Hugo Chavez, RIP

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Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Why else do you think I posted a picture of Msr. O'Leary?

6079_Smith_W

And here I was, not wanting to get too far off topic, in deference to the seriousness of the occasion.

knownothing knownothing's picture

What Mulcair said about Chavez was far from nothing burger.

He was caught on his feet and he immediately made condolences to his family and the people of Venezuela.

He pointed out that he was democratically elected and that he helped the poor.

The worst he said about him was that his policies were "controversial".

Mulcair has admitted to having a Che Guevara beret.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/03/07/who-really-killed-hugo-ch...

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03/07/venezuela-slams-harper-for-blunt...

6079_Smith_W

Maduro has been sworn in, and is expected within days to call an election:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/03/08/wrd-venezuela-hugo-chavez-...

arielc

I think we have to acknowledge that Canada via Harper has caused some pain.

crcas@international.gc.ca

We have public employees at the Canadian Embassy in Caracas who might pass on messages of condolence and respect from Canadians to Chavez' family and the people of Venuzuela.

Slumberjack

6079_Smith_W wrote:
And here I was, not wanting to get too far off topic, in deference to the seriousness of the occasion.

Hugo had some of the best lines in any occasion.  Who could forget the Devil.  We should try and honour that about him as well.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Farewell, President Chavez...

You were not a living saint, but who is?

(besides which, most saints, when they were alive, were bloody annoying to everyone who knew them).

You made some choices I might not have made...but I wasn't running a country under siege and under external attack, so there's limits to what I can or should say about that...legitimate limits.

You gave a voice(the community councils and the democracy-from-below structure of your great party)to those who had had no voice...and that is the reason you were denouced by so many of those who call themselves not only conservatives and centrists but also so many who call themselves "liberals".

You used the wealth generated by the resources of your country, not to buy mansions, expensive cars, expensive food, expensive wines, expensive sexual partners and everything else that could be turned into something to be sold for top dollar(as those who denounced and still denounce you think all wealth SHOULD rightfully be used, by the lucky few), but to provide for the people of your country food, shelter, clothing, education for all, dignity for the living, care for the sick and a gentle passage out of this world for those whose time had come.  For this, the groups I listed in the last sentence of the previous paragraph will NEVER forgive you-they will do all they can to destroy what you built, because what you built was a foundation of the truth...the truth that those with great quantities of money(gathered by whatever means)are not the ONLY people who deserve to live.

You made it possible for the Rainbow majority of people, in your country and in many others, to begin saving themselves from the misery of their own conditions and to hold once again in their souls the vision of a world far different and far better than the one most of us are trapped in now...and that is an even greater reason why you died reviled in most of the great centers of wealth, media, and political and military power-because, where they live by destroying dreams of anything other than accumulating possessions, you showed that the many could live for the dream of a life where all TRULY live, not just survive.

For all of that, for your courage, for your strength in times of personal pain, for your insistence on carrying on when under attack from those  who would destroy you and your country, thanks.  Your body is at rest, but you live on.

You live on in the hearts, the minds, the joy, the rage, the strength, and the will of the poorest, hungriest, most beautiful children of the Earth...the children your enemies want to kill in their youth, emotionally if not physically...the children who will, if given the chance, if not crushed by the hatred and fears of the worst of their elders, make the world we need...the children on whose future life depends.

Thank you for showing those children the path they will now take-the path to a world where they can live, not just struggle to live until they die

Hasta La Victoria Siempre.

6079_Smith_W

Slumberjack wrote:

6079_Smith_W wrote:
And here I was, not wanting to get too far off topic, in deference to the seriousness of the occasion.

Hugo had some of the best lines in any occasion.  Who could forget the Devil.  We should try and honour that about him as well.

Oh I know. I was joking.

That giant Kevin O'Leary just took me by surprise.

A_J

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Maduro has been sworn in, and is expected within days to call an election:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/03/08/wrd-venezuela-hugo-chavez-...

So it's official - Maduro is the interim president.  What do people make of this in light of the fact that the constitution states the president of the national assembly - Diasdado Cabello - is supposed to serve as interim president if the president-elect passes away before being sworn in?

