Support rabble | Advertise with us | Contact our staff | About rabble | Log-in or Register for a new account | Corrections | Privacy policy | Newsfeeds | Mailing lists
rabble: Features | Columnists | In Cahoots | Blogs | Books | Photos | What's Up | Polls
babble: Forum Topics | Active Topics
The rpn: Become a Podcaster | Find a Show
rabbleTV: Program Guide | Features | Indie Inside | Best of the net
Copyright © 2001-2012 the authors
Syndicate
You can always read some of my other posts if you need proof of my point of view on Israel-Palestine, remind.
Look it, I could have worded that much stronger than what I did, as I suspected you were attempting to use sarcastic rejoinders, and I should npot have to look at your other posts to see where you are on this. Too serious and too much spin pretending to be other.
...one never really knows around here with the foo bar trolls, ya know.
And I took the opportunity to use it as an instructive lessen for the readership of said foo bars, so they would not waste more of our time putting crap like that of "suicide activists" up.
Now...I am still not sure of what category you fit in, so am still giving you the benefit of doubt that you were being sarcastic and not trying to slip bs Zionist propaganda in..
Who do you think you are?
We already have moderators here; we don't need the Jr. Thought Police as well.
And I took the opportunity to use it as an instructive lessen for the readership of said foo bars...
This bit was funny, though.
http://twocircles.net/2010jun01/german_opposition_party_rips_criminal_israeli_flotilla_attack.html
The head of The Left Gregor Gysi said in a press release that the Israeli military action on the aid ships was "not justified" at all.
According to the Left Party, five Germans were aboard the Marmara, the main passenger boat in the protest flotilla.
A senior official of the party, Christine Buchholz was quoted saying that number included two female German lawmakers, Annette Groth and Inge Hoeger.
A total of 10 German peace activists were reportedly on board the ships when the Israeli assault occurred.
http://www.linksfraktion.de/pressemitteilung.php?artikel=1227107656 (German)
From left beginnings courtesy of Karl Marx, from extreme anti-militarism expressed by August Bebel, from the humanitarianism of Hugo Haase, and the pro-peace foreign policy position of Oskar Lafontaine, Die Linke has - in spite of pro-Israel advocates scattered here and there - come out united against the usual Israeli aggression.
Good. The Irish Parliament didn't do too shabby either...
Ireland-Palestine Support Committee IPSC: MV Rachel Corrie Continues Enroute to Gaza
http://cosmos.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/ipsc/displayRelease.php?release...
"Meanwhile in Dublin this evening, the Dail (Irish Parliament) passed a unanimous motion condemning the Israeli attack on the aid flotilla, calling for the immediate release of all Irish prisoners, the end of the 'illegal Israeli blockade of Gaza' and for the Irish owned vessel the MV Rachel Corrie to continue unhindered on its voyage to Gaza, and allow it to deliver its humanitarian cargo there.
The MV Rachel Corrie continues en route to Gaza with its humanitarian supplies, despite Israel's threat that it 'will also be ready for the Rachel Corrie'. Speaking from Cyprus, Greta Berlin of the Free Gaza Movement who owns the ship, today said:
'We are an initiative to break Israel's blockade of 1.5 Million people in Gaza. Our mission has not changed..'
From the sublime to the ridiculous:
If you haven't already, please tell the evil talkshop in Ottawa that you expect them to ensure the safety of the Canadian activist held by Israel - Kevin Neish. Other suggested actions would be the suspension of diplomatic relations with Israel including the end of the Free Trade and Security Agreements and a demand that the illegal Gaza blockade be removed immediately. And anything else you think belongs. Of course you know as do I that it's pretty much DEADWOOD there, but they are public servants you pay so instruct them as you will:
Action: Speak Out Against Israeli Attack on Humanitarian Ships
http://psnedmonton.ca/2010/05/31/action-speak-out-against-israeli-attack...
CPJME: 'Please take 30 seconds to speak out against Israeli killing of international activists taking aid to Gaza.."
:(
This whole assault reminds me of the protests against the wall. The protester armed with nothing but what they can find lying around the hills (rocks) facing off with a professional modern army who is occupying their land and demolishing their homes, and the army is the one claiming they fired in "self defense"
In this case the well trained army with naval warships, guns, helicopters, stun grenades, tasers and tear gas attacks a boatload of unarmed civilians taking building supplies and medicine to a people who were victims of a war and are suffering and are calling themselves the victims.
no surprise our government can't stop kissing israels cheeks, it gives them fond memories of the "good ole days" of canada's colonial origins. slaughtering the natives and, if necessary, their supporters.
of course mad-dog Israel has done it before...and gotten away with it too...
US Navy Veterans Continue to Seek Justice For Israeli Attack
http://www.truthout.org/us-navy-veterans-continue-seek-justice-israeli-a...
"On June 8, 1967, while sailing in international waters, the US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was attacked by air and naval forces of the state of Israel. Of the Liberty's crew of 294, more than half were killed or wounded. More than 40 years later, survivors are still seeking justice..
The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that the Liberty was an American ship, yet survivors have been forbidden to tell their story under oath to the American public...Joe Meaders was on the Liberty during the attack.."
Turkey is involved whether they want to or not. The Government of the Republic of Ireland is involved. Never mind the Canadian poodle for now. [Edited to add: letters of outrage and contempt for the lack of Canadian government action would, of course, be a good thing.] As Naomi Kline pointed out, our own Government is practically useless on this issue. It is civil society organizations that must lead.
Anyway, I don't think people should allow themselves to get pessimistic. The Israeli military has carried out a terrible atrocity. It's up to civilized people to make the difference now.
You know something has changed when the Tehran Times describes the Israeli regime as "evil incarnate" and you can find nothing wrong with the editorial argument. I've used this expression already - we could be in a Sharpeville Turning Point.
Anyway, if the Turkish government simply backs up their civil society humanitarian ships with a naval escort then the Israelis are screwed. But it is not governments, in the final analysis , that will make the difference.
"A festering pus-filled boil," has a better ring to it, but perhaps I'm quibbling. I'd say the Turkish PM is at least mildly annoyed.
Israel Risks Losing Only Friend in Middle East
Nicaragua Suspends Israeli Ties
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=128726§ionid=351020706
"Nicaragua has suspended its diplomatic ties with Israel in protest of Tel Aviv's deadly attack against an aid convoy. 'Nicaragua suspends from today its diplomatic relations with the government of Israel,' President Daniel Ortega's office said in a statement on Tuesday.."
Hatred of Israel at all time high
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=128680§ionid=351020101
"A top Iranian parliamentarian says the setting up of a committee by the UN Security Council to probe the Israeli raid on the Gaza aid convoy is only aimed at wasting time. Chairman of the Parliament's National Security and Foreign Policy Committee Ala'eddin Boroujerdi also decried the Israeli attack and called on the UN Security Council to send the case to the International Criminal Court.
