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epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

josh

..this can also apply to what you were arguing in the british election thread re setting a different course than the eu.

Mélenchon: A Radical Reformist Against Mounting Oligarchy

quote:

Painted as a dangerous extremist, Jean-Luc Mélenchon is attacked by all those who think that there is no alternative to neoliberal globalisation. For them, democracy requires acceptance of the "post-political consensus" established among the centre-left and centre-right parties. Any questioning of this consensus must be the work of populist demagogues.

For them, defending democracy thus demands warding off the populist threat in all its forms. But if democracy is today in danger, that is precisely because of post-politics. It is this latter that has led to the "post-political" situation that today reigns in most Western countries. The ideals of popular sovereignty and greater equality have disappeared. Elections no longer offer citizens the possibility of choosing between different political projects.

As one of the slogans of the indignados movement in Spain had it, "We have a vote, but we have no voice." This rejection of post-democracy is itself expressed through the "populist moment" which characterises the present conjuncture. In this we should discern the demand for a real participation in political decisions.

Of course, this demand can take numerous forms, depending on the form in which the "people" — the "we" demanding a voice — is constructed. That is where the difference between "right populism" — authoritarian in type and seeking to restrict democracy to nationals — and "left populism" — seeking to extend and radicalize democracy — lies. If right-wing populism has thus far secured better results, that is because the Left has long remained prisoner of a consensual vision of politics and a failure to recognise the crucial role of emotions in constituting political identities.

The strength of a movement like France Insoumise is precisely that it has broken with such a vision and offers a perspective capable of creating a collective will, a "we" that crystallises common emotions and mobilises them in the direction of deepening democracy. For that is Jean-Luc Mélenchon’s objective: to bring together the people, to create a collective will around a project of citizens’ revolution, in order to write a new constitution that opens up more debate and facilitates the expression of popular sovereignty.

lagatta4

Yes, it is funny when a Rothschild banker is seen as "anti-establishment". 

But no surprise that Front national types were referring to Rothschild as code for Jewish... The FN had been trying to rebrand itself in that respect, but the fascist miasma keeps oozing out. 

Mélenchon was actually ahead in the most recent polls, but it is too close to call, and there is the matter of who votes. 

josh

Exit polls saying looks like Macron and LePen.

NorthReport

Which is in line with the polling.

NorthReport

Has the alt-right every been in a presidential run-off before?

josh

NorthReport wrote:

Has the alt-right every been in a presidential run-off before?

LePen's father was in 2002.

voice of the damned

josh wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

Assuming you consider him to be alt-right, since as far as I know, the term did not exist in 2002. Definitely that era's equivalent to alt-right.

Has the alt-right every been in a presidential run-off before?

LePen's father was in 2002.

voice of the damned

^ Well, THAT didn't work out. Let's try it again.

voice of the damned

josh wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

Has the alt-right every been in a presidential run-off before?

LePen's father was in 2002.

Assuming you consider him to be alt-right, since as far as I know, the term did not exist in 2002. Definitely that era's equivalent to alt-right.

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Looks like there's about two weeks until the final vote.

Plenty of time for religious k00Ks to campaign for LePen.  Not by knocking on doors or handing out pamphlets, of course, but by bombing a daycare or some similar.  Make sure that things get worse, so they can get better.

NDPP

Or for state or non-state actors to do so on her behalf...

josh

A neo-liberal versus a fascist.  Haven't we seen this movie before.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Or for state or non-state actors to do so on her behalf...

I think I covered the second part of that.  Religious k00Ks are "non-state actors", yes?

TBH, though, I'm curious why "the state" would support this.  Do you have some theories as to why the current French government would pay someone to help LePen win??

bekayne

NDPP wrote:

Macron & Team Obama To 'Work Together' to Beat Rivals He Ordered CIA to infiltrate in 2012

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/855158040684666880

How French Presidential Candidate Emmanuel Macron was Summed Up to Hillary Clinton by US State Dept

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/826661529760116736

"Born in 1977, Macron is currently a banker in mergers and acquisitions at Rothschild in Paris..."

So I guess Wikileaks will be supporting the fascist.

Cody87

Because calling people fascists remains a sound political strategy, am I right?

