Greece #3

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MegB
Greece #3

Continued from here.

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Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
He had wanted to enact his “triptych” of measures earlier in the week, when the ECB first forced Greek banks to shut.

The banks didn't have to (effectively) close because the ECB ordered it.  They simply didn't hand over any munnee.

If anything "forced" Greece to close its banks, it was Greece's own choice to hold a referendum.  That understandably made the populace a bit skittish, and a bank run would have been inevitable if they hadn't limited withdrawals and transfers. 

But it was Syriza's brinksmanship in the form of a referendum that they subsequently ignored that forced them to close the banks.  Only until after the referendum, though -- remember that?  And of course when daily life gets even more miserable and commerce starts to grind to a halt, the clock started ticking.  Greece went from having to get out of the handcuffs and straightjacket, to having to get out of the handcuffs and straightjacket underwater.

Sean in Ottawa

To answer Josh in the previous thread.

Who are we really to declare the Greek government to be a sellout when many Greeks do not think so?

Did you read the article in Sherpa-Finns' post? Are you really dismissing all written there?

 

Sean in Ottawa

Here is what Leo Panitch said (he is in Greece at the moment:

Did those who are already raising Lenin from his tomb to render quick judgement on Syriza’s abject “world-historic defeat” (without saying much about what victory would look like or require) actually bother to read the rather similar plans that Syriza put forward before the referendum and that were consistently rejected by the EU and IMF “Institutions”? This rejection is what the referendum was about.

The resounding OXI was then used by Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras to secure the resignation of the leading political representative of the domestic ruling class (and former Prime Minister), Antonis Samaras, and to get all the party leaders with any such claim or ambitions to speak for that class to adopt Syriza’s position on the need for debt restructuring and investment funds. One might even say that if there was a class crossover involved here it was the other way around, one that looks more like what Gramsci meant by a hegemonic strategy rather than the way it is presented from the perspective of those standing on Lenin’s Tomb.

The virtually same formulations in Syriza’s plans that were just yesterday called intransigence by mainstream media in Greece and aped by the media abroad are now presented as capitulation in order to disguise the significance of this. This is not surprising but what is surprising is the immediate acceptance of this capitulation interpretation by so much of the Western radical left from whom one might have expected a rather more sophisticated reading and less quick rush to negative judgement. Of course, the latter view is shared by many on the radical left here in Greece, including those Syriza MPs who opposed or abstained on the vote in the Greek parliament. But in doing this, they only raise the question of whether the Antarsya strategy of Grexit (which obtained less than 1 per cent of the vote in January) is any more viable today than it was then.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

The bootlicking betrayal of the Greek people, compliments of fake socialists, real liberals, and other frauds.

john Pilger wrote:
The leaders of Syriza are revolutionaries of a kind – but their revolution is the perverse, familiar appropriation of social democratic and parliamentary movements by liberals groomed to comply with neo-liberal drivel and a social engineering whose authentic face is that of Wolfgang Schauble, Germany’s finance minister, an imperial thug. Like the Labour Party in Britain and its equivalents among those former social democratic parties still describing themselves as “liberal” or even “left”,  Syriza is the product of an affluent, highly privileged, educated middle class, “schooled in postmodernism”, as Alex Lantier wrote.

For them, class is the unmentionable, let alone an enduring struggle, regardless of the reality of the lives of most human beings. Syriza’s luminaries are well-groomed; they lead not the resistance that ordinary people crave, as the Greek electorate has so bravely demonstrated, but “better terms” of a venal status quo that corrals and punishes the poor. When merged with “identity politics” and its insidious distractions, the consequence is not resistance, but subservience. “Mainstream” political life in Britain exemplifies this.

This is not inevitable, a done deal, if we wake up from the long, postmodern coma and reject the myths and deceptions of those who claim to represent us, and fight.

Pilger, bang on as usual, exposing the shit-bags masquerading as liberators.

The Problem of Greece is not only a Tragedy, it is a lie.

NDPP

'Greece Brought A Latte To A Gunfight'

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/07/greece-brought-a-latte-to-a-gunfi...

"...Yanis [Varoufakis] appears to have assumed he could grasp the European light on the hill and persuade with elegant reason all of Europe to embrace enlightened super-national consciousness. He's been genteely sipping lattes at a gunfight and by doing so has played right into realist German hands by destroying his counry's economy as an example to all other European 'dead-beats.'

