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Massacre in Gaza: Israeli strikes kill more than 200

Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Israel attacks Gaza, more than 140 killed: medics

Quote:
Israel's air force fired about 30 missiles at targets in the Gaza Strip on Saturday, destroying several Hamas police compounds and killing more than 140 people, medical officials and witnesses said.

The Israeli military confirmed it had conducted strikes, saying they targeted "terrorist infrastructure" and pledging to continue and expand attacks if necessary.

Hamas vowed to avenge what it called "the Israeli slaughter."

Medical officials said 120 people had been killed in Gaza City and another 23 in Khan Younis and Rafah in the southern Gaza strip.

 


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Stargazer
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Joined: Jun 9 2004

Funny, this was not the main focus on CBC news. Nope. The main focus was on how kind Israel was being in allowing food and water to be sent to Gaza. The press only mentioned rockets being launched at Israel.

 

 


Winnifred
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Joined: Dec 21 2008

It should have been the main focus.

 

It is a terrible situation. I am not sure what is to be done,

This analysis is very interesting.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050155.html


Stargazer
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That was a horribly biased and slanted article.

 

Israel = Good Hammas = Bad

 


lagatta
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I'm listening to Radio-Canada and the coverage is very factual - not Israel-apologetic at all. What of a hell of a time of year to have to mobilise against this atrocity. I'll be in touch with the Palestine solidarity people here.

Unionist
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Stargazer wrote:

That was a horribly biased and slanted article.

 

Israel = Good Hammas = Bad

 

One of Israel's worst political crimes is to have sidelined and crushed the left and progressive forces among Palestinians which were active, even dominant, in the 60s and 70s, and directed Palestinians into the Islamic dead ends of Hamas, Jihad and the like - capturing a soldier here and there, shooting some rockets, and presiding over Israel's genocidal destruction of the Palestinian people, their dreams and aspirations. That's when Hamas and Fatah are not waging their murderous internecine battles.

Yes, the world must continue to denounce and isolate the Israeli war criminals. But sooner or later, a leadership must arise in that region to unite all inhabitants, regardless of religion or ethnicity, in common struggle to expel all foreign influence and live together in peace.

As you can probably tell by the fog on the screen, I'm not holding my breath.


Winnifred
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According to AP:

"With 200 mortars and rockets raining down on Israel since the truce expired a week ago, and 3,000 since the beginning of the year, pressure had been mounting in Israel for the military to crush militants."

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/558600

It is as though Hamas was trying to provoke a confrontation. This is terrible.

 


Slumberjack
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Winnifred wrote:
It is as though Hamas was trying to provoke a confrontation. This is terrible.

Through occupation and the subsequent land, sea and air blockade, military repression has been the main instrument through which Israel provokes its enemies, by suffocating the Palestinian people, young and old alike.  Israel maintains the status quo through violence because it purposefully avoids peace, because real peace requires significant concessions and a return of gains acquired through aggression.  Something they are incapable of doing because of internal political considerations.  The oppressed are left with no choice but to struggle against overwhelming odds.


Le T
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"Funny, this was not the main focus on CBC news. Nope. The main focus was on how kind Israel was being in allowing food and water to be sent to Gaza. The press only mentioned rockets being launched at Israel."

 

The front page article on CBC.ca/news is now the reporting on the attack by Israel. As Lagatta says of RC's coverage, it's pretty factual and middle of the road. 


Cueball
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Unionist wrote:
Stargazer wrote:

That was a horribly biased and slanted article.

 

Israel = Good Hammas = Bad

 

One of Israel's worst political crimes is to have sidelined and crushed the left and progressive forces among Palestinians which were active, even dominant, in the 60s and 70s, and directed Palestinians into the Islamic dead ends of Hamas, Jihad and the like - capturing a soldier here and there, shooting some rockets, and presiding over Israel's genocidal destruction of the Palestinian people, their dreams and aspirations. That's when Hamas and Fatah are not waging their murderous internecine battles.

