Head of International Monetary Fund Arrested for Sex Attack 2

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NDPP
Head of International Monetary Fund Arrested for Sex Attack 2
NDPP

The American Police State Strides Forward  -  by Paul Craig Roberts

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28122.htm

"...Strauss Kahn was the first IMF director in my lifetime, if memory serves, who disavowed the traditional IMF policy of imposing on the poor and ordinary people the cost of bailing out Wall Street and the Western Banks. Strauss-Kahn said that regulation had to be reimposed on the greed-driven, fraud-prone financial sector, which, unregulated, destroyed the lives of ordinary people..

Perhaps the most dangerous black mark in Strauss-Khan's book is that he was far ahead of America's French puppet, President Sarkoxy in the upcoming French elections.."

Could Canada's Carney Be Tapped to Head IMF?

http://www.thespec.com/news/canada/article/534285--could-canada-s-carney...

"Prime Minister Harper thinks Mark Carney is a wonderful central banker - others think so too. The Bank of Canada governor who was named by Time magazine as one of the world's most influential men is being taken seriously in international circles as a possible replacement for disgraced International Monetary Fund head Dominique Strauss-Kahn.."

NDPP

Strauss-Kahn Quits

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1388447/Dominique-Strauss-Kahn-q...

"...Head of the IMF Dominique Strauss-Kahn sensationally quit his post today, amid claims that he paid an infamous brothel madam $2,500 for escort girls.."

Fidel

NDPP wrote:

Strauss-Kahn Quits

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1388447/Dominique-Strauss-Kahn-q...

Meanwhile calls for the 62-year-old to step down as head of the powerful International Monetary Fund, intensified with U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner saying Strauss-Kahn 'is obviously not in a position to run' the agency.

And who is Tim Geithner? He's a Wall Street insider with revolving door access to the halls of power in Washington and previously a convenor of the President's Working Group on Financial markets sometimes referred to as The Plunge Protection Team by its critics. They are Democrats, Republicans, Bilderbergers, central planners, "masters of the universe" and Wall Street bankster king pins delivering on socialism for superrich and powerful people. Whatever they say goes when it comes to expanding massive social programs for rich and powerful people. These are some of the people on the right who will ensure that the bad old days of laissez-faire capitalism never return. I supose we can at least be thankful for that. Meanwhile the financial pillaging and looting of Rome continues from within.

Ghislaine

NDPP - the information clearinghouse article posted in post #1 is extremely offensive and anti-feminist.

An excerpt :

 

Quote:

In the  spun story, Strauss-Kahn is portrayed as so deprived of sex that he attempted to rape a hotel maid. Anyone who ever served on the staff of a powerful public figure knows that this is unlikely. On a senator's staff on which I served, there were two aides whose job was to make certain that no woman, with the exception of his wife, was ever alone with the senator. This was done to protect the senator both from female power groupies, who lust after celebrities and powerful men, and from women sent by a rival on missions to compromise an opponent.  A powerful man such as Strauss-Kahn would not have been starved for women, and as a multi-millionaire he could certainly afford to make his own discreet arrangements.

...

Unless the hotel maid has a spell of bad conscience and admits she was paid to lie, or gets cold feet about perjuring herself, Strauss-Kahn is likely to find that Amerikan criminal justice (sic) is organized to produce conviction regardless of innocence or guilt.


What a load of BS! This guy is just so irressitable to us swooning women that he could NEVER Ever rape someone! Not when we are all lined up begging to be with him!
And oh yes....everyone accused of rape is convicted in the US! It is just so easy to get a man convicted of rape.
This is just so completely offensive.
The alleged victim is saying that she had no idea who DSK was until after reporting the alleged attack to the police.
[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/18/dominique-strauss-kahn-maid] DSK maid feels alone in the world [/url]:
Quote:

Shapiro said his client arrived in the US seven years ago from Guinea under "very difficult circumstances,", and lives in the city with her daughter.

The 32-year-old maid told authorities that she thought the suite was empty but that Strauss-Kahn emerged from the bathroom naked, chased her down a hallway, pulled her into a bedroom and dragged her into a bathroom, police said.

He allegedly forced her to perform oral sex, according to a court complaint. She broke free, escaped the room and told hotel staffers what had happened, authorities said. She was treated at a hospital for minor injuries.

 

 

Obviously DSK should be innocent until proven guilty, however the alleged victim should be treated with respect as well - especially given all we (should) know from feminist analysis about men in power, rape and how difficult it is to report rape, go through a trial, etc.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Thanks, Ghislaine. This thread and its precursor were badly in need of some feminist analysis. Your post is much welcomed. That disgusting article even quotes Henry Kissinger to buttress its point that DSK is irresistible. What utter crap.

Fidel

Why can't DSK be both guilty of rape and represent a threat to hundreds of European banksters and financial crooks?  I realize this is no time to mention possible innocence of the accused, but sometimes straightforward logic can be useful before calling in the executioner. 

