Holy Father says condom use will increase HIV/AIDS problem
March 17, 2009 - 11:54am
As I've mused before, is it not time for this barbaric institution to be dismantled?
Condoms won't stop spread of AIDS, says Pope
Condoms are not the answer to the HIV/AIDS epidemic in Africa, Pope Benedict said Tuesday while on his way to the continent for a seven-day visit.
"You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," the Pope told reporters aboard his plane to Yaounde, Cameroon. "On the contrary, it increases the problem."
The Pope went on to comment on his growing popularity:
Benedict also laughed off suggestions he has become increasingly isolated within the church, particularly after an outreach to ultra-conservatives that led to his lifting the excommunication of a Holocaust-denying bishop.
"The myth of my solitude makes me laugh," the Pope said, adding he has a network of friends he sees on a daily basis.
Will rational thought ever successfully dismantle institutions like this?
I'm not hopeful.
_______________________________________
Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!
Who takes sex advice from a celibate 81 year old?
Isn't he inciting genocide of the African people?
Why doesn't the International Criminal Court issue a warrant for his arrest?
"The myth of my solitude makes me laugh..."
This would indicate that the Holy See DOES get it on sometimes.
"...adding he has a network of friends he sees on a daily basis."
Now we know where those old Nazis are holed up!
The Pope went on to comment on his growing popularity:
Benedict also laughed off suggestions he has become increasingly isolated within the church, particularly after an outreach to ultra-conservatives that led to his lifting the excommunication of a Holocaust-denying bishop.
"The myth of my solitude makes me laugh," the Pope said, adding he has a network of friends he sees on a daily basis.
More heinous cartoons here ...
http://www.catholicleague.org/printer.php?p=AnnualReport&id=79
Even more heinous, the comment of the poster:
The priests are clearly chasing boys and are therefore gay. Whom would they marry?
The Catholic church powers that be do not know the difference between "gay" and "pedophile". That's the truly disgusting part of all of this, and betrays their intention to do NOTHING!
With all due respect to everyone, the Catholic Church's anti-condom campaign in Africa is far more odious than the sexual predilections of popes and priests.
I'm serious about the genocide charge. I think I'll start a Facebook group and an online petition. Stay tuned.
"...the Catholic Church's anti-condom campaign in Africa is far more odious than the sexual predilections of popes and priests"
Unionist, I doubt you would say this if you were a survivor of child sexual abuse by someone in a position of authority. It's not just the "predilections", it's the aiding, abetting and systematic cover-up by the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy, including constant litigation to cover their sacred hot crossed buns.
Anyway, why compare two horrible instances of harm?
Sorry, martin, I misspoke myself. I didn't mean their child abuse. I meant the comments about celibacy, etc. Of course there is no comparison intended here; both are foul crimes.
Catholic nun: 'Condoms useful for catching fish'
excerpt:
My goal was to try and elicit something on the Pope's comments today on condoms and Aids. As she had not seen the reports, our discussion moved on to more general areas. For her, the answer is in education, and teaching respect for the woman. What did Sister Janet think then of the use of condoms in Aids prevention? Even when they have access to them, she says, people in Africa do not use them, or at least not for their intended purpose. 'They give them to children to play with. Or use them for catching fish.'
Condoms as bait? I didn't quite get it.
'They take them down to the lake and fill them with water and catch fish,' she explained patiently.
Critics attack Pope for his 'myopic' views on condoms
excerpt:
Catholic and human rights activists condemned the Pope as once more showing himself out of touch with reality by advocating inhumane policies that would only increase the suffering of innocent people.
Jon O’Brien, President of Catholics for Choice, said: “This is a myopic view of sexuality and a nonsense-based approach to public health. We have never argued that condoms are a panacea for Aids. But they are an absolutely vital health measure to help stem the spread of HIV and Aids.”
He said Catholics in the developed world had long since rejected the ban on artificial birth control introduced by the Holy See with the encyclical Humanae Vitae in 1968.
He accused the Holy See of lobbying governmental and other organisations around the world to ensure that condoms were not part of aid packages.
Full quote:
"I would say the opposite. I think that the reality that is most effective, the most present and the strongest in the fight against AIDS, is precisely that of the Catholic Church, with its programs and its diversity. I think of the Sant'Egidio Community,* which does so much visibly and invisibly in the fight against AIDS ... and of all the sisters at the service of the sick.
"I would say that one cannot overcome this problem of AIDS only with money -- which is important, but if there is no soul, no people who know how to use it, (money) doesn't help.
"One cannot overcome the problem with the distribution of condoms. On the contrary, they increase the problem.
