Khadr's khangaroo khourt trial - khanadians khritical
November 14, 2008 - 12:26pm
Khadr was instead charged under the Military Commissions Act with murder and attempted murder “in violation of the laws of war.” While it is not a war crime to kill an enemy combatant on the battlefield, the prosecution insists that it becomes a war crime – a serious violation of the laws of armed conflict – if committed by an unlawful enemy combatant. Defense counsel Rebecca Snyder argued that a battlefield killing only becomes a war crime when a combatant – privileged or otherwise – targets a person with protected status, or uses prohibited methods of killing. Protected persons include civilians, all persons in custody, incapacitated military personnel, or military medical or religious personnel. Prohibited methods include the use of human shields, poison gas, or intentional deception designed to induce the enemy into believing that one is a protected person (which is known as perfidy). Therefore, unless the prosecution can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Sgt. Speer was a protected person when killed (which the prosecution does not contend), or that Khadr used prohibited methods of killing (which has also not been argued), his alleged actions could not constitute murder “in violation of the laws of war” even if he were an unlawful enemy combatant at the time.
The prosecution seems to claim that international law does not matter. It claims that Congress can create a new war crime under US law – and has in the Military Commissions Act – even if it has never been considered a war crime under international law in this century or the last.
The prosecution seems to claim that international law does not matter. It claims that Congress can create a new war crime under US law – and has in the Military Commissions Act – even if it has never been considered a war crime under international law in this century or the last.
Link to previous thread-chunk
--------------------------------------------------------------More from Audrey Macklin, July 12, 2008:
Indeed, her trial and her sentence (four years in psychiatric custody, four-and-a-half years of conditional supervision, 18 months credit for time served in pre-trial custody) were consistent with the special rules applicable to young offenders, including young offenders accused of a most serious crime: first-degree murder of one's mother, father, and brother. We all understand rights are not only for the people we like or consider good -- they are also for people whom we believe are sick or bad.
The statement that Canada has sought and obtained assurances of humane treatment assumes the audience will not notice the difference between getting assurances and verifying the truth of those assurances. The reports of torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo are by now well known.In Khadr's case, specific mistreatment includes denial of timely medical treatment and pain relief for bullet wounds in the chest, long periods of solitary confinement under bright lights and cold temperatures, and sleep deprivation. At one point, prison guards terrorized Khadr to the point where he urinated himself. They then dipped him in disinfectant and used him as a human mop to wipe up his own urine. He would have been 17 at the time.
Now we know, thanks to disclosure ordered by the Federal Court, that Canadian officials were aware of the abuse while it was happening.The claim that it is premature and speculative to request Khadr's repatriation genuinely insults the intelligence of Canadians. Every other western nation and U.S. ally sought and obtained the release of its citizens (and even non-citizen permanent residents) without waiting for a trial.
During his campaign, Obama described Guantanamo as a "sad chapter in American history" and has said generally that the U.S. legal system is equipped to handle the detainees. But he has offered few details on what he planned to do once the facility is closed.
Under plans being put together in Obama's camp, some detainees would be released and many others would be prosecuted in U.S. criminal courts.
A third group of detainees — the ones whose cases are most entangled in highly classified information — might have to go before a new court designed especially to handle sensitive national security cases, according to advisers and Democrats involved in the talks. Advisers participating directly in the planning spoke on condition of anonymity because the plans aren't final. - AP
So Obomba wants to create a new "terrorism court" to replace the military commissions. The only difference between his plan and what Bush wants to do is that the kangaroo kourt trials will be held on US soil.
This is what passes for a big improvement in US political circles - or as the article goes on to call it, a "sharp deviation" from Bush's script.
Don't count on Khadr's being released before his January 26 trial date.
Guantanamo: Military Oaths Confront the Constitution in the Omar Khadr Case
...more on Khadr and the phony global war on terror here
Thanks for that link, Fidel.
Rudmin concludes with this very principled and sensible demand:
He does not call for Khadr to be "brought to justice" in Canada, or in a US civilian court, or anywhere else, because the whole idea of prosecuting him for murder is illegal under international law.
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We do know that one Liberal MP wanted him tried on charges of terrorism in 2003. Other than that I'm not sure that anyone wants Khadr arraigned on charges of murder in Canada today. The Liberals are trying to bury their their handling of the Khadr affair, and the blue people with a brand new exaggerated minority are just ignoring it altogether and breezing through 42 non-confidence votes in parliament since 2006. I don't know what else to say other than Khadr's life is still in uncle Sam's hands where it ought not to have been since Ottawa abandoned him to his own devices at Guantanamo.
How do we decide who is required to take care of him when he gets to Canada? Neither dumping him on the street, nor pitching him into the embrace of his family seems appropriate.
Does he have to sue the government? Does Family court have jurisdiction now? Juvenile court?
If we are real lucky, he eventually sues and includes Chretien, Martin, and Harper as being personally responsible for him. Suing all 3 into bankruptcy would be just wonderful (if unlikely in the extreme).
If we are real lucky, he eventually sues and includes Chretien, Martin, and Harper as being personally responsible for him. Suing all 3 into bankruptcy would be just wonderful (if unlikely in the extreme).
It's a bad situation for any of those three. The Harpers are mesmerized by the American inquisition. There were promises from both Obama and McCain to release Khadr if and when our minority government makes an official request, and it looks like that will be a long time coming. I'm thinking Khadr could be stuck in US military custody for years to come and especially if Obama steps up the phony war on terror, which he has vowed to do.
How do we decide who is required to take care of him when he gets to Canada? Neither dumping him on the street, nor pitching him into the embrace of his family seems appropriate.
Khadr is now legally an adult. "We" don't have to decide how he's going to live his life any more than we have to decide how you are going to live yours.
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"We" don't have to decide how he's going to live his life any more than we have to decide how you are going to live yours.
So after abandoning a 15 year-old child to be tortured in an American gulag system for six years, the feds will likely abandon him all over again. That sounds typical of Ottawa. Will Khadr be in his right mind after having been tortured by mind control specialists for six years? What kind of support will this kid need after losing six crucial developmental years of his life to a living hell like Gitmo? I hope his family get some real killers for lawyers and nail Canadian taxpayers good for the stoogeocracy violating international law. Canadians need to know at least some of Ottawa's record for vicious toadying to Crazy George II and chickenhawks. I hope its plastered all over the news with liberal mention of the guilty party.
So after abandoning a 15 year-old child to be tortured in an American gulag system for six years, the feds will likely abandon him all over again.
He should be so lucky! You really think Harper won't try to subject Khadr to a trial if he's repatriated to Canada?
Anyway, we're getting way ahead of ourselves here. I don't see Khadr being allowed to come home to Canada any time soon, if ever.
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Anyway, we're getting way ahead of ourselves here. I don't see Khadr being allowed to come home to Canada any time soon, if ever.
Khadr is right where Harper thinks he should be. Harper would never betray the Liberal wing of the business party by bringing Khadr home and apologizing to his family. It would look bad for the phony opposition Harper clones as well as the Harpers. Must support the phony war at all costs
A study released last week by the Center for the Study of Human Rights in the Americas concluded the US has held at least a dozen juveniles at Guantanamo, including a Saudi who committed suicide in 2006.
