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The Incomplete Greatness of Barack Obama

Sky Captain
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Joined: Jul 14 2008

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The Incomplete Greatness of Barack Obama

He’s gotten more done in three years than any president in decades. Too bad the American public still thinks he hasn’t accomplished anything.

By Paul Glastris

 



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Gaian
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lmarvelously detailed description of a black man's record in a racist society. But is this not news sown in a tight-sphinctered desert, here?

knownothing
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Joined: Mar 24 2011

Is this supposed to be a joke?

Obama is not your friend. The Democrats are not your friends. Wake up people! Remember Mouseland!


Gaian
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We have to go with what we've got, kn. In U.S. political circles, sanity is somethin'. Tommy would have understood.

Westcoast Granny
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NDPP
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Obama's Personal Role in A Journalist's Imprisonment  - by Glenn Greenwald

http://www.salon.com/2012/03/14/obamas_personal_role_in_a_journalists_im...

"...President Obama's personal, direct role in ensuring the ongoing imprisonment of a Yemeni journalist may be his most important one yet; even for those inured to the abuses of the Obama administration, it's nothing short of infuriating.."


Sky Captain
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Gaian wrote:
lmarvelously detailed description of a black man's record in a racist society. But is this not news sown in a tight-sphinctered desert, here?

 

It is a great summing up of a policitian who was revolutionary by dint of being the first black leader of a large WASP Western nation, and who did have successes despite what the far right and the left thought about him.

Everything else aside, you'd better hope that he does win the election this year, because if he dosen't, real facists will win the election, and then we'll all be screwed.


Sky Captain
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knownothing wrote:

Is this supposed to be a joke?

Obama is not your friend. The Democrats are not your friends. Wake up people! Remember Mouseland!

 

What would be the realistically electable left-wing alternative? Do you even have one to give the rest of us? And one that could beat Santorum and the rest of the GOP? Tell me, and the rest of us, now.


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 28 2008

"What Americans refuse to acknowledge is that to vote for either the Democratic or Republican nominee for President later this year is to vote for these horrors. It is TO SUPPORT THEM. Just admit that you're voting for Hitler, OK?"

http://rabble.ca/comment/1309271


Sky Captain
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NDPP wrote:

"What Americans refuse to acknowledge is that to vote for either the Democratic or Republican nominee for President later this year is to vote for these horrors. It is TO SUPPORT THEM. Just admit that you're voting for Hitler, OK?"

http://rabble.ca/comment/1309271

 

As I said before, if you have an alternative who can realsitically become President, then let the rest of us know. As it stands now, there isn't one. And calling Obama Hitler is only helping the left be considered as being just as extremist as the right.


Westcoast Granny
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Sky Captain wrote:

NDPP wrote:

"What Americans refuse to acknowledge is that to vote for either the Democratic or Republican nominee for President later this year is to vote for these horrors. It is TO SUPPORT THEM. Just admit that you're voting for Hitler, OK?"

http://rabble.ca/comment/1309271

 

As I said before, if you have an alternative who can realsitically become President, then let the rest of us know. As it stands now, there isn't one. And calling Obama Hitler is only helping the left be considered as being just as extremist as the right.

 

I was told to vote for Chretien, Martin, Dion and Igantieff by people using the same logic.  Never did vote for them for the same reason that if I was an American I wouldn't vote for Obama.  The NDP has yet to run in a federal election where they stood a chance of winning so by your logic it would seem that all the people who voted for them for 50 years were fools and left wing extremists.

By following your logic the USA will never have a party on the left, only a choice between black and white cats. Left wing political wins don't come easy in North America and never come in one election cycle. Building a political party takes decades and will not happen if people follow your advice.


M. Spector
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What next? A thread on the Incomplete Greatness of Stephen Harper?


MegB
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Sky Captain, we do not post articles in their entirety here -- a link and brief quote is enough.  I've edited your opening post to reflect that policy.