Yes, the world must continue to denounce and isolate the Israeli war criminals. But sooner or later, a leadership must arise in that region to unite all inhabitants, regardless of religion or ethnicity, in common struggle to expel all foreign influence and live together in peace.

As you can probably tell by the fog on the screen, I'm not holding my breath.

That is pretty simplistic.

 One of the fundamental aspects missing from this analysis is the fact that the left allowed itself to be corrupted, and worse, it also failed partly because it too, more often than not, was not free of associations with imperial designs of the Soviet Union. The left, where it has achieved government in the Arab world has also used brutal means of oppression, in the name of leftist principles. On the brighter side of the spectrum of Arab socialists one can say that Nasser had substantive political legitimacy, but then we have Assad in Syria, and worse Hussien in Iraq.

The track record of "the left" in the Arab world is hardly very progressive, and not very inspiring. Blaming the failure of the left on western agression, and Israeli Malfeasance is a cop-out.


Hoodeet
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Cueball:  Saddam Hussein was only as "left" as Stalin.  A journalist who visited Hussein saw the complete works of Stalin in Hussein was surprised and asked the Iraqi president "You're not really a communist, are you?" to which Hussein reportedly answered "Neither was Stalin".  (Lost the source, but it was a British or a US journalist.)  I'd leave him off the list.

It's easy to blame corruption of the left parties for their own demise.  It's a little more complicated than that, of course.  Israel favoured Hamas in the beginning to divide Palestinians and weaken the PLO.  They also worked  systematically to destroy the PFLP  and other left groups, with the tacit or even active cooperation of monarchical Arab states (Jordan, Saudi Arabia...) who feared the rise of a socialist secular state in the region.  ("The enemy of my enemy is my friend" - we've seen it many times in history.)

Israel is an unholy mess, its economy tied in and beholden to  militarism and arms production (as one of the top developers and exporters of military systems).  The extremists will play the Palestinian threat as a card with which to distract the people from the real domestic issues.  

 


lagatta
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Cueball, you are blackening the Left in the Arab world with a pretty broad brush there. There is truth in all you say, but there are leftists in the Arab world who have not fallen victims to corruption, and nowadays the Soviet influence is a memory. I know progressives in the territories; suppose that historically at least they were associated with PFLP. Not perfect by any means, but not the extreme corruption - and now, collaboration, to be found in Fateh or the extreme social reaction of religious fundie Hamas. Sure, they are in solidarity with Hamas against Israeli aggression, but are none the less critical of its agenda against women and against personal freedoms. Israel DID do a lot to destroy the Left in Palestine, thinking that it would be better to deal with religious parties. This makes the combat of Palestinian progressives - and in particular of Palestinian feminists - all the more arduous. The real burial shrouds of families destroyed by Israeli shelling are far worse than the symbolic shrouds women are forced to don, but that does not excuse the symbolic shroud.

Hoodeet
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correction - above comment

"saw the complete works of Stalin in Hussein's study"  (accidentally erased - sorry)


martin dufresne
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"I'm listening to Radio-Canada and the coverage is very factual - not Israel-apologetic at all"(Lagatta)

YellWhaaaat?!!!

I just listened to the radio news on Première chaîne and it featured, as usual, Sionist mouthpiece Danielle Kriegel mouthing the official line from Jerusalem - including the announcement of more Israeli strikes!!!!!!!!! -  with analysis limited to the predictable speculation by unnamed Israeli sources about "fear of reprisals".

ETA: Last sentence of the 1 p.m. broadcast: "President Ehud Barak warned that reprisals would continue and intensify as long as it would be necessary." (my translation)

If you really believe that this perspective is factual, lagatta and Le T, I suggest you record one of her reports and transcribe it by hand, including her white-washing word choices, e.g. describing exchanges of gunfire "between soldiers and Palestinians". Kriegel is an Israeli government flunky who probably would have described the Sabra and Chatila massacre as agitation in Palestinian strongholds! The fact that Radio-Canada seems unwilling to give voice to a more objective journalist about the war on Palestine is a bloody shame and probably a direct reflection of Canadian and Israeli govt censorship.

