Iroquois Nationals To Play in Israel Face Controversy From Palestine Supporters

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NDPP
Iroquois Nationals To Play in Israel Face Controversy From Palestine Supporters

Iroquois Nationals To Play in Israel, Face Controversy From Palestine Supporters

https://newsmaven.io/indiancountrytoday/news/iroquois-nationals-to-play-...

"Palestinian groups have come forward to the Iroquois Nationals in a plea that the team abstain from the games."

WWWTT

Very controversial thread NDPP!

Both a political perspective and athletic perspective. 

In the football thread I already made my position well known how soccer is used by political forces to manipulate nationalism. But a lessor known and followed sport lacrosse having a political impact?

Dont know my position yet, maybe I’ll share after some reflection?

Add some more links with more perspectives if possible?

NDPP

Iroquois Nationals and Israel: A True Test of Values For the Haudenosaunee

https://newsmaven.io/indiancountrytoday/opinion/iroquois-nationals-and-i...

"Are we to participate in this years games in Israel given their ongoing genocide against Palestinians...?"

 

BDS South Africa: Please Boycott Apartheid Sport

https://twitter.com/BDSsouthafrica/status/1016232126344200197

"Apartheid Israel deserves the same treatment."

 

"I would urge all those that would like to see the Iroquois National Team withdraw from the World Lacrosse Tournament in Israel to send a message to  admin@onondaganation.org  . This is the Nation where the Iroquois Grand Council sits."

https://twitter.com/StanleyCohenLaw/status/1014650745298153472

6079_Smith_W

I get the point, but I can't help but wonder why the pressure is all being focused on the team which is being put in this difficult position on a number of fronts, not the far more powerful organizations which put them there.

It might be a good idea to lobby governments to recognize their passports, and the Lacrosse association which chose Israel, and is threatening to sanction the team if they do not play. I am sure the team is aware of discrimination and doesn't need a reminder of the parallels with Palestine.

The situation is a bit different, but it does remind me a bit of the South African ambassador's visit to Peguis FN and Chief Stephenson's aid request. It is one thing for Cohen, who does work for both groups, but if we are going to ask the Haudenosaunee to put themselves on the line for this principle there should be some reciprocity there. It is not just a test of their values.

http://ammsa.com/publications/windspeaker/south-african-ambassador-visit...

If we don't back them up in their struggles, and only notice them when it comes to our causes, we can't be that surprised if they make decisions based on what is most important for them.

And in case anyone is wondering about the Canadian team:

https://globalnews.ca/news/4134869/canada-world-lacrosse-championship-di...

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
If we don't back them up in their struggles, and only notice them when it comes to our causes, we can't be that surprised if they make decisions based on what is most important for them.

OK.

But what makes this "our" cause, not theirs?

What makes their causes not "ours"?

NDPP

CJPME Echoes Call To Boycott Lacrosse Championships in Israel

http://www.cjpme.org/pr_2018_07_05

"Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East (CJPME) echoes the call of human rights defenders urging the Iroquois Nationals team to boycott the upcoming World Lacrosse Championships held in Israel from July 12th to 21st. 

In addition, CJPME calls on the Canadian national team to boycott the championship in Israel - a state who's humanity abuses are repeatedly condemning by the UN, as well as international human rights organizations like Amnesty International..."

www.worldlacrosse2018.com/canada/

info@worldlacrosse2018.com

NDPP

Israel Plans To Film Iroquois Nationals Players Touring East Jerusalem For Use in its Propaganda

https://twitter.com/intifada/status/1016491068894928896

"Israeli official says visiting players will be used as 'ambassadors for Israel'."

NDPP

Iroquois Nationals Delayed By Passport Issues in Canada Enroute to World Lacrosse Championship Games in Israel

https://twitter.com/IndianCountry/status/1016744487668912128

"Iroquois Nationals Executive Director Ansley Jemison said, 'The visas are in the works due to negotiations between Canada and Israel. We travel on Haudenosaunee passports to many countries and believe it will be solved quickly..."