In other news: Hugo Chavez's body to go on permanent display (CBC)

"We have decided to prepare the body of our Comandante President, to embalm it so that it remains open for all time for the people. Just like Ho Chi Minh. Just like Lenin. Just like Mao Zedong," Maduro said.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

A_J wrote:
So it's official - Maduro is the interim president.  What do people make of this in light of the fact that the constitution states the president of the national assembly - Diasdado Cabello - is supposed to serve as interim president if the president-elect passes away before being sworn in?

Click.

[Maduro] also stated that he had already officially requested the National Electoral Council (CNE) “immediately convene presidential elections”.

 

 the Supreme Court has upheld the government's decision to appoint Maduro, who Chavez named last December as his choice for presidential candidate. The Venezuelan constitution states that the vice-president will be interim president until elections, should the president become permanently unavailable in his first four years, but that the president of the national assembly will be interim president if the president becomes unavailable before he is sworn in.

6079_Smith_W

That is probably not the wisest fight for the opposition to get into. Even if they have some grounds for complaint, it is not an issue they are going to win any ground on, especially not at this time.

They should be focusing on the election.

 

Unionist

6079_Smith_W wrote:

That is probably not the wisest fight for the opposition to get into. Even if they have some grounds for complaint, it is not an issue they are going to win any ground on, especially not at this time.

They should be focusing on the election.

 

Good advice. I hope the White House is listening.

contrarianna

A_J wrote:

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Maduro has been sworn in, and is expected within days to call an election:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/03/08/wrd-venezuela-hugo-chavez-...

So it's official - Maduro is the interim president.  What do people make of this in light of the fact that the constitution states the president of the national assembly - Diasdado Cabello - is supposed to serve as interim president if the president-elect passes away before being sworn in?

In other news: Hugo Chavez's body to go on permanent display (CBC)

"We have decided to prepare the body of our Comandante President, to embalm it so that it remains open for all time for the people. Just like Ho Chi Minh. Just like Lenin. Just like Mao Zedong," Maduro said.

As an aside, it is irrelevant what Canadian politicians say about Chavez's death except for playing to their targeted audience (one can imagine the various oppositions gushing heartfelt sorrow at any (heaven forbid!) untimely loss of Commandant Harper--with no respect to what he has done to Canada or the lives of people.

It is even more irrelevant what people here think about what Venezuelans do for the funereal disposition of the Venezuelan's body.
If (or when) oily trans-national capitalism triumphs, his corpse will be unceremoniously  re-disposed--if that offers any kind of morbid comfort.

But since you asked:
The Venezuelan violation of the Constitution (though tempting, our Government's violations of our Constitution will not be compared here) will become mostly mute if there is, as stated, an early election.

The reason the internationally-connected opposition are shedding tears of outrage has less to do with the violation of the the letter of the Constitution, and more to do with jockeying for the upcoming election.

Not having Mr Cabello as a figurehead to shoot at (perhaps figuratively) is a great loss to the opposition and its transnational supporters.

From the BBC:

Quote:

...
Nelson Lanz, a journalist for the pro-Chavez website aporrea.org has described Mr Cabello as "the man most hated and vilified by the opposition and not much loved by Chavistas (supporters of President Hugo Chavez)"
....

Nevertheless, Mr Cabello remained close to President Chavez.

He seemed to accept Mr Chavez's decision to name Nicolas Maduro as his preferred successor.

Mr Maduro and Mr Cabello have stood shoulder to shoulder, giving updates on the president's health as he underwent more surgery in Cuba.

But with his contacts in the military, the government and among some business people, Mr Cabello wields considerable power and is thought to harbour his own political ambitions.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-20750536

Unionist

contrarianna wrote:

 

As an aside, it is irrelevant what Canadian politicians say about Chavez's death ...

I understand your point, but I beg to differ. It is relevant, because their statement (like Harper) or stony silence (like Mulcair) speaks volumes about where they stand on those who resist domination and oppression, and where they will take Canada if given a chance.

For example, just attempt to imagine the man who made this statement saying anything positive about Hugo Chavez:

Thomas Mulcair, on December 19, 2011 wrote:

It was with great sadness that I learned about the death Sunday of ex-Czech president, Vaclav Havel, following a long illness at the age of 75.

He was the craftsman of the 1989 anti-communist “velvet revolution” and became president of Czechoslovakia and of the Czech Republic from 1989 to 2003.

