Jeremy Corbyn

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Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
It seems that people support Corbyn's program, not his personality.

So everyone who joined up after he was under attack supported him all along, but just didn't have time to sign up?

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..it's not a poll it's a struggle. it's the membership trying to get control of the party and stear it in a healthier direction.

 

nicky

The "healthier direction" into which Corbyn is leading the party is into a polling black hole.

4 more catastrophic polls:

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/09/04/round-up-...

mark_alfred

Apparently Smith sometimes makes casual sexist comments. 

http://www.newstatesman.com/2016/07/four-times-owen-smith-has-made-sexis...

A recent poll seems to indicate that Corbyn is going to win. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-yougov-poll-labour-lea...

Jon Ashworth, a Labour MP who as far as I know is one of the few who remained loyal to Corbyn, and who gave a speech at the NDP convention, wrote an article about the last election here in Canada, contrasting it with the recent election that happened in the UK.  Interesting read (note the pdf file).  http://www.policy-network.net/publications/6123/Sunny-Ways-Learning-From...

contrarianna

nicky wrote:

"Six in ten Scottish voters think that Jeremy Corbyn is doing a bad job (the majority of whom think he is doing very badly), whilst just 18% think he is doing well, giving him an abysmal net score of -42."

 

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/09/01/davidson-now-more-popular-sturgeon-...

 

(No doubt a Blairite poll, wouldnt you say Josh?)

No, not Blairite, otherwise your article wouldn't conclude:

Quote:
Despite Corbyn’s poor ratings, Owen Smith doesn’t seem to have captured the imagination of Scottish Labour voters either. Asked who they would vote for in the Labour leadership election if they could, the two candidates are tied neck and neck at 35%.

But do carry on. Those whose "arguments" consist almost entirely of the moral authority of polls, betting shops and haruspicy have little else.

contrarianna

sherpa-finn wrote:

contrarianna wrote: Michael Chessum. in the usually anti-left "New Statesman"

.... an unfair, perhaps ill-informed,  poke at The New Statesman, which has a long and illustrious history as a progressive journal of politics and culture since it was founded by Sydney and Beatrice Webb over a hundred years ago. While more centre-left than radical left, it has always provided a platform for more radical voices, such as Chessum's....

Just saw this.

That you laughably call Michael Chessum a "radical" says more about you than him.

Relative to most of the establishment media the New Stateman might be called "centre-left" (though "New Labour" which Thatcher called her "greatest achievement" would be called be "centre left" by *some* here).

Your patronizing capsule history of the "illustrious" New Stateman is rather silly.

It was indeed founded by Fabian upper-crust socialists, the Webbs.

Absolutely central to their Utopian vision was eliminating the poverty by eliminating the poor through eugenics--since they were genetically inferior. The early New Statesman reflected this view.

Not so long ago:

Quote:
Following Steve Platt's resignation, Robinson appointed as editor Ian Hargreaves...Hargreaves in turn fired most of the left-wingers on the staff and turned the Statesman into a strong supporter of Tony Blair as Labour leader.

In its current incarnation, to its credit, the NS does allow more dissenting voices than most establishment media though, in main, it has been anti-Corbyn and follows the UK gov propaganda line in foreign policy.

Jason Cowley, current NS editor:

Quote:
The Brexit vote was a further warning to Labour of just how disillusioned its traditional supporters are. And it could be that the politician best placed to appeal to them is Mrs May. For her steely resolve, cool mind, professed concern for social justice, and her understanding that a strong state is the precondition of order and security seem more in keeping with the spirit of this anxious age than the Labour leader’s peacenik utopianism.
 

nicky
epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Corbyn’s Manifesto on Digital Democracy

quote:

Universal Service Network
We will deliver high speed broadband and mobile connectivity for every household, company and organisation in Britain from the inner city neighbourhoods to the remotest rural community.

Open Knowledge Library
We will create a free-to-use online hub of learning resources for the National Education Service. The Open Knowledge Library will be the digital repository of lessons, lectures, curricula and student work from Britain’s nurseries, schools, colleges and universities.

Community Media Freedom
We will ensure that a diversity of views and opinions are heard. The BBC Charter will be updated with a commitment to nurture programming from local and identity communities. The Office of Communications will protect network neutrality. Funding bodies will be encouraged to sponsor new media arts projects. We will reform the laws on intellectual property so that producers and consumers benefit.

Platform Cooperatives
We will foster the cooperative ownership of digital platforms for distributing labour and selling services. The National Investment Bank and regional banks will help to finance social enterprises whose websites and apps are designed to minimise the costs of connecting producers with consumers in the transport, accommodation, cultural, catering and other important sectors of the British economy.