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Israeli official says visiting players will be used as 'ambassadors for Israel'.

This is how fake news happens.

The "official", is an official of Israel’s lacrosse federation, and he's not even singling out the Iroquois Nationals.  LOL!

Quote:
David Lasday, the head of Israel’s lacrosse federation, has acknowledged the propaganda value of hosting the tournament, calling the 10-day competition an opportunity for “amazing exposure both domestically and internationally for Israel and lacrosse.”

...

Lasday added that “each visit will be filmed and broadcast during the games” and that “the championship will create an unprecedented amount of influencers to serve as ambassadors for Israel.

If it helps, the link is from electronicintifada.  Hope they're not too deep in the pocket of the Zionist conspiracy.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Israeli official says visiting players will be used as 'ambassadors for Israel'.

This is how fake news happens.

The "official", is an official of Israel’s lacrosse federation, and he's not even singling out the Iroquois Nationals.  LOL!

Your comment would be far less inane if the sentence actually contained the word government such as "Israeli government official". So you add a word that potentially changes the meaning of the sentence and you then use that to disparage a site. Your trolling skills are slipping.

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Your comment would be far less inane if the sentence actually contained the word government such as "Israeli government official".

The original post would have been far more honest if it had actually contained the word "lacrosse" such as "Israeli LACROSSE official".

Which is better?  More information or less?

NDPP

Iroquois Nationals Face Travel Delays To World Lacrosse Championships Over Passport Issues

https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/iroquois-nationals-face-travel-delays...

"Kenneth Deer, secretary for the Mohawk Nation at Kahnewake and a member of the Haudenosaunee External Relations Committee said travelling on their own passports usually has gone well for the team, but at the last minute the Israeli government asked for a letter from Canada assuring that the team would be allowed to leave Canada before issuing visas. He said it as a 'highly unusual' condition.

'Nobody needs permission of Canada to leave the country. The Haudenosaunee do not need the permission of Canada to go to Israel,' said Deer. 'They were not allowed to board the plane in Toronto last night because Canada didn't write a letter..."

How embarrassing. So after all that, it will be up to Canada and Israel to decide if and when the Iroquois Nationals are to be allowed to go to Israel to break the BDS boycott. 

"What's Wrong With This Picture?"

https://twitter.com/sjabulhawa/status/1016720144448487424

WWWTT

Ok I’m going to try to piece together a comment here. I can’t really put my finger on it (and I’m short on time to figure it out) but this issue of the Iroquois people’s banning or the possibility of is really important. 

At this time I’m going to say that the Indigenous people’s of The America’s should ban Israel in any way shape or form. This should at least in a small way reaffirm that the Iroquois people’s are in control of their own fate.  Not any Europeans or descendants. 

I find all the posts from all the posters in this thread very good in contributions!

WWWTT

but at the last minute the Israeli government asked for a letter from Canada assuring that the team would be allowed to leave Canada 

This is absolutely terrible! Humiliating! The Israelis don’t recognize the Iroquois nation!

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

WWWTT wrote:

but at the last minute the Israeli government asked for a letter from Canada assuring that the team would be allowed to leave Canada 

This is absolutely terrible! Humiliating! The Israelis don’t recognize the Iroquois nation!

Wouldn't that be a lot like them recognizing Palestine?

NDPP

Iroquois Nationals Going To Israel Despite Calls To Boycott World Lacrosse Championships

http://aptnnews.ca/2018/07/11/iroquois-nationals-going-to-israel-despite...

"After a two-day travel delay due to diplomatic discussions between Canada and Israel the Iroquois Nationals lacrosse team is en route to Israel to compete in the 2018 World Lacrosse Championships. Paula Hemlock, a Haudenosaunee grandmother, told APTN she is disappointed in Confederacy leaders who are supporting the team's travel to Israel. 'The Iroquois Nationals represent all Haudenosaunee but they do not represent Haudenosaunee principles by participating in the tournament' she said..."