"The solution can only be a double one: first, a humanization of sexuality, that is, a spiritual human renewal that brings with it a new way of behaving with one another; second, a true friendship even and especially with those who suffer, and a willingness to make personal sacrifices and to be with the suffering. And these are factors that help and that result in real and visible progress.
Source
*Sant'Egidio Community
Good idea! Indict Omar al-Ratzinger!
Full quote:
No, Ze, that was not a "full quote". How did you miss this part:
Some Catholic clergymen have argued that the use of condoms to stem the spread of the disease would be a "lesser of two evils".
The Pope warned that contraception was one of a host of trends contributing to a "breakdown in sexual morality", and church teachings should not be ignored.
"It is of great concern that the fabric of African life, its very source of hope and stability, is threatened by divorce, abortion, prostitution, human trafficking and a contraception mentality," he added.
The man should be incarcerated.
Catholics for Choice - a dissenting, progressive Catholic organization that has condemned the Pope's stand on both the condoms/AIDS issue, as well as the decision regarding the nine-year-old Brazilian rape victim's abortion.
http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/
Reading through this web site, I'm really impressed. I'm even more heartened by the fact that most Catholics agree with them and not the Vatican.
The Vatican can't keep pulling this shit forever. Their members have been ignoring them and doing their own thing for years. And now they're forming groups like this one and speaking out. It's just a matter of time.
Unfortunately, Africans who are dying of AIDS because of the genocidal impulses of Pope Nazi don't have time. :(
Yeah, I agree.
dp
I was reading in the paper today that the Taliban has also condemned the use condoms as being "Un-islamic" and leading to promiscuity. Who knew that this issue would create an alliance between the Vatican and Taliban - hey that's a rhyme Vatican and Taliban - the new axis of evil!
One of the many hypocrisies of the Vatican is that, although the anti-condom verbiage has some continuity, its actions amount to a cynical strategy of targeting the poor for death.
They try to block aid that includes condoms from the wealthy nations to the poorest and yet, where is there any serious Vatican-coordinated attempt to block condom sales in wealthy nations--or even Vatican-based threats of denial of communion to Catholics in wealthy nations who habitually use condoms?
The last thing they want to do is to highlight to the privileged the criminally insane autocratic policies of denial of choice which they inflict on those who can't defend themselves. Much better to "stick" it to the poor through backroom maneuvering.
Pope quotes changed
excerpt:
The Holy See has amended the Pope's comments on condoms. Watch out for our report in tomorrow's Times. No matter what he actually said, the final version authorised by the Vatican is deemed to be the official record. The main change is that instead of stating unequivocally that condoms aggravate or increase the problem of Aids, the Vatican now has the Pope saying that condoms "risk" aggravating the problem. This is not the first time the Pope has had to backtrack on remarks made to journalists on a plane. Visiting Brazil in 2007, he appeared to sanction the excommunication of Mexican legislators who backed abortion.
excerpt:
The Pope might have done the Aids-ridden continent more of a service than he knows. Spain announced today that it is sending a million condoms to Africa to help fight the disease.
The international outrage and the speed of the Holy See's response is exceptional.
Jon O'Brien, president of Catholics for Choice, welcomed the climbdown.'The pope has now admitted that he is unsure as to whether condoms will help alleviate the spread of HIV. Where there is doubt there is freedom and Catholics can now make up their own minds as to whether they can use them or not. Indeed, the vast majority of Catholics has already made this call and use condoms to protect themselves and their partners against STIs, including HIV.
The Vatican's so-called climbdown is an obvious reaction to my threat of genocide charges. Let them know that this is too little, too late. He will rot in prison for this.
The Pope may still be counting this as a success. The media reports I have seen in connection to this story don't give much time to evidence based criticisms of the Chuch's pronouncement.
Unfortunately, no matter how much the Catholic Church may deserve vitriolic and hyperbolic attacks on any communication it serves regarding sexuality, here it works to the church's favour, as it diverts attention from the bald facts.
Ignorance is fertilizer for both religion and HIV.
Fortunately, international organizations are condemning his statement, although they are doing so gingerly because he is God's representative. Hopefully humanitarians will have the courage to speak out and condemn this accomplice of murder.
"Catholics for Choice"'s statement "welcoming" the latest comments is pretty pathetic, but I guess they're operating within difficult circumstances, so it's far better than nothing.
Here is Stephen Lewis:
"The Pope is living on the moon," said Stephen Lewis, who heads a foundation supporting groups that alleviate the deadly effects of HIV/AIDS.