Digital Citizen Passport
We will develop a voluntary scheme that provides British citizens with a secure and portable identity for their on-line activities. The Digital Citizen Passport will be used when interacting with public services like health, welfare, education and housing. The individual holders of a Digital Citizen Passport will be able to control who has access to their personal data and for what purposes.

Programming For Everyone
We will require that all publicly funded software and hardware is released under an Open Source licence. Public bodies will financially reward staff technicians who significantly contribute to Open Source projects.

A People's Charter of Digital Liberty Rights
We will launch a public consultation with people and parties across the political spectrum to draw up a digital bill of rights. This constitutional settlement will reaffirm the continued importance of long-held and hard-won individual and collective freedoms within the new information society.

Massive Multi-Person On-line Deliberation
We will utilise information technologies to make popular participation in the democratic process easy and inclusive. We will aim to organise both online and offline meetings for individuals and communities to deliberate about pressing political issues and participate in devising new legislation. We will create a 21st century networked democracy where everybody can be a political decision-maker. •

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/10/britains-political-tribe... More uncomfortable numbers for Corbyn.

By that logic, Labour should just disband.  There's nothing it could do as a "centrist" party that would be WORTH doing.

There's no meaningful difference between the right and the center anymore.

Sean in Ottawa

Ken Burch wrote:

nicky wrote:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/10/britains-political-tribe... More uncomfortable numbers for Corbyn.

By that logic, Labour should just disband.  There's nothing it could do as a "centrist" party that would be WORTH doing.

There's no meaningful difference between the right and the center anymore.

Perhaps the problem is that the Labour Party has not had leaders in a long time. They were followers.

A leader might be measured in what they try to accomplish in order to seek and retain power but they would be educating the public about the direction and philosophy to gradually do more.

Seems over the years the Labour party has not only managed to deliver policies of a centre-right party, it has failed to lead -- educate the population -- about anything.

One might understand the need to act more slowly but if you cannot over time make your case for what you really want to do then you are not providing any progress at all.

sherpa-finn

nicky wrote:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/10/britains-political-tribe... More uncomfortable numbers for Corbyn.

Its an interesting type of survey, but the accompanying narrative does not seem to match the data.  Basically, respondents are first asked to locate themselves on a five point scale:  Left Wing / Centre-left / Centre / Centre Right / Right Wing.  And they are then asked to locate leading politicins in that same scale.  So its all about political perceptions.  And the point about the leaders is not so surprising: May is generally perceived to be closer to the centre than Corbyn, and thus a "better fit" with the political leanings of the general popoulation.  

But its the analysis of the larger social trends that seems weird. The analyst simply pools the Centre with the Centre Right and Right Wing to get 75% of the population, compares that to the balance of 25% of Centre Left and Left Wing, - and concludes "Three times as many voters now regard themselves as on the centre ground or to the right of British politics as those who see themselves as on the left." 

True enough, but the reverse is also equally true, - if you pool the Centre with the Centre left and Left Wing. You then get 73% of the population, compared to the 27% of Centre Right and Right Wing.

All this really shows, IMHO, is that given a political scale, almost half of all UK citizens self-identify as Centre (not Left or Right), - and as a result that presumably is where elections are generally won or lost. Which gets us back to the unhappy tension between the socialist aspirations of our intreprid litte band of 15%ers, - and how the rest of the electorate actually looks at things. 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

It's now clear that there is no such thing as policies that are good for working people and the poor that could fit in the category of "centrism".  To be centrist is to support the existing social and economic order...and that order is both unsustainable and incapable of being made progressive or humane.  

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

It's now clear that there is no such thing as policies that are good for working people and the poor that could fit in the category of "centrism".  To be centrist is to support the existing social and economic order...and that order is both unsustainable and incapable of being made progressive or humane.  

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

The MOMENTUM Behind Jeremy Corbyn

To the surprise and dismay of many Labour MP's in the UK, Corbyn was elected with the backing by Momentum, and is expected to win again next week in an another leadership election says, Professor Leo Panitch

Doug Woodard

Voters may back Corbyn's policies but they won't accept a freakshow:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/22/voters-back-corbyn...