“The information I got was from their own sources, so they didn’t have to look beyond their own sources to figure this out,” said Almerindo Ojeda, director of the center at the University of California, Davis. Rights groups say it is important for the US military to know the real age of those it detains because juveniles are entitled to special protection under international laws recognized by the United States.
Eight of the 12 juvenile detainees identified by the human rights centre have been released, according to the study. Two of the remaining detainees are scheduled to face war-crimes trials in January.
- Source
[edited to fix dead link 2011]
20 Reasons to Shut Down the Guantánamo Trials
(Omar Khadr is #4)
'Deradicalization' part of proposed Omar Khadr rehab
According to the proposed repatriation and rehabilitation program filed at the military commission where Khadr is being tried, the young Toronto-born man would spend years undergoing psychological treatment, formal education and a special deradicalization program
And anything less would be admital that the phony war on terror is real.
Anthony Doob, a University of Toronto criminologist, says the order may include mental health treatment, restrictions on associating with certain people and instructions to obtain a certain kind of education as part of the process of re-integrating the person in Canadian society.
An order would impose incarceration on someone who violated the strict conditions, said Doob. "It is a pretty powerful set of controls that can be put on him," said Doob.
Once Khadr was back in the country, the proposed rehabilitation program would begin, starting with six to 12 months in a secure residential facility for an evaluation of his mental state, followed by another six to 18 months in a minimum-security facility for treatment.
Dr. Howard Barbaree has offered up his institution, Toronto's Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, to conduct the psychological assessment and admit Khadr for treatment, in what may be a first for the clinic.
Bring on the psychiatric re-education camps!
And of course, Amnesty International Canada, the Canadian Bar Association, Michael Byers, the aptly-named Dr. Barbaree, and all the other faux-human-rights advocates will be right on board with that plan.
Not to mention the babblers who have "no problem" with bringing Khadr home to "justice".
With leadership like this from the Canadian "left" and human rights establishment, it's no wonder Canadians are so brainwashed that they support the continuing kangaroo court process against Khadr:
The CBC news item was interesting. His U.S. military attorney Bill Kuebler and psychic evaluators say Khadr has no interest in jihad or "terrorism" today, and that he just wants to come home and live a normal life. It's the feds in Ottawa who don't trust Khadr to be released into the general Canadian population and insisting that he could be a threat to public safety. No kidding, especially when they suggest he was more than likely tortured, as if there is any doubt. They made sure to interview his mother and sister in Canada, and who were wearing black religious garb, faces covered, and insisting on camera that Omar had done nothing wrong. Well, that's not going to go over so good with the 37% of pro-war Canadians and the Harpers who have an interest in legitimizing the phony war.
Viva La Revolución
What has that picture got to do with anything related to this?
___________________________________________________________ "watching the tide roll away"
Whoosh!
What has that picture got to do with anything related to this?
I think M is referring to the extensive psychological counselling planned for Khadr if and when he is sent home to Canada. His lawyers and Canadian officials, I'm not sure who they are, have said Khadr would probably be placed somewhere in a minimum? security facility and on probation for a number of years. Either way I'm sure he is one screwed up individual by now after six years at Gitmo. No, he'll not be right as rain for a long time. I hope he hires some real sharks for lawyers
Even the Yemeni government has a more enlightened attitude towards justice than the Harpocons:
- source
But Khalid Sheik Mohammed is the mastermind behind 9-11, we can be sure of that much at the very least. We know it as matter of fact! He even confessed to it. After five years at Gitmo, he broke down and confessed everything. EVERY thing. The evidence is rock solid. Air tight. It goes without saying. Get your phony war on.
During his campaign, Obama described Guantanamo as a "sad chapter in American history" and has said generally that the U.S. legal system is equipped to handle the detainees. But he has offered few details on what he planned to do once the facility is closed.
Under plans being put together in Obama's camp, some detainees would be released and many others would be prosecuted in U.S. criminal courts.
A third group of detainees — the ones whose cases are most entangled in highly classified information — might have to go before a new court designed especially to handle sensitive national security cases, according to advisers and Democrats involved in the talks. Advisers participating directly in the planning spoke on condition of anonymity because the plans aren't final. - AP
So Obomba wants to create a new "terrorism court" to replace the military commissions. The only difference between his plan and what Bush wants to do is that the kangaroo kourt trials will be held on US soil.
This is what passes for a big improvement in US political circles - or as the article goes on to call it, a "sharp deviation" from Bush's script.
Don't count on Khadr's being released before his January 26 trial date.
People like Khadr are not your friends. These Muslims hate gays, females and even animals. They are the opposite of progressive.
Don't you understand or is it always "U.S. bad, enemies good"?
Are you describing Muslims, or U.S. hawks and their lap poodles in Ottawa waging phony war?
You can say that again. Crazy George II is another Republican Party war criminal, and Liberal Democrats are already covering up those crimes.
Whatever the United semi-Socialist States of America says goes: our colonial administrators
Even though U.S. president-elect Barack Obama has said he will close down the military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said it's unlikely he would lobby to have Canadian detainee Omar Khadr repatriated.
Addressing reporters at a summit of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation group in Peru on Sunday, Harper said Khadr's fate rests with U.S. prosecutors.
"The reason, as I understand it, for [Obama's] position on the closing of the prison is that most of the prisoners there are not charged with anything, and they are not subject to any legal process, and that is the controversy," Harper said in Lima.
"The case of Omar Khadr, as we all know, is not that. It is very different. He is charged … with very serious offences. He is subject to a legal process."
Snivelling 22 percent half-wits anyway. God help us.
Today in the Commons:
"[Harper has] been very firm in ignoring this issue, but the time for ignoring is over and the clock has run out for Mr. Harper," said NDP MP Paul Dewar. "We hope that the clock hasn't run out for Mr. Khadr."
Kudos to Paul Dewar, however:
"Both the Supreme Court of Canada and the U.S. Supreme Court, with the benefit of a full factual record, have found that the military commission proceedings to which Mr. Khadr has been subjected violate U.S. domestic law and Canada's international human-rights obligations," he said.
"Rather than engaging in this process, Canada should seek to arrive at an alternative resolution of Mr. Khadr's case, which relies on settled and secure legal mechanisms."
I wonder what that last sentence means?
The Liberal Party has officially gone on record as calling for Khadr to face a trial in Canada:
Would a new Liberal PM ask Barack Obomba to release Omar Khadr?
Would the Liberals insist on subjecting Khadr to further legal prosecution or psychological "re-education" if he is repatriated before conviction in Guantanamo? Or perhaps slap a "security certificate" on him and detain him indefinitely?
Would the NDP caucus members who aren't in the cabinet be permitted (or even inclined) to criticize the coalition government's policy on Khadr? Or will Khadr become collateral damage in the NDP's rush to grab a small piece of quasi-power?
I think the CBC news diddy said his lawyers are already drafting up some plan for Khadr to be interred in a minimum security facility and placed on probation with lots of counselling.
