Kremlingate part 2

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iyraste1313

’ve been saying Russiagate is bullshit from the beginning, and I’ve been called a Trump shill, a Kremlin propagandist, a Nazi and a troll every day for saying so by credulous mass media-consuming dupes who drank the Kool Aid. And I’ve only taken a fraction of the flack more high profile Russiagate skeptics like Glenn Greenwald and Michael Tracey have been getting for expressing doubt in the Gospel According to Maddow. The insane, maniacal McCarthyite feeding frenzy that these people were plunged into by nonstop mass media propaganda drowned out the important voices who tried to argue that public energy was being sucked into Russia hysteria and used to manufacture support for dangerous cold war escalations with a nuclear superpower.

Just think what we could have done with that energy over the last two years. Think how much public support could have been poured into the sweeping progressive reforms called for by the Sanders movement, for example, instead of constant demands for more sanctions and nuclear posturing against Russia. Think how much more attention could have been drawn to Trump’s actual horrific policies like his facilitation of Saudi butchery in Yemen or his regime change agendas in Iran and Venezuela, his support for ecocide and military expansionism and the barbarism of Jair Bolsonaro and Benjamin Netanyahu. Think how much more energy could have gone into beating back the Republicans in the midterms, reclaiming far more House seats and taking the Senate as well, gathering momentum for a presidential candidacy that truly threatens Trump instead of 9,000 primary candidates who will probably be selected by superdelegates after the first ballot when there’s too many of them to establish a clear majority under the new rules.

...Caitlin Johnstone

josh

iyraste1313 wrote:

Possible, but there can be no doubt that the Liberal MSM have taken a serious hit over this...and given the total lack of interest by the US people (1%!), a serious loss of credibility on the so called left!

When the economic system, no longer bailable by the Central Bank, finally crashes into Depression, it will be right wing forces that will lead the movement, with any leftish movement, without any credibility...a serious dilemma for real leftists!

1%?  Like to know where you get that figure.  The rest of your post is just as nonsensical.

NDPP

"The whole thing has been a joke and a fairy tale from the start." - Glenn Greenwald (and vid)

https://twitter.com/democracynow/status/1110169778868621313

Stop believing NYT, WaPo, The Guardian and western msm propaganda campaigns just because they coincide with your own ignorance, stupidity or prejudices. 

josh

Conclusion of the report:  Russia stole Democratic Party files.

bekayne

"Trump didn't collude with Russia because Russia didn't hack the DNC"

AG's summary:

No evidence Trump colluded with Russia's hacking of the DNC (which took place)

"See? We were vindicated!"

So is the report correct? Or is this like a buffet?

voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

"The whole thing has been a joke and a fairy tale from the start." - Glenn Greenwald (and vid)

https://twitter.com/democracynow/status/1110169778868621313

Stop believing NYT, WaPo, The Guardian and western msm propaganda campaigns just because they coincide with your own ignorance, stupidity or prejudices. 

So, how is it that the US Deep State can order the Guardian in England to publish their lies, but they can't get their own man Mueller in Washington to do the same??

iyraste1313

Poll: Americans Don't Care About Russia

The Jimmy Dore Show

Publicado el 29 jul. 2018

The non-stop Russia coverage continues, even though less than 1% of the nation cares.

...Gallup poll, Epoch Times.......

iyraste1313

Perfect Storm! Along with growing threats of global wars on all fronts, growing signs of economic recession and financial collapse forcing the US Fed to capitulation on its attempts to slow the asset bubbles, we can expect this...major domestic political war!

 

Steve Herman✔@W7VOA

There was "unprofessional conduct" and "shady behavior" by @TheJusticeDept and @FBI, says @LindseyGrahamSC, adding they should have gone to candidate @realDonaldTrump to tell him people in his orbit were in contact with Russians

Graham says he's going to get to the bottom of former FBI Director James Comey's behavior in regards to the Clinton email investigation, the Weiner laptop, and the infamous "Tarmac" meeting between Bill Clinton and Obama Attorney General Loretta Lynch, which the South Carolina Republican suggested was 'something more' than just a casual encounter. 

 

POLITICO✔@politico

"What makes no sense to me is that all the abuse by the Department of Justice, in the FBI the unprofessional conduct, the shady behavior — nobody seems think that's much important," Graham said of the "double standard" of alleged pro-Clinton and anti-Trump bias by officials

9:41 AM - Mar 25, 2019

Twitter Ads info and privacy

They are ready to dive back in to scrutinize the Justice Department and FBI's handing of the Trump and Clinton cases.