6079_Smith_W

Fidel wrote:

Why can't DSK be both guilty of rape and represent a threat to hundreds of European banksters and financial crooks?  I realize this is no time to mention possible innocence of the accused, but sometimes straightforward logic can be useful before calling in the executioner. 

The problem is not that this very famous man has a life outside of this sexual assault charge. Nor that we shouldn't be concerned about the rest of his life.

Its just that those other things aren't relevant, or certainly shouldn't be the focus of attention. 

The real focus of this thread - the charge, the alleged victim, and the accused - is being all but ignored by political junkies who are far more interested in the effect it will have on his other exploits. Or worse - casting doubt on the validity of the charge and the reputation of the alleged victim,  and questioning how they might fit into conspiracy theories to bring down the accused, who for some reason is being made the centre of attention here.

So Fidel... I know it is tempting, and obviously this has a bearing on DSK's work. But it is important and respectful to keep this in its proper perspective.

 

MegB

Catchfire wrote:

Thanks, Ghislaine. This thread and its precursor were badly in need of some feminist analysis. Your post is much welcomed. That disgusting article even quotes Henry Kissinger to buttress its point that DSK is irresistible. What utter crap.

Ditto - thanks Ghislaine!  That article is a pile of shite.

Fidel

Perspective? I guess it all depends on who the jurors are. I think they are chosen by random selection in New York. And you have random babblers posting here in various threads similarly. And I agree in that I believe there really are biased opinions being posted here.

I resent your insinuation that I lack empathy for the alleged victim.

6079_Smith_W wrote:
Its just that those other things aren't relevant, or certainly shouldn't be the focus of attention.

And why is that? Do you not believe in the basic human right to a fair trial? I should remind you that this is a left wing forum that is teeming with support for basic human rights in general.

They keep pushing the fact that the alleged victim is from Guinea. So is an Exxon Oil-friendly dictator still there in Guinea, a poverty-stricken hellhole of country in Africa where western corporations are shaking them down for natural resource wealth. Dollars to donuts that never gets a mention.

6079_Smith_W

Fidel, please. I'm not accusing, or trying to put you on the spot.

You posed a question, and I addressed it. And  among the worst things I am referring to is the article (in the last thread) which refers to the assault as a being "caught in a honey pot" and the author saying he doesn't know whether the alleged victim is telling the truth or not. 

Of course I know we would not even be talking about this arrest if it were not for the reputation of the accused. And I know any discussion of this is going to touch on his political and financial dealings.

But as with the discussion of Julian Assange a few months ago, I think it is important to keep respect for the gravity of the charges, for the alleged victim, and for how sexual assault is often trivialized or twisted when other issues are involved.

Fidel

I agree it's important not to attack the victim's integrity. But what about the people speaking for her who keep reminding everyone of where she comes from and just how poor she would have been had she remained in Guinea? My god what a racist thing to be pointing out - that she is a poor black woman, as if poor black women from Africa are incapable of the same human behaviours white people might also be. I'd fire those guys off the job PDQ.

500_Apples

The right is extremely good at generating weaknesses in the left.

They have recognized that the left believes in giving rape accusers the benefit of the doubt, which is a good philosophy. They've turned it on its head. So now whenever they need to take somebody out, they just trot out rape accusations, which is actually the resurrection of an ancient political strategy. Dominique Strauss-Kahn, Julian Assange, and Muammar Ghadaffi's forces have all been accused of rape in the past year, it is very difficult to take seriously.

A while back, there were claims that Ghadaffi was giving his troops Viagra so that they could better rape women and more easily win the war. This was what I wrote on the subject:

**********

The claim from diplomats is that the Ghadaffi regime is giving viagra to the troops to facilitate them in the task of raping and thus terrorizing the population. I think this is kind of interesting.

First, let's just say that the use of rape allegations in war propaganda goes back at least several hundred years. This was detailed quite heavily in, for example, The Terror Dream, written by American liberal feminist Susan Faludi, which I review elsewhere . Summarizing, the US white men used to be told, back in the frontier days, of "Indians" raping white women, and this would motivate them to go kill Indians and take their land. We all remember the Jessica Lynch story as well, the attractive blonde American solder who surrendered to enemy forces in Iraq. The media claimed she had been raped by Arab men. When she later said she was treated adequately and that there was no sexual assault, the media argued she was suffering from "repressed memories". There is also the British war propaganda in the Sepoy mutiny: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_rape#Indian_Rebellion . More recently, we all saw the total spectacle of Wikileaks founder Julian Assange being accused of sex crimes by two women in Sweden. The show trial is ongoing.