Khadr has been tortured for six years in an American gulag. He's probably a basket case right now. As far as I can tell, no one has mentioned anything about releasing Khadr unconditionally to live with his mother much less release him into the general Canadian population, which I dont think would be a great idea anyway regardless. It's not a tendency toward terrorism that I would be concerned about - it's what he's been through at Gitmo. If he wasnt dangerous before, he could be now.
I think the CBC news diddy said his lawyers are already drafting up some plan for Khadr to be interred in a minimum security facility and placed on probation with lots of counselling.
And here I was worried that they wanted to intern him. Now you say they want him interred??
If he needs medical or psychological treatment, it should be provided to him free of charge, but on an entirely consensual basis.
You're saying he should not be allowed to live with his mother?
As far as I can tell, nobody said Maher Arar should be institutionalized against his will or kept from his family because of the trauma he had suffered. Why is Khadr's freedom up for bargaining away?
There are lots of dangerous people living among us. Should they be locked up as well?
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Yes, "interned." I can't imagine what kind of counselling he will receive. The CBC news bit mentioned that a Canadian Imam would be assigned to Khadr in order to try to clear up any misconceptions he might have concerning militant Islam and the non militant kind. The US-CIA, Saudis, and Pakistani ISI know all about militant Islam, because they're responsible for aiding and abetting the spread of militant Islam since the 1980's war on secular socialism and basic women's rights in Central Asia began.
I imagine there will be psychologists wanting to get inside his head for a time as well. If Khadr does go bezerk at any time while back in Canada, it would be a trajedy. But might Khadr be able to claim temporary insanity considering he was tortured for six crucial years of his adolescence, if something like that was to occur? I imagine people will be held responsible other than Khadr. I think Khadr will end up suing the taxpayers for a lot of money.
Arar is also a mature male adult who may have been better able to cope with the torture over a shorter period of time. I don't know. What I do know is, no country in the world knows more about torture than the U.S. does. MK Ultra was extensive and involved mind control experiments conducted in countries from the U.S. to Canada to West Germany. There were several US scientists involved in that and various other sub programs of MK Ultra who were murdered for what they knew, and-or, for refusing to continue with conducting the experiments for personal and ethical reasons. I think our boy from Toronto is going to be effed up for quite some time. And I really don't think he needs to live with his mother anymore. Both his mother and sister hold extremist views. But then again, so do some of us. But that should Khadr's his decision as well.
Sorry, that counselling buillshit is still bullshit. There is no evidence that Khadr has done anything untoward to anybody, except be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I was sickened when it came up for a number of reasons, for one thing the idea that there is an officially approved version of Islam that is ok, seems to me to be an infringement upon the concept of seperation of Church and State.
Your a fucking freak. Sorry people have to do things to be incarcerated. Its a simple thing called "human rights".
I'm just regurgitating what I heard during a news broadcast. I don't agree with their views. Apparently his US military lawyer doesnt believe he's a terrorist threat either. But I also think he's fucked up right now psychologically. He wouldn't be human if he isnt. MK Ultra is said to have been as big or bigger than the Manhattan Project. A few former Nazis taught them certain things and even had hands in authoring torture manuals used by School of the Americas whackos in training Latin American death squad leaders and mercenaries for hire.
Khadr couldn't possibly have thrown the grenade that allegedly killed SFC Speer.
He was found buried under rubble from a collapsed roof before he was shot in the back by US troops.
His trial starts in two weeks' time.
Agents of the American inquisition have abducted people from a wide range of countries, from Afghanistan and Britain to Haiti and Canada. It's part of the phony war on terror and propping up the illusion of an enemy. Khadr was one of those used to project the illusion.
When the Soviets ceded the cold war, they stabbed the military-industrial complex in the back. Upside-down socialists are now reduced to fending off a new formidable enemy created by their own shadow government planning department - an enemy without so much as a physical address. It's sad really.
The Canadian government might well NOT try Khadr, but place him under virtual house arrest --limited human contact, no access to internet, travel restrictions, electronic monitoring-- which seems to be the current way of dealing with embarrassing cases involving Islamic Canadian citizens suspected of close connections to potential enemies of the state.
The Canadian government might well NOT try Khadr, but place him under virtual house arrest --limited human contact, no access to internet, travel restrictions, electronic monitoring-- which seems to be the current way of dealing with embarrassing cases involving Islamic Canadian citizens suspected of close connections to potential enemies of the state.
Our stooges in Ottawa didnt object when Muslims from as far away as Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Algeria, Turkey, and even Brooklyn, NY joined the CIA's Islamic Gladio operations in 1980s Afghanistan. Why should they object to it happening now? Did they think it wouldnt happen?
Dallaire urges Obama to stop Khadr trial
Proof positive that Canada's senators are not as useless as tits on nuns afterall.
The move comes less than a week before Khadr's final hearings at the U.S. naval base in Cuba, and puts his trial's scheduled start date in doubt.
"As of today, there is no trial date in the military commission case of Omar Khadr," navy Lt.-Cmdr. Bill Kuebler, the Pentagon-appointed lawyer for the Canadian-born terror suspect, said in a media release.
The release claimed that prosecutors and judges "are expected to steamroll ahead and try to quickly re-establish the trial schedule" when Khadr appears before the commission Monday....
The release speculates the main aim of the "withdrawal and re-referral" move is to lock in prosecutions of so-called "high value" detainees ahead of the inauguration of president-elect Barack Obama....
Critics of the commission system, created by President George W. Bush in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, were quick to react.
"Today's announcement is truly unbelievable. Just when it seems the Bush administration can't sink any lower, it finds a way to outdo itself," said Anthony D. Romero, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union.
"A last-minute do-over of the arraignment would be a clear attempt to get coerced guilty pleas from the accused in order to tie the new president's hands and make it more difficult to shut down these sham commissions and to ensure that the evidence of torture never gets out.
"This is nothing but a desperate attempt to salvage the unsalvageable and cover up a reprehensible legacy of torture and abuse."
Canwest
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Mr. Khadr is a Canadian citizen. Would he be returned to Canada? And if so, what on earth do we do with him?
Don't get me wrong.
Mr. Khadr is enduring a terrible and unjust circumstance as a child solider detained without rights and in inhumane conditions.
But a 22 year old former Taliban child solider fresh out of 8 years in Guantanamo Bay after avoiding charges of murdering an American with a grenade does not sound like my idea of a great neighbour.
Would he need to undergo some type of psychiatric review? Surveillance to ensure he isn't consorting with terrorists again? Maybe an ankle bracelet like Paris Hilton had to wear?
The Liberal foreign affairs critic is saying Mr. Khadr could face trial upon his return to Canada. But that leaves Canada trying a child solider for a crime committed in another country against a citizen of a third country. Try preserving the chain of evidence on that one.
The only solution seems to be stringent conditions on Mr. Khadr's return to Canada, including surveillance, restrictions on mobility and possible detention, while the potential for a trial is worked out. If the government does not pursue charges, either for want of evidence or unwillingness to try a child solider, some of those conditions would have to remain.