@Magoo, to be fair, NDPP didn't specific "which" state. Perhaps he was referring to the Russians, who have of course been accused of helping Le Pen.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

If I recall correctly, in the 2002 election the socialists urged their supporters to vote for Sarkosy to stop LaPen Senior from winning the election. Back then, the alt right movement as we call it today had not yet come about but there was definitely some post-9-11 action happening in European elections that first thrusted momentum for extreme right wing political parties.

NDPP

I didn't say 'help her win'.  You did.  More likely would be an intervention to help her lose. For which she would be held 'responsible'. 

 

NorthReport

Sounds like you will be disappointed if Le Pen loses NDPP. Go figure.

The French are reasonable people so Le Pen has no chance.

NorthReport
NDPP

NorthReport wrote:

Sounds like you will be disappointed if Le Pen loses NDPP. Go figure.

The French are reasonable people so Le Pen has no chance.

No. Nor does it sound so. But if I was a betting man I'd recommend putting your money on the same horse Obama's backing. 

voice of the damned

laine lowe wrote:

If I recall correctly, in the 2002 election the socialists urged their supporters to vote for Sarkosy to stop LaPen Senior from winning the election. Back then, the alt right movement as we call it today had not yet come about but there was definitely some post-9-11 action happening in European elections that first thrusted momentum for extreme right wing political parties.

That's pretty much it, though the beneficiary of that vote-consolidation was Chirac, not Sarkozy.

And I think the alt-right Marine is preaching pretty much the same thing that the "old right"(?) Jea-Marie was, maybe with less overt anti-semitism. But yeah, the old platform possibly got a bit of an uplift from 9-11, though I believe left-wing vote-splitting in the first round had something to do with it as well.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

laine lowe wrote:

If I recall correctly, in the 2002 election the socialists urged their supporters to vote for Sarkosy to stop LaPen Senior from winning the election. Back then, the alt right movement as we call it today had not yet come about but there was definitely some post-9-11 action happening in European elections that first thrusted momentum for extreme right wing political parties.

Chirac, not Sarkozy.  Sarkozy didn't stand until '07.  Same basic idea, though.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

The Meaning of France Insoumise

The Mélenchon campaign has breathed new life into the French left in recent weeks, soaring to a competitive position in the polls and drawing tens of thousands to rallies.

But after his narrow defeat today, questions still linger. What does Mélenchon represent? What can the origins of his France Insoumise [Rebellious France] tell us about its politics? And where is it likely to go next?

quote:

Initially, citizens were called upon to join this movement in order to support Mélenchon’s presidential campaign. They were then offered the chance to participate in writing his program, in the form of online contributions that were then logged and synthesized, and then in choosing the candidates presented by France Insoumise in the parliamentary elections that will follow shortly after the presidential contest. As with Podemos, FI criticizes the ‘party’ form as out of date and unable to rise to the challenge of the current crisis of democracy. France Insoumise’s open and loose structure is held up as a factor that will help rally discontented citizens who no longer want to submit to the French ‘political class’ that runs the Fifth Republic.

However, the key posts animating and directing the France Insoumise campaign are entrusted to individuals close to Mélenchon, indeed almost all of them members of the Left Party. Today close to 400,000 people have signed up to an online declaration of support. The candidate claims an official total of 125,000 members involved in his support groups. There are probably around 15,000 militants who are actively campaigning as part of France Insoumise.

quote:

France Insoumise calls for the “abolition of the presidential monarchy,” challenging the role of president as well as that of the upper chamber (the Senate). It proposes the calling of a Constituent Assembly upon Mélenchon’s election as president. This would be the founding event of a Sixth Republic. After the work of writing a new constitution integrating new universal rights is complete, he would then resign as president and call new parliamentary elections.

josh

Polls show that half of Melenchon votes will vote for Macron in the runoff, 3 in 10 will sit it out, and 1 in 5 will vote for LePen.

https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/856539761523122176

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Well, that's a lot better than Macron's supporters would do for Melenchon if HE'd been the one who made the runoff against LePen.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I truly hope Melenchon's alliance can make a strong showing in the National Assembly elections.  It's the only hope the Left has, now that the PS has joined the PCF in the political graveyard.

josh

LePen steps down as head of the NF in a gimmicky effort to dye her brown shirt.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39696861?ns_mchannel=social&ns_camp...