 

nicky

There is a strong consensus that Corbyn will prevail on Saturday.
It is very sad to see a great historic party self-immolate with an incompetent utterly unelectable leader installed by an unrepresentative fringe. Hopefully there will be some pieces of the party left to stitch together after the next election by the saner heads in Labour.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Corbyn and the Roots of Labour's Discontent

Jeremy Corbyn's rise is not due to the appearance of Momentum or the arrival of newcomers - it comes from the frustration of Labour's base with the majority of the party MPs, says UK economist John Weeks

quote:

WEEKS: The opponents of Jeremy Corbyn attack Momentum as a organization formed recently entrance into the Labor Party. It’s called entryism and that is not people that are committed to the Labor Party and that they’re just a bunch of a young radical [inaud.] and god knows what who came into the party to try to shift it to the left and don’t really have any interests in the Labor Party as such. And don’t really have any interests in winning the election. They want to put forward a left agenda.

[inaud.] bears little resemblance to that. It’s not all rosy but Momentum in my experience, the experience of friends of mine who’ve gone long to it, been in the Labor Party for quite a long time, is that you have many older people in Momentum. You have people in Momentum for the most part, people who have been around the Labor Party for a long time and have wanted a left wing leader and now they have one and now they’re supporting him. So I think that the allegations that they’re just a bunch of recent entry full of [inaud.] is not valid. That there may be some [inaud.] there. No doubt that they are.

The head of Momentum are— well more so let’s say the person that organizes up is a man named John Lansman who I have met who had worked for the only MP that I knew well, worked for Michael Meacher. Left wing progressive very good MP who died about a year ago and John, just about the time that Jeremy Corbyn was elected and John Lansman began to organize this group Momentum. In other words, the people organizing it have been in the Labor Party for a long time.

I would say that on the downside of Momentum is it does tend to be focused on a person. I think it should be focused on social democratic policies but it’s very much focused on elect Jeremy.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

nicky wrote:
There is a strong consensus that Corbyn will prevail on Saturday. It is very sad to see a great historic party self-immolate with an incompetent utterly unelectable leader installed by an unrepresentative fringe. Hopefully there will be some pieces of the party left to stitch together after the next election by the saner heads in Labour.

It would seem that you only believe in democracy when it gives the result you want. How inspiring.

nicky

No Michael, democracy in the UK will deliver a result I don't want or like - the destruction of the once great Labour Party, led over the cliff by the myopic and incompetent Jeremy Corbyn.

nicky
Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

nicky wrote:
">http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/this-could-be-the-end-of-the-labour-p...

This article strikes me as rather manic. It could have been written by Chicken Little. If I could speak to Nick Cohen right now, I would assure him, as P. E. Trudeau told us, that "the universe is unfolding as it should". Neither he, nor our own nicky needs to suffer over what might have been, in the future of their imaginations.

wage zombie

nicky wrote:
No Michael, democracy in the UK will deliver a result I don't want or like - the destruction of the once great Labour Party, led over the cliff by the myopic and incompetent Jeremy Corbyn.

If Corbyn is so incompetent, what does that say about the PLP?

josh

nicky wrote:
No Michael, democracy in the UK will deliver a result I don't want or like - the destruction of the once great Labour Party, led over the cliff by the myopic and incompetent Jeremy Corbyn.

The once great Labour Party was destroyed by the Blairites' New Labour. Its ashes are spread out over the sands of Iraq.

josh

Michael Moriarity wrote:

nicky wrote:
">http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/this-could-be-the-end-of-the-labour-p...

This article strikes me as rather manic. It could have been written by Chicken Little. If I could speak to Nick Cohen right now, I would assure him, as P. E. Trudeau told us, that "the universe is unfolding as it should". Neither he, nor our own nicky needs to suffer over what might have been, in the future of their imaginations.


The article is one big strawman.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:
No Michael, democracy in the UK will deliver a result I don't want or like - the destruction of the once great Labour Party, led over the cliff by the myopic and incompetent Jeremy Corbyn.

If Corbyn stays on as leader, it's because his opponents simply didn't make a case that Owen Smith would be an improvement.  The fact that Smith drew virtually NO crowds as he campaign proves he has no popular support.  No one will vote for you in a general election if no one will turn out to hear you speak as a leadership candidate.

Calling Corbyn a bad leader was never going to get the majority of the party to reject him.  There needed to be a reason to believe Owen Smith would be a better leader.  Why is it so hard for you to acceot the fact that that reason simply never appeared.

A lobbyist for Pfizer can't be a social democrat-or a democrat of any sort.  And If Smith had won by a smaller number of votes than the number of people who were barred from voting(all for totally spurious reasons...no one should ever be deprived of a vote for what they posted on Facebook, for God's sakes) his "victory" would have been illegitimate and of no use to anyone.  It would have been impossible for Smith ever to unify the party around his leadership.

Will you agree that, if Corbyn is re-elected, the PLP will have an obligation to stop undermining him and stop trying to remove him as leader?  That they should give up on demanding his resignation?

MegB

Continued here.

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