Hugo Chavez, RIP

538 posts / 0 new
Last post
Slumberjack

RDP wrote:
A country with that much wealth should not be experiencing these problems.  The people of Venezuela should be enjoying the best of times, not the worst of times.  Columbia does not have the oil wealth of Venezuela.  "Criminals are the ones to blame for any crime"? I thought the left wing view was that poverty was to blame for crime.  Socialism does not work.  It looks great on paper, but it does not work.

If we say that Capitalism spends an inordinate amount of other people's money around the world on security and surveillance to protect it's investments, in every facet of life that we can imagine because it feels besieged by enemies, then capitalism can only work in an atmosphere of ever expanding contingencies against whatever social objections and actions that the system gives rise to.  Capitalism makes it clear everyday through public broadcasts in it's media organizations that it feels besieged and threatened by enemies, even amongst general populations that it says it is working on behalf of.  Enemies are even created from those nations who mind their own business within their own countries, and who do not have the capacity to threaten other nations.  Merely the presence of a desire for a different economic system is insult enough for capitalists.  Similarly, Venezuelan socialism is beset by enemies who cannot tolerate people working toward a successful, socialist society that rejects capitalist models for itself.  Wherever socialism emerges, it is usually ringed by enemies and infiltrated in extremely violent ways, and when socialist governments spend too much time reacting, and less resources are put at the disposal of the masses, this is described by capitalists as failure even as they're the initiators of the situation.  Usually the capitalist scumbags and their supporters don't find it curious at all that 1000s of arrests and beatings of protesters in Capitalist nations, under-reported and misrepresented as they are in the capitalist media, is never seen as the system not working out so well.  Suppression of dissent is seen as the success and triumph of law and order, which as we're told is an integral part of capitalist societies.  Dissenters are seen, even among some nominal leftists, as criminals and terrorists who at the very least are placed on lists, presumably for currently unspecified attention in the event that capitalism deems such attention necessary.  We can never be sure when this might be determined, but we can be quite sure that everything is being watched and recorded toward purposes that they're not letting on.  To say socialism doesn't work is to neglect how beautifully it works around the world for capitalist industry and the financial sector, which is a statement consistent with myopic ignorance if you ask me.  It's when somebody else comes up with the idea of expanding socialism to the masses, and after all manner of violence and subterfuge are thrown against it, that socialism is depicted as a failure.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Well that was just a great post by Slumberjack.

ETA: To the hall of fame, sir.

Red Winnipeg

RDP wrote:

The people of Venezuela should be enjoying the best of times, not the worst of times.

They are not experiencing "the worst of times". And Venezuela does not prove that "Socialism does not work."

But, I do think that Venezuela could be experiencing a much better economy. Venezuela has not taken advantage of its oil wealth (which is relatively temporary) to establish a robust non-oil-based economy. Chavez did successfully shift wealth from the rich (and middle class) to the poor. But he didn't take the next, and much more difficult step, of creating a sustainable economy that is not wholly dependent on oil.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Makes sense that crime is under control where the Bolivarian National Police operate. It also makes sense that it isn't where the right wing Mayor of Caracas or the gang controlled Mayor of San Cristobal have policing control and means for initmidation in the latter case. Chavez/Maduro's failed opposition candidate Capriles is the Governor of Miranda where Caracas is situated is obviously not interested in making the President look good and has done little to discourage a violent opposition.

Lots of good background with translations at this blog site:

http://www.sabinabecker.com/

As for what the socialists are doing with all that oil wealth... a f&ck of a lot more than anyone else has been doing with exploiting their natural resources. Translation from an open letter:

Quote:

Have you investigated the levels of nutrition and health in the people of Venezuela, how they have improved in the last 15 years? Have you observed the growth in primary healthcare services?

Have you investigated the indices of education, how illiteracy has been eradicated, how there are fewer school drop-outs, how millions of adults have completed their high school diplomas and are now at university? Have you seen how the people are now more awake, more alert?

Have you investigated how they are resolving the housing deficit in our country, with the construction of new homes and the remodeling of entire neighborhoods?