There is absolutely nothing unusual, as such, about claims in a time of war that the evil enemy is using rape as a weapon. I do think the Viagra perturbation to the claim is weird though. Among other things, It doesn't actually make any sense. Libyan army soldiers are no doubt men in their 20s, 30s, maybe 40s; unless there are major environmental-chemical problems in Libya I'm not aware of, they don't need Viagra. The claim that Ghadaffi is buying expensive blue pills en bulk from Pfizer to facilitate terrorism against the population should sound nonsensical to anybody who is awake and paying attention.

What I suspect (hope?), is that the propaganda campaign for this war in general has been a huge and total failure and they're desperate to get it going somehow, to better demonize Ghadaffi and his evil regime to have a more focused war effort. By adding in the titillating detail that Viagra is being used, it is more likely to be picked up by a media and a blogosphere that may otherwise be less interested. There was acutally a previous claim of rape in this conflict, of Ghadaffi solders violating a women named Eman al-Obeidi. Webster Tarpley pointed out in one his commentaries that her name implies she is ethnically from one of the ruling tribes of Northeast Libya, and as such her claim has the same propaganda effect as claims of white women being raped by colored men in previous historical episodes. That claim has not caught on very well in the western media, but it may have been big in Libya.

Just to be clear, I'm not making claim that sexual humiliation is not used as a war weapon. It is definitely used as a war weapon. We've seen the photographs, for example, of American soldier Lyndie England pointing her finger at the penises of dozens of Arab men stripped naked in one of the Iraq concentration camps, I think it was Abu Ghraib.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Or, you know, these powerful, entitled men could actually be guilty of rape. 

Déjà Vu

 

Quote:
Indeed, like everyone charged with a crime, DSK is innocent until proven guilty, but can’t the French political and journalistic elite focus for two minutes on the crime of which he is accused? Say what you like about handcuffs and perp walks, they really don’t compare with a violent sex attack. It’s a little scandalous that all these so-called socialists not only think this powerful man deserves special treatment before the law but also have not one word to say about the woman, a 32-year-old Guinean immigrant and single mother, except to imply that she’s a lying slut.

And maybe part of a political plot. Frantically spinning for DSK, as he did for his other dear friend Roman Polanski, philosopher turned pundit Bernard-Henri Lévy found it very suspicious that the woman entered his room alone: “I do not know—but, on the other hand, it would be nice to know, and without delay—how a chambermaid could have walked in alone, contrary to the habitual practice of most of New York’s grand hotels of sending a ‘cleaning brigade’ of two people [untrue], into the room of one of the most closely watched figures on the planet.” No presumption of innocence for the “chambermaid,” apparently. When all else fails, there’s the old standby, wheeled out whenever a famous or powerful man is accused of rape: why would he rape when women were lining up to have sex with him? “A seducer yes, a rapist no,” said DSK biographer Michel Taubmann. Like he would know....

But of course DSK’s predatory behavior was always common knowledge, the stuff of jokes, gossip and veiled allusions in the press. It was just called something else: seduction, love of women, even, proof of good health. It took a powerless outsider in a foreign country—the housekeeper had no idea that DSK, as one of the world’s most powerful men, was entitled to make violent use of her body—to take action. Now DSK’s defense attorney is saying the sex, if it took place, was consensual. Because nothing is more likely than that a housekeeper—a Muslim widow in a headscarf, no less—will leap at the chance to fellate a 62-year-old hotel guest who springs naked out of the bathroom.

 

Fidel

Yes it's entirely possible that DSK is guilty of sexual assault.

And at the same time, it's true that DSK was advising banksters on redistribution of national incomes. What they wanted from DSK was to tell them it's perfectly alright to continue on their merry way ripping off the working class and poor to the tune of many billions of dollars every year. It really is an issue of privilege among connected and powerful white men.

A coincidental and yet compelling reason why DSK also happens to not to be very popular among the masters of the universe(supprrich and powerful white men of privilege);

The Telegraph wrote:
"Dominique Strauss-Kahn, managing director of the International Monetary Fund, has called for a new world currency that would challenge the dominance of the dollar ...

What wild coincidence it is that DSK is both an alleged rapist and viewed to be attacking the imperial currency at the exact same point in time. What are the odds?

Ghislaine

Fidel, in case you aren't aware it is NOT JUST RIGHT WING MEN WHO RAPE. Leftists (and it is still unclear whether this guy really is a leftist) rape as well. People who take political action we may agree with sexual assault women. It is pervasive. (Many of us have personal experience of this - with men we formerly admired and trusted). To say "oh, well he must have been set up because he was taking action on issues we agree with!" is completely offensive and contrary to everything feminist know about sexual assault.

The victim-blaming going on is atrocious.

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:

The victim-blaming going on is atrocious.

 

How does it compare with the Assange case?

DaveW

with Clinton, only in the case of Kathleen Willey was there any accusation of force; that was in the White House, so no police nearby;

but with Strauss-Kahn, very comparable in many ways, several women are coming forward now who said he twisted their arms, at least figuratively, from a position of superiority in the hierarchy; even the Hungarian economist at IMF whose relationship was deemed "consensual", now says not really ...