A hero for peace and democracy, he successfully led his country’s transition from communist regime to democracy. His fight against the communist regime put him behind bars on three occasions, but he never stopped fighting for his beliefs. It was under his leadership that the country joined NATO and the EU. After leaving office, he devoted his life to fighting for human rights in various countries. Mr. Havel was also a writer and playwright.

He is an inspiration for all of us, as someone who always fought for what he believed in.

On behalf of the whole NDP team, I would like to express my sincere condolences to Mr. Havel’s family and friends and acknowledge his important contribution to democracy in Europe.

Even when expressing sympathy (or not, as in the case of Chavez), people and parties can't help but reveal a whole lot about themselves.

The emphasis above was added, just in case anyone had trouble picking out the really shitty parts.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I love how people on this board buy into the right wing propaganda spewed by his opponents.  The Supreme Court in their country ruled on the issue but the opposition claims they are not legitimate.  Imagine after being in office for 15 years Chavez has now appointed most of the Supreme Court so they are obviously illegitimate. Using that logic and given that Harper has now named 5 of the 9 judges to our SCC I guess it is proper to claim any decisions our Supreme Court make are illegitimate.

Quote:

Earlier on Friday, the supreme court, which is packed with government loyalists, said Maduro became acting president the moment Chávez died and could run for president.

Capriles denounced that ruling and called the inauguration spurious: "What the supreme court did I've qualified as an electoral fraud."

The opposition leader, who lost to Chávez in last October's election, declined to confirm that he would run against Maduro, leaving open the possibility that he would boycott the election and trigger a political crisis. He accused the court of slipping the decision past the country while it mourned.

contrarianna

Unionist wrote:

contrarianna wrote:

 

As an aside, it is irrelevant what Canadian politicians say about Chavez's death ...

I understand your point, but I beg to differ. It is relevant, because their statement (like Harper) or stony silence (like Mulcair) speaks volumes about where they stand on those who resist domination and oppression, and where they will take Canada if given a chance....

I mostly agree with that, Unionist.

That's why the rest of my sentence said "...except for playing to their targeted audience", which is the political arena which you are talking about.

In this case, politicians, whose ultimate target are potential voters, generate words (or silence) that are transferred by and contextualized by the Harper-endorsing media who, directly or indirectly, pass judgement on them.
This is the politicians only criterium for public utterance or silence, it's not about the actual demise of the person in question or sympathy, or how the public speaker may or may not privately feel about it.

Is this the way things should be? Probably not. Does it reflect on the degree of commitment of the speaker to anything except ambition? Nope.

 

contrarianna

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I love how people on this board buy into the right wing propaganda spewed by his opponents.  The Supreme Court in their country ruled on the issue but the opposition claims they are not legitimate.  Imagine after being in office for 15 years Chavez has now appointed most of the Supreme Court so they are obviously illegitimate. Using that logic and given that Harper has now named 5 of the 9 judges to our SCC I guess it is proper to claim any decisions our Supreme Court make are illegitimate....

Does it matter which Venezuelan Government appoints Supreme Court members? Absolutely.
Does it matter which Canadian Government appoints Supreme Court members? Absolutely.

Politically sensitive decisions made by Supreme Courts are not generated in a rarefied atmosphere of pure, mechanically generated, impartial law--despite popular mythology. Otherwise, people who know otherwise would be indifferent about the nature of the Government making Supreme Court appointments.

Obviously, one politically appointed Supreme Court may be more attuned to a genuine sense of justice for all than others.

NDPP

Canada-Venezuela 'Reset' Isn't Yet in the Cards  -  by Bill Graham

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/canada-venezuela-reset-isnt-ye...

"Chavez was the joker in the Latin American pack of cards. In other words, he was just the kind of leader who causes headaches for governments like Canada's both with his policies and his persona.."

If Chavez was 'the joker' then Canada is the knave..

 

Vaya Con Dios, Hugo Chavez, mi Amigo - by Greg Palast

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/16380-focus-vaya-con-dios...

"In 2005, Reverend Pat Robertson - channelling the frustration of George W Bush's State Department, said 'Hugo Chavez thinks we're trying to assassinate him. I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it..."