Here's an idea: Let's put an ankle bracelet on Andrew Steele so we can keep an eye on him, and see how fast his Amnesty International buddies come to his aid. Or maybe we should detain him while we consider the "potential" for putting him on trial on unspecified charges.
[edited to correct expired link 2011]
So Angus Reid does a poll to find out what Canadians think should happen to Omar Khadr.
What are the only two choices that respondents could select from?
1. Demanding Khadr's repatriation to face due process under Canadian Law
OR
2. Leaving Khadr to face trial by military commission in Guantanamo Bay
The idea that this child soldier ought not to face trial at all, given the known circumstances of the case, as detailed in this and other threads, apparently never occurred to Angus Reid or the client who commissioned the poll.
This is a classic case of using rigged polls to achieve a predetermined result.
Source
Door number one, Monty. The inquisitors have to save face in order to project a larger facade of a legit global war on terror. Khadr is a patriot in the eyes of Afghans. For the fascist invaders, Khadr represented terror to the imperialist occupiers. For some large minority of Canadians, Khadr is a danger to society and the face of terror. And after six years of Gitmo, I would have to agree that Khadr is probably not your normal young man. And so goes the phony war. Gonna leave you, woman, Gonna leave you, woman
I am very disappointed and annoyed with the behaviors of the successive governments of Canada since the detention of Khadr. The US military has given conflicting stories of how they captured Khadr and that alone is enough to prove him not guilty. He was detained as a kid who was in a wrong place at the wrong time, and the US military is trying to build a story around him to justify any future involving of under aged Muslim youths. It's totally disgusting and it's more disgusting that the government of Canada has just handed his rights with a blank check regarding his future to the US military's unethical "war on terror".
Where he will go from the controversial military prison, however, is still the subject of much debate....
But while the incoming president has repeatedly made clear his disdain for the legal system under which Mr. Khadr was scheduled to be tried, it is unlikely that Mr. Obama will simply halt all Guantanamo proceedings without offering any substitute....
If Mr. Khadr's case is judged unworthy of completion, it is almost certain that the United States will attempt to send the 22-year-old back to Canada....
Prof. Forcese says it would be inconceivable for a Canadian court to try Mr. Khadr if the United States had already decided such a case could not go ahead.
But Ottawa could still exert some legal effort to limit Mr. Khadr's liberties. The government could ask a judge to issue a peace bond, which would impose limits on Mr. Khadr.
Don't hold your breath
[edited to fix link 2011]
The two sides sought clarification because judges in three other military tribunals at the U.S. naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have questioned the government's definition of when war law is breached by acts of murder and attempted murder.
Murder and attempted murder as war crimes are the leading charges Khadr faces, and nixing them would derail the central part of the U.S. government's case against him just ahead of his trial's scheduled Jan 26 start date.
Significantly, Army Col. Patrick Parrish will now not have to rule on the controversial matter until after Barack Obama takes over as U.S. president....
"We will discuss, and I will determine all of the appropriate instructions after the commission has had the benefit of hearing all of the evidence," Parrish says...
"There's no legal reason at all for the judge not to confirm that the murder charge is invalid," said Lt.-Cmdr. Bill Kuebler, Khadr's Pentagon-appointed defence lawyer.
"The effect of not ruling is to let the trial go forward without anybody really knowing what the charges are; the prosecutors have been quite clear that they don't have a murder case if Parrish agrees with the other three judges that have addressed the issue."...
Khadr's defence team has always argued against the validity of the war-crimes charges, arguing murder is a war crime only when the victim is either a civilian or a prisoner of war, or when prohibited weapons have been used.
[The above Canwest article no longer appears anywhere else on the internet - M.S. 2011]
In an interview with Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward, Susan Crawford said that prisoner Mohammed al-Qahtani had been so systematically abused through isolation, sleep deprivation, forced nudity and exposure to cold that he was in a "life-threatening condition."
"We tortured Qahtani," she told Woodward. "His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that's why I did not refer the case" for prosecution.
A 61-year-old former Army counsel and former Pentagon inspector general, Crawford served from 1991 to 2006 as a judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces. In February 2007, Defense Secretary Robert Gates named her the convening authority of the military commissions. In May 2008 she dismissed war crimes charges against Qahtani, without giving her reasons publicly.
While saying that she did not know any specifics of the treatment of the five other Guantanamo prisoners accused of 9/11 offenses, Crawford said, "I assume torture," noting that Bush administration officials have admitted that several of the prisoners, including alleged 9/11 organizer Khalid Sheik Mohammed, had been waterboarded.
Crawford made clear that the abuse of prisoners was not the result of lower-ranking interrogators being overzealous, but the consequence of policies set at the top. The techniques used against Qahtani were approved by then-Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. "A lot of this happened on his watch," she said.
from M. Spector's linked to World Socialist article above:
While saying that she did not know any specifics of the treatment of the five other Guantanamo prisoners accused of 9/11 offenses, Crawford said, "I assume torture," noting that Bush administration officials have admitted that several of the prisoners, including alleged 9/11 organizer Khalid Sheik Mohammed, had been waterboarded.
And they've done more than waterboarding, we can be sure. Not many investigative news journalists allowed around Gitmo. After five years in the torture gulag, they prolly could have extracted the Kennedy assassination and more from KSM. KSM and a few more alleged "al Qa'eda" represents all of the American inquisition's case for phony war on terror.
What about Allah and martyrdom? Or does that only come after years and years' worth of US army mind control specialists working on him?
The U.S. vs Omar Khadr
This documentary, which can be seen online at the above link, will also be rebroadcast next Monday, January 19 at 10 p.m. EST/PST on CBC Newsworld. It was first aired last October.
I thought all our stooges in Ottawa had to do was ask for Khadr's release and the Americanos would grant our wish ? What's happy now?
I guess we're never going to find out for sure, since Harper is never going to ask Obomba to do that.
I think his lawyers should initiate a sue job now. I mean why wait? And they should be naming some high ranking officials dating back to when a teenaged Khadr was merrily handed over to the Americanos for imprisonment at Gitmo, and then tortured for several years.
In an impassioned speech Thursday night to a crowd of about 100 at Brock University in St. Catharines, Dennis Edney made what he described as a plea from one father to another, directed squarely at Prime Minister Stephen Harper.
"How would he like to have his children abused like Omar Khadr?" Mr. Edney asked the crowd, which included members of Mr. Khadr's family....
Talking bluntly to his audience, Mr. Edney described Guantanamo Bay as one of the worst places he has ever been to, and his client as one of the worst-treated.
"In my experience, I've never before represented anyone who has been so badly treated and so abandoned by so many people who should know better," he said, describing how his client's first interrogation took place as he lay in a hospital bed at age 15, recovering from multiple bullet wounds. He told the audience Mr. Khadr was put in stress positions until he urinated on himself, and was then used as a human mop to clean up the urine.
Many audience members could be seen crying as Mr. Edney described some of his Guantanamo Bay experiences. In one instance, he explained to the crowd how some prisoners at the Naval base tried to kill themselves, even as their hands and feet were shackled.
"You commit suicide by chewing on your wrists," he said.