 

 

The issue of economic hardship is also addressed in the same open letter:

Quote:

It’s true that there is an asymmetry with respect to the international “market”. In Venezuela, basic products and services are accessible to the majority, the price indices are well below the international levels. This generates a pressure toward the contraband of extraction. Anti-patriotic sectors illegally hoard tonnes of products of first necessity to sell them out of country. For that reason there is a scarcity of goods, because insensible persons think more of themselves and not of others, and prefer to send products abroad.

Also, the US is investing millions of dollars to cause an imbalance in our economic system. It is fueling speculation, hoarding, financing the “businessmen” with dollars so that they have an income even though they aren’t selling anything.

On the other hand, the Bolivarian government has seen the greatest growth in earnings. Have you investigated what are the indices of acceptable earnings where you live? Because in Venezuela, it has risen 30%, which is excessive in any other country. But did you know that here, there are gains in earnings of 100%, 1,000%, even 10,000%? That is immoral.

In Spanish:

[url=http://www.aporrea.org/actualidad/a182451.html]Carta a una amiga en el exterior[/url] 

English translation:

 

[url=http://www.sabinabecker.com/2014/02/a-letter-from-venezuela.html]A letter from Venezuela[/url]

 

RDP

Socialism always leads to a collapsing economy and therefore misery.  Why?  Socialism is incompatible with human nature.

I'll use a fictional, extreme anecdotal analogy to prove my point.

Imagine me and you work in a factory creating widgets.  We do this in a capitalistic economy and in a socialistic economy.  In the capitalistic economy we are paid per widget constructed and in the socialistic economy we are all paid the same.  Lets say you can make two widgets for every one widget I make.  Whose behaviour changes, mine or yours, in each economic regime?  In the capitalistic economy I figure out quite quickly that you are making double what I make in both widgets and pay.  My behaviour will change.  I will watch you, learn from you, ask you questions, etc so that I can increase the amount of widgets I make and therefore the pay I receive.  I will become more productive.

In the socialistic economy, eventually you will say"what benefit do I get for being twice as productive as him (me)".  Eventually you will conclude that the system is unfair towards you; the very productive worker.  Your behaviour will change.  You will daydream a little more.  Think about dinner instead of producing widgets.  The amount of widgets you create with decline.  My behavior will not change.  Why would it?  There is no direct benefit to putting in more effort.

This is human nature.  No getting around it.  "To each according to their needs; from each according to their abilities" is a rip-off for those with ability.

RDP

Socialism always leads to a collapsing economy and therefore misery.  Why?  Socialism is incompatible with human nature.

I'll use a fictional, extreme anecdotal analogy to prove my point.

Imagine me and you work in a factory creating widgets.  We do this in a capitalistic economy and in a socialistic economy.  In the capitalistic economy we are paid per widget constructed and in the socialistic economy we are all paid the same.  Lets say you can make two widgets for every one widget I make.  Whose behaviour changes, mine or yours, in each economic regime?  In the capitalistic economy I figure out quite quickly that you are making double what I make in both widgets and pay.  My behaviour will change.  I will watch you, learn from you, ask you questions, etc so that I can increase the amount of widgets I make and therefore the pay I receive.  I will become more productive.

In the socialistic economy, eventually you will say"what benefit do I get for being twice as productive as him (me)".  Eventually you will conclude that the system is unfair towards you; the very productive worker.  Your behaviour will change.  You will daydream a little more.  Think about dinner instead of producing widgets.  The amount of widgets you create with decline.  My behavior will not change.  Why would it?  There is no direct benefit to putting in more effort.

This is human nature.  No getting around it.  "To each according to their needs; from each according to their abilities" is a rip-off for those with ability.

lagatta

Balderdash.

onlinediscountanvils

RDP wrote:
I'll use a fictional, extreme anecdotal analogy to prove my point.

Ill use this broken toaster oven to disprove your point.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Army to Combat “Grave” Opposition Disorder near Colombian Border

The Venezuelan government is to send two army battalions to Táchira state, which borders Colombia, to combat a “grave” case of opposition-promoted disorder in the area.

According to press reports and an eyewitness testimony provided to Venezuelanalysis.com, the capital city of Táchira state, San Cristóbal, has been almost brought to a standstill in recent days by street barricades set up by hard-line opposition activists.