 

Nicholas Fandos✔@npfandos

 

On Sunday night, Graham posted an ominous reply to Comey, after the former FBI Director posted a photo of a man in a forest with the caption "So many questions," to which Graham replied "Could not agree more. See you soon." 

 

Lindsey Graham✔@LindseyGrahamSC

Could not agree more.

See you soon.

James Comey✔@Comey

So many questions.

NDPP

Wave Goodbye Chumps! (and vid)

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1110045685733310465

 

'Russiagate is Really Finished."

https://twitter.com/MoonofA/status/1109509311569580032

 

"Congratulations to all the 'resistance' Russiagate hustlers and spooks current and former who just massively increased Trump's chances of re-election."

https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1109963334500208646

josh

If Russia didn’t hack the Democrats, as Mueller found in his report and by his indictments, there would have been no need for the investigation.  Any blame for Trump benefiting, in 2016 or 2020, is on them.

NDPP

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/5qe7A58TEms

"Rachel Maddow reacts to collapse of Russiagate."

 

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/7IC8tx9IN0E

"CNN looks humiliated on Russiagate."

JKR

Why not wait until we see Mueller’s report before judging?

josh
iyraste1313

we can expect this...major domestic political war!.........

Did Mueller Know There Was No Trump-Russia Collusion Before The Midterms?

Authored by Andrew McCarthy via FoxNews.com,

josh

Whitewash Bill Barr has some explaining to do.  

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/03/24/mueller-report-barr-226113

josh
NDPP

Russiagate Implodes, Pleasing Trump But Leaving the Left in the Cold

https://blackagendareport.com/russiagate-implodes-pleasing-trump-leaving...

"Robert Mueller has finally put a plug in the noxious fart that has oozed for almost three years from the conjoined bowels of the national security state -- but the stain remains and may yet be lethal to us all..."

 

Russia and the Democrats

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/03/27/russia-and-the-democrats/

"The Democrats' three-year adventure in red-baiting serves to legitimate a financial-military-industrial[-media] complex that apparently intends to end the planet as it makes as many people miserable in the process as is possible. Congratulations assholes."

Mobo2000

Matt Taibbi's latest on Russiagate:

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/russiagate-is-wmd-times-a-million

"Stories have been coming out for some time now hinting Mueller’s final report might leave audiences “disappointed,” as if a President not being a foreign spy could somehow be bad news.

Openly using such language has, all along, been an indictment. Imagine how tone-deaf you’d have to be to not realize it makes you look bad, when news does not match audience expectations you raised. To be unaware of this is mind-boggling, the journalistic equivalent of walking outside without pants.

There will be people protesting: the Mueller report doesn’t prove anything! What about the 37 indictments? The convictions? The Trump tower revelations? The lies! The meeting with Don, Jr.? The financial matters! There’s an ongoing grand jury investigation, and possible sealed indictments, and the House will still investigate, and…

Stop. Just stop. Any journalist who goes there is making it worse."

...

"The biggest thing this affair has uncovered so far is Donald Trump paying off a porn star. That’s a hell of a long way from what this business was supposedly about at the beginning, and shame on any reporter who tries to pretend this isn’t so.

The story hyped from the start was espionage: a secret relationship between the Trump campaign and Russian spooks who’d helped him win the election.

The betrayal narrative was not reported as metaphor. It was not “Trump likes the Russians so much, he might as well be a spy for them.” It was literal spying, treason, and election-fixing – crimes so severe, former NSA employee John Schindler told reporters, Trump “will die in jail.”

In the early months of this scandal, the New York Times said Trump’s campaign had “repeated contacts” with Russian intelligence; the Wall Street Journal told us our spy agencies were withholding intelligence from the new President out of fear he was compromised; news leaked out our spy chiefs had even told other countries like Israel not to share their intel with us, because the Russians might have “leverages of pressure” on Trump.

CNN told us Trump officials had been in “constant contact” with “Russians known to U.S. intelligence,” and the former director of the CIA, who’d helped kick-start the investigation that led to Mueller’s probe, said the President was guilty of “high crimes and misdemeanors,” committing acts “nothing short of treasonous.”

Hillary Clinton insisted Russians “could not have known how to weaponize” political ads unless they’d been “guided” by Americans. Asked if she meant Trump, she said, “It’s pretty hard not to.” Harry Reid similarly said he had “no doubt” that the Trump campaign was “in on the deal” to help Russians with the leak.

None of this has been walked back."

 

 

NDPP

The Media and the Mueller Report

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/03/27/pers-m27.html

"Mueller's report, after a sprawling investigation lasting nearly two years, has exposed the entire anti-Russia narrative as a hoax, perpetrated on the American people in pursuit of reactionary ends.