NDPP

"Shame, shame, shame. Cuts to the bone, this betrayal of the Indigenous people of Palestine. Lining up to be feted by the settlers stealing native land so the settlers can claim how righteous they are? The Confederacy will have trouble recovering from this one."

https://twitter.com/unpetrifieddop/status/1017182206945579008

NDPP

'We Made It'

https://twitter.com/iroqnats2018/status/1017354274987266050

 

'A Victory For Israel'

https://twitter.com/AliAbunimah/status/1017392397393846273

"Israeli propagandists already exploiting arrival of Iroquois Nationals as a 'Victory for Israel.' No matter their intentions Iroquois Nationals are being exploited by an apartheid regime that murders Palestine's indigenous people."

6079_Smith_W

The Canadian National Team is going, it turns out. They are also the returning champions. I suppose there should be some protest letters sent to them too; or maybe lobbying our own team doesn't play quite as well without the irony factor  of pointing to an oppressed First Nation allegedly betraying principles.

http://worldlacrosse2018.com/canada/

NDPP

NDPP wrote:

CJPME Echoes Call To Boycott Lacrosse Championships in Israel

http://www.cjpme.org/pr_2018_07_05

"Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East (CJPME) echoes the call of human rights defenders urging the Iroquois Nationals team to boycott the upcoming World Lacrosse Championships held in Israel from July 12th to 21st. 

In addition, CJPME calls on the Canadian national team to boycott the championships in Israel - a state who's humanity abuses are repeatedly condemning by the UN, as well as international human rights organizations like Amnesty International..."

www.worldlacrosse2018.com/canada/

info@worldlacrosse2018.com

Quote:

There's more than enough shame to go around. ALL of the teams participating are breaking the BDS boycott and should be denounced for doing so. How many Palestinians have to be murdered by the Zionists before the world does something about it?

6079_Smith_W

Yup. Considering our own team is also going, and is at the top of this sport, they have at least as much responsibility here.

Funny though, even the National Post, which usually goes on about BDS being anti-semitic, considers it more important to hold Haudenosaunee up for humiliation, and ignore our own team doing exactly the same thing. Speaking of irony.

https://nationalpost.com/sports/iroquois-nationals-wont-boycott-lacrosse...

It is also interesting that this tournament was supposed to have been played in Manchester, but that city pulled out.  That is how Israel got these games.

 

WWWTT

6079_Smith_W wrote:

The Canadian National Team is going, it turns out. They are also the returning champions. I suppose there should be some protest letters sent to them too; or maybe lobbying our own team doesn't play quite as well without the irony factor  of pointing to an oppressed First Nation allegedly betraying principles.

http://worldlacrosse2018.com/canada/

I understand your comment. And it should be made. But there's a big BUT.

Canada is a colonial oppresive country that raped killed starved humiliated tortured etc etc. You're suggesting that people who want to organize against an evil regime should appeal to another evil regime that both support oppression of Indiginous peoples.

 

6079_Smith_W

No. I'm saying if lots of nations are sending teams to that tournament, including our own, why is the focus being put on another nation's team rather than pushing for Canada's team to not go?

It actually isn't our business to tell the Confederacy's team what to do.

And further, why is a right-wing newspaper which spends most of its time criticizing the BDS doing the same thing? Because they think they will get more mileage out of making a First Nations team look bad, even though they are being hypocrites themselves by doing so.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
You're suggesting that people who want to organize against an evil regime should appeal to another evil regime that both support oppression of Indiginous peoples.

Are you claiming that the Canadian Lacrosse Association is "another evil regime that [both] support oppression of Indiginous peoples."??

Don't be shy.  If you're throwing down, throw down like a man.  Rabble's lawyers can deal with any pushback.

NDPP

World Lacrosse Championship 2018 Opens in Israel... (and vid)

https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1017516249872510977

MegB

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Don't be shy.  If you're throwing down, throw down like a man.  Rabble's lawyers can deal with any pushback.