Bec.De.Corbin
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NDPP wrote:

"What Americans refuse to acknowledge is that to vote for either the Democratic or Republican nominee for President later this year is to vote for these horrors. It is TO SUPPORT THEM. Just admit that you're voting for Hitler, OK?"

http://rabble.ca/comment/1309271

 

LOL, just because you and that guy can't see the difference between Democrats and Republicans while you obsess over international politics is on you guys, not us.

And here's the perfect example why the left always fails in the USA: calling president Obama Hitler makes you leftist look just as dumb as the Tea Party bunch... that's why the majority of people, in the center, don't like nether one of you and that's why your group will never really have political power here in the USA; nobody really supports you guys because your just opposite side of the same coin with the far right... just saying.

You guys are your own worst enemy and you don't even know it.

 


Dostoyevsky
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Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

NDPP wrote:

"What Americans refuse to acknowledge is that to vote for either the Democratic or Republican nominee for President later this year is to vote for these horrors. It is TO SUPPORT THEM. Just admit that you're voting for Hitler, OK?"

http://rabble.ca/comment/1309271

LOL, just because you and that guy can't see the difference between Democrats and Republicans while you obsess over international politics is on you guys, not us.

And here's the perfect example why the left always fails in the USA: calling president Obama Hitler makes you leftist look just as dumb as the Tea Party bunch... that's why the majority of people, in the center, don't like nether one of you and that's why your group will never really have political power here in the USA; nobody really supports you guys because your just opposite side of the same coin with the far right... just saying.

You guys are your own worst enemy and you don't even know it.

 

 

 the things is Bec - they never have to question if they correct because any people who disagree are either evil or brainwashed. 

 


M. Spector
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Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

And here's the perfect example why the left always fails in the USA: calling president Obama Hitler makes you leftist look just as dumb as the Tea Party bunch... that's why the majority of people, in the center, don't like nether one of you and that's why your group will never really have political power here in the USA; nobody really supports you guys because your just opposite side of the same coin with the far right... just saying.

You guys are your own worst enemy and you don't even know it.

Calling Obomba "a serious candidate for greatness", as that laughable piece of propaganda does, makes you limousine liberals look just as dumb as the Tea Party bunch... That's why U.S. leftists don't like either of your imperialist parties; you are just opposite sides of the same debased coin... just saying.

You are your own worst enemies and you don't even know it.

- - -

ETA: See The Ongoing Effort to Sanitize Obama's Image


DaveW
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Obama has done a fairly good job in office; he will be re-elected

 one more time:

http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/03/barack-obamas-had-pretty-damn-good-presidency

 

 


Bec.De.Corbin
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M. Spector wrote:

Calling Obomba "a serious candidate for greatness", as that laughable piece of propaganda does, makes you limousine liberals look just as dumb as the Tea Party bunch... That's why U.S. leftists don't like either of your imperialist parties; you are just opposite sides of the same debased coin... just saying.

You are your own worst enemies and you don't even know it.

(Just to be clear to everyone else here there are the left and the right which is fine by me and then there's the Looney left/right, I'm referring to the later in these posts.)

Thank you for proving my point and the childishness was amusing, at least you didn't get all pious and self righteous. For the most part the US far left is as wacked out as the far right is. If a large segment of the US population believed in them then they would have real political power and a legitimate candidate that could run against those evil Democrats and Republicans. But... for some bizarre reason they don't. Why is that?

The unfortunate thing about US politics is the far right runs deeper in the Republican Party and there for has some real power as compared to the far left (which doesn't run as deep in the Democrats). As such, I'm much more concerned about the Tea Party idiots and their ilk than I am from the far left. My "rights" are being threatened more from them, the right, than from the left.  

 Oh, and I do not ride in a limousine, I drive a 10 year old Saturn, more proof you just don't know what you're talking about.

 I'm out of here. Everyone have a great weekend, you included M Spector.

 


NDPP
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Despair You Can Believe In  -  by Rob Urie

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/03/16/despair-you-can-believe-in/

"...My point is that increasingly institutionalized economic predation against US citizens combined with advanced police state powers will make life even more untenable for some fair number of us in coming years. Last, accept this trajectory of despair or do something."