He further told the Mehr News Agency that the assault on the aid flotilla amounted to 'attacking all countries'. In reaction to the non-binding resolution which came out of an extraordinary UN Security Council meeting and demands the formation of an impartial committee to investigate the Israeli attack, Boroujerdi said the US continues its illogical and unstinting support to the Zionist regime."
Woah there we all know Iran is the evil empire bent on nuclear weapons so they can attack their neighbours with impunity, subjecting different people to double standards and hurting civilians who cast stones with bullets!!...Oh sorry that is what would happen if Iran followed Israels example, they haven't attacked anyone in modern history, but facts like that tend to get in the way of any message coming from any middle eastern country.
From the rabble front page:
Haneen Zoubi said Israeli naval vessels had surrounded the flotilla's flagship, the Mavi Marmara, and fired on it a few minutes before commandos abseiled from a helicopter directly above them.
Terrified passengers had been forced off the deck when water was sprayed at them. She said she was not aware of any provocation or resistance by the passengers, who were all unarmed.
She added that within minutes of the raid beginning, three bodies had been brought to the main room on the upper deck in which she and most other passengers were confined. Two had gunshot wounds to the head, in what she suggested had been executions.
Two other passengers slowly bled to death in the room after Israeli soldiers ignored messages in Hebrew she had held up at the window calling for medical help to save them. She said she saw seven other passengers seriously wounded.
"Israel had days to plan this military operation," she told a press conference in Nazareth. "They wanted many deaths to terrorize us and to send a message that no future aid convoys should try to break the siege of Gaza."
Jonathan Cook
A friend of mine -- not as preoccupied with the history of Israel and Palestine as I am -- asked me why the Israelis soldiers opened fire with deadly force, killing nine and wounding at least 30. Why the over-reaction, even if they were being attacked? Why not fire into the air? Surrender might be a logical response to unexpected resistance -- especially given that the whole operation was illegal and they knew it.
The answer is as simple as it is disturbing. Israeli soldiers are so accustomed to killing Palestinians for the slightest provocation that pulling the trigger is not the last resort -- it is often the first resort. A child throwing a stone, a car-driver not slowing quickly enough, a grandmother and her grandchildren because they turned the wrong way coming out of their house during the invasion of Gaza.
It's not even shoot first ask questions later. It's just shoot first. They rarely have to answer any questions and the killings are investigated, if at all, by the army. This is, after all, a colonial occupying army. It is accustomed to killing unarmed civilians because that is the task it has been assigned by the Israeli political elite.
Murray Dobbin
The two shared similarly thinning hairlines and a certain pudgy middle-aged smugness. They occasionally smiled and guffawed good naturedly, called each other by their first names and one mentioned that "we go back a long way, don't we?" One almost expected them to reminisce about a long lost golf tournament.
But these chummy cohorts were in fact Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Peter Mansbridge, the long time host of CBC's television's flagship nightly news program The National. One was supposed to be interviewing the other, but it played more like an advertorial for the Likud party.
Hadani Ditmars's blog: Peter Mansbridge's Chum Bibi
What's a little disagreement between friends?
Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak spoke to his Turkish counterpart as well as their chief of staff Monday, and they agreed that the raid wouldn't affect weapons deals, defense officials said. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were discussing sensitive military ties.
We already have moderators here; we don't need the Jr. Thought Police as well.
Please do indicate, what you think was in my words that was me being a "thought police", and indeed do explain just where I was being modetorial about it?
... as I have every right to indicate what I did, as it is my personal view, of his words, and I did not tell him to; stop doing, or saying, in the least. or even modify what he said
The sarcastic use of "suicide activists" is really non-productive, as many will not see the sarcastic nature of it, and start the common use of it.
Seriously...think about a public that starts using "suicide activists" in response to the deaths of people. It is a normalization that should not occur, as it will become a thought terminating cliche, where people who hear it, shrug off the lives of activists who were murdered in the struggle for human rights.
It belittles the peoples lives and their actions for which they were murdered.
The sarcastic use of "suicide activists" is really non-productive, as many will not see the sarcastic nature of it, and start the common use of it.
Give people credit for having intelligence. "Suicide activists" is an imaginative way to put this massacre into context, and its use may help show that the everyday murder of Palestinians by the IOF is just that - murder.
I wish our MSM would make an effort to point out the sheer perversity of the blockade similar to what The Economist has done. (graphic courtesy of The Economist). I would like to see the fat talking heads on CBC interview an Israeli apologist and demand a detailed explanation of the justification for every single item that the Israeli's are prohibiting. It becomes so immediately clear that the only justification is to humiliate the inhabitants of Gaza.
[ETA: the link to the Economist snippet]
Give people credit for having intelligence. "Suicide activists" is an imaginative way to put this massacre into context, and its use may help show that the everyday murder of Palestinians by the IOF is just that - murder.
Those who are willing to risk their lives for human rights are brave and honourable. Those willing to murder the innocent in order to maintain their authority are the lowest form of criminals.
Yes, and?
I would like to see the fat talking heads on CBC interview an Israeli apologist and demand a detailed explanation of the justification for every single item that the Israeli's are prohibiting.
Hang on to that dream. If anything, the CBC bobbleheads will ask why Palestinians aren't happy with what crumbs the IOF allows through the blockade.
What's a little disagreement between friends?
Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak spoke to his Turkish counterpart as well as their chief of staff Monday, and they agreed that the raid wouldn't affect weapons deals, defense officials said. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were discussing sensitive military ties.
I think this story has pissed me off more than anything else I've read today.
Probably right AQ, but I would like to think that being exposed to the patent absurdity of the Israeli policy might jar a few of the viewers. I think they have grown immune (through repetition) to scenes of Israeli overkill and are totally able to tune out and dismiss indignant responses to Israeli atrocities... they have become part of the background noise in the media. Rubbing their noses in the patent absurdity of Israeli policies would at least be a way of getting their attention.
al'q, those words do not put anything into context, they do nothing other than diminish what has occured, and is occuring.
...will explain it this way:
People respond to words instinctively and from conditioned perception, and react responsively upon first hearing, or seeing. And the first concept is hard if not impossible to break. That is why it is important to make a good first impression, and of course why Israel wants to get its talking points out before releasing the activists.
So understanding this, let's break down the words and how they impact upon people's minds and conception patterns to see why such a label is bad.
People recoil from the word suicide....it stops all thoughts about the subject, person, or matter at hand, and people want to move on mentally, to something else. But, before they do, their mind has already examined and made judgement, based upon prior knowlege of the word and what it means, and implies.
Suicide is a negative stigma...thus the negative stigma becomes attached to people who commit suicide, or attempt to. In this case, it is the human rights activists who were murdered. As such, using "suicide activist" depicts them, in a negative way, not a positive way.