There is nothing new here. Yanis has simply been outplayed. When it was elected, Syriza either had to sign up to new terms of austerity or immediately leave the euro. Its stylish five month congress with Europe has ruined its economy to no purpose of its own given it will either now buckle under to even deeper austerity or will still be forced out of the euro, taking its economy from wrecked to destroyed.

By misreading power politics from the outset, Syriza has allowed Greece to be turned into an open-necked sacrificial goat gutted to keep the rest of Europe bowed to German will.

And so, by burning its political capital with Brussels over 5 months of polished debate, convincing the Greek people of the righteousness of their cause of staying in the Euro but paying no German price for doing so, and then, flipping to outright panic as their banking system collapsed, Greece has destroyed itself so that Germany can rule the zone."

josh

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Here is what Leo Panitch said (he is in Greece at the moment:

Did those who are already raising Lenin from his tomb to render quick judgement on Syriza’s abject “world-historic defeat” (without saying much about what victory would look like or require) actually bother to read the rather similar plans that Syriza put forward before the referendum and that were consistently rejected by the EU and IMF “Institutions”? This rejection is what the referendum was about.

The resounding OXI was then used by Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras to secure the resignation of the leading political representative of the domestic ruling class (and former Prime Minister), Antonis Samaras, and to get all the party leaders with any such claim or ambitions to speak for that class to adopt Syriza’s position on the need for debt restructuring and investment funds. One might even say that if there was a class crossover involved here it was the other way around, one that looks more like what Gramsci meant by a hegemonic strategy rather than the way it is presented from the perspective of those standing on Lenin’s Tomb.

The virtually same formulations in Syriza’s plans that were just yesterday called intransigence by mainstream media in Greece and aped by the media abroad are now presented as capitulation in order to disguise the significance of this. This is not surprising but what is surprising is the immediate acceptance of this capitulation interpretation by so much of the Western radical left from whom one might have expected a rather more sophisticated reading and less quick rush to negative judgement. Of course, the latter view is shared by many on the radical left here in Greece, including those Syriza MPs who opposed or abstained on the vote in the Greek parliament. But in doing this, they only raise the question of whether the Antarsya strategy of Grexit (which obtained less than 1 per cent of the vote in January) is any more viable today than it was then.

Was written 3 days ago. Before Tsipras signed an agreement much worse than his capitulation offer.

josh

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

To answer Josh in the previous thread.

Who are we really to declare the Greek government to be a sellout when many Greeks do not think so?

Did you read the article in Sherpa-Finns' post? Are you really dismissing all written there?

 

You're right. Who are we to have opinions.

NDPP

Greece Has Made No Preparation For A Grexit

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/07/greece-has-made-no-preparation-fo...

"...It's 'close to criminal' not to have considered it [Grexit] when European leaders told the Greek government before the election that they regarded an 'Oxi' vote as tantamount to leaving the Eurozone and the ECB stopped increasing the ELA. The ECB has the means to force a de facto Grexit and top European officials were saying with a united voice that they were prepared to go that far.

With pharmaceutical supplies, particularly critical ones like insulin running short, lives are already at risk. Greece is not self-sufficient in food. Calorie consumption in Greece has already fallen by 30% since austerity started. What happens when Athens, one of the densest cities in the world, begins to run short?

A Grexit [unprepared for], will be a disastrous, inexcusable failure of leadership. Many people, virtually all of the wrong ones, will pay for it.

 

Tentative Deal Strips Greece of Sovereignty, Makes Debt Relief Dependent on Compliance

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/07/tentative-deal-strips-greece-of-s...

"The cost of Greece avoiding a Grexit is submitting to become an economic serf of the Eurozone, subject to even more draconian austerity than was ever on the table before. This deal is simply vicious.

This is far and away the most one-sided agreement I've ever seen. What should Greeks do now? In a literary flourish, we titled a late May post 'The Persecution and Assassination of the People of Greece as Performed by the Inmates of the Troika, Under the Direction of the Eurogroup. We lacked the imagination to see, that it was to turn out to be a literal description.

This will be a date that will live in infamy."

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
And how come Kenysians weren't thrown under the bus in that sanctimonious piece as well. Guess it would knock down the Marxist strawman.