Gaian
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We are required to be more circumspect with our use of descriptors here, BDC, but you cut to the chase quite nicely. As you see, Canada's multi-party system is not perfect, and the fringe still rails at the inadequacies of the language of proseletization rather than the vulnerability of the Great Misled, but it's clear we are not in such desperate straits as the U.S. political system. Please keep us plugged in with man-on-the-street reportage.It's likely to grow ever more bizaare and frightening.

Slumberjack
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Last, accept this trajectory of despair or do something.

Or both.  But the dystopia in evidence tells us it ain't gonna be easy.


Dostoyevsky
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Gaian wrote:
We are required to be more circumspect with our use of descriptors here, BDC, but you cut to the chase quite nicely. As you see, Canada's multi-party system is not perfect, and the fringe still rails at the inadequacies of the language of proseletization rather than the vulnerability of the Great Misled, but it's clear we are not in such desperate straits as the U.S. political system. Please keep us plugged in with man-on-the-street reportage.It's likely to grow ever more bizaare and frightening.

You do realize that "Great Misled" is no different than saying "Ignorant, brainwashed, suckers, ect.  You're trying to use a descriptor which implies an innocence on the part of the population and a sinister shadowy "group" who deliberately mislead them.

I'm sure it boosts your ego to think of them down there wallowing in their simple mindedness while you preach the glorious "truth".


Westcoast Granny
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The Koch brothers fund the Tea Party with enough money to give them a voice.  What else is there to understand about the far right's superior clout in the US system? 


A_J
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DaveW wrote:

Obama has done a fairly good job in office; he will be re-elected

 one more time:

http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/03/barack-obamas-had-pretty-damn-good-presidency

Pfft, Mother Jones?

Everyone knows they're just a mouth-piece for neo-con propaganda Wink


M. Spector
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Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

(Just to be clear to everyone else here there are the left and the right which is fine by me and then there's the Looney left/right, I'm referring to the later in these posts.)...

For the most part the US far left is as wacked out as the far right is....

The people you refer to as the "far left" (the "looney", "wacked-out" ones who don't worship at the altar of the Democratic Party) include people like the following:

• most of the social democrats and left liberals who write for, and read, Counterpunch, Common Dreams, Tom Dispatch, and Dissident Voice.

• wacked-out loonies like John Pilger, Chris Hedges, Chris Floyd, William Blum, Glenn Greenwald, Richard Falk, Paul Street, the late Howard Zinn, Cindy Sheehan, Roseanne Barr, Dave Lindorff, Joshua Frank, John V. Walsh, Kathy Kelly, David Swanson, and Paul Craig Roberts.    

• the 900,000 or so who voted for Cynthia McKinney and Ralph Nader in 2008.

Your inability to see beyond the two-party shell game blinds you to the fact that there is a substantial left current in the United States that is ready and willing to dump the Democratic Party if given half a chance.


Sky Captain
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Westcoast Granny wrote:
I was told to vote for Chretien, Martin, Dion and Igantieff by people using the same logic.  Never did vote for them for the same reason that if I was an American I wouldn't vote for Obama.  The NDP has yet to run in a federal election where they stood a chance of winning so by your logic it would seem that all the people who voted for them for 50 years were fools and left wing extremists.

By following your logic the USA will never have a party on the left, only a choice between black and white cats. Left wing political wins don't come easy in North America and never come in one election cycle. Building a political party takes decades and will not happen if people follow your advice.