DSK clearly abusive over a long period

Ghislaine

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/20/business/20fund.html?_r=1&partner=MYWA... Women at IMF Find Themselves Vulnerable [/url]:

 

Quote:

 

In 2007, officials at the fund declined to investigate a complaint by an administrative assistant who had slept with her supervisor, and who charged that he had given her poor performance reviews to pressure her to continue the relationship. Officials told the woman that the supervisor planned to retire soon, and therefore there was no point in investigating the charges, according to findings by the I.M.F.'s internal court.

The official, who is not named in the records, told investigators that he also had a sexual relationship with a second employee, and that he did not believe he had acted improperly.

In another case, a young woman who has since left the I.M.F. said that in 2009, a senior manager in her department started sending her increasingly explicit e-mails seeking a relationship. She complained to her boss, who did not take any action.

"They said they took it seriously, but two minutes later they were turning around and acting like everything was O.K. to the person who had done it to me," said the woman, who spoke on condition of anonymity because she still works in the international development community. "He wasn't punished. Not at all."

 

NDPP

IMF, Dominique Strauss-Kahn: The French Believe It's A Plot

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24857

"...here is a review of the most substantial articles in the French Press.."

Regime Change At The IMF: The Frame Up of DSK?  - by Michel Chussodovsky

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24866

"...in the Eurozone monetary system as well as Wall Street's resolve to exert a decisive influence on the European monetary architecture is also at stake.."

 

 

6079_Smith_W

Snert wrote:

Quote:

The victim-blaming going on is atrocious.

 

How does it compare with the Assange case?

When you remove the Great Man from the equation and go back to how the charges came to be laid It is disturbingly similar. But really, this one is crazy enough without  dragging that one into it. And I think that one got talked to death already. 

Open Hand

As a feminist and a socialist I find many of these comments quite offensive.  If the accused had been a right wing capitalist what would Rabblers have said?  DSK is, of course, innocent until proven guilty, so those who say he was set up or a victim of some conspiracy by international bankers are presuming his innocence.  And what does that then say about the working class victim?  Some people wonder why he would do such a thing and place his entire career in jeopardy.  Why?  Because he, like so many men in power (left and right and in between) feel they can get away with it.  Surrounded by fawning fans to whom they can do no wrong they have no moral compass.  I am also disturbed by those who question why he would rape a woman when he could have his pick of so many others, which perpetuates the myth that rape is about sexual desire when it is always about power, control and violence.  Personally, I applaud the woman for coming forward and even the Hotel which took immediate action to protect its employee.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Thank you Open Hand! Your words are much appreciated and needed.

Fidel

Ghislaine wrote:
Fidel, in case you aren't aware it is NOT JUST RIGHT WING MEN WHO RAPE.

I was entirely unaware of that. Thanks for setting me straight. I'll think twice about saying these things from now on.

JanetHudgins JanetHudgins's picture

We need to ensure that this woman has a legal team equal to his, to see it through successfully and support her until she recovers so that others know they will be protected until all these abuses surface to face the law and the public. These old men, who are (and not incidentally) disgusting to young women, have been doing this with impunity because historically the old boys and even some women have moved in to protect them as if it were a chartered right. Well, lets start a new history, to protect women. And shame on us if we don't.

500_Apples

Catchfire wrote:

Or, you know, these powerful, entitled men could actually be guilty of rape. 

It's a basic historical fact that rape accusations have been used as a propaganda tactic for thousands of years. To reiterate over some examples, the British did it in the Sepoy mutiny in India, the Americans did it against Natives when they wanted to motivate white men to go commit genocide, the Europeans are currrently doing it against Ghadaffi's forces, et cetera.

Perhaps you don't believe that truth is the first victim of war, or that we live in a world where the imperialist powers will stop at nothing to maintain their vampiric grip on power. Character assassination is part of the toolbox. You've seen made-up character assassinations so many times, so why fall for it?

Your position on this issue is unilateral disarmament against a very powerful CIA/MI6/Interpol tactic. They will keep removing left-wing figures from positions of influence throughout North America and Europe, and if people like you fall for it every time, there will eventually be nothing left (even less than right now), facilitating the ongoing transition to fascism.

******

I also suspect that the more frequent use of rape accusations to engage in character assassination has a dual purpose. Aside from destroying the careers of troublesome-to-imperialism individuals such as DSK and Julian Assange, it comes off as ludicrous in the eyes of the general public and will serve to further reduce the legitimacy of women in the general public who get raped.

Freedom 55

[url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/21/us-strausskahn-feminists-idUST... women attack misogyny in Strauss-Kahn case[/url]

Quote:
We do not know what happened in New York Saturday May 14, but we know what has been happening in France in the past week. We are witnessing a sudden rise of sexist and reactionary reflexes, so quick to surface among part of the French elite.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

500_Apples wrote:

Catchfire wrote:

Or, you know, these powerful, entitled men could actually be guilty of rape. 

