State in the "Vel d'Hiv' roundups of French Jews? This is the current one I found: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/09/marine-le-pen-denies-frenc... . So much for her so-called distancing from her dad's fascist and anti-semitic ideas. I hope this will shake up the Jewish voters for the FN. Yes, they might hate Arabs and Blacks more (back in the day, they didn't mention "Muslims" so much) but they hate you too. Never forget it. 

The French police actually went BEYOND their orders, rounding up French as well as foreign Jews in that atrocity. I attended a commemoration of it, the 50th if I recall. 

NorthReport

As French Election Nears, a Bernie Sanders-Style Candidate Rises in the Polls

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/as_french_election_nears_a_bernie_sa...

NorthReport

French election shaken by surge in support for far-left candidate

Jean-Luc Mélenchon’s rise turns presidential campaign into four-horse race watched by voters in ‘destructive mood’

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/12/french-presidential-electi...

Doug Woodard

Marine Le Pen is accused of misusing European Parliament office funds for political purposes:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/14/marine-le-pen-french-prose...

I wonder what the French would have made of Stephen Harper appointing Duffy, Frum etc. to the Senate so they could work as party propagandists?

josh

Interesting results from Ipsos poll.  4 candidates are three points apart.  LePen and Macron at 22.  Melenchon at 20.  Fillon at 19.  Macron would beat the other three in the runoff.  Melenchon would beat LePen and Fillon.  Only 7% of LePen voters pick right-wing candidates as their second choice.

http://www.ipsos.fr/sites/default/files/doc_associe/enquete_presidentiel...

 

NorthReport
kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

josh wrote:

Interesting results from Ipsos poll.  4 candidates are three points apart.  LePen and Macron at 22.  Melenchon at 20.  Fillon at 19.  Macron would beat the other three in the runoff.  Melenchon would beat LePen and Fillon.  Only 7% of LePen voters pick right-wing candidates as their second choice.

http://www.ipsos.fr/sites/default/files/doc_associe/enquete_presidentiel...

At three points apart that is within the margin of error so it really says we don't know who is in front. So is this more Russian interference in the elcetion? 

NorthReport
josh

kropotkin1951 wrote:

josh wrote:

Interesting results from Ipsos poll.  4 candidates are three points apart.  LePen and Macron at 22.  Melenchon at 20.  Fillon at 19.  Macron would beat the other three in the runoff.  Melenchon would beat LePen and Fillon.  Only 7% of LePen voters pick right-wing candidates as their second choice.

http://www.ipsos.fr/sites/default/files/doc_associe/enquete_presidentiel...

At three points apart that is within the margin of error so it really says we don't know who is in front. So is this more Russian interference in the elcetion? 

No, it's within the RMOE.

lagatta4

Mélenchon always wears a tiny red triangle, the symbol of the badges sewn onto the striped pyjama uniforms of politicals in the Nazi camps.

https://boutique.territoires-memoire.be/img/cms/TR-signaletique-grande.jpg The various symbols. It was certainly most unpleasant indeed to be wearing the political-Jewish symbol, but the pink triangle also meant a particularly nasty situation. 

Former French PM Léon Blum actually survived the camps though, although he was a socialist and a Jew. The Nazis had a weird regard for status. 

Would anyone know how to post the image directly? I clicked on "copy the image". 

 

quizzical

lagatta, i don't really get this little badge thing.

all prisoners had a designation in the camps and wore badges so guards would know?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Lagatta try copying the image address not location into the Image App. Also it does seem that if you have already used the quote function the Image App does not open up.  Some polls have her leading but the polls are close enough that any of the four leaders could make the final round and one of the front runners might be out in the first round. Nothing like a good close race to make polling and strategic voting irrelevant.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2017/0412/867366-france-polls/

NorthReport

Better late than never but too bad they didn't do this in the recent USA presidential election

Facebook targets 30,000 fake France accounts before election

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/facebook-targets-30000-fake-f...

lagatta4

Thanks Kropotkin. I'll try again that way. Usually the way I did it works... 

quizzical, yes. The yellow star that Jewish captives had to wear is "sadly famous" (de triste mémoire, in French)... I could say infamous but it is more the Nazis who were infamous. In more recent years the pink triangle gay men had to wear has become better known, and a symbol of the oppression of LGBT people. Roma ("Gypsy") people were assigned a dark purple cloth badge. The Nazis were not only ruthless but maniacal about classification and order, in contrast to say Russian Empire pogroms that also targeted Jews and Roma. 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

lagatta4

Thanks! 

Doug Woodard

lagatta4 wrote:

quizzical, yes. The yellow star that Jewish captives had to wear is "sadly famous" (de triste mémoire, in French)... I could say infamous but it is more the Nazis who were infamous. In more recent years the pink triangle gay men had to wear has become better known, and a symbol of the oppression of LGBT people. Roma ("Gypsy") people were assigned a dark purple cloth badge. The Nazis were not only ruthless but maniacal about classification and order, in contrast to say Russian Empire pogroms that also targeted Jews and Roma. 