Think about all the things you immediately have popping into your mind when you hear, or see, the word 'suicide'. How many are positive attributes? None, I would bet. It will be such things like; mentally ill, fanatical, depressed, punishing, and other sorts of negative realities about "suicide". So...these automatic negative, apriori, bits of knowlege attach to the concept of what is being indicated, by the use of the word suicide. In this case, it puts nothing into context, it takes it out of context.
Gazans are being murdered, they are not committing suicide, human rights activists are being murdered, they are not committing suicide. Nor are either mentally ill, or punishing.
Murder does not = suicide in our minds. If we hear suicide, we will not be thinking about murder.
...labelling these activist's murder, as suicide, is very, very wrong, which is why Israel's voices are doing so.
But you are right, it is imaginative. Imaginative for the Israeli propagandists to do so. It shows they know their marketing strategies very well.
Also, our ears are used to hearing words collectively in typical patterns, from the media, and thus we associate mental and emotional response collectives. For example, we are used to hearing "suicide bombers", with alll of its negative connotations, then when we hear propaganda slogans like "suicide activists" we religate them automatically to the equivalent category of 'suicide bombers'.
The use of these types of psychological conditioned responses derived from simple word associations, is why firms like Navigator, and Venture Communications, are so successful.
This is not about brain power and being smart, this is about marketing a concept that people will buy into, even though it is incorrect and obviously not truth.
Some on the left it appears, really needs to start understanding the corporate and business world's use of words, in getting the response they want from the listening and viewing public.
It is how they get people en masse to buy, even when they have no money, or do not need it. Or even when it is destroying the planet.
It is successful too, look at our advertising to consumer driven world for all the evidence you need of how powerful such conceptual word building is in driving the unconscious* mind.
*Use this word in respect to emotional response buying or addiction buying. People buy word concepts, in as much as they buy actual products, or services.
Israeli sabotage suspected
Matan Vilnai, the deputy defence minister, was asked on Israel Radio whether there had not been a smarter alternative to direct assault. He answered that "all possibilities had been considered," adding: "The fact is that there were less than the 10 ships that were due to participate in the flotilla."
The comments appeared to dovetail with reports that two of the vessels malfunctioned at the same time and in the same way. Challenger I and Challenger II, carrying 36 activists, were forced into port in Cyprus on Friday evening when steering systems on both ships broke down on the passage from Heraklion in Crete, a campaign spokeswoman said.
Challenger II also started taking on water after the bilge pump suddenly stopped working and an inspection yesterday revealed "very suspicious" faults, according to Greta Berlin, a spokeswoman for Free Gaza.
An unnamed Israeli Defence Force source who briefed the Knesset's foreign affairs and defence committee on the widely criticised armed interception of the flotilla at sea, also spoke of "grey operations" being mounted against the flotilla. No further detail was reported, probably because of the military censorship rules binding the Israeli media.
Turkey needs the Israeli drones to destroy Kurdish villages. A very symbiotic military relationship. I notice as well there was no mention of the Turks denying Israel the right to use their air space. If the people protesting had been Kurdish the response of the Turkish government might have been different.
I disagree, remind; but then I see irony as a powerful and useful rhetorical device, where you might not.
[snidely reporting]I heard Toronto's Israeli Consul on a radio talk show stating that the flotilla was an Iranian operation based on money they found on board the ship. He also stated that there was absolutely "no humanitarian crisis" in Gaza. [/snidely reporting]
I doubt you'll hear anything but bullshit from Israeli government mouthpieces.
I heard Toronto's Israeli Consul on a radio talk show stating that the flotilla was an Iranian operation based on money they found on board the ship. He also stated that there was absolutely "no humanitarian crisis" in Gaza.
He forgot to add that the metal poles were made in North Korea. As for the humanitarian crisis he meant that there is no crisis in Gaza involving anyone the Israeli government considers to be human. Shooting dogs in a Canadian street would get you a longer sentence than the sentences handed down to IDF soldiers who fire life ammunition at children throwing stones.
I added "snide" tags to my report at post 26.
You may say I am a dreamer.... but
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
You can disagree all you want, it is your right,, however, it does not mean you are correct in your presumption from a marketing of a concept point of view.
Yes, irony can be a powerful and useful rhetorical device, I agree, but its use is limited in the broader public by way of not understanding the irony, or people not getting the "ironical nature of something.
Also, there is nothing "ironical" about the label "suicide activist". It is a negative label and will impact upon the broader publics sensory perceptions as such.
It is all about audience al'q, and if you do not know your audience, no matter how brilliant your words are they will fall on deaf ears.
also want to add
using irony, as a rhetorical device, in respect to dealing with the mass murder of peoples, and the public communications of it, and about it, especially in the initial stages, is sketchy, at best. Indeed it leverages people's death, by murder, into a rhetorical device, and not a actual occuring event that impacts other people's lives and movements.
Like I said, give the audience credit for having some intelligence.
Canada backs U.S. opposition to UN-led flotilla inquiry
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canada-backs-us-opposition-to-un-led-flotilla-inquiry/article1588895/ "Prime Minister Stephen Harper dodged questions in the Commons on whether he supports the Security Council resolution, but a senior government official said in diplomatic circles, Canada is backing the idea Israel should lead the investigation.
"Our position is similar to that of the Americans," said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity.
The stance once again puts Canada in a small club with the United States defending Israel"
Where's the 'hanging my head in shame' emoticon when I need it?
again i will note al'q it is not about intelligence....it is about perceptions and residual impact....first impressions and emotions
suicide is a emotional concept.
No freakin wonder the left does bad at communicating their ideas to the masses.
Where's the 'hanging my head in shame' emoticon when I need it?
Jack Layton! Are you there?
Stevie-boy is lobbing you a great big softball now. Are you going to take a swing?
A Jerusalem Post author describes events as part of an Israeli "losing streak". It's Israel that's hurting. It's Israel that's suffering. Gosh. Can't you see the crocodile tears?!
Anyway, to continue the baseball metaphor ... I would expect Layton to be just as concerned as the Israelis are about their "losing streak". Not wanting to be responsible for another "strike", the NDP leader will try to get on base with a walk. He'd rather get struck out than swing at anything. Even a Harper softball.
Civil society organizations have to lead. Hell will freeze over before these Parliamentary Parties - in government or opposition - do anything more than "bravely" clean their cleats and make like they might take a swing. They're only pretending in order to demobilize opposition to Israeli atrocties.
Like I said, give the audience credit for having some intelligence.
Can you provide any successful examples of ironic slogans or catchphrases? Unless you are marketing to a very precise demographic that sees an issue or product similarily I don't think irony is the way you want to go for mass communication.