Are Keynsians lighting up Twitter with their howls of outrage and moans of disappointment at this latest "betrayal"?

Because I think that's what the author was getting at.  The radical left everywhere has just exposed a new traitor, and will be summoning the tumbrel.  Whether they live in Greece or not.

Quote:
Who are we really to declare the Greek government to be a sellout when many Greeks do not think so?

WE.  ARE.  BABBLE.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

The Greek government knew very well that they needed a plan B different from the Jenghiz Khan like austerity that the public voted down just days ago. This plan B should have been in the works the day after they were elected last January.

There was no plan B. Not now, not ever. It was a lie from start to finish.

sherpa-finn

And why was there no Plan B? Because Plan B would of necessity been predicated upon a withdrawal from the Euro, - a step which was hugely opposed by the vast majority of Greeks. 

To even float such a scenario would have been a political non-starter for Syriza. (Remember that whole democracy thing?)

josh

sherpa-finn wrote:

And why was there no Plan B? Because Plan B would of necessity been predicated upon a withdrawal from the Euro, - a step which was hugely opposed by the vast majority of Greeks. 

To even float such a scenario would have been a political non-starter for Syriza. (Remember that whole democracy thing?)

As I pointed out in the other thread, Varoufakis offered a third alternative, which was shot down by Tsipras.

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2015/07/exclusive-yanis-varouf...

And yeah, the whole democracy thing, like the fraudulent referendum, that Tsipras wanted to lose while saying he wanted to win, and whose results he promptly ignored.

NorthReport

Tsipras has managed to keep Greece in the Euro which apparently is what most Greeks wanted, so his measures will probably be supported in Parliament. 

Greece debt crisis: Greeks brace for unrest as Alexis Tsipras prepares to push through cuts

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greece-debt-crisis-live-g...

josh

NorthReport wrote:

Tsipras has managed to keep Greece in the Euro which apparently is what most Greeks wanted, so his measures will probably be supported in Parliament.

Greece debt crisis: Greeks brace for unrest as Alexis Tsipras prepares to push through cuts

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greece-debt-crisis-live-g...

Oh there's no question he'll get it through because the center right parties he defeated in January will support it.

NorthReport

The right-wing is very upset with him, so Tsipras must be doing something correct.  Laughing

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Greek Public Sector Union ADEDY Calls For 24-Hour Strike Against New Bailout Deal

The Greek Public Sector Union (ADEDY) urged citizens working in the country’s public sector to stage a 24-hour strike on Wednesday and express their opposition to the new 86-billion-euro bailout deal Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras agreed on Monday morning with the country’s creditors.

Being the first strike under the six-month-old Tsipras administration, the initiative will be followed by a demonstration in front of the Greek Parliament later on the same day....

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
The right-wing is very upset with him, so Tsipras must be doing something correct.

I'm sure the right wing is like the left wing:  reflexively upset with anything they didn't do.

NorthReport

The right's upset that he dared challenge the system.

And the left, well you can always count on the left to turn on themselves, which is probably why the right-wing usually win more elections.  

mark_alfred

Are Greeks not upset with him?  I mean they just voted no to an austerity laced bailout package to get an even more extreme austerity laced bailout package mere days later, didn't they?  I can't imagine people being too happy with that.

josh

mark_alfred wrote:

Are Greeks not upset with him?  I mean they just voted no to an austerity laced bailout package to get an even more extreme austerity laced bailout package mere days later, didn't they?  I can't imagine people being too happy with that.

Unless they're impressed by Alice in Wonderland style of governing.

NDPP

What challenge? He delivered Greece up to them like dinner.

As for the right, the only ones that count. They're fine:

 

Washington Welcomes Greece's Deal with Creditors

http://dlvr.it/BWDlrm

"The United States welcomed the agreement between Greece and its international creditors on Monday with US Treasury Secretary Jack Lew saying the deal was good for the global economy.

'The deal reached is 'in the best interests of Greece, Europe and the global economy,' he said."

NDPP

#ThisIsACoup: Greeks React with Fury

http://dailym.ai/1GHeWek

"Many Greeks are furious at Tsipras reluctantly accepting even tougher reforms than those categorically rejected by citizens at last week's bailout referendum.

Haralanbos Roulskos, a 60 year old economist who was out walking in Athens, described the deal as 'misery, humilitation and slavery.'