The anti-Russia campaign revived the witch-hunting methods of the McCarthyite red scare. Its aim was threefold: first, to create an atmosphere of hysteria to justify preparations for war against nuclear armed Russia: second to channel the mass popular opposition to Trump in a right-wing, pro-war direction; and third, to create a pretext for internet censorship and other attacks on democratic rights.

The mechanism by which the mainstream media promoted Russiagate was to publish 'news' articles composed of assertions by national security officials and experts, usually anonymous, without any factual substantiation of their claims..."

bekayne

NDPP wrote:

The Media and the Mueller Report

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/03/27/pers-m27.html

"Mueller's report, after a sprawling investigation lasting nearly two years, has exposed the entire anti-Russia narrative as a hoax, perpetrated on the American people in pursuit of reactionary ends.

The anti-Russia campaign revived the witch-hunting methods of the McCarthyite red scare. Its aim was threefold: first, to create an atmosphere of hysteria to justify preparations for war against nuclear armed Russia: second to channel the mass popular opposition to Trump in a right-wing, pro-war direction; and third, to create a pretext for internet censorship and other attacks on democratic rights.

The mechanism by which the mainstream media promoted Russiagate was to publish 'news' articles composed of assertions by national security officials and experts, usually anonymous, without any factual substantiation of their claims..."

They've seen the report? That's an unexpected scoop.

Sean in Ottawa

bekayne wrote:

NDPP wrote:

The Media and the Mueller Report

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/03/27/pers-m27.html

"Mueller's report, after a sprawling investigation lasting nearly two years, has exposed the entire anti-Russia narrative as a hoax, perpetrated on the American people in pursuit of reactionary ends.

The anti-Russia campaign revived the witch-hunting methods of the McCarthyite red scare. Its aim was threefold: first, to create an atmosphere of hysteria to justify preparations for war against nuclear armed Russia: second to channel the mass popular opposition to Trump in a right-wing, pro-war direction; and third, to create a pretext for internet censorship and other attacks on democratic rights.

The mechanism by which the mainstream media promoted Russiagate was to publish 'news' articles composed of assertions by national security officials and experts, usually anonymous, without any factual substantiation of their claims..."

They've seen the report? That's an unexpected scoop.

Everybody is interpreting it without seeing it. A fair conclusion is that nobody needs to see it and no minds about its interpretation would be changed by actually seeing it. What we have is a single page from a person hired to whitewash.

Whether in reality the whitewash is hiding dirt is something nobody seems interested in. They are only continuing their narrative from before. Makes you wonder why they spent the money when they could have hired anybody to write the Barr statement and nobody needs to read the real thing.

(ETA: the real thing is apparently 300 pages and I suspect it does not consist of "Trump is innocent" written 990,000 times in Bart Simpson Chalk font.)

NDPP

Mueller Report: 'Russiagate' Hoax Helped Turn Ordinary Russians Against the US

https://on.rt.com/9r2p

"...Russians are not stupid. And their media is not behind a Chinese-style paywall. Instead, Russian news outlets are firmly positioned in the Western information ecosystem and carries unfiltered stories from various international sources, many of them American. As a result, when a famous publication like the Washington Post reports how Netflix is Russian propaganda and alleges Russia targeted the Vermont power grid, people read about it in the local press.

Furthermore, even if most can't speak English well, a great many of them understand it. Thus, they know what's been going on and can see online how prominent [North] Americans have smeared them and their country, during the mass hysteria of the past few years. And viewed from here, the delerium, panic and frenzy is greeted with dismay and incredulity..."

josh

bekayne wrote:

NDPP wrote:

The Media and the Mueller Report

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/03/27/pers-m27.html

"Mueller's report, after a sprawling investigation lasting nearly two years, has exposed the entire anti-Russia narrative as a hoax, perpetrated on the American people in pursuit of reactionary ends.

The anti-Russia campaign revived the witch-hunting methods of the McCarthyite red scare. Its aim was threefold: first, to create an atmosphere of hysteria to justify preparations for war against nuclear armed Russia: second to channel the mass popular opposition to Trump in a right-wing, pro-war direction; and third, to create a pretext for internet censorship and other attacks on democratic rights.

The mechanism by which the mainstream media promoted Russiagate was to publish 'news' articles composed of assertions by national security officials and experts, usually anonymous, without any factual substantiation of their claims..."

They've seen the report? That's an unexpected scoop.

It’s incredible how these folks have managed to get their hands on a report that Congress cannot.  