 

It's a basic historical fact that rape accusations have been used as a propaganda tactic for thousands of years. To reiterate over some examples, the British did it in the Sepoy mutiny in India, the Americans did it against Natives when they wanted to motivate white men to go commit genocide, the Europeans are currrently doing it against Ghadaffi's forces, et cetera.

Perhaps you don't believe that truth is the first victim of war, or that we live in a world where the imperialist powers will stop at nothing to maintain their vampiric grip on power. Character assassination is part of the toolbox. You've seen made-up character assassinations so many times, so why fall for it?

Your position on this issue is unilateral disarmament against a very powerful CIA/MI6/Interpol tactic. They will keep removing left-wing figures from positions of influence throughout North America and Europe, and if people like you fall for it every time, there will eventually be nothing left (even less than right now), facilitating the ongoing transition to fascism.

******

I also suspect that the more frequent use of rape accusations to engage in character assassination has a dual purpose. Aside from destroying the careers of troublesome-to-imperialism individuals such as DSK and Julian Assange, it comes off as ludicrous in the eyes of the general public and will serve to further reduce the legitimacy of women in the general public who get raped.

 

Oh bullshit, I'd believe the maid before I'd believe any of your conspiracy BS. Sorry.

DaveW

yes

Tommy_Paine

You know, this conspiracy theory stuff about Struass Kahn offers up no evidence, just questions.   And, believe it or don't, unanswered questions are not evidence. 

A chain of unanswered questions and suppositions.  Even if they all hung together, one link after another, it's still not evidence.  But even as that, there is no chain.

The idea that Strauss Kahn is some kind of socialist, that he was changing the IMF from within, or from the top, or challenging the banking system cannot be evidentially supported.  In fact, as the statement from DSK himself on the Irish bailout package indicates, he is a full blown capitalist, making sure those in the banks and those bondholders are sure to face no consequence for their crapulance, and to face absolutely no reduction of income or status.  

Meanwhile the workers and poor of the Republic of Ireland are paying and paying, taking wage cuts, cuts to social programs and cuts to basic services.

 This canard about DSK being a socialist or being someone the bankers or those in power wanted rid of is nonesense on stilts.  As Pauli would say, it's not even wrong.

As I have stated before, like anyone else Dominique Strauss Kahn is innocent until proven guilty.  But if we are to entertain the question on what we think is the likelyhood of him being a rapist, or being the victim of a conspiracy, it is far removed from reason to put any wieght on the victim explanation.

Fidel

Tommy_Paine wrote:
The idea that Strauss Kahn is some kind of socialist, that he was changing the IMF from within, or from the top, or challenging the banking system cannot be evidentially supported.

[url=http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/10/markets/dollar/index.htm]IMF calls for dollar alternative[/url] February

Tommy_Paine wrote:
In fact, as the statement from DSK himself on the Irish bailout package indicates, he is a full blown capitalist, making sure those in the banks and those bondholders are sure to face no consequence for their crapulance, and to face absolutely no reduction of income or status.

That's true. DSK was heading the IMF at the same time the IMF recommended neoliberal austerity measures economic "shock therapy" for a number of countries where the people are now rebelling.

But apparently the IMF, a bureaucratic organization more than the private banksters themselves largely benefiting from US dollar imperialism, DSK has also talked about replacing the US dollar's dominance with SDR, a type of Bancor recommended by JM Keynes after the war. Keynes talked about the importance of financial disarmament and preventing any one country from living parasitically off the backs of other other countries first world or developing status, like the USA has done ever since then.

So I think three things are possible:

1. DSK could be a rapist

2. DSK was a powerful and privileged white person and still is somewhat even after this fall from grace

3. DSK also happened to be head of an IMF organization that was trying to "torpedo the dollar" as Mike Whitney wrote.

Some babblers have said themselves, it's not always black and white.

European banks are basically bankrupt. US banks and 30 some-odd states are essentially bankrupt. Neoliberal ideology itself is essentially bankrupt. Now the infighting begins between Euros and dollar representatives. This is no time to be talking about undermining the USA's dominance in global currency markets. Because China and BRIC countries are doing it for them already.

So, I don't think the infighting is between European socialists and political conservatives in the US.

The battle is between political conservatives trying to save not the western banking system - they were saved some time ago - but between political conservatives in the IMF trying to save the western monetary system and US and British fascists trying to deliberately  sabotage it. Sabotaging economies is what fascists do as a rule since the 1930s in paving the way for fascism.

Sineed

500_Apples wrote:

It's a basic historical fact that rape accusations have been used as a propaganda tactic for thousands of years.

But is this "historical fact" a literal truth?  The sexual assault of women has been systemically under-recognized or not even acknowledged as rape for millennia.  These "false accusations" may in fact have been allegations of real behaviour that were swept under the rug or attributed to political enemies.