Some diplomats questioned whether it as feasible to rush the package through the Greek parliament in just 3 days.

Tsipras is set to sack ministers who did not support his negotiating position and make dissident lawmakers in his Syriza party resign their seats, people close to the government said."

 This is class war.

 

sherpa-finn

And if anyone here doesn't believe that the Left is going to hell in a handbasket, well - please note that NDPP has just quoted and linked above to an article in the Daily Mail Online - probably Britain's nastiest little right wing rag.

That seals it: all hope is lost, comrades.

Sean in Ottawa

josh wrote:
Sean in Ottawa wrote:

To answer Josh in the previous thread.

Who are we really to declare the Greek government to be a sellout when many Greeks do not think so?

Did you read the article in Sherpa-Finns' post? Are you really dismissing all written there?

 

You're right. Who are we to have opinions.

You miss the point-- who are we to dismiss theirs with such confidence while screaming that we know best?

Who are we to tell them they should jump into the abyss when their people do not want to do so.

Brachina

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
And how come Kenysians weren't thrown under the bus in that sanctimonious piece as well. Guess it would knock down the Marxist strawman.

Are Keynsians lighting up Twitter with their howls of outrage and moans of disappointment at this latest "betrayal"?

Because I think that's what the author was getting at.  The radical left everywhere has just exposed a new traitor, and will be summoning the tumbrel.  Whether they live in Greece or not.

Quote:
Who are we really to declare the Greek government to be a sellout when many Greeks do not think so?

WE.  ARE.  BABBLE.

 Do I come across as one who is a member of the radical left to you? I support the NDP's small business tax cut plan and tax cuts for new hires. I've public said positove things about Libertarian Lauren Southern. I think Workers Paradise is an.oxymoron, communism is as interesting an idea as watch grass grow, ect...

 And I think this shit has gone way too far, that was is being done to Greece is pure evil and that the Prime Minister of Greece is a coward.

 And its not just me, even an editorial at the Globe and Mail that right wing rag, is saying don't blame Greece, blame Berlin. Seriously this editorial is a must read, and I've never said that about a Globe and Mail ever. Read it. Germany may have crushed the Greeks under they're heels and killed democracy in that country, but they've effectively broken the rest of Europe as well and put an end to the lie that the EU is an alliance of equals, because its been established that Germany can kick anyone they wish out of the Euro, they can blackmail and bully the French even, Germany rules Europe now unchallenged by anyone. The Fourth Reich has prevailed, the Furor Merkel and her so called social democract lap dog of a finance minister, who maybe even worse then she is has taken over Europe, they've succeeded where Hilter failed. Adoph Hilter must be smiling somewhere in some hell, he dreams for a Europe ruled by Germany have been come true.

BRF

The Greek Syriza government and its front line leaders have played the part of quislings. However, the Greek people voted to reject further austerity measures  for themselves  and will not like the infrastructure the worked si hard to build going to the banking class and entourage for pennies on the dollar. I see bloody revolt in the near future as Greece is lowered to third world status.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Do I come across as one who is a member of the radical left to you? I support the NDP's small business tax cut plan and tax cuts for new hires. I've public said positove things about Libertarian Lauren Southern. I think Workers Paradise is an.oxymoron, communism is as interesting an idea as watch grass grow, ect...

If I say "vegans probably won't enjoy my tripe stew", and you don't enjoy my tripe stew, that doesn't mean that you must be a vegan.

Quote:
The Fourth Reich has prevailed, the Furor Merkel and her so called social democract lap dog of a finance minister, who maybe even worse then she is has taken over Europe, they've succeeded where Hilter failed. Adoph Hilter must be smiling somewhere in some hell, he dreams for a Europe ruled by Germany have been come true.

How's the view from over the top?

Can you see Frau Merkel's concentration camps from up there?

NDPP

TRNN: Is Greece's New Debt Deal Worse Than Plans Rejected By Referendum? (and vid)

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&I...

"University of Athens' Creston Davis argues that the Syriza party platform looks more like the Democratic Party in the '60s...'The overall impression is defeat, honestly. Straightforward defeat. Syriza looks ridiculous..."

 

NO To 'EU Colony'!: Tsipras Faces Opposition (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/273292-greece-deal-opposition-tsipras/

"Returning to Athens on Monday with a new deal for a bailout package that would keep Greece in the eurozone, Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras is facing strong opposition to the agreement with his own government, as well as protests in the streets.