According to such reports, in recent days almost no transport has been able to circulate, while the great majority of shops and businesses have been closed. Authorities warn that the street blockades are impeding the delivery of food and gasoline, and claim that transport workers have been threatened.

The government also suspects that “paramilitaries and criminal gangs” are involved in the actions, with the complicity of the local opposition mayor, Daniel Ceballos.....

http://zcomm.org/znetarticle/army-to-combat-grave-opposition-disorder-ne...

RDP

Army to Combat “Grave” Opposition Disorder near Colombian Border   

Thank you for that unbiased article.  I enjoyed reading it.  I also enjoyed reading "Who put the S in socialism" and "We are open minded - as long as you agree with us" but I particularily liked "Capitalistic states have mass graves too" eventhough the article did not state where.

 

Do you really think the mainstream press would not report this?  In a capitalistic state reporters want to "scoop" the story.  In a socialistic state they get a bullet in the head when they scoop an anti-governmental story.

Unionist

RDP wrote:

In a socialistic state they get a bullet in the head when they scoop an anti-governmental story.

I'm sorry for your head injury and how it has affected your analytical skills.

RDP

Good point.  You changed my mind.

Unionist

It's what we do when parts wear out.

Aristotleded24

RDP wrote:
I'll use a fictional, extreme anecdotal analogy to prove my point.

Imagine me and you work in a factory creating widgets.  We do this in a capitalistic economy and in a socialistic economy.  In the capitalistic economy we are paid per widget constructed and in the socialistic economy we are all paid the same.  Lets say you can make two widgets for every one widget I make.  Whose behaviour changes, mine or yours, in each economic regime?  In the capitalistic economy I figure out quite quickly that you are making double what I make in both widgets and pay.  My behaviour will change.  I will watch you, learn from you, ask you questions, etc so that I can increase the amount of widgets I make and therefore the pay I receive.  I will become more productive.

In the socialistic economy, eventually you will say"what benefit do I get for being twice as productive as him (me)".  Eventually you will conclude that the system is unfair towards you; the very productive worker.  Your behaviour will change.  You will daydream a little more.  Think about dinner instead of producing widgets.  The amount of widgets you create with decline.  My behavior will not change.  Why would it?  There is no direct benefit to putting in more effort.

You're right, it is fictional in the extreme. While there are some sales people who are paid comission based on how much they sell (which is generally pretty annoying because you can tell they're after your money ASAP and couldn't care less about making sure your needs are met) people in any company are generally paid "the same." The rules for change in pay are generally not dependent on production, but other factors, for example, if there is a collective agreement, or you get a raise as soon as you're off probation, or a raise at certain time periods, promotions, or the manager arbitrarily decides who to pay more. And before you give me this crap about the private sector creating jobs, I suspect you've never actually been in a position to make decisions about staffing levels. I have, and I can assure you that even in good times, companies are always trying to figure out how to do this work with less people.

By the way, thank you for the compliment of posting to these boards. It shows that our ideas are gaining currency among the public.

Aristotleded24

Red Winnipeg wrote:
I do think that Venezuela could be experiencing a much better economy. Venezuela has not taken advantage of its oil wealth (which is relatively temporary) to establish a robust non-oil-based economy. Chavez did successfully shift wealth from the rich (and middle class) to the poor. But he didn't take the next, and much more difficult step, of creating a sustainable economy that is not wholly dependent on oil.

Good question. So how does Venezuela carry this out?

Aristotleded24

laine lowe wrote:
Makes sense that crime is under control where the Bolivarian National Police operate. It also makes sense that it isn't where the right wing Mayor of Caracas or the gang controlled Mayor of San Cristobal have policing control and means for initmidation in the latter case. Chavez/Maduro's failed opposition candidate Capriles is the Governor of Miranda where Caracas is situated is obviously not interested in making the President look good and has done little to discourage a violent opposition.

I find that to be petty in the extreme. In Canada and the US, co-operation across party lines is common between the different levels of government, and it is generally expected. The most famous example of this is the collaboration between New Jersey Governer Christy and President Obama in the aftermath of hurricane Sandy, and when asked about the politics, Christie's answer boiled down to "f%&@ that, my state is underwater, my citizens need help, and helping them is more important."