Consider the original intent of the term's use and where it appeared. babble is a relatively precise demographic. Moreover, this place is hardly "mass communication."
Obviously, no advertiser or political party is going to use the term "suicide activist" in a promotion. To suggest so is being wilfully obtuse.
Jack Layton! Are you there?
Actually, he is. From the same article:
Israel objects to the idea of a UN investigation, however. Not only is it secretive about its security operations, it views the UN as a body that treats Israel as a punching bag.
Maybe a soft message, but then you have to tread carefully here, because the usual suspects will be crying Focke-Wulf about antisemitism if you don't.
"Our position is similar to that of the Americans," said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity."
how grotesque and in our face they are about it too - this can't go on folks..
Did Israel Deliberately Murder Civilians Aboard Freedom Flotilla?
http://karmalised.com/?p=14083
"the Israeli Ambassador to the United States admits that ships were "too large to stop with non-violent means."..
Watch 'the only democracy in the Middle East' in action towards Palestinian Member of the Knesset, MK Haneen Zoabi
Palestinian Arab MK Haneen Zoabi Viciously Attacked in Israel's Parliament (and vid)
http://www.israeli-occupation.org/2010-06-02/palestinian-arab-mk-haneen-...
The Massacre and the Coverup
http://www.socialistproject.ca/bullet/363.php
"For now, Israel is managing these contradictions to advantageous effect. On the one hand, it maintains the coveted 'freedom of action' for its military forces and, where sought, access to resources; on the other, it is successfully dodging its obligations under international humanitarian law by refusing to accept responsibility for the Palestinian population under its control.
Amazingly, we are now in the midst of an Israeli PR campaign to pass off the trickle of aid the occupation authorities allow into Gaza (paid for by the Palestinians, international agencies or donor states) as evidence of Israeli generosity. And all this without jeopardizing close Israeli bilateral ties with a range of wealthy western allies.
The arrogance of Israeli officials is a function of the apparent international willingness to facilitate these crimes..
Israel's New Initiative: Barbarism and Piracy at Sea
http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2010/06/israels-new-initiative-barbarism-a...
"We are no longer defending Israel. We are now defending the (indefensible) siege, which is itself becoming Israel's Vietnam - another protracted, illegal war. Israel's brazen slaughter constituted a crime of war and against humanity, punishable under international law. Claiming it an act of self-defense is bogus, reprehensible and laughable on its face.."
Who Will Bring Israel To Book Over Flotilla Attack?
http://www.israeli-occupation.org/2010-06-02/daniel-machover-who-will-br...
"If the Israeli boarding of the ships was illegal, then arguably the passengers were entitled to act in self-defense against the invading commandos. If so, they could use reasonable force to defend themselves, the amout of force permitted being determined by Turkish law.
And that is the point: it is clearly Turkish criminal law that can and should predominate from this point on. The Mar Marmara is a Turkish registered ship and was travelling peacefully in international waters when Israeli forces boarded it. At least one of the dead civilians is reportedly a Turkish citizen. The Turkish authorities have the absolute right to assert that their criminal justice system take sole charge of a criminal investigation..
If Israel were to refuse, the UN security council, if concerned about a threat to international peace and security, could then back Turkish and international demands to this effect in a Chapter VII resolution. The question then arises: will Turkey and the international community require Israel to comply with the rule of law on this occassion?"
More details of the bloodshed are coming out as people return; mostly from western activist whom stayed below decks when the fighting started. From the activist side, as of Wednesday, nobody who was on the top deck when the commandos landed as come forward. Those are whom stories I want to hear but I suspect they are among the dead, wounded and currently detained.
None of the dead have been identified by name as of Wednesday as well (as far as I can tell).
Best-selling Scottish writer Iain Banks is boycotting Israel, turning down all future publishing opportunities because of the flotilla raid.
What will Canadian writers do?
A Lone Book in a Concentration Camp
http://arabwomanblues.blogspot.com/2010/06/lone-book-in-concentration-ca...
"An Egyptian doctor that was released yesterday, said, and this was corroborated by other witnesses - the wounded were left to bleed until death, the activists were left with no water, no food, on top of the vessel's deck under the scorching sun..some were tortured while detained, insulted and the Jewish racism was all too obvious--the Westerners were treated better than the Muslims and the Arabs on board..
That Egyptian doctor said when the boat anchored in the Israeli port, there were hundreds of Israeli 'citizens' applauding their army, even applauding the dying wounded...this is the true nature of the Jewish Zionist..make no mistake about it..it's a sick entity..deeply sick, deeply immoral, deeply vile, deeply racist, deeply murderous.."
don't see anyone out picketing chapters indigo......
Jack Layton! Are you there?
Actually, he is. From the same article:
Israel objects to the idea of a UN investigation, however. Not only is it secretive about its security operations, it views the UN as a body that treats Israel as a punching bag.
Maybe a soft message, but then you have to tread carefully here, because the usual suspects will be crying Focke-Wulf about antisemitism if you don't.
Wow, haven't heard this much conviction in a statement since the Cheech and Chong's Evelyn Woodhead Speed Reading Course skit.
That really puts Israel in its place.
It is an interesting comparison to look at what Israel did on the aid floatilla, and what North Korea did in [supposedly] sinking that South Korean ship that was off the coast of Korea[s] in war games. America's reactions are 180o different to the two situations
Which nations get to "defend themselves", and which ones are not allowed to defend themselves?
- Israel claims the incident on the aid floatilla was "self defense". Is Gaza, Palestine, not allowed to defend itself? Why shouldn't they be allowed to import weapons - Israel does it.
Obviously, Israel is at war with Gaza and none of this can be defended except that "all in war is fair". So they should stop trying to frame this as something that can be justified outside of war ethics. This was an act of war, and in legal terms, since it was on a Turkish ship in international waters, it was an act of war against Turkey [as stated in another thread].
I heard somewhere on CBC earlier tonight that Hamas was refusing Israel's handing over of the aid from the seized flotilla. My guess as to why is because Israel is using the seized aid shipments as a propaganda exercise to show how generous they are.
I am surprised that this Israeli asasination squat did not impersonate some Somali pirates, usualy they are pretty good at taking foreign identities. All we can do is send more Gaza relieve ships, preferably Canadian registered, sothat our Canadian politicians have to run around with shades to hide those shifty eyes.
Gaza flotilla: How Israel’s ministry of foreign affairs fakes photos of seized weapons
I heard somewhere on CBC earlier tonight that Hamas was refusing Israel's handing over of the aid from the seized flotilla. My guess as to why is because Israel is using the seized aid shipments as a propaganda exercise to show how generous they are.
If that is all the CBC said, then they are just repeating Israeli propaganda.
From what I've read in other places I've heard:
1) Hamas knew nothing about the shipments.