The radical Left Platform, a faction of Tsipras's ruling Syriza party, called the deal a 'humiliation of Greece,' FT reported on Monday. Hundreds of protesters turned out to decry the agreement reached by Eurogroup members and the Greek PM on Monday, demonstrating their outrage by burning a Syriza flag outside the Hellenic Parliament in central Athens.

Infuriated by the possibility of new austerity measures, protesters carried posters that read 'Agreement Equals Submission For the People And Humilitation For The Left,' and 'NO To The Robbers of the EU, ECB, IMF And Their Local Collaborators,' among others..."

 

Greek Oxi-Moron: When Bailout Means Servitude  -  by Patrick Young

http://rt.com/op-edge/273319-greece-bailout-austerity/

"The political message is clear. The undemocratic EU Empire is the most vindictive of bedfellows. Tsipras has been crushed like a starling beneath the tracks of a tank. Regardless of the Greek electorate, Greece is now ruled by Brussels.

Tsipras, a lively young fellow, will return to Athens with a deal which redefines Pyrrhic. Greece is bust already; this deal only enshrines a path to Euro-serfdom..."

Doug Woodard

With Europe behind it, Greece is being pushed into further peril:

http://gu.com/p/4atqt/sbl

 

Doug Woodard

Golden Dawn will be strengthened by worse austerity, Yanis Varoufakis warns:

http://gu.com/p/4aje7/sbl

 

 

KenS

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Who are we really to declare the Greek government to be a sellout when many Greeks do not think so?

I think you are premature to say that Sean. An effective majority of Greeks may actually think it is a sellout they would rather take the risks of rejecting.

And even if it isnt a majority.... thats what politics is about. And Tsipras is the leader of what is AT A MINIMUM a huge block of Greeks who wanted and still want to ditch dictated austerity that was "required" by bailing out foreign banks, NOT by Greece's historic problems with corruption and tax dodging. Bas as those were, they didnt produce a deficit that needing bailing out.

Tsipras was the leader of a movement- he is not just the Prime Minister, now obliged to stick his finger in the air and deduce what the majority of Greeks SEEM to want. If he leads to what turns out what most Greeks think is too risky, THEN he can resign as PM.... not quit the struggle because MAYBE greeks wont follow him there.

That said. I'm not there, and it is difficult to follow.... including knowing the true range and scope of Greek opinion. It COULD be that Tsipras and Co really know that Grreks just are not willing to go where they would need to if this were refused. But I dont buy your acceptance that this must be the case.

KenS

And I will say there that there is every reason to suspect the Betrayal Narrative of armchair leftists outside Greece. For myself, it is in spite of them/you that I really woner about the Syryza leadership.

 

KenS

I'd like to see an update from Leo Panitch, something he has written Friday or later.

RDP

Ultimately, when you need someone else's money to survive, someone else holds the cards.  The citizens of the EU should hold a referendum on Greece with this question: Do you agree to send more of your money to Greece?  

josh

KenS wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Who are we really to declare the Greek government to be a sellout when many Greeks do not think so?

I think you are premature to say that Sean. An effective majority of Greeks may actually think it is a sellout they would rather take the risks of rejecting.

And even if it isnt a majority.... thats what politics is about. And Tsipras is the leader of what is AT A MINIMUM a huge block of Greeks who wanted and still want to ditch dictated austerity that was "required" by bailing out foreign banks, NOT by Greece's historic problems with corruption and tax dodging. Bas as those were, they didnt produce a deficit that needing bailing out.

Tsipras was the leader of a movement- he is not just the Prime Minister, now obliged to stick his finger in the air and deduce what the majority of Greeks SEEM to want. If he leads to what turns out what most Greeks think is too risky, THEN he can resign as PM.... not quit the struggle because MAYBE greeks wont follow him there.

That said. I'm not there, and it is difficult to follow.... including knowing the true range and scope of Greek opinion. It COULD be that Tsipras and Co really know that Grreks just are not willing to go where they would need to if this were refused. But I dont buy your acceptance that this must be the case.

This is a deal New Democracy could easily accept. And the type of deal Syriza ran against in the election. A complete about face, and yet some people now want to act as though the election, and the referendum, never happened. But that opinion polling should be the measuring stick.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

 ..here is discusion re the polling.