Um, WTF?

NDPP

Jerusalem Post: You Think Playing in the Lacrosse World Championship is Tough

https://www.jpost.com/International/EXCLUSIVE-You-think-playing-in-the-l...

According to [ex MK Dov] Lipman, Israel represents incredible meaning for the Iroquois because they identify with Indigenous people (Jews) returning to their homeland. 'Along the way, BDS tried everything to stop them coming,' said Lipman. 'The fact that they are here is a tremendous victory against BDS - we give the Iroquois tribe so much credit for fighting the pressure. 'I'm thrilled that so many people where able to come together and make this happen. We have 46 teams here who have come to see the truth - this championship showcases Israel at its best.'

The championship was the center of a BDS storm in a bid to sabotage the competition. In an open letter to the Iroquois Nationals, BDS claimed Wingate Institute in Netanya - where the competition is taking place - was 'built upon the [Palestinian] lands of Khirbat al Zabadida [which was] ethnically cleansed of its Palestinian inhabitants in 1948 as part of the attacks focused on clearing indigenous villages along the coast north of Tel Aviv.

Lipman's message to athletes, musicians and artists who come under BDS pressure is that those who came here had nothing but a positive experience. 'It's a shame that athletes and musicians give into pressure from groups that align themselves with terrorist organizations,' he said. 'I choose to celebrate those who have come and encourage everyone to be like the Iroquois - they are an incredible example...and the ties between Israel and Canada [and how this issue was solved] is a positive example for the rest of the world."

A leader of the confederacy told Lipman 'that it's an honor of a lifetime to be here with you.' The World Lacrosse Championship will continue over the next ten days."

Israel wins. Indigenous lose. Canada collaborates.

WWWTT

@ 6079 Smith W and Mr Magoo

I think both of you posters understood what I meant in my comment? 

The Indiginous peoples of the Americas have very very little voice, and even less and  smaller on an international level. This is an opportunity for them to send a message. By protesting Israel I feel it would be an opportunity to embarass Canada.

Really, I believe in a way, they missed out on this rare chance.

6079_Smith_W

No, honestly it wasn't clear to me, but thanks for clarifying.

Whatever we might think of the decision, obviously that wasn't their first priority. I don't get how it would have been an embarrassment to Canada though.

WWWTT

Here's another example I can think of that we can draw an comparison.

Jimi Hendrix and Nichele Nichols. I'm going to only imply where I'm going with this for now.

https://thehoovercardinal.org/3476/features/nicelle-nichols/

Now I can't find much on Hendrix other than a few tributes he did for King when he died. But I do remember listening to interviews where Jimi was very vocal at his shows and tell the audience his political views.

But I'm just a white guy living in Canada so really, who am I to give advise?

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Um, WTF?

I was being facetious, and I do hope no lawsuit falls on rabble.

But WWWTT claimed that "people who want to organize against an evil regime should appeal to another evil regime that both support oppression of Indiginous peoples.". 

Letters of protest should be sent to the Canadian Lacrosse Association, and I don't think they're an evil regime that supports oppression of Indigenous peoples. 

Quote:
I think both of you posters understood what I meant in my comment?

Not really.  It sounded as though you believe that the government of Canada somehow pulls the strings for the Canadian National Team.  Is that who the "evil regime" is?  Or, who?

WWWTT

No I wasn’t being literal. Just making a broadside suggestively comment 

But really Mr Magoo? For someone who’s always making comments that are on the Edge  as yourself, I think you get it. But if you didn’t, then maybe I “out Magooed Mr Magoo?” Or maybe I should have spent more time making my comment? 

Either way, i like this thread and I can still jump on the other side and say the Iroquois team are better off going to Israel and playing their sport! 

In fact, I’m starting to believe that they can do more for their people’s and causes by staying in the game!

pookie

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Um, WTF?