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

The "tell" is that it appears to be temporary.  So, no change of attitude, no epiphany and basically, no risk taken at all;  if/when she loses, she can have a re-do and be back at her desk the following Monday.

NorthReport

Maybe Macron should do the same, just for the election, of course. Wink, wink!

Marine Le Pen Is In A Much Deeper Hole Than Trump Ever Was

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/le-pen-is-in-a-much-deeper-hole-tha...

 

NorthReport

French election result shows right-wing populist wave is not sweeping Europe

New political force which was supposed to dominate the continent after Brexit and Trump falters in latest poll

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/marine-le-pen-france-elec...

Cody87

josh wrote:

Polls show that half of Melenchon votes will vote for Macron in the runoff, 3 in 10 will sit it out, and 1 in 5 will vote for LePen.

https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/856539761523122176

 

I would be VERY interested to see how these numbers compare to Bernie supporters relative to Clinton and Trump. They feel about the same to me.

NorthReport

Maybe he has a lot of European stocks to unload. Ha!

The stock market’s jump on the French election is more than a relief rally

 

 

If they do, they’ll get a pro-business reformer—good luck with that in France—but more importantly, a president who would keep France within the EU. That cannot be overstated: France and Germany are the twin pillars of the EU and euro, and if either pulls out, the project would likely collapse. That would be very, very negative for European stock and currency markets and would have ripple effects here, too.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-stock-markets-jump-on-the-french-el...

NorthReport
josh

Cody87 wrote:

josh wrote:

Polls show that half of Melenchon votes will vote for Macron in the runoff, 3 in 10 will sit it out, and 1 in 5 will vote for LePen.

https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/856539761523122176

 

I would be VERY interested to see how these numbers compare to Bernie supporters relative to Clinton and Trump. They feel about the same to me.

More voted for Clinton.  Less than 1 in 10 voted for Trump.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Chirac! Of course, how could I forget. I guess I appreciated the fact that he condemned the invasion of Iraq unlike Tony "the poodle" Blair.

NorthReport

Hopefully Le Pen gets trounced.

 

Marine Le Pen adviser found guilty of inciting hatred against Muslims

Robert Menard said there were too many Muslim children in his city's schools

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/marine-le-pen-adviser-rob...

bekayne

lagatta4 wrote:

Diana Johnstone is full of it. 

And she endorses Le Pen. And paints her as a "patriotic socialist".

http://www.globalresearch.ca/breaking-macron-versus-le-pen-in-run-off-di...

 

NorthReport
NorthReport

French Election Is Facebook’s Fake News Litmus Test​

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-27/france-is-facebook-s-...

NorthReport
NorthReport

Nate Silver is absolutely correct. Nothing has changed. Still in the 60%-40% range in Macron's favour. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_French_presidentia...

 

NorthReport
NorthReport

Who cares what Le Pen says, as she has no chance of winning. Bye, bye!

Macron leads 59% - 41%

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Did we learn nothing in November, 2016?

NorthReport

Yes we learned not to trust Democratic pollsters and supporters.

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France’s dark Nazi history haunts Le Pen’s presidential campaign

Emmanuel Macron visited the site of France’s worst Nazi massacre while the interim leader of Marine Le Pen’s National Front party quit because of alleged remarks questioning the Nazi gas chambers.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/04/28/frances-dark-nazi-history-...

NorthReport

France on extra high alert for May Day as protesters march against Le Pen

Protesters to use 1 May marches to oppose far-right presidential candidate as Front National holds annual gathering

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/30/france-on-extra-high-alert...

voice of the damned

NorthReport wrote:

Who cares what Le Pen says, as she has no chance of winning. Bye, bye!

Macron leads 59% - 41%

That's considerably better than her old man did in his two-way race against Chirac, where he couldn't even break 18%. I'm guessing not being an outright Nazi, plus the emergence of the migrant issue,  and maybe some uplift from the whole Brexit/Trump thing, might be helping Marine this time around.

That said, yeah, I don't see her getting much more than she's getting right now. But no French voters reading this should take that as approval to stay home on election day.

 

NorthReport

votd - Agreed!

josh

45% of Melenchon voters and 35% of Fillon voters abstaining in the second round.

https://mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/859067842192343045

 

NorthReport

In spite of all the nonsense in the media the latest poll out today shows basically no change at 59% to 41% lead for Macron

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