RDP

Generally speaking people are paid what they are worth.  If they are overpaid they will eventually be fired.  If they are underpaid the onus is on them to negotiate a higher salary or find a new employer that will pay them what they are worth.

Companies want to pay as little as possible while at the same time attract and retain workers.  These competing interests generate a fair salary.  

Often employees feel underpaid when they are not.  Increase your productivity and you will become more valuable to the company and they won't want to lose you to the competition so they give you a raise.

NorthReport

This is just more right-wing nonsense, that those in power keep spewing out to ensure those without power never ever get power. 

If we reduced the billions being sucked out of our economies for defence and security contracts, there would be tons on money around to pay a minimum wage of $20 an hour across the planet.

Exclusive Essay: Anatomy of the Deep State

 February 21, 2014by Mike Lofgren

The U.S. Capitol is seen in Washington, Monday, June 17, 2013. (AP Photo/J. Scott Applewhite)

Rome lived upon its principal till ruin stared it in the face. Industry is the only true source of wealth, and there was no industry in Rome. By day the Ostia road was crowded with carts and muleteers, carrying to the great city the silks and spices of the East, the marble of Asia Minor, the timber of the Atlas, the grain of Africa and Egypt; and the carts brought out nothing but loads of dung. That was their return cargo.

 The Martyrdom of Man by Winwood Reade (1871)

There is the visible government situated around the Mall in Washington, and then there is another, more shadowy, more indefinable government that is not explained in Civics 101 or observable to tourists at the White House or the Capitol. The former is traditional Washington partisan politics: the tip of the iceberg that a public watching C-SPAN sees daily and which is theoretically controllable via elections. The subsurface part of the iceberg I shall call the Deep State, which operates according to its own compass heading regardless of who is formally in power. [1]

During the last five years, the news media has been flooded with pundits decrying the broken politics of Washington. The conventional wisdom has it that partisan gridlock and dysfunction have become the new normal. That is certainly the case, and I have been among the harshest critics of this development. But it is also imperative to acknowledge the limits of this critique as it applies to the American governmental system. On one level, the critique is self-evident: In the domain that the public can see, Congress is hopelessly deadlocked in the worst manner since the 1850s, the violently rancorous decade preceding the Civil War.

 

Yes, there is another government concealed behind the one that is visible at either end of Pennsylvania Avenue, a hybrid entity of public and private institutions ruling the country…As I wrote in The Party is Over, the present objective of congressional Republicans is to render the executive branch powerless, at least until a Republican president is elected (a goal that voter suppression laws in GOP-controlled states are clearly intended to accomplish). President Obama cannot enact his domestic policies and budgets: Because of incessant GOP filibustering, not only could he not fill the large number of vacancies in the federal judiciary, he could not even get his most innocuous presidential appointees into office. Democrats controlling the Senate have responded by weakening the filibuster of nominations, but Republicans are sure to react with other parliamentary delaying tactics. This strategy amounts to congressional nullification of executive branch powers by a party that controls a majority in only one house of Congress. 

 

Despite this apparent impotence, President Obama can liquidate American citizens without due processes, detain prisoners indefinitely without charge, conduct dragnet surveillance on the American people without judicial warrant and engage in unprecedented — at least since the McCarthy era — witch hunts against federal employees (the so-called “Insider Threat Program”). Within the United States, this power is characterized by massive displays of intimidating force by militarized federal, state and local law enforcement. Abroad, President Obama can start wars at will and engage in virtually any other activity whatsoever without so much as a by-your-leave from Congress, such as arranging the forced landing of a plane carrying a sovereign head of state over foreign territory. Despite the habitual cant of congressional Republicans about executive overreach by Obama, the would-be dictator, we have until recently heard very little from them about these actions — with the minor exception of comments from gadfly Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky. Democrats, save a few mavericks such as Ron Wyden of Oregon, are not unduly troubled, either — even to the extent ofpermitting seemingly perjured congressional testimony under oath by executive branch officials on the subject of illegal surveillance.