For a more realistic perpsective, check out Al-Jazeera's treatment of this horrible renewed assault by a terrorist State, surfing on Canada's uncritical support.

Or don't you trust Arabs?


nonest factum
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Bradley Burston / The worst anti-Israel charges you'll hear in wartime By Bradley Burston, Haaretz Correspondent    
It is, abruptly and again, wartime. Across the globe, the selective pacifists of the left and the recliner Rambos of the right are spoiling for their next battle, the war in Gaza.

They will fight one another in letters to Congress, in cable news sound bites, in raucous talk-radio phone-ins, in the virtual mega-heroics of the online battlefield of the talkback.

They will fight one another in the United Nations as well, unashamedly one-sided in their concern for human life.
     

Herewith the first in a two-part guide to the 10 most gratuitous, least productive, most resolutely ingenuous claims likely to be hurled in an effort to attack Israel.

The first five are arguments of the anti-Israel left, claims which are, curiously, as tired as they are unflagging.

 

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050421.html


lagatta
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Martin, it wasn't Danielle Kriegel, who is indeed as you say; it was just a file story. You were listening to a later version of the news. Calm down; I'm not one to swallow the Israeli government lie or "distrust Arabs". Don't you follow babblers' posting histories? I took part in the PAJU vigils for many years, and was involved in Palestine solidarity decades before that. Sometimes you just seem pissed-off at everybody.

martin dufresne
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And sometimes what I hear doesn't correspond to what people say about it. The file story you heard may have seemed balanced compared to CBC coverage, but Radio-Canada Nouvelles is not and has never been to my knowledge anything less than systematically pro-Israel in that conflict. Their continuing relationship with Kriegel as their local correspondent should demonstrate as much.

wwSwimming
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Palestine Remembered -

http://www.palestineremembered.com/index.html

in order to create Israel, 400 Palestinian villages were destroyed and their occupants killed or forced to find new housing. Yet the Western media - including, unfortunately, Canada's - commemorates Israel's "60th anniversary" and talks about their "war of independence" without saying a word about the other half of the story - what the Palestinians call Al Nakba.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

http://LASIK-Flap.com ~ Health Warning about LASIK Eye Surgery


Hoodeet
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What is being set up in solidarity with the victims?

There are over 400 wounded (which our whitewashing msm always refers to as "injured" as if the wounds were accidental) in need.  

That might be more constructive, and our arguments start to seem rather petty, frankly 


lagatta
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Emergency demo in Montréal: Demonstration to commemorate Palestinian victims of Israeli massacre in Gaza ------------------------------ SUNDAY, DECEMBER 28th, 13h00 Norman Bethune Square corner: Guy & de Maisonneuve (metro Guy-Concordia) ------------------------------ In response to the latest massacre of Palestinians executed by the Israeli apartheid regime. At least 200 Palestinians have been killed in the latest Israeli assault on the Gaza Strip, while the threat for further bloodshed still hands heavily over the skies in Palestine as the current Israeli assault over Gaza continues. This is the single largest massacre in Gaza since Israel illegally occupied Gaza in 1967, many among the dead are civilians and the numbers keeps mounting. Israel's military operation "Cast Lead" has echoes of previous Israeli raids into Gaza that have been characterized by indiscriminate attacks on civilian population centers, mass detentions, violent house demolitions and other forms of collective punishment against the Palestinian people. Additionally this demonstration will address the Canadian government's total support towards Israel, best exemplified increased bilateral military, political and economic links. Israel's latest massacre in Gaza occurs with official Canadian complicity towards Israel's illegal siege and ongoing sanctions over the civilian population in Gaza. Over the past two years the Gaza Strip has been undergoing the daily violence of a wide-ranging humanitarian catastrophe triggered by severely reduced access to energy, food, and medicines. In effect, Gaza is the world's largest open air prison. At this moment, we can only reaffirm our commitment in the strongest possible terms to continue mobilizing friends and allies in other progressive social movements to respond to the call by over 170 Palestinian civil society organizations for a comprehensive campaign of boycott, sanctions and divestment (BDS). As H.E. Father Miguel D'Escoto Brockman, President of the United Nations General Assembly state in a recent speech: "More than twenty years ago we in the United Nations took the lead from civil society when we agreed that sanctions were required to provide a nonviolent means of pressuring South Africa to end its violations. Today, perhaps we in the United Nations should consider following the lead of a new generation of civil society, who are calling for a similar non-violent campaign of boycott, divestment and sanctions to pressure Israel to end its violations." Join us on the streets tomorrow as people of conscience to stand in solidarity with the Palestinian people of Gaza and an end to Israeli apartheid. Organized by: Solidarity for Palestinian Human Rights (SPHR) and Tadamon! Montreal I got it from someone in Palestinians and Jews United (Paju) so assume they are attending as well.