Globe and Mail
Defence lawyers for Omar Khadr focused Monday on what prosecutors called a "mistake" over the recent withdrawal and re-laying of charges against the Canadian-born terror suspect, saying it was grounds for starting again almost from scratch.
At a hearing in Guantanamo Bay on the last full day of the Bush administration, Lt.-Cmdr. Bill Kuebler, Khadr's Pentagon-appointed attorney, called on the judge to "terminate these proceedings."
It emerged last week that Susan Crawford, the Pentagon official overseeing charges under the military commission tribunal system at the U.S. navy base in Cuba, had in December withdrawn charges against all indicted Guantanamo detainees, then later "re-referred" them.
Crawford's office said she aimed simply to administratively update the names of the military commissioners - or jurors - who would sit on the trials, but defence attorneys, noting that could have been done with a simple amendment, asked whether a more sinister motive was in play.
Some suggested Crawford, a Bush administration appointee, had been attempting to tie the hands of Barack Obama, the incoming president, who is expected following his inauguration Tuesday to begin the process of closing the detainee camps.
The underlying aim, the defence attorneys suggested, was to clear the slate so that five accused co-conspirators of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks could plead guilty at their hearing Monday - as they have indicated they seek to do in order to force the United States to execute them.
According to some, this would enable the Bush administration to claim an 11th-hour victory in the controversial court system, which members of Obama's incoming administration have said needs to be dramatically revised or ended because it does not meet international standards of fairness.
At the Khadr hearing, marine Maj. Jeff Groharing said the "intent" of Crawford's office had been to review the commissioner lists.
"People make mistakes," he said.
Kuebler argued that regardless of intent, the "consequences" involved a full withdrawal of charges against Khadr.
UPDATE:
Yes, KSM the alleged mastermind "confessed" after five years of denying anything to do with 9-11. KSM himself has described the US military tribunal at Guantanamo a total farce.
James Petras said in August:
The FT’s principle source of information, an anonymous informant “familiar with the CIA interrogation program” states categorically two crucial facts:
(1) How little the CIA had known about him before his arrest (my emphasis) and
(2) that Khaled held out longer than the others.
In other words, the CIA’s only real evidence was extracted by torture (the CIA admitted to ‘water boarding’ – an infamous torture technique inducing near death from drowning). The fact that Khaled repeatedly denied the accusations and that he only confessed after 5 years of torture in secret prisons renders the entire prosecution a case study in totalitarian jurisprudence
There still hasnt been a legitimate trial conducted wrt 9-11. Why should Canadians care? Because the basis for a US-led global war on terror is premised on 9-11 - that no country is safe from militant Islam and "al Qa'eda" - which is a US creation. And Canadian troops are in Central Asia and fighting a Crazy-Crazy George the Second-led phony war on terror, a ruse for vicious empire expansion in the long colder war waged for the encirclement and eventual economic and military strangulation of China and Russia ie. global domination and totalitarian global government. It's Orwell's 1984 and really, a war "of" terror on democracy.
Just out of curiosity I used rabble's search engine to look for extant babble threads containing the words "Crazy George". There are 35 at last count.
No worry, M. It's senator Romeo to the rescue. You kept telling us that our senators werent as useless as tits on nuns. And now I guess I'd have to agree a tiny little. It's a great day for democracy everywhere, for sure
Robert Fuller said Khadr made the identification when he interrogated the Canadian-born terror suspect at Bagram in Afghanistan in October 2002.
Canwest
No doubt, under torture at Bagram, Khadr also identified Santa Claus and Bozo the Clown as people he saw at an al-Qaida safe house.
Canadian Press:
It was early the next day when the Americans, having detained Arar in New York, sent him to Syria, where he was tortured.
Who can say al Qa'eda five times fast without mincing syllables?
"What you have here is a 15-year-old kid who basically would say that he shot John F. Kennedy because he believes that's what he needs to say in order to be free from abuse and to have some chance of getting out of U.S. custody," Kuebler told CTV's Canada AM on Tuesday.
"...The kid's smart and he said what they wanted to hear."
According to an affidavit filed last year with the war crimes court, Khadr said Canadian agents also questioned him about Arar when they visited Guantanamo in 2003 and 2004. But he does not say what he told them.
"They showed me pictures and asked who people were. I told them what I knew," Khadr said in the affidavit.
"I tried to co-operate so that they would take me back to Canada," he said. "I told them that I was scared and that I had been tortured."
Kerry Pither, who has written about Arar's case, called Fuller's testimony "inexcusable" and "immoral."
"There's been a deliberate campaign not just by Canadian officials but by American officials as well to smear Maher Arar's reputation in an attempt to justify sending him to be tortured in Syria," Pither told CTV's Canada AM on Tuesday.
In an interview with The Canadian Press, Pither said the swipe comes as Arar's civil case against U.S. authorities is before American courts.
CTV
FBI Special Agent Robert Fuller testified for a second day today at Khadr's pre-trial hearing and said that Khadr placed Arar in Afghanistan during September or October 2001.
The admission followed testimony a day earlier that linked Arar and Khadr, stunning the military courtroom here and drawing scorn in Canada.
Why on earth would the military prosecutors offer this evidence without checking to see if Arar really was in Afghanistan in September/October 2001? It couldn't be that hard to figure out, given the enormous public record that now exists concerning Arar's personal history and movements in the last decade.
ETA:
This could be linked the the lawsuit Arar has against the USA.
Why on earth would the military prosecutors offer this evidence without checking to see if Arar really was in Afghanistan in September/October 2001? It couldn't be that hard to figure out, given the enormous public record that now exists concerning Arar's personal history and movements in the last decade.
It was the October 2001 luncheon meeting that Maher Arar had with (???? - cannot remember the guy's name) in Ottawa that was supposedly the basis for the wrong assumption that Arar had terrorist links.
Fuller, the FBI agent who testified that Khadr told him Arar was in Afghanistan in late 2001, has now admitted that Khadr did not immediately make that identification and that Khadr only said that he though he might have seen him in Afghanistan. Arar is documented as being in the USA in September 2001 and was under RCMP surveillance in Canada in October 2001 so the ID is clearly false and was no doubt extracted from a desperate Khadr who wanted his suffering to end.
There may never be an end to attempts to smear Maher Arar's name, at least not until lawsuit against the US government is resolved. What happened to him was appaling but the fact that he keeps facing questions is unforgiveable. I'm sickened by the right wing nuts around here, the majority of whom were all too willing to jump on the Arar is guilty bandwagon again without checking any of the facts first. That is exactly what created this terrible situation in the first place.
As for Khadr, kudos to Romeo Dallaire for taking up his cause and trying to shame the Canadian and US governments into doing the right thing. Also, the former US military prosecutor who resigned over the way the trials are being rigged and the defendants are being denied their most basic rights. And, also a mention for the US serviceman who was there on the night in question and dared to state that there was no way that Khadr could have thrown the grenade in question, that Khadr was not the only person alive when US troops entered the building (although Khadr was the only one alive by the time the troops left) and that US troops shot and killed the person who actually threw the grenade. Both of these US servicemen deserve praise for standing up to the substantial pressure to go along with the agenda of the higher ups.