These are not isolated instances of a contradiction; they have been so pervasive that they tend to be disregarded as background noise. During the time in 2011 when political warfare over the debt ceiling was beginning to paralyze the business of governance in Washington, the United States government somehow summoned the resources to overthrow Muammar Ghaddafi’s regime in Libya, and, when the instability created by that coup spilled over into Mali, provide overt and covert assistance to French intervention there. At a time when there was heated debate about continuing meat inspections and civilian air traffic control because of the budget crisis, our government was somehow able to commit $115 million to keeping a civil war going in Syria and to pay at least£100m to the United Kingdom’s Government Communications Headquarters to buy influence over and access to that country’s intelligence. Since 2007, two bridges carrying interstate highways have collapsed due to inadequate maintenance of infrastructure, one killing 13 people. During that same period of time, the government spent $1.7 billion constructing a building in Utah that is the size of 17 football fields. This mammoth structure is intended to allow the National Security Agency to store a yottabyte of information, the largest numerical designator computer scientists have coined. A yottabyte is equal to 500 quintillion pages of text. They need that much storage to archive every single trace of your electronic life.

Yes, there is another government concealed behind the one that is visible at either end of Pennsylvania Avenue, a hybrid entity of public and private institutions ruling the country according to consistent patterns in season and out, connected to, but only intermittently controlled by, the visible state whose leaders we choose. My analysis of this phenomenon is not an exposé of a secret, conspiratorial cabal; the state within a state is hiding mostly in plain sight, and its operators mainly act in the light of day. Nor can this other government be accurately termed an “establishment.” All complex societies have an establishment, a social network committed to its own enrichment and perpetuation. In terms of its scope, financial resources and sheer global reach, the American hybrid state, the Deep State, is in a class by itself. That said, it is neither omniscient nor invincible. The institution is not so much sinister (although it has highly sinister aspects) as it is relentlessly well entrenched. Far from being invincible, its failures, such as those in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, are routine enough that it is only the Deep State’s protectiveness towards its higher-ranking personnel that allows them to escape the consequences of their frequent ineptitude. [2]

 

 

 

http://billmoyers.com/2014/02/21/anatomy-of-the-deep-state/

RDP wrote:

Generally speaking people are paid what they are worth.  If they are overpaid they will eventually be fired.  If they are underpaid the onus is on them to negotiate a higher salary or find a new employer that will pay them what they are worth.

Companies want to pay as little as possible while at the same time attract and retain workers.  These competing interests generate a fair salary.  

 

 

RDP wrote:

Generally speaking people are paid what they are worth.  If they are overpaid they will eventually be fired.  If they are underpaid the onus is on them to negotiate a higher salary or find a new employer that will pay them what they are worth.

Companies want to pay as little as possible while at the same time attract and retain workers.  These competing interests generate a fair salary.  

Often employees feel underpaid when they are not.  Increase your productivity and you will become more valuable to the company and they won't want to lose you to the competition so they give you a raise.

NDPP

BFP: What You Should Know About the Ukraine-Style Anti-Government Protests in Venezuela

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2014/02/21/what-you-should-know-about-th...

"The Venezuelan autocrats of the past are now masquerading as democrats with the aim of just getting all their old privileges back.

The US-supported opposition in the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela is taking its cue from the anti-government protests taking place across the Atlantic Ocean in Ukraine.

The aim of these opposition leaders in Venezuela is to manipulate the galvanized anti-government protesters to create a political crisis in Caracas."

Aristotleded24

RDP wrote:
Often employees feel underpaid when they are not.  Increase your productivity and you will become more valuable to the company and they won't want to lose you to the competition so they give you a raise.

Or you get a pink slip when the company boss has decided that the work your unit does will either be done by robots or in a third world country with no labour standards where people work like slaves for 14 hours a day and next to no pay.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

When social media becomes a joke:

Quote:

Despite hashtags like #SOSVenezuela and #PrayForVenezuela and retweets from @Cher and @Madonna, these protests have far more to do with returning economic and political elites to power than with their downfall.