2) Israel tried to deliver wheelchairs, but had taken out the batteries, and Hamas refused the shipment.
3) Hamas has refused the shipment until all activists are released from Israeli jails.
4) Hamas will only accept the shipments if they're deliver by the activists themselves.
It is hard to know exactly what is happening.
(On a positive note, I had read earlier that Canada sided with the US and Holland in rejecting the UN Human Rights Council independent investigation of the massacre. Turns out it was Italy, not Canada. Perhaps even the Harper government has some shame?).
Looks like world reaction was so intense, even the Obama administration is backing off support of Israel's actions in Gaza. According to the New York Times:
The Obama administration considers Israel’s blockade of Gaza to be untenable and plans to press for another approach to ensure Israel’s security while allowing more supplies into the impoverished Palestinian area, senior American officials said Wednesday.
The officials say that Israel’s deadly attack on a flotilla trying to break the siege and the resulting international condemnation create a new opportunity to push for increased engagement with the Palestinian Authority and a less harsh policy toward Gaza.
“There is no question that we need a new approach to Gaza,” said one official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the policy shift is still in the early stages. He was reflecting a broadly held view in the upper reaches of the administration.
Can Canada's parroting of this line be far behind?
Has Israel Declared War on the International Community?
http://mostlywater.org/has_israel_declared_war_international_community
"As Western citizens we have become accustomed by now to the brutal treatment of Palestinian people by Israeli security forces...What we are not accustomed to in the West however, is to witness the Israeli government blatantly attacking hundreds of nonviolent peace advocates from around the globe. The world has failed to defend the Palestinians for years, but yesterday Israel made a geopolitical turn by declaring war on the citizens of the world.."
Open The Gates: A Rabbinical Response
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2010/gaza010610.html
"In the wake of the Gaza Freedom Flotilla tragedy, we once again feel the need to raise our voices as rabbis in the Jewish community.."
Neturei Karta has a solution to the Middle East Problem
http://www.nkusa.org/activities/statements/20090209.cfm
"The root of the problem: The Palestinians want back the land that was robbed from them in 1948. The Israelis do not want to return it...The existence of a 'Jewish State' is a historical mistake, and it is an injustice that increasing numbers of people are no longer willing to accept...Zionism is not Judaism and Judaism is not Zionism.."
'We Cry And We Pray For The People of Palestine and Gaza' (vid)
http://bellaciao.org/en/spip.php?article19863
From the Sabeel Ecumenical Centre for Liberation Theology's Gaza the Conscience of the World statement:
"In the absence of serious determination from the USA and others to end the illegal Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories (including East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip), we urge men and women ‐ young and old, religious and secular ‐ to use every nonviolent means available to end the siege of Gaza, remove the yoke of occupation and work for the freedom and liberation of Palestine and all its people."
The December release of the Kairos Palestine statement seems to have sparked renewed energy among Palestinian Christians that in turn is giving them greater strength for this latest struggle. I have been thinking a lot this week of the humanitarian groups trapped in Gaza who persist in telling fellow Christians and the world to wake up to the slow motion massacre being inflicted on them.
For me, reading the South African and Palestinian church conversations since the release of the document has been profound, but also very uncomfortable. It is so crystal clear that Canada is a settler state that will always sympathise with other settlers. The utter BS spouted by some of my friends since May 31 is a good reminder for me of just how assimilated by colonialism mainstream "Canada" is. On the other hand, I just got off the phone with a Wabanaki friend who had no trouble seeing Canada's action for what they are. He said "Canada is pursuing Indian policy towards Israel and Palestine, and around the world. This is how we need to see it."
Our Canadian poodle of a government (as someone upstream called it) is never going to support any aspect of the Palestinian's anti-colonial fight and will in fact oppose all who do, regardless of which Tweedledum or Tweededee is in power. I agree with all who feel the NDP and the BQ can and must do more. But I think the tide is turning towards much more serious boycott efforts, and that means actions by each of us individually and in our communities, in the absence of our "leaders" / in the face of opposition from them. As with apartheid South Africa and Indigenous human rights here, we need to leave our so-called and spineless leadership behind and respond to the type of call Sabeel offers above.
I am glad of the conversations I participate in on this board, because they ensure I remain challenged and am also given some creative ideas for responding to that challenge.
The members of the next flotilla, and the next, will be very much on my mind. This kind of so-called "asking for it" action is what is needed to keep the pressure on Israel, but I am worried for their safety and I do feel gutless for staying here.
This just in too:
"On Monday morning, May 31, the Ahavat Olam Synagogue board decided unanimously to join a demonstration in downtown Vancouver protesting the Israeli attack on the unarmed Gaza humanitarian aid flotilla the previous night." http://rebdavid.blogspot.com/
[...]
For me, reading the South African and Palestinian church conversations since the release of the document has been profound, but also very uncomfortable. It is so crystal clear that Canada is a settler state that will always sympathise with other settlers. The utter BS spouted by some of my friends since May 31 is a good reminder for me of just how assimilated by colonialism mainstream "Canada" is. On the other hand, I just got off the phone with a Wabanaki friend who had no trouble seeing Canada's action for what they are. He said "Canada is pursuing Indian policy towards Israel and Palestine, and around the world. This is how we need to see it."
[...]
I wondered why the Irish government was so supportive of its citizens participation in the flotilla, but I guess it is a legacy of their own struggle against colonialism.
Yeah, I was struck by the incredible olive wood carvings I saw at the artists' co-op in Bethlehem-- the personal ones (not the tourist trade pieces) all featured references to Irish history and key events in the South African struggle, linking the Wall as well as Gaza to others' struggles. I needed interpretation from the artists as I didn't understand some of the references to key dates and symbols in the Irish struggle.
While there I gave a pocket booklet of the text of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples to the head of a Palestinian women's NGO. She is a Gazan living in the West Bank and now of course under great risk of deportation from the WB, thanks to renewed IDF military orders. Her reflections on "Arab Israelis" and Palestinians in the context of the Declaration were also profound, and very challenging.
The sense of unity and connection between Peoples' Struggles is so deep, and it scares the living crap out of all Colonizer societies and their "governments".
Sorry, this is prolly thread drift.
Sabotage On The High Seas
http://www.freegaza.org/en/home/56-news/1202-sabotage-on-the-high-sea
"...And sabotage happens with more than deeds. It also happens with words...WE HAVE NO INTENTION OF EVER DOCKING IN ASHDOD"
The truth is starting to trickle out.
Farooq Burney, who was on board the Mavi Marmara ship, also said activists who snatched pistols from the commandos removed the cartridges and threw them away, contradicting Israeli assertions the weapons were used against the boarding party.
Burney, director of a Qatari educational initiative, said the commandos waited more than an hour before treating the wounded, even though activists made a makeshift sign reading: "S.O.S. .. Please provide medical assistance."