 

Chavez Wanted To Help Create More Multipolar World: Isaac Biggio (and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/03/09/292710/chavez-contributed-to-mu...

"A political analyst says that the funeral ceremony of Hugo Chavez shows that he was basically supported by the people who want to create a regional bloc in Latin America and Caribbean in opposition to the Western powers..."

 

Hugo Chavez Legacy Confronts US-Led Aggressive Wars: Chris Bamberry (and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/03/09/292695/chavez-legacy-fights-wes...

"The legacy of Hugo Chavez confronts Western wars and aggressions and set an example as a revolutionary for liberal, social and economic issues in Latin America..."

6079_Smith_W

Sure, though I don't think anyone expected John Roberts to rule as he did last June on healthcare. And I think our supreme court has made a few rulings people did not expect them to.

Yes justices have biases like we all do, but I think it is always better to lean toward that sense of justice you mention, rather than any political bias. How that played out in Venezuela in this case I don't know.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

My point was that why should we in Canada accept that Venezuelan is a failed state with a corrupt judiciary anymore than our own is.  I agree that in fact ours is biased as well but we don't just dismiss our jurists because they are appointed by a Conservative government and are conservative in their viewpoint.  You want to see a corrupt court then look to BC and what happened with the Basi Virk trial compared to the Clark trial. In the meantime maybe we should not point fingers at others.

Unionist

Jesse Jackson and Sean Penn at the funeral - and in the background is famed Venezuelan violinist Gustavo Dudamel, who is also conductor of the Orquesta Sinfónica Simón Bolívar and of the Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra.

Further in the background is not Thomas Mulcair, nor anyone else from the NDP.

 

contrarianna

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Sure, though I don't think anyone expected John Roberts to rule as he did last June on healthcare....

Perhaps not the best example:

http://news.firedoglake.com/2012/06/28/chief-justice-roberts-incoherent-...

6079_Smith_W

@ k, #120

Absolutely. Agreed.

and @contrarianna

Spin it how you will. I don't think it is what they were expecting. My point stands.

/drift.

 

NDPP

George Galloway on Hugo Chavez etc.(and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/Program/292501.html

"I salute the memory of Hugo Chavez, a very great man..."

NDPP

Chavez Vive, La Lucha Sigue!  -  by JB Gerald

http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-backed-overthrough-of-democracy-what-doe...

"It's impossible to respect the casual contempt of the Canadian Prime Minister's response to the death of a world leader who both took care of the poor and by embracing his own multi-racial ancestry challenged the pyschological trap of colonialism's caste system and its stigmatization of 'mixed' blood..."

 

Hugo Chavez Funeral: Homage to El Comandante, But the Cracks Show

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/9918875...

The Telegraph drops a little shit on Chavez's funeral as well...

 

Where is America's Hugo Chavez?  -  by Rob Urie

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/03/08/where-is-americas-hugo-chavez/

"...Where Mr Chavez dedicated (and likely gave) his life to improving the lot of Venezuela's and the regional South's poor and building the infrastructure of real economic and political democracy, America's 'liberal' President Barack Obama claimed the right of extra-judicial assassination of the citizenry at his whim while 'sequestering' the economic interests of poor and working Americans to bolster the already substantial fortunes of the private financiers and industrialists he serves. To the political 'left' that voted for Mr Obama, the contrast is there if you care to see it.."

A_J

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The Supreme Court in their country ruled on the issue

Generally the contending parties have an opportunity to file written briefs and present their arguments to the judges - a court doesn't just throw-out a judgment on a moment's notice as what seems to have happened first with the question of whether Chavez could just postpone his swearing-in (they held that it was a mere formality) and now stating that the vice president can take over when the president-elect passes away without being sworn-in (when the constituion clearly states the opposite).

6079_Smith_W wrote:

That is probably not the wisest fight for the opposition to get into. Even if they have some grounds for complaint, it is not an issue they are going to win any ground on, especially not at this time.

They should be focusing on the election.

True, but with the new government already so willing to ignore the constitution it is bound to make some people wonder how fair elections are going to be or what Maduro's future administration is going to be like (because he's probably going to win).

6079_Smith_W

A_J wrote:

True, but with the new government already so willing to ignore the constitution it is bound to make some people wonder how fair elections are going to be or what Maduro's future administration is going to be like (because he's probably going to win).