And yeah; the head of the IMF is vetted by the world's top money-based sociopaths.  The notion that DSK, the man of $6000 suits and $3000/night hotel rooms, was somehow speaking truth to power is beyond laughable.

NDPP

The Strauss Kahn Affair: It's Now Make or Break Time For the IMF

http://21stcenturywire.com/2011/05/20/the-strauss-kahn-affair-its-make-o...

"...Strauss-Kahn was likely failing in the  real key mission of the IMF, but his sudden disappearance creates huge risks of the game plan becoming known...The only solution for Strauss-Kahn and whoever succeeds him is to invent a new global money. This was the real mission of 'DSK'..."

6079_Smith_W

I know it often seems like ducking the issue when politicians or other figures say they can't comment on something because it is before the courts (and indeed sometimes they are ducking). 

But there is also some wisdom to it. A case like this is (and likewise, the investigation against Julian Assange) are two examples where it is probably a good idea to just resist the urge, and stay completely away from the case itself until we know what the facts are.

I don't know if it is that people are so used to TV and fiction that they just assume that everything has to fit together even though it might be completely unrelated. And the problem with any case involving a public figure is that the temptation is always to fit it together around HIS life, and the alleged victim is either ignored, treated as some pawn, or accused of being an attacker. 

Likewise the sentiment that the legalities of this case aren't so important, and the assumption that the main thing is that he wind up behind bars because his political crimes are what he should really be punished for. As I said before, if it is okay to bend the law to get your enemy, it can eventually come back to bite you too.

I don't mean to say that we shouldn't talk at all about cases, or that sometimes (as with the Assange case) there may not be those who seek to manipulate the legal process.

But when that discussion extends to bending the law, or treating the alleged victim as either a minor player in someone else's game, or with outright suspicion when there is absolutely no evidence to that effect (as Tommy_Paine rightly pointed out) it becomes a real problem - and very disrespectful.

And that disrespect, and the tendency to resort to it,  is far greater in matters of sexual assault and violence against women.

Because I am certain this case - not the IMF or French  politics -  is the most central and very painful thing for the alleged victim, and in all likelhood this has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the perpetrator's professional life, There is certainly no evidence of it.

If we can't discuss Mr, Strauss-Kahn's fortunes without keeping that in its proper perspective we should probably not be talking about this at all. And we should probably change the title of the thread to reflect what it is really about. 

Besides, the real world isn't always as neat and tidy as TV. Julius Rosemberg may have been the victim of a show trial, but as was revealed a few years ago, he was also almost certainly guilty as charged (and Ethel was probably innocent).

 

 

 

Fidel

6079_Smith_W wrote:
If we can't discuss Mr, Strauss-Kahn's fortunes without keeping that in its proper perspective we should probably not be talking about this at all. And we should probably change the title of the thread to reflect what it is really about.

As for DSK, my opinion of him is a line from a cold war era scary movie about hundreds of rats trained to kill on command entitled, Willard: Tear him up!

6079_Smith_W wrote:
Besides, the real world isn't always as neat and tidy as TV. Julius Rosemberg may have been the victim of a show trial, but as was revealed a few years ago, he was also almost certainly guilty as charged...

Oh really? Cold warriors didn't execute the Rosenbergs for no reason at all other than as a propaganda aid for instilling mass fear and paranoia in the American public? Maintaining a sense of fear and mass hysteria among the US population had nothing to do with it? He was guilty as charged by a kangaroo court?

6079_Smith_W

As I said.... 

He was the victim of a show trial. And I agree with your assessment of it.

But those who assumed he was innocent, and that he was framed, are probably mistaken. It may have seemed the likeliest conclusion because the whole process was railroaded by the U.S. government. But the truth is not always so cut and dried.

Fidel

You said he was guilty as charged. I was just curious as to what "...he was also almost certainly guilty as charged...", means. What new evidence is there?

6079_Smith_W

In 2008, Morton Sobell, who was convicted with the Rosenbergs, admitted that he and Julius were spies, and that Ethel probably knew about it but was not involved. 

Might he be lying? perhaps. But given his age (91) and the time that had passed there is a fair chance he was telling the truth. After all, I would think there is more reason for him to clear the air than smear a couple of dead people and perpetuate the lies of the cold war.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/12/nyregion/12spy.html

 

 

genstrike

Strauss-Kahn Screws Africa

Quote:

Since taking over the IMF in 2007, erstwhile "Socialist" Strauss-Kahn has tightened the screws in an attempt to maintain the free-market finance mania that ruined this planet in the first place.

 

This conspiracy-mongering and victim-blaming here on rabble is pathetic.  Not only is it sad in and of itself, but DSK doesn't really fit the archetype of the crusader for social justice taken down in a conspiracy by dark forces.  DSK was the head of the IMF, an organization which vigorously advances the wishes of global capital.