Khadr's trial delayed indefinitely
Al Jazeera is reporting that Obama has ordered prosecutors in the Guantanamo military commissions (i.e. khangaroo khourts) to ask the military judges to suspend all proceedings for 120 days. The decision is up to the judges.
It's time for Romeo to get on his ladder and harken Obama
on CBC radio just now Khadr's lawyer said Obama's move indicated the likelihood of Khadr being sent to Canada, so the case would be put 'in Harper's ballpark'
Panel discussion on Don Newman's show today about Khadr.
The Liberal and NDP representatives (Martha Hall Findlay and Megan Leslie) want Khadr brought back to Canada and "dealt with" by our judicial system. They admitted they have absolutely no idea what that means, but expressed pious hopes that our marvellous and humane judicial system would treat Khadr fairly as a juvenile offender.
This of course made it easy for the Tory robot on the panel to ridicule them as having no alternative to the "judicial" process already under way in Guantanamo.
Why are these wishy-washy liberal weasels so afraid of saying the obvious - that the evidence that has come to light to date indicates that Khadr is not only not guilty, but innocent; that he has been denied the right to counsel and due process and subjected to torture and is therefore entitled to have the charges dropped (hell, our courts dismiss serious charges against probably-guilty people because of police misconduct like illegal search and seizure, and unauthorized wiretaps - what happened to Khadr is much more serious); that he has already "done his time"; that he was a child when he was arrested; that throwing a grenade in wartime is not an act of murder; that the military commissions system is a travesty of justice?
While I don't mean to sidestep or downplay what has happened in Gitmo, it seems to me our government is going to be using this as a cover for the criminal acts of our own intelligence services.
"Bad intelligence" .... where have I heard that before?
I think CSIS will use that as thier deffence in the Arar case, and already have. But think about that. An intelligence professional pleading that he fell victim to poor intelligence.
And you know what the worst outrage is?
It's gonna fly.
The Liberal and NDP representatives (Martha Hall Findlay and Megan Leslie) want Khadr brought back to Canada and "dealt with" by our judicial system.
They've got some nerve. And what of young Omar doesnt wanna come home? Everyone has a right to torture at Gitmo. Come on!!
A year? A FUCKING YEAR?
And so the Obomba backsliding continues....
The inquisition needs time to arrange a quiet execution for Oswald, I mean, KSM and the confessed 9-11 masterminds. Tragic.
Maybe it's just his guilty conscience, but Michael Ignatieff has really taken the bit in his teeth on the Khadr file. He's been getting lots of media ink and pixels with his demands for Khadr to be repatriated to Canada.
His latest reported statements don't even call for Khadr to be put on trial here - just that he be "reintegrated into Canadian society."
Meanwhile Jack Layton hasn't said boo, which is just as well, since his position has been that Khadr ought to face the tender mercies of our fair and compassionate criminal justice system.
I do want an official statement that he is not guilty, and in this country that means the courts. It does not, however, necessarily mean a trial, charges can be dealt with in pre trial hearings.
I do want an official statement that he is not guilty, and in this country that means the courts. It does not, however, necessarily mean a trial, charges can be dealt with in pre trial hearings
Khadr is an "unlawful enemy combatant" This new term as of 9-11 helps skirt around bothersome issues wrt Geneva conventions agreed to internationally since WW II.
Khadr was there in his former home country and terrorizing American tourists, or some such. We know Americans can sometimes be obnoxious when on vacation abroad, but they didnt deserve a 15 year-old harassing them like that. I think Gitmo inquisitors have it all down on paper what Omar confessed to in more precise terms than any of us are able to detail here. I think they had him confess attempted murder of the Easter bunny while they were on a hot streak
What exactly was the point of quoting me and tacking on that set of non sequiturs?
What exactly was the point of quoting me and tacking on that set of non sequiturs?
Sorry, but I thought your first post was pretty ridiculous.
So you think there should be no ruling on the accusations? You think that anyone should always be able to refer to him as an accused murderer?
How about a public inquiry, like the Arar commission, which officially cleared Arar of wrongdoing?
Under our justice system, there is a presumption of innocence. We don't hold trials just so we can be sure that someone we don't like is not guilty. We have to have at least reasonable and probable grounds to lay charges and take the case to trial.
Point. I'd go with that.
So you think there should be no ruling on the accusations? You think that anyone should always be able to refer to him as an accused murderer
Who accused him of anything? I'm of the opinion that Ottawa should not encourage illegal kangaroo court proceedings by so much as acknowledging trumped up charges agains Khadr. He was a child soldier at the time not an "illegal enemy combatant" or whatever in the hell that means.
And not only has Khadr's basic rights been violated, they have the "real" 9-11 masterminds there and violated every rule in the book in extracting confessions from them. It's like theyve seen one Dirty Harry movie too many, or more like Hang'em High. Ottawa should distance this country as much as possible from kangaroo justice according to Crazy George and the American inquisition
He was a child soldier at the time not an "illegal enemy combatant" or whatever in the hell that means.
Omar was a child, but not a soldier at all. He was unarmed.
According to an interview with his sister recently, he was working to help set up a school. He was not armed, and not a fighter.
In the same newscast, I think it was Omar's lawyer who revealed forensic information they intended to present indicating that the grenade that killed the US soldier was a US grenade - ie, 'friendly' fire, blamed on Omar.
I don't know if that info was presented in court before it was shut down.
I'm down with a public inquiry, a better forum for making general recommendations for the public and the government than the courts. I'm feeling that Omar may have benefited if the trial went on a bit longer, though, as he is cleared of any wrongdoing by the info I've read/seen.
- He was unarmed, badly wounded, temporarily blinded and covered in rubble when they found him, not capable of throwing a grenade.
- The US soldier was killed by a US grenade
- He was tortured in Guantanamo, and said whatever he had to to make it stop. (told by one of his interrogators, who also said "He was just like any 15 year old kid, he missed his family, his playstation" etc.)
- The rest of the wounded were killed by the US soldiers (but they kept Omar to blame the soldier's death on him? I don't know).
Yes, a public inquiry would be excellent, since that implies investigating the behaviour of all involved, especially our governments, not just accusing Omar again in court.
I would personally like to meet those Canadian slime CSIS(?) agents who went to see him, and instead of trying to determinhe the truth, they fucking harassed and interrogated him some more, and assumed he was lying. Oh would I ever like to meet those goons sometime when I've got my stomping boots on!!!! grrr!
Actually, he was permanently blinded in one eye.
There was also an adult live person found with him - a real "combatant" - who was killed by the US soldiers. He could have thrown the grenade; thus you have the basis for "reasonable doubt", even if you ignore all the other factors.
And even if Khadr had been a 15 year-old child soldier then, Ottawa is supposed to recognize international laws prohibiting their prosecution and detainment. And there are other internationally recognized child rights being violated at the US military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
According to an interview with his sister recently, he was working to help set up a school. He was not armed, and not a fighter.
heh
In the same newscast, I think it was Omar's lawyer who revealed forensic information they intended to present indicating that the grenade that killed the US soldier was a US grenade - ie, 'friendly' fire, blamed on Omar.