And he added: "Every stitch of scientific evidence says condoms are the best preventive measure we have against the virus."
The Pope's remark was "another example of complete indifference to the vulnerability of women, who are so hugely and disproportionately affected by HIV/AIDS," Lewis said in an interview from Hamilton yesterday.
Bravo.
Note the cute coment about the Pope living on the moon was the lead statement. I'm not sure that Lewis meant it to be, or the media chose it.
The rest of the statement you quoted was what needs to be heard.
I'm curious as to how radio stations across Africa are reporting this.
Anyone got any idea?
Well the devil in me says put the plastic on or there will be H.e.l.l. to pay and if HIV/aids isn't H.e.l.l. on earth I don't know what is father? As those afflicted with the disease pray to their maker for compassion and relief from their misery. And the Lord who works in mysterious way answered with the condom.
And since sex is a very private thing I recommend keep the pope out of your sex life because as the Pope sees abstaince as the answer for everythng and thats great if your going to be a priest or a pope but regular folks. And how has abstiance worked out for the Catholic Church?
I like the Pope also and can under stand his growing popularity but this is an area where he has little expertise and would be better decided by a medical professional. I like what he had to say to world leaders and how they had to unite and fight against terrorism and he was right on. Little has happened in that area of terrorism but maybe once the global meltdown has finally reached a climax and we are on are way up maybe our leaders will talk.
I always wondered why they called this babble.
Its all babble your babble my babble but its babble and the condom if it isn't used can wipe out a lot of babble as many become afflicted as the disease has traveled around the globe. And I just think it would be better if the Pope took care of the spiritual part and the doctors the body parts as its a health issue. It made sense as medical professionals hand out condoms to Africans. And it wasn't that long ago that the medical profession didn't know what they were dealing with either as many were fearful in health industry they would also contact disease. And the world leaders babbling well I just was reading an article in the Times where they are babbling on how despite talks of leaders coming together to stop terrorism as the economy was first on their minds. I was deeply impressed with the Pope when he recommended the nations get together to combat terrorism and I hope it moves past babble and into real talks ending a war that never should have never started. I do not agree with the Popes decision about condoms but he deals with the soul and life after and these people need someone who deals with the now. There must be a way for the medical community to pass its remedy for Aids/Hiv off on the people without getting to involved with religion and make it into a health thing. Make it simple not simpler. Do you really want to take on the Church it would be easier to wrap it up some other way like use this during sex because it makes you feel better?
The Pope and his minions are responsible for every African who dies because someone listened to these religious authorities. The Pope's exhortation is morally equivalent to radio broadcasts preceding the Rwanda slaughter.
This isn't only about Africa. Because of its long-standing support for fascist regimes, the Roman Catholic church rules in Latin/South America, the Phillipines and many other impoverished countries where physical contraception of any kind is actively opposed by Ratzinger's boys.
Don't just renounce christianism and its generalized oppression of women, tell everyone about it and make this a political issue.
Impeach the Pope
We haven't had an anti-pope for awhile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipope
Caissa for Antipope!
Would I be canonized, Boom Boom?
It depends on the miracles that you perform after your death.
The process to Sainthood is a long and arduous one, full of investigation from the Vatican, etc. ;)
Boom Boom can canonize this anti-pope while he's still alive.
http://www.pinkcherry.ca/Condoms/products/75/?gclid=CMKJ77rDr5kCFRwwawodEmwXJg
Hand out these and let them know this is not for birth control as its not foolproof but great for the prevention of spreading disease amongst themselves and on to their unborn children. As condoms are for disease prevention as there are far more effective ways to ensure unwanted pregnacies than condoms as users find themselves holding the babe. Africians have no easy life and the only comfort some may have is in the arms of another something they are not to about to abandon.
Pills: not Abortion
Condoms: not AIDS/HIV
As condoms are a way to ensure you are not passing unwanted disease on to a new born babe and birth control pills will help you with unwanted pregnacies.
Because you can already be pregnant and have sex and pass this horrible disease of on to your unborn child so remember condoms disease prevention and the pill is for birth control.
Caissa wrote: Boom Boom can canonize this anti-pope while he's still alive.
I can? Is there reimbursement involved?
I encourage anyone to make herself or himself a papal costume (think glitter) and blow a few minds at demos ("Bear me a child, ladies, please..."), parties and other functions. A friend and I have done it separately (she when JP2 came to Montreal in the mid-eighties). It's great fun (you get to write an excommunication fire-and-brimstone homily!), a treat for kids, sure-fire eye candy for the media, and it gives people an opportunity to laugh and vent.