People on here need to ask themselves if they are defending this right-wing asshat in a $3000 suit just because he's a member of a political party which calls itself "socialist"

DSK is about as threatening to global imperialism as Tony Blair.

Tommy_Paine

I think conspiracy thinking has become part of the zietgiest lately, and it takes a conscious effort to not engage in it.  It's easy to resist when the facts as we know them support something we want to believe.  And a tempting debating tactic to resort to in support of something we want to believe when we find ourselves at odds with the facts.  And, more of us are probably guilty of giving into that temptation than we care to admit.

So I don't think those who support a conspiracy or who are entertaining it to an unfathomable degree are seeking to blame the victim or discredit her with that as a prime motive.  But it is an inexcapable element that has to be included in any conspiracy scenario.

500_Apples

A lot of people are apologizing for US/UK imperialism on this site, it's quite shocking.

First of all, nobody is blaming the victim. It is indeed possible that she is a CIA agent, but I am not convinced that it is the case. She could be an unpaid, unwitting agent. It could indeed be that DSK is a frequent rapist, and the CIA was just following him along, waiting for him to make a mistake, with their media handlers itching to pull the trigger.

Let's review the evidence:

1) There is a major media storm against DSK. Normally rape accusations are ignored by the media... except when the accused is an "enemy of the empire", for example Ghadaffi's forces. The entire international media exploded on this issue, in a manner which is unusual, demonstrating they were all too happy to take him down.The botom line is that if he were a loyal servant of the US/UK empire, these rape allegations would have likely never made it into the media, certainly not to the extent they did.

2) DSK was moving forward on special drawing rights, an alternative currency that has the potential to replace the dollar, and would thus devastate the US empire.

I'll also note that the powers that be are moving forward, potentially, on replacing DSK with an upper-class white woman, Christine Laguarde. She is a genocidal sociopath of the same mould as Hillary Clinton. She is a leading minister in the Sarkozy government, which has expelled the Roma from France, and which has recently implemented plans for mass murder in Ivory Coast and Libya. However, that will all be forgotten. Because she is an upper-class white woman, moderate liberal groups (dupes) everywhere will be applauding her appointment as some sort of victory for women, as she will be replacing an ostensible rapist, DSK. Following this, the pseudo-left will then fail to criticize her policies because she is a woman, the same way they fail to criticize Obama because he is black.

It will be an impressive propaganda coup.

genstrike wrote:
This conspiracy-mongering and victim-blaming here on rabble is pathetic.  Not only is it sad in and of itself, but DSK doesn't really fit the archetype of the crusader for social justice taken down in a conspiracy by dark forces.  DSK was the head of the IMF, an organization which vigorously advances the wishes of global capital.

I'll thus be informing you that there are competing imperialisms out there. DSK was probably working on behalf of Franco-German-Russian imperialism, which would put him at odds with US-UK imperialism since they have different interests. The former are not as intrinsically opposed to bourgeois development in the third world.

Sineed wrote:
But is this "historical fact" a literal truth?  The sexual assault of women has been systemically under-recognized or not even acknowledged as rape for millennia.  These "false accusations" may in fact have been allegations of real behaviour that were swept under the rug or attributed to political enemies.

It is a historical truth. I gave examples like the Sepoy mutiny in India, the recent claims that Ghadaffi is giving his troops Viagra, see also the Cynthia Ann Parker and Jessica Lynch stories.

Tommy_Paine

For all we know it is indeed possible she is Bigfoot.  Prove me wrong.

500_Apples

I'm surprised you're actually equating a politically-motivated character assassination to bigfoot.

Big foot, I'm going to help you out, is an idea which violates Darwin's theory of evolution. It is not plausible. And this woman is not big foot, we've seen her photo have we not? Does she look like bigfoot to you?

As for political conspiracies, all you need to believe is that governments are capable of lying. If you believe that, which apparently you don't, then you believe in conspiracies. There are plenty of examples in history, for example the burning of the Reichstag. Governments engage in covert operations on a regular basis, that's not a controversial claim.

Tommy_Paine

No, I was trying to colourfully draw attention to the idea that you can't prove a negative, which is what all these conspiracy ideas are asking us to do.

What, you've never ever read any post here by me showing were governments lie?  Of course they do, and of course we know that from evidence.

To entertain all these conspiracies without a shred of evidence is a clear violation of reason.

Tommy_Paine

Oh and "CHARACTER ASSASSINATION?!!!" (he yelled in incredulity)    Maybe if Dominique Strauss Kahn was accused of saving an orphanage from a catostrophic flood in Zimbabwe, then maybe that would be character assassination.

6079_Smith_W

@ 500 Apples

Evidence?

You are just making up stories about someone who has likely been sexually assaulted, and is now overshadowed by her much more important and famous alleged attacker.