I think the badges were also a method of psychological warfare, meaning "this is who you are, an untermensch. Get used to it." One recalls the "nacht und nebel" policy of destroying as much evidence as possible of a prisoner's identity, giving them a number, and never referring to them in any way by any means other than the number. I reckon it was a way of rebuilding the subject's Weltanschaung to one of eternal inferiority, and passivity.

NorthReport

Mélenchon puts left in contention as French election becomes too close to call

With a week until the first round of voting, support for veteran La France Insoumise candidate is rising in a four-way contest

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/15/jean-luc-melenchon-france-...

NorthReport

French election too close to call as support for far-left Mélenchon surges

Latest polls show just 3 percentage points between top four candidates

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/french-election-marine-le...

quizzical

Lagatta, fascinating. thank you for bringing this to light for me.

 

 

NorthReport

What You Need To Know About France’s Far Right

Marine Le Pen’s rise and the French presidential election.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-you-need-to-know-about-frances...

josh

Although he's better than the even worse Fillon and the fascist LePen, Macron is dreadful. 

https://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/french-election-trouble-...

 

NorthReport

Far-left veteran Melenchon draws big crowd as French election enters final straight

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-election-idUSKBN17I0PV?il=0

NorthReport

Fake news reports and a barrage of hacking attacks have France worried about Russian meddling in its election:

https://twitter.com/nytimesworld/status/854108736775958528

NorthReport
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josh

If the polls are to be believed, looks like Macron has nailed down one of the two spots.

lagatta4

While not as bad as the relooked fascist Marine Le Pen, Macron was the namesake of La Loi Macron, yet another law stripping workers of rights and protection. He is not a friend. 

josh

No, he's a classic neo-liberal.  A Blairite come to France.  But I guess that's better than a full fledged Thatcherite or a fascist.  Keeping my fingers crossed for Melenchon, but don't see it happening.

NorthReport

Can up to 4 candidates be in the runoff?

Ans. No, only 2 apparently.

NorthReport
NorthReport
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josh

Ah, the Guardian of neo-liberalism in action.

NorthReport

Maybe Tulsi Gabbard and Bernie Sanders should go to France tomorrow to support Jean-Luc Melenchon

French presidential race looks tight — and a far-left Bernie-Sanders-like candidate has been surging

At the moment, Melenchon is tired. He has just held a rally at which he spoke for more than three hours with barely a glance at his notes. But his weary look brightens when he is asked about being compared to former U.S. presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, the democratic socialist senator from Vermont.

“You know, we sent someone to the U.S. to study Bernie Sanders. I like the comparison. And he’s 10 years older than me, which makes me feel young,” Melenchon said recently.“Yes, I like him.”

https://news.google.com/news/story?cf=all&hl=en&pz=1&ned=ca&q=melenchon&...

NorthReport
josh

I worry about Fillon because his support is older and more likely to show up.  

NorthReport
josh

NorthReport wrote:

How accurate is French polling?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_French_presidentia...

According to the 538 link you posted, pretty good.  But nothing is foolproof.  I would be surprised though, based on the polling, if Macron didn't get one of the spots.

lagatta4

Fillon's supporters are old ... and rich. Unfortunately wealthy older people are among the most likely to vote, though there is quite a youth movement for Mélenchon.

NDPP

The Main Issue in the French Presidential Election: National Sovereignty     -   by Diana Johnstone

https://t.co/sHISDhtLXF

"The 2017 French Presidential election marks a profound change in European political alignments. There is an ongoing shift from the traditional left-right rivalry to opposition between globalization, in the form of the European Union (EU) and national sovereignty.

Standard media sticks to a simple left-right dualism: 'racist' rejection of immigrants is the main issue and what matters most is to 'stop Marine Le Pen!'. 

Going from there to here is like walking through Alice's looking glass. Almost everything is turned around. On this side of the glass, the left has turned into the right and part of the right is turning into the left..."

The confusion is due to the fact that most of what calls itself 'the left' in the West has been totally won over to the current form of imperialism..."

NorthReport
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lagatta4

Diana Johnstone is full of it. France is an imperialist power. It still has colonies, for cripes sake.

lagatta4
josh

Good to see a lot supporting Melenchon.

NDPP

Macron & Team Obama To 'Work Together' to Beat Rivals He Ordered CIA to infiltrate in 2012

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/855158040684666880

How French Presidential Candidate Emmanuel Macron was Summed Up to Hillary Clinton by US State Dept

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/826661529760116736

"Born in 1977, Macron is currently a banker in mergers and acquisitions at Rothschild in Paris..."

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