I was being facetious, and I do hope no lawsuit falls on rabble.

But WWWTT claimed that "people who want to organize against an evil regime should appeal to another evil regime that both support oppression of Indiginous peoples.". 

Letters of protest should be sent to the Canadian Lacrosse Association, and I don't think they're an evil regime that supports oppression of Indigenous peoples. 

Quote:
I think both of you posters understood what I meant in my comment?

Not really.  It sounded as though you believe that the government of Canada somehow pulls the strings for the Canadian National Team.  Is that who the "evil regime" is?  Or, who?

Hm.  I rather thought she was reacting to "throw down like a man."

(It didn't bother me b/c of the context.)

JKR

Why are the Iroquois being singled out when Canada and 44 other countries are also competing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_World_Lacrosse_Championship

I notice Russia, Turkey and China are also competing.

voice of the damned

JKR wrote:
Why are the Iroquois being singled out when Canada and 44 other countries are also competing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_World_Lacrosse_Championship I notice Russia, Turkey and China are also competing.

Probably the man-bites-dog aspect of it all. Iroquois are a colonized people, so it might seem a little more "WTF?" when they do something that supposedly facilitates the colonization of Palestinians.

Whether that's a good use of activist energy is another question, though, because while the optics might be pretty bad, convincing the Iroquois specifically to drop out of the games is going to have next to zero impact on anything happening in Israel or Palestine.

WWWTT

@votd

I think part of singling out the Iroquois nation was that if their lacrosse team protested this competition occurring in an openly aggressive colonial country, it would help draw attention to their people’s plight. 

NDPP

"Israel bends over backwards to recognize Iroquois passports due to propaganda value in hiding its crimes against Palestinians." [see #47]

https://twitter.com/Mivasair/status/1017437629653094400

 

"Hey @iroqnats2018, here are some of the Palestinian athletes maimed and imprisoned by the Israeli colonial regime that is exploiting you for its propaganda."

https://twitter.com/AliAbunimah/status/1017743394528026625

JKR

What about the Syrian athletes who have been maimed and tortured by the Syrian regime?

NDPP

While Israel Invites The World To Play Lacrosse on Stolen Land - Gaza Amputees Defy War Wounds and the Cruel Indifference of the International Community - With Football (and vid)

https://twitter.com/ICYMIvideo/status/1018094003261042688

6079_Smith_W

WWWTT wrote:

@votd

I think part of singling out the Iroquois nation was that if their lacrosse team protested this competition occurring in an openly aggressive colonial country, it would help draw attention to their people’s plight. 

That's precisely the reason why it is a problem to treat them differently than other teams. Why do those who are suffering oppression have more responsibility to protest than the rest of us? Because we think it will look better?

As we see from that National Post story, what it really is is another opportunity to put them down, even as they are feeling pressure from the league and regarding recognition of sovereignty.

And it seems they are also being held up for scorn because of that difference from the other side too. Why are they more deserving of it than any other team which crossed that line?

Maybe we should have lobbied the Canadian government to do the right thing and deny them that letter that got their passports recognized. That would have solved the problem and kept them out of Israel, right?

voice of the damned

WWWTT wrote:

@votd

I think part of singling out the Iroquois nation was that if their lacrosse team protested this competition occurring in an openly aggressive colonial country, it would help draw attention to their people’s plight. 

WWWTT:

re" "their people's plight"...

Do you mean it would draw attention to the plight of the Iroquois, or the plight of the Palestinians?

If it's the former, a boycott of Israel might garner some moderate uptick in awareness of the Iroquois' issues, but then, that's really for the Iroquois themselves to decide if they want to go that particular route in publicizing their cause. If they choose not to, it's really no one's business but their own.

As for drawing attention to the Palestinians' plight, it would be minimal to none. Most people around the world are barely even aware of the Iroquois, much less which international sporting events they're participating in.