That's sort of my point - that they should pick the battle that matters.

And while there have been reports of Chavez's government using its resources unfairly, I'm not aware of reports of widespread irregularities in their elections; and Chavez has lost votes before.

Maduro's appointment as president is moot, because the election has been called. If the opposition want to take their case to the people here is their chance. What I am saying is that they should focus on the issues that actually matter, because this one is over. If they want to claim it was an example of judicial bias, fine; I think any political party would do the same. But if they were to make a big issue of it it is almost certain to backfire on them.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

A_J wrote:

True, but with the new government already so willing to ignore the constitution it is bound to make some people wonder how fair elections are going to be or what Maduro's future administration is going to be like (because he's probably going to win).

Yes it definitely makes right wing media in the West wonder but since the past elections have been fairer and more open than in North America I suspect the people of Venezuela who don't support the old oligarchy have no concerns with either their electoral system or their courts interpreting the constitution.  

The supreme court had the opposition demanding they take a stand on the secession in January BEFORE the inauguration.  After they lost that they then started complaining that the decision was biased and now it is saying it was done to quickly.  I'll bet if the supreme court had ruled against the government the opposition would not now be demanding a new ruling because the first one was rushed. Are you suggesting that when the opposition called for the court to decide the matter they neglected to send them a brief?  That makes no sense to me but when I looked to see what process was used all I could find is dozens of western corporate media regurgitating each others bile.

I'd call it petty politics but not that long ago this kind of talk was used by the military and oligarchy in Honduras to overthrow their democracy.

NDPP

Enemy of the Revolution: Monopoly Media  -  by Kim Peterson

http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/03/enemy-of-the-revolution-monopoly-media/

"...The guns and levers of capitalism through the auspices of Big Oil and the government-military-industrial-complex, now visualize a window of opportunity to repeal the Bolivarian Revolution. The CBC reports, 'The most significant trait of authoritarian leaders is leaving behind very weak establishments.' Implied is that the serially elected Hugo Chavez is an authoritarian..."

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Hugo Chávez

excerpt:

There was no one in the entire universe that those who own and run “United States, Inc.” wanted to see dead more than Hugo Chávez. He was worse than Allende. Worse than Fidel Castro. Worse than any world leader not in the American camp because he spoke out in the most forceful terms about US imperialism and its cruelty. Repeatedly. Constantly. Saying things that heads of state are not supposed to say. At the United Nations, on a shockingly personal level about George W. Bush. All over Latin America, as he organized the region into anti-US-Empire blocs.

Long-term readers of this report know that I’m not much of a knee-reflex conspiracy theorist. But when someone like Chávez dies at the young age of 58 I have to wonder about the circumstances. Unremitting cancer, intractable respiratory infections, massive heart attack, one after the other … It is well known that during the Cold War, the CIA worked diligently to develop substances that could kill without leaving a trace. I would like to see the Venezuelan government pursue every avenue of investigation in having an autopsy performed.

Back in December 2011, Chávez, already under treatment for cancer, wondered out loud: “Would it be so strange that they’ve invented the technology to spread cancer and we won’t know about it for 50 years?” The Venezuelan president was speaking one day after Argentina’s leftist president, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, announced she had been diagnosed with thyroid cancer. This was after three other prominent leftist Latin America leaders had been diagnosed with cancer: Brazil’s president, Dilma Rousseff; Paraguay’s Fernando Lugo; and the former Brazilian leader Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva.

NDPP

How does one make the above poster disappear?

Caissa

Jeff House is reporting on Facebook that Chavez successor has been leveling homophobic slurs at his opponent and has a history of gaybaiting.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PNonamU5j5U

Unionist

This shit is one year old. Who cares? Next Jeff will reveal that the Taliban are anti-women, Hamas doesn't like Jews, Chavez was a devout Roman Catholic, and Indigenous people have issues with settlers? What exactly is the point of this?

Oh, I know. Pinkwashing. The U.S. agents are more gay-friendly, so with the White House's kind armed assistance, they should be in charge.

 

Caissa

I certainly care about homophobia, Unionist.

Unionist

Caissa wrote:

I certainly care about homophobia, Unionist.

So do I. Here, first and foremost.