Building a political party does indeed take decades. But I've not seen any evidence of hard work recently on the part of most North Americans to accomplish what's happened in Denmark, for example-all that I've seen is mass protests and 'Occupy' movements that end up getting crushed because the left couldn't do any detective work and keep the ultra thuggish extremist Black Block from harming the left-wing movement and scaring law enforcement/ordinary people/governments into supporting the draconian measures now used to handle protests. If people workd as hard to canvass, get votes and create a genuine party as they protested, then maybe they would get what they want, but they haven't done so. American leftists in general didn't seem to work hard enough to get Ralph Nader in office, and they even believed the idea that voting for him would have spoiled the election and caused McCain/Palin to be in office-what does that tell you about the left generally? (Another example: the supposedly left-wing rock group Rage Against The Machine-back in it's 90s heyday when they were signed to Epic/Sony-could have used whatever fame they had to get people to vote for the Green Party and the Socialist Party by setting up booth/tables at each concert and get a ton of votes for either party [they could have also got other groups/musicians similarly inclined to do the same thing.] Did they do this? No, they didn't! Instead, they went on singing the same stuff they always sing, believing that just singing about oppression will change things. Of course, we all know how that's worked out...)

The reason the center and the right have won in the USA (and will always probably do so) is because they knew how to play the game enough to get who they wanted to be elected get elected- a lesson the left has yet to learn from, IMHO. Running out in the streets and protesting didn't get Obama elected, or McCain and Palin where they almost were-it was getting out the vote, 'rocking' the vote, etc. that made Obama president. It was not extremist retoric that won the election; it was a sure message, and statements of policy that made this all happen for him and got him in power (plus the fact that the neocons and the GOP have nobody worthy enough to be president shooting themselves in the foot with every statement made.) Did the left do anything different? No, it did the same thing it always does, with the same result. So, here we are now in 2012 with nobody worth voting for from the left, again,  (and the same thing happening on the extreme right! Laughing) What 'logic' has been used by both sides here-the logic of doing the same thing for the same result? You know what's been said about that.

The thing is, Obama did have successes in what he was elected to do, as mentioned in this article and in the previous article that I posted about him (What The "Do Nothing" Obama Has Accomplished That We Choose To Ignore Or Fail To Acknowledge) last year. It is these successes that he should be congratulated and celebrated for by the extreme left and right, as well as the middle; instead, he's been pilloried by all sides, as if he was supposed to be a great wizard that would reverse everything wrong with America and the world in one term. Newsflash, my fellow humans; change dosen't happen that way, Obama is not an imperial president (and can't be one for the left), plus last time I checked, the USA, flawed though it is, was still a democracy. 

If the left there in the USA or here wants to get what it wants, it will have to take lessons from the right and the center in how to set up parties, field candadates, and win elections. That's the maximum and the minimum. It also has to realize when somebody that's a sure bet of getting things done does comes along, that person should be supported even though their policies may not be as super radical as one would want.

Quote:
The people you refer to as the "far left" (the "looney", "wacked-out" ones who don't worship at the altar of the Democratic Party) include people like the following:

• most of the social democrats and left liberals who write for, and read, Counterpunch, Common Dreams, Tom Dispatch, and Dissident Voice.

• wacked-out loonies like John Pilger, Chris Hedges, Chris Floyd, William Blum, Glenn Greenwald, Richard Falk, Paul Street, the late Howard Zinn, Cindy Sheehan, Roseanne Barr, Dave Lindorff, Joshua Frank, John V. Walsh, Kathy Kelly, David Swanson, and Paul Craig Roberts.    

• the 900,000 or so who voted for Cynthia McKinney and Ralph Nader in 2008.

Your inability to see beyond the two-party shell game blinds you to the fact that there is a substantial left current in the United States that is ready and willing to dump the Democratic Party if given half a chance.

The people mentioned can either do what I've said must be done to get a party started and a candidate fielded, or they will continue to wimper and weep as they've been doing now for the past while. It's their collective call.


M. Spector
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Sky Captain wrote:

It is these successes that he should be congratulated and celebrated for by the extreme left and right, as well as the middle; instead, he's been pilloried by all sides, as if he was supposed to be a great wizard that would reverse everything wrong with America and the world in one term. Newsflash, my fellow humans; change dosen't happen that way, Obama is not an imperial president (and can't be one for the left), plus last time I checked, the USA, flawed though it is, was still a democracy.