More at link
"They were trying to land on the boat. So obviously there was this hand-to-hand combat and during that process the people on the boat were basically able to disarm some of the soldiers because they did have guns with them," he said.
"So they basically took the guns away from them and took the cartridges out and threw them away."
Asked if anyone had used the guns against the Israeli commandos, he said: "No, not at all."
The Day The World Became Gaza
http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2010/06/2010638557492628.html
"Since Israel's invasion and massacre of over 1,400 people in Gaza 18 months ago, dubbed Operation Cast Lead, global civil society movements have stepped up their campaign for justice and solidarity with Palestinians. Governments by contrast carried on with business as usual, maintaining a complicit silence. Israel's lethal attack on the Freedom Flotilla to Gaza may change that, spurring governments to follow the lead of their people and take unprecedented action to check Israel's growing lawlessness
Another Israeli aid flotilla victim speaks.
Sarah Colbourne, from Hackney, east London, who was one of those on board the Mavi Marmara when it was attack, said she had seen one man being shot dead, while she saw another shot in the head. Kevin Ovenden, from Newnham, London, said a man who had pointed a camera at the soldiers was shot dead through the forehead.
Miss Colbourne said: “When I was on the upper deck I saw an injured person being brought to the back of the deck being tended to by a doctor and someone who is trained in first aid. He was shot in the head. It was clear it was not some paint ball. It was a bullet.”
On top of all the indignities and violence heaped upon the flotilla participants, no names of the dead or wounded have been released - almost 4 full days since the attack.
Probably just a further indignity by the Israelis. Most of the dead were probably Muslim Turks, who would have a religious requirement that "the body be ritually washed and draped before burial, which should be as soon as possible after death." The Israelis have done this sort of thing in the past. Hell! They've opened fire on funeral processions for their previous victims.
Anyway, the whole thing is to intimidate further anti-blockade activists, etc. Shooting a cameraman in the face is also a kind of message.
I heard somewhere that 4 of the dead were Turks with no indication where the others were from. All the bodies have now been flown to Turkey. Perhaps the families need to be notified first (which is understandable).
U.S. citizen among those killed in Israeli flotilla raid
excerpt:
The American citizen was identified by the Anatolia news agency as Furkan Dogan, a 19-year-old student. His body had four bullet wounds to the head and one to the chest, the news agency reported.
Israel's Dilemma: The Phony Claim of Self-Defence
http://www.counterpunch.org/hijab06032010.html
"You cannot claim self-defence when you have decided to send a thousand or so well-armed forces to board boats in international waters - vessels that were carefully searched before the voyage to make sure there were no arms. Or when you have killed up to 20 civilians and injured 54 others, while suffering no deaths yourself. If the situation were not so tragic, Israel's spinning would be the stuff of comedy..
The visible crushing of peaceful activists usually has a powerful effect on world public opinion and this time it has pushed governments to take action to hold Israel accountable in a way that armed force has not. This is perhaps the most important contribution that those brave humanitarians have made to the Palestinian quest for justice..
And things will continue to unravel for Israel because it only knows how to use force to get its way.."
The attack on the Mavi Marmara, a rabble exclusive interview with Free Gaza Flotilla activist Kevin Neish
Palestinian children honouring the country of origin of Israel's latest victims.
The coffin of one of the victims of Israeli atrocites.
More over here.
Some very startling allegations in this Turkish article. Apparently some of the video footage of the attack made its way back to Turkey and will be aired sometime soon.
Israel killed more than 9, threw wounded into sea, witnesses say
a photographer, whose first name was Cevdet, was shot in the forehead by a soldier one meter away from him...
“The Mavi Marmara was bombed right in front of our eyes. They threw the wounded into the water,” he said. Köse said the soldiers were upset when some of their men were held by activists aboard the Mavi Marmara...
19-year-old Furkan Doğan was killed by four bullets to the head -- all fired at close range -- and one bullet into his chest,...
four wounded activists were thrown into the sea...
the person who was waving a white flag to surrender was shot by soldiers...
“They even shot those who surrendered. Many of our friends saw this. They told me that there were handcuffed people who were shot.”
All activists stated that Israeli helicopters sprayed cold seawater onto the ship for three hours.
The prisoners were harassed by violent attack dogs and some were badly bitten. She also noted that they were not fed any food or given anything to drink during their initial interrogation on the ship....
Meanwhile, the full list of the names of the nine Turks whose corpses were sent to Turkey and their hometowns were announced as İbrahim Bilgen - Siirt, Ali Haydar Bengi - Diyarbakır, Cevdet Kılıçlar - İstanbul (İHH staff), Çetin Topçuoğlu - Adana (national taekwondo team member), Necdet Yıldırım - Malatya (İHH staff), Furkan Doğan - Kayseri, Fahri Yaldız - Adıyaman, Cengiz Songür - İzmir and Cengiz Akyüz - Hatay. Doğan was only 19. He was killed with four bullets to the head and one to the chest.
What does Israel gain by pissing off most of the entire world?
It doesn't piss off "most of the entire world". It is protected, with money, arms, diplomacy, and power - by those who benefit from its criminal filthy deeds in the region - namely, the U.S., the U.K., various European powers, Canada, etc. It will take a lot more than a few more murders of civilians to change that geopolitical reality.
The pissed off = world -(U.S., the U.K., various European powers, Canada, etc.) = most of the entire world.
Note, that would be the relevant governments, not the populations.
The question was, what is the gain? I am assuming they expect to intimidate people into not doing this again.
That seems to have failed, the Rachel Corrie is still enroute.
The giant question is whether the Turks will follow up with the naval escort. I am not at all sure that will happen.
I suppose that they would think that maintaining the blockade is a gain.
It will be very interesting to see if the Turkish government does anything substantial beyond expressions of diplomacy.
Yes, the Turkish PM did call Israel "a festering boil" ** that "speads hate and emnity" but I figure that's just his inner Pat Martin that he's channelling (or would, if Martin wasn't such a Zionist) . Full of sound and fury signifying ... However, my critical side suggests to me that after the smoke clears ... the Turkish regime will, more or less, cheerfully accept the latest delivery of Israeli attack drones. There's those pesky Kurds that won't die, after all. Business is business.
And the Israelis have shown so much "understanding" when it comes to atrocities of the Turkish regime itself. Yes, if the Israelis can forget about the Armenian genocide then why can't the Turkish regime forget about ... what was that nationality again?
The Turkish people themselves will have something to say, however. As will Palestinian solidarity and the conscience of the world. And I hope it's very, very loud.
_______________________________
** I thought "a festering pus-filled boil" would be an improvement, but no one seemed to agree. Perhaps it's redundant.
I disagree, remind; but then I see irony as a powerful and useful rhetorical device, where you might not.