#ThisIsACoup

quote:

LASCARIS: They have a choice. It's not a particularly palatable choice, the choice being a withdrawal from the Eurozone. And it's not palatable for two reasons. First being that that requires an immense amount of preparation. And even in the best of circumstances that is a process that requires many months to be executed competently in a way that doesn't cause significant damage to the economy. And all the reports that I've seen and all the indications that I've seen is that Syriza, the leadership, not the left platform but the leadership, is completely invested in maintaining, remaining with the Eurozone. So much so that no meaningful, practical preparations have been made for the possibility of a Grexit. That increases the potential harm to the economy and the people of Greece should that avenue be pursued.

The other is the political obstacle to a Grexit. And Michael touched upon this. There--Michael mentioned that the Greek people don't seem to be ready for this. From my perspective, that's not so clear. And I say that for several reasons. First of all, the polls which are frequently cited as evidence the Greek people don't want to leave the Eurozone, many of them if not almost all of them have been conducted by media organizations or commissioned by media organizations in Greece that are controlled by the oligarchy. And the polling in Greece has performed very poorly.

I think the referendum is an excellent example of this. Michael indicated that the most optimistic prediction from a poll vis-a-vis the no vote was a ten point margin of victory. The margin of victory was 24 points at the end of the day. That's a huge discrepancy, given the number of polls that were performed. As I say, that was the one that predicted the largest margin of victory. Others showed that there was going to be a vote--the difference of the vote was going to be two or three percentage points. Some were even predicting a yes victory. And yet you had this massive discrepancy between the no vote and the yes vote. How could they all have gotten it that wrong?

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..includes links to facebook organizing pages

Call for solidarity to Greek people against the coup, all over the world. Wednesday, everywhere, at 19:00

A call to solidarity action on Wednesday, everywhere, at 19:00
Athens, Greece * London, United Kingdom * Leeds, United Kingdom * Liverpool, United Kingdom *Bristol, United Kingdom *Manchester, United Kingdom * Belfast, Northern Ireland *Duns, Scotland * Berlin, Germany * Koblenz, Germany * Napels, Italy *Padua, Italy * Paris, France *Lisbon, Portugal *Barcelona, Spain *Graz, Austria * Vienna, Austria * Sofia, Bulgaria *Prague, Czech Republic *Belgrade, Serbia *Skopje, Macedonia * Ljubljana, Slovenia *Chicago, USA *Baltimore, USA *Oakland, USA *Los Angeles, USA *Buffalo, USA *Brantford, Ontario *Montreal, Canada * Sydney, Australia * Tel Aviv, Israel

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Tsipras’ next battle: Government majority and rebels in his own party

After having survived the brutal Euro Summit in Brussels, Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras is facing another cruel battle today: to secure a government majority in the Parliament. With some 30-32 lawmakers of his own party openly denouncing the Brussels agreement, Tsipras most possibly will see today that the seats of SYRIZA will decrease from 149 to 119.

Although the party statute dictates that SYRIZA MPs will have to return their seat to the party if they resign, Lafazanis’ Left Platform let the PM know on Monday, that they do not intend to return their seats but to form their own party and stay in the Parliament.

In a joint statement the Left Platform described the Brussels agreement as “the worst deal possible one that maintains the country’s status: a debt colony under a German-lead European Union.”...

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Greek Energy Minister Lafazanis: ‘Greek PM Needs to Take Back The Agreement’

Greek Energy Minister Panagiotis Lafazanis called on the government and the Greek Prime Minister to take back the agreement, before any final decisions are made by the parliament, in a written statement.

“Greece had an alternative to the agreement. The creditors’ dilemma: capitulation or destruction is fake, it aims to terrorize and has caused the collapse of popular consciousness,” he wrote.

“The agreement signed with the institutions is unacceptable and a radical party, such as SYRIZA, does not deserve to be responsible for bringing such an agreement, after fighting to abolish the bailout programs and austerity measures.

The so-called partners and most of all the German government, treated our country as their colony and as nothing but brutal blackmailers and “financial assassins.”...

takeitslowly

More of them should resign.

josh

takeitslowly wrote:

More of them should resign.

Leaving the party and forming a new one would be better.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture
epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

The Alternative to Austerity- the statement submitted by the Left Platform at the meeting of Syriza’s parliamentary group.