They’re peddling the same bullshit that Trump is peddling.  Relying on a four page summary by The President Can Do No Wong Barr to hoodwink the public.

josh

Nearly 400 pages.  Who knows how much they’ll voluntarily turn over.  No plans to show it to the White House.  But, of course, plans can change.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/read-ag-barr-sends-congress-new-letter-on-mueller-report

NDPP

RIP Russiagate

https://t.co/eXh8fXZt1n

"The implosion of the collusion theory is a humilitation for everyone who promoted it."

That's you, chumps!

 

How Russiagate Hacked the Brains of America's Elite (and vid)

https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1111680350441431045

"The dangerous political repercussions of neoliberal Democrats [and Canadian 'progressives'] putting all their eggs in the Russiagate basket. It's going to backfire, hard."

 

josh

Let’s see.  Apparently Mueller concluded that Russia hacked the Democrats and stole and disseminated confidential information.  That’s the heart of Kremlingate.  And, apparently, it has been proven.  No comment on that?

contrarianna

'"Kremlingate" is a composite word based on "Watergate" as a meme for coverup of the alleged crime leading all the way up to the president. This of course was the centerpiece of the Clinton paid for foreign intelligence operation in a decision made even before the 2016 election was over to blaim her loss on a Trump/Russian conspiracy.

So rather than "Kremlingate" perhaps a thread such as "Oops, it was really just the evil Russians who hacked our pristine election process" would give more legs to the rear-guard conspiracy theory.

The Mueller report will be released to the public by mid-April

Attorney General William Barr confirmed: “Everyone will soon be able to read it on their own.”

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/29/18287386/mueller-report-public-trump-russi...

Much better if Mueller report gets released unredacted, but that would require a leak.  

I doubt it will refute the main points of Barr's summary,  but that won't much dampen the anti-Russian conspiracy factory, retooling is always a costly business, changing the packaging (or goalposts) is much simpler. 

Yes, let's see the Mueller Report. Perhaps it will have more incriminating facts about Trump that the Barr letter excluded. But it is impossible - given the lack of indictments & what we know Mueller did conclude about collusion - that it will exonerate the media.....

On the last-gasp conspiracy theory of the collusion dead-enders to keep the flock hooked: that William Barr is materially misrepresenting the Mueller report & Mueller and his entire team are just remaining quiet & not objecting about this wholesale distortion of their work...

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald

Barr is indeed a dangerous, dishonest, and dispicable character;  the following deserves a complete read:

William Barr Has a Long History of Abusing Civil Rights and Liberties in the Name of ‘National Security’

https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/william-barr-has-long-histor...

The conspiricists suggestion that lying about the Mueller report main findings is unlikely. He and Mueller were friends in the murderous Bush regimes and both are dutiful promoters of war crimes and deception for the bi-partisan US security state.

But the fact that they both supported, in different government roles, GW Bush, the greatest war criminal (so far) in the 21st Century, is not a problem in the United States of Amnesia and whatever Mueller says must be true:

George W. Bush's favorable rating has pulled a complete 180 Ryan Struyk CNN January 23, 2018

Six in 10 Americans, 61%, say they now have a favorable view of the 43rd President of the United States in the latest CNN poll conducted by SSRS, nearly double the 33% who gave him a favorable mark when he left the White House in January 2009....

Most of Bush's climb back to popularity came from Democrats and independents. His favorability mark among Democrats has soared from only 11% in February 2009 to a majority 54% now....

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/22/politics/george-w-bush-favorable-poll...

NDPP

Stephen Cohen: The Real Costs of Russiagate (and vid)

https://www.thenation.com/article/the-real-costs-of-russiagate/

"Nearly three years of Russiagate's toxic allegations have entered the American political-media elite bloodstream and they will almost certainly reappear again and again in one form or another. This is an exceedingly grave danger..."

JKR

NDPP wrote:

Stephen Cohen: The Real Costs of Russiagate (and vid)

https://www.thenation.com/article/the-real-costs-of-russiagate/

"Nearly three years of Russiagate's toxic allegations have entered the American political-media elite bloodstream and they will almost certainly reappear again and again in one form or another. This is an exceedingly grave danger..."

Maybe Putin should have thought of this before he approved meddling in US elections?

NDPP

It's Time to Reckon With Clinton Democrats Who Pushed Russiagate

https://t.co/GAnPGie00r

josh

It’s time to reckon with the Russian government that broke into the DNC and stole its files.

NDPP

Mueller's Record of Framing Innocent People - Part 1

https://off-guardian.org/2019/03/30/muellers-record-of-framing-innocent-...

"The purpose of the present article is simply to document the type of person that Mueller himself is - to document it from his actual record in various public offices that Mueller has held..."