And the worst part of it is that she is not even being thought of as a person, but as a piece in a puzzle. If you're wrong about her being an agent or someone paid to entrap him? Well too bad... no harm done. She can deal with it.

I don't know how you would feel if you were attacked in the street and someone started a rumour that you had somehow deserved it, or were the instigator because of the reputation of the attacker hwo is far more important than you.... or if your house burned down and someone accused you of doing it yourself... or indeed if you had come under suspicion in a family member's death because "well these things don't just happen by themselves".

I'm sure the victims of former pathologist Charles Smith understand what it is like to be falsely accused by someone who feels the need to make random incidents fit patterns that aren't really there and play games with other peoples' lives.

 

 

Fidel

500_Apples wrote:

A lot of people are apologizing for US/UK imperialism on this site, it's quite shocking.

First of all, nobody is blaming the victim. It is indeed possible that she is a CIA agent, but I am not convinced that it is the case. She could be an unpaid, unwitting agent. It could indeed be that DSK is a frequent rapist, and the CIA was just following him along, waiting for him to make a mistake, with their media handlers itching to pull the trigger.

500, in some people's minds, these kinds of things just never happen. Not in their world. In their world, everything is black and white from [url=http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=19915]their POV[/url]. Uncertainty is to be avoided. They tend to have low tolerance for ambiguity and prefer closure. Terror must be managed and outside opinions kept to a minimum for peace of mind. I think some are just natural hanging jurors, say, a murder trial for example. It's who they are at a deeper level according to studies like that one.

Sineed

While it is true that false accusations of rape can be used as a tool to smear and discredit a powerful person, my point is that actual rape is a weapon against women.  Rape has sometimes been used as a weapon of war, but in the main it transcends politics, perpetrated by men of ALL political afflilations/ideologies to degrade and humiliate women.

Look at the recent Arnold Schwartznegger scandal.  Arnold has a long history of groping and molesting women, but some of the women who came forward in the past were pilloried in the media, accused of being agents for the Democrats.

There's an interesting article in yesterday's Globe about why men in positions of power risk everything for transient encounters.

Quote:
Those who seek prominence for selfish reasons tend to become reckless, they say. Paradoxically, the very characteristics that propel them to power melt away once they attain it, sometimes triggering a dramatic demise.

The same qualities that thrust the likes of Mr. Strauss-Kahn, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Eliot Spitzer to greatness actually held the seeds of their ultimate undoing, or so the argument goes.

<snip>

In Mr. Strauss-Kahn’s case, experts surmise he was driven by an overwhelming need for personal power celebrated by status symbols: First-class plane tickets, a fancy job title and $3,000-a-night Sofitel suites....The red flags for Mr. Strauss-Kahn stretched back years, in the form of anecdotes of his inappropriate sexual behaviour from women with whom he’d crossed paths. In Mr. Schwarzenegger’s case, allegations of “groping” flew around long before his love child was born.

Since rape is about power, makes sense that a man who has or wants power would use rape as a kind of affirmation.  Politics has nothing to do with it.

I wonder how many "false" accusations of rape were based on real events, the victims unfortunate enough to accuse a man for whom such allegations were considered to be too conveniently timely for his detractors.

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Sineed wrote:

Since rape is about power, makes sense that a man who has or wants power would use rape as a kind of affirmation.  Politics has nothing to do with it.

I wonder how many "false" accusations of rape were based on real events, the victims unfortunate enough to accuse a man for whom such allegations were considered to be too conveniently timely for his detractors.

 

It needs saying over and over again apparently. Rape is not about sex.  Rapists usually attack numerous women before being charged.

I would think a substantial majority.  I read about a man trying to get his rapist charged and had no success for decades.  Since the same man had raped me I believed him.  The cops said fuck off you have no proof and he is a pillar of the community. The newspapers would not publish the story because they were afraid of this man's institutions powerful lawyers. 

Fidel

Tommy_Paine wrote:
To entertain all these conspiracies without a shred of evidence is a clear violation of reason. 

 

Once again, no one here is saying DSK did not rape. That's a very real possibility. 

What some of us have a hard time with is those saying DSK is not also loathed by some superrich and powerful people from this side of the ocean to the other.

There is a war going on for control of the monetary system. There are no socialists involved in this war. 

Money is how countries have been waging the larger wars since decades ago. There have been bombings and fascist armies marching into sovereign countries and false flag terror before and since the end of cold war for sure. But most of the pillaging and sacking of countries has been done by marauding international capital. Whether DSK is guilty of rape or not, he's definitely done. This is the end of DSK political aspirations for sure. Am I happy or sad? It makes no real difference to us on the left. They are all corrupt and dirty.

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Fidel wrote:

What some of us have a hard time with is those saying DSK is not also loathed by some superrich and powerful people from this side of the ocean to the other.

There is no contradiction.  He was the headwaiter for the super rich.  He has always served at their pleasure.  I believe you can loathe your lap dog if you are a sociopath.  

 

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