This kind of obscenity does not belong on a progressive discussion forum. Also, it runs completely against the anti-imperialist and anti-war-crimes political culture of babble.


Sky Captain
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How is what I've said an obscenity? The real thing is, you've not been able to counter what was said in the article, and just decided to blatantly call it obscene.

From a response to the Mother Jones article posted by Dave W above:

Quote:
Some progressives refuse to be bound by this silly "actual, existing human being" metric you propose, Kevin. They await the Kwisatz Haderach.

True here, as in the USA, sadly.

 


Gaian
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Dostoyevsky wrote:

Gaian wrote:
We are required to be more circumspect with our use of descriptors here, BDC, but you cut to the chase quite nicely. As you see, Canada's multi-party system is not perfect, and the fringe still rails at the inadequacies of the language of proseletization rather than the vulnerability of the Great Misled, but it's clear we are not in such desperate straits as the U.S. political system. Please keep us plugged in with man-on-the-street reportage.It's likely to grow ever more bizaare and frightening.

You do realize that "Great Misled" is no different than saying "Ignorant, brainwashed, suckers, ect.  You're trying to use a descriptor which implies an innocence on the part of the population and a sinister shadowy "group" who deliberately mislead them.

I'm sure it boosts your ego to think of them down there wallowing in their simple mindedness while you preach the glorious "truth".

I've had tussles with some folks about the use of that term, even when they had only a few minutes before written despairingly about the effect of TV and radio on the minds of their audiences. I await your more refined definition that will not offend liberal sensibilities. But please don't just leave a blank space where ";political consciousness" used to be the central area of discussion for the classic socialist. Political correctness will do that to you. Read something about the glorious art of successful propagandists sometime - Richard Viguerie and David Franke's America's Right Turn: How Conservatives Used New and Alternative Media to Take Power. Lwearn how a majority of Mississippi Re;publicans came to believe (polled two weeks ago)) that Obama is a Muslim. I don't take any satisfaction in taqlking about that kind of induced ignorance, but I do feel the need to stress that IT IS INDUCED. And through extensive reading, I'm not reduced to making ignorant effing remarks about others in this fashion: "I'm sure it;boosts your ego to think of them down there wallowing in their simple mindedness while you preach the glorious "truth". Understand how you have been conditioned in your PC cocoon.

A_J
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M. Spector wrote:

The people you refer to as the "far left" (the "looney", "wacked-out" ones who don't worship at the altar of the Democratic Party) include people like the following:

• most of the social democrats and left liberals who write for, and read, Counterpunch, Common Dreams, Tom Dispatch, and Dissident Voice.

• wacked-out loonies like John Pilger, Chris Hedges, Chris Floyd, William Blum, Glenn Greenwald, Richard Falk, Paul Street, the late Howard Zinn, Cindy Sheehan, Roseanne Barr, Dave Lindorff, Joshua Frank, John V. Walsh, Kathy Kelly, David Swanson, and Paul Craig Roberts.    

• the 900,000 or so who voted for Cynthia McKinney and Ralph Nader in 2008.

Your inability to see beyond the two-party shell game blinds you to the fact that there is a substantial left current in the United States that is ready and willing to dump the Democratic Party if given half a chance.

So all told, we're talking what? 1 million? Maybe 2 or 3 million in a nation of 313 million people?

By the way, Nader/McKinney got 738,475 votes in 2008, not 900,000.


M. Spector
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A_J wrote:

So all told, we're talking what? 1 million? Maybe 2 or 3 million in a nation of 313 million people?

There were only 131 million voters. Still, it was less than 1 percent. How many more millions felt the same way but voted for Obama out of irrational fear or ignorance? 

To hear the way you and your fellow Obamapologists talk, those million or so people are all far-left wack-jobs because they refused to vote for a war criminal.

A_J wrote:

By the way, Nader/McKinney got 738,475 votes in 2008, not 900,000.

Those were Nader's numbers. McKinney got 161,603. You do the math.


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