The following is an abridged version of the statement submitted by the Left Platform at today’s plenary meeting of Syriza’s parliamentary group. 10/7/15 signed by Stathis Leoutsakos, Antonis Ntavanellos, Sofi Papadogianni, Costas Lapavitsas, Thanasis Petrakos

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

The Greek left responds

quote:

There is a call from the Federation of Public Sector Unions for a general strike on Wednesday, before the parliamentary vote on the new memorandum. This is an opportunity to build a fightback out of a setback. The initiative has come from the anti-capitalist left.

The political earthquake that annihilated New Democracy and Pasok in January is taking its time to be felt at the top of the sclerotic trade union bureaucracy. META – Syriza’s trade union fraction – and the radical left have grown in influence in the unions. But the old leaderships remain.

In a meeting on Monday, raging argument from speakers of the radical left from the floor butted up against a line of cantankerous old-man bureaucrats who would occasionally lose their temper. When it became clear that the left was going to win the vote – with the begrudging support of the Communist Party and Pasok – the activists started filing out, back to work to organise or to union meetings across the city....

quote:

The other side of the struggle is the debate going on at every level in Syriza. Two members of the Red Network, the left in the party’s Left Platform, on Saturday morning voted against a new memorandum. They gave a clear lead to every Syriza MP and to the party rank and file who are looking for an alternative.

As I write, the parliamentary fraction of the Left Platform is meeting to discuss the betrayal on which they must pass judgement on Wednesday. It is much worse than what they either voted for, spoke against or abstained from on Saturday. Their stance on Saturday fell well short of what was required. But opposition has hardened since then and most, if not all, are expected to vote against Tsipras’s deal. The question is how many will Tsipras lose from the Party Majority....

josh

But short-term pain should not blind us to long-term reality. The euro is an economic mistake. Germany and Greece are different nations with different fiscal policy — and different languages, cultures, and politics. Why would one monetary policy work for both?

If Greece had its own currency it would have been able to deal with the Great Recession and its current crisis through devaluation, making its exports more competitive, and through looser monetary policy than the European Central Bank enacted. It can’t do either because it is stuck in the euro zone.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/07/13/why-greece-sh...

takeitslowly

But the Greek people want to be able to take money out of their banks, the situation is very complex. Syriza might have betrayed their supporters and need to be destroyed. However, the Greek population as a whole might be okay with the deal as long as they can keep delaying ..

36 percent voted for Syriza, that means the rest didn't. Tisprias is not a leader, he made the situation worse by holding the referendum. Its pathetic that he is the leader..sad for the people. He has done much damages to the left in Greeks and probably in Spain and elsewhere. He failed badly in every way. It will be even more difficult for anyone to take anti-austerity forces seriously because of this spectacular failure

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

 A Soft Coup in Greece (1/2)

Nantina Vgontzas says the deal was a capitulation but the left is not defeated

Brachina

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Do I come across as one who is a member of the radical left to you? I support the NDP's small business tax cut plan and tax cuts for new hires. I've public said positove things about Libertarian Lauren Southern. I think Workers Paradise is an.oxymoron, communism is as interesting an idea as watch grass grow, ect...

If I say "vegans probably won't enjoy my tripe stew", and you don't enjoy my tripe stew, that doesn't mean that you must be a vegan.

Quote:
The Fourth Reich has prevailed, the Furor Merkel and her so called social democract lap dog of a finance minister, who maybe even worse then she is has taken over Europe, they've succeeded where Hilter failed. Adoph Hilter must be smiling somewhere in some hell, he dreams for a Europe ruled by Germany have been come true.

How's the view from over the top?

Can you see Frau Merkel's concentration camps from up there?

 I never mentioned concentration camps, this isn't about genocide, its about Germany's conquest of Europe, which is a sickening success.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

I'm glad your hyperbole has a limit.

RDP

"I never mentioned concentration camps, this isn't about genocide, its about Germany's conquest of Europe, which is a sickening success."   This is about Greece borrowing money from German and other European Union nations, not paying it back, and asking for more, and the EU nations saying no or only under these conditions.  The poorer EU nations are the most adamant in refusing Greece money.  Their position is that they are subsidizing the Greeks who have a higher standard of living.

The lender always has the moral option to not lend - especially if they question the ability to repay.

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