Venezuela’s “Bolivarian Revolution” leapt forth from the historical collision of radical social movements against a repressive, neoliberal state. Fifteen years ago, Hugo Chávez was elected president of Venezuela amid the collapsing rubble of the old two-party system, but the “revolution” over which he would preside has far deeper roots. For decades, armed guerrillas, peasants and workers, women, Afro- and indigenous Venezuelans, students and the urban poor struggled against a system that—while formally democratic—was far from it in practice.

http://www.thenation.com/article/178496/lasalida-venezuela-crossroads#

 

NDPP

Stop The Right-Wing Coup! Defend the Venezuelan Revolution! - Toronto: Thurs, Feb 27, 2014, Thurs March 6

https://www.facebook.com/events/223598071179191/

"In the streets of Caracas and across Venezuela we are seeing a battle between two camps, revolution and counter revolution..."

Unionist

From epaulo13's link:

Steve Ellner wrote:

U.S. Policy Toward Venezuela: Seeing The Larger Picture

Since the 1990s, many critics of the U.S. have accused Washington of promoting the dismemberment of nations such as Yugoslavia, in accordance with neoliberalism’s drive to weaken central governments and nation states.

Strange "analysis". Neoliberalism? Imperialism, in whatever of its economic varieties, promotes either strong or weak central governments according to its specific needs to penetrate and dominate. I wonder how he would explain Québec and Scotland and East Timor...

Quote:
Today, Washington’s official policy in nations like Syria and now the Ukraine has been support for rebels that are trying to overthrow the government, even though their chances of success are minimal.

First, it's not called "the Ukraine". Second, his powers of prediction don't seem to be good for 24 hours - something like Environment Canada's weather reports.

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..the #219 post made a connection with ukraine. here's another.

U.S. Policy Toward Venezuela: Seeing The Larger Picture

Since the 1990s, many critics of the U.S. have accused Washington of promoting the dismemberment of nations such as Yugoslavia, in accordance with neoliberalism’s drive to weaken central governments and nation states. Today, Washington’s official policy in nations like Syria and now the Ukraine has been support for rebels that are trying to overthrow the government, even though their chances of success are minimal. In the case of Syria, the U.S. has provided material support for rebels, while in the case of the Ukraine the Obama administration has threatened the government with sanctions even though the dissidents are armed and have attacked security forces. Regardless of one’s evaluation of the two governments (and I’m not defending either one), it could be said that regime change in highly unlikely. The best-case political scenario for those opposed to both governments would be a prolonged armed conflict, perhaps even civil war. The worst-case political scenario for them would be government consolidation and the complete defeat of the rebels. Washington obviously knows this.  Could it be that in cases of governments considered adverse to U.S. interests, Washington prefers a civil war over a normal situation free of discord and violence?...

quote:

Washington along with the opposition leaders are banking on a wearing out process, what is known as “low intensity war.” It may work. It did in Nicaragua in the 1980s. Nicaraguan voters in 1990 felt that the only way to end the ongoing violence was by electing a “moderate,” namely Violeta Chamorro (whose candidacy and party received millions of dollars from the U.S.). A similar scenario may play out in Venezuela. Capriles very skillfully is positioning himself to play the role of “moderate” (he even calls himself a “progressive”) and has distanced himself from López, particularly on the social front (even though both come from the upper class). He states the only way for the opposition to triumph is by getting support from the popular classes, a position which represents an indirect criticism of López for overestimating subjective conditions. In short, Capriles is following the “Chamorro strategy.”...

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/10397

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

That widget analogy is hilariously inept. Who the heck would be producing widgets under socialism anyway? Bad capitalists bitter about the new regime, I can only guess.

Everyone else would be fishing, baking bread or gardening. And making 10$ microwaves, of course.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..from what i wrote in the #223 post, i removed "the" from in front of ukraine. txs unionist!

RDP

What would you do if Stephen Harper jailed Justin Trudeau, shut down the CBC and CTV and suspended internet service in some cities and blocked what it deemed inflamatory twitter messages?  That is what the government in Venezuela is doing now.

onlinediscountanvils

RDP wrote:
What would you do if Stephen Harper jailed Justin Trudeau, shut down the CBC and CTV and suspended internet service in some cities and blocked what it deemed inflamatory twitter messages?  That is what the government in Venezuela is doing now.