What do you think of the websites which meticulously reprint all the real (or imagined) anti-Jewish media items that they can find from Arab countries or Iran?

See, I'm a Jew, much of whose family was murdered by anti-semites. Yet, I see those websites for what they are - agencies of imperialism and zionism, cynically using people's feelings to provide cover for crime and prepare for war.

I haven't seen Jeff House's full exposé. But the clip you posted pales into nothingness when compared to the heinous homophobia practised by governments and churches and other respectable figures right here in Canada.

My duty as to homophobia is to combat it here. My duty as to war and imperial domination and threats to national sovereignty is to ally with those fighting it everywhere. You don't have to agree with me, but you may as well have my viewpoint in print.

Caissa

We do disagree Unionist. I believe we have a duty to support human rights at home and abroad.

I think Chavez party can win the election and extend the revolution without resorting to homophobia. 

Unionist

Caissa wrote:

We do disagree Unionist. I believe we have a duty to support human rights at home and abroad.

I'm not sure what supporting human rights abroad means, in the wake of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Mali, Iran, Syria, and the rest. Someone will need to spell that out for me.

Quote:
I think Chavez party can win the election and extend the revolution without resorting to homophobia. 

I have no idea whether Chavez's party can win or not. That is truly, deeply, none of my business as a Canadian. I do know it's our duty, as Canadians, to oppose any form of domination of Venezuela, or anywhere else, by foreign imperialism - and that that duty is not overriden by the offensive language or attitudes of those who are resisting that domination.

 

6079_Smith_W

This is interesting, but do we have a "criticism equals counter-revolution, yes or no?" thread open somewhere?

Not that I think this is going to get resolved anytime soon (and I suspect you know my position) but this ping pong game could go on forever.

Unionist

6079_Smith_W wrote:

This is interesting, but do we have a "criticism equals counter-revolution, yes or no?" thread open somewhere?

 

That's exactly how Jeff House would have formulated this issue. Well done.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I would bet a lot o money that a good reporter based in Venezuela could find lots of juicy tidbits from the mouths of the right wing 0.1% party that opposes the people's party.  Strange though our media only highlight things that are detrimental to one side.

Caissa have you posted in thee Israeli sites all the homophobic stuff that regularly spews out of the mouths of the murderous Zionists? Also maybe you can tell me who Jeff House is and when Facebook became a news service?  I am one of those people who doesn't do Facebook because of data mining and privacy issues so I have no way of even following up the story you posted. Also I don't speak Spanish so the video clip is incomprehensible to me.

Of course homophobia is to be condemned but my understanding is that in most Latin American countries it is endemic and so without further info it looks to me like cherry picking to defeat a party that has increased literacy, health care, women's rights and by the way also legalized homosexuality in 1999 and tried to extend rights further in the 2007 constitutional referendum that was defeated by the same oligarchy that is now trying to use this as an issue.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

If Canada hadn't burned its bridges in our Prime Minister's shameful declaration of glee at Chavez's death, or our tacit support of US-backed neoliberal moves to wrest national sovereignty from the Venezuelan people, perhaps we could have a conversation with Naduro about how best to show international solidarity with oppressed groups that could include discussion on non-oppressive language.

As it stands, it has about the same scent of authenticity as the demands that Hamas come out in support of gay marriage.

Slumberjack

We don't actually have a mainstream media.  We have a daily propaganda feed into our every nook and cranny capable of being communicated through.  Jeff House was a regular around here way back when.  I think he was sent packing at some point.

Caissa

Criticism does not equal counter-revolution in my mind.  I think any left-wing group should be able to stand up to scrutiny.

6079_Smith_W

Unionist wrote:

That's exactly how Jeff House would have formulated this issue. Well done.

Right.

Unionist, I agree with you on some of this (most of it, actually). Yes there is a great deal of imperialist pressure and direct interference in that country. Yes ostendibly valid criticism is sometimes used as a smear tactic and a front for that pressure.

The problem is I see it as a matter of degrees; when the justification is this absolute non-interference thing you inevitably wind up getting caught in your own net, because at some level we are all connected and we all have influence.

Those "U.S. agents"? I may not agree with them, and have no doubt they have some dealings with the U.S., but I'd say they are Venezuelans with their own system of power who make their own decisions for themselves.Venezuela has an opposition? Good thing I say. Someone has to keep them honest, same as every other government.