The last two Halloweens I have dressed like a cardinal. Used to be my Facebook profile picture. Amazing what yarmulkes can double as.
Big Ben is at it again in Angola, putting a positive spin on the word "excise", of all things:
"Benedict called on Africa to show "a determination born from the conversion of hearts to excise corruption once and for all.
(...)The Catholic church is one of the few strong voices outside of Angola's government, with 55 per cent of the population being Catholic.
Abortion criticised
In his speech in Angola, Benedict criticised part of the African Union's charter that gives women a right to an abortion in cases of rape, incest or major health risks to the mother,
He said abortion was not a health issue.
Benedict's Africa visit has been overshadowed by his rejection of condoms in Aids prevention and his reiteration of the church's ban on abortions, even in cases where the mother's life is at risk.
In remarks made on Tuesday, Benedict said that Aids "cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which even aggravates the problems".
This led to anger amid Aids activists as well as some governments, who said that Benedict's remarks could harm Aids-prevention campaigns.
Angola is one of the countries where the government is carrying out a massive nationwide campaign to promote condoms."
(Al-Jazeera - News Africa)
In my lifetime, I don't think I've ever seen anyone so out of touch with reality as this current Pope.
Does that include your 4 years of posting here?
"Out of touch with reality"? How reassuring... In The Independent, Robert Fisk argues that, au contraire, the highly erudite Ratzinger knows exactly what he is doing, fueling imperialist warfare - and, I would add, forcing Catholic women via compliant States to have a maximum number of babies and a minimum of rights.
(double post)
You make him sound like a reclusive old-fashioned uncle. He is a murderer. Every time he or one of his accomplices preys on people's faith in this way, someone dies.
He is not out of touch with reality. He knows exactly what he is doing, and he has a multi-billion dollar criminal network following his orders.
ETA: I crossposted with martin. I agree with him completely.
Just as Jews have a special duty to publicly condemn those who speak in their names (like Israel and its accomplices in Canada), so Catholics should call for this Pope to be brought to justice.
I withdraw my comment, then. I should have explained what I meant - that Ratzinger continues down the path of antagonizing his own people and non-Catholics alike, defending the indefensible. That sounds like being out of touch with reality to me.
(should I edit out my previous post entirely?)
Then I'll delete mine.
I can see your points. His is though, a reality of the uber elite and the powerful, and it is a very insulated reality from which the people and their suffering and struggles are just a distant concept. I cannot imagine that spending ones life in a rarified place like the Vatican, surrounded by fawning psychofants and modern day Borgias could be anything other than psychologically warping.
I withdraw my comment, then. I should have explained what I meant - that Ratzinger continues down the path of antagonizing his own people and non-Catholics alike, defending the indefensible. That sounds like being out of touch with reality to me.
(should I edit out my previous post entirely?)
I appreciate your above post, Boom Boom, and personally, I don't think you should edit out your previous post. One reason is that a lot of the criticism of the Pope, even in this very thread, is misplaced - sort of comical. It's what I meant before when I said that this criminal behaviour has nothing to do with the "sexual predilections" of the Pope and his minions, i.e., that they practice celibacy, glorify heterosexuality, etc. I think that viewing these people as virgins or as dirty old men/women or even as child abusers downplays the full extent of their crimes. Even if they never abused children personally - even if they abandoned their celibacy vows - even if they hired Madison Avenue for an image makeover - they still need to be indicted for their crimes against women, children, and humanity as a whole.
Editing out my post entirely is an option, but since I've explained what I meant in a follow-up post, I'll leave it in, just to keep the thread flowing. This emoticon describes how I feel right now:
I think it is being a bit naive - and too easy on Catholics - to claim that Ratzinger "antagonizes his own people."
It seems to me that - with our escalating war on Islamist states - the Vatican is betting on widespread support for increasingly hard line positions - especially in the developing world where his power base now lies
Sorry Boom Boom - I wish it weren't so!
I think it is being a bit naive - and too easy on Catholics - to claim that Ratzinger "antagonizes his own people."
I agree. I think it's quite the opposite. Ratzinger is counting on a hard line to mobilize and consolidate support. Just think of Harper and Kenney.
To believe that people will spontaneously reject such homicidal horrors is extremely naive. Religion, in particular, doesn't work that way. When a religious authority makes a pronouncement, the faithful often have to choose between their own instinct and that higher authority. All too often, they make the wrong choice.
Ratzinger and his minions will not self-destruct. They must be destroyed.
Some folks are doing something about this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,615820,00.html
African Archbishop alleges AIDS workers "introduce boys to homosexuality"