I think you've been misinformed. I just checked, and the CBC and CTV are still on the air and online. My twitter feed is filled with inflammatory tweets, and I'm able to post this via the Internet. Although, I'll conceed that I haven't seen Justin this morning. What jail is he in?

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

If Stephen Harper shut down CTV I would celebrate in the streets, obviously.

Unionist

This:

[url=http://newpol.org/content/february-traumas-third-insurrectionary-moment-... Third Insurrectionary Moment of the Venezuelan Right[/url]

Quote:
For seasoned observers of Venezuelan politics, the events of the past week are a disheartening repetition of opposition-led resistance efforts that have yet again sought to undermine political stability in the country. This is not the first time in recent history that the opposition has resorted to “extra-parliamentary” tactics, including violence, to push their political agenda. Nor is it the first time that the mainstream media has provided generous airtime to opposition demonstrations in Caracas, repeating the sob stories of upper class Venezuelans “repressed” by the government because they cannot find toilet paper on the store shelves, or in a more laughable episode, ingredients to bake a cake.

NDPP

Venezuela: The Left, Context, Prices and the Market  -  by Roland Denis

http://upsidedownworld.org/main/venezuela-archives-35/4720-venezuela-the...

"How shall we put today's revolutionary left in Venezuela into context?

Is the Left a movement of transformative actions, or is it a simple ideological protocol that presupposes a pre-established discursive contract?

Off the bat we can count 15 years since this country has begun to refer to itself as a revolutionary process in action, with a government that identifies with the emancipatory ideals emanating from that process.

However, over the years, the revoutionary purpose seems to be losing more and more steam in face of the facts...

What we're left with is the Robinsonian preimise; right now, 'either we invent or we fail'..."

Unionist

[url=http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/owen-jones-socialisms-critic... Jones: Socialism’s critics look at Venezuela and say, ‘We told you so’. But they are wrong[/url]

 

NDPP

US Behind Undemocratic Chaos Seen in Ukraine and Venezuela - Andres Izarra, Cabinet Minister (and vid)

http://rt.com/shows/sophieco/ukraine-venezuela-undemocratic-chaos-036/

"...the universities, the young people in the universities, is where the US has chosen to promote their kind of extremist groups. We just expelled from our country three US diplomats because of their involvement in training, organization and financing of these extreme groups that use the University as their place to gather.

Russia knows very well the experience of the color revolutions, the velvet revolutions. This is the scheme that's being reproduced here. 

This is a political operation towards regime change, that is going on in Venezuela right now, financed and dictated by the US."

NDPP

Venezuela's Maduro Charges US With Fostering Ukraine-Style Coup

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/04/10/vene-a10.html

"Venezuela's President Nicolas Maduro has charged that Washington is fomenting a Ukrainian-style 'slow-motion' coup against his government in a bid to 'get their hands on Venezuelan oil'..."

RDP

http://www.cityam.com/article/1393351308/how-socialism-has-destroyed-ven...

79 murders per 100,000, rampant inflation and a massive clampdown on individual freedom.  After 14 years of socialist rule, one is warrented to ask where is the paradise.

RDP

http://www.cityam.com/article/1393351308/how-socialism-has-destroyed-ven...

79 murders per 100,000, rampant inflation and a massive clampdown on individual freedom.  After 14 years of socialist rule, one is warrented to ask where is the paradise.

Unionist

You have a lot of nerve, publishing toxic shit from the Cato Institute in a thread commemorating Hugo Chavez.

Plus you can't count, can't spell, and can't even figure out how to post once - so desperate to hit the "Post Comment" button that you lose control of your finger.

Don't they have any decent recreations in Alberta for right-wingers bored with unearned prosperity?

 

 

Glenl

Unionist wrote:

Don't they have any decent recreations in Alberta for right-wingers bored with unearned prosperity?

 

 

Nice drive-by.

Unionist

Glenl wrote:
Unionist wrote:

 

Don't they have any decent recreations in Alberta for right-wingers bored with unearned prosperity?

 

 

Nice drive-by.