I'm for the irony. Remind is tiresome and a large part of the reason I don't bother participating.
Yawn.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704875604575280571188117054.html
except there has never been any "attempt to accommodate world opinion" As for 'fatigued and isolated' - it is armed, funded and protected by the most powerful empire the world has ever known. Israel is thriving, has everything it needs and steals whatever it can from its neighbours as well. Far more important to me and many others right now is the survival of Palestine and Gaza, NOT Israel.
just to be clear ... i meant the last sentence disturbed me. threats of pre-emptive strikes and alluding to its nuclear weapons.
Under U.S. pressure, Netanyahu may ease Gaza siege
However, I saw this in the article: On Monday, the day of the raid, Netanyahu asked U.S. President Barack Obama to veto any UN Security Council condemnation of Israel, but Obama refused. He did soften the declaration's wording, but not by as much as Israel would have liked.
Holy sh*t, Netanyahoo has gall!
Incredible interview. Neish was onboard the main ship and describes the Israeli attack and resistance to it. He also describes (in the 2nd part of the interview I think) the treatment of the prisoners after the Israelis gained control of the ship.
I hope he does more interviews with Canadian media, then Canadians would really understand what happened.
Ohhhhh...... am beyond beyond upset, devastated in fact, that my presence here has circumvented you from participating.
I mean, really, one can only wonder what treasures of thought that others here might have missed, that were written by someone who pops into a thread, which is about the worst human rights tragedy in a decade, only to make a personal attack.
Maybe....I will just take myself away, so your wee non-tiresome self can hold reign, Kate.
ETA: still sobbing quietly in the corner
Going to down load the interview later as again it will take all night, but just from the snippets of all the info now coming out, I feel sick to my stomach, right up to my mid-throat.
4 shots to the head, and one to the chest, and throwing wounded overboard????
words are pretty much insignificant at this point.....for me.
Well that was a bolt out of the blue.
The pissed off = world -(U.S., the U.K., various European powers, Canada, etc.) = most of the entire world.
Oh, thanks for the math. I wasn't aware Israel was a pariah state.
The question was, what is the gain? I am assuming they expect to intimidate people into not doing this again.
No, the gain is this: hanging on to the agenda, stopping the growth of any movement for peace and justice inside or outside Israel. Israel and its backers cannot afford any stability in Palestine, nor in neighbouring countries, that might give rise to effective leadership and effective demands for Israel to stop violating international law and engage in meaningful negotiations. Hence the blockade of Gaze, the occupation of the West Bank and Golan and Jerusalem, the constant threats against and occasional invasions of neighbours (and non-neighbours like Iran), the targeted assassinations - everything. In fact, to view this latest act as something uncharacteristically stupid and self-defeating is to ignore similar actions on a somewhat larger scale - the slaughter of Gaza last year, the slaughter of the Lebanese people in 2006, etc. - and never connected with any measurable military or diplomatic gain.
The giant question is whether the Turks will follow up with the naval escort. I am not at all sure that will happen.
Don't worry about the Turks. Israel isn't.
Updated: Arab Member of Israeli Parliament Gets Death Threats on Facebook — Help Shut Down the Page
Some Israelis, who are always totally peaceful, set up a Facebook page calling for the death of the legislator interviewed by Jonathan Cook on our front page.
Please visit, scroll down a bit and on the left side, you’ll find a button to report this page. It’s in Hebrew, but select “direct threat of violence” from the pulldown menu.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/yrwslym/lhwzy-lhwrg-t-hk-hnyn-zwby/121725647863227?__a=18
US Citizen Killed in Gaza Flotilla Raid
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/us-citizen-killed-gaza-flotilla-raid-shot...
Turkey Will Never Forgive Israel
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2010/06/20106312530449379.html
The Kevin Neish interview is eye opening and fascinating. Everyone should listen to it.
It seems Israel is now spinning Turkey as 'evil incarnate':
http://news.antiwar.com/2010/06/03/after-israels-attack-on-aid-ship-turk...
Israelis subdued captain by pointing a gun at a child:
http://gulfnews.com/news/region/palestinian-territories/israelis-subdued...
The Kevin Neish interview is eye opening and fascinating. Everyone should listen to it.
Yep, he pretty much explains the entire conflict through his experience on the ship.
He also comes across as a real Canadian rabble rouser too.
Israel Shoots Gaza Activists Dead
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=128893§ionid=351020204
"We were given the bodies of nine martyrs, but we have a longer list. There are missing people. Our doctors handed over 38 injured, on our return they (the Israelis) said there were only 21 injured.' The UN Human Rights Council adopted a resolution on Wednesday, saying it would set up an independent international probe into Israel's 'outrageous attack' on the six ship convoy. The Tel Aviv regime, which has backed its military's use of lethal force as an act of 'self defense' dismissed the decision, saying the council lacked 'moral authority'. Israeli officials say nine people were killed in Monday's deadly attack, but reports by Palestinian sources put the fatalities at around 20."
Putting Names to the Faces
http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2010/06/putting-names-to-faces.h...
"A brief introduction to nine Turkish people shot dead on 31 May, 2010 by Israeli soldiers"
R.I.P
What Exactly is the Blockade of Gaza?
http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/06/03/what_exactly_is_the_bl...
"In recent days, coverage of the attack on the flotilla headed to the Gaza Strip has focused on the lack of availability of certain humanitarian goods. This fact sheet is a reference tool based on international aid agencies and human rights groups on the impact of the siege on the population of Gaza.."
Brussels Tribunal Petition - Show Your Solidarity With Gaza, Flotilla, Victims and Palestine
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/GazaSol/
Please endorse and pass on to others
Gaza's Gas: 'Leviathan Find Spurts Optimism'
http://www.jpost.com/Business/BusinessNews/Article.aspx?id=177467
"We may be able to supply Europe, E. Asia.."
never forget there's gas in Gaza...
Norman Finkelstein on Flotilla Bloodbath (II) vid
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/finkelstein-on-flotilla-bloodbath-ii/
Finkelstein and Danel Pollack, RT TV
NF wipes floor with DP
A Massacre Is Not A Massacre
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article11313.shtml
"Occupation is not occupation..."
As the death toll mounted Mr Patel used the ship's public address system to call for a surrender. "I spoke in English very calmly and said 'we are only civilians, we surrender' and requested my colleagues to sit down in their chairs, put their hands and legs on the tables and not to make any movement." But, he said: "Despite our repeated calls the firing continued."
Link here
Now for something from the Israeli government press office that is completely fucking disgraceful, ignorant, and racist (Youtube video.)
link here
Actually it is a terrific video. The music and lyrics ought to be captured and dubbed over footage of Israeli atrocities, with full credit to those who produced it, and then redistributed. The video betrays more than anything I can think of the depth of Zionist racism, bigotry, and total lack of human compassion.