And the interference that has happened between Venezuela, Cuba, and other countries in that region might be of the kind that we support, but it is outside interference nevertheless.

As for this homophobia post, sure it is good to point out the source and its biases and ulterior motive, but my guess is that we all know that. Why do we need to protect ourselves?

Here's a take on the issue from a government-friendly source.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/6910

And the issue is current. At least Capriles wants it to be so, as he held a news conference about it yesterday.

 

 

Unionist

6079_Smith_W wrote:

 

Here's a take on the issue from a government-friendly source.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/6910

And the issue is current. At least Capriles wants it to be so, as he held a news conference about it yesterday.

 

Wonderful article - thanks for that! I guess I should follow that site a bit more.

And now I'll be ready for "Chavez's party hates Jews" too!

Victory to the Venezuelan people in safeguarding their gains against the monsters of this world!

 

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

"Here's a take on the issue from a government-friendly source."  Thx for posting the link 6079

Quote:

Whilst homophobia continues to be a serious cultural problem within Venezuela, as it does within Latin America as a whole, LGBT groups are growing and are increasingly present in the public eye; organising marches and awareness campaigns which did not exist before Chavez was elected.

Whereas the first gay Pride March was held in 2000, just a year after Chavez took office, they have since been held annually under police protection and with representatives of the state present. Equally, whilst all types of discrimination are outlawed in the 1999 Constitution, the government tried to amend this in 2007 to specifically include discrimination based on sexual orientation; although this was narrowly defeated in a national referendum as part of a broader set of constitutional reforms. In July 2009, the National Assembly also voted to pass a bill for gender equality through the first round of discussion. If passed, this law would recognise civil unions, the rights of cohabiting same sex couples to equal economic and civil benefits as heterosexual partnerships, and recognise the rights of those who "change their sex by surgical or other procedures... to be recognized by their identity and to obtain or modify documents associated with their identification”.

Paradoxically, whilst the revolution continues to grapple with the issue of homophobia both internally and externally, the opposition barely manages to throw together anything that even resembles a coherent gender equality or LGBTI proposal.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/6910

 

6079_Smith_W

Not to say there isn't still a story, but it looks like the smoking gun here is indeed something that Maduro said, and for which he publicly apologized a year ago:

http://www.eluniversal.com/nacional-y-politica/11-de-abril/120416/maduro...

As the previous story said, there were some claims in the western press that Chavez himself said something similar, but they were retracted.

(edit)

Cross posted with you.

Did you read the story, Unionist?

I think they could use an editor, because the real story (which I just mentioned)  is buried. But that is the gist of it.

contrarianna

Caissa wrote:

Criticism does not equal counter-revolution in my mind.  I think any left-wing group should be able to stand up to scrutiny.

[Oops I see there were several people just posted one of my links prior to me. Good]

Scrutiny is good, but is that what it is?

Does the West/Opposition propaganda circus with its tsunami of hand wringing over homophobia by the Venezuelan government exist impartially, and independently, from the massive efforts to undermine an independent Valenzuela?  You might want to consider the recently released 40,000 Venezuelan Wikileaks documents on what amounts US/corporate/opposition collusion in covert warfare:

http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/53422

I'm sure human rights and various identity politics issues are played by elements of both opposition and Gov. in the Venezuelan media climate (where Rush Limbaugh would seem the norm) and criticisms abound of Chavez, "the Andean monkey" (Chavez had indigenous heritage).
 
Here is a different "scrutiny" obviously from a more pro-Government perspective:

Quote:
Capriles, Homophobia, Anti-Semitism and Systemic Violence: Understanding the Venezuelan Elections

By Rachael Boothroyd, Venezuelanalysis.com, April 5th 2012... 

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/6910

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Venezuela to probe Chavez cancer poisoning accusation

Quote:
Acting President Nicolas Maduro vowed to open an investigation into the claims, first raised by Chavez after he was diagnosed with the disease in 2011. "We will seek the truth," Maduro told regional TV network Telesur. "We have the intuition that our commander Chavez was
poisoned by dark forces that wanted him out of the way."  Foreign scientists will be invited to join a state committee to probe the accusation, he said.
  

 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

double post

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