Heh, sorry, I truly didn't mean to take a shot at Alberta - just at RDP, who [url=http://rabble.ca/columnists/2014/11/harper-knows-best-social-engineering... s/he's from there[/url]:

RDP wrote:

I love Alberta.  I grew up there.  And you are right about their tax structure.  I agree that the poor should be paying some tax.  Everyone has a stake in the system and therefore most people, more than currently is the case in Ontario, should be paying into the system.

Socialism does not work.  Ontario takes and redistributes more money than Alberta.  Ontarian society is less rich and less vibrant than Albertan society. 

And:

RDP wrote:

We are overtaxed.  Harper is trying to mitigate the situation.

I actually think we should defend Alberta from baseless accusations that it could give rise to the likes of RDP.

 

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

Unionist wrote:

Don't they have any decent recreations in Alberta for right-wingers bored with unearned prosperity?

Does waiting for the day when our Central Canadian Overlords freeze in the dark count? (You would think their self-righteousness would keep them warm... you would be wrong).

Unionist

bagkitty wrote:

Unionist wrote:

Don't they have any decent recreations in Alberta for right-wingers bored with unearned prosperity?

Does waiting for the day when our Central Canadian Overlords freeze in the dark count? (You would think their self-righteousness would keep them warm... you would be wrong).

In the years we've interacted here, you've never once said a civil thing to me, nor given me the benefit of the doubt when a post of mine might be ambiguous. My mission in life is to negotiate a ceasefire with you, followed by who knows what level of affection and admiration. I like you a whole lot more than you like me, so I'll try to take the lead.

 

NDPP

Falling Crude: Oil Prices Crush Venezuela's Ailing Economy

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102227316

"barbarity and people looting"

(It's CNBC, what do you expect, still...)

"Venezuela's oil revenue could face another threat aside from declining prices: approval of Keystone XL pipeline bill, which Congressional Republicans have vowed to bring back for another vote after they return to Capitol Hill in January.

If passed, the pipeline could mean that heavy crude from Canada would replace the crude Venezuela exports to United States..."

 

 

RDP

From Alberta live in Ontario.  Alberta is great by too cold.  Ontario is warm but too socialistic.  I take heat over politics.

RDP
thorin_bane

RDP wrote:

From Alberta live in Ontario.  Alberta is great by too cold.  Ontario is warm but too socialistic.  I take heat over politics.

I would type you're an idiot but that is a personal attack. So how about you show us just where is their any socialism in Canada? Or did Sun and fox give you some crazy notion that being fascist is now socialism.

So actually you have no convictions because Ontario isn't eaxctly florida.

Unionist

thorin_bane wrote:

I would type you're an idiot but that is a personal attack. 

Why would you even suspect for a moment that someone who gets their opinions from the Tampa Tribune is an idiot? Hmmm? Personally, it's right near the top of my list for thoughtful analysis of world trends in progressive movements. Right next to the Wall Street Journal.

Don't forget, we're talking about Florida, which is internationally famed for its [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_election_recount]fair and democratic election practices[/url]. Who better to critique dictatorship and tyranny abroad?

 

lagatta

Not only that, it is a huge province. Includes the warm microclimate protected by the Niagara Escarpment (peaches and wine!) but also Attawapiskat.

Thorin, this far-right troll is just here to piss people off. But please don't throw the term "fascism" around lightly.

As for Venezuela, its problems are typical of countries with a huge wealth differential. Neighbouring Colombia with a rightwing government has similar urban problems. The highest murder rate anywhere is in Honduras, and a spike in murders and other violent crimes was reported after the (rightwing) golpe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Honduras

RDP

Chavez came to power in 1999.  How long does it take to get the great paradise rolling?  Shouldn't income inequality be eliminated by now.  I am sure Canada has greater income inequality then Venezuela.  How come they have the greater problems?

lagatta

offensive comment reported. (Also factually inaccurate, except in terms of Indigenous Canadians).

6079_Smith_W

RDP wrote:

From Alberta live in Ontario.  Alberta is great by too cold.  Ontario is warm but too socialistic.  I take heat over politics.

Bad news. Perhaps you can't go home again:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/alberta/medicine-hats-ted-clugston-t...

 

Pages