NDPP

The END of Russiagate

https://youtu.be/VjcELf9T-T4

"Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia..."

contrarianna

NDPP wrote:

The END of Russiagate

Not so, as I argued before.

The fraudulent Russia-gate as a Watergate parallel leading back to the president, in this case Trump as "Putin's puppet", has taken a hit, (a big hit for those who have any residual rationality). 

But it should also be evident that it doesn't matter at all to the anti-Russian conspiracy industry: the security state, the military industry, the elite politicians, the MSM that is still making millions from it and its credulous followers. 

Like any conspiracy theory, the same people on Babble that went on endlessly about Trump as "Putin's puppet", doubling down on every ludicrous MSM claim, simply move on with no acknowledgement--let alone shame--to what they now imagine is firmer ground, --as if their credibility was intact. 

Like the amnesiac in the movie "Memento", the public has zero short term memory, the anti-Russian fearmongers can spit repeatedly in your beer and smile with impunity.

The Republicans are now ecstatic that their criminal-in chief is off the hook for "collusion". It must have been extremely galling to take a backseat to the Democrats in anti-Russian McCarthyism, a psyops which they had always assumed had their natural leadership.

There are plenty of genuine dissenting political progressives that are, and will continue to be, tarred with "Putin's dupes" or "agents" by both sides of the imperial political duopoly. The trigger words: "Russian collusion" won't go away and will continue to make the world a more dangerous place.

The "liberal" media will not give up its core Russiaphobe narrative easily and, as has been the rule in the last few years, will be taunting the unspeakably vile Trump/Bolton government to take additional aggressively criminal international action:

CNN And WaPo Demand That Trump Further Escalate Tensions With Russia

https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2019/04/01/cnn-and-wapo-demand-that-trump-f...

NDPP

Well said.

Jimmy Dore: The US is a MAFIA State!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Skyw2TH29s&feature=youtu.be

and Canada is its vassal. 

josh

Mueller report includes “detailed accounts of Trump campaign contacts with Russia” and depicts a “campaign whose members were manipulated by a sophisticated Russian intelligence operation.”

https://twitter.com/jonswaine/status/1113831499567071232

Sean in Ottawa

josh wrote:

Mueller report includes “detailed accounts of Trump campaign contacts with Russia” and depicts a “campaign whose members were manipulated by a sophisticated Russian intelligence operation.”

https://twitter.com/jonswaine/status/1113831499567071232

Without absolute proof through recordings it can be very difficult to tell the difference between the results of stupidity and intention. Getting that above the very high bar of such an investigation would be difficult.

The test for negligence/intention is different (knew or ought to have known) than the test for provably intent.

The likelihood of proof of intent is difficult when either side being careful can prevent there being a record.

NDPP

Putin Claims to Have Sabotaged Mueller Report

https://blackagendareport.com/putin-claims-have-sabotaged-mueller-report

"Trump could shoot Putin in the middle of Red Square and would still be seen as a Russian asset by true believers in CIA propaganda."

contrarianna

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

josh wrote:

Mueller report includes “detailed accounts of Trump campaign contacts with Russia” and depicts a “campaign whose members were manipulated by a sophisticated Russian intelligence operation.”

https://twitter.com/jonswaine/status/1113831499567071232

Without absolute proof through recordings it can be very difficult to tell the difference between the results of stupidity and intention. Getting that above the very high bar of such an investigation would be difficult.

The test for negligence/intention is different (knew or ought to have known) than the test for provably intent.

The likelihood of proof of intent is difficult when either side being careful can prevent there being a record.

The slavish devotion to, and belief in, US security state agents and their apparaatus by many self-identified progressives is depressing.  

It's a well-documented near universal disgrace that the "independent" MSM media "experts" and pundits on military/foreign/security matters are dominated by figures from the CIA, NSA, FBI, US military and military industry.

Case in point, the above cited claim originating from "NBC News national security reporter"  Ken Dilanian who said: 

“We’re hearing from a separate U.S. official that some members of the Mueller team say that the evidence on collusion, while not establishing a criminal conspiracy, is actually very compelling...."

Dilanian's integrity and independence is summed up here:

L.A. Times Disowns Reporter Outed as a CIA Collaborator     

09/05/2014 10:53 am ET Updated Dec 06, 2017

Recently released emails indicate that prominent national security reporter Ken Dilanian formerly with the Los Angeles Times, currently with the Associated Press (and from 1997-2007 the Philadelphia Inquirer)  shared stories prior to publication with CIA press office seeking their approval, according to a story up on The Intercept. Now, it is not uncommon for national security mto vet facts with government functionaries, but the emails indicate Dilanian went much further than that, not only sharing stories prior to publication (a big no-no in almost every newsroom) but he also entered into discussions about how the CIA could bend public opinion of drone strikes their way.....