Not really proof it was thrown by US, they would need to find a lot number on the grenade to identify if it was issued to US soldiers. US has a bad tendencyof letting their munitions find their way into hands of people who use it against them.
Source
US has a bad tendencyof letting their munitions find their way into hands of people who use it against them.
Im yirtzeh hashem!
Agreed. I think Americans were lied to about 9-11. The 9-11 Commission report itself apparently revealed official malfeasance at the highest levels. American truthers keep trying to register their petition for a second investigation with Change.org but claim their efforts have been censored time and again.
And Khadr was a child at the time and had nothing to do with the mythos of actual 9-11 events. He was a child in his home country when an invading army came calling. And I think Canadian taxpayers will be on the hook for Ottawa's toadying to an American inquisition
Even if Omar Khadr was standing in the open, firing an M-60 at attacking Americans a la Rambo, his treatment would still be a violation of international law and the Geneva conventions. If Khadr had been videotaped pulling the pin out with his teeth and shoving the grenade down that Yank terrorist's pants, he should still be repatriated to Canada with a full apology and compensation from the US and Canadian governments.
In my opinion, he should be given the VC.
But the fact remains that the US has no basis to hold Kadhr, no case, and no legitimacy when it comes to prosecuting "war crimes". The Canadian government has demonstrated that it cannot be trusted to protect its own citizens.
To put it bluntly, on January 19 and 20, everything that is wrong with Guantánamo and the Bush administration's ill-conceived, cruel and inept "War on Terror" was on display in two courtrooms at Guantánamo, where pre-trial hearings were taking place in the cases of Omar Khadr and the alleged 9/11 co-conspirators....
The question of dubious confessions arose when a female agent, identified only as "Interrogator 11," who had interrogated Khadr at Guantánamo, testified that he had admitted throwing the grenade that killed Sgt. Speer. According to the agent, the incident took place after three other men had been killed and Khadr "cowered under a bush as the soldiers moved in," as a CBC News report explained. "He pulled the pin and just chucked it over his shoulder," the agent said. "He had never thrown one before, so he just threw it over his shoulder, like he had seen in the movies."
Although the interrogator claimed that Khadr was "very happy" to speak to her, and that, "when he would come to the room, he was always smiling," there are three major problems with her story.
The first, as has been demonstrated in several hearings in the last 14 months, is that other reports by eyewitnesses are completely at odds with her account....
In March, Kuebler explained that the report of the circumstances that led to Khadr's capture, written by an officer identified only as "Lt. Col. W.," had been altered after the event to implicate Khadr, and at another hearing on December 12 a witness identified only as "Soldier No. 2" produced further evidence indicating that Khadr could not have thrown the grenade. In a motion submitted by Khadr's lawyers, he stated that he "thought he was standing on a 'trap door' because the ground did not seem solid." He then "bent down to move the brush away to see what was beneath him and discovered that he was standing on a person; and that Mr. Khadr appeared to be 'acting dead.'" Lt. Cmdr. Kuebler explained that photographs taken at the scene, which were not shown to observers of the trial proceedings, "show a pile of rubble from the collapsed roof, and then show the debris moved aside to reveal Khadr lying facedown in the dirt," which "make it abundantly clear Omar Khadr could not have thrown the hand grenade that killed 1st Sgt. Speer."
The second reason for doubting the agent's account, as CBC News also reported, is that she was "unable to explain why she destroyed her notes of the interrogation sessions after she had typed them up," which strikes me as deeply suspicious, and the third, which cuts to the heart of the defense team's doubts about whether any confession by Khadr is reliable, concerns the circumstances of his treatment in Guantánamo at the time the statement was made.
Although a date was not given for when Khadr supposedly made his confession, he was subjected to appalling mistreatment both in Bagram, where he was held for three months after his capture, and in Guantánamo, where he was subjected to an array of abusive techniques -- derived from torture techniques taught in US military schools to train US personnel to resist interrogation, and to provide false confessions...
In Khadr's case, these techniques included prolonged isolation in a freezing cold cell, beatings, and being short-shackled in painful positions until he urinated on himself. On one particularly humiliating occasion, he reported that the guards "poured a pine-scented cleaning fluid over him and used him as a 'human mop' to clean up the mess."
Under these circumstances, it is difficult to see how any confession can be trusted. As Lt. Cmdr. Kuebler explained on Monday, Khadr "regularly lied to his interrogators to avoid being abused."...
According to [FBI Special Agent Robert] Fuller, who interrogated Khadr in the US prison at Bagram airbase for two weeks in October 2002, when Khadr was shown a photograph of Maher Arar, a Canadian engineer of Syrian origin, who was seized at New York's JFK airport on September 26, 2002, he identified him by name and said that he recognized him because he had seen him at an al-Qaeda "safe house" in Kabul, Afghanistan "on several occasions," adding that he also "might have seen him" at an al-Qaeda training camp....
[T]he truth only emerged during the cross-examination of Fuller, when it turned out that the FBI agent's notes did not mention Khadr identifying Arar by name, and that they revealed that Khadr only "stated that he looked familiar." Fuller added in his notes that "in time" Khadr "stated he felt he had seen" Arar in Afghanistan, but neglected to mention in his testimony that the period when Khadr "felt" he had seen Arar was in late September and early October 2001, when he was in Canada, under surveillance by the RCMP.
Lt. Cmdr. Kuebler described Fuller's testimony as a "gift" from the government, and there is, I think, no doubting that he was right, but what is particularly chilling about the testimony of both "Interrogator 11" and Robert Fuller is not just how false confessions can so easily be dressed up as the truth, and how a prisoner saying that someone in a photo "looked familiar" can lead to that person's rendition to horrendous torture, but how both of these responses are typical of the supposed evidence that is used to hold numerous other prisoners in Guantánamo, to this day, and that has also, presumably, been used as an excuse to fly other prisoners to torture prisons around the world, either run by the CIA or in third countries prepared to act as proxy torturers.
Andy Worthington
All of the Gitmo detainees should be freed like the little harmless butterflies they are.
And, if they have friends in Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. and if those friends want to live in more hospitable environs, I think T.O. would be the perfect place to welcome them!! I mean, after all, they are just poor, misunderstood, and (most importantly) harmless young gentlemen who would make great neighbors and would be fun guests at the next block party BBQ.
_______________________________________
Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!
Even if Omar Khadr was standing in the open, firing an M-60 at attacking Americans a la Rambo, his treatment would still be a violation of international law and the Geneva conventions. If Khadr had been videotaped pulling the pin out with his teeth and shoving the grenade down that Yank terrorist's pants, he should still be repatriated to Canada with a full apology and compensation from the US and Canadian governments.
In my opinion, he should be given the VC.
But the fact remains that the US has no basis to hold Kadhr, no case, and no legitimacy when it comes to prosecuting "war crimes". The Canadian government has demonstrated that it cannot be trusted to protect its own citizens.
More like the VC should be redesigned with a picture of him on the front of it giving the "buddy christ" two thumbs up. Complimentary I pod touch, oh hell I phone andlets pull out all the stops- Reality TV show.