josh
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Operation Disproportionate Response XXXIII

Cueball
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Hoodeet wrote:

Cueball: Saddam Hussein was only as "left" as Stalin. A journalist who visited Hussein saw the complete works of Stalin in Hussein was surprised and asked the Iraqi president "You're not really a communist, are you?" to which Hussein reportedly answered "Neither was Stalin". (Lost the source, but it was a British or a US journalist.) I'd leave him off the list.

It's easy to blame corruption of the left parties for their own demise. It's a little more complicated than that, of course. Israel favoured Hamas in the beginning to divide Palestinians and weaken the PLO. They also worked systematically to destroy the PFLP and other left groups, with the tacit or even active cooperation of monarchical Arab states (Jordan, Saudi Arabia...) who feared the rise of a socialist secular state in the region. ("The enemy of my enemy is my friend" - we've seen it many times in history.)

Israel is an unholy mess, its economy tied in and beholden to militarism and arms production (as one of the top developers and exporters of military systems). The extremists will play the Palestinian threat as a card with which to distract the people from the real domestic issues.

 

 

Yadda yadda. My point is that it is simplistic to simply blame Israel and the west for the demise of the left in the Arab world, or among Palestinians. Certainly, neither have been supportive of it but the left has much to answer for, and failure has been its lasting legacy. Preaching about some possible "never never land" alternate reality, where if it were not for the bad guys, everything would be peachy keen in the Middle East is intellectually dishonest. As is attempting to disassociate Stalin, and Stalinism, from the left, simply because such associations are embarrassing. The fact is that the main line of left wing political organizations among Arabs were for many generations associated with Stalin and his heirs, as was the case throughout the world, both out of conviction, and for the sake of political expedience. These are facts. Trying to reshuffle the historical deck because its a convenient way of not taking a position supportive of the non-leftist Arab resistance to the Israeli occupation (of which Hamas is most definitely a legitimate representative), and not engaging in a fulsome critique of the "left" legacy in the Arab world is only to make ones position irrelevant to the actual process as it unfolds. Sure, I would prefer that it was the PFLP that was calling the shots in the Gaza Strip. But that is not the way it is, and so, in the balance, and in context, one necessarily has to take a firm position supporting the legitimate resistance to the Israeli occupation, and clearly there is no other effective organization defending Palestinian interests, as all others, even the late Yasser Arafat's Fatah, are hopelessly corrupt, if not in fact direct tools of the occupation. This corruption of the left, in particular, the corruption of Fatah, (nominally a social democratic left organization, and a member of the Socialist International) is precisely the cause of the advances made by other organizations, such as Hamas and Hexboallah, which operate under the banner of an ideology of indigenous origins, and not tainted by past failure and betrayal, often enabled by the paternalistic attitudes of all-knowing western "leftist". Perhaps its time we westerners stopped lecturing Arabs about what kind of resistance is best for them, and let them determine the form of their own destiny.

 


Unionist
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Cueball wrote:

Perhaps its time we westerners stopped lecturing Arabs about what kind of resistance is best for them, and let them determine the form of their own destiny.

 

You think that's what's held them back for the past 60 years - westerners lecturing the Arabs? North Americans coopting their resistance organizations?