Wonderful idea FM .... I may just do that if I have a few minutes free this weekend.
Glick is the same editorialist who advocated charging all 700 flotilla members with "facilitation of t***orism. I didn't realize she was such a bigshot at the paper.
Yeah, I too though she was just some racist blogger ... but then again, where else should I expect for them to recruit their pro-apartheid media cronies?
The Orwellian propaganda spin of the flotilla attack in the media is a microcosm of the spin on the state of Israel's "victimhood" and "self-defense" as it continues its ethnic cleansing of Palestine.
What do you think of the American media coverage of this event?
Here's the thing. I just got off a radio interview. One of the things that distresses me is the extent to which Israel has been successful in, for example, getting Americans to ask questions as to why the passengers on that big Turkish ship attacked the Israeli soldiers.
I said, wait a minute, wait a minute, they were defending the ship against people who were attacking it. You've got it backwards. There are civilians, men and woman, on a Turkish-flagged vessel, in international waters. And here comes a group of heavily armed -- forget the paintball story -- heavily armed guys who are going to take over the ship by force and then take it to Israel, where the passengers don't want to go. And so they pick up deck chairs and other things to fight off these heavily armed -- and by the way, masked -- commandos, and somehow they become the attackers. So, that depresses me a little bit....
http://www.salon.com/news/israel_flotilla_attack/index.html?story=/polit...
More Glick
Israel's Daunting Task:
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=177503
"The ferocity and speed of the current international assault on Israel has left the government in a daze. Statements from our leaders are marked by confusion. This reaction is understandable. Everywhere Israel turns it is met with hostility..."
Yup. Abandoned. Does that mean Israel will not accept the nearly $3 billion in military aid provided by the US?
Does one need read any further than this?
Glick is hilarious and JP used to be a Tubby Black paper too..
Gilad Atzmon on Israeli Collective Madness (RT and vid)
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/gilad-atzmon-on-israeli-collective-madne...
"Gilad Atzmon a British writer and musician who was born in Israel and served in the Israeli army, believes that the raid will lead the world to see what Israel is all about...'They are convinced that the more people they kill, the more people will be deterred to jeopardise what they regard as their security.."
UN orders Israel to lift Gaza blockade
I wonder why the UN boss thinks Israel will comply this time?
UN orders Israel to lift Gaza blockade
I wonder why the UN boss thinks Israel will comply this time?
Why because of the great respect they have for "international law" .. you know, the same "international law" they claim as a validation for attacking aid ships in international waters.
More Glick
Israel's Daunting Task:
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=177503
"The ferocity and speed of the current international assault on Israel has left the government in a daze. Statements from our leaders are marked by confusion. This reaction is understandable. Everywhere Israel turns it is met with hostility..."
There is a wonderfully written article by Ira Chernus on AlterNet that addresses the psychology of Glick.
The other side in the Israeli debate within the government takes a very different approach. Why bother even thinking about the world’s response, they ask. The world hates us anyway. Nothing we do now can make the gentiles hate us more. Since we are surrounded by eternal enemies, let’s forget about world opinion. The only way to insure our survival is to maintain our strength and dominance -- by any means necessary.
more of the same exploration
Letter from Israel: The Flotilla in the Israeli Press
http://www.countercurrents.org/cohen040610.htm
"How can you turn millions of fairly educated citizens into silent lambs or worse into supporters of their own state's terrorism...?"
....
There is a wonderfully written article by Ira Chernus on AlterNet that addresses the psychology of Glick.
The other side in the Israeli debate within the government takes a very different approach. Why bother even thinking about the world’s response, they ask. The world hates us anyway. Nothing we do now can make the gentiles hate us more. Since we are surrounded by eternal enemies, let’s forget about world opinion. The only way to insure our survival is to maintain our strength and dominance -- by any means necessary.
To concur with that observation would be to suggest these hawks are really concerned with "survival" rather than the obvious agenda: imperial annexation and expansion. Chernus's description is not born out by any examination of history.
It's true that Israel is largely unconcerned with the opinion the bulk of the world's nations, but that is from a position of power, not fear for survival.
This unconcern for public opinion obviously does not extend to Israel's enabler states, (those nations whose monetary and political support are essential to enable Israel's crimes--eg., the US, Canada, and much of the West.) For these states a propaganda tsunami is generated by Israel and its western media supporters which leaves most people, at best, confused, or likely to sympathize with Israel.
For a summary of Israel's very great concern with public opinion in enabler states see Glenn Greenwald:
How Israeli propaganda shaped U.S. media coverage of the flotilla attack
It was clear from the moment news of the flotilla attack emerged that Israel was taking extreme steps to suppress all evidence about what happened other than its own official version....
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/06/04/israel
I found the following information on the BBC website:
Legality Of Convoy Raid
Does anyone know how accurate this information is?
Webgear, Israel has far more resources than you do when it comes to justifying their bloodthirsty actions.
But, if you're intent on figuring it out yourself, why not do the research and let us know the verdict.
Dead Gaza activists shot at close range and riddled with bullets: autopsy results released.
Israel was tonight under pressure to allow an independent inquiry into its assault on the Gaza aid flotilla after autopsy results on the bodies of those killed, obtained by the Guardian, revealed they were peppered with 9mm bullets, many fired at close range.
Nine Turkish men on board the Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times and five were killed by gunshot wounds to the head, according to the vice-chairman of the Turkish council of forensic medicine, which carried out the autopsies for the Turkish ministry of justice today.
Unionist, you are right. I will research the Law of the Sea and start a thread tomorrow with my findings.
If Israel comes to genuinely fear for its survival, things could get very bad indeed. For instance, consider this rather disturbing claim. Can't vouch for its accuracy, but it's consistent with some of what Chomsky says in Fatal Triangle:
This came in a press interview broadcast by the seventh Hebrew radio and was translated on Wednesday into Arabic by the press information analysis and study center.
"We have hundreds of nuclear warheads and missiles that can reach different targets in the heart of the European continent, including beyond the borders of Rome, the Italian capital," Creveld said, adding that most of the European capitals would become preferred targets for the Israeli air force.
The Israeli historian reiterated Israel's ability to destroy the whole world whenever it felt its existence would be doomed to extinction.
As for the Palestinians, the historian said that Israel at the present time pursues a specific strategy based on mass deportation of the Palestinian people and has intentions to expel all Palestinians without exception, but it is awaiting the right moment to take this step.
I was pondering a somewhat similar idea today. If it looked like Israel was going to be overrun, I wonder if they'd hit Mecca with a cobalt bomb; this would make the city and surroundings lethally radioactive for decades, effectively turning the Hajj into a suicide mission. But maybe I shouldn't be giving them ideas...
Apparently the conspiracy sites are bursting at the seams.
Closing, continue here.