That said, I would have no problem whatsoever were the Iroquois to choose a boycott. We just shouldn't exaggerate the impact it's going to have on any of the issues involved.

 

NDPP

Iroquois Lacrosse Team Defies BDS To Reach Israele 

https://www.bnaibrith.ca/iroquois_lacrosse_team_defies_bds_to_reach_israel

"B'nai Brith welcomes the participation of the Iroquois Nationals Lacrosse Team in this week's world championships in Israel,' said Michael Mostyn, Executive Officer of B'nai Brith Canada...'We hope that the tournament serves to strengthen the bonds between the indigenous Jewish People  in the Land of Israel, and the Indigenous Iroquois Confederacy across the Atlantic..."

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

I think that expecting the Iroquois Nationals to choose to sit this one out, in order to advance someone else's politics, is kind of like activists "demanding" that a municipality earmark half of their budget for affordable housing.

Of course it's not going to happen.  Nobody, for even a brief instant, honestly believes it's going to happen.

But then, when it doesn't, you can say "Oh, look, they were given the opportunity to do the right thing and they chose self-interest/greed/the status quo!!"

There's strategy in asking for unrealistic things, even when you're aware that they're unrealistic.

voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

Iroquois Lacrosse Team Defies BDS To Reach Israele 

https://www.bnaibrith.ca/iroquois_lacrosse_team_defies_bds_to_reach_israel

"B'nai Brith welcomes the participation of the Iroquois Nationals Lacrosse Team in this week's world championships in Israel,' said Michael Mostyn, Executive Officer of B'nai Brith Canada...'We hope that the tournament serves to strengthen the bonds between the indigenous Jewish People  in the Land of Israel, and the Indigenous Iroquois Confederacy across the Atlantic..."

But would Israel and its mouthpieces be playing this up as a big PR coup if the BDS movement hadn't singled out the Iroquois in the first place?

I would have no problem with a general lacrosse boycott of Israel. But, when you point the finger specifically at one group, and say "As indigenous people, you have a special obligation not to attend the games", it just gives Israel the opportunity to crow about how much indigenous people really love them, if and when the Iroquois decide to attend.

NDPP

Pity the Palestinians don't have you to advise them VOTD, since you obviously know so much better than they do how to proceed in such matters. 

The answers to your question can be found in the links. Lacrosse is the game of the Iroquois. It belongs to them. The team represents the Haudenasaunee people, some of which have indeed pronounced the trip inconsistent and in violation of their own Haudenasaunee Constitutional principles.

It was also the centerpiece of the Israeli games, which is why so many prominent uber-Zionists such as Irwin Cotler, an Israeli MK and an Israeli official associated with the Israeli settler klansmen were lusting after the team's involvement. Had the Iroquois decided to withdraw, it would have had a considerable negative effect on Irael's games. Much more so than one of the other 45 or so teams, although the Palestinian boycott applied to all. 

But since you apparently cannot possibly fathom why Indigenous Palestinians being genocided by the apartheid settler-state of Israel could possibly hope the Indigenous Iroquois might support them in their struggle, I can only suggest you try reading the Palestinian plea again. If that doesn't work then perhaps it is you, not them that is having the problem. 

"Right now Israel is destroying the village of Khan al Ahmas and Palestinians are urging Iroquois Nationals to boycott lacrosse tournament in act of Indigenous solidarity."

https://twitter.com/intifada/status/1015758099557253120

https://buff.ly/2IQdJUH

 

NDPP

Reclaiming the Indigenous Roots of Lacrosse (podcast)

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/tapestry/lacrosse-the-creator-s-game-1.4536936/...

"The title of the book is a reference to the Haudenosaunee belief that lacrosse was a gift from the Creator...Downey says these political associations eventually lead to the formation of the Iroquois Nationals, a team that competes on the international stage, representing the Haudenosaunee Confederacy."

NDPP

Thohahente Weaver

https://twitter.com/kimpweaver/status/1018827570584936448

"This is what a colonizer looks like."