And you don't like my theory - that the problem is Israel, supported by the most powerful imperialisms in the world - and their puppets like the Saudis and others?

Ok, you pursue your theory, and I'll pursue mine.

The best thing we can do to help is to pressure our own country to sever all ties, and cease all support, for Israel and its prime backers. That includes condemning Harper for cutting off aid to the Palestinian Authority when Hamas was elected as the government. It does not include creating illusions that the wingnuts of Hamas will ever save their people. They won't.


peskyfly1
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     Collective punishment is a war crime.  The question is, how does the civilized world (or whats left of it) enforce international law?  How can we make a difference when our government endorses American imperialism?  Is it so hard just to stop killing people?

M. Spector
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There will be a demonstration outside the Israeli Consulate in Toronto.

Where: 180 Bloor Street West

When: 2:00 p.m. on Sunday 28th December 2008.

Supported so far by:
Canadian Arab Federation

Palestine House

Women in Solidarity with Palestine (WSP)

Not In Our Name (NION): Jewish Voices Opposing Zionism

Muslim Association of Hamilton

International Jewish anti-Zionist Network - Toronto

Coalition Against Israeli Apartheid

 

 


Cueball
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Unionist wrote:

Cueball wrote:

Perhaps its time we westerners stopped lecturing Arabs about what kind of resistance is best for them, and let them determine the form of their own destiny.

 

You think that's what's held them back for the past 60 years - westerners lecturing the Arabs? North Americans coopting their resistance organizations?

North Americans? Not precisely that. Sorry to say it but I include Soviet Socialism as a European ("Western") ideological formula, derived from the same body of ideas, complete with the overweaning, "we know better" attitude born in the so-called "enlightenment", that was enforced by the raw power of the Soviet state, and cynically manipulated toward supporting the "percieved" interests of the Soviet state, regardless of the consequences to those directly involved.

Of course this is a two way street, and just saying that Nasser, for example, was a merely a puppet of the Soviet State would be absurd, but, it is a fact that the "left-socialist" cause has largely been discredited as an effective mode of achieving the national aims of most Arab peoples, and also (often) seen as direct agent of their opression, along with those icons of the era who are associated with it, or used those associations to further their political goals.

Really, of those only the family of Assad remains, and the speed with which these political movements withered and died, after the collapse of the Soviet Union is a testement to how chimeric was their hold on popular opinion.


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005
And just which of the Palestinian liberation organizations would you qualify as being Soviet proxies in that time?

Cueball
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Well, aside from the fact that I just wrote a whole paragraph outlining that I thought saying that the Pan-Arabist socialist movement was "merely a puppet (proxy) of the Soviet State would be absurd", and that your question is based on a patented distortions of what I said, I will point out, that if you bothered to read about the history of the PLO, you would know that the PLO begins life as a "proxy" (to use your word) force of the major players in the Arab League, in particular Egypt and Syria, and was generally concieved of not as "liberation movement" for Palestinians per se, but as a military force comprised of displaced Palestinians that would be organizationally subservient to the interests of the major players in the Arab League and in particular the Pan-Arabist vision of Nasser.

In fact, asserting "independence" from the Arab league, and the various political ambitions of its members, and becoming truly a "Palestinian" organization that put Palestinian interests above those of its sponsors was an important political power struggle within the PLO that was an major political concern for Yasser Arafat, and primary to his rise and control over the organization. Black September comes to mind.

But that is just history, so who cares?


Frustrated Mess
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Maybe this is the Zionists final solution for the Gaza Ghetto.




Unionist
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Cueball, you're angry with someone or something. Why not forget about this ideological debate, which is out of place in this thread, and let people here be united in the face of this barbaric attack. I will continue to wish well to the Palestinian people and hope, from afar, that they develop their own leadership (currently non-existent) to lead them to the realization of their aspirations. Meanwhile, I will support all forces that work for unity of all peoples in the region against the enemy (Israel and its backers), and I will work for that same cause here in Canada.

M. Spector
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Joined: Feb 19 2005

Reuters is reporting at least 229 people killed and over 700 injured.

 

 


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