CBC would pick it up I'm sure.
Sven I like your idea about sending the former detainee's to T.O. Wouldn't it be wild if they joined the reserves and deployed BACK to Afghanistan?
And to think that the most dangerous "al Qa'eda" terror suspects at Gitmo USED to be heroes during what was a holy old jihad against communism. tsk tsk
Everybody here is making assumptions about the remaining detainees at Guantanamo that are completely unfounded. In actual fact, hardly any of them were dangerous al-Qaida members, or a-Q members at all. 20% of the remaining detainess currently being held are admitted by the US government to be completely innocent and immediately releaseable to any country that will take them.
The chickenshit USA, of course, refuses to take any of them, but expects the rest of the world to do so.
Everybody here is making assumptions about the remaining detainees at Guantanamo that are completely unfounded. In actual fact, hardly any of them were dangerous al-Qaida members, or a-Q members at all. 20% of the remaining detainess currently being held are admitted by the US government to be completely innocent and immediately releaseable to any country that will take them.
The chickenshit USA, of course, refuses to take any of them, but expects the rest of the world to do so.
Hey, if they're not dangerous, then T.O. should open its arms to them with a warm welcome.
Or is T.O. "chickenshit", too?
_______________________________________
Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!
Everybody here is making assumptions about the remaining detainees at Guantanamo that are completely unfounded. In actual fact, hardly any of them were dangerous al-Qaida members, or a-Q members at all. 20% of the remaining detainess currently being held are admitted by the US government to be completely innocent and immediately releaseable to any country that will take them.
The chickenshit USA, of course, refuses to take any of them, but expects the rest of the world to do so.
WHy can't they go back to their home countries?
Everybody here is making assumptions about the remaining detainees at Guantanamo that are completely unfounded. In actual fact, hardly any of them were dangerous al-Qaida members, or a-Q members at all.
And how dangerous is Khalid Sheihk Mohammed? He's so dangerous that some of the evidence against him had to be extracted by torture, because established legal interrogation methods would not have worked on this dangerous 9-11 mastermind. And just who is Khalid Sheihk Mohammed?
From 1987 to 1991, KSM worked in Afghanistan for the warlord most favoured by the CIA
And after five years holding out under torture, KSM confessed to everything, the whole 9-11 plot from "A to Z"
- he confessed responsibility for Bali bombings in Indonesia 2002
- KSM confessed to the 1993 bombing of WTC
- KSM confessed to planning a series of post-9/11 terror attacks in several US cities and London
- and while he was spilling the beans, KSM confessed to planning the assassination of several former presidents, including Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, as well as Pope John Paul II
- KSM confessed to beheading Daniel Pearl
- KSM even confessed to planning to attack a bank founded after his arrest
KSM is public enemy numero uno and the centre of the 9-11 narrative.
KSM is the centre piece trophy(while Khadr is an adjunct bogeyman/child) of the Pentagon's contrived case for a phony war on terror, and somewhat reminiscent of the trumped up case for WMD in Iraq as a pretext for saturation bombing and subsequent writing of Iraq's new national energy policy by transnational energy company CEO's based in Texas
Whether KSM's right to a speedy Kangaroo court decision was violated or not, the Pentagon pressed on with the phony war on terror regardless. And our stooges in Ottawa completely and unconditionally acquiesced to Loco George and the American inquisition's shady agenda in Afghanistan
Hey, if they're not dangerous, then T.O. should open its arms to them with a warm welcome.
If it had been Canada that snatched them off the streets of Tripoli, or Hamburg, or Peshawar, or Rabat, sent them to an offshore dungeon to be tortured and held incommunicado for seven years, and then released without charges, then I'd agree with you. Our shit, our cleanup.
But we all know whose shit it is.
While you're at it, Sven, why not send us all the others who make your white middle class people uncomfortable? Like some of those Muslims who make everyone nervous when they get on airplanes, or those Mexicans who take all the good jobs, or that Asian guy who runs the Kwik-e Mart? Send us Michael Jackson. Send us Carrot-Top.
Maybe you could send us some of the terrorists you already have living free among you, like Luis Posada Carriles, Henry Kissinger, George W. Bush, or Dick Cheney.
Send us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses. Send us the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. We'll put them all in Toronto. Anything to help out a good neighbour.
Ever think of moving to Israel, Sven? You'd feel right at home there. They really know how to keep out the riff-raff.
Harpo just doesn't get it:
He doesn't get it about Guantanamo, either:
I guess the fact that they were illegally arrested and tortured is further down the list of concerns.
And the fact that the "legal process" in question is a phony military court designed to deny the rights of the accused to a fair trial and get convictions at all costs - that probably isn't even on Stevie's radar.
Excerpt from Enemy Combatant: My imprisonment at Guantanamo, Bagram, and Kandahar, by Moazzem Begg (pp. 176-8):
The boy's name was Omar. He was a fifteen-year-old Canadian, and I spent a few weeks in cell two with him. The medics came to see him every day to give him eye drops and check on his wounds. He had been stitched up and I could see the extent of the huge wound across his chest. Of all the detainees I met, my heart bled for him more than any other, because he was not only so young, but also he was one of the softest characters I have ever met. I just could not see him being the type of malicious kid running around with grenades to throw at unsuspecting American soldiers that Warnick claimed he was.
Omar told me an entirely different story. He said he had lived with his family in Afghanistan for many years. When evacuations began he was left behind, with some others, and ended up in the house of an old man, Baba, also in custody. Americans raided the house with helicopters and killed everybody in it, apart from Omar, and Baba, who was shot in the leg. A Special Forces unit came in for a clean-up operation, shooting at the bodies on the ground. Omar was on the ground too, but terribly wounded. One US soldier died, and his comrades blasted Omar with a shotgun. Then Omar was brought to the Army hospital in Bagram, where the MPs, with typical US military tackiness, gave him the epithet "Buckshot Bob".
Omar was treated terribly badly in revenge for the death of that soldier. The guards often screamed at him and pushed him around. When the 511th left, the new guards, as always, came in pretty gung-ho, convinced that we all deserved to be there. They often took Omar out of his cell and made him work like a horse. They made him carry barrels of water, fill the water bottles up, carry boxes of food. They called him a murderer....
Later on in Bagram there were at least some Americans who recognized what Omar was really like, and that he was a minor who should have had better treatment. I told one of the interrogators that the new group of guards was treating him really badly, and he eventually spoke to the sergeant of the guard.
As far as I know, the above excerpt appears on the web here for the first time.
Harper government anti-Muslim, letter charges
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/581618
Signed by Muslim and non-Muslim lawyers, academics, and public policy commentators, the letter says Harper's silence and inaction on Khadr's case is much different than his approach to other cases, and suggests it is motivated by a lack of regard for Muslim Canadians.
"Silence is no longer an option. We believe that your inaction with regards to this important case, compared to your active involvement in other cases (such as the repatriation of Brenda Martin from Mexico), has been, rightly or wrongly, interpreted by the Muslim community as indicative that your government considers Canadian Muslims to be second-class citizens."
This thread-chunk is headed for babble cut-out limbo.
Please khontinue HERE.