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/la-times-disowns-reporter_b_5770388

I don't point this out to claim that the CIA asset Dilanium is necessarily lying.  He is clearly "well-connected" and he was probably told it by persons in high places, but to remind people that such statements do not occur by chance investigation. 

Here's the thing: don't assume that the design of such statements is to hurt Trump (if the criminal-in-chief is charged with anything, it won't happen from the absurd Russiagate narrrative) such statements instead continue to encourage and goad him on (in the spirit of some here) to more pro-Military spending and dangerous anti-Russian actions which have already dwarfed any previous president since the first Cold War. (See link in my  previous post). 

As for the 16 month, $25 Million Mueller investigation's alleged "very high bar of such an investigation", there is no reason to believe GW Bush's head FBI liar on WMD's, Meuller, is motivated by anything but self-interest and US imperial interests.

The Washington corporate class (elite politicians, military industry, MSM, etc)  will be happy with the bi-partisan brinkmanship of continued anti-Russian hysteria generated through indictments and media rumors; that is, pushing anything short of nuclear war...but, hey, all business ventures involve risk.

It should be obvious (but apparently isn't) there is no such thing as a politically independent investigation by one state against another foe state. It is "bi-partisan" but state-centric policy is still ultra-partisan, not independent. Lawfare is the norm.

Trump was originally seen, and may still be seen by some, CIA, NSA, FBI, figures as a loose cannon threatening US hegemony by his inconsistent pre-election lies about withdrawal from "foreign entanglements" and his random conciliatory remarks regarding Russia. He has since proved a major US imperial asset; Trump is US hegemony and anti-Russian policy on steroids, so there is little downside to state policy with lack of indictments there.

But, unlike the lack of "collusion with the Russian government" indictments against Trump or other Americans, the indictments against Russians have been doled out freely by Mueller's hand picked, agent-fed, star chamber, with no fear the claims will be scrutinised in an open US court, let alone some fantasy independent international court.

Mueller indicting GRU figures is a totally safe political action with no possibility of being challenged. Imagine any nation sending its spys and agents to stand trial in a foreign country for real or alleged foreign interference. (In stark contrast, the "rule of law" US government now threatens to kill the International Criminal Court with sanctions if they pursue indictments against any US war criminals.)

There is an exception to this lawfare ploy.  In Mueller's first set of indictments against what was most likely a for profit sleazy clickbait farm from Russia (in which there are many), the Internet Research Agency (aka Concord Management), Meuller was shocked when lawyers for the operation actually showed up and asked for the normal pre-trial legal process of discovery.  Matt Taibbi describes the situation in an recent interview:

The indictments of the Russians, which first of all aren’t proof, they’re just allegations, they very specifically didn’t make a connection between the Internet Research Agency and the Russian government, so that piece of it was not really reported all that well. It quickly became, “The Russians attacked us.”

Well, what does “The Russians” mean? Is it anybody in Russia? Is it necessarily a Russian government operation? Perhaps. Probably. We don’t know for sure. It could be, absolutely, but I don’t think that’s been established. And I think there were some other issues with that story as well. When Mueller prosecuted all those people, one of the really fascinating things that happened with this case is that nobody expected any of them to go to trial, and yet one of the defendants actually showed up in court.

And Mueller was so taken aback by this that he asked for a continuance to the judge and claimed that he wasn’t ready to prosecute, even though he had just filed the indictment, and the judge didn’t allow it. And so that suggested that Mueller never expected to have to actually substantiate all those charges....

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/31/18286902/trump-mueller-report-russia-matt-...

NDPP

Media Alert: Fake News Tsunami - Trump's 'Collusion' and Corbyn As 'Dangerous Hero'

https://twitter.com/medialens/status/1114097594614075392

Sean in Ottawa

contrarianna wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

josh wrote:

Mueller report includes “detailed accounts of Trump campaign contacts with Russia” and depicts a “campaign whose members were manipulated by a sophisticated Russian intelligence operation.”

https://twitter.com/jonswaine/status/1113831499567071232

Without absolute proof through recordings it can be very difficult to tell the difference between the results of stupidity and intention. Getting that above the very high bar of such an investigation would be difficult.

The test for negligence/intention is different (knew or ought to have known) than the test for provably intent.

The likelihood of proof of intent is difficult when either side being careful can prevent there being a record.

The slavish devotion to, and belief in, US security state agents and their apparaatus by many self-identified progressives is depressing.  

It's a well-documented near universal disgrace that the "independent" MSM media "experts" and pundits on military/foreign/security matters are dominated by figures from the CIA, NSA, FBI, US military and military industry.

Case in point, the above cited claim originating from "NBC News national security reporter"  Ken Dilanian who said: 

“We’re hearing from a separate U.S. official that some members of the Mueller team say that the evidence on collusion, while not establishing a criminal conspiracy, is actually very compelling...."

Dilanian's integrity and independence is summed up here:

L.A. Times Disowns Reporter Outed as a CIA Collaborator     

09/05/2014 10:53 am ET Updated Dec 06, 2017

Recently released emails indicate that prominent national security reporter Ken Dilanian formerly with the Los Angeles Times, currently with the Associated Press (and from 1997-2007 the Philadelphia Inquirer)  shared stories prior to publication with CIA press office seeking their approval, according to a story up on The Intercept. Now, it is not uncommon for national security mto vet facts with government functionaries, but the emails indicate Dilanian went much further than that, not only sharing stories prior to publication (a big no-no in almost every newsroom) but he also entered into discussions about how the CIA could bend public opinion of drone strikes their way.....

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/la-times-disowns-reporter_b_5770388

I don't point this out to claim that the CIA asset Dilanium is necessarily lying.  He is clearly "well-connected" and he was probably told it by persons in high places, but to remind people that such statements do not occur by chance investigation. 

Here's the thing: don't assume that the design of such statements is to hurt Trump (if the criminal-in-chief is charged with anything, it won't happen from the absurd Russiagate narrrative) such statements instead continue to encourage and goad him on (in the spirit of some here) to more pro-Military spending and dangerous anti-Russian actions which have already dwarfed any previous president since the first Cold War. (See link in my  previous post). 

As for the 16 month, $25 Million Mueller investigation's alleged "very high bar of such an investigation", there is no reason to believe GW Bush's head FBI liar on WMD's, Meuller, is motivated by anything but self-interest and US imperial interests.

The Washington corporate class (elite politicians, military industry, MSM, etc)  will be happy with the bi-partisan brinkmanship of continued anti-Russian hysteria generated through indictments and media rumors; that is, pushing anything short of nuclear war...but, hey, all business ventures involve risk.

It should be obvious (but apparently isn't) there is no such thing as a politically independent investigation by one state against another foe state. It is "bi-partisan" but state-centric policy is still ultra-partisan, not independent. Lawfare is the norm.

Trump was originally seen, and may still be seen by some, CIA, NSA, FBI, figures as a loose cannon threatening US hegemony by his inconsistent pre-election lies about withdrawal from "foreign entanglements" and his random conciliatory remarks regarding Russia. He has since proved a major US imperial asset; Trump is US hegemony and anti-Russian policy on steroids, so there is little downside to state policy with lack of indictments there.

But, unlike the lack of "collusion with the Russian government" indictments against Trump or other Americans, the indictments against Russians have been doled out freely by Mueller's hand picked, agent-fed, star chamber, with no fear the claims will be scrutinised in an open US court, let alone some fantasy independent international court.

Mueller indicting GRU figures is a totally safe political action with no possibility of being challenged. Imagine any nation sending its spys and agents to stand trial in a foreign country for real or alleged foreign interference. (In stark contrast, the "rule of law" US government now threatens to kill the International Criminal Court with sanctions if they pursue indictments against any US war criminals.)

There is an exception to this lawfare ploy.  In Mueller's first set of indictments against what was most likely a for profit sleazy clickbait farm from Russia (in which there are many), the Internet Research Agency (aka Concord Management), Meuller was shocked when lawyers for the operation actually showed up and asked for the normal pre-trial legal process of discovery.  Matt Taibbi describes the situation in an recent interview:

The indictments of the Russians, which first of all aren’t proof, they’re just allegations, they very specifically didn’t make a connection between the Internet Research Agency and the Russian government, so that piece of it was not really reported all that well. It quickly became, “The Russians attacked us.”

Well, what does “The Russians” mean? Is it anybody in Russia? Is it necessarily a Russian government operation? Perhaps. Probably. We don’t know for sure. It could be, absolutely, but I don’t think that’s been established. And I think there were some other issues with that story as well. When Mueller prosecuted all those people, one of the really fascinating things that happened with this case is that nobody expected any of them to go to trial, and yet one of the defendants actually showed up in court.

And Mueller was so taken aback by this that he asked for a continuance to the judge and claimed that he wasn’t ready to prosecute, even though he had just filed the indictment, and the judge didn’t allow it. And so that suggested that Mueller never expected to have to actually substantiate all those charges....

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/31/18286902/trump-mueller-report-russia-matt-...

Perhaps you might want to get a new TV -- in colour. This binary black and white idea that becuase we reject one side in anything means that we have to accept the bullshit of the other is depressing.

contrarianna

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Perhaps you might want to get a new TV -- in colour. This binary black and white idea that becuase we reject one side in anything means that we have to accept the bullshit of the other is depressing.

Your argument free, fact-free, troll-let is typical of someone who shamelessly saluted every absurd MSM conspiracy utterance, including the obviously ludicrous "Manafort visited Assange 3 times in the Ecuador embassy". 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I am certain that all security personnel will lie if required. This whole affair from top to bottom is riddled with security personnel. So I know for sure that some of them are lying. Frankly I suspect that they are all spinning stories but who really thinks any of us can tell which if any are actually factual.

Sean in Ottawa

contrarianna wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Perhaps you might want to get a new TV -- in colour. This binary black and white idea that becuase we reject one side in anything means that we have to accept the bullshit of the other is depressing.

Your argument free, fact-free, troll-let is typical of someone who shamelessly saluted every absurd MSM conspiracy utterance, including the obviously ludicrous "Manafort visited Assange 3 times in the Ecuador embassy". 

No, my argument is that your bullshit that one side being wrong means the other is right is simplistic. Your smears get as much dirt on you as any target you think you are implicating.

NDPP

Charming to watch the chumps twist themselves into pretzels trying to convince us they didn't swallow. Check these threads. All becomes clear.

Tips For A Post-Mueller Media From Nine Russiagate Skeptics (and vid)

https://fair.org/home/tips-for-a-post-mueller-media-from-nine-russiagate...

"Evidence-based journalists on the mistakes media made and how to get it right moving forward..."

NDPP

Chris Hedges: The Democrats Set the Table For Russiagate

https://youtu.be/VkoH3l7c5cI

"There's a sucker born every minute." - PT Barnum

contrarianna

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

contrarianna wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Perhaps you might want to get a new TV -- in colour. This binary black and white idea that becuase we reject one side in anything means that we have to accept the bullshit of the other is depressing.

Your argument free, fact-free, troll-let is typical of someone who shamelessly saluted every absurd MSM conspiracy utterance, including the obviously ludicrous "Manafort visited Assange 3 times in the Ecuador embassy". 

No, my argument is that your bullshit that one side being wrong means the other is right is simplistic. Your smears get as much dirt on you as any target you think you are implicating.

Er, no, that isn't an "argument".  THAT is a simplistic assertion devoid of  evidence or reasoning.

For my "side", I take responsibility for, and will discuss any particular statements I have made on this topic. You now, apparently, have no  "side" of your own (or memory), and are a God of Nuance.

The history of your pretended high ground  of nuance and rationality  is readily available for all to see.

Sean in Ottawa

contrarianna wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

contrarianna wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Perhaps you might want to get a new TV -- in colour. This binary black and white idea that becuase we reject one side in anything means that we have to accept the bullshit of the other is depressing.

Your argument free, fact-free, troll-let is typical of someone who shamelessly saluted every absurd MSM conspiracy utterance, including the obviously ludicrous "Manafort visited Assange 3 times in the Ecuador embassy". 

No, my argument is that your bullshit that one side being wrong means the other is right is simplistic. Your smears get as much dirt on you as any target you think you are implicating.

Er, no, that isn't an "argument".  THAT is a simplistic assertion devoid of  evidence or reasoning.

For my "side", I take responsibility for, and will discuss any particular statements I have made on this topic. You now, apparently, have no  "side" of your own (or memory), and are a God of Nuance.

The history of your pretended high ground  of nuance and rationality  is readily available for all to see.

I don't have to provide evidence to prove that one being wrong does not make the other right for most people on this board. For you, I don't give a shit if you are too dim to see it or too arrogant to admit it -- either way it is a waste of time for me.

Screw your history lesson -- it is easy to see yours.

NDPP

New Documents Reveal Covert UK Military Influence Smear Machine Meddling in US Politics

https://twitter.com/MintPressNews/status/1115606537957830656

"The Integrity Initiative has spelled out  plans to expand its network across the US, meddling in American politics and recruiting 'a new generation of Russia watchers' behind the false guise of a non-partisan charity..."

'Physician, heal thyself.'

josh

The cover up continues.  Barr says he will only "release" a version of the Mueller report.  Obviously not the unabridged version.

https://www.npr.org/2019/04/09/711376539/barr-mueller-report-out-within-1-week-ig-report-on-russia